PDA

View Full Version : Please someone explain this - Moses related


plectrum
11-01-2010, 10:08 PM
We have a highly in demand youngster, we have 2 Championsides bidding and 2 Premier sides that we know of. Supposedly we have a bid of 1.5 derisory from Bromwich, 3 from Notts F and 3.5 from Man City.

Obviously we are trying to get the best possible deal.

The rumour is that on signing at City he will be placed on loan at West Brom or a suitable championship side to get a year+ of first team football.

In our current position i.e. near play offs why do we not ask City for this.

You can have Moses for slightly under 3.5m so say 3.3m but firstly we get Moses on loan for the rest of the season with free wages, first dibs on any future loan agreement but also a couple mroe Man City youngsters on reduced or free wages until the end of the season.

I would presume that Man City would be interested in this and it would certainly give Moses the most secure continuation of his development.

Sending a young 19 year old to the West Brom is crazy, up rooting the kid and family to only re-uproot him a year later when he returns to Man City.

kolinkins
11-01-2010, 10:10 PM
Maybe our embargo would not allow it?

chatham_eagle
11-01-2010, 10:11 PM
If M'Bargo is still here, we can't register any players, this includes loan signings.
One way around this would be selling Moses now, but him staying on for the rest of the season and City transferring his registration in the summer.
Dueto the liklihood of him getting injured, I doubt they're likely to agree to such a deal.

Gooders
12-01-2010, 09:34 AM
We wouldn't be able to afford his new wage.

Sir.S.C Remembered
12-01-2010, 10:08 AM
We wouldn't be able to afford his new wage.

I think he said wage free or very low.

If Man City, I think we should definitely argue for this as I have mentioned on other threads. I think we should have in principle a loan agreement for this season and next season for his own development as Man City WILL spend big again this summer and he already would be behind several players.

So 3.3m-3.5m with those loan options + a sell on claus % wise and possible a fee after certain appearances and if he plays for England etc etc. This will then very much be worth well over 5m in all if you take into account wages not being paid (or very small %) etc.

Raoul Duke
12-01-2010, 10:14 AM
We have a highly in demand youngster, we have 2 Championsides bidding and 2 Premier sides that we know of. Supposedly we have a bid of 1.5 derisory from Bromwich, 3 from Notts F and 3.5 from Man City.

Obviously we are trying to get the best possible deal.

The rumour is that on signing at City he will be placed on loan at West Brom or a suitable championship side to get a year+ of first team football.

In our current position i.e. near play offs why do we not ask City for this.

You can have Moses for slightly under 3.5m so say 3.3m but firstly we get Moses on loan for the rest of the season with free wages, first dibs on any future loan agreement but also a couple mroe Man City youngsters on reduced or free wages until the end of the season.

I would presume that Man City would be interested in this and it would certainly give Moses the most secure continuation of his development.

Sending a young 19 year old to the West Brom is crazy, up rooting the kid and family to only re-uproot him a year later when he returns to Man City.

. . . . . . because we are in no position to bargain for anything. Unless clubs start bidding against eachother we can't reject any (un)reasonable offer.

FraserH
12-01-2010, 10:24 AM
would they rather loan him to a team that is facing admin and possible relegation battle or to a top 3 team fighting for the promotion. thats the way i would look at it.

whatever happens I don't think we will be seeing victor again :(

Eddie'S Dad
12-01-2010, 10:27 AM
The trouble is, the more demands we put on the deal, the more the fee we'll receive will come down.

And what CPFC / SJ needs at the moment is as much cash as possble.

cpfc4evandeva
12-01-2010, 10:29 AM
would they rather loan him to a team that is facing admin and possible relegation battle or to a top 3 team fighting for the promotion. thats the way i would look at it.

whatever happens I don't think we will be seeing victor again :(

The fact that he has played here regularly, the manager obviously likes him and he is playing well here would come into I would hope. Plus he is settled in this area and his family live here. I cannot understand any logic at all in sending him to WBA unless we're not allowed to have him on loan due to the embargo.

However, there is a very easy way around this I would think. Man City purchase a 'First option' on Moses to the sum of x amount, and then both Palace and City agree to a move in the Summer. Everyones a winner baby.*




* I am sure is probably more complex than this :D

Dobbo
12-01-2010, 10:35 AM
WBA have a good relationship with Man City, and would imagine Mancini knows di Matteo well too, so can see where this idea has come from, much as we dislike it

kettle
12-01-2010, 10:43 AM
would they be willing to pay 300-500K for a first option on him?

plectrum
12-01-2010, 10:44 AM
The trouble is, the more demands we put on the deal, the more the fee we'll receive will come down.

And what CPFC / SJ needs at the moment is as much cash as possble.

I do understand your point, at the moment we need 7m or the guarantee of 7m+interest.

With 1m for Fonte, 3m for Moses we are over half way there, then 600k for Scannell, 800k for Danns and 2.5m for Ambrose.

I know that losing those players would leave gaping holes in the side but 3 youth players on free loan from the buyer of Moses and possibly Ambrose could fill the gap.

What we really need more than anything is promotion as this is pretty much the only thing bar a big takeover that will save the club.

At the end of the season if we are still in Championship and without players like Moses, then I am not sure I can see us being able to move forward.

There is a strange delay though over the Moses deal and I very much hope that there is a prospective buyer who has said, sell no-one until I have made a decision about buying the club.

plectrum
12-01-2010, 10:45 AM
would they be willing to pay 300-500K for a first option on him?

It makes little difference as we could easily just say in that case your bid is 3.5m and Notts bid is 3m either give us the players on loan free and get a reduced bid of 3.3 or we ask Notts for 3.2 and take it leaving City up City creek.

plectrum
12-01-2010, 10:46 AM
Maybe our embargo would not allow it?

Yes that could well be a problemo!

Adlerhorst
12-01-2010, 10:51 AM
I think M'Bargo is leaving the club after the Fonte deal is he not.

FL will retain revenues owed to other clubs and ex players from that fee. What's left pays the players dec wages (heopfully).

If so m'Bargo is released on a free.

LeeSinnots ears
12-01-2010, 10:56 AM
We have a highly in demand youngster, we have 2 Championsides bidding and 2 Premier sides that we know of. Supposedly we have a bid of 1.5 derisory from Bromwich, 3 from Notts F and 3.5 from Man City.

Obviously we are trying to get the best possible deal.

The rumour is that on signing at City he will be placed on loan at West Brom or a suitable championship side to get a year+ of first team football.

In our current position i.e. near play offs why do we not ask City for this.

You can have Moses for slightly under 3.5m so say 3.3m but firstly we get Moses on loan for the rest of the season with free wages, first dibs on any future loan agreement but also a couple mroe Man City youngsters on reduced or free wages until the end of the season.

I would presume that Man City would be interested in this and it would certainly give Moses the most secure continuation of his development.

Sending a young 19 year old to the West Brom is crazy, up rooting the kid and family to only re-uproot him a year later when he returns to Man City.

probably because WBA play football and we play Hoofball and they want Vic to play up front with the ball to his feet.
Not on the wing with the ball in the air for a good part of the game

plectrum
12-01-2010, 10:58 AM
Alderhorst,

i do not post here frequently so do not understand FL or M'Bargo ?

cpfc4evandeva
12-01-2010, 11:05 AM
would they be willing to pay 300-500K for a first option on him?

Thats not really what I meant. What I meant was that if City are willing to let us keep the lad on loan for the rest of the season, but are not allowed to do this due to the embargo there is possibly a way round this.

They give us the money for thew lad, but offically the transfer doesn't go through until the Summer. The way they can give us moeny would be by securing a 'first option'. So they give us the full amount now, but he doesn't officially move until June. Make sense?

cpfc4evandeva
12-01-2010, 11:06 AM
Alderhorst,

i do not post here frequently so do not understand FL or M'Bargo ?

FL = Football League

M'Bargo is a silly way of spelling emabrgo :D

cpfc4evandeva
12-01-2010, 11:07 AM
probably because WBA play football and we play Hoofball and they want Vic to play up front with the ball to his feet.
Not on the wing with the ball in the air for a good part of the game

Yeh, he's been wasting away here hasn't he :S:

917L
12-01-2010, 11:10 AM
We have a highly in demand youngster, we have 2 Championsides bidding and 2 Premier sides that we know of. Supposedly we have a bid of 1.5 derisory from Bromwich, 3 from Notts F and 3.5 from Man City.

.

Supposedly

There is no confirmation that ANYONE has actually made a bid of any sort

plectrum
12-01-2010, 11:11 AM
Thats not really what I meant. What I meant was that if City are willing to let us keep the lad on loan for the rest of the season, but are not allowed to do this due to the embargo there is possibly a way round this.

They give us the money for thew lad, but offically the transfer doesn't go through until the Summer. The way they can give us moeny would be by securing a 'first option'. So they give us the full amount now, but he doesn't officially move until June. Make sense?

That is impossible and most likely contrary to FL rules. As someone has pointed out what guarantee does that give City the player is there player. If we end up going bust still and they do nto have hte registration they are up sh1t creek. Also if the player is injured which insurance covers it etc etc etc. Also lets say he plays an absolute blinder, an dMan U come in with a 10m bid what then stops us giving them back the 5m and saying we still have the regn so two fingers.

So many things prevent this but the most obvious is that the FL would kill us as it is too similar to the Tevez saga.

plectrum
12-01-2010, 11:12 AM
Supposedly

There is no confirmation that ANYONE has actually made a bid of any sort

Well there kinda is.... you would not get a confirmation until a bid has been accepted. I think it is good to say that both Forest and City have bid. It doesnt matter whether the bids are 3.8, 3.2, 2.8 etc as long as they are close enough to warrent asking City for some loan deal incentives.

cpfc4evandeva
12-01-2010, 11:22 AM
That is impossible and most likely contrary to FL rules. As someone has pointed out what guarantee does that give City the player is there player. If we end up going bust still and they do nto have hte registration they are up sh1t creek. Also if the player is injured which insurance covers it etc etc etc. Also lets say he plays an absolute blinder, an dMan U come in with a 10m bid what then stops us giving them back the 5m and saying we still have the regn so two fingers.

So many things prevent this but the most obvious is that the FL would kill us as it is too similar to the Tevez saga.

Its nothing like the Tevez deal in anyway at all. The Tevez deal was dodgy because he was owned by a third party. Its no different to putting a deposit on a house. MAn city would say put a 99% deposit down on Moses and would pay 1% to us in the Summer to complete the deal.

I can't see a problem with this.

Anyways, if the embargo is over (as Adlerhorst said it may be), then all this is irrelevant.

milky87
12-01-2010, 11:26 AM
probably because WBA play football and we play Hoofball and they want Vic to play up front with the ball to his feet.
Not on the wing with the ball in the air for a good part of the game

This perception of West Brom pisses me off

Did you watch West Brom v Forest????????

All they done was hoof it.

You obviously do not go to many Palace games as if you did you would know that we actually mix it up quite well

milky87
12-01-2010, 11:27 AM
would they rather loan him to a team that is facing admin and possible relegation battle or to a top 3 team fighting for the promotion. thats the way i would look at it.

whatever happens I don't think we will be seeing victor again :(

If we lose 10 points we will only be 13 points off the play offs

cpfc4evandeva
12-01-2010, 11:33 AM
If we lose 10 points we will only be 13 points off the play offs

:p this is the only way to think! :lux:

Niel Smillie
12-01-2010, 12:27 PM
Supposedly

There is no confirmation that ANYONE has actually made a bid of any sort

Listening to David Sullivan this morning and what must be extremely worrying for Jordan, is his comment that clubs will have to sell to survive, but there are very few clubs with money to buy at the moment.

Dobbo
12-01-2010, 12:38 PM
Warnock unclear over squad's future


Neil Warnock admits he doesn't know how many of his Crystal Palace players will follow Jose Fonte out the exit door this month.

Fonte joined Southampton for an undisclosed fee believed to be 1.2m on Saturday, and could be followed by a number of players as the cash-strapped club attempt to raise funds.

Victor Moses has been linked to a host of clubs but Warnock remained tight-lipped on the youngsters future as well that of the rest of his squad.

"I don't know if more will go," he said.

"We don't know what is around the corner over the next few weeks.

"The chairman is dealing with everything to do with Victor.

"I have read this and that in the papers and been told that people like Manchester City and Fulham are interested but I do not know anything for certain."

City are rumoured to be leading the chase with a 3.5m bid and are said to be planning to loan Moses out to a Championship club, leaving Warnock dreaming that he could come back to Palace.

"That would be great," he said.

"That would be utopia."

EagleSE24
12-01-2010, 12:42 PM
Hope we get a good sell on fee

Son of Ron
12-01-2010, 12:46 PM
Hope we get a good sell on fee

exactly - I think 3m to Forest with a say 20% sell on clause would be a better deal than 3.5m to City up front and no sell on -but it depends how desperately we need that cash up front.

LeeSinnots ears
12-01-2010, 01:21 PM
Yeh, he's been wasting away here hasn't he :S:

No obviously not Sh*t for brains but do you really think you get the best out of Victor playing half the matches and when he does in a crappy 433 with him stuck on the wing or the ball flying over his head.

It is only in the last few games that we really have begun to see the real VM playing in a 442 up front.

That is why Man City or any other club would want to send him to a club that plays the ball on the ground so as to see him develop not just crick his neck looking for the ball :S:

milky87
12-01-2010, 01:22 PM
No obviously not Sh*t for brains but do you really think you get the best out of Victor playing half the matches and when he does in a crappy 433 with him stuck on the wing or the ball flying over his head.

It is only in the last few games that we really have begun to see the real VM playing in a 442 up front.

That is why Man City or any other club would want to send him to a club that plays the ball on the ground so as to see him develop not just crick his neck looking for the ball :S:

So he has been poor away from home like against West Brom in a 4-3-3

Chris K
12-01-2010, 01:23 PM
How about 3.5m with us getting the money now and them getting the player in June? In my view they are still getting a bargain

LeeSinnots ears
12-01-2010, 01:30 PM
So he has been poor away from home like against West Brom in a 4-3-3:S: :S:

Look at the bigger picture cant you.

Do you want me to name the games he has not got a kick or been subbed.

FYI I think he could be a really great player but not in this system or with the players he has around him

Golf Boy
12-01-2010, 01:33 PM
I think M'Bargo is leaving the club after the Fonte deal is he not.

.

He's been with the club long enough

montstar
12-01-2010, 01:55 PM
Hope we get a good sell on fee

but if we do go into admin we wont get this money...

CommercialStone
12-01-2010, 02:04 PM
Maybe the reason for the loan deal to WBA instead of us is that the re-location / upheaval will take place whilst he is at WBA and not at City. If he was to come back here on loan, he would then not have to uproot, move to the North and become unsettled until he moved to City in the Summer. Just an idea. Although I'd say it was more to do withthe style of football and the fact that Di Matteo is there

milky87
12-01-2010, 02:21 PM
:S: :S:

Look at the bigger picture cant you.

Do you want me to name the games he has not got a kick or been subbed.

FYI I think he could be a really great player but not in this system or with the players he has around him

West Brom play very similar football to us. I do not know why people think West Brom are a total football side.

kolinkins
12-01-2010, 02:57 PM
No obviously not Sh*t for brains but do you really think you get the best out of Victor playing half the matches and when he does in a crappy 433 with him stuck on the wing or the ball flying over his head.

It is only in the last few games that we really have begun to see the real VM playing in a 442 up front.

That is why Man City or any other club would want to send him to a club that plays the ball on the ground so as to see him develop not just crick his neck looking for the ball :S:

He has played up front for 45 minutes. We're still mainly playing 4-3-3

stevek
12-01-2010, 02:59 PM
:S: :S:

Look at the bigger picture cant you.

Do you want me to name the games he has not got a kick or been subbed.

FYI I think he could be a really great player but not in this system or with the players he has around him

He's looked pretty great in the system we use since he got back in the team.

pauldrulez
12-01-2010, 04:17 PM
:S: :S:

Look at the bigger picture cant you.

Do you want me to name the games he has not got a kick or been subbed.

FYI I think he could be a really great player but not in this system or with the players he has around him
Are you going to name the 5 games this year when he was hurt but Warnock asked if he was fit and he said "yes" when he clearly wasn't?

Cleon
12-01-2010, 04:44 PM
With 1m for Fonte, 3m for Moses we are over half way there, then 600k for Scannell, 800k for Danns and 2.5m for Ambrose.

Whaaaaaaaaattt!? 2.5M for Ambrose. :eek: I is wanting wot u is smokin' bro.

cpfc4evandeva
12-01-2010, 06:16 PM
West Brom play very similar football to us. I do not know why people think West Brom are a total football side.

What are you talking about?! They play a bit like the Brazil 1970 and Holland 1974 team all rolled into one.

Well, thats what the media would have you believe at least.

And Mr Ears, I can't really be bothered to reply to you in any depth. Moses seems to play well whether up front or on the left. I don't think WBA would be too different to us though of course you have fallen for the image that the media have given them.

Well done you :)

pumaspalace
12-01-2010, 06:27 PM
WBA can occasionally play decent football, but so can Palace. Personally I think Moses can play well where ever he is, whether thats on the wing, in the hole or up front, but i would prefer to see him as a striker.( and preferably at Palace :sob:)

plectrum
12-01-2010, 07:43 PM
Whaaaaaaaaattt!? 2.5M for Ambrose. :eek: I is wanting wot u is smokin' bro.

Probably the best attacking central midfielder in the championship at present. Under 26, has 5 years left at top level maybe more. He has maybe another 10-15 goals in him this season and so at any playoff contender that goal return is worth 2.5m just for this season.

Jolly Norwegian
12-01-2010, 08:21 PM
Probably the best attacking central midfielder in the championship at present. Under 26, has 5 years left at top level maybe more. He has maybe another 10-15 goals in him this season and so at any playoff contender that goal return is worth 2.5m just for this season.
You forgot "Plays for a club desperately needing cash NOW!" in you equation :rolleyes:

917L
12-01-2010, 08:30 PM
Well there kinda is.... you would not get a confirmation until a bid has been accepted. I think it is good to say that both Forest and City have bid.

No there isnt and Warnock has stated that Forest have NOT made a bid of any sort

Vince Hilaire's Afro
12-01-2010, 08:44 PM
This perception of West Brom pisses me off

Did you watch West Brom v Forest????????

All they done was hoof it.

You obviously do not go to many Palace games as if you did you would know that we actually mix it up quite well

Ah, well perhaps Forest did that same thing we did. Something about our midfield 'stopping them from playing', thereby ruining a footballing masterclass exhibition from the Baggies.

Very inconsiderate if you ask me.

plectrum
12-01-2010, 09:27 PM
You forgot "Plays for a club desperately needing cash NOW!" in you equation :rolleyes:

Any club that can get 1.2m for Fonte when sellign him to a club in a lower division can do absolutely anything!!!!!

plectrum
12-01-2010, 09:28 PM
No there isnt and Warnock has stated that Forest have NOT made a bid of any sort

Where has he said this as I see plenty sources stating that they have but not yet seen the Warnock one saying they haven't. Actually I have seen the one from Warnock stating that he is not involved at all in the Moses transfer and it is all being handled by Jordan.

cranesparkeagle
13-01-2010, 10:36 AM
Ah, well perhaps Forest did that same thing we did. Something about our midfield 'stopping them from playing', thereby ruining a footballing masterclass exhibition from the Baggies.

Very inconsiderate if you ask me.
:D

Forest murdered West Brom and I wonder if their star is on the wane. Don't think Di Matteo witters on about out-footballing everyone the way Mowbray did.

917L
13-01-2010, 11:30 AM
Where has he said this as I see plenty sources stating that they have but not yet seen the Warnock one saying they haven't..

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11688_5853241,00.html