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View Full Version : Dublin or Akinbiyi? The wrong strategy?


Ian Hart
29-03-2002, 03:52 AM
This isn't another anti Akinbiyi thread. Nor is it another anti Francis thread. I'll be disappointed if anyone changes it to either of those issues. However, Millwall's signing, on loan, of Dion Dublin today goes to the heart of the one big strategic error I feel Francis made.

It is a fact that we were in a position where we didn't have a bottomless pit of cash, and could afford just one significantly priced signing. At the time, I started a poll as to which position it ought to be. The majority, including myself, plumped for a quality midfield player. (Mind you, a sizeable minority favoured a striker). It seemed to me that with two quality strikers, what we were crying out for was a player who had the ability to split a defence with a pass (which sadly the likes of Aki, Rodger, Tompson etc don't have) to provide sufficient chances for them. Yes, we needed another striker too - for back-up if one of them was injured, or to bring on if one of them was having a bad match. But that type of player could surely have been signed on loan.

I stress, I'm not knocking Akinbiyi. If we had millions to spare, he would have made a very useful third striker. But we didn't. And I feel it was a crying shame that we couldn't have signed the likes of Dion Dublin on loan, and spent the 2m on someone to provide the quality passes our excellent strikers were so desperately in need of.

I'm not knocking other decisions TF has made. But would not that have been an infinitely better strategy. Or am I missing something?

Dave
29-03-2002, 03:55 AM
Point or order but Dublin didn't even know he was available until Villa bought G23 . . . I mean Crouch

pete eagle
29-03-2002, 03:57 AM
Dublin, please, I'd have Akinbyi over him any day of the week.

He was good a couple of years ago but now I don't think so. What would have been the point of signing someone on loan when we'd have to sign someone at the end of the season anyway. There is also the risk with taking someone on loan as well, that they might get called back, when you need them so you're left buggered with your run in as you don't have the striker cover.

I doubt Dublin would have wanted to stay on the bench anyway

Coulsdon Eagle
29-03-2002, 04:06 AM
It beats me that over the years, there have been many half decent players available for free or very cheap, but we never seem to get any of them, we just sit back and watch them go and play for our rivals, and invariably turn out to be superb for them, why dont we ever pick up these players?

Jimbo ?
29-03-2002, 04:26 AM
I would have had dublin had he been going but i would rather have a signing and not a loan in and then out again - ade gives us the chance to build for next year

andy the mad eagle
29-03-2002, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by Ian Hart
This isn't another anti Akinbiyi thread. Nor is it another anti Francis thread. I'll be disappointed if anyone changes it to either of those issues. However, Millwall's signing, on loan, of Dion Dublin today goes to the heart of the one big strategic error I feel Francis made.

It is a fact that we were in a position where we didn't have a bottomless pit of cash, and could afford just one significantly priced signing. At the time, I started a poll as to which position it ought to be. The majority, including myself, plumped for a quality midfield player. (Mind you, a sizeable minority favoured a striker). It seemed to me that with two quality strikers, what we were crying out for was a player who had the ability to split a defence with a pass (which sadly the likes of Aki, Rodger, Tompson etc don't have) to provide sufficient chances for them. Yes, we needed another striker too - for back-up if one of them was injured, or to bring on if one of them was having a bad match. But that type of player could surely have been signed on loan.

I stress, I'm not knocking Akinbiyi. If we had millions to spare, he would have made a very useful third striker. But we didn't. And I feel it was a crying shame that we couldn't have signed the likes of Dion Dublin on loan, and spent the 2m on someone to provide the quality passes our excellent strikers were so desperately in need of.

I'm not knocking other decisions TF has made. But would not that have been an infinitely better strategy. Or am I missing something?
I think Ian I would go for Akinbiyi(Just).I like most of us have been a bit frustated with him-he has'nt set selhurst alight. But IMHO he will eventually score goals at this level(OK People I possibly accept I'm going to be flamed for this and no for once I'm perfectaly sober). I feel if we lose Clint at the end of the season we will need someone who can score goals at this level.

I cvan understand your point however about Dublin doing it for us short term. However I'm not quite sure he would have come to us-I feel being an ex prem player he would want prem wages. I'm not convinced SJ-even for a short term period would sanction that.

Would have been nice to have got that quality midfielder though.

fmhall
29-03-2002, 04:51 AM
Dublin is only a short term fix, where as I can see Akinbiyi being a much better long term investment,surely AA as to come good soon.

Ian Hart
29-03-2002, 05:24 AM
I did say the "likes" of Dion Dublin on loan. I wasn't necessarily referring specifically to him. Although I happen to feel he would have been ideal as someone who could be brought on to add a "target man" approach during a game, if a different tactic wasn't working.

It wasn't just a case of getting a striker on loan, I was suggesting. It was a case of getting a striker on loan, and spending the Akinbiyi money on a quality midfield player.

Anyway, what's wrong with a short-term fix, and assessing where you are at the end of it? A few years ago we were beginning to slip in the promotion race until we signed Paul Stewart on loan, and then we never looked back.

Beanie
29-03-2002, 01:59 PM
Whether we got the right player could be open to arguement (I think we will find we did) but I am sure it was the right strategy. Loans rarely fix anything - signings are better.

Boris the charltonhater
29-03-2002, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Ian Hart
Tompson
:eek: Who's he?

It could be worse, villa fans must be scratching their heads thinking Crouch or Dublin?

palacemel
30-03-2002, 01:00 AM
Ade anyday of the week.In fact would have Ade rather than
Crouch who hopefully will prove to be a one season wonder
and a complete waste of deadly dougs pennies.Ade has a
better record at this level and proved to be a 3M 'bargain'
when wolves signed him.IF we can really support him he will
be an even bigger bargain for us.......

30-03-2002, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by Dave
Point or order but Dublin didn't even know he was available until Villa bought G23 . . . I mean Crouch

can we stop this childish name calling please. how would you like it?

Jolly Norwegian
30-03-2002, 10:08 PM
I think todays happenings shows that the threadstarter has a very valid point. Although you can't judge players or teams based on one match, it doesn't strike me as surprising that Dublin scores in millwalls win, while Ade doesn't in our loss...:grrr:

WorthingEagle
30-03-2002, 10:23 PM
If Akinbiyi's worth 2.2m then Dublin's worth 20m. Investment my arse, Akinbiyi as an investment is up there with buying Marconi shares.

Crouch showed you can be a big striker and still have good technique.

Ah well, another season over. Hopefully we'll put an end to Bruce's on Monday, but far more likely is a bright attacking side, transformed from their early season form, coming to Selhurst and turning us over while their fans laugh at us and our inept manager.

pete eagle
30-03-2002, 10:25 PM
of course don't mention that millwall were playing Stockport who have the worst defence in the league while we were playing Norwich who have one of the best home defences

Jolly Norwegian
30-03-2002, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by pete eagle
of course don't mention that millwall were playing Stockport who have the worst defence in the league while we were playing Norwich who have one of the best home defences
Fair enough, but you still have to score more than the opposition to win, millwall did, while we didn't today. it's embarrasing to be below millwall, IMO...

To get promotion you need to be able to win every game, we don't seem to have that ability these days. Ok, we beat Walsall last Saturday, but I'm afraid next season will be a lot harder than we'd like to see... I also think that the first divison will be even tighter next season. Leicester (with Adams in charge), Derby and Ipswich/Blackburn/Bolton are all better teams than the best ones this year, IMHO. That's a bit OT, though...

My feelings at the moment: :vader:

pete eagle
30-03-2002, 10:44 PM
I think that if Blackburn came down, then they would have a few players pinched off them. (duff,jansen and Dunn all come to mind), likewise with Ipswich (Finidi George), Bolton will have Ricketts gone so I think the League will be very tight. Derby and Leicester i don't see being a team like Man city or Wolves. So I think that automatic promotion is very much up for grabs next season

WorthingEagle
30-03-2002, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by pete eagle
I think that if Blackburn came down, then they would have a few players pinched off them. (duff,jansen and Dunn all come to mind), likewise with Ipswich (Finidi George), Bolton will have Ricketts gone so I think the League will be very tight. Derby and Leicester i don't see being a team like Man city or Wolves. So I think that automatic promotion is very much up for grabs next season

only we won't be the ones doing the grabbing.

Ian Hart
31-03-2002, 03:09 AM
I don't claim the goal and assist Dublin got today proves my point, Pete - although I will be very surprised if he doesn't score further goals this season, regardless of the quality of opposition. My point at the start of the thread was simply one of strategy. It was a simple question of two options. Was it more sensible to have:-

1. bought Akinbiyi for 2m to cover a position where we were already strong, or

2. spent 2m on a quality midfielder, and got a decent striker (like, but not necessarily, Dublin) on loan until the end of the season.

If anyone believes we would be further away from promotion if TF had followed option 2, then I can only suggest they think about it again. I suspect even TF now wishes he'd gone for option 2.

Santos-er
31-03-2002, 03:08 PM
What really pisses me of is that we paid 2.2m for Akinbiyi, when we could have bought Stern John, Michael Hughes and Dean Sturridge for under 500k!

Did Jordan ever see AA playing before he sanctioned the transfer? On current form I can't believe he did.

Walrus
31-03-2002, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Santos-er
What really pisses me of is that we paid 2.2m for Akinbiyi, when we could have bought Stern John, Michael Hughes and Dean Sturridge for under 500k!



And you would have added about 55k a week onto the wage bill, which adds up to over 2.5 million a year.

SJ can probably fund one-off capital spends like Akinbyi now and again, but I'm sure he doesn't want to club to bleed away money on a weekly basis any more than it already does.

andy the mad eagle
01-04-2002, 04:44 AM
I did'nt know Dublin had scored untlil now!


Shows what I know about football.

Don't take any notice of me Ian.


Four wins- 73 points. Enough for the play offs and beat Millscum 2-1 in Cardiff.


:)

arussell
01-04-2002, 05:10 AM
One flaw in your argument Ian - you're assuming that Akinbiyi was a Francis signing.

Some will tell you that it was Jordan who signed him, and then told Francis.

Of course we all know how successful Jordan,s previous signing's been since he came back ! :eek:

Ian Hart
02-04-2002, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by arussell
One flaw in your argument Ian - you're assuming that Akinbiyi was a Francis signing.

Some will tell you that it was Jordan who signed him, and then told Francis.



You may well be right, Alan. It wouldn't change the fact that (I believe) it was the wrong strategy; albeit, it could have been a different strategist. As it happens, I find it a bit difficult to believe Jordan went out and signed a player unless Francis had indicated some interest in him;)

Incidentally, I have a couple of friends (who don't know eachother) who are quite well connected with the Leicester management, and they've both told me the same story - namely, that if Palace had asked for Akinbiyi on loan "with a view to purchasing" Leicester would have agreed. I have no way of knowing for sure that it's true, but it is interesting that I've heard it from 2 well-connected sources.

If we had taken him on loan, I wonder if we would now be looking to sign him permanently? Not at 2m+, I suspect, on what we've seen.

PeterH
02-04-2002, 06:25 AM
Too much money and its proved the timing was awful. BUT I like him, I like his commitment and I think he will be a very solid player for us next season. Give him some cannon fodder to shoot at pre season and build his confidence. The 4-3-3 doesn't work, Freedman doesnt play is best there, his passes seemed casual and were misplaced at both Norwich and Brum.

AA was good second half at Walsall, pretty poor at Norwich and pretty good against Brum. Last two and half matches its lovely to see the fans behind him. Hes our player and I for one am warming to him.

If he could just have a clear cut chance or two. By the way I have only seen the last three matches so do not know of any absolute sitters he may have missed.

Ian Hart
22-04-2002, 03:52 AM
Nothing that's happened since I started this thread - including my reference to Dublin - makes me think I'm wrong.

You may think Akinbiyi will come good next season. Here's hoping he does. But if we hadn't bought him, and he was still with Leicester, would you now be advocating we plunge in and shell out 2.4m?

Steve in Phoenix
22-04-2002, 04:38 AM
I for one, wouldnt - I think he cost too much. But yes I'll still take him over a loan signing like Dublin or John / Sturridge who I think are overrated and overpaid and have no long term future. Plus as good as CM and DF are.. its nice to finally have an alternative striker!

I dont think its really true Palace dont get bargains from other teams.. How much did our current strike pairing cost us? Morrison was free from Spurs and Freedman 600k or something.. not bad? Popovic on a free.. etc I think Granville will be one of the bargains too

Dillenger
22-04-2002, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by Ian Hart
I don't claim the goal and assist Dublin got today proves my point, Pete - although I will be very surprised if he doesn't score further goals this season, regardless of the quality of opposition. My point at the start of the thread was simply one of strategy. It was a simple question of two options. Was it more sensible to have:-

1. bought Akinbiyi for 2m to cover a position where we were already strong, or

2. spent 2m on a quality midfielder, and got a decent striker (like, but not necessarily, Dublin) on loan until the end of the season.

If anyone believes we would be further away from promotion if TF had followed option 2, then I can only suggest they think about it again. I suspect even TF now wishes he'd gone for option 2.

agree 100%.

we could have got michael brown for 2m, loaned andy campbell from boro (who joined cardiff on loan instead, is scoring for fun, and very highly rated by my cardiff supporting mates), then maybe picked up christian roberts for free close season (not that i've seen him play, but he sounds like a good, cheap squad member). either that or brought routledge through as back up.

i've got nothing against akinbiyi, but do think it was a very poor decision bringing him to the club, given his and our circumstances at the time.