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Andy08
30-08-2008, 04:32 PM
Just back from the match.... a much improved performance today despite the scoreline and some real glimmers of hope methinks!!!!

GK - Speroni - 7 - great shot stopping, would have been an 8 but his distribution lets him down... he was comfy rolling the ball out and kicking in the first half, but when Reading closed that down after the break his kicks from hands were hit and miss to say the least!

RB - Butterfield - 7 - a typical, energetic Butts performance, nothing fancy, nothing dramatic...reliable

LB - Hill - 5 - made to look slow and awkward (maybe cos he is?) by Reading's pacy winger, switched to CB in the second half and he and Lawrence were all over the place.

CB - McCarthy - 6 - presume he went off injured? Didnt see him do anything particularly bad.... we looked reasonably comfy at the back in the first half.

RM - Oster - 5 - Cant see what he brings to the party.... Reading fans are delighted to be rid...

CM - Carle - 8 - A great performance... hes here hes there etc etc... and for once, we actually gave him the ball, rather than by passing him... more of please!

CM - Soares - 8 - ran his ickle socks off and being his hometown this meant something to him as shown by his reaction when he scored.

CM - Derry - 7 - enjoyed lots of possession in the centre particularly in the first half.... not sure if he is captain material really, but a very committed performance.

LM - Hills - 5 - anonymous for most of the match.... no pace, no tricks, I havent seen much of him so this may be unfair.... but not on the game today!


F - Andrew - 9 - what a breath of fresh air! ran and ran, held the ball up well, looked up and laid it off, even hit a 40 yard diagonal pass... moved to the left in the second half and more of the same...

Subs
Scannell - 6 - didnt really get into the game
Fletcher - 5 - awful
Lee - 7 - bearing in mind that he must barely know the lads names, he put himself about, can clearly hold the ball up well and looks hungry for action....will watch with interest!


Spare a thought for my 4 sons who are going to get ripped big time over this result as we live in Reading!

We must defend better from set pieces..... lesson no 1.

917L
30-08-2008, 04:36 PM
So youre saying Soares scored?

weh8millwall
30-08-2008, 04:39 PM
He did. Sky Sports vidi printer got it wrong.

No4 Son
30-08-2008, 04:39 PM
you didnt notice Lawrence was playing either!

Andy08
30-08-2008, 04:44 PM
Sorry... forgot Lawrence - 6 - comfy in the first half, pretty awful with Hill in the second..

davematt
30-08-2008, 04:44 PM
Well I couldnt listen as I was flying from LA to San Jose this morning.

Sounds like from little snippets on here that we played some good stuff but were an utter shambles at the back.

Time for a re-shuffle me thinks; Main one being the complete dropping of Lawrence. Get Fonte in to partner McCarthy.

Glad to hear the positives regarding Calvin Andrew :p

Shipp Ahoy!
30-08-2008, 04:49 PM
Why oh why do we persist with 4-3-bloody 3 (or 4-5-1) whatever way you look at it.

Is Moses injured? Can't wait for Fonte to come back and then we might actually have a team really challenging if they are played in the right place.

Still sounds like an improvement, at least we scored twice!

Sambuccy
30-08-2008, 04:50 PM
Defence was SHOCKING from set pieces. All three of Doyles goals were so simple it was unbelievable.

Players that stood out were Carle and Andrew who looked twice the player of Scowcroft on that performance.

I'd be happy to never see Lawrence in a Palace shirt again. Fonte needs to play. Oster also looked poor.

ZOHAR
30-08-2008, 04:53 PM
Palace remain without a win in the league this season after falling 4-2 to Championship favourites Reading in a topsy-turvy clash at the Madjeski Stadium.

After falling behind to James Harper's opener, Palace dragged themselves in front after Nick Carle's penalty and Tom Soares' first of the season.

But a Kevin Doyle treble condemned Palace to their second league defeat of the season as the doom and gloom that surrounds Palace at the moment refuses to fade.

After a high tempo opening without any real goalmouth action, Palace came close to taking a fortunate lead after Calvin Andrew's mishit cross was fumbled by Marcus Hahnemann before rebounding off the top of the cross bar on 17 minutes.

However, just two minutes later Reading took the lead when Harper smashed home from close range after Julian Speroni made a good save from Stephen Hunt's intial effort after Liam Rosenior's low cross.

Palace nearly found themselves two down five minutes later after Hunt's corner was glanced goalwards by Kevin Doyle only for Danny Butterfield to clear the goalbound effort off the line.

And from the resulting corner, again taken by Hunt, Ivar Ingimarsson saw his free back post header tipped over by Speroni as Palace clung on for dear life.

But the away side gradually clawed their way back into the game and were rewarded in the 36th minute when Nick Carle's strike hit Harper on the hand prompting referee Mr Penton to point to the spot.

And the Australian sent Hahnemann the wrong to equalise for Palace.
Paddy McCarthy, who picked up an injury in the closing stages of the first-half, was replaced by new signing Alan Lee, who completed his move to south London yesterday afternoon, at half-time.

But it was Reading who started the brighter and nearly took the lead three minutes after the restart when some great work from Hunt saw him play in Kebe with beautiful backheel, but his cut back missed everyone.

Doyle's spectacular half volley from 25 yards on 52 minutes was tipped over by Speroni as Reading started to turn the screw.

But it was Palace and new boy Lee who came so close to giving the away side a 2-1 lead after John Oster stood up a cross to the back post only for the former Ipswich target man's header to rebound off Chris Armstong and out for a conrer 11 minutes into the second period.

And it was more good work from Lee that saw Palace snatch a 2-1 lead after the striker stood up a ball that sailed over Rosenior's head leaving Tom Soares to control before smashing home from close range in the 64th minute.

But the Royals were back level just five minutes later when Doyle turned in from close range after Palace failed to deal with another dangerous Hunt corner.

And just a minute later, Palace's inability to cope with the Royals' well drilled set pieces led to the home side taking a 3-2 lead after Warnock's men failed to clear yet another corner, this time from Harper, leaving Jem Karacan to smash the ball back across the six yard box and all Doyle had to do was stick a leg out to score from two yards.

Doyle completed his hat-trick in the 89th minute after another Hunt corner caused Palace no end of problems leaving the Republic of Ireland man to nod home three yards after Alex Pearce's knock back topping off another miserable day for Palace

http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/palacelatest/Palace-win-Royals-defeat/article-298030-detail/article.html

Adlerhorst
30-08-2008, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Andy08
Spare a thought for my 4 sons who are going to get ripped big time over this result as we live in Reading! My boss is a reading fan. They have my sympathies! Like them, i have a fair indication of what is coming.

cpfcfan1
30-08-2008, 04:54 PM
Warnock said he was pleased, said the ref was good. Felt we should have won but McCarthy going off threw us off.

Very annoyed with the defence.

Bobsta
30-08-2008, 04:55 PM
i'll leave gooders to do the match ratings and comments. just a special mention to calvin andrew, and nick carle, lee hills was an utter disappointment having never seen him play before, derry was woeful. Palace fans were absolutely amazing today.

Justy C
30-08-2008, 04:56 PM
Radio 5 reporter said our defending from set pieces was dreadful.

Sounds like a better performance though, glad that Soares scored.

aj4england
30-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Fonte should have played , thats 8 goals in two games conceeded - get lawrence on the bench or out .

Clapham Grand
30-08-2008, 05:01 PM
Fonte is injured

Aaroncpfc
30-08-2008, 05:02 PM
I'm optimistic after todays game. The two goals should give us the confidence we need to get a win in two weeks time. Lawrence also gave Warnock a decent reason to pick Fonte ahead of him too.

GK - Speroni - 7 - The first half performance was probably an 8 but he looked rather shakey in the second. I think the defence he had in front of him for the second half played a part in that though.

RB - Butterfield - 6 - Not any worse or any better than he's given us this season.

LB - Hill - 5 - Couldn't cope with Reading today. I'm sure he will raise his game against Swansea.

CB - Lawrence 5 - I'm getting fed up of him personally. When Fonte comes back he should definatly start ahead of Lawrence who seems to be in his last season.

CB - McCarthy - 6 - I thought we really missed Paddy in the second half. If he gets injured we could be missing a brave body with leadership skills big time.

RM - Oster - 6 - He seemed to be unsettled playing against his former club. He definatly looked better against Burnley and Hereford.

CM - Carle - 7 - He was given the ball to his feet more this game and he looked better as a result. Today you could see why Warnock signed him. Hopefully he can keep these kind of performances up.

CM - Soares - 7 - He didn't seem at all unsettled by the transfer rumours and really played his heart out. Hopefully he was doing this because he wanted to impress Warnock and not because he wanted to impress somebody else.

CM - Derry - 7 - Commited was the best word to describe his performance today. He didn't look like leadership material but he definatly played better today than in recent weeks.

LM - Hills - 6 - I don't think being as far up the pitch as he was today suits him. If he had put in a decent performance Andrew deserved better service in the first half.

ST - Andrew - 7 - I'm was really impressed with him. In the first half he did everything that Scowcroft didn't do in the first few games (other than score) and in the second half he worked his socks on the left. Could be a good buy by Warnock.

Subs
Scannell - 6 - Never had the chance to get in to the game
Fletcher - 5 - I think bei on the transfer list has really unsettled him.
Lee - 7 - An encouraging display. Based on what he gave when he came on he should be a good signing.

Chris K
30-08-2008, 05:07 PM
On the radio it sounded like a huge improvement and by all accounts we lost due to shocking defending.

eaglejez
30-08-2008, 05:29 PM
just got back. Shocking shocking defending. Reading were fantastic coming forward - we are unlikely to meet teams that good every match. We are quite a bit behind them. We don't have much pace with that team.

Andrew held the ball up but no pace. Carle was fantastic. (what a waste).

Great turn out by the Palace away fans.:p

ET1
30-08-2008, 05:34 PM
How well did the little Reading midfielder Karacan play?

ThisIsDoM
30-08-2008, 05:44 PM
Defending after Paddy was taken off was abysmal. Noel Hunt (possibly Stephen's brother) could have had a hattrick after he came on if he could shoot properly. Lawrence had a nightmare trying to defend. Looked very slow and was at fault for at least one of them. I thought

Hills, I thought, did quite well. He managed to tackle their right back several times right next to their box. Carle was brilliant first half and his performance led the team. I was also very impressed with Andrew, he looked very impressive up front on his own. Soares also looked like he was trying really hard and deserved his goal.

Lee impressed me, showed some nice touches, held the ball up well and a lovely cross for Soares' goal. I also didn't really see what Fletcher did wrong. One pass to Scannell was a very poor one but he looked quite fired up and at least had an effort from outside the box on his weaker foot.

Overall it wasn't a bad performance, but our defending cost us dear.

917L
30-08-2008, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by ThisIsDoM
. Lawrence had a nightmare trying to defend. Looked very slow and was at fault for at least one of them. .

Two games running he's been abysmal, lets hope McCarthy and Fonte are fit in two weeks

Big Guns
30-08-2008, 05:49 PM
Lawrence was useless for some reason kept ducking when going for a header, he needs to be dropped and used as a squad player at best.

Though Andrew played well and looks a good signing as does Lee

Ollie Ox
30-08-2008, 05:55 PM
glad to see the new boya doing well.

cpfcben
30-08-2008, 05:56 PM
The fans need to try and stay positive. There were certainly lots of plus points from today's game. If we had learnt how to defend set pieces then we would have won. Sounds so simple.

GK - Speroni - 7 - Solid performance.

RB - Butterfield - 7 - Solid display

LB - Hill - 6 - At times exposed by Reading's pacy attack. 100% commitment as always.

CB - Lawrence 4 - I believe he was supposed to me marking Doyle. Scored almost 3 identical goals all from set plays. Enough said. We need Fonte.

CB - McCarthy - 7 - I thought we really missed Paddy in the second half. The defence looked reasonably solid until he went off.

RM - Oster - 4 - I can't see what he adds. No pace, no skill, no anything. We are in dire straits if we are relying on him this season.

CM - Carle - 8 - In the first half he was fantastic and practically ran the game. Tired in the second in the weltering heat.

CM - Soares - 7 -Combative and dominating display capped off with a well taken goal. We need to keep hold of him.

CM - Derry - 7 - Another solid display. I was bemused as to why he was subbed with 10 minutes to go.

LM - Hills - 5 - Looked distinctly off the pace. Much better as a fullback than a left sided midfielder on this showing.

ST - Andrew - 7 - I'm was really impressed with him. Held the ball up well. Played some fantastic cross field passes. Still some debate as to whether he can scores goals at this level. A younger and hungrier version of Scowcroft.

Subs
Scannell - 6 -
Fletcher - 5 -
Lee - 7 - An encouraging display. Set up our second goal with a tidy cross.

jackamo
30-08-2008, 06:05 PM
Defending was woeful and Derry was rubbish. In that defensive midfield role he has two main odjectives tackling and keeping possession neither of which he did today.

philsick
30-08-2008, 06:07 PM
I thought we played well apart from the hill and lawrence slow show.But they wont come up against pace like that every week.But that aside,i thought we more than matched them.If it wasn't for the woeful couple of minutes of defending after we took the lead,i think we could of got a result.

Andrew was outstanding and worked his socks off,the only trouble being when he pulled out wide or was helping out in defence,we had nothing upfront.

Carle(loved the rabone) played well in midfield and soares did alot of work,but we miss the ability to pick out killer passes that watson could produce.

Using a dowie phrase,we can take the positives andwith a couple more additions,watson staying and the dropping of lawrence and hill,for fonte and mcCarthy,we will be alright.

speroni 8
hill 5
McCarthy 7
lawrence 4
butts 7

hills 6 Not a winger,will lose confidence,should be our left back.
derry 5
carle 8
soares 7
oster 6
andrew 9

subs lee 6
scannel 6
fletch 5

In the build up to their first 2 goals,the ball went out of play.(well defo the 2nd and how did nobody get a head to that corner,somebody having a tap in from 2yds,with nobody touching it is unnacceptable.

Axeman
30-08-2008, 06:08 PM
Just in the door. I can only echo the comments above about Carle and Andrew.
I was very impressed with Calvin's effort and vision. If he progresses as I hope then what a bargain he could prove to be.

As for Nick Carle, well, what can you say? Considering he was playing in a team that conceded four and lost by two, I thought he was awesome. Also, not for a few years have we seen someone with a bit of flair. What about his little flick-cross with his left foot right in front of us? I hate so say it but I hope he doesn't regret making the move to us, given our current situation.

Speroni also was up to his usual high standard with some fantastic saves. Alright, his kicking was a bit off at times but I am sure we can forgive him this once.

All in all, I felt there were plenty of reasons to see some light at the end of the tunnel.

BaldEagle96
30-08-2008, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Andy08
[B]

Spare a thought for my 4 sons who are going to get ripped big time over this result as we live in Reading!

[B]


Ditto, although we are in Wokingham :(:(:(:( (one for each of them)

JHJ EAGLE
30-08-2008, 06:14 PM
Does anyone know if Jose is injured?

PeterH
30-08-2008, 06:16 PM
Oh well. Fair ratimgs with some positives. Also, thus far, consistent rating from a number of posters.

Freddy Kurz
30-08-2008, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by JHJ EAGLE
Does anyone know if Jose is injured?

Yes, he is.

Maz
30-08-2008, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by PeterH
Oh well. Fair ratimgs with some positives. Also, thus far, consistent rating from a number of posters. A rarity.

A pleasure to read this thread. Gives me some good hope.

Billyd
30-08-2008, 06:18 PM
Just got back, was a shambles at the back.

GK - Speroni - 6 not seen reply but maybe could have come for 1 or 2 of those corners

RB - Butterfield - 6

LB - Hill - 6 - committed to be fair but did get done a few times

CB - Lawrence 2 - awful


CB - McCarthy - 7 -look best player at the back

RM - Oster - 0 - Did absolutely nothing. Didnt go in for any challanges and usually gave ball away

CM - Carle - 8 - great first half, best player on pitch

CM - Soares - 5 - doesnt get in game enough and demand ball like carle does

CM - Derry - 6 - pretty solid but needs to be more positive when he has the ball

LM - Hills - 3 - sorry i like the lad but he had a shocker today got done time after time.not ready for firtst team football. Cant beleive people on here said he might get an england call up this season....

ST - Andrew - 7 - worked hard but we offer nothing going forward




Lee - 6 - Did alright not much service
Scannell - 5 - lightweight. couldnt get in game
Fletcher - 6 - worked hardish

prizesucker
30-08-2008, 06:22 PM
Yes Jose is injured. (foot injury to be precise).

Andrew's work rate in that heat was outstanding. Thought he did really well. Carle's ball retention and usage of the ball isnt something i'm used to when watching Palace. Lee did fairly well, made the second goal and showed good hold-up play.

Lawrence was all over the place in both halves. Derry was awful and should have been taken off a lot earlier, what happened over the summer? Hunt & Armstrong had all the time in the world to attack and cross balls into the box due to Butterfield's inept defensive qualities.

Plus points were, we scored, Andrew, Carle and Lee's performances.

Bad points, Inability to defend set pieces, (which Coppell teams practice religiously) and guy who sat in front of me screaming at Reading fans, "you're gunna ***king die" :hmph:

Penstone Eagle
30-08-2008, 06:23 PM
Sorry to break the trend but Speroni should have done better with the second and third goals, some great saves but can't blame defenders for everything. He should have claimed the ball from the corner for the second goal and a stronger touch would have prevented the ball reaching the Reading player for the third.

Also, Oster and Derry were shocking

sribib
30-08-2008, 06:24 PM
I thought we deserved a draw and were let down by terrible marking from set pieces.

Speroni -5- i thought he was at fault for doyles frst goal as he didnt come out and flapped at doyles second also kicking was poor at times.

Hill -7- I thought he did okay overall attacked the ball well when moved to centre back although as ever does struggle agaisnt pace.

McCarthy -7- we looked fairly solid till he went off also got a great block in while he was injured which showed his commitment.

lawrence -5- backed off constantly which nearly allowed doyle to volley in beaten in the air for doyles third and potentially at fault for the other 2 from doyle as i think he was meant to be marking him although only saw it quickly in the match so can't be certain.

butterfield -5- struggled agaisnt hunt who i felt was excellent same as lawrence backed off to much.

Hills -5- struggled to beat his full back and poor crossing when given the chance when playing left wing. kebe caused him lots of problems while he playing left back and looked a little out of his depth with reading running at him.

Carle -8- excellent in the first half everything came through him tired in the second half but my MOM.

Soares -7- looked much better today seemed to work a lot harder did well to get in the box for his goal.

Derry -5- looked slow beaten to the ball by the reading midfield on a regular occasions distribution wasnt great either.

oster -6- made some good runs and decent set piece delivery but overall a pretty average squad player.

Andrew -8- Worked very hard made good runs held the ball up well won a lot of headers also good crossing when moved wide an improvement on scowcroft.
Subs
Lee -7- A good debut worked hard had a header well blocked and a good strike also a good cross for soares to score.

Scannel-6- Didnt really get involved.

Fletcher-5- Distribution was poor when he came on.

I thought Reading were impressive goin forward although doyle certainly didnt deserve a hatrick.

Billyd
30-08-2008, 06:26 PM
How are people giving Oster and Lawrence 4's or 5's is unbeliveable. Think a 3 would be generous

Nelson Muntz
30-08-2008, 06:26 PM
In the first half we did OK. Best I've seen this season with Carle pulling all the strings.
Once Paddy went we were ••••ed. Matt Lawrence and Hill couldn't handle Doyle and Jools was left totally exposed.
Two two footed challenges by Palace players I thought. TV will confirm, but I thought in the 1st half Carle went in 2 footed and in the 2nd Clint Hill did.
Steve Hunt was the best player on the pitch. Very impressive. The number 11 that came on for them (also called Hunt?) was rubbish.
It's an improvement, but not much of one.

Speroni is too good for this division. Seemed unlucky with 1st goal. No protection for the other 3. Made his usual herotic saves.

Matt Lawrence is so limited it's untrue. Shite.
Clint Hill looked injured towards the end, but had a poor afternoon.
Lee Hills was poor.
Danny B was average.
Once Paddy went off we were rubbish at the back. He was our best defender by a country mile.

All our play went through Nick Carle and he was very impressive.
Derry was woeful.
Didn't notice Soares and even less of Oster.

Calvin worked hard and looks decent. He's very raw, but the signs are there that he could be a good player for us.
Lee. Looked OK to me although attacked the other end, so difficult to assess.

Fans great. We deserve better.

Scrumpy
30-08-2008, 06:29 PM
Just got home. Think we played ok. Just 5 minutes of terrible defending after taking the lead gifted them the game. Thought Hills, Carle, Andrews and Lee were the stand out players for me today

eagle101
30-08-2008, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by cpfcben
The fans need to try and stay positive. There were certainly lots of plus points from today's game. If we had learnt how to defend set pieces then we would have won. Sounds so simple.

GK - Speroni - 7 - Solid performance.

RB - Butterfield - 7 - Solid display

LB - Hill - 6 - At times exposed by Reading's pacy attack. 100% commitment as always.

CB - Lawrence 4 - I believe he was supposed to me marking Doyle. Scored almost 3 identical goals all from set plays. Enough said. We need Fonte.

CB - McCarthy - 7 - I thought we really missed Paddy in the second half. The defence looked reasonably solid until he went off.

RM - Oster - 4 - I can't see what he adds. No pace, no skill, no anything. We are in dire straits if we are relying on him this season.

CM - Carle - 8 - In the first half he was fantastic and practically ran the game. Tired in the second in the weltering heat.

CM - Soares - 7 -Combative and dominating display capped off with a well taken goal. We need to keep hold of him.

CM - Derry - 7 - Another solid display. I was bemused as to why he was subbed with 10 minutes to go.

LM - Hills - 5 - Looked distinctly off the pace. Much better as a fullback than a left sided midfielder on this showing.

ST - Andrew - 7 - I'm was really impressed with him. Held the ball up well. Played some fantastic cross field passes. Still some debate as to whether he can scores goals at this level. A younger and hungrier version of Scowcroft.

Subs
Scannell - 6 -
Fletcher - 5 -
Lee - 7 - An encouraging display. Set up our second goal with a tidy cross.

Originally posted by Nelson Muntz
In the first half we did OK. Best I've seen this season with Carle pulling all the strings.
Once Paddy went we were ••••ed. Matt Lawrence and Hill couldn't handle Doyle and Jools was left totally exposed.
Two two footed challenges by Palace players I thought. TV will confirm, but I thought in the 1st half Carle went in 2 footed and in the 2nd Clint Hill did.
Steve Hunt was the best player on the pitch. Very impressive. The number 11 that came on for them (also called Hunt?) was rubbish.
It's an improvement, but not much of one.

Speroni is too good for this division. Seemed unlucky with 1st goal. No protection for the other 3. Made his usual herotic saves.

Matt Lawrence is so limited it's untrue. Shite.
Clint Hill looked injured towards the end, but had a poor afternoon.
Lee Hills was poor.
Danny B was average.
Once Paddy went off we were rubbish at the back. He was our best defender by a country mile.

All our play went through Nick Carle and he was very impressive.
Derry was woeful.
Didn't notice Soares and even less of Oster.

Calvin worked hard and looks decent. He's very raw, but the signs are there that he could be a good player for us.
Lee. Looked OK to me although attacked the other end, so difficult to assess.

Fans great. We deserve better.

What those two said.

Also - I'm convinced that for their second goal, the ball had gone out by Warnock's technical area, so they shouldn't have been able to get a corner!

And please Warnock, stop with picking Matt Lawrence, he was awful today. I know he's your favourite and everything but he's just shit.

Mad Max
30-08-2008, 06:36 PM
Not going to do a ratings thing but just a few comments.

Carle was outstanding,easily the best player on the pitch.The one handed by the knuckles save by Speroni was worth the entrance money alone,world class.By the way Speroni was kicking the ball down the left wing on instructions from Neil.Lee won more in the air in the second half that he was on than Scowcroft has won all season.AND WE KEPT THE BALL ON THE FLOOR.:lux: :lux:

LLCOOLSTEVE
30-08-2008, 06:37 PM
yes Readings number 11 Noel Hunt is Stephen Hunts brother

Gooders
30-08-2008, 06:38 PM
Very good, open, entertaining game.

We played some excellent stuff in the first half, mostly at Carle's instigation. Hardly a hoof in sight.

Reading are still a pretty tidy team and they definitely deserved the win, but there were quite a few positives in Palace's performance.

Speroni once again made two or three excellent saves and probably couldn't do much with the goals which were scored from a combined 10 yards. His kicking was a bit off second half though.

Hill and Hills both had poor games, especially second half. Hill is either not a central defender, or has forgotten how. McCarthy was pretty solid and got a nasty knock when Hunt (I think) jumped into him as he cleared the ball. :(

Butters was ok first half but not so good second; Lawrence went totally missing second half as Reading drove tractors through the middle.

Derry was really poor again today. Kept passing straight to them time after time and stood stock still and watched as Doyle scored their third. Cannot understand how anyone has given him more than 5 - very sloppy play.

Carle was excellent first half but as someone else said, he faded a bit later on. Nevertheless, we are starting to learn how to play through this guy, which is good.

Oster didn't do an awful lot. Soares did ok, and scored of course - by gambling on getting into the 6-yard box. More please Tom.

Andrew is getting better with each game, IMHO. He has a good left foot, won loads of headers today and held the ball up well. Very promising.

Lee looked good when he came on too. Better on the deck than Scowie by far, he also won a good few aerial challenges but not often with headers, rather by using his body to get control of the ball and try to play football. Great cross for Tom's goal. Again, very promising.

If Reading lose Doyle in this transfer window they might stuggle to mount a promotion bid; keep him and they'll have a chance at top two I reckon.

Their fans are right anoraks though, and only sing when they're winning.

PJJY
30-08-2008, 06:40 PM
Sounds like there are plenty of positives to take from today.

And with a few new signings in the next two days and the two week break (alllowing McCarthy, Scannell, Moses and Fonte to get 100% fit) we should have a much improved performance against Swansea.

Al From Bromley
30-08-2008, 06:40 PM
Here was me thinking that defensively Palace had it sorted and it was just up front they needed a bit of oomph and along comes a 4 goal concession which could have been more if not for Speroni.

PeterH
30-08-2008, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Maz
A rarity.

A pleasure to read this thread. Gives me some good hope.

Indeed. It has buoyed me up. I had just seen that we shipped a shed load after going in front. But there appears to have been some steady performances by players likely to be key for us this season.

There is a break now. Perhaps we can start again with players fit and the transfer window behind us.

PeterH
30-08-2008, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by prizesucker
and guy who sat in front of me screaming at Reading fans, "you're gunna ***king die" :hmph:

Dear oh Dear. Every club has them.

Billyd
30-08-2008, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by PJJY
Sounds like there are plenty of positives to take from today.




personally dont think there were any, we had 2 shots on target one being a pen and we cant defend

Barney Gumble
30-08-2008, 06:49 PM
Derry Lawrence and Oster were shocking and not fit to wear the shirt.

Forgetting them, what a breath of fresh air Calvin Andrew was. He is quick, strong and has a lot of qualities that a good front man needs. Well done Warnock. There is something in this lad.

Well done too for Speroni for keeping us in the game with some great saves, but you let the side down a bit by not coming for a couple of those set pieces.

Nick Carle showed the class that he has and in a more advanced role today. Why the hell he signed for us I will never know, he is going to be a star.

New signing Lee looked good too, hungry and sharp. Good turn and cross for the goal.

Thank God we will never see Slowcroft in a Palace shirt again. :p

Having said all that, I think we have turned a corner today as we played well going forward. I am confident we will go on a winning run again soon.

Keep the faith.

PJJY
30-08-2008, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Billyd
personally dont think there were any, we had 2 shots on target one being a pen and we cant defend

So you dont think Nick Carle, Calvin Andrew, Alan Lee or Speroni played well then?

Obviously we got beaten and we were awful defensively but it's not all doom and gloom

Chobham Eagle
30-08-2008, 06:56 PM
It's nice to read a lot of posts from people who saw a lot more postives today than I did. When we went one down I thought we were going to get truly tonked before a rather fortuitous penalty got us back into the game.

As others have said, the defending was woeful. I also wonder just how long people are going to tolerate seeing so little of Moses and Scannel. Just why did Oster play ahead of these two?

I saw SJ driving away from the ground soon after the final whistle, presumably having declined a post match drink with John Madejski. Sorry to be controversial, but if he had stayed for a chat with JM he might have picked up a few tips about how good football clubs are run and, in particular, how not to fall out with one of the best managers in the country.

Diamondeagle
30-08-2008, 06:56 PM
not bad performance some positives in Andrews Carle and Lee. We are still not good enough dreadful defending and dreadful central midfield duo of Derry and Soares.

Really hope we get a couple of premier loanees to rescue our season or it is going to be typical palace long haul this year...

Chillo
30-08-2008, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by prizesucker
guy who sat in front of me screaming at Reading fans, "you're gunna ***king die" :hmph:

Sorry about that :p

Seriously, I thought it was the best performance of the year so far:-

Plusses:-

Nick Carle - wanted the ball and ran his heart out
Calvin Andrew - worked very hard
Alan Lee - controlled the ball well and brought others in to play
Palace fans - lots of singing

Minuses:-

Matt Lawrence - yes, why did he keep ducking under the ball?
Sean Derry - did very little
John Oster - did very little
Lee Hills - not playing in a position where he feels confortable

philsick
30-08-2008, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Nelson Muntz


Didn't notice Soares

Not even his goal or being instrumental in the build up for the penalty.

spt1978
30-08-2008, 07:01 PM
Derry really has been rubbish this season. Should be dropped.

philsick
30-08-2008, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by spt1978
Derry really has been rubbish this season. Should be dropped.

I thought he was pretty poor towards the end of last season.

The problem here is derry,lawrence and hill,arewarnock type players and obviously his favs,so although in my eyes they are the weaklink.I cant see him dropping any of them.

eagle101
30-08-2008, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Chobham Eagle
I saw SJ driving away from the ground soon after the final whistle, presumably having declined a post match drink with John Madejski. Sorry to be controversial, but if he had stayed for a chat with JM he might have picked up a few tips about how good football clubs are run and, in particular, how not to fall out with one of the best managers in the country.

:rolleyes:

Reading fans are pissed off with Madejski and they want him to sell up because they feel he's not investing in the team, and I believe we've spent more than Reading this season. JAT.

Al From Bromley
30-08-2008, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by Chillo
I thought it was the best performance of the year so far:-

Oh how the mighty have fallen, OK, the reasonably good team. A 4-2 defeat the best performance of the year so far? Mind you, not much to beat, it can only get better after the break hopefully.

cpfcmazz
30-08-2008, 07:15 PM
Highlights

Nick Carle - 9 - Had a stormer, showed flair (lovely little ronaldo style flick back into the box) ran our midfield in the first half (which says a lot for derry) was good going forward and got a few shots in which was good to see. Hes looks like he's going to be a really important player for us this season !

Calvin Andrew - 8 - For effort. Ran his socks off today and held the ball up well, looking a steal at £80,000.

Lowpoints

John Oster - 2 - Only give him two to be nice. He did absolutely nothing today and adds nothing to the team. Gave the ball away consistently, can see why reading fans are glad he left..

Matt Lawrence 3 / 4 - The guy ducks into headers which he somehow occasionally wins. 3/4 for the one clearance he did in the second half. Please please neill put in fonte.

Reading fans - 1 - crap, I think they must have sung 4 times all game (when they scored) definetely worse than clowns fans for sure ..

Palace turnout was good loud for most of the times and a pat on the back to all the lads at the back of the palace end who carried on singing and trying to get the others singing

ZOHAR
30-08-2008, 07:15 PM
Crystal Palace manager Neil Warnock:"Kevin Doyle will never get an easier hat-trick than that.

"The marking was a disgrace from three corners and it's a good job that they sold Ibrahima Sonko to Stoke otherwise they could have had 10.

"But if you defend like that you'll get beaten by Bodmin and Saltash - never mind a team like Reading."

Click below link for BBC London 94.9 interview with Warnock:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7590115.stm

Chobham Eagle
30-08-2008, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by eagle101
:rolleyes:

Reading fans are pissed off with Madejski and they want him to sell up because they feel he's not investing in the team, and I believe we've spent more than Reading this season. JAT.

The two Reading fans I was talking to after the game in the fantastic facilities they have there clearly are not at all pissed off with Madejski. Quite the opposite actually.

JAT

Ruskin Old Boy
30-08-2008, 07:15 PM
Plenty of positives from today ... Carle was our man of the match, suspect that not every Palace player has the vision to take advantage of his silky play. Speroni performed heroics, the save referred to earlier , was world class. Lee looked promising, Soares played well (if you weren't there, ignore those who've got it in for him, there was one prize prat on the coach who couldn't accpet that he'd scored), Andrew looks promising.

Comment above about their second goal is correct, the ball was out of play. Will be interesting to see their third goal again as Speroni was impeded coming for the ball - couldn't see if it was a Palace or Reading player who blocked him.

McArthy was badly fouled which lead his substitution; Hill and Hills also got bad knocks in the second half - Andrew had to fill in at left back for a while as we'd used all three subs.

Reading looked very good and if they keep Doyle and Stephen Hunt look as if they'll get automatic promotion.

Only (Palace) disappointments were Derry and Lawrence in the second half, the latter badly lost Doyle on more than one occasion but he'll rarely come up against someone as good as Doyle.

One more plus point - chatting with David Payne at half time, his usual realistic yet positive view of Palace.

One big negative - glasses broke in the second half.

And, their fanzine, 'The Whiff!', very good and only a quid

Barbara4003
30-08-2008, 07:16 PM
I loved the way they painted the toilets red and blue for us :D

Nice stadium though, although I was a bit high up and it was a bit frightening.

philsick
30-08-2008, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by eagle101
:rolleyes:

Reading fans are pissed off with Madejski and they want him to sell up because they feel he's not investing in the team, and I believe we've spent more than Reading this season. JAT.


Madejski's half time arm waving on the pitch,was cringeworthy.

Chobham Eagle
30-08-2008, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by ZOHAR
Crystal Palace manager Neil Warnock:"Kevin Doyle will never get an easier hat-trick than that.

"The marking was a disgrace from three corners and it's a good job that they sold Ibrahima Sonko to Stoke otherwise they could have had 10.

"But if you defend like that you'll get beaten by Bodmin and Saltash - never mind a team like Reading."


Well I'm glad he spotted that too. Hopefully he'll now sort the problem out.

Al From Bromley
30-08-2008, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by ZOHAR
Crystal Palace manager Neil Warnock:"Kevin Doyle will never get an easier hat-trick than that.

"The marking was a disgrace from three corners and it's a good job that they sold Ibrahima Sonko to Stoke otherwise they could have had 10.

"But if you defend like that you'll get beaten by Bodmin and Saltash - never mind a team like Reading."

Click below link for BBC London 94.9 interview with Warnock:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7590115.stm

The best performance of the year so far eh?

Richard
30-08-2008, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Maz
A pleasure to read this thread. Gives me some good hope. Seconded.

It's nice to pop the ball in the old onion bag a couple of times, just for a start.

Johnson
30-08-2008, 07:20 PM
Crystal Palace manager Neil Warnock:"Kevin Doyle will never get an easier hat-trick than that.

"The marking was a disgrace from three corners and it's a good job that they sold Ibrahima Sonko to Stoke otherwise they could have had 10.

"But if you defend like that you'll get beaten by Bodmin and Saltash - never mind a team like Reading."

philsick
30-08-2008, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Ruskin Old Boy
Will be interesting to see their third goal again as Speroni was impeded coming for the ball - couldn't see if it was a Palace or Reading player who blocked him.



It was clint hill:(

peagle
30-08-2008, 07:21 PM
Oh here we go! This should be a good one (and i haven't read any other ratings yet either!):

Julian Speroni-6- Well, well, well. The brilliant argentine was not at his best today and it showed as he leaked (?) in 4 goals. However, these don't neccesarily reflect his personal performance, more his defence's. He made some mistakes but none of them were at fault for the goals. Some good stops saved his rating however.

Clint Hill-6- Played well enough with no major errors in my opinion. Was noticably injured in the second half but could not come off as all subs had been used. My opinion may change after watching the higlights however.

McCarthy-7- Looked good all half and is impressing me alot. Shame he had to come off as we would not have let in any of Doyle's goals if he had of been there in my opinion.

Lawrence-3- OMG why was his contract extended? Somebody please explain. His distribution was shocking, no aim and just a hoof. Of his clearences i reckon we lost 100%. His defending was also appauling as he was constantly pulled out of position. Allthough replays may change my mind, both of Doyle's first two goals were his fault imo.

Butterfield-6- Looked average. Not too god or bad.

Oster-8- Very good again. Good vision and passing and some good crosses. Kept the ball well and recycled with his passing. kept it simple when necessary.

Derry-5- Another poor performance in my opinion. Needs to dominate the midfield and often out of position. Some stray passes didn't help.

Soares-8- Very pleased with Soares again. Transfer list? Why? Even got us our first goal from open play, though it wasn't a dificult one! Another who played it simple when neccesary but had moments of brilliance.

Nicky Carle-9 MOTM- Oh to see Palace score again! Wasn't it a wonderful feeling when the ball finally hit the opposition net. I certainly celebrated as much as possible before we were brought back down to earth. This helped his confidence and he went from strength to strength with some brilliant passes and his usual phenominal work rate. Even a showboat cross thrown in! Well played Nick.

Lee Hills-4- Poor kid was totally at fault for their first and looked unusually out of his depth throughout in my opinion. Never looked to attack the defender and run at him in the first half he made too simple passes every time. Offered nothing in attack and was caught out in defence. Second half he looked better but still poor as he was easily skipped past in defence and offered nothing in attack again. The boy will learn though and is still a bright prospect.

Andrew-(1st half)8 (2nd half)6- In the first half he caused the defence some problems and they clearly wern't enjoying themselves. Was looking good. For some reason he was moved to the left wing however where he found it hard to get into the ganme again and his flick-ons went slightly off. Still gets a 6 for his work-rate and because I like him ALOT!

Subs: Mr Lee-7- Looked dangerous and should do well when he has got to know his teammates. tried very hard and popped up at the far post looking dangerous.

Sean Scannel-5- Was played down the middle for some reason while Andrwews was left out wide. Why? Tried hard but couldn't get into the game and fluffed up when he did.

Carl Fletcher-5-Would have started him today personally instead of Derry. However, he did not look particularly good with his only adventurous pass going astray. However had no time to score worse!

His Royal Warnockness-6.5- Got the players going again today and made a good team selection on the whole. Strange decision with Scannel/Andrew imo but overall good. Not his fault his defence let him down.

The Mighty red and Blue Army-7- We were good guys, but could have been better! It went very flat in places and the best atmosphere was down in the bar!

Chillo
30-08-2008, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
The best performance of the year so far eh?

Yes,

if you've seen the other performances you'll know how poor we have been AS A TEAM.

We created some chances, passed the ball well, but defended badly.

If it means we now get a centre back partnership of Jose and Paddy, I can live with a 4-2 defeat today.

Barbara4003
30-08-2008, 07:23 PM
Lee Hills was injured in the second half and couldn't come off. I didn't notice Clint Hill being injured.

aj4england
30-08-2008, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by spt1978
Derry really has been rubbish this season. Should be dropped.

detoriated badly since signing his contract!

Archiebald Leitch
30-08-2008, 07:27 PM
As I see It:

First half we played much the better football. BBC Berkshire had Reading fans phoning in complaining that Palace played football whilst they hoofed! Carle was outstanding whilst Derry gave the ball away far too often. Hills and Oster offered width but down our left we looked vulnerable with Hill and Hills. Calvin Andrew wins headers, can dribble and now needs to get into scoring positions.

Second half we were second best - Carle ran out of steam, Derry continued to give the ball away and the poor defending from set pieces is documented. Alan Lee also wins headers and holds the ball up well - I like the way he busts a gut to get in the box when the ball is wide.

Overall though there was glimmer of hope especially from the first half performance where we were the better team. (We did hit the bar also!!)

I read a comment from someone on last weeks ratings thread that we would not have a good turnout at this one - well we did.

KevMason98
30-08-2008, 07:33 PM
Much much better today!

We passed and played well.

agree we were undone by set pieces which last season we looked like we could handle anything thrown at us.

the pitch was massive both length and width and we used the space wisely, but reading were more canny and attacked with pace down both flanks and wipped in low crosses which was our undoing as they either seemed to score or win corners!

we ran out of steam in the end on a really hot day!!

Plus points....Speroni, Carle, Soares and Andrew all had great games and Lee had a wonderful second half! Looks like a good aqcuisition on 45 minutes!

We are now not shy of a good team I feel!

enjoyed the game (a lot) even though we lost.

Great passing, end to end football. Lots of goalmouth action!
altogether a great day.....apart from the result obviously!

Typical Palace
30-08-2008, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
The best performance of the year so far eh?
Er, yes actually. NW said it was the first game he's enjoyed so far this season. He saw plenty of positives and so did I. Maybe you would've if you'd been able to go.

Reading are a good side, put us under loads of pressure: loads of crosses, corners, breaks. They've got more pace in their side than many, many other clubs. Hills was made to look slow by Kebe, and he's no slouch.

As NW spun: if we'd defended corners we'd have won. Over simplification sure, but he's got a point.

Our last two games at the Mad Stad have been great matches, but painful.

Ruskin Old Boy
30-08-2008, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by philsick
It was clint hill:(

Thanks.

Nelson Muntz
30-08-2008, 07:35 PM
I took a picture as Nick Carle scored the penalty.

Barbara4003
30-08-2008, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Nelson Muntz
I took a picture as Nick Carle scored the penalty.

Thanks for that because I turned away just as he was about to take it :)

budgie
30-08-2008, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by eagle101
What those two said.



How very strange, looking at the two ratings, they disagreed on so much, it's difficult to see how you can agree, when one marks a player low and the other rates them high.

cpfc4evandeva
30-08-2008, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Shipp Ahoy!
Why oh why do we persist with 4-3-bloody 3 (or 4-5-1) whatever way you look at it.


We changed to 442 in the second half and didn't look as good.

433 worked in the first half imo.

Originally posted by Nelson Muntz
In the first half we did OK. Best I've seen this season with Carle pulling all the strings.
Once Paddy went we were ••••ed. Matt Lawrence and Hill couldn't handle Doyle and Jools was left totally exposed.

As mentioned here.

Nick Carle was amazing. Everytime he had the ball he made himself time and space. Played nice simple passes aswell as adventurous ones. Has great vision and movement.

A premiership player based on that performance.

As much as I love Lawrence he MUST be dropped. And I think Moses has to come back in to the mix.

And finally (as many others have said) Reading's number 11 was shocking. Missed about 3 or 4 sitters inside 20 minutes.

Mark Gardiner
30-08-2008, 07:51 PM
It was an enjoyable game to watch, with two sides prepared to pass the ball whilst simultaneously allowing the opposition time & space in which to do it, and with both teams looking defensively vulnerable down the flanks. Reading’s pace was a sharp reminded to Palace fans of how we used to deploy Andy Johnson in this division, and they had the game’s stand-out player in Jimmy Kebe. Ultimately Palace were undone by a collective failure to defend corners; if you took the total distances from which Doyle scored his hat-trick, you would still fail to get beyond the six-yard box.

Palace started brightly and were shading the game early on, is the now standard 4-3-3 formation with Calvin Andrew the spear point, flanked by Oster & Hills. Their luck turned when Hahnemann badly fumbled a cross which ended up bouncing on top of the crossbar. Almost immediately Rosenior worked his way around Hills, his deflected cross ended up with a sprawling Speroni save followed by the rebound being stuck away. Reading then gained the ascendancy, and it was somewhat of a surprise when Carle won a penalty when his sharp shot hit an outstretched arm. Carle himself sent Hahnemann the wrong way from the spot, and despite my prediction that confusion would reign as none of us would remember what to do when spherical object met string, everyone went loopy! Palace ended the half with the advantage of boosted morale.

It is arguable that the game turned a few minutes before half time, when McCarthy picked up an injury, as he failed to reappear for the second half. Warnock chose not to make a like-for-like replacement in Ertl, but switched Clint Hill to centre back, Lee Hills to left back, Andrew to left side of the front three, with Alan Lee making his debut. Although Palace had appeared shaky facing corners in the first half, with one effort seemingly cleared off the line at the far post, Reading started after the interval with a series of dangerous corners, one thanks to a world-class save from Speroni, through which Palace somehow escaped unscathed. With a rare foray up front, Lee worked the ball to the far post where Soares beat his man and squeezed the ball home.

Pandemonium reigned once again in the stands! Unfortunately it also reigned in Palace’s defence. Within a minute a corner landed at Doyle’s feet about two yards out: two all and in my mind Speroni culpable. A few minutes later another corner ran beyond the far post, and the return ball was turned home by the goal-hanging Doyle. After that, although Palace huffed and puffed, withdrawing Oster for Scannell and later Derry for Fletcher, little was gained apart from a Carle free kick sent over the bar. Reading always looked likely to score on the break, especially as both Hill and Hills appeared to be carrying leg injuries and struggled to some degree. The impressive Kebe could have had two himself if he had been more selfish, and another corner late on saw Doyle finish off a knock-back from under the bar.

Speroni - 6 - A good performance unhinged by Julian’s part in the collective failure to defend corners. A ball dropping into the goalmouth three yards out must be the ‘keeper’s, and certainly the Palace defence were statuesque awaiting Julian’s coming. Unlucky when a close-range block dropped at Harper’s feet. Probably blameless for the last two goals. One excellent full-length save tipped the ball over.

Butterfield - 6 - Struggled initially against Harper, and Reading often found an open door leading straight to our goal-line, although Danny often retrieved the situation when covering back. As the game wore on and Palace held a high line, was often scuttling back against Reading’s quick breaks. His venture’s forward did not lead to much.

Hill - 6 - Struggled at left back, especially as Hills was too often caught out of position, but was unlucky when it was his attempted block of Rosenior’s cross that threw the defence off balance. Looked happier at centre half but was too often caught for pace by Doyle, Long and Kebe. Another who must assume some blame for the woeful defending against corners.

Lawrence - 5 - Looked shaky, with poor clearing headers and some hopeful / hopeless punts up field. Another of the guilty collective.

McCarthy - 6 - Was more noticeable in his absence after half-time, when the defence decided that defending against set pieces was optional rather than mandatory.

Derry - 5 - At times the game suited Shaun’s game, as he often had room to bring the ball forwards well into Reading’s half. Unfortunately it seldom led to much, and Shaun also gave the ball away with some sloppy short passes.

Soares - 6 - As is usual with Tom he flitted in and out of the game, but was involved in the build-up for the first goal, and made an excellent late run to the far post for the second. Worked harder than usual; perhaps he should be transfer listed more often!

Carle -7 - Like Derry, the space afforded Nick allowed him to show his class, and he was often involved in some sharp Palace passing. Made a marvellous back heel from the goal-line that nearly led to a goal for Andrew. Penalty was excellent. Worked a lot harder than recently, perhaps now truly match sharp.

Hills - 5 - Did not look match fit, and was too often caught out of position or in possession. Allowed Rosenior to run around him for Reading’s first goal, but to counter it was his challenge at the back post which led to Palace’s penalty award. Ended up at left back but looked uncomfortable in general.

Oster - 5 - Think Tom Soares with less influence on the game. I could have sworn he had been substituted long before his number came up. Like most of the Palace midfield, was involved in some slick passing, but seldom threatened down the right.

Andrew - 7 - Far more mobile than the pillbox that is Scowcroft, and won a few balls in the air as well. Showed well up front in the first half, often pulling wide right and exploiting the space behind Reading’s left back. Has a decent cross on him as well. Tried hard on the left after the interval, at one time filling in at left back for an ailing Hills. Looks a reasonable prospect, worth a run in the team.

Lee - 6 - Set up Soares’s goal with a nice touch, and had a far post header unwittingly blocked by a defender. Faded as the second half went on, more due to a lack of realistic support than anything else.

Scannell - 6 - Hardly saw the ball as a late substitute.

Fletcher - 5 - Did see the ball, but with a way-wide shot and an excellent pass 20 yards behind his winger, may have wished he hadn’t.

cpfc4evandeva
30-08-2008, 07:56 PM
One more thing - Lee Hills was terrible today. As a left winger and as a left back.

Shame, I really like him but he was outmuscled, outpaced and just not up to it.

rhiannapaul
30-08-2008, 07:56 PM
how can conceding 4 goals be good ! to a team that are not very good
we are in trouble big time

917L
30-08-2008, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by rhiannapaul
how can conceding 4 goals be good ! to a team that are not very good
we are in trouble big time

Reading are still one of the favourites for promption and unless you missed it have been in the Premier league for the last 2 seasons.

And I dont reacll anyone saying conceding 4 goals is good, but that the performance and footballgoing forward was far better

kolinkins
30-08-2008, 08:01 PM
Delighted to read about the way we went about it.

Hopefully NW will take action at the back.

Lets see what Ertl can do while we wait for Fonte.

peagle
30-08-2008, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by 917L
Reading are still one of the favourites for promption and unless you missed it have been in the Premier league for the last 2 seasons.

And I dont reacll anyone saying conceding 4 goals is good, but that the performance and footballgoing forward was far better
Apart from lawrence the defence was OK. Clint Hill may also have been at fault and Lee Hills was poor, but they were not MAJOR problems.

<_tece_>
30-08-2008, 08:30 PM
What number was Lee?

Maximus Dowieus
30-08-2008, 08:39 PM
Agree with others that said there were positive points. There was no faulting the effort on the part of the players. It was a hot afternoon and they put their hearts into it. We were undone at the back. However, as already pointed out Reading are a good side (clearly one of the best in the div) and were very quick and incisive coming forward. For me, that was the main difference, they were able to open us up at will, especially in 2nd half and we spent too much time playing in front of them and could not penetrate. At least the play was on the floor though.

One final thing, I was in the Reading end near their drummer and he makes a hell of a difference in rousing their supporters. It is simply not true to say their support was no good. I was in the middle of them and their support was very good. Fair play to them. A lot more of their fans join in the clapping and songs than ours at Palace. We could learn a bit from them. Not a criticism of our away fans who I could hear quite well from the other end. Well done lads and lasses!

Godstone Eagle
30-08-2008, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by rhiannapaul
to a team that are not very good
we are in trouble big time

:confused: :hmph: To a team that arent very good, who were in the Premiership last season and the favourites to go up you mean?
FFS, weve lost two two games, away to Preston and Reading..both really tough games. Yes, there are problems that we need to address, but to say we are in trouble big time after 4 league games into the season is a bit of a hysterical reaction.

Palace_Man23
30-08-2008, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by <_tece_>
What number was Lee?

The famous number 9 ....

Palace_Man23
30-08-2008, 08:44 PM
As for a breif ratings ...

Derry was a 4 he just isn't good enough.

Tom Soares And nicky carle were solid 8's

Andrew was outstanding 9 ran his socks off 100000000000000000000000000000000000x as good as SlowCantWinAHeaderCroft. (Quite proud of that name myself !)

Alan lee looked bright especially as he barley knows the lads names.

peagle
30-08-2008, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Palace_Man23
As for a breif ratings ...

Derry was a 4 he just isn't good enough.

Tom Soares And nicky carle were solid 8's

Andrew was outstanding 9 ran his socks off 100000000000000000000000000000000000x as good as SlowCantWinAHeaderCroft. (Quite proud of that name myself !)

Alan lee looked bright especially as he barley knows the lads names.
Wouldn't argue with any of that!

ElwissAtMemphis
30-08-2008, 08:52 PM
In his column in The Independent today, Warnock wrote "now I'm off to Reading, where, as some of you will recall, I've some great mates and I'm really popular." Presumably he was being sarcastic. What's that all about ?

Who has he fallen out with there and why ? Did he get any stick from the crowd ? (more than usual anyway)

<_tece_>
30-08-2008, 08:54 PM
Wally Downes.

ElwissAtMemphis
30-08-2008, 09:00 PM
So what happened with him ? I got the impression the problem was with Reading in general not just one individual (although he stressed how much he likes Steve Coppell)

syndrome plaza
30-08-2008, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
Here was me thinking that defensively Palace had it sorted and it was just up front they needed a bit of oomph and along comes a 4 goal concession which could have been more if not for Speroni.

Were you at the game?

Biggineagle
30-08-2008, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Very good, open, entertaining game.

We played some excellent stuff in the first half, mostly at Carle's instigation. Hardly a hoof in sight.

Reading are still a pretty tidy team and they definitely deserved the win, but there were quite a few positives in Palace's performance.

Speroni once again made two or three excellent saves and probably couldn't do much with the goals which were scored from a combined 10 yards. His kicking was a bit off second half though.

Hill and Hills both had poor games, especially second half. Hill is either not a central defender, or has forgotten how. McCarthy was pretty solid and got a nasty knock when Hunt (I think) jumped into him as he cleared the ball. :(

Butters was ok first half but not so good second; Lawrence went totally missing second half as Reading drove tractors through the middle.

Derry was really poor again today. Kept passing straight to them time after time and stood stock still and watched as Doyle scored their third. Cannot understand how anyone has given him more than 5 - very sloppy play.

Carle was excellent first half but as someone else said, he faded a bit later on. Nevertheless, we are starting to learn how to play through this guy, which is good.

Oster didn't do an awful lot. Soares did ok, and scored of course - by gambling on getting into the 6-yard box. More please Tom.

Andrew is getting better with each game, IMHO. He has a good left foot, won loads of headers today and held the ball up well. Very promising.

Lee looked good when he came on too. Better on the deck than Scowie by far, he also won a good few aerial challenges but not often with headers, rather by using his body to get control of the ball and try to play football. Great cross for Tom's goal. Again, very promising.

If Reading lose Doyle in this transfer window they might stuggle to mount a promotion bid; keep him and they'll have a chance at top two I reckon.

Their fans are right anoraks though, and only sing when they're winning.

Thanks for that Gooders, look forward to your informative match report and ratings.

Nice one:p

Sam Spade
30-08-2008, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Very good, open, entertaining game.

We played some excellent stuff in the first half, mostly at Carle's instigation. Hardly a hoof in sight.

Reading are still a pretty tidy team and they definitely deserved the win, but there were quite a few positives in Palace's performance.

Speroni once again made two or three excellent saves and probably couldn't do much with the goals which were scored from a combined 10 yards. His kicking was a bit off second half though.

Hill and Hills both had poor games, especially second half. Hill is either not a central defender, or has forgotten how. McCarthy was pretty solid and got a nasty knock when Hunt (I think) jumped into him as he cleared the ball. :(

Butters was ok first half but not so good second; Lawrence went totally missing second half as Reading drove tractors through the middle.

Derry was really poor again today. Kept passing straight to them time after time and stood stock still and watched as Doyle scored their third. Cannot understand how anyone has given him more than 5 - very sloppy play.

Carle was excellent first half but as someone else said, he faded a bit later on. Nevertheless, we are starting to learn how to play through this guy, which is good.

Oster didn't do an awful lot. Soares did ok, and scored of course - by gambling on getting into the 6-yard box. More please Tom.

Andrew is getting better with each game, IMHO. He has a good left foot, won loads of headers today and held the ball up well. Very promising.

Lee looked good when he came on too. Better on the deck than Scowie by far, he also won a good few aerial challenges but not often with headers, rather by using his body to get control of the ball and try to play football. Great cross for Tom's goal. Again, very promising.

If Reading lose Doyle in this transfer window they might stuggle to mount a promotion bid; keep him and they'll have a chance at top two I reckon.

Their fans are right anoraks though, and only sing when they're winning.

Yep, thats the game I was at. (That is the second week running Gooders has done that, perhaps he is a long lost relative.:) )

A couple of comments of my own; once or twice Lawrence managed to be in the right post code area, but seemed incapable of contributing anything positive defensively. Chasing (I use the word carefully), another ball over the top to a pacy Reading forward, picture Giant Haystacks chasing Carl Lewis.
Carle was at the centre of most of Palaces attacking movement, winning tackles, always making himself available and full of skill and energy. Calvin Andrews never stopped running and looked comfortable at Championship level. I feel people might have been a bit harsh on Derry, he grafted away, but his distribution was woeful. Thought Butters was not at his best today.
Readings "fans" are a creation of Sky TV and have no knowledge of anything prior to 1992. "Sing when you're winning" was invented just for them.

greenlight
30-08-2008, 09:11 PM
So many of you raving about Soares. I thought he was very poor - yes he played a part in both our goals, but he has to realise a match is 90 minutes long. Must get rid asap!!
Calvin Andrew reminded me so much of Chrissie Armstrong in the way he was able to work out wide in the second half (although CA was a right sided player). Maybe this will see a return to 442 with CA playing out wide.

Twin of Droy
30-08-2008, 09:13 PM
I thought we gave up when Reading got their 3rd goal though.

We were reasonable in possesion and they were great on the break, always at their most dangerous when their Keeper had the ball in his hands.

pauldrulez
30-08-2008, 09:24 PM
I thought Soares was very good and along with Carle and Andrew were our best players.

Without Jules that could have been a lot, lot worse. I have a feeling he took a knock in the 2nd half as he wasnt as comfortable claiming and struggled with his kicking but even so would have been my MOM until the goals came flying in.

In the 2nd Half, Lawrence awful. Hill awful. Lee out of position and struggled in 2nd Half to adapt to LB and took a knock.

Paddy kept that defence strong until half time despite the first goal that should have been cleared.

Derry, committed tackling isnt enough, very average. Replace with Watson for next home game (if here obv).

Oster struggled but also didnt have the ball as much as Lee as we attacked down the left wing everytime until Tommys goal.

Alan Lee looked good, won some freekicks, crossed the ball well and won the ball in the air. Decent debut.

Scannell- is there a point to him playing at the minute. Has looked dreadful, lightweight and still needs to bulk up. Play Victor or cash in big time.

Andrew was my MOM and has put a lot of effort in, knowing that there is another striker after that place in the team. Played up front and ran around well in the first half trying to create space for the "wingers". 2nd Half, pushed into unfamiliar position on the wing and created more chances for the others. One for the future, definitely.

El Aguila
30-08-2008, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by greenlight

Calvin Andrew reminded me so much of Chrissie Armstrong in the way he was able to work out wide in the second half (although CA was a right sided player). Maybe this will see a return to 442 with CA playing out wide.
Clever use of initials to clarify your point, there.

Oh south london
30-08-2008, 09:39 PM
Speroni 8 - He was awsome today and pulled off some great saves he must be the best keeper in the Championship now?

Butterfield 5 - An ok performance. He did not really do anything of note.

Hills 7 - He was good on the ball and is a cracking prospect. The only thing I would say regarding Hills is that I feel he would be a better winger than a full back.

McCarthy 5 - He was ok. His distrubution was however in my eyes very poor.

Lawrence 5 - He looked worried when being run at and aswell as that his distribution was appauling. However he did battle hard and won alot in the air.


Hills 7 - He was good on the ball and is a cracking prospect. The only thing I would say regarding Hills is that I feel he would be a better winger than a full back for the future.


Hill 5 - An ok performance. He is not anywhere near the level he was playing at last season.

Oster 7 - I thought he played really well. He is granted not the quickest but his passing is good and he really can whip in some nice balls. We also must remember that Oster played a very nice ball into Lee which almost lead to a goal. I think he will prove to be a good player for us however I do not think he should start week in week out.

Carle 9 - An immense performance from Carle he was simply sublime. He today looked a cut above everyone on the pitch ( including Reading players). He got us moving, he ran at Reading players, he played good balls, he performed some audacious skill in the first half before dinking a cracking ball in for Soares. Carle to me will prove to be a very good signing providing we actually play good passing football.

Soares 8 - It is imperative that we keep hold of Soares. Soares now is really coming of age and will be a good player for us this season. Soares today proved that he has what it takes to be a top Championship player and him and Carle compliment each other well.

Derry 6 - He was quite good today. He made some good challenges and tracked back well. Also I was very suprised to see him chasing back a Reading player with such pace which I did not know he possesed.

Andrew 8 - Won loads in the air, looked good with the ball on the deck, was not afraid to take on players and also played some cracking passes. Andrew could well turn out to be the bargin of the season. At a poultry 80K he looks to be a very, very good signing.

Subs.

Scannell 5 - Not much time to do anything.

Fletcher 4 - Did not really do anything when he came on and made a mistake or two.

Lee 7 - Played really well. He held the ball up well and also jinxed past a few Reading player. On top of this he got himself an assist. A great signing made my Warnock in my opinion.

Manager.

Warnock did well. The only decision he made which fustrated me was the fact that he brought Fletcher on when Moses should have came on seeing as we were supposed to be going for broke and searching for an equliser.

Other.

Fans 6 - Good numbers brought. We sounded loud on the way to the ground but inside the ground we were ok. However he Reading stewards were very strict and that could have effect standing numbers and noise some what.

kolinkins
30-08-2008, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Oh south london
Soares - ...... him and Carle compliment each other well.



That cant be true. BBS experts have said they CANNOT play together.

Walter Wort
30-08-2008, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by rhiannapaul
how can conceding 4 goals be good ! to a team that are not very good
we are in trouble big time
I was about to post similar sentiments. To find positives in an apparently dreadful defensive performance and a thumping defeat shows just how low we have sunk.

pauldrulez
30-08-2008, 09:48 PM
Oh south london, You missed out Butts.

Stuff the defence, we scored finally.

I thought the attacking 5 done reasonably well with the service they are provided from the back and Hills struggled at LB with an injury which is why they were attacking him hard in the 2nd half.

pistol
30-08-2008, 09:55 PM
Just got back via a few drinking establishments.Best game so far, get the right strikers and i think we might do something!

Gooders
30-08-2008, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Walter Wort
I was about to post similar sentiments. To find positives in an apparently dreadful defensive performance and a thumping defeat shows just how low we have sunk.

It wasn't dreadful, apparently or otherwise.

It wasn't a thumping defeat either. Leeds was a thumping.

We won't be threatening the promotion places this season, but we'll be ok.

orp pisshead1
30-08-2008, 10:02 PM
Thought carle and andrews did very well soares was ok as was mcCarthy, pass of the match from andrews. We played attractive on the floor football for first hour then it went tits up bit like organisation for buses after game(:

Nuts
30-08-2008, 10:04 PM
Can someone please explain NW substitutions? How do you replace a CB with a CF, no wonder the defence was all over the place. WHy have Ertl on the bench if you don't use him in such circumstances? We weren't chasing the game then but when we were we replace Derry for Fletcher (hardly a bold attcking move). Granted Scannell came on but why no Moses? I'm staggered no one is mentioning NW decision-making at the moment.

orp pisshead1
30-08-2008, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
That cant be true. BBS experts have said they CANNOT play together.

:D

orp pisshead1
30-08-2008, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Oh south london
Speroni 8 - He was awsome today and pulled off some great saves he must be the best keeper in the Championship now?

Butterfield 5 - An ok performance. He did not really do anything of note.

Hills 7 - He was good on the ball and is a cracking prospect. The only thing I would say regarding Hills is that I feel he would be a better winger than a full back.

McCarthy 5 - He was ok. His distrubution was however in my eyes very poor.

Lawrence 5 - He looked worried when being run at and aswell as that his distribution was appauling. However he did battle hard and won alot in the air.


Hills 7 - He was good on the ball and is a cracking prospect. The only thing I would say regarding Hills is that I feel he would be a better winger than a full back for the future.


Hill 5 - An ok performance. He is not anywhere near the level he was playing at last season.

Oster 7 - I thought he played really well. He is granted not the quickest but his passing is good and he really can whip in some nice balls. We also must remember that Oster played a very nice ball into Lee which almost lead to a goal. I think he will prove to be a good player for us however I do not think he should start week in week out.

Carle 9 - An immense performance from Carle he was simply sublime. He today looked a cut above everyone on the pitch ( including Reading players). He got us moving, he ran at Reading players, he played good balls, he performed some audacious skill in the first half before dinking a cracking ball in for Soares. Carle to me will prove to be a very good signing providing we actually play good passing football.

Soares 8 - It is imperative that we keep hold of Soares. Soares now is really coming of age and will be a good player for us this season. Soares today proved that he has what it takes to be a top Championship player and him and Carle compliment each other well.

Derry 6 - He was quite good today. He made some good challenges and tracked back well. Also I was very suprised to see him chasing back a Reading player with such pace which I did not know he possesed.

Andrew 8 - Won loads in the air, looked good with the ball on the deck, was not afraid to take on players and also played some cracking passes. Andrew could well turn out to be the bargin of the season. At a poultry 80K he looks to be a very, very good signing.

Subs.

Scannell 5 - Not much time to do anything.

Fletcher 4 - Did not really do anything when he came on and made a mistake or two.

Lee 7 - Played really well. He held the ball up well and also jinxed past a few Reading player. On top of this he got himself an assist. A great signing made my Warnock in my opinion.

Manager.

Warnock did well. The only decision he made which fustrated me was the fact that he brought Fletcher on when Moses should have came on seeing as we were supposed to be going for broke and searching for an equliser.

Other.

Fans 6 - Good numbers brought. We sounded loud on the way to the ground but inside the ground we were ok. However he Reading stewards were very strict and that could have effect standing numbers and noise some what.

Hills was a winger/wide left first half.
Thought the support was top rate in terms of numbers and vocally given the recent run of results.

pistol
30-08-2008, 10:10 PM
Make you right mate,you saw the same game as me,and thefvuck up of buses, anyway we had a good day out.

orp pisshead1
30-08-2008, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by pistol
Make you right mate,you saw the same game as me,and thefvuck up of buses, anyway we had a good day out.

:p

steve hail
30-08-2008, 10:44 PM
I said Nick Carle would be one of CPFC's best ever midfield players when he signed. He has such skill. Well done Nick. Let's hope for lots more performances like that one, and future legendary status (if he stays long enough). Just pick the team and the system around him.

glaziers fan
30-08-2008, 10:57 PM
Pleased to see nicky carle doing so well. Knew he would be class. £1m. What a bargain.

Also pleased that NW has again criticised the defending, cos it means Lawrence culpable again. He'll surely be dropped now :) Will be good to see Fonte

Calvin Andrew and Alan Lee performances sound good.

Scannell return is pleasing.

Keep Watson and I think we've got a fantastic squad to challenge for promotion.

Hedgehog
30-08-2008, 11:46 PM
So was it "Just like watching Brazil"?

TurkeyTwizzler
31-08-2008, 12:03 AM
Derry was utter toss today. Completly disinterested and no way for a
captain to lead his team.

Everyone else not too bad.

Things looking up.

Night. X.

macstar
31-08-2008, 12:48 AM
Lee Hills not 100% fit, dont write him off as a left-mid.

saul1664
31-08-2008, 01:02 AM
These are my thoughts (no ratings).

To be fair, we battered them first half, they weren't in it, dominated midfield passing well across the middle, but when we went to play the ball there was no-one to pass to so the ball tended to go back most of the time and we didn't threaten.

Reading took the lead against the run of play, a good shot which Speroni parried but they had a player following in who scored, which we can't do at the moment. A bizarre handball gave us a equaliser.

Reading came out well second half and we were losing the game until we scored, if we had held the ball for 5 or 6 minutes we would have won the game, but didn't defend from 3 corners. The first one was completely mishit a minute after we scored, the ball looped high up and Doyle unmarked put it in, not learning from that, he did the same one minute later and in the 89th minute. The annoying thing was he didn't make any runs, he didn't lose his marker, he was static for all 3 goals but no one marked him. Very poor.

Carle is quality, if we had a decent front man we would have easily won this game, too early to judge Lee, he came on while we were under the cosh a bit, the defensive change after half time appeared to unsettle us but no excuse for the way we defended, its 8 goals in 2 games and it needs to stop, hopefully get a pacey striker in after the transfer deadline.

thewill
31-08-2008, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by saul1664
hopefully get a pacey striker in after the transfer deadline.

eh?

smurphy
31-08-2008, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by thewill
eh?

Be fair the fella puts the effort in and you know what he means, its past 2 am. I am in awe that I can read any of his post or that my post is even the right reply to your post in the tech forum.

I love Linkin Park and I'm 40, see wrong forum

:p

cj_saunders
31-08-2008, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by thewill
eh?

could be a hint a collins john, as he is going to play for fulham res on wednesday, Warnock wanted to see him in action before making his mind up on him,

cpfc4evandeva
31-08-2008, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by Hedgehog
So was it "Just like watching Brazil"?

That did get sung at one point. In the first half Carle beat one (maybe two) player/s and then hit a Ronaldoesque cross. The one where you hit it with you wrong foot.

Penstone Eagle
31-08-2008, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by saul1664
These are my thoughts (no ratings).

To be fair, we battered them first half, they weren't in it, dominated midfield passing well across the middle,



Really, I must have been at a different game then

TheCharmer
31-08-2008, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by macstar
Lee Hills not 100% fit, dont write him off as a left-mid.

So playing him ahead of Moses makes even less sense

917L
31-08-2008, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
So what happened with him ? I got the impression the problem was with Reading in general not just one individual (although he stressed how much he likes Steve Coppell)

Big touchline bust up during their Premiership game at Reading

Hunt accused of two footed lunge, Gillespie sent off a minute after coming on for elbowing? Hunt. both benches involved physically. Downes at the forefront of the aggro

Gooders
31-08-2008, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by Penstone Eagle
Really, I must have been at a different game then

Well, "battered" was putting it a bit strong but we all thought we had the better of the first half and played some good football.

Most of the people following the game on-line would have felt a good deal happier if they'd seen how we played live. It really wasn't too bad, apart from the poor defending of set pieces.

sw16girl
31-08-2008, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by eagle101
:rolleyes:

Reading fans are pissed off with Madejski and they want him to sell up because they feel he's not investing in the team, and I believe we've spent more than Reading this season. JAT.

But a proportion of fans always want money money money - what a club needs is good management - and JM has consistently provided that. Just because the fans are fed up means nothing.

Reading have just been relegated and are hardly going to spend - they have done that over the last couple of seasons - we have spent out less than we have received from transfer every season since being relegated (until now and the transfer window is not ended so) so that is what you would expect.

Sounds like the scoreline was about fair but there were some positive individual performances - something seems to have stopped gelling for the team atm - that is what needs to be sorted out.

SE25Eagle
31-08-2008, 07:50 AM
speroni 8
hill 6
McCarthy 7
lawrence 5
butts 2 same old shit, get it and hooth it.

hills 5 seemed to be lost for most of the game
derry 7
carle 9
soares 8
oster 7
andrew 10 Run his heart out, already looks twice the player of Scowcroft, could turn out a great signing for 40k.

subs lee 7 looks strong and i reckon he'll do well.
scannel 4
fletch 4

RednBlue
31-08-2008, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by saul1664
These are my thoughts (no ratings).

To be fair, we battered them first half, they weren't in it, dominated midfield passing well across the middle, but when we went to play the ball there was no-one to pass to so the ball tended to go back most of the time and we didn't threaten.

Reading took the lead against the run of play, a good shot which Speroni parried but they had a player following in who scored, which we can't do at the moment. A bizarre handball gave us a equaliser.

Reading came out well second half and we were losing the game until we scored, if we had held the ball for 5 or 6 minutes we would have won the game, but didn't defend from 3 corners. The first one was completely mishit a minute after we scored, the ball looped high up and Doyle unmarked put it in, not learning from that, he did the same one minute later and in the 89th minute. The annoying thing was he didn't make any runs, he didn't lose his marker, he was static for all 3 goals but no one marked him. Very poor.

Carle is quality, if we had a decent front man we would have easily won this game, too early to judge Lee, he came on while we were under the cosh a bit, the defensive change after half time appeared to unsettle us but no excuse for the way we defended, its 8 goals in 2 games and it needs to stop, hopefully get a pacey striker in after the transfer deadline. Pretty fair summary although I wouldn't say we 'battered' them first half. Reading are a good side and we were pretty much matching them with Nicky Carle in particular, and Calvin Andrew causing them problems. When our equaliser came it was deserved, as was our second to go in front. Unfortunately the loss of Paddy upset our balance and Lawrence's shortcomings at the back were exposed.
Good points: Nicky Carle, Calvin Andrew, Danny Butts (first half), Julian - another world class save, Alan Lee already looking more mobile and useful than Scowie despite not knowing his team-mates names. Tom Soares more visible than usual and scoring a goal too Bad points: Lawrence (sorry - very limitied); Derry (please don't get rid of Fletch - we're going to need him); the linesman - make an appointment at Specsavers today!. Our best performance so far and the 4-2 score doesn't reflect how close the game was.

RednBlue
31-08-2008, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by SE25Eagle

butts 2 same old shit, get it and hooth it.
Were you there? One of our best players in the first half.

Freddy Kurz
31-08-2008, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
Well, "battered" was putting it a bit strong but we all thought we had the better of the first half and played some good football.

Most of the people following the game on-line would have felt a good deal happier if they'd seen how we played live. It really wasn't too bad, apart from the poor defending of set pieces.

Think your assessment may be nearer the truth Gooders. Statistics
published after the game showed that Reading just shaded possession by 51% to 49%.

Penstone Eagle
31-08-2008, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by RednBlue
Were you there? One of our best players in the first half.

I was there, he was poor and looked as naive as Hills, got turned every which way.

Palace Don
31-08-2008, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by Sambuccy
Defence was SHOCKING from set pieces. All three of Doyles goals were so simple it was unbelievable.

Players that stood out were Carle and Andrew who looked twice the player of Scowcroft on that performance.

I'd be happy to never see Lawrence in a Palace shirt again. Fonte needs to play. Oster also looked poor.

Lawrence was awful, and Doyle scored all three of his goals from more or less exactly the same spot. Couldnt blame Speroni for any of them as most of the times he was covering the defenders who didnt communicate and were left with egg on their faces.

Derry was poor. Well impressed with Carle and linked up well with Lee when he came on. He (Carle seems to be ideas beyond most of the midfield and forward line.) We did look more balanced up front with Lee there who is much more comfortable on the ground than Scowcroft.

Andrew was very good too, he is getting better

Nelson Muntz
31-08-2008, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Freddy Kurz
Think your assessment may be nearer the truth Gooders. Statistics
published after the game showed that Reading just shaded possession by 51% to 49%.
Sadly they also shaded the goals by 4 to 2.

Palace Don
31-08-2008, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by Nelson Muntz
Sadly they also shaded the goals by 4 to 2.

Yeah 3 of those were such poor goals to let in, tap ins with defenders just watching Doyle. Easiest hat trick a striker will ever get in my opinion

Owngoal
31-08-2008, 08:20 AM
Ratings from the People seem pretty bizarre from what has been said (no mark for Hill), Lawrence one of the better players and McCarthy not.We seem to be in two camps on Lee Hills in our marks as well. The touchline bustup referred to in the past was because Warnock was thought to have made a signal seen by Downs to stamp on the player!

Crystal Palace: Speroni 6 - Butterfield 6, McCarthy 5 (Lee, 46mins, 7), Hill, Lawrence 7 - Hills 7, Oster 6 (Scannell, 77mins), Soares 5, Derry 5 - *CARLE 8, Andrew 7.

Palace Don
31-08-2008, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by RednBlue
Pretty fair summary although I wouldn't say we 'battered' them first half. Reading are a good side and we were pretty much matching them with Nicky Carle in particular, and Calvin Andrew causing them problems. When our equaliser came it was deserved, as was our second to go in front. Unfortunately the loss of Paddy upset our balance and Lawrence's shortcomings at the back were exposed.
Good points: Nicky Carle, Calvin Andrew, Danny Butts (first half), Julian - another world class save, Alan Lee already looking more mobile and useful than Scowie despite not knowing his team-mates names. Tom Soares more visible than usual and scoring a goal too Bad points: Lawrence (sorry - very limitied); Derry (please don't get rid of Fletch - we're going to need him); the linesman - make an appointment at Specsavers today!. Our best performance so far and the 4-2 score doesn't reflect how close the game was.

Spot on, exactly how I saw it. Was good to see Fletcher come on. Thought Oster should have been subbed earlier

Palace Don
31-08-2008, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by Oh south london


Scannell 5 - Not much time to do anything.

Manager.

Warnock did well. The only decision he made which fustrated me was the fact that he brought Fletcher on when Moses should have came on seeing as we were supposed to be going for broke and searching for an equliser.

Other.

Fans 6 - Good numbers brought. We sounded loud on the way to the ground but inside the ground we were ok. However he Reading stewards were very strict and that could have effect standing numbers and noise some what.

A bit tough on Scannell I think. I dont think he really got much of the ball from midfield when he came on. Thats why Derry went off for Fletch. I think Soares needs to do more off the ball work when Carle has the ball, as alot of the time, Carle is struggling to find a player in good position to pass to?

Also thought fans were very positive. Lovely ground, superb views

Nigelbrag
31-08-2008, 08:25 AM
I am very tempted to be critical of the team after a 4 goal defeat, but after a far improved team performance with a lot of plus factors, i do feel that with some hard work on the training pitch, with this break coming up NW and his coaches must get over to the players the importance in keeping concentration when defending. And hopefully with the addition of possibly 2/3 players the squad will be strong enough to cope with the trying times ahead.

Palace Don
31-08-2008, 08:27 AM
Yes we could and should have gone on to win the game, but lost concentration twice in 2 minutes after we scored and it was all over. We tried to vary our passing nicely though, and Reading are an excellent team when they break. Typical Coppell type side. Out and out wingers complimented by goal poacher.

SE25Eagle
31-08-2008, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by RednBlue
Were you there? One of our best players in the first half.

Yes i was there, and you need to learn a tad about football if you think that.

FromSelhurst
31-08-2008, 08:54 AM
from the brief highlights.

hills' attempted tracking and tackling off rosenior and kebe looked pretty shocking. from that i can see why he's not being risked at left back.

Lewes Eagle
31-08-2008, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by FromSelhurst
from the brief highlights.

hills' attempted tracking and tackling off rosenior and kebe looked pretty shocking. from that i can see why he's not being risked at left back.

To be fair it may take a few games for him to get back to full fitness.

Gooders
31-08-2008, 09:05 AM
Hills was like a rabbit in the headlights too often. I don't think he's ready, personally.

Having watched the highlights this morning, Derry and Lawrence both hugely culpable for their second and third goals. Maybe Speroni too, although he backed away from one cross because a Palace player had sent a Reading player flying in his direction.

Still, not sure whether that ball went out before their second goal; thought their disallowed goal was a bit of a harsh decision - the ref presumably thought their player was backing in; Doyle may have been off-side for their third goal - he was beyond Speroni and there was only one defender on the goal line.

Oh and that was a fantastic cross by Lee for our second goal.

Still happy this morning - we were much better yesterday.

macstar
31-08-2008, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Owngoal

Crystal Palace: Speroni 6 - Butterfield 6, McCarthy 5 (Lee, 46mins, 7), Hill, Lawrence 7 - Hills 7, Oster 6 (Scannell, 77mins), Soares 5, Derry 5 - *CARLE 8, Andrew 7.

from wot i saw on the telly this morning, theres NO way lawrence deserves a 7.

Walter Wort
31-08-2008, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
It wasn't dreadful, apparently or otherwise.

It wasn't a thumping defeat either. Leeds was a thumping.

We won't be threatening the promotion places this season, but we'll be ok.
A fair reply, and as I wasn't at the game I can only go by what Warnock said. He reckoned we could have conceded 10.

Owngoal
31-08-2008, 09:11 AM
Thats not my ratings but the peoples!

Palace_Man23
31-08-2008, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by macstar
from wot i saw on the telly this morning, theres NO way lawrence deserves a 7.

How can you judge by a 5 minute long peice of footage. Stop continuing to make an arse of yourself.

glaziers fan
31-08-2008, 09:16 AM
Poor defending from Hill, Hills and Lawrence.

But let's not be too disheartened. That was like playing against a Prem side away from home. We know Fonte is our only defender who would be good enough for that division.

Swansea is a big game in 2 weeks. Hopefully we can get players fit for then. A good time to have the international break.

macstar
31-08-2008, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Owngoal
Thats not my ratings but the peoples!

sorry mate!!:p

the digger
31-08-2008, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by FromSelhurst
from the brief highlights.

hills' attempted tracking and tackling off rosenior and kebe looked pretty shocking. from that i can see why he's not being risked at left back.

That's how it looked to me, but 2 points:

- He has been out a long time and is lacking match fitness.
- Playing this system makes us very narrow going forward, and exposed on the flanks defending, with few outlet passes. It's no wonder that our full backs have come in for criticism so far this season for their defending and attacking.

macstar
31-08-2008, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Palace_Man23
How can you judge by a 5 minute long peice of footage. Stop continuing to make an arse of yourself.

wots your problem? 2 or 3 of the goals conceded he was blatantly involved in, you dont deserve a '7' if that occurs.

Okay?:grrr:

hillhills
31-08-2008, 09:27 AM
The TV coverage certainly didn't do us justice. Clearly defending from corners was shocking but we had much more of the ball than ITV would have us believe, esp Derry in the first half.

Lawrence woeful, Hill at fault for one goal; Hills needs a run in the team as he showed promise going forward. Carle & Andrew impressed too.

Don't panic! It's nearly good now....

Purley King
31-08-2008, 09:35 AM
Thought we played really well for the first 60 minutes, moved the ball around and were the equal of an excellent Reading team. The first time this season our midfield played as a unit. Carle was superb, and we moved the ball around like we did at the end of last season. Am very worried about the defence though, not much pace and we couldn't cope with the pace of their attacks. Last season, we managed to cope with pace by reading the game and stopping attacks before they started but in all trust we could have conceded many more goals yesterday. However, am much more confident after yesterday.

pauldrulez
31-08-2008, 09:47 AM
As has been mentioned, for the goals, Hills has been out injured for a long time and took a knock in the 2nd half, he battled well but it all caught up with him.

macstar
31-08-2008, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by pauldrulez
As has been mentioned, for the goals, Hills has been out injured for a long time and took a knock in the 2nd half, he battled well but it all caught up with him.

this might be a bit of poor management then, really. to play a youngster, who has been out for a while in a game like this!!

moses shoulda started, maybe.

Away
31-08-2008, 10:12 AM
Missed the highlights, but from where I was sitting, Hills looked to easy at left back.

Speroni's fingertip save was jaw-dropping.

Carle is a true playmaker and I liked what Andrew was doing. Keep playing him and Lee and they will produce.

The Gerry Queen
31-08-2008, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by RednBlue
Pretty fair summary although I wouldn't say we 'battered' them first half. Reading are a good side and we were pretty much matching them with Nicky Carle in particular, and Calvin Andrew causing them problems. When our equaliser came it was deserved, as was our second to go in front. Unfortunately the loss of Paddy upset our balance and Lawrence's shortcomings at the back were exposed.
Good points: Nicky Carle, Calvin Andrew, Danny Butts (first half), Julian - another world class save, Alan Lee already looking more mobile and useful than Scowie despite not knowing his team-mates names. Tom Soares more visible than usual and scoring a goal too Bad points: Lawrence (sorry - very limitied); Derry (please don't get rid of Fletch - we're going to need him); the linesman - make an appointment at Specsavers today!. Our best performance so far and the 4-2 score doesn't reflect how close the game was.

That is exactly how I saw it. We were sat right behind the goal and my mate said as the teams came out for the second half that Doyle had been anonymous and out of it. I said don't say that as McCarthy's off and he'll probably get a hat trick now that Lawrence is marking him.

I hate being right. We were so close to it, it felt personal !

Still an improved overall performance minus defending set pieces and Carle was immense. This could still be a good season if we make a couple more good signings.

passenger
31-08-2008, 10:25 AM
gutted at the score line, but i think we can take a lot of pluses out of this, Reading where a prem team at home and we had been awful up until yesterday, as long as we can work on this performance and go forward and get winning, we could in for a good season i still think oster will come trough in the end.

jhc
31-08-2008, 11:24 AM
I'm really glad people on here seem to be happy with an 'improved ' performance. Sadly many appear not to have seen the game that I saw yesterday.

Yes we passed the ball about better and we had a fair amount of possession. However......

Reading could have been out of sight in the first half if they had taken their chances.
We didn't create a worthwhile opportunity of any note in the first half despite that possession.
Yes we got the penalty, but if that decision had have been given against us, I wouldn't have been too pleased. SC complained madly about it after the game, and I don't blame him.
Reading constantly put in cross after cross into our box and created far more. We just didn't look dangerous.
When we went in front they just upped a gear and overran us.
The defending in the second half was the worst I have seen from a Palace team in the last couple of years.
Lee Hills was stripped time and again down the left hand side but he's only young and will learn.
No, I blame the rest of the back four. With the experienced players that we had there, they should hold their heads in shame. It was not a good day.
This game is not about possession, it's about creating chances and scoring goals. Reading seemed to know that better than us.

I don't think their players were much better than ours, but they worked harder and wanted it more. When they were a goal down, their players responded. When we were down, there was too little belief that we could claw our way back.

The fans, and they turned out in numbers, deserved better than that.

I think some of the comments on here have been very charitable in all honesty.

I'm not at all happy with what I've seen this season. Maybe the demands & expectations are not high enough. I didn't see the players playing as if their lives depended on it yesterday, and that's what we're going to need if we're going to get out of this predicament.

Don't kid yourself that we 'will produce'. We might, but not without a lot of hard work.

Major investment is needed or this will be a hard season to stomach.
I don't think I'm being a pessimist but I'm looking at us realistically compared to what I've seen from the other teams in the Championship this season.

Psychokiller
31-08-2008, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Andy08



Spare a thought for my 4 sons who are going to get ripped big time over this result as we live in Reading!



Four sons at 15 years old? Are you from New Addington by any chance?

917L
31-08-2008, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by jhc
.
Yes we got the penalty, but if that decision had have been given against us, I wouldn't have been too pleased. SC complained madly about it after the game, and I don't blame him.

It was a clear cut penalty

BLOCK B BILL
31-08-2008, 12:11 PM
palace team better than normal,an improvement must be said,shocking defending ,but palace fans were awesome,it was a great atmosphere,i took a mate for the first time and he was blown away with it all,bring on the swansea........

Al From Bromley
31-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by jhc
I'm really glad people on here seem to be happy with an 'improved ' performance. Sadly many appear not to have seen the game that I saw yesterday.

Yes we passed the ball about better and we had a fair amount of possession. However......

Reading could have been out of sight in the first half if they had taken their chances.
We didn't create a worthwhile opportunity of any note in the first half despite that possession.
Yes we got the penalty, but if that decision had have been given against us, I wouldn't have been too pleased. SC complained madly about it after the game, and I don't blame him.
Reading constantly put in cross after cross into our box and created far more. We just didn't look dangerous.
When we went in front they just upped a gear and overran us.
The defending in the second half was the worst I have seen from a Palace team in the last couple of years.
Lee Hills was stripped time and again down the left hand side but he's only young and will learn.
No, I blame the rest of the back four. With the experienced players that we had there, they should hold their heads in shame. It was not a good day.
This game is not about possession, it's about creating chances and scoring goals. Reading seemed to know that better than us.

I don't think their players were much better than ours, but they worked harder and wanted it more. When they were a goal down, their players responded. When we were down, there was too little belief that we could claw our way back.

The fans, and they turned out in numbers, deserved better than that.

I think some of the comments on here have been very charitable in all honesty.

I'm not at all happy with what I've seen this season. Maybe the demands & expectations are not high enough. I didn't see the players playing as if their lives depended on it yesterday, and that's what we're going to need if we're going to get out of this predicament.

Don't kid yourself that we 'will produce'. We might, but not without a lot of hard work.

Major investment is needed or this will be a hard season to stomach.
I don't think I'm being a pessimist but I'm looking at us realistically compared to what I've seen from the other teams in the Championship this season.

Good post. To be honest, I don't think I have ever read so many 'plusses' when a Palace side has conceded four. It amazes me how can anyone take so much good out of such a result. Maybe jhc is right, maybe the demands & expectations of the fans are not high enough. What exactly ARE people's expectations this season?

kolinkins
31-08-2008, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
Good post. To be honest, I don't think I have ever read so many 'plusses' when a Palace side has conceded four. It amazes me how can anyone take so much good out of such a result. Maybe jhc is right, maybe the demands & expectations of the fans are not high enough. What exactly ARE people's expectations this season?

I didnt go, so I cannot say a post which is positive is a "good post"

So how can someone else who didnt go call a BBSers assessment of the game a "good post"?

pauldrulez
31-08-2008, 12:29 PM
Yes, we let in 4, but as said the defence was not the positive, the fact that we could attack is the positive.

We could have had more goals. Andrew committed in any position. Carle and Soares put in their beset performances of the season. Oster tried hard with little effect due to rarely being given the ball. Hills had the ball alot but needs to learn a few skills to beat the man as he has a good crossing foot on him.

However, without Jules, it could have been 8 or 9 easily and that is due to the injury to Paddy and yet again Lawrence showing why he should not be in the team and Clint looking rusty as a CB.
Derry was ineffective and Watson will be in or should be in if he is still here for the next home game. Fletch should be given a chance as well now as Derry has shown bugger all and did naff all to support the defence which was a man down.

Jose, Watto and Moses in for the next game. Andrew should start alongside Lee if we go 4-4-2 however.

Hampshire Hog
31-08-2008, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Billyd
How are people giving Oster and Lawrence 4's or 5's is unbeliveable. Think a 3 would be generous

This was my first match of the season due to badly timed holidays but I was shocked at just how bad Derry was. jHow anyone could give him more than a 3 is beyond me. He was awful, as was Lawrence.

On the other hand Carle was the best player on the pitch, a5t least in the first half. And I don't know what we would do without Speroni.

Scroatey
31-08-2008, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
I didnt go, so I cannot say a post which is positive is a "good post"

So how can someone else who didnt go call a BBSers assessment of the game a "good post"? You are looking at it the wrong way, Al's saying that the overall jist of JHC's post he agrees with, and so do I, it's irrelevant whether you saw the actual match or not.

Who wants us to play some nice football all season yet concede 8 goals in two games? They are the facts.

That said I do think Reading and Leeds are two very good teams, I hope we start to produce against the average and rubbish teams in the division which will put us within reach of the play-offs as no doubt like last year it will remain close in terms of points right to the end.

PalaceForever
31-08-2008, 12:43 PM
Lee Hills made several good tackles on Kebe in the second half, but Kebe then tricked the ball back (he's a good player). Several times Hills was alone against Kebe and Rosenior. So cut him a little slack please.

Reading are mobile, pass very well and attack in numbers. The worst defensive combination against that would be the "two veterans" Lawrence (who was truly dire) and Hill - but it was by force of circumstance. Fonte and McCarthy would not have been in such trouble.
It's ironic that Doyle scored from corners, actually goals from open play looked more likely.
But there aren't too many Champs sides who play like Reading.

Carle had a great game and Soares and Andrew looked good.
When Lee came on, he just established that threat/presence around the middle of the area that every team needs and Palace have been lacking. Good interplay with Andew and (a fading) Carle too.

People at the game are content because they can see a big improvement to our attacking play. The defence needs (lots) of work, but we know these players and the injured Fonte/McCarthy can do much better.

Derry is a big worry though. He is still off-form and half a yard too slow - special training regime required ? He is a big part of our game and we need him at 100% and soon.

Nth Kent Eagle
31-08-2008, 01:19 PM
At the start of the season most people would have predicted that reading would be there or there abouts. When they read out the teamsheets it was obvious that they have a quality side at this level. IMHO Doyle is the best player in this division (not counting Birmingham as I have not seen them recently).

Yet, Palace shaded it in the first half with some quality passing football. It was disappointing the way we faded in the scond half and we obviously have much work to do at the back, although I don't think we will play a better team this year.

Very impressed with Carle, a good game by Tom Soares and well done to the promising looking Calvin Andrew.

Penstone Eagle
31-08-2008, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by jhc
I'm really glad people on here seem to be happy with an 'improved ' performance. Sadly many appear not to have seen the game that I saw yesterday.

Yes we passed the ball about better and we had a fair amount of possession. However......

Reading could have been out of sight in the first half if they had taken their chances.
We didn't create a worthwhile opportunity of any note in the first half despite that possession.
Yes we got the penalty, but if that decision had have been given against us, I wouldn't have been too pleased. SC complained madly about it after the game, and I don't blame him.
Reading constantly put in cross after cross into our box and created far more. We just didn't look dangerous.
When we went in front they just upped a gear and overran us.
The defending in the second half was the worst I have seen from a Palace team in the last couple of years.
Lee Hills was stripped time and again down the left hand side but he's only young and will learn.
No, I blame the rest of the back four. With the experienced players that we had there, they should hold their heads in shame. It was not a good day.
This game is not about possession, it's about creating chances and scoring goals. Reading seemed to know that better than us.

I don't think their players were much better than ours, but they worked harder and wanted it more. When they were a goal down, their players responded. When we were down, there was too little belief that we could claw our way back.

The fans, and they turned out in numbers, deserved better than that.

I think some of the comments on here have been very charitable in all honesty.

I'm not at all happy with what I've seen this season. Maybe the demands & expectations are not high enough. I didn't see the players playing as if their lives depended on it yesterday, and that's what we're going to need if we're going to get out of this predicament.

Don't kid yourself that we 'will produce'. We might, but not without a lot of hard work.

Major investment is needed or this will be a hard season to stomach.
I don't think I'm being a pessimist but I'm looking at us realistically compared to what I've seen from the other teams in the Championship this season.

Accurate post in my opinion, apart from the fact that it was a clear cut penalty

David
31-08-2008, 01:40 PM
Erm......

People are talking about positives, I fail to see any apart from 2 goals we scored.

What on Earth were we doing when Harper scored. Speroni made a great save and then no defender attempted to clear the time HArper had was a disgrace.

Reading should have had 3 before we got the penalty, once again we were saved ny Speroni.

Doyle had a free shot in the six yard box from a corner...ffs.

People talk about getting a good striker and our problems are solved, I'm afraid the problems are more deep rooted than that. The defence is bloody woeful.

As for Lee Hills, Warmcok must take a huge slice of the blame for his performance yesterday. He is playing a youngster out of position and he looked dreadful.

Sod getting in any attackers we need decent defenders asap.

Al From Bromley
31-08-2008, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Scroatey
You are looking at it the wrong way, Al's saying that the overall jist of JHC's post he agrees with, and so do I, it's irrelevant whether you saw the actual match or not.

Who wants us to play some nice football all season yet concede 8 goals in two games? They are the facts.

That said I do think Reading and Leeds are two very good teams, I hope we start to produce against the average and rubbish teams in the division which will put us within reach of the play-offs as no doubt like last year it will remain close in terms of points right to the end.

Exactly. I am amazed at how people are scrambling to take positives from a week where Palace let in eight. Frankly, it is desperate stuff IMHO. If the sum of Palace's aspirations is to keep it down to four against a relegated premiership side like Reading then it is going to be a long, hard season. As I said earlier, I thought the defence was sorted, but come up against a half decent team and look what happens. How can it possibly be positive? Is it reliant on the fact that hopefully not every week the opposition will be any good? I am struggling to see how anyone could be upbeat after such a piss poor start to the season. I think some people have started to make far too many allowances and excuses for the team.

trickyricky66
31-08-2008, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by aj4england
Fonte should have played , thats 8 goals in two games conceeded - get lawrence on the bench or out .
Isn't great that we have given Matt a 2year contract :sob: NOT

David
31-08-2008, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
Exactly. I am amazed at how people are scrambling to take positives from a week where Palace let in eight. Frankly, it is desperate stuff IMHO. If the sum of Palace's aspirations is to keep it down to four against a relegated premiership side like Reading then it is going to be a long, hard season. As I said earlier, I thought the defence was sorted, but come up against a half decent team and look what happens. How can it possibly be positive? Is it reliant on the fact that hopefully not every week the opposition will be any good? I am struggling to see how anyone could be upbeat after such a piss poor start to the season. I think some people have started to make far too many allowances and excuses for the team.

Plus no one has pointed out that despite Kevin Doyle's poor start to the season he still managed to get 3 goals. If it wasn't for the fact we had Julian Speroni we would have lost every game so far without question.

Gooders
31-08-2008, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by jhc
Reading could have been out of sight in the first half if they had taken their chances.

Slight exaggeration.


We didn't create a worthwhile opportunity of any note in the first half despite that possession.

Carle's shot that whistled just wide, anyone?


Yes we got the penalty, but if that decision had have been given against us, I wouldn't have been too pleased. SC complained madly about it after the game, and I don't blame him.

Absolute rubbish. The guy stuck his arm out sideways and the ball smacked into it - it was heading for the goal. As clear a penalty as you will see and anyone complaining about it is clearly myopic.

The better team won, but we held our own for long periods. Frankly, I'm getting a little sick of this incessant negativity. We've played 4 league games and we've lost two of them to sides that are strong at home and going well.

After what Warnock did with this mediocre squad last season he deserves a little bit longer than 3 or 4 games before the whingers and drama queens get into overdrive, don't you think?

nookiebear
31-08-2008, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Gooders


After what Warnock did with this mediocre squad last season he deserves a little bit longer than 3 or 4 games before the whingers and drama queens get into overdrive, don't you think? [/B]

Don't hold your breath. I'm astounded by how people are moaning about Warnock already.

Al From Bromley
31-08-2008, 02:15 PM
You've certainly changed your tune though Gooders. You were off down the cinema Saturday afternoons rather than watch Palace not so long ago.What's changed and why does a Warnock side need half a dozen games when the likes of Wolves and Charlton are, by comparison, flying out of the blocks? My gut feeling is that this is a very ordinary Palace squad. Why, even the defence have been found out to be very poor when up against a half decent team. I admire people putting on a brave face, but is that alll it is or is there really light at the end of the proverbial?

Al From Bromley
31-08-2008, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by nookiebear
Don't hold your breath. I'm astounded by how people are moaning about Warnock already.

You wont find a single moan about Warnock from me. I think hje is an extremely frustrated manager right now. What I think has happened is Jordan has lost a lot of interest, he is winding down financially, which means that whilst the spine of the squad has shipped out, what is shipping in, by and large, is very ordinary. Purse out of a sow's ear scenario IMHO.

RednBlue
31-08-2008, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by SE25Eagle
Yes i was there, and you need to learn a tad about football if you think that. :S: I'm certainly not going to claim I know it all...what I do know is that we all see things from different perspectives, and often we only see what we want to see. All of us.

David
31-08-2008, 02:23 PM
I doubt Warnock will be here much longer to be honest. I can't see him getting much out of this squad which is poorer than last seasons. His lack of money to spend and the fact that he was already hated by 99% of Palace fans before he came here will be factors. Taylor was a Palace hero so was afforded more time because of that, Warnock on the other hand doesn't share the same affection with the club.

It's a shame because with a few million I think he could be the man to get us up, but what can he do with limited resources. We cannot hope to compete with the likes of QPR, Bristol City, Wolves, Reading, Brumscum or even Nottingham Forest without transfer funds.

a poor performance against Swansea and I think we will hear the first real mumerings of a 'Warnock out' brigade.:(

Al From Bromley
31-08-2008, 02:26 PM
...when in all honesty, it is IMHO Jordan that is now, despite his previous best intentions, what is holding the club back. Sadly, until such time as anyone is daft enough to take over from him as chairman, I think that Warnock is going to continue to be a frustrated man and Palace a pretty poor team.

Gooders
31-08-2008, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
You've certainly changed your tune though Gooders. You were off down the cinema Saturday afternoons rather than watch Palace not so long ago.What's changed...

Err, we got rid of Taylor and hired Warnock, Al.

Honestly, this guy is getting pelters from left, right and centre because we've had a poor start. Four ••••••• games!

It's ridiculous.

Al From Bromley
31-08-2008, 02:28 PM
Yes, but read above, I don't think it;s him at all. I think his hands are tied financially. Plus, people say its only four games, but its four pretty poor games from a team that was a lot better towards the end of last season than it is now.

David
31-08-2008, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Err, we got rid of Taylor and hired Warnock, Al.

Honestly, this guy is getting pelters from left, right and centre because we've had a poor start. Four ••••••• games!

It's ridiculous.


I think he is getting pelters because of the ridiculous way he handled the Clinton Morrison affair. If Alan Lee can show that he is as good as Clinton and start poaching a few goals I'm sure the fans will forgive him a little.

Plus the treatment of Dougie hasn't gone down well at all.

David
31-08-2008, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Err, we got rid of Taylor and hired Warnock, Al.

Honestly, this guy is getting pelters from left, right and centre because we've had a poor start. Four ••••••• games!

It's ridiculous.

Also, I'm not trying to be offensive but you can hardly talk down to fans when you turned your back on the club when Taylor was in charge.

917L
31-08-2008, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by David
I think he is getting pelters because of the ridiculous way he handled the Clinton Morrison affair. If Alan Lee can show that he is as good as Clinton and start poaching a few goals I'm sure the fans will forgive him a little.

Plus the treatment of Dougie hasn't gone down well at all.


Morrison affair? we offered him a contract, he didnt sign it. end of

The majority appeared to want Dougie gone so I dont understand how that affects anything either.

David
31-08-2008, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by 917L
Morrison affair? we offered him a contract, he didnt sign it. end of

The majority appeared to want Dougie gone so I dont understand how that affects anything either.

It was made pretty clear that Morrison was told he wouldn't be first choice in the system we would be playing, so why would our top scorer feel wanted? Then we go 5 hours without scoring a goal at the start of the new season, which made the decision to say that even more baffling.


A poster on here has detailed how Dougie has been treated, i.e his squad number being taken away, training with the academy etc. Treating a legend like that leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Personally, I doubt Dougie would have much of an impact but I can't work out why he would be treated this way.

kolinkins
31-08-2008, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by nookiebear
Don't hold your breath. I'm astounded by how people are moaning about Warnock already.

There are 3 categories of BBSers who are doing this:

1 - the ones who never wanted Warnock

2 - the ones who only post when things aren't rosey (it's clear who they are) to whip up some hysteria

3 - those who change their opinions of the managers with the wind.


I could name the usual suspects in each category, but best to leave it off this thread. They might get upset.

kolinkins
31-08-2008, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Err, we got rid of Taylor and hired Warnock, Al.

Honestly, this guy is getting pelters from left, right and centre because we've had a poor start. Four ••••••• games!

It's ridiculous.

True say.

I'd give Al credit if he would post positively when things are going well. however, all he ever does is post negative claptrap just so that when things do go tits up, he can say he told us so.

kolinkins
31-08-2008, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by David
Also, I'm not trying to be offensive but you can hardly talk down to fans when you turned your back on the club when Taylor was in charge.

He didnt turn his back on the club - he was spending over £100 per dose of Taylor crap.

People moaning about Warnock 4 games in to a season and forgetting about last season are being nonsensical.

917L
31-08-2008, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by David
It was made pretty clear that Morrison was told he wouldn't be first choice in the system we would be playing, so why would our top scorer feel wanted? Then we go 5 hours without scoring a goal at the start of the new season, which made the decision to say that even more baffling.


A poster on here has detailed how Dougie has been treated, i.e his squad number being taken away, training with the academy etc. Treating a legend like that leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Personally, I doubt Dougie would have much of an impact but I can't work out why he would be treated this way.

Morrison, made a choice it was to leave the club (to not be 1st choice at Coventry)

I've spent the last 3 years defending Dougie on here, the majority were calling for him to be axed an dhad been for some time.

Neither of these issues has anything to do with teh bollocks were having to listen to on here at present.

I would say Kolinkins has it just about right in his post above

David
31-08-2008, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
True say.

I'd give Al credit if he would post positively when things are going well. however, all he ever does is post negative claptrap just so that when things do go tits up, he can say he told us so.


Al from Bromley was one of the most positive people on here when I joined - I believe he had rose tinted specs as his avatar. And because of his positiveness towards Francis et al he was ridiculed by some 'I told you' so merchants. No wonder he doesn't post like that anymore with all the hassle he got.

Al From Bromley
31-08-2008, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by David
Al from Bromley was one of the most positive people on here when I joined - I believe he had rose tinted specs as his avatar. And because of his positiveness towards Francis et al he was ridiculed by some 'I told you' so merchants. No wonder he doesn't post like that anymore with all the hassle he got.

A good spot David. Also, as I keep saying, I am not having a go at Warnock. His hands are tied IMHO. The spine of the squad has gone, Jordan is making noises about selling and thus doesn't want to pour any more money in so what you are getting is patch up jobs of players. Kolinkins always likes having his little pop at me, maybe because he doesn't know enough about the game to have a valid opinion of his own, i don't know.

All I do know is that having followed palace for 40 years, I try to be honest and constructive, never damning, and what i see before me this season is a very average squad, a frustrated manager and a chairman that has been a bit economical with the truth and now wants out. God knows I would love to say that all is rosy in the garden, but have a look at what is going on and wake up and smell that coffee people. The best Palace can hope for IMHO, is a rich benefactor to replace Jordan, sooner rather than later. In the meantime it really is going to be a case of picking the bones out of ordinary to bad performances on the pitch with the lacklustre squad that Warnoick is forced to work with.

New LP
31-08-2008, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by David


a poor performance against Swansea and I think we will hear the first real mumerings of a 'Warnock out' brigade.:(

I really hope this doesn't happen, NW is our biggest hope.

Sam Spade
31-08-2008, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
True say.

I'd give Al credit if he would post positively when things are going well. however, all he ever does is post negative claptrap just so that when things do go tits up, he can say he told us so.

Not true or fair Klinx. Al was nothing but positive about both Francis and Kember and was pilloried (by me, amongst others ) , for being so.
Note that whenever he posts when he hasn't seen the game he is never specifically critical of any players individual performance. His current view, if I understand it correctly, is that we are probably in for a long hard season. I've seen three games and have no reason to disagree at present.
The reason for so many positives from yesterday;
entertaining
competitve
played to feet with a passing game
atmosphere in the away end.
new players shaping up.

Owngoal
31-08-2008, 04:09 PM
I'd rather be third from bottom now and get things sorted than in the same position in Febrauary. Warnock is working in difficult circumstances, Lee looked good yesterday and he may offload Scowie who has turned into a player who does things one way, if it doesn't work no other option from him. The mistakes we make with contracts are giving people who are just about to go over the hill two year contracts (Dougie and Lawrence) and not getting those in their final year on new terms who can stll do a job (Morrison, Hudson). Thats why we are getting rid of Watson while we can still get some money, even though on form he is a match winner. Its just a shame that Dougie didn't take the coaching job when it was offered to him, he then might have been our next manager in a couple of years (Warnock is pretty hard despite Dougies legendary status). I'm optimistic that Warnock will do some business by tomorrow night, hopefully Yeates and another striker (not Webber, another sicknote). Didn't think we needed defensive cover with Fonte signed but an injury to McCarthy and there could be panic stations. Wiggins does not appear to feature and is not being mentioned as injured. We need to keep off players backs, Butters is doing OK but some on here seem to despise him. Hill, Lawrence and Derry all seem to be going through a rough patch together, but with a bit of a break and training surely it can't keep going like that. Swansea could be one hell of a game and the start of a run. Please............

Crunchie
31-08-2008, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by David
I doubt Warnock will be here much longer to be honest. I can't see him getting much out of this squad which is poorer than last seasons. His lack of money to spend and the fact that he was already hated by 99% of Palace fans before he came here will be factors. Taylor was a Palace hero so was afforded more time because of that, Warnock on the other hand doesn't share the same affection with the club.

It's a shame because with a few million I think he could be the man to get us up, but what can he do with limited resources. We cannot hope to compete with the likes of QPR, Bristol City, Wolves, Reading, Brumscum or even Nottingham Forest without transfer funds.

a poor performance against Swansea and I think we will hear the first real mumerings of a 'Warnock out' brigade.:(

I think the complete opposite to be honest David, to how much time we should give each manager.

Warnock has seen it and done it, and has a proven track record of relative success. We all saw what he did to Taylors team last year which was approaching the quality of when Coppell took over in 84. It was dire.

Under Jordan, managers like Bruce and Warnock i would tend to give them a longer time to get it right, because of their track record and I firmly believe he will turn it around given time

If for example we got Bryan Robson as manager, after the first 4 games we have witnessed I would already be calling for his head :) :o .

It was why I never gave Trevor Francis much hope as I just didn't think he was/is a good manager because of what he did in the past.

However having said all that Warnock will probably go if we dont go up and Simon sells out

Andy08
31-08-2008, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Psychokiller
Four sons at 15 years old? Are you from New Addington by any chance?

Ah... well spotted!
Tis the old man using sons username have to concede.... but triplet 15 yr olds and a 12 yr old are mine |I confess..... (and Hurst Green is not quite New Addington yet I think!)

glaziers fan
31-08-2008, 05:08 PM
You don't have to be at the game to see the failings. Yes, we may have looked better than on the highlights if you were there, but the defensive frailties are there for all to see.

Sadly, this persistence with Hills and Oster has to stop. Oster is a complete joke. He offers nothing - has no pace and is a journeyman. We would be better off with Djilali there.

Hills being played out of position is crazy. Although, to be fair, I didn't see Hill do anything but stand and watch, so he may as well have been playing left-back.

Clint Hill looked absolutely awful. Their disallowed goal should have stood. It is frightening to see him doing so little and to hear of Derry playing so badly. They were the 2 who propelled us last season. Both should be dropped if they can't perform soon.

Encouraging about Carle, Soares, Andrew and Lee. (plus Djilali). Once you add Scannell and Moses to the mix, and hopefully Watson, we should be ok going forward.

Hopefully Fonte will come into the back4. The performances of Speroni, Butterfield and McCarthy have been good so no reason to think we can't defend.

Overall it was an ok performance that can and should be built on.

917L
31-08-2008, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
You don't have to be at the game to see the failings. .

To have a full appreciation of the game you need to have been there, or at least seen all 90 minutes on TV.

As usual you have done neither but have a detailed opinion on every player and what they did or didnt do

Your attacks on Oster are also based on opinion rather than what youve actually seen him provide on the pitch.

Sussex Eagle
31-08-2008, 05:13 PM
Also, he's a stupid ••••.

glaziers fan
31-08-2008, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by 917L
To have a full appreciation of the game you need to have been there, or at least seen all 90 minutes on TV.

As usual you have done neither but have a detailed opinion on every player and what they did or didnt do

Your attacks on Oster are also based on opinion rather than what youve actually seen him provide on the pitch.

I've seen Oster play at Selhurst.

To have a full appreciation of the game you actually have to be there. Even watching on the tv is not the same.

I don't pretend to be able to give a comprehensive account myself, but I think that the defensive frailties that are highlighted by the tv highlights are incredibly valid.

It is also possible to give analysis from assessing other posters, many of whom are trusted after several seasons of accurate ratings and opinions.

Nelson Muntz
31-08-2008, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by David
People are talking about positives, I fail to see any apart from 2 goals we scored.
The performances of Julian Speroni, Nick Carle and Calvin Andrew are positives for a start.

Sussex Eagle
31-08-2008, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by David
Al from Bromley was one of the most positive people on here when I joined - I believe he had rose tinted specs as his avatar. And because of his positiveness towards Francis et al he was ridiculed by some 'I told you' so merchants. No wonder he doesn't post like that anymore with all the hassle he got.
In both cases (in all cases) Al was attention-seeking. Maybe it was how he really felt to some extent, but the way he posts is always an attempt to provoke a reaction - and it does work. I'm amazed at the turn this thread has taken though. I mean, it's August!

Al From Bromley
31-08-2008, 05:41 PM
The old 'attention seeking' ploy eh? Trust me, I am far too old and 'bovvered' to come on here for a bit of attention seeking. From whom and why? I just say it as I see it at the time. Can you honestly say that my suggestion that Jordan has lost interest, the squad has lost its backbone and Warnock's hands are tied financially is a million miles from the truth? Attention seeking my arse!

TurkeyTwizzler
31-08-2008, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by David
Also, I'm not trying to be offensive but you can hardly talk down to fans when you turned your back on the club when Taylor was in charge.

Looking at your profile of 'season ticket holder' this and 'following palace around the land' that.. it seems like your one of those anoraks that think they are entitled to an opinion more than somebody else simply because they put thier backside on a seat every week.

I sit there every week as well watching Palace... doesn't mean I know more about Palace than say a person living on the other side of the world... just means I havent got other things to be doing on a Saturday afternoon.

I think you'll find Gooders is one of the very few people on this site who's opinion is actually appreciated by many.

;)

ebyeeckeagle
31-08-2008, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
.. why does a Warnock side need half a dozen games when the likes of Wolves and Charlton are, by comparison, flying out of the blocks? ...

Charlton? Won 2, lost 2. You have a different definition of flying.

This thread perfectly sums up modern days 'supporters'. It's gone beyond opinion into parody.

Al From Bromley
31-08-2008, 06:07 PM
Modern day? I've been following Palace since 1966. My opinion is, compared to many other seasons, this squad and start is pretty poor. That and a chairman who wants out and a manager who isnt getting the money he neds to bring in decent players adds up to a lacklustre start. Nothing sensationalist or modern day about that, just common sense.

PeterH
31-08-2008, 06:14 PM
Steady people.

We´re a bit shit at the moment, doesn´t mean we need to be shit to each other.

Maz
31-08-2008, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by TurkeyTwizzler

I think you'll find Gooders is one of the very few people on this site who's opinion is actually appreciated by many.
Seconded.

917L
31-08-2008, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
Modern day? I've been following Palace since 1966. My opinion is, compared to many other seasons, this squad and start is pretty poor. That and a chairman who wants out and a manager who isnt getting the money he neds to bring in decent players adds up to a lacklustre start. Nothing sensationalist or modern day about that, just common sense.

With the exception of Morrison the squad is better than it was at the start of last season, and the transfer window isnt closed yet

GreatGonzo
31-08-2008, 07:04 PM
Only saw the highlights this morning but a couple of observations:

Firstly and most importantly even the couple of bits of our play they showed were far more than we have seen so far this season. Lee's setup for Soares was far more than Scowcroft has done for a long time. Reasons for hope.

On our penalty, if this weas last week and that had been given to Burnley people would have been saying it was harsh as he could not get his hand out the way and how the ref cheated us. Seen them given seen them not but i do think that it was the right decision.

However disallowing their goal? Anyone explain why? The whistle going was right but it was a penalty! So we got slightly fortunate there.

If people want to slate the ref when things do not go our way, its only fair to say when we got the breaks.

4, 10, 4, 11, 8 - that is the number of time the opposition have had shots on target against us so far this season. Last week i marked our defence down and got slated for it, well those cracks and deficiencies i said would be exposed by better attacking teams. 8 goals in 5 days! Yes we need to be concerned about buying a player to score goals and maybe Lee will prove to be that man, but those that think that is all thats required are wrong.

There is little to no leadership in the defence, McCarthy is the best we have at that and it would appear from what i have been told that him leaving the game yesterday has a seriously detrinmental effect. However we lack pace across the back 4, we lack positional judgement and we lack communication.

Now that is affecting Jules, he could and should have come for a couple of the crosses for their goals, they were in the 6 yard box and if that is not GK territory then little is. Many said losing Hudson would be a big issue and now we are seeing it. We need to find a back 4 that can work together, compliment each other and stay fit if we want to get anything like the defensive sability we had last year. Can we do that with players currently in the squad? I hope so but not sure we can.

Braders
31-08-2008, 07:16 PM
Anyone saying there wasn't any positives from yesterdays performance clearly wasn't there. Yes our defending was poor and we obviously aren't going to set the world alight this season but who do people think we are? We haven't got much money and we have an average squad, so put things into perspective ffs.

I look forward to Swansea where I trust Warnock will address the defence and give a stern talking to Derry, who was absolute shite. Apart from that, we didn't look THAT bad.

Al From Bromley
31-08-2008, 07:17 PM
"We haven't got much money and we have an average squad, so put things into perspective ffs"

Er, I think that is what I tried to say?

917L
31-08-2008, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
On our penalty, if this weas last week and that had been given to Burnley people would have been saying it was harsh as he could not get his hand out the way and how the ref cheated us. Seen them given seen them not but i do think that it was the right decision.

However disallowing their goal? Anyone explain why? The whistle going was right but it was a penalty! So we got slightly fortunate there.



Many said losing Hudson would be a big issue and now we are seeing it. We need to find a back 4 that can work together, compliment each other and stay fit if we want to get anything like the defensive sability we had last year. Can we do that with players currently in the squad? I hope so but not sure we can.

I thought it was aclear pen and wouldnt think differently were it awarded against us

I think the fould was given for backing in (making a back) Not saying I agree because it looked more like a foul by Hill to me, but the ref blew straight away and certainly well before the striker even had ashot

Against Burnley McCarthy played as well or better than Hudson ever has (IMO) yesterday his leaving the field cost us dear and it is clear that Fonte should be in the side well ahead of Lawrence.

Would also say, did you see Hudson for the clowns yeterday? looked like he would have been well at home in our defence of the last 2 games, poor

917L
31-08-2008, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
"We haven't got much money and we have an average squad, so put things into perspective ffs"

Er, I think that is what I tried to say?

We made the play offs last season didnt we?

This season the overall squad is stronger, yes its a bad start, but we can recover

Braders
31-08-2008, 07:22 PM
I wasn't referring to you Al.

David
31-08-2008, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by TurkeyTwizzler
Looking at your profile of 'season ticket holder' this and 'following palace around the land' that.. it seems like your one of those anoraks that think they are entitled to an opinion more than somebody else simply because they put thier backside on a seat every week.

I sit there every week as well watching Palace... doesn't mean I know more about Palace than say a person living on the other side of the world... just means I havent got other things to be doing on a Saturday afternoon.

I think you'll find Gooders is one of the very few people on this site who's opinion is actually appreciated by many.

;)

If I decided not to go because of one man, in this case being Peter Taylor, I would never then tell others how to support a team.

Nelson Muntz
31-08-2008, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
Many said losing Hudson would be a big issue and now we are seeing it.
We only saw it because McCarthy was injured before half time. We weren't doing too badly up to that point (1-1). McCarthy is a good enough replacement for Hudson, it's the other defender thats the problem. Lawrence is so limited. A back four of Hill, McCarthy, Fonte and Butterfield wouldn't have let in four yesterday in my opinion. There is no way Doyle would have got that sort of room if McCarthey was there.

David
31-08-2008, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Nelson Muntz
The performances of Julian Speroni, Nick Carle and Calvin Andrew are positives for a start.

But they were good against Burnley. I know we can rely on these 3 to do a job for us, I want to see other positives.

917L
31-08-2008, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by David
But they were good against Burnley. I know we can rely on these 3 to do a job for us, I want to see other positives.

McCarthy looks agood replacement for Hudson, Lee looked good in his 1st 45 minutes. We scored in the league for the 1st time this season. We played the ball on the floor, mainly. There will be more signings tomorrow etc etc

GreatGonzo
31-08-2008, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by Nelson Muntz
We only saw it because McCarthy was injured before half time. We weren't doing too badly up to that point (1-1). McCarthy is a good enough replacement for Hudson, it's the other defender thats the problem. Lawrence is so limited. A back four of Hill, McCarthy, Fonte and Butterfield wouldn't have let in four yesterday in my opinion. There is no way Doyle would have got that sort of room if McCarthey was there.

I think he needs to work on communication and understanding, there have been quite a few occasions where mistakes have been made due to lack of communication. Until that gets better he will not be as good as Hudson was last season. That is not to say he cannot become so, but is not yet IMO.

Celestial Empire
31-08-2008, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
There are 3 categories of BBSers who are doing this:

1 - the ones who never wanted Warnock

2 - the ones who only post when things aren't rosey (it's clear who they are) to whip up some hysteria

3 - those who change their opinions of the managers with the wind.


I could name the usual suspects in each category, but best to leave it off this thread. They might get upset.

There's a fourth category : people who don't attend games then base their (hysterical) opinions on the radio commentary or just the bald stats (which were quite respectable yesterday actually).

Nelson Muntz
31-08-2008, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by 917L
We played the ball on the floor, mainly. I was going to mention this. There was a distinct lack of hoofball yesterday.

elwood
31-08-2008, 07:45 PM
I thought we looked preety good,
passed the ball around well at times, and unlike some on here,
I thought oster showed glimpses of being a pretty good player and lee hills (considering he hasn't had much first team football) had a fairly solid game, and will be a very good player, as will calvin andrew.
However.......... with no strikers we will get no goals and therefore win no games, andrew seemed to be playing wide, making the formation look like 4-6-0. but with a goal scorer or two, and jose back,
i'm sure we'll be fine.

Celestial Empire
31-08-2008, 08:10 PM
Couple of other points:

IMHO, our pre-season was pretty feeble and partly accounts for our weak start.
However, I remember Harbin saying that, from July to early August is totally insufficient to get players up to peak fitness (I think he said they will need until end Sept/early Oct earliest). We have some recently injured and over-30 players, so it is entirely possible that (e.g.) Derry, will require a bit more time. NW and his staff certainly know a lot more about fitness than most of us.

A few people early in this thread said they were surprised that those attending the game had a more consistent opinion than normal. At home, people sit all over the ground and see different things, so often disagree about players performances. At Reading the entire end is for visiting supporters who have a pretty good view, but all from a similar angle.
The Doyle hatrick was in front of the Palace "Kop" so we all saw the dire defending (laughable actually), at close quarters. Believe me, that defensive performance was a one-off.

macstar
31-08-2008, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
Couple of other points:

IMHO, our pre-season was pretty feeble and partly accounts for our weak start.


agreed. why didnt we have harder oppostion...

fulham reserves and Leicester at home were a farce.

limited_edition
31-08-2008, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
There's a fourth category : people who don't attend games then base their (hysterical) opinions on the radio commentary or just the bald stats (which were quite respectable yesterday actually). 5th category. Those who have no tactical knowledge at all and therefore think any constructive criticism of tactics is tantamount to treason. I wonder why these people come on the BBS if they are so high and mighty not to mention intolerant of people with different opinions. This is a messageboard after all and as such a broad church of opinions. If I wanted to read club PR all the time, I'd read the programme or log onto the official site.

David
31-08-2008, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by limited_edition
5th category. Those who have no tactical knowledge at all and therefore think any constructive criticism of tactics is tantamount to treason. I wonder why these people come on the BBS if they are so high and mighty not to mention intolerant of people with different opinions. This is a messageboard after all and as such a broad church of opinions. If I wanted to read club PR all the time, I'd read the programme or log onto the official site.

Top post!

Icy
01-09-2008, 07:42 AM
I thought we played well for most of the game and were clearly the better team until Soares scored our second goal. Andrew and Carle were top drawer and clearly had the Reading defence worried. Speroni was class and Soares had a good game. Lee looked useful when he came on as well. Unfortunately the good work was undone by a few minutes of madness and some shite defending.

jhc
01-09-2008, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by Gooders

Absolute rubbish. The guy stuck his arm out sideways and the ball smacked into it - it was heading for the goal. As clear a penalty as you will see and anyone complaining about it is clearly myopic.

The better team won, but we held our own for long periods. Frankly, I'm getting a little sick of this incessant negativity. We've played 4 league games and we've lost two of them to sides that are strong at home and going well.

After what Warnock did with this mediocre squad last season he deserves a little bit longer than 3 or 4 games before the whingers and drama queens get into overdrive, don't you think? [/B]

The penalty was a moot point really. From a couple of yards, Harper hardly had time to move his arm out of the way did he? Hand to ball or ball to hand - I guess it's all a matter of opinion really. Intentional? Hardly, but you win a few, you lose a few over the course of a season. I still maintain I'd be disappointed if the boot was on the other foot but I wouldn't labour the point.

'incessant negativity' - well I don't think that's quite the case but people are quite rightly concerned that we are in the bottom three - I certainly am!

As for your last point, I don't honestly believe the knives are out for NW.
The problem is our inability to compete financially with some of the other clubs in this division. We lost out on a number of players before we signed Lee. I think most fans understand that NW is working with limited resources.

Despite his desire to bring in another striker I feel players will have to leave first. Today should be interesting.
Al is one of many who are concerned about Jordan's public announcement that he wants to go.

We need extra investment, and if he wants out you can't expect that he's going to put in much more of his own cash in the interim.
We need new owners to invest in the team and the stadium, which now looks well behind others in this division.
I think we'll be treading water until that happens.
The problem is there seems to be few people out there with the cash or the inclination to invest in Palace.

sydnsteve
01-09-2008, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
Err, we got rid of Taylor and hired Warnock, Al.

Honestly, this guy is getting pelters from left, right and centre because we've had a poor start. Four ••••••• games!

It's ridiculous.

There is no alternative to Warnock, nor should any one want one (and TBH I don't think anyone is suggesting it).
He over achieved last year, and has lost, or will today, 3 of the best players in the team. IMO he badly mishandled Clint, but that is his decision.
I think Lee will be a much better version of JS, and it is good to hear that Carle played well. The rest of midfield is a problem as Oster is very average, and Derry seems to have lost it. Soares sounded as if he played well, which is good, as we need him to. The defence, if FOINte and Paddy are at CB, should be ok, though we need better back up than Lawrence in case of injury.
Hopefully we can build on this.
Why did Moses not figure?

jhc
01-09-2008, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by sydnsteve

Why did Moses not figure?

Not considered to be playing well enough apparently.

sydnsteve
01-09-2008, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by jhc
Not considered to be playing well enough apparently.

That is a big worry this early in the season. At 17 he should be on fire in early games. I thought he looked very casual vs Watford, but still our best player, so I hope it is just an attempt to get him to put effort in.
This could be a possible problem, and there is no way we can hang our season on him being good enough at his age. Another striker, like Webber, is a must. But please not Stead or Easter.

Gooders
01-09-2008, 10:25 AM
I agree with both of you. When the Clinton situation developed, I assumed Warnock had a plan. If he did, it didn't work out.

But I still think that there are some totally unrealistic expectations on here.

Why should we expect Jordan to throw even more money at the team given our financial situation? Why should we be expecting to sign players on Premier League wages given that we are one of the worst supported clubs in the division? Why are we expecting the play-offs at least when nearly everyone realises that last seasons qualification was a minor miracle given what Warnock inherited?

He is saddled with some of the biggest wasters I've ever seen at Palace and he can't shift them - that's not his fault, he didn't buy them.

jhc
01-09-2008, 11:36 AM
I don't think anyone is expecting SJ to throw more money at the club, but as Chairman he has to find more investment if we are to compete at this level.
That might mean selling the club or even part of it, but we can't continue as we are.
I agree with you about the level of support and that is very worrying. We've lost 6,000 fans over the last couple of years and there has to be a marketing strategy to get them back.
I'm not sure I agree with you about the current squad, but we know they can produce better performances than we've seen so far.
The expectation is not necessarily that we should reach the play-offs (although that would be nice!) but that we should at least play to our full potential in every game.

Penstone Eagle
01-09-2008, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by jhc
Not considered to be playing well enough apparently.

Hardly suprising when playing as a left winger

mik59
01-09-2008, 12:07 PM
From a mix of ITV and a Reading mate's feedback, Lawrence really does look a liability against the classier sides and Speroni does need to command his area better but given some super saves then its hard to be too critical of Jules when our defence deserve most blame. Like a few above, I'm concerned that Ertl hasn't been given a go. He was good enough to buy and be on the bench.

I am very pleased by the good comments for Calvin Andrew as I liked him from the off. I really think he should be first choice.

limited_edition
01-09-2008, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by jhc
Not considered to be playing well enough apparently. I can understand him not starting, but when we were losing the game, I couldn't understand the nutty logic of bringing on a defensive midfielder in Fletch rather than try and chase the equaliser by putting an attacking player in Moses. :confused:

stevek
01-09-2008, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by limited_edition
I can understand him not starting, but when we were losing the game, I couldn't understand the nutty logic of bringing on a defensive midfielder in Fletch rather than try and chase the equaliser by putting an attacking player in Moses. :confused:

Because we were being completely overrun in midfield. Countless times Reading went through us with ease.

Celestial Empire
01-09-2008, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by stevek
Because we were being completely overrun in midfield. Countless times Reading went through us with ease.

Precisely, Derry was dead on his feet.

Dobbo
01-09-2008, 02:39 PM
Was pleased with the first half performance as I thought Calvin Andrew looked very useful & we passed it around & got the ball wide to Oster & Hills....but that's where it tended to break down. Commented at half time thart Sean Scannell would revel in the space down the right - so what happens ? On he comes but gets played down the middle, while Andrew gets pushed wide & loses effectiveness. Lee Hills is not yet strong enought to play left back & Hill & Lawrence (hurry back Jose) had little understanding, meaning the organisation defending at set pieces was not existent. If McCarthy hadn't gone off think we might have got something.

holmesdale69
01-09-2008, 02:42 PM
Lawrence was appualing had fonte been playing allong with moses instead of hills i think we would have won

TurkeyTwizzler
01-09-2008, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by jhc
Not considered to be playing well enough apparently.

Thinking about it...

Perhaps the reason why Moses has had little involvement so far this season is due to the transfer window?

I get the feeling that we are hoping not to draw attention to him until 12pm tonight... as a club who have supposedly put the handling of thier assets into the hands of a company who deal with businesses in the brown and sticky, it would be very difficult to justify not selling him if a substantial offer came in for him. Therefore we are getting around this by hopefully not getting that offer in the first place.

Whadd'ya think?

Sam Spade
01-09-2008, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by TurkeyTwizzler
Whadd'ya think?

Any other club who is interested has known about Moses for years.

Dobbo
01-09-2008, 03:15 PM
From Warnock's Independent column last Saturday
"I'm looking forward to Victor Moses going off to England Under-21s. He was brilliant pre-season, then went off with England and has come back and played rubbish. His form has just started to come back, so I'm hoping this time he comes back playing brilliant. But that's youngsters: they blow hot and cold."
He's been DROPPED !!