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Farnboro' Eagle
07-01-2002, 04:05 PM
Is Sam Hammam the biggest idiot in football today (not including referees!)? A lot of the trouble at the end of the dreadful Cardiff v Leeds game was caused by his parading around the side of the pitch and badgerring the Leeds fans (who are no softies it's fair to say!)? He then has the guile to claim that the Welsh whingers did nothing wrong, and basically condoned the invasion of the pitch! How he could not have seen bottles and coins thrown onto the pitch is unbelievable, and then he had the audacity to throw a journalist out of his office when he questioned him about his actions.
This man needs to be brought in front of the FA ad seriously disciplined - all of his actions from the start of the game right through to the end simply incited violence. Personally, i'd chuck Cardiff out of the FA Cup (bloody Welsh moan about the english but are more than happy to play in our compeitions!), and have Hammam banned rom owning any football club again. As for the Welsh, i would withdraw the subsidies thatt he English give them until they show a little respect and stop their inherent whinging - 20% per haed of the population extrea spent on them copmpared to the English thanks to the Barnett formula!

sydney eagle
07-01-2002, 04:10 PM
I just read that on the skysports site and he also said that O'Leary was aggressive and lucky he "stopped short:rolleyes: " fecking w@nker

Kevin T
07-01-2002, 04:11 PM
Did he not famously travel on a coach with Cardiff's Soul Crew to one of their matches last season and ply them with free champagne?

Pistike
07-01-2002, 04:13 PM
I dont know Kevin, did he not?

g23
07-01-2002, 04:18 PM
But it was fair enough when Malcolm Allison did it?

Cleon
07-01-2002, 04:20 PM
Personally, and I admit I consider Cardiff a kind of 'second team', I think there has been a massive over-reaction to the post match celebrations in Cardiff.

Leeds fans, as we all know, are amongst the mouthiest out there. Last time they were in Turkey they chose to wipe their backsides with the Turkish flag and abuse the local women. I'm not saying that they are any worse than some of the nutters at Cardiff (and they have their fair share of nutters), but imagine they will not have shirked from giving abuse to the 'sheep shagging Welsh'.

Cardiff produced one of their greatest displays in the last fifty years, causing a mass pitch invasion - same thing happens all the time. There was no real violence - the figure of only four arrests (reported in the Metro this morning) tells that story.

Sam Hammann is just doing what he does best - wind up the support (both for Cardiff and the opposition). Fair play to him - the noise coming though my radio was deafening. I just wish someone could bring that noise back to the Palace.

The media's over-reaction is again caused by their need for a story. Four arrests? Compare what happened at Ninian Park to what happens in Serie A & B every week.

Benzhiyi
07-01-2002, 04:23 PM
I actually quite like Sam Hammam, and was delighted Cardiff won.

However, his actions yesterday were nothing short of incredulous. Why he had to stand behind the goal I do not know, yes it's his club but it's hardly leading by example - isn't encroachment banned at all clubs?

And to try and justify the fans behaviour is even more insane. I dislike Leeds immensely, in particular Bowyer, but for any player to be attacked for whatever reason while on or leaving a football pitch is seriously frightening.

The atmosphere at the game sounded superb. What a shame that it got out of hand, and that Hammam actually tried to justify it. :(

Farnboro' Eagle
07-01-2002, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Cleon


Sam Hammann is just doing what he does best - wind up the support (both for Cardiff and the opposition). Fair play to him - the noise coming though my radio was deafening. I just wish someone could bring that noise back to the Palace.

The media's over-reaction is again caused by their need for a story. Four arrests? Compare what happened at Ninian Park to what happens in Serie A & B every week.

Doesn't justify it though, does it? you simply cannot let people stream onto the pitch, and by all accounts plyers were punched and spat at durign the invasion. If teams cannot guarentee the safety of the players and other fans, than either fences ahve to be re-errected to prevent invasions, or games ahev to eb played behind closed doors.
As I read in the Tims today - Premiership atmosphere has been scrificed in the name of safety, and although I love a good atmosphere, I would rather feel safe at a game, and if safety is goiong to be questioned, then a Hillsborough is once again in the offing.

Kevin T
07-01-2002, 04:26 PM
Excuse my ignorance but what actually happened? I didn't see anything unsavoury on TV in the pub.

Chocky
07-01-2002, 04:26 PM
Ah Sam Hammamm and the good ol Crazy Gang eh, what cards they were. Burning each other's properties, trashing each other's cars, ha ha, they just loved a wheeze didn't they, I bet they even stayed up past midnight sometimes as well.

Gooders
07-01-2002, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Farnboro' Eagle
Is Sam Hammam the biggest idiot in football today (not including referees!)?

Ken Bates
Steve Bruce
Ron Atkinson
Glen Hoddle

...would all get my vote before Sam Hammam.

Cleon
07-01-2002, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Farnboro' Eagle
Doesn't justify it though, does it? you simply cannot let people stream onto the pitch, and by all accounts plyers were punched and spat at durign the invasion. If teams cannot guarentee the safety of the players and other fans, than either fences ahve to be re-errected to prevent invasions, or games ahev to eb played behind closed doors.
As I read in the Tims today - Premiership atmosphere has been scrificed in the name of safety, and although I love a good atmosphere, I would rather feel safe at a game, and if safety is goiong to be questioned, then a Hillsborough is once again in the offing.

What about the pitch invasion after Dougie's goal at Stockport last season? Or after the Blackburn play-off in 89? Or Villa Park 1990?

Hillsborough would only happen again if they re-introduced fencing - it was not a 'hooligan' issue (although The Sun seemed a little confused:rolleyes: ).

I'm not trying to justify it, but think it's been blown out of all proportion. Hammann always winds the teams up before a game - against Reading and Bristol City he had the tannoy play the theme from The Muppets whilst the opposition team names are being announced, but there was no violence there. It seems to me that the press just wanted to create a story where there wasn't one.

(and if we are doing lists, I reckon Hammann would be way down the pecking order considering some of the idiots in football, many of them in the media pack feeding off it)

arussell
07-01-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Kevin T
Excuse my ignorance but what actually happened? I didn't see anything unsavoury on TV in the pub.


Sky choice to largely not cover anything that happened.

Hamman decided that with 15 minutes left - he would walk right past the Leeds fans and then stand behind the Leeds goal whilst the game was going on (for this alone he should be had by the FA).

Cardiff fans chucked numerous bottles towards Leeds players whilst the game was going on and the ref was also hit by a coin. At the final whistle, a few thousand Cardiff fans then ran on the pitch and a number of them tried to charge the Leeds fans on the terrace, only to be stopped by riot police in full gear that had to charge them. Riot police also had to intercede to stop Cardiff fans in the stand to the left from trying to get at the Leeds fans.

A radio 5 reporter then tried to talk to Hamman after the game about what happened, and asked didn't he think it was a bad idea to walk in front of away fans and then stand at that end of the pitch. Hamman then ranted on about this wouldn't be said if it were an English club and they were being picked on because their Welsh. This was being recorded by the BBC reporter who then had his minidisc recorder confiscated and he was thrown out of the ground. The disc was then destroyed by Hamman.

David O'Leary then had a serious argument in the car park with Hamman about his antics and had to be forcibly pulled away by his chairman to stop it getting worse. O'Leary launched into Hamman who basically swore at him non-stop in return.

Alan Cork (Cardiff's brain dead manager who will eventually end up getting the sack) also came out with statements saying it was all just "fun" and people were only "enjoying themselves".

I hope the FA have the sense to come down HARD on Cardiff, but what with them continually ignoring any problems with Millwall - I seriously doubt anything proper will be done about the situation.

What saddens me is that the majority of journalists that follow mainly premier league football - seem to be unware that clubs like Cardiff and Millwall are a problem and that these things still happen their on a regular basis.

Farnboro' Eagle
07-01-2002, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Cleon


What about the pitch invasion after Dougie's goal at Stockport last season? Or after the Blackburn play-off in 89? Or Villa Park 1990?

Hillsborough would only happen again if they re-introduced fencing - it was not a 'hooligan' issue (although The Sun seemed a little confused:rolleyes: ).

I'm not trying to justify it, but think it's been blown out of all proportion. Hammann always winds the teams up before a game - against Reading and Bristol City he had the tannoy play the theme from The Muppets whilst the opposition team names are being announced, but there was no violence there. It seems to me that the press just wanted to create a story where there wasn't one.

(and if we are doing lists, I reckon Hammann would be way down the pecking order considering some of the idiots in football, many of them in the media pack feeding off it)

During the Stockport game, i was stood right at the back of the terrace, and most of us at the back were shouting to get off the pitch. Also inthe situations you have mentioned, no trouble/violence (from my memories of the other two games, which I don't remember all that well, as I was only 9!!) occured,which is in stark contrast to yesterdays situation. Contary to your opinion, i believe that the situation needs explicit coverage aso that people are aware that things like this still happen, and an example should be made of the Cardiff eposide,a dn the FA should come down hard on them as Arussell has said. Mark and Lard on Radio 1 have just summed up the situation quite well, when they said "who does Hammam think he is parading around the ground before the end of the game thinking he is the emporer of Rome or something?!".

Fencing did not cause Hillsborough (although it exacerbated the incident) - it was the inadequacies of the South Yorkshire Plice command that caused the problems, wasn't his name Duckenfield? The atmosphere at Hillsborough has been badly affected by the introduction of safety measures (and that Wednesday are sh!t), but it is a safe satdium,which has to be the most important aspect.

On a list of idiots in football (in no particular order):

Hammam
Bruce
Rupert lowe (Southampton Chairman)
Big Ron(y)
Hoddle
Mark Lawrensen
and....
Ernie Howe (Basingstoke Town manager)

Kevin T
07-01-2002, 05:37 PM
Did anyone think that Cardiff fans wouldn't jump on the pitch?

These things happen after exciting incidents. Man U's come back yesterday. Ours against Rotherham at the start of the season, plus obviously Stockport to name a few.

Hamman owns the club - why shouldn't he walk where he likes. Nobody moans when Jordan comes and sits with the away fans at matches.

Cardiff v Leeds was always gonna kick off with or without Sam Hamman. It's up to the police to minimize disturbances which it appears they did.

Gooders
07-01-2002, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Kevin T
Nobody moans when Jordan comes and sits with the away fans at matches.


Other than those unfortunates that are next to him, presumably?

:)

budgie
07-01-2002, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by Kevin T
Did anyone think that Cardiff fans wouldn't jump on the pitch?

These things happen after exciting incidents. Man U's come back yesterday. Ours against Rotherham at the start of the season, plus obviously Stockport to name a few.

Hamman owns the club - why shouldn't he walk where he likes. Nobody moans when Jordan comes and sits with the away fans at matches.

Cardiff v Leeds was always gonna kick off with or without Sam Hamman. It's up to the police to minimize disturbances which it appears they did.

You're quite right you can get caught up in the excitement, and go on the pitch, the problem was the Cardiff fans (who are bigger scum than Millwall) were trying to get into the Leeds end, and it wasn't to say Yaki Dah. Hamman was deliberatly trying to wind up the Leeds fans, and as you say we don't moan when Jordan sits with us, because as you say he sits with US the away fans, he doesn't provoke the home ones.

Cardiff and Hamman deserve each other.

arussell
07-01-2002, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Kevin T
Hamman owns the club - why shouldn't he walk where he likes. Nobody moans when Jordan comes and sits with the away fans at matches.


Err they do actually Kev !

Jordan doesn't stand behind the opposition's goal on the fringes of the pitch winding the fans up does he.

Cleon
07-01-2002, 07:10 PM
Hillsborough may have been caused by inadequate policing, but the point is that regardless of the policing, it would not have happened without the fencing. Hence the reason it came down.

Again, there were only four arrests yesterday - it wasn't trouble. But it made for a great story.

Why can't Hammann spice it all up? Why can't he walk around the pitch with a Welsh flag - would you slate Jordan if he walked around the pitch in a Palace top? Would you slate him if he played "YMCA" when Brighton ran out on the pitch, as happened at Leyton not too long ago? I think Hammann is more in touch with the majority of fans than most other chairmen in the country.

oh, and...

Originally posted by budgie
the problem was the Cardiff fans (who are bigger scum than Millwall)

Behave.

Chris K
07-01-2002, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Kevin T

Cardiff v Leeds was always gonna kick off with or without Sam Hamman.

Quite right I saw on another chat site the following message:

"Leeds are you coming to play? We'll have a few hundred waiting for you before the game and 1000+ up for it afterwards"

budgie
07-01-2002, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Cleon



Behave. [/B]

Cleon you may have a soft spot for Cardiff, but as someone who has had the misfortune of visiting Ninian dump, let me tell you Cardiff have the worst scum I have had the pleasure of meeting.

They will attack any opposition fans they can find, regardless of age or sex, they are scum.

:veryangry

budgie
07-01-2002, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by Chris K


Quite right I saw on another chat site the following message:

"Leeds are you coming to play? We'll have a few hundred waiting for you before the game and 1000+ up for it afterwards"

Quite right, and if you saw it you can bet the Police did too, thats why it shouldn't have happened, they should have been prepared.

Cleon
07-01-2002, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by budgie

Cleon you may have a soft spot for Cardiff, but as someone who has had the misfortune of visiting Ninian dump, let me tell you Cardiff have the worst scum I have had the pleasure of meeting.

They will attack any opposition fans they can find, regardless of age or sex, they are scum.

:veryangry

I have visited Ninian Park, as recently as two weeks ago. I'm not saying they are angels - there are some seriously deranged Cardiff fans - but worse than those vermin in Bermondsey?? Not even close.

budgie
07-01-2002, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Cleon


I have visited Ninian Park, as recently as two weeks ago. I'm not saying they are angels - there are some seriously deranged Cardiff fans - but worse than those vermin in Bermondsey?? Not even close.

We'll have to agree to disagree then, but on my 2 visits there, I have seriously wondered whether I would get out off Cardiff alive.

On a seperate note though, I have had reason to visit Cardiff for work reasons, and think its a great city for entertainment and night life.

biggus mickus
07-01-2002, 08:19 PM
Well it has been a long time since I have
seen that happen.
Bottles on the pitch.
Fans taunting fans on the pitch.

On the Leeds side of things, Smith is a liability.
Can be a good player on his day.
Only trouble is, he's a nightmare with yellow
and red cards.
I think he cost Leeds the game.

If you were the Leeds boss.
What would you do with him?

jlmatthews
07-01-2002, 08:19 PM
Hmmm, sounds like the NFL lately.....

What?
07-01-2002, 08:21 PM
Well Man U also had fans running on the pitch, bu no action will be taken against them at all.

Also Cardiff should be kicked out, i never wanted them to win in the first place, as they dont really deserve to be there. Smith should not have been sent off!!

Hammam deserves the most severe punishment known to man, to become a palace fan!

Al From Bromley
07-01-2002, 08:23 PM
It was disgraceful. Much as I always support the underdog, I was saying to Monty that cardiff ought to be chcuked out of the competition for the behaviour of their fans - I don't care that it's only a minority. What's got to happen before the FA take action? An official to lose an eye from someone throwing a coin? A player to suffer a fractured skull from a bottle? .

And they complain at Selhurst about blocks A & B of the Holmesdale standing up? It is a joke!

biggus mickus
07-01-2002, 08:26 PM
I noticed that the bottles came from
differant parts of the ground as well.
I never thought I would want Leeds
to win anything. I did yesterday.

davidjonesy
07-01-2002, 08:37 PM
the FA cup should be about good referees (yeah!) and not about hooligans!:confused:

ammiller
07-01-2002, 08:49 PM
I have only been to Ninian Park once and there was absolutely no segregation nor any hint of trouble. Even though there were thousands of Welsh and English on the pitch.

Mind you, it was to see the Pope in 1982.

Gooders
07-01-2002, 08:55 PM
Is he left-footed, or right?

arussell
07-01-2002, 09:25 PM
Gooders you fool, surely you know the Pope used to be a goalkeeper ? ;)

Gooders
07-01-2002, 09:40 PM
That's true, but he must still favour one foot over the other, surely?

:)

Farnboro' Eagle
07-01-2002, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Cleon

Again, there were only four arrests yesterday - it wasn't trouble. But it made for a great story.


Throwing bottles - either glass or plastic - onto the pitch, hitting players, throwing coins at the referee, ending the game with riot police seperating the Cardiff morons from getting into the Leeds pen, the use of police dogs... sounds like trouble to me!! I think your 'soft spot' for Cardiff is definatly tempering your judgement in this respect!! Do you think that there should be no punishment to Cardiff either though there were scenes reminisent of the troubles of the 1970s and 1980s? Hammam can build up a game sure, BUT there is a limit, and in ths instance, he has clearly breached it, and should be held responsible for his actions.

selhurst
07-01-2002, 11:33 PM
Some photos from today's THE SUN, of yesterday's disgraceful scenes at Ninian Park...

selhurst
07-01-2002, 11:39 PM
Rampaging Cardiff thugs are held back by riot police as they taunt the Leeds fans after yesterday's shock victory.

selhurst
07-01-2002, 11:41 PM
Hate-filled Cardiff fans attempt to goad Leeds supporters.

selhurst
07-01-2002, 11:43 PM
Police stop Cardiff fans from moving forward.

Farnboro' Eagle
08-01-2002, 01:05 AM
I wonder if Cleon still thinks it was 'something of nothing'......

lauren_of_hove
08-01-2002, 01:08 AM
oh my gosh! It didnt look that bad on tv!

NEWY@WORTHING
08-01-2002, 01:14 AM
went to the Palace preseason friendly when we lost back in july and was mortified at the hatred towards all ENGLISH SUPPORTING FOOTBALL FANS.Cardiff fans were intimidating that day in a poxy pre season friendly and showed again yesterday their true colours.They are scum.

Les Butler
08-01-2002, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by selhurst
Hate-filled Cardiff fans attempt to goad Leeds supporters.


Looks like the night of the living dead.......

Words fail me with such idiots

pete eagle
08-01-2002, 01:23 AM
Oh well if they don't like the English then they can f*** off and play in the Welsh League. Perfect punishment for them.
Perfectly happy to play in our leagues and cups but more than willing to slag us off. Sam Hammam talking about 'English colonial attitude'. Is he Welsh? I don't think so.

As for Leeds and Alan Smith, it was a dreadful tackle on Rio Ferdinand that injured him. How it was unseen i do not know and as for alan smith, it may have been petulance but the Cardiff player Andy Legg went down like he'd been hit in the face with a jackhammer, not a small brush of the arm.
And they say that foreign players dive :rolleyes:

Edenbridge Eagle In Exile
08-01-2002, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by NEWY@WORTHING
went to the Palace preseason friendly when we lost back in july and was mortified at the hatred towards all ENGLISH SUPPORTING FOOTBALL FANS.Cardiff fans were intimidating that day in a poxy pre season friendly and showed again yesterday their true colours.They are scum.

And some people, especially in the media want the old firm in english football....................NEVER, English football for English clubs, lets boot the celts out of our comps for good :grrr:

selhurst
08-01-2002, 02:40 AM
On the BBC News tonight they were saying that Cardiff may have to play several of their home matches behind closed doors, as punishment. Looks like their Chairman, Sam Hammam, will be punished in some way too. Has that guy completely lost the plot?

Gooders
08-01-2002, 02:42 AM
Good singers though.

Pistike
08-01-2002, 02:56 AM
..and I'm quite partial to leek and potato soup!

Al From Bromley
08-01-2002, 02:57 AM
Neanderthal scum. Should be made to field an all Welsh team if they hate the English so much. Let's see how far they'd get then.

lightweight
08-01-2002, 03:04 AM
I was surprised at people yesterday cheering on Cardiff's result etc. Some of those fans could'nt care less about them beating Leeds (at least not on the football pitch anyway). Sam Hamman needs his head examined for not condeming the supporters' behaviour. He also should never have been allowed to parade around the pitch before the final whistle, surely in a game like that it amounts to incitement.

Their next game in the cup - away - the fans shouldn't be allowed to travel.

Something has to be done - they, like Millwall, get away with it because they always act like that. The FA needs to deal with clubs like this sooner rather than later otherwise it will escalate.

sharpeshooter
08-01-2002, 03:14 AM
with regards to the So called football supporters of Cardiff or Leeds, it was no suprise to me that these two clubs have not changed over the years,
A few of the travelling Palace Supporters who can remember when Palace beat Leeds at Elland road a Few years ago; on the way back to the station the buses we were traveling in had bricks and bottles through the windows.
When we were in a lower Divison along with Cardiff at cardiff,it was a cold and wet day, one of those matches where it was a slogging match, when Palace scored in the last 7Seconds of the game, when over the barriers at the far end came the so called cardiff supporters out for a punch up. So it was with a bit of sadness that we did see a repeat of things that we had thought had gone from our National Game.
Hope the fences do not go up again!

sharpeshooter
08-01-2002, 03:22 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lightweight
[B]I was surprised at people yesterday cheering on Cardiff's result etc. Some of those fans could'nt care less about them beating Leeds (at least not on the football pitch anyway). Sam Hamman needs his head examined for not condeming the supporters' behaviour. He also should never have been allowed to parade around the pitch before the final whistle, surely in a game like that it amounts to incitement.

Their next game in the cup - away - the fans shouldn't be allowed to travel.

Something has to be done - they, like Millwall, get away with it because they always act like that. The FA needs to deal with clubs like this sooner rather than later otherwise it will escalate.
I could not agree with you more, Hamman should have set an example,
What a wally, he did wind up the Cardiff Fans, and he is the Chairman!!:hmph:

arussell
08-01-2002, 04:08 AM
Originally posted by Al from Bromley
Neanderthal scum. Should be made to field an all Welsh team if they hate the English so much. Let's see how far they'd get then.

More to the point Al - I'd still like to know why Welsh teams are playing in the ENGLISH league - especially since they hate England so much.

And seeing as they do - they should be made to play in the league of Wales as far as I'm concerned.

How far would Wales go too if English companies pulled out of the country and took all their investment with them ?? :eek:

Pistike
08-01-2002, 04:11 AM
...Berwick Rangers could take Cardiff's place. :rolleyes:

Cleon
08-01-2002, 01:20 PM
Those pictures all make for good cover don't they? But other than the underdog home supporters baiting their richer Premiership cousins, can anybody show me any violence? I'm not saying there wouldn't have been any had the police not formed a barrier, but they did, and there were only four arrests - there was probably hundred times that number in Leeds last Saturday night.

As for the Alan Smith sending off, I don't know if he intended to raise his arm, but he did. Maybe a yellow would have surficed, but will anybody defend his earlier kick, which the referee missed (and BBC didn't)? Had the referee seen that, he'd have been sent off even earlier, so I think the self-righteous indignation around his dismissal is even more unjustified.

I can't believe people wanted Leeds to win - they have just as many deranged nutcases as fans as Cardiff. The only difference is that since they have many more supporters, the nutters get diluted in the whole. If Cardiff are forced out of the cup, or forced to play behind closed doors, it will be yet another example of the media forcing us to play to their 'emotionally correct' rules. Someone else has pointed out that there doesn't appear to be any investigation going on into the pitch invasion at Villa Park either.

Ruskin Old Boy
08-01-2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by arussell


How far would Wales go too if English companies pulled out of the country and took all their investment with them ?? :eek:

Not much hope for England after the way English "supporters" have behaved in countries around the world over the years. Dublin, Heysel, Marseilles immediately spring to mind...

anti-addick
08-01-2002, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by budgie


We'll have to agree to disagree then, but on my 2 visits there, I have seriously wondered whether I would get out off Cardiff alive.


I've had the pleasure of seeing Palace v Millwall and the other derby, Bristol City v Cardiff (a serious derby for both I can tell you) and I think Cardiff are more nuts, but Millwall are more 'serious'. Cardiff fans are looking for something to do and want to make a point about being Welsh. I lived a long time in the West Country and a mate is a Cardiff fan - he's completely off his head - a mental case.
Millwall on the other hand are more organised, tooled up etc Organised thuggery if you like.

IMO

Blind_Eagle
08-01-2002, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
Those pictures all make for good cover don't they? But other than the underdog home supporters baiting their richer Premiership cousins, can anybody show me any violence? I'm not saying there wouldn't have been any had the police not formed a barrier, but they did

So because the deployment of riot police prevented any violence occurring you think its ok? A bit of good cover.............

:rolleyes:

Cleon
08-01-2002, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Blind_Eagle


So because the deployment of riot police prevented any violence occurring you think its ok? A bit of good cover.............

:rolleyes:

Yes. Adequate policing, paid for by the club, meant that there were no major problems. It is the club's duty to make the ground safe, which they were able to do.

Farnboro' Eagle
08-01-2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Cleon


Yes. Adequate policing, paid for by the club, meant that there were no major problems. It is the club's duty to make the ground safe, which they were able to do.

I'm sorry mate, but NO! The fact that players and referees were hit with missiles, players were physicaly assulted as they left the pitch and that riot police were deployed with dogs appears to me that the ground was not safe. in all honesty, do you seriously believe that the players/fans safety was not in anyway jepordised? Come on, get real!! If a little kid, or even my girlfriend, had been in that away pen that afternoon, they wouldhave been scared from going to football for life, thanks to the violence. you can put your head in the sand and try and justify it as mush as you like, but that stadium was NOT safe thanks to the actions of a violent bunch of Welsh thugs (i've also had enough of this dichotomy of English fans = bad, Welsh, Scottish, irish fans = good; all sides have a percentage of nutters).
Personally, I would kick Cardiff back into the Welsh league in which they belong. If they hate the English that much, why don't they stay the other side of the river severn, as i'm more than happy to stay this side of it. At the same time, we'll have all of our money back that we subsidise them, and then we'll see how much they actually ned the English to survive.

Neal k
08-01-2002, 03:26 PM
I think being welsh is punishment enough for the Cardiff fans:cool:

Neil the Eagle
08-01-2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by NEWY@WORTHING
went to the Palace preseason friendly when we lost back in july and was mortified at the hatred towards all ENGLISH SUPPORTING FOOTBALL FANS.Cardiff fans were intimidating that day in a poxy pre season friendly and showed again yesterday their true colours.They are scum.

I was there too, I didn't feel the least bit intimidated. They made plenty of noise and there was plenty of anti-English banter but that's par for the course at any Welsh club.

However, having seen some of the extended footage from outside the ground on BBC News 24 yesterday, it was clear they was a right tear-up in the car park opposite afterwards with several Policemen getting knocked to the ground and Leeds coaches and supporters coming under attack. Other scenes of fans on the pitch clearly showed a group of Cardiff kicking a police dog and handler. They weren't covering their faces so must be identifable. These scum need found and banned for life from all grounds.

Gooders
08-01-2002, 03:46 PM
It's quite ironic don't you think that we're all feeling sorry for Leeds fans. They're hardly angels themselves are they?

Cardiff have always been nutters.

Me and Archiebald Leitch used to dread the arrival of a number of sets of fans in the bad old days. Millwall were obviously top of that particular list but Cardiff weren't far behind, followed closely by Leeds, West Ham and Chelsea.

Put them all in their own mini-league, let them play each other 8 times a season and with any luck, the bad genes will be eradicated after 3 or 4 years and the rest of us can get on with watching football in peace.

Cleon
08-01-2002, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Neil the Eagle
I was there too, I didn't feel the least bit intimidated. They made plenty of noise and there was plenty of anti-English banter but that's par for the course at any Welsh club.

I absolutely agree, based on the number of times I have been there. Of course they give out anti-English sentiments, they are almost always playing English teams. But of course they receive their fair share of anti-Welsh gibes in return ("shove your dragon up your a**e... sideways", "sheep, sheep, sheep shaggers" etc.) - banter is part of British football. Most of their stuff is fairly harmless ("same old English, always cheating" and "always s**t on the English side of the Bridge" etc.).

From what I heard on the radio, the atmosphere at Ninian Park sounded absolutely electric - I don't blame Sam Hammann for the hostile environment. And there were more items thrown at the opposition in the Palace v Millwall game earlier this season, and where was the big press reaction there? I think the police did a good job of ensuring the the initial excitement and pitch invasion was contained.

budgie
08-01-2002, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Cleon



And there were more items thrown at the opposition in the Palace v Millwall game earlier this season, and where was the big press reaction there? I think the police did a good job of ensuring the the initial excitement and pitch invasion was contained.

Cleon, sorry mate but get real, you can't defend what happened, but if you want to hide your head in the sand then fair enough.

Cleon
08-01-2002, 05:08 PM
I am not defending the actions of a small minority of Cardiff nutcases. However, I am saying that given the basic fact of life that they exist, the club did nothing wrong. Adequate policing was provided. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the owner of a football club geeing up the fans by walking around the pitch in the dying minutes of a vital cup game.

To my mind, the press have simply overreacted (again) to the celebrations of the Cardiff fans, which included the taunting of the opposition (as happens reguarly at every ground up and down the country). You can talk all you want about the supposed coin and bottle throwing incidents, but the press would not have gone overboard about those - it was the pitch invasion which made for powerful images, hence the story. The throwing incidents alone would have been ignored - as they were at Palace v Millwall earlier this season.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
08-01-2002, 06:54 PM
I have to say I'm suprised (perhaps I shouldn't be?) at the lack of attention being paid to the multiple pitch invasions during the game by Manchester United supporters at Villa Park. I'm not condoning what went on at Cardiff in any way but I would like to see some consistency in the reporting of these indcidents. At least the Cardiff fans were on their own pitch and after the game had finished.

pete eagle
08-01-2002, 10:20 PM
Yes but on that day, the players had Peter Schmeichel to protect them;) One man mountain that guy

I saw a picture in the mail of some idiotic fan from Man Utd taking on him, and Schmeichel giving him one almighty shove :D
Apparently a couple of others tried it with him as well.

selhurst
08-01-2002, 10:25 PM
A section of Cardiff fans taunt the segregated Leeds supporters during Sunday's cup-tie of shame at Ninian Park (Photo: THE SUN, 08-01-02).

selhurst
08-01-2002, 10:29 PM
HAMMAM: I FEARED AN ATTACK BY LEEDS BOSS
by Mark Curtis

CARDIFF owner Sam Hammam feared Leeds boss David O'Leary was about to attack him in the wake of Sunday's FA Cup clash. O'Leary was unhappy with the way Hammam walked around the edge of the pitch near the end of the Division Two side’s 2-1 win, believing it inflamed an already tense situation at Ninian Park. Coins and bottles were thrown from the stands during the tie and police had to baton-charge pitch invaders after the final whistle.

A row then took place between O'Leary and Hammam outside the ground's reception area, with the latter claiming: "He almost wanted to attack me. He was very lucky he stopped short of that as I had four or five people with me and he’d have had to face a very, very humbling experience in front of quite a lot of fans. I have a letter from the highest authority in football – it wouldn't be appropriate to say who – and they have given me permission to walk around the pitch. If my movements make our fans passionate and that helps us win the game, I’ll do it every time. If that’s inciting violence, that is another story – but it's not."

Hammam was also unrepentant about the Cardiff supporters who ran across the pitch to taunt Leeds' fans after the match. "It is common practice in the United Kingdom to come on the pitch on very special occasions," added Hammam. "There was no crowd invasion. There was a pitch celebration after the final whistle. Some of them started taunting the Leeds fans but taunting is part of the game as well. Leeds fans were throwing things onto the pitch too – it was not entirely one-sided. They were involved in several unsavoury incidents and Leeds fans are certainly not blameless – and certainly not some sort of holy people."

He also insisted O'Leary still has a lot to learn as a manager, saying: "He has a very good club and chairman but he lost his cool totally – and if he wants to be a top manager, he needs to control himself better. Great people have the ability to take defeat with aplomb. David O'Leary is a young man but he has to combine football abilities with behaviour abilities. He'll now be a much better manager – you have to be humble."

Hammam insisted that he was prepared to co-operate with the Football Association, even if it insisted on his club playing behind closed doors. He said: "If we have done something wrong that requires ground closure and it is in the game's interest, then so be it."

METRO, Tuesday 08 January 2002

selhurst
08-01-2002, 10:31 PM
Cardiff owner Sam Hammam is engulfed by delighted supporters after Sunday's shock win over Leeds (Photo: METRO, 08-01-02).

pete eagle
08-01-2002, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by selhurst
HAMMAM: I FEARED AN ATTACK BY LEEDS BOSS
by Mark Curtis

CARDIFF owner Sam Hammam feared Leeds boss David O'Leary was about to attack him in the wake of Sunday's FA Cup clash. O'Leary was unhappy with the way Hammam walked around the edge of the pitch near the end of the Division Two side’s 2-1 win, believing it inflamed an already tense situation at Ninian Park. Coins and bottles were thrown from the stands during the tie and police had to baton-charge pitch invaders after the final whistle.

A row then took place between O'Leary and Hammam outside the ground's reception area, with the latter claiming: "He almost wanted to attack me. He was very lucky he stopped short of that as I had four or five people with me and he’d have had to face a very, very humbling experience in front of quite a lot of fans. I have a letter from the highest authority in football – it wouldn't be appropriate to say who – and they have given me permission to walk around the pitch. If my movements make our fans passionate and that helps us win the game, I’ll do it every time. If that’s inciting violence, that is another story – but it's not."

Hammam was also unrepentant about the Cardiff supporters who ran across the pitch to taunt Leeds' fans after the match. "It is common practice in the United Kingdom to come on the pitch on very special occasions," added Hammam. "There was no crowd invasion. There was a pitch celebration after the final whistle. Some of them started taunting the Leeds fans but taunting is part of the game as well. Leeds fans were throwing things onto the pitch too – it was not entirely one-sided. They were involved in several unsavoury incidents and Leeds fans are certainly not blameless – and certainly not some sort of holy people."

He also insisted O'Leary still has a lot to learn as a manager, saying: "He has a very good club and chairman but he lost his cool totally – and if he wants to be a top manager, he needs to control himself better. Great people have the ability to take defeat with aplomb. David O'Leary is a young man but he has to combine football abilities with behaviour abilities. He'll now be a much better manager – you have to be humble."

Hammam insisted that he was prepared to co-operate with the Football Association, even if it insisted on his club playing behind closed doors. He said: "If we have done something wrong that requires ground closure and it is in the game's interest, then so be it."

METRO, Tuesday 08 January 2002

The words tw@t and w@nker come to mind. In the interview in the mail he was even worse, talking about the 'wise men' at the FA

:rolleyes:

Gooders
09-01-2002, 01:17 AM
Heard on the radio on the way home that it turns out that the Football League have written to Hammam earlier this season and asked him to stop his little touchline jaunts because of concerns voiced by opposition fans about incitement.

Silly little man.

pete eagle
09-01-2002, 01:25 AM
He ain't even welsh

selhurst
09-01-2002, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by selhurst
"I have a letter from the highest authority in football – it wouldn't be appropriate to say who – and they have given me permission to walk around the pitch."

Originally posted by Gooders
Heard on the radio on the way home that it turns out that the Football League have written to Hammam earlier this season and asked him to stop his little touchline jaunts because of concerns voiced by opposition fans about incitement.

I wonder if Hammam reads all his mail? :rolleyes:

N
09-01-2002, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
Heard on the radio on the way home that it turns out that the Football League have written to Hammam earlier this season and asked him to stop his little touchline jaunts because of concerns voiced by opposition fans about incitement.

Silly little man.
Rather late now I feel

Si121
09-01-2002, 03:38 AM
I think he's a good chairmen. All the players seem to like him which must be good for morale. Which is more than can be said for Simon Jordan.

Jack Regan
09-01-2002, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by g23
But it was fair enough when Malcolm Allison did it?

Absolutely right. You all thought it was fantastic when Big Nose wound up the Shed in 1976, but Sam Hamman's an idiot for doing it to the Leeds fans?

Come on, either they're both tw@ts, or they're both brilliant - you can't have it both ways you hypocrites.

Jack Regan
09-01-2002, 04:29 PM
...and another thing

So some Leeds fans got a taste of their own medicine.

So f***ing what - it's been a long time coming.

pete eagle
10-01-2002, 02:37 AM
the point is that it is some Leeds fans. There are children and elderly people and a lot of decent respectable people who don't deserve it at all. And they are not the only club, there are several clubs including bristol City who have complained

Jack Regan
10-01-2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by pete eagle
the point is that it is some Leeds fans. There are children and elderly people and a lot of decent respectable people who don't deserve it at all. And they are not the only club, there are several clubs including bristol City who have complained

Come off it mate.

Any Leeds fans that took their kids to that match deserves a visit from social services. Anyone with half a brain knows which games not to go to and this was one to be avoided at all costs. Even the police are anti-English there! You've got two hopes of emerging unscathed, no hope and Bob Hope.

It's a bit like me saying I was going to take my 2 young kids to Samsunspor a couple of years ago - madness!

pete eagle
10-01-2002, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Jack Regan


Come off it mate.

Any Leeds fans that took their kids to that match deserves a visit from social services. Anyone with half a brain knows which games not to go to and this was one to be avoided at all costs. Even the police are anti-English there! You've got two hopes of emerging unscathed, no hope and Bob Hope.

It's a bit like me saying I was going to take my 2 young kids to Samsunspor a couple of years ago - madness!

I did not say just children. I think that a lot of people who are loyal fans, come to every game and so on went there who were decent respectable people