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View Full Version : Japan/Korea 2002 - Fizz or Fizzle?


Strathclyde Eagle
21-03-2002, 04:56 PM
I was just thinking about the World Cups I've seen in my lifetime, and thought about how the quality of games has varied...

Argentina 1978 - Don't remember (I was only 3 at the time though!).
Spain 1982 - Pretty good for the most part. The two England games in the second phase were pretty dull though.
Mexico 1986 - Probably the best that I remember. Lots of excellent long range goals, exciting games and a terrific final.
Italy 1990 - If it hadn't been for England doing so well would it be so fondly remembered? Possibly for Cameroon, but besides that there were lots of dull games, maybe none more so than the final between West Germany and Argentina.
USA 1994 - I remember it pretty well, minus the Irish games and another terrible final.
France 1998 - Drama aplenty, not too bad a tournament on the whole, although personally Mexico 1986 remains the tournament which I look back at being the best in my lifetime. The coverage by the Scottish media spoiled it for me a bit as well.

So considering all the factors (conditions/effect on manner of play, early morning kick-offs, a tough group for England) do you think that the 2002 World Cup will be a terrific tournament or a major disappointment?

g23
21-03-2002, 05:29 PM
I can see it being a goodie. It's always best to watch a World Cup being played somewhere really hot, as it all gets more tactical, and the abilities of the superior players shine through. I can't think of any difficult or controversial rule changes or emphasis that might mar the play as has happened before.

Like Tony, I remember Mexico as being a great tournament (I was a touch young for Spain, but had the WC subbuteo edition from there) and USA as being dire.

GeeTee
21-03-2002, 08:18 PM
The first I can properly remember was 1982.

I think that and Mexico 86 were the best tournaments but maybe it was just more fun when I was a kid.

Not sure on the hot=great theory g23 as by your own admission USA 94 was dire.

Here's hoping though

g23
21-03-2002, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by GeeTee
Not sure on the hot=great theory g23 as by your own admission USA 94 was dire.

Maybe it's something to do with South American TV, where it all looks kind of sun-bleached?

Elephant with mouse gyp
21-03-2002, 08:54 PM
It will be great. Having said that, I take take the view that all World Cups are fantastic. I worry myself how much of my life I spend waiting for the next one to come round. Better than waiting for Godot, though.

I thought Brazil were great in 94, the final excepted maybe. I also loved the way the boring Irish and Norwegian teams were finally found out, thanks to g23's point about the weather. Jack Charlton moaning about lack of water was excellent entertainment.

In 1990, Italy were wonderful for most of the tournament. It's one of my biggest regrets that I didn't go - had the chance to, working for a ticket agency, but turned it down. Doh!

1986 is a highlight because of Maradonna, but also the great Denmark side, the Kiev-based Soviet team and Ray Wilkins telling the ballboy to give him the effin ball back.

1982 had Paulo Rossi, an elfin genius of a striker, a superb Brazil team and Schumacher's assault on France.

1978 rates alongside 86 for me. Argentina and Holland were teams to die for, there was the ticker tape and there was Menotti - one of the most intellectual managers of all time, a chain smoker and vehement opponent of the military regime. Admittedly, revelations that some of the games may have been fixed have soured the memories a bit.

1974 - I lived in Holland at the time (I was ten) and was overawed by the Dutch style, an admiration that has stuck ever since, though I remember a lot of people in Eindhoven (that's where I lived) I knew were furious they didn't win because, they reckoned, the team was too packed with Ajax players. Yeah, like Cruyff.

1970 - Can't remember that much except for the general talk of Bobby Moore's arrest. One kid down the road took off his Peter Bonnetti shirt and chucked it in the bin after the England defeat.

Don't worry, I'm at the end of Memory Lane now.

g23
21-03-2002, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp
boring...Norwegian teams were finally found out, thanks to g23's point about the weather.

Sacrilege! Although funnily I don't remember the Norwegians in 94. They did get tonked all round in 98 though (or was that Euro 2000?) Memory Lane is not a very productive place for me.

Elephant with mouse gyp
21-03-2002, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by g23


Sacrilege! Although funnily I don't remember the Norwegians in 94. They did get tonked all round in 98 though (or was that Euro 2000?) Memory Lane is not a very productive place for me.

If you want to go Scandinavia this time, follow the Danes is my advice. I don't think they'll qualify but they'll be a bit more lively than Sweden.*

Does Denmark count as Scandinavia geographically?

* Another World Cup memory. I went to an international school in Holland, run by Philips who my dad worked for and who own PSV. Some of the foreign players sent their kids there, including the daughter of then Sweden captain Bjorn Nordquist. The whole school worshipped at her feet. Even you would have fancied her.

g23
21-03-2002, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp
Does Denmark count as Scandinavia geographically?

Yus. And I'm sure Ms Nordquist had her charms. Was that spacey Philips museum there in your day? I remember a fun afternoon there as a kid.

Have written a little piece for the next Echo about Sweden's chances in the Summer - I think they might surprise you, and am sure they'll out-perform those raucous Danes.

Strathclyde Eagle
21-03-2002, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp
I thought Brazil were great in 94, the final excepted maybe. I also loved the way the boring Irish and Norwegian teams were finally found out, thanks to g23's point about the weather. Jack Charlton moaning about lack of water was excellent entertainment.
True. Who remember's John Aldridge blowing his top in Orlando? High comedy.

And yes, Brazil were fantastic in that tournament. Pity about the final though.

Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp
1986 is a highlight because of Maradonna, but also the great Denmark side, the Kiev-based Soviet team and Ray Wilkins telling the ballboy to give him the effin ball back.
The Danes were class. I remember being disappointed upon hearing the result when I got up the morning after Spain had knocked them out.

Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp
1982 had Paulo Rossi, an elfin genius of a striker, a superb Brazil team and Schumacher's assault on France.
I'm not sure what time it was on or why I was watching it, but the Italy-Brazil game in that tournament was fantastic. A pity you don't see Italy play like that more often IMHO.

El Aguila
21-03-2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by Strathclyde Eagle


The Danes were class. I remember being disappointed upon hearing the result when I got up the morning after Spain had knocked them out.


Five - one. CINCO - UNO! So how great were those Danes? Germany '74 was the best for me, except (i) England weren't in it (which helped to appreciate the merits of the football played by other teams, but meant I had to support Scotland and Holland, hmmmm), and (ii) Holland didn't win (neither did Scotland, of course). France '98 was the next most enjoyable, but this year's should be a cracker - especially as I work with an Argentinian - June 7th, lunchtime, Quilmes and Bass all round. Spain will do well this time, no really they will.....

Daniel_Nash
22-03-2002, 04:08 AM
1986 - i was 2 and a bit, so don't really remember much. But Lineker was a hero :)

1990 - When i first got into football, England were very good and unlucky. Lots of good games i thought, and some really good goals.

1994 - Good for the South American/Mediteranean teams and Sweden :eek: , but i didn't really think it was as good as the others - no England of course - but it did show that the Americans could kick a round ball!

1998 - Except for France winning and England going out harshly i thought it was generally quite good. Shame about the refereeing and the calls for severe punishments but there were some good games.

2002 - Excellent, England won and France got suspended for visa problems! David Beckham shone through as the best player in the world by scoring 3 free kicks and 1 from the halfway line, in the final. Germany had problems getting past the Irish who went quite far. Lots of exciting football, all the countries.. except Germany.. got used to the weather and conditions. English fans behaved themselves and came out smelling of roses!

Hopefully it will be great, despite the time differences, the games will hopefully be open and exciting but with England winning in the end :D

hughff
22-03-2002, 07:12 AM
1982 was the best because it was the only time NZ was represented.

It was my last year at high school. I remember in the qualifying rounds in 1981, travelling by bus to a 1st XI match (ironically in the city where I now live) so we had to miss the NZ-Fiji match. NZ needed to avoid defeat to qualify for the next round and won 13-0! The captain (Steve Sumner) scored six from midfield.

In the next round we tied with China on points and goal difference after winning our last game 5-0 away to Saudi Arabia. Spectacularly, all the goals came in the first half. Astonishingly, in the second half we had 15 shots on goal but some inspired keeping and goal-line clearance meant we couldn't get the extra goal we needed. In those days, goals scored wasn't used as a tie breaker (we had about 4 more than them) so there was a sudden death match in Singapore.

We went 2-0 up in a strong first half but the humidity started to tae it's toll and the Chinese dominated the last half hour. However, they only scored the once and we were through. It's still a record for the most games played to successfully qualify, 19 I seem to remember.

In the tournament itself, NZ played three games: Scotland, USSR, Brazil. The Scottish game was a cracker. Gordon Strachan tore us to pieces early on and the jocks went up 3-0. Then that man Sumner pulled one back and Wynton Rufer (who had scored twice against the Saudis and once against the Chinese) got another. Rufer is NZ's greatest ever and the Oceania player of the 20th Century. He had a long career in Europe and scored in the CWC final for Werder Bremen. Sadly, Strachan worked his magic again and the Scots got two more but, briefly, a spectacular upset looked possible. 5-2.

The Soviets were an excellent side, especially their keeper, Desaev(not sure of spelling anymore) whom I rated the best in the tournament, than Zoff, as captain of the winning team, got more publicity. We never looked like scoring and they cruised to 3-0.

Those of you who remember Brazil in 1982 will probably think of the marvellous match when the poaching of Paolo Rossi eliminated them. The Italians were beautiful that day and the weaknesses of the Brazilian attack and defense more than off-set their sublime midfield. But against Argentina (helped by the fiery tempers of the Argentinians) and in the three group matches, the midfield was unstoppable. Against us, Socrates strolled around the centre of the pitch like Apollo, a divine force we had no idea how to deal with. Zico scored twice, one a spectacular overhead kick, and we went down 4-0. Overall, the All Whites' campaign featured two fabulous games sandwiching one good one.

As for every other tournament, they always follow the same pattern: a mix of forgotten bad games and remembered good ones in the early stages and towards the end the games are usually dull but remembered for their importance. Even France's spanking of Brazil last time wasn't a top notch match, though it was better than most.

great dane
26-03-2002, 12:38 AM
I believe that 1986 was the best, but that was of course because of Denmark doing so well in the groupstage.
Just a pity that Sepp Piontek (the manager) had to play the best players against Germany instead of resting some of them, cause Denmark had already qualified. But since Sepp is part German he of course wanted to get a good result against them.
But the 6-1 drubbing of Uruguay stands out as one of the greatest football memories (apart from '92 of course) for me.
1998 in France was pretty good too, but the one in '90 has probably been the most disappointing WC I ever watched.
And yes, Euro 2000 wasn't a pretty sight for any Dane. 3 games, 0 points, and a goalscore of 0-8 :sob:
But I think that the WC in Japan will be a great one, especially because some of the groups are very hard to predict.