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kramcpfc
11-04-2002, 12:57 AM
They do him again, beckham may miss world cup, might have broken bone in foot:sob: goodbye world cup:confused: :sob:

Stonewall
11-04-2002, 12:59 AM
shame?

selhurst star
11-04-2002, 01:04 AM
Like we had a chance.:rolleyes:

2can
11-04-2002, 01:10 AM
It's good news - it'll give Dean Austin a better chance of getting called up.

Strathclyde Eagle
11-04-2002, 01:43 AM
Apparently confirmed as a broken bone in the ankle.

Looked like a pretty rough tackle. Not seen such cynical behaviour from a Spanish side since a Cup Winners' Cup semi-final in "Roy of the Rovers" in the mid-1980s. ;)

AJ
11-04-2002, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by kramcpfc
They do him again, beckham may miss world cup, might have broken bone in foot:sob: goodbye world cup:confused: :sob:

If he has only broken a bone, instead of his foot, he may well be fit in time for the WC.

Daniel_Nash
11-04-2002, 01:45 AM
Up to 8 weeks they say, hopefully that'll be the end of it.

Jolly Norwegian
11-04-2002, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by 2can
It's good news - it'll give Dean Austin a better chance of getting called up.
Yeah, they'll need a new captain... :p

LLCOOLSTEVE
11-04-2002, 02:01 AM
Argentinian ****......I really hope Beck's heals quickly and can lead England at the world cup, he deserve's it and i feel sorry for the guy if he misses out.....


http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20875

Daniel_Nash
11-04-2002, 02:06 AM
Shouldn't matter who it is that has got injured, it was a cynical and petulant challenge that went unpunished.. and that's just wrong.

He is England captain, and since his appointment he has done so well in the role. Just think, 4 yrs ago he came back from the World Cup as public enemy #1 in the media.. and look at him now! it's not easy to turn it round like that and he has worked so hard for club and country.

To be glad someone is injured and might miss out is sick. Whoever it is.

philaire
11-04-2002, 05:33 AM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
Argentinian ****What, as opposed to the tackles that happen week in, week out in the Premier and Nationwide leagues? Predictable given that it's "our" David, that the jingoism about the sins of "foreigners" will now run rife. I'm sorry if the World Cup is denied an appearance by one of the ornaments of the game, but this is football, and in its ebb and flow such "tragedies" will occur.

Santos-er
11-04-2002, 06:23 AM
surely the point is that the argie ****** has gone out and done a job on Beckham....

Wonder how much he got paid for that? :grrr:

AJ
11-04-2002, 06:41 AM
Originally posted by Santos-er
surely the point is that the argie ****** has gone out and done a job on Beckham....

Wonder how much he got paid for that? :grrr:

Have to admit, it is kind of ironic that an Argentinian at that level would commit that kind of foul on the England captain, when England are in the same group in the WC as Argentina. Maybe, someone in the Prem should "take out" Veron to even the score.

FarmerP
11-04-2002, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by philaire
What, as opposed to the tackles that happen week in, week out in the Premier and Nationwide leagues? Predictable given that it's "our" David, that the jingoism about the sins of "foreigners" will now run rife. I'm sorry if the World Cup is denied an appearance by one of the ornaments of the game, but this is football, and in its ebb and flow such "tragedies" will occur.

I see..

Like for example, Uruguay knocking out Australia

:eek:

DennisUphill
11-04-2002, 10:52 AM
Slightly off on a tangent, but there were no cries of 'Dirty Barsteward' aimed at Nicky Butt. When he took out Harry Kewell at the start of the Leeds v Man U. game the other week.
It'll be a crying shame if it causes Beckham to be absent from the world cup. But let's face it he's no orphan when it comes to being targeted, just ask Roy 'crippler' Keane.

philaire
11-04-2002, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by FarmerP
Like for example, Uruguay knocking out AustraliaNice to have you describe Australia as an ornament to the world game. Despite tournament victories over both France and Brazil in the last 12 months, that epithet could be warranted, but other may be less generous.;)

Man of Kent
11-04-2002, 11:48 AM
Absolutely furious about this. I was not one bit surprised to discover that this man was an Argentinian. I'll never be proved right or wrong but, IMVHO , (polite nod of head to you m'lud), but if this guy wasn't asked to 'do' Beckham I'll be very surprised. He was finishing off the job that the other dirty ******* started last week.

Ah well says Mr Ferguson, he'll have other European Cup ties and World Cups, yet again a Scot, in charge of our best English football team makes light of England's predicatment. Want to withdraw any more players Sir Alex.

Apologies for this xenophobic rant, but with the diving and poor tackles thatare being put about at the moment it is like going back to European Competition 15 years ago.

:grrr:

sydney eagle
11-04-2002, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Man of Kent
Absolutely furious about this. I was not one bit surprised to discover that this man was an Argentinian. I'll never be proved right or wrong but, IMVHO , (polite nod of head to you m'lud), but if this guy wasn't asked to 'do' Beckham I'll be very surprised. He was finishing off the job that the other dirty ******* started last week.

Ah well says Mr Fergusson, he'll have other European Cup ties and World Cups, yet again a Scot, in charge of our best English football team makes light of England's predicatment. Want to withdraw any more players Sir Alex.

Apologies for this xenophobic rant, but with the diving and poor tackles thatare being put about at the moment it is like going back to European Competition 15 years ago.

:grrr: Could not have said it better myself.......

I wonder what would be said If Tony Adams gives Veron a right kicking in a few weeks...oh well,we can only hope now:grrr:

hellsbells
11-04-2002, 12:04 PM
Very Bad tackle, Argentinian? Not suprising really.

The main question in my mind is why the hell was Fergie playing him anyway? The Deportivo players had it in for him last week, that wasn't going to change for this game, and surely it would have been more sensible to 'rest him'. He does that with Van Kneesallwrong so why not Beckham? He can't argue that he's 'too key a player', I thought the main goal scorer was normally a 'key player' too! Maybe not and that's just my slanted view! Was it just that he didn't think it would be wise considering Keane was out? And I suppose he knows how good Deportivo are, and have been in the past at Old Trafford.

I'd LOVE it if we beat Argentina in June, don't see it happening, but I would LOVE it. :veryangry :veryangry

Strathclyde Eagle
11-04-2002, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by AJ
Have to admit, it is kind of ironic that an Argentinian at that level would commit that kind of foul on the England captain, when England are in the same group in the WC as Argentina. Maybe, someone in the Prem should "take out" Veron to even the score.
Not advocating it, but surely Veron will be a marked man from now until the season's end?

BTW it was Des Lynam who reported it as a broken ankle. Nice one Des. :rolleyes:

The Omen
11-04-2002, 03:07 PM
I'm really, really pissed off. :grrr:

I don't believe it has anything to do with conspiracy theorys involving Argentina, but I do believe Deportivo wanted to go in hard on Beckham - hoping to scare him out of the game.

It's so frustrating, he is a major player for England. I still think we can qualify out of our group without him, and then he can join us in giving France a good game in the second round.

bucketbongeagle
11-04-2002, 03:18 PM
yeah I think the Omen is probably right but it just seems like we're always being cheeted and then beaten by the Argies. I reckon Beckham will probably be back in time anyway they said 8 weeks, WC starts in 8 weeks so with a bit of luck, he'll be back to full fitness, rested and rarring to go.

Merton Eagle
11-04-2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by The Omen
I don't believe it has anything to do with conspiracy theorys involving Argentina, but I do believe Deportivo wanted to go in hard on Beckham - hoping to scare him out of the game.

It's so frustrating, he is a major player for England. I still think we can qualify out of our group without him, and then he can join us in giving France a good game in the second round. I think this is the most accurate assumption.

Elephant with mouse gyp
11-04-2002, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by bucketbongeagle
yeah I think the Omen is probably right but it just seems like we're always being cheeted and then beaten by the Argies.

Plus the fact they are, and have long been, a considerably better team than England.

lightweight
11-04-2002, 04:12 PM
It does seem a little more than ironic that it was an Argentinian that did it - and then not to get booked straight away because of a mix up :grrr: Have to say I think without Beckham our chances of progressing beyond the group stages are very slim. Very disappointing and very unfair for him, when he was instrumental in our qualification for the tournament.

pallet
11-04-2002, 04:29 PM
Hand of God, Becks kick that the Argie went down like he was hit by a train ,now this!! It goes to show that they will gone to any lenghts to win. However it looks like he might be fit by June and atfer having a rest should be raring to go. Lets hopw we dump the cheating gits out.

bucketbongeagle
11-04-2002, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp


Plus the fact they are, and have long been, a considerably better team than England.

I thought on the day we were the better team in France, when you consider we played the 2nd half with 10 men and Sol scored a perfectly good header, but yeah over the last 20 years they have been better than us.

pete eagle
11-04-2002, 04:40 PM
does this Duscher figure in the Argentina team? Because I'm sure Mr Beckham would love to meet him on the pitch again;)

fieldy
11-04-2002, 04:42 PM
I'm convinced that was pre meditated attack by an Argentinian to knock Beckham out of the World Cup:veryangry it would appear therefore that they rate England as more of a danger than a lot of people on these boards! not suprising really considering most of you will probably be supporting Ireland because of Clinton:rolleyes: But to suggest our chances and now zero without him is ludicrous, he is a wide midfield man for Christ's sake, yes he is a great player but we have many great players and I'm sure someone else will come in and do a fine job, are you telling me Man Utd's chances of winning the European Cup are gone without him? No of course not!

Merton Eagle
11-04-2002, 04:48 PM
Fieldy, if it wasn't for him we may not be there, or we wouldn't have beaten Greece anyway.

Elephant with mouse gyp
11-04-2002, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by pallet
Hand of God, Becks kick that the Argie went down like he was hit by a train ,now this!! It goes to show that they will gone to any lenghts to win.

Owen's dive for the penalty, Shearer's elbows and general nastiness...

But they're are a deal better now than they were then. By the way, I didn't see Depor's players holding back against Veron, either - he took a couple of hefty clumps as well.

Merton Eagle
11-04-2002, 04:56 PM
I can see the Sun headline on the day of the game now, "Falklands II" Pathetic.

AJ1969
11-04-2002, 05:07 PM
Having been to the wonderful lean meat infested land of arg several times I can safely say that this was a set up. They would do anything to get their greasy hands on the world cup. The argy press are convinced it was a set up and so am I. You only have to look at the tackle and see the look in douchebag's eye to see he meant it. Oh well, we're now a key player short and he's 14 million pesos richer for it - and we'll still win the world cup !!!!

11-04-2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash
Shouldn't matter who it is that has got injured, it was a cynical and petulant challenge that went unpunished.. and that's just wrong.

He is England captain, and since his appointment he has done so well in the role. Just think, 4 yrs ago he came back from the World Cup as public enemy #1 in the media.. and look at him now! it's not easy to turn it round like that and he has worked so hard for club and country.

To be glad someone is injured and might miss out is sick. Whoever it is.

Agreed, Beckham always gives 110% for england is consisently one if not the best player on the pitch for us, how anyone can say it is a good thing clearly not watching him. He deserves to go more than any other player and he could miss out.

Elephant with mouse gyp
11-04-2002, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by AJ1969
The argy press are convinced it was a set up and so am I.

Any links for that comment?

selhurstparkflyer
11-04-2002, 05:34 PM
I have to say that the bloke's defence that t wa an accident simply does notw ash- this is teh second time in 8 days they have gone for him.

I, however, am a little more positive;

Beckham is very fit and always gets over his injuries very quickly. If he gets over this in 5-6 weeks, which is entirely possible, this could be just the rest England needs him to have. :)

OOCO
11-04-2002, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by pete eagle
does this Duscher figure in the Argentina team? Because I'm sure Mr Beckham would love to meet him on the pitch again;)

Aldo has only been capped once.
Perhaps now everyone has calmed down I can make my more credible opinion. Duscher does not often play for Depor, but is renowned for being a tough player. I feel that Javier brought him in to beef up the Depor midfield with a number of tougher players missing. He makes tackles like that when he does play most of the time (IMHO I think he did get the ball). The fact that he is a Argie is a coincidence. No-one would have complained as much if Tristan had done his ankle last week. The media have hyped this one up big time. I concur with philaire. Tackles happen like this every week in the Prem. It's because he's an Argie.

Also, if Becks has only had a normall fracture, he will be out of plaster in 3-4 weeks. I would put a large amount of nosh on him going to the WC. Again the media has worried everyone by publicly saying he will be out for ages. They are about as qualified as Mr Lynam in these matters.

Don't worry people Becks WILL be at the WC.

Sunny Fan
11-04-2002, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp


Any links for that comment?

Have just scanned Argentine press and cthe closest to suggestion comes from the sport's daily Olé, which contains this paragraph (reaction in Buenos Aires):
"Primeras repercusiones en Buenos Aires. 1) Duscher héroe nacional. Y si Beckham queda afuera, mejor (algo parecido sucedió en Francia 98, cuando el Cholo Simeone exageró la caída después de una falta e hizo expulsar al inglés). 2) No hay nada peor que festejar la desgracia ajena. En todo caso digamos que para la Selección Argentina sería un alivio. Nada más. 3) Un bajón. Los cracks deben jugar siempre, aunque sean rivales. Porque si les ganamos se disfruta el doble."

simply, reaction:
1. Duscher national hero, if Beckam's out of the finals, all the better for Argentina (mention of Simeone's exaggerated fall in 98)
2. There's nothing worse than celebrating someone else's bad luck. It's good luck for Argentina, nothing more.
3. Sad. Top players should always play, even if they're rivals. Because if we then win, it's better.
Here's the whole link to the article (http://www.ole.com.ar/diario/2002/04/11/f-371262.htm)

Apart from that, I can only see objective reporting (unless I've missed some, only did a quick scan through Clarín and Olé, 'cos they're the best on-line papers.

Think it's a fairly fair assessment and while he might have gone out to "do a job" I think it's pushing it to say that "The Argy press are convinced it was a set-up"

Sunny Fan
11-04-2002, 05:50 PM
Oh, and they point out that 7 weeks=56 days and the England-Argentina match is in 57 days:)

Sunny Fan
11-04-2002, 05:52 PM
Another quick postscript: Duscher caught him on the right shin and he broke a bone in his left foot

Elephant with mouse gyp
11-04-2002, 06:03 PM
Thanks for that Sunnyfan. I genuinely want Beckham at the World Cup, mainly for reason 3 given by Ole.

I think Argentina's top-loaded side would force Beckham back to help cover for Gary Neville, who I reckon is destined to have one of his memorable nightmares in an England shirt come the big game.

Steve in Phoenix
11-04-2002, 06:13 PM
Well lets not forget Beckham wouldnt be able to train and would still lack match-fitness as well as physical fitness.

I too would think he'll be back. The media was full of how he was going to be out for weeks after the first tackle yet he was back 7 days later.

OOCO
11-04-2002, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
Well lets not forget Beckham wouldnt be able to train and would still lack match-fitness as well as physical fitness.



If its a simple fracture he will be back. They will make him work out. Also I recon that he won't get any muscle wastage because they might put him in a brace. He might not be completely match fit though.

Sunny Fan
11-04-2002, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by AJ1969
Having been to the wonderful lean meat infested land of arg several times I can safely say that this was a set up. They would do anything to get their greasy hands on the world cup. The argy press are convinced it was a set up and so am I. You only have to look at the tackle and see the look in douchebag's eye to see he meant it. Oh well, we're now a key player short and he's 14 million pesos richer for it - and we'll still win the world cup !!!!

Having also spent time in the wonderful country of Argentina and covered it extensively in my work I can safely say that I have no idea if it was a set-up or not.

Duscher's a dirty player and he made a terrible foul. It's very sad for Beckham and for England that it resulted in a broken bone.

I very much doubt he's 14 million pesos richer. Even with a crumbling peso, that's still 6 million dollars.

Oh, and if you have lean meat it generally doesn't get your hands all that greasy.

Think I already answered the other flawed comment:)

anti-addick
11-04-2002, 06:47 PM
I am utterly gutted for him and England.

The tackle was cynical and I am convinced that he's was made a target by many of the Deportivo players for weeks. I hope it's a scam and it's all exaggerated, then Becks plays as a surprise in the match the Argy cheats. If not, then Veron had better watch out in the Premiership, they'll be some angry revenge tackles flying in on him.

Ralph
11-04-2002, 06:55 PM
Well, Im working with an Argi Lad at the moment and the general consensus from him is "Dont flatter yourselves".

"This is just the English attempt to right off their own chances, and blame someone else, knowing full well we're no good anyway!!"

Unfortunately I had no come back!!!

:confused:

Sunny Fan
11-04-2002, 07:05 PM
Sky Sports now reporting it may be just 6 weeks

Have a look at this little link (http://msn.skysports.com/skysports/article/0,,1-1048498,00.html)

anti-addick
11-04-2002, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp


Plus the fact they are, and have long been, a considerably better team than England.

I don't agree, I don't think they are better than us, certainly not considerably. Last time's 2-2 was a fair result, we are stronger whereas they haven't changed a great deal this time. They may have been in '86 but that doesn't count now.
Fancy names, large Spanish salaries, long dark hair in a girls hairband with stubbled chins means nothing.

Sunny Fan
11-04-2002, 07:51 PM
They are an improved team, and are still a better team than England in my opinion. The match against them in '98 was close I'll grant you, and this year's probably will be, but they're still a superior team. The cynicism of 1990s isn't in so much evidence now, and skill is shining through. Look at the 3 goals created by Verón last night for some small evidence. And he doesn't even 'fit in' with Man Utd's system supposedly.
Oh, and cheap and inaccurate racial stereotyping adds nothing to your arguments:)

anti-addick
11-04-2002, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Merton Eagle
I can see the Sun headline on the day of the game now, "Falklands II" Pathetic.


Ho ho ho!! It certainly will be. If we meet the Germans they'll have Vollers face super imposed onto Hitlers body at the Nuremburg rally.

SKATE
11-04-2002, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Ralph

"This is just the English attempt to right off their own chances, and blame someone else, knowing full well we're no good anyway!!"

Unfortunately I had no come back!!!

:confused:

The cynic in me has to agree with this. It shows how poor the England squad is if everyone's panicking cos the (IMVHO) overarrated Beckham may not play. We should not be so reliant on individual players - and no-one should be indispensible.

Elephant with mouse gyp
11-04-2002, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by anti-addick


I don't think they are better than us, certainly not considerably. Last time's 2-2 was a fair result, we are stronger whereas they haven't changed a great deal this time. They may have been in '86 but that doesn't count now.

They have changed fundamentally, much to the amazement of many Argentines, who were intially sceptical of the Bielsa system.

I agree that England are also stronger overall, but they haven't progresed to the same level. The main reason England played quite well against Argentina last time was because of Owen's stunning bow on the world stage. The element of surprise from that quarter isn't there this time. Also, Hoddle knew you have to pack the midfield against teams with generally better midfielders than you, something I'm not convinced Sven has grasped quite fully yet.

Nationalist bias aside, those of you who haven't had the pleasure of seeing the current Argentina side are in for a nice surprise. In my view, they are the best thing to happen to international football since the Dutch 1970s team.

anti-addick
11-04-2002, 08:31 PM
Sunny Fan:

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/worldcupfinals2002/team_sections/argentina.html

Check out the photos, most have stubble, some have long hair. For your typical Argentine check out Aleyda, Batistuta and Sorin - big girlies they are.

Here's Burgos too:

http://www.soccerage.com/en/13/76975.html


If you can find a full squad pic then that would be great - google turned up little, but to summarise they are a bunch of girls.

The Omen
11-04-2002, 08:42 PM
I remember going to Germany for a football tournament - we said all their players looked like girls because a lot of them had long hair. I seem to recall tormenting one of them with 'Annie' comments.

We then lost 18-0 and in true English fashion gatecrashed their changing room and beat the living daylights out of 7 goal hero 'Annie'.

We were the under 15 team - you should have seen the match from our under 19s!! Both managers were sent off and so were 6 players (3 from each side!).

anti-addick
11-04-2002, 08:49 PM
That's no guide, footy tours are simply p*ss ups, i've never known an english team go abroad and win...........ever

It works both ways, at Worldnet we have teams from AEK Athens and RC Lens take part - they always get a right hiding. It means nothing. I play regular 6 a side with work colleagues from all over Europe, some are decent, most are crap.

Didn't Wales just draw with Argentina?

Sunny Fan
11-04-2002, 08:51 PM
I'm not going to get drawn into a juvenile argument about hair length which could easily be countered with Beckham wearing a sarong, David Seaman's hair, the English penchant for cropped hair which could be described elsewhere as thuggish. Footballers have always, and will always, have bad hair sense. I also still think that such comments add nothing at all to the argument you were presenting (which come to think of it, sounded a bit like "they're foreign, so must be worse than us coz we're English innit";) )

On another note, a quick look at Fifa's site today reveals worries in Argentina about their lengthening injury list (http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/en/020410/1/cxw.html)

Must have tripped over their hair or something:)

lightweight
11-04-2002, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by SKATE


We should not be so reliant on individual players - and no-one should be indispensible.

Agreed - except I went to the qualifying games where it was so noticeable that Beckham was head and shoulders (metaphorically before anyone argues with that) above the rest. Losing a player like that who has been instrumental in the team winning games has to be a huge blow.

I see even the the Prime Minister is getting in on the act commenting on it too!

bucketbongeagle
11-04-2002, 09:56 PM
Great article from fellow Palace fan and all round good bloke

http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/00000006D893.htm

Daniel_Nash
11-04-2002, 10:32 PM
When he comes back, and i am sure he will do all possible to make it for the Argie game it would make him more determined to go out and try and win the game for England. It would do that to me anyway.

In CM, Aldo Duscher is Argentine/Austrian... could the reason he has been capped once be to do with making sure he doesn't play for Austria?

I think we can look forward to a feisty game in June ;) Hopefully i will have finished my exams! i will not be happy if i have one on that day!!!

LLCOOLSTEVE
11-04-2002, 10:34 PM
From what i have just heard, Ryan Giggs had the same injury (Fractured second metatarsal) a couple of years ago and was back in the UTD line up 36 days later......fingers crossed!


:)

The Omen
11-04-2002, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash

In CM, Aldo Duscher is Argentine/Austrian... could the reason he has been capped once be to do with making sure he doesn't play for Austria?


His cap was in the Olympics and I don't think that is seen as an official cap due to the tournament being for players under the age of 23.

So 'officially' he has never played for the full international Argentinian side.

Steve in Phoenix
11-04-2002, 10:53 PM
I havent seen much of Argentina in the last couple of years and their domination of their qualifying group was impressive. However as I mentioned in another thread Im not feeling convinced they deserve their tag of co-favorites with France and Italy anymore.. Can somebody tell me what young talent they have? All their names seem pretty old and relatively currently unproductive - Ayala, Batigol, Zanetti, Crespo (who I dont rate anyway). I certainly wasnt awed when Heskey scared the daylights out of them.. and a 1-1 draw with Wales? Saviola yes.. but its still early for him and its not even sure they'll take him. Veron is about the only one truly at his peak ? But like I say.. I havent followed them much so maybe someone could correct me if Im wrong.

France have a much more impressive depth of squad players.. the players they dont take would make a good team and Italy, while not being as deep still have lots of players at their peak or still very productive.. a wealth of goalies, Nesta, Totti, Vieri and co. They also showed an ability to overcome any weakness at Euro 2000.

AJ
11-04-2002, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
I havent seen much of Argentina in the last couple of years and their domination of their qualifying group was impressive. However as I mentioned in another thread Im not feeling convinced they deserve their tag of co-favorites with France and Italy anymore.. Can somebody tell me what young talent they have? All their names seem pretty old and relatively currently unproductive - Ayala, Batigol, Zanetti, Crespo (who I dont rate anyway). I certainly wasnt awed when Heskey scared the daylights out of them.. and a 1-1 draw with Wales? Saviola yes.. but its still early for him and its not even sure they'll take him. Veron is about the only one truly at his peak ? But like I say.. I havent followed them much so maybe someone could correct me if Im wrong.

France have a much more impressive depth of squad players.. the players they dont take would make a good team and Italy, while not being as deep still have lots of players at their peak or still very productive.. a wealth of goalies, Nesta, Totti, Vieri and co. They also showed an ability to overcome any weakness at Euro 2000.

I cannot name the sods, but, there are a few of them in the Serie A, who at ages of 23 and under and playing at that level and doing well.
Also, watch some of the Argie football on FSW and it is a very high standard.

On the Beckham tackle. I am all for brushing off the cobwebs of the Hermes and setting sail for the South Atlantic
:clown:

aadams
11-04-2002, 11:16 PM
Did the deportivo player hit Beckhams left leg?. Looking at the photo's in todays sun his left foot was bent backwards before the tackle, also the tackle was on his right leg.
He should have been given a red card for the tackle, but was'nt, justice was done in the end.
Perhaps this leaves the door open for another player, young and determined. BRING ON TOMMY BLACK.

Gooders
12-04-2002, 01:00 AM
No Beckham = no chance.

It shouldn't be that way but it is, so we'd better all be hoping that he comes back in time. Or perhaps there are some people out there that still think the opposition will be afraid of Heskey?!!!

I thought two-footed tackles were outlawed?

If they're not, they should be.

There is no place in football for these kind of tackles and they serve no footballing purpose - the player making the tackle cannot hope to retain control of the situation (or the ball) and is highly likely to do serious injury to his opponent.

Two-footed tackles are easy to spot.

They should result in a straight red card.

We'd soon eradicate them then.

AnotherPete
12-04-2002, 01:55 AM
Errrrrrrr . . am I the only one here that still hates Moan U ?

Becks out (and no, I don't want him in any personal pain, I just don't want him playing for them), Chief Thug Keane out, Veron a target . . . heck, they could end up with nothing this season. That would be delicious.

LLCOOLSTEVE
12-04-2002, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by AnotherPete
Errrrrrrr . . am I the only one here that still hates Moan U ?



This aint a Man Utd thread though, its about wanting the best for our national team and its player's in this year's world cup.......:)

trufan
12-04-2002, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by Merton Eagle
I can see the Sun headline on the day of the game now, "Falklands II" Pathetic.

Originally posted by anti-addick
Ho ho ho!! It certainly will be. If we meet the Germans they'll have Vollers face super imposed onto Hitlers body at the Nuremburg rally.


Excellent! I take it you're both available for shifts? :rolleyes:

brighton_eagle
12-04-2002, 04:00 AM
My understanding is that Argentina have their own problems with the 'alleged' rift between Batistuta and Crespo....and the coach who can't or won't play them in the same team. Plus the talk of rifts between Batistuta and other senior players like Veron.

I doubt very much this is a conspiracy. As hellsbells (theres a girl who knows her footie) said, why was he playing at all? Manu are 2-0 up, away goals, as good as through, and he has just returned from an injury sustained in the last leg. Why not rest him and bring on a young player? Or has Fergie run out of young talent?

brighton_eagle
12-04-2002, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by anti-addick
If you can find a full squad pic then that would be great - google turned up little, but to summarise they are a bunch of girls.

Individual pics for all of the players:

http://www2.afa.org.ar

zonin2000
12-04-2002, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
Can somebody tell me what young talent they have?


Saviola, Riquelme, Aimar, Gallardo, D'Allesandro.


It's quite frightening actually.


Oh and Sunny Fan, the article you posted earlier links to another one headlined: "Para mí no fue ni foul" (In my view, it wasn't a foul) which Duscher has said about his tackle (football tackle).


Duscher está seguro de que no es el villano de la película. "No soy un mala leche", le dijo a Duscher está seguro de que no es el villano de la película. "No soy un mala leche", le dijo a Olé.

Duscher is sure that he isn't the villain of the piece- "I'm not bad milk (meaning, 'a bad egg')," he told Olé.


http://www.ole.com.ar/diario/2002/04/11/f-371263.htm

lightweight
12-04-2002, 01:45 PM
I see Uri Gellar has now got into the act - saying if we all concentrate on Beckham's foot enough it will heal quicker... not jumping on the bandwagon at all eh....

Elephant with mouse gyp
12-04-2002, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
Veron is about the only one truly at his peak ?

Others above have answered your main question, but you have hit on the one thing that worries Argentina fans - the team is seen as overly dependent on Veron. He is given a more exciting role for Argentina than for United and most of the play seems to go through him. What I find compelling about the tactics Bielsa employs is that rather than surrounding his main creative force with defensive midfielders as tradition would dictate, the coach usually does the opposite by including more attacking players for opposition defences to worry about, so giving Veron more room.

I agree France look incredibly strong. On paper they should better than either the last World Cup because they have better strikers now, or the European Championships when, despite the results, I didn't think they looked in top gear. Tactically, they are fairly ordinary, however.

Steve in Phoenix
12-04-2002, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by zonin2000
Saviola, Riquelme, Aimar, Gallardo, D'Allesandro.

It's quite frightening actually.


Yup - I actually meant what young talent they had that was reaching their peak for the World Cup.. I already mentioned Saviola, but he has barely ever played for Argentina and isnt even a certainty to be in the squad. Same for D'Allesandro I think? They're more Joe Cole than David Beckham.

Aimar? Supposedly one of the great talents on a big transfer in Europe.. I aint heard a lot from him.. what's he doing? 1 in 14 internationals? Hmm.. a tad overrated methinks.

Gallardo? Who's he? Has he even played for Argentina?

Riquelme - ahh yeah he looks like quality.

I dunno.. Ariel Ortega was supposed to be Maradona II.. he has 18 in 87 games.. I still think Argentina are top 3.. I just think France and Italy have a better chance.

lightweight
12-04-2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp


Others above have answered your main question, but you have hit on the one thing that worries Argentina fans - the team is seen as overly dependent on Veron.

sounds familiar!

Sunny Fan
12-04-2002, 03:40 PM
:)

Ruskin Old Boy
12-04-2002, 04:00 PM
Don't worry everyone, Glenn Hoddle has it sorted:


"Hoddle tells Sven: Pick Anderton

Glenn Hoddle today told Sven-Goran Eriksson that Darren Anderton is the ideal World Cup replacement for David Beckham.

The England captain is expected to be out for up to six weeks after breaking a bone in his foot, throwing the Swede's World Cup plans into chaos.

Anderton was not included in Eriksson's squad for the last friendly against Italy at Elland Road but Spurs manager Hoddle, who took Anderton to the last World Cup in France and played him ahead of Beckham, insisted he could do the job if the Manchester United player fails to recover in time.

"Darren has been called up into recent squads and I think he's had a great season for us. He can play in that position and that would run through Sven's mind," said the former England coach. "

And we think we have problems with TF



:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

AJ
12-04-2002, 04:24 PM
I think Beckham should go to the World Cup and with 5 minutes left of the game against Argentina, he should be brought on. His task will be to take out(of the World Cup), Argentina's best player.
If he is lucky and doesn't get a straight red, then he could take out another. He would be a hero back in England.

Revenge is sweet:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Elephant with mouse gyp
12-04-2002, 04:41 PM
Anderton in excellent player whose image has never recoved from the sicknote thing.

He usually does well for England and was highly rated not just by Hoddle but also by Venables, who made him a key member of the side.

I haven't seen much of him this season but everyone that has says he has been better than ever.

philaire
12-04-2002, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by AJ
I think Beckham should go to the World Cup and with 5 minutes left of the game against Argentina, he should be brought on. His task will be to take out Argentina's best player.I don't know what your highly respected newspapers are feeding you all over there, but I can guess. What arrant nonsense.

I agree that it was a bad tackle, probably worthy of a red card.
I agree that England will miss Beckham terribly.
But to hint that this was some conspiracy by Argentina beggars belief IMHO.

This tackle could have happened to Beckham at anytime and anywhere courtesy of anyone. And if he's that precious to Man U (and England) then what was he doing on the pitch half fit in a tie that was 90% in the bag for Man U before a ball (or man) had been kicked in the 2nd leg?

Sunny Fan
12-04-2002, 05:06 PM
There's not many that think it's a conspiracy

philaire
12-04-2002, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Sunny Fan
There's not many that think it's a conspiracy Perhaps conspiracy is not the right word then; rather the implication that the offending player was carrying out some premeditated act on behalf of or for the benefit of Argentina, thus necessitating "revenge" as outlined above.

Sunny Fan
12-04-2002, 05:11 PM
Nope, don't believe that either:)

philaire
12-04-2002, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Sunny Fan
Nope, don't believe that either:) er, how about, "why don't you all stop sulking about it and accept that Argentina were going to get the better of England anyway" - or is that too inflammatory?;)

brighton_eagle
12-04-2002, 05:18 PM
If he cant play thats a shame. You know why? Because yet again they'll be a big 'What If' hanging over it, and even though we get knocked out in the group stage, everyone will always say "If Becks was fit we would have won it".

Much better that he plays, we lose, everyone realises that we were never good enough.

Sunny Fan
12-04-2002, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by philaire
er, how about, "why don't you all stop sulking about it and accept that Argentina were going to get the better of England anyway" - or is that too inflammatory?;)
Yep, I'll go along with that:p

OOCO
12-04-2002, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix



Aimar? Supposedly one of the great talents on a big transfer in Europe.. I aint heard a lot from him.. what's he doing? 1 in 14 internationals? Hmm.. a tad overrated methinks.


I just think France and Italy have a better chance.

Rubbish. Aimar is one of the best midfielders in the Spanish league. Just because you have not heard anything about him does not mean he's overrated. I've heard nothing about Landon Donovan but that does not mean he is overrated.

He has only scored 1 in 14 because he is a midfielder. Beckham's rate I'm sure is worse. If you could have seen Pablo in his last international match, he ran the entire show. He will be a major thawn in Englands side.

After that rant, I agree with your sentiments about France and Italy.

Steve in Phoenix
12-04-2002, 08:01 PM
Its true I didnt see Aimar in his last international and dont see a lot of Spanish football. I didnt say I'd heard nothing, just that I hadnt heard much and had expected a player of his supposed reputation and transfer fee (how much? I dont know.. wasnt paying much attention) to make a bigger splash. Whenever I saw Valencia, I didnt see him running the show. Whenever I heard about the best La Liga players.. I didnt hear his name. Thats what I mean really.

The Beckham comparision isnt that accurate. Beckham led his country literally to the WC with the goal that sealed qualification. He's recognised as England's best player and one of the top 10 in the world. Aimar isnt making that kind of noise.

Incidentially Beckham has 5 in 45 internationals, actually slightly better. He's also a more conventional midfielder than the attacking role Aimar has. Also club football is telling - Aimar has 4 in 27 games, Beckham 11 in 28. Soccerassociation.com shows him as having just one season where he managed to score more than 4 goals in a season. So thats why I wonder just how good this guy really is or if he's over-rated like Ortega was before him. Maybe Im misled, but Im just not impressed.

selhurst
12-04-2002, 09:53 PM
;)

karl
13-04-2002, 12:51 AM
Beckham should come to the world cup because he could come on 10 minutes befor the game finishes we get a free kick at the edge of the penalty are and bam england are through

OOCO
13-04-2002, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
Its true I didnt see Aimar in his last international and dont see a lot of Spanish football. I didnt say I'd heard nothing, just that I hadnt heard much and had expected a player of his supposed reputation and transfer fee (how much? I dont know.. wasnt paying much attention) to make a bigger splash. Whenever I saw Valencia, I didnt see him running the show. Whenever I heard about the best La Liga players.. I didnt hear his name. Thats what I mean really.

The Beckham comparision isnt that accurate. Beckham led his country literally to the WC with the goal that sealed qualification. He's recognised as England's best player and one of the top 10 in the world. Aimar isnt making that kind of noise.

Incidentially Beckham has 5 in 45 internationals, actually slightly better. He's also a more conventional midfielder than the attacking role Aimar has. Also club football is telling - Aimar has 4 in 27 games, Beckham 11 in 28. Soccerassociation.com shows him as having just one season where he managed to score more than 4 goals in a season. So thats why I wonder just how good this guy really is or if he's over-rated like Ortega was before him. Maybe Im misled, but Im just not impressed.

Fair enough. I still feel, being a Valencia follower, that Pablo is more likely to set up a goal than score. He signed for about £12M, which is a bargin.
This is a quote from Guillem Balague from El Mundo.

"Valencia, on the other hand, are starting looking like the AC Milan of the nineties. They move backwards and forwards like a migrating village - they all attack, they all defend.
"Coach Rafa Benitez doesn't even need a striker as he uses wingers Angulo and Pablo Aimar up front. Watch the match only to enjoy the elegance of the Argentinian, at the peak of his game since his arrival from River Plate."
I suppose the Beckham comparision is inaccurate as Pablo is not established like Becks.
I feel that you might want to watch out for him at the WC. Saying that, I bet he does not get on!
:rolleyes:

Steve in Phoenix
13-04-2002, 03:25 AM
I dont want to watch out for any Argies :D I want to see them all have stinkers of a game.

Its true that Beckham would also cost a lot lot more than $12m so its not really a fair comparision on that side either.

Daniel_Nash
13-04-2002, 06:05 PM
Maybe the rest will do Beckham good, couple of weeks off without worrying whether he will play or not and then come back fit and healthy for England.

Celestial Empire
13-04-2002, 06:10 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by OOCO
[B]

This is a quote from Guillem Balague from El Mundo.

"Coach Rafa Benitez doesn't even need a striker as he uses wingers Angulo and Pablo Aimar up front. Watch the match only to enjoy the elegance of the Argentinian, at the peak of his game since his arrival from River Plate."

Yeah, but they haven't seen Kieron Dyer yet have they ?

OOCO
14-04-2002, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by Celestial Empire


Yeah, but they haven't seen Kieron Dyer yet have they ?

Not exactly at his peak this season eh?

PeterH
17-04-2002, 05:04 AM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp


Plus the fact they are, and have long been, a considerably better team than England.

Certainly do not think this is true, we should have won our last game against them. I still do not see an awful lot wrong with Shearers challenge that disallowed Campbells goal. Would have been interested in the decision if it had been at the other end.

I think they are a bit better than us. Probably more so now they have taken Beckham out. We blooming well owe them big style.

Come on Becks son.

PeterH
17-04-2002, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by fieldy
I'm convinced that was pre meditated attack by an Argentinian to knock Beckham out of the World Cup:veryangry it would appear therefore that they rate England as more of a danger than a lot of people on these boards! not suprising really considering most of you will probably be supporting Ireland because of Clinton:rolleyes: But to suggest our chances and now zero without him is ludicrous, he is a wide midfield man for Christ's sake, yes he is a great player but we have many great players and I'm sure someone else will come in and do a fine job, are you telling me Man Utd's chances of winning the European Cup are gone without him? No of course not!


Like a great deal of this Fieldy, but he is our Zidane or Figo and its that difference that gives you a real chance. Other than the methodothical Germans all WC winners have one absolute playmaker. A Maradona or a Zidane. This was to be Becks time.

PeterH
17-04-2002, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by philaire
er, how about, "why don't you all stop sulking about it and accept that Argentina were going to get the better of England anyway" - or is that too inflammatory?;)


Lets wait and see Pom Basher, at least we are there. Managed to avoid Brazil and still get beaten by Uruguay.

Lets see how England do before we all knock them again, sometimes I am really ashamed its as though people delight in our failures. We are there and we have a chance.

Personally I may well stake my readies on Italy this time. Although France looked good even against a p1sspoor Scots side.

Batistuta maybe out, well at least we may not have him prancing about telling the ref who to send off and who to not.

BTW Argentina is a fabulous country with really nice people and the most fabulous steaks, but this is football and we should not let small matters nieties like these distract us.

Elephant with mouse gyp
17-04-2002, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by PeterH

I still do not see an awful lot wrong with Shearers challenge that disallowed Campbells goal.

I would say about half the time he would get away with it in this country but on the international stage, no one is allowed to do that kind of thing. From an England point of view, the joke is he didn't need to do it, but that's Shearer for you.

17-04-2002, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle
If he cant play thats a shame. You know why? Because yet again they'll be a big 'What If' hanging over it, and even though we get knocked out in the group stage, everyone will always say "If Becks was fit we would have won it".

Much better that he plays, we lose, everyone realises that we were never good enough.

So much cynicism!

Even without Becks this is the best team we have taken to a World Cup since 1990.

With Sven in charge to make sensible decisions, and with a slice of luck we could go a long way.

Why are people always so quick to slate our national team?

Anyway, I fully expect Becks to have made a full recovery and start against Sweden.

Can you honestly say that this team has no chance whatsoever?

.....................Seamen.....................

............Campbell....Ferdinand............
Neville....................................Bridge

..............Gerrard....Scholes...............
Beckham...................................Dyer

................Owen.....Fowler................

Looks pretty good to me.

By the way, if Becks is injured who do people see being his replacement.

There aren't too many right midfielders out there - only Parlour and Anderton spring to mind.

Sunny Fan
17-04-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered

So much cynicism!

Even without Becks this is the best team we have taken to a World Cup since 1990.

This is the second team we've taken to the World Cup since 1990:moo:

brighton_eagle
18-04-2002, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered


So much cynicism!

Even without Becks this is the best team we have taken to a World Cup since 1990.

With Sven in charge to make sensible decisions, and with a slice of luck we could go a long way.

Why are people always so quick to slate our national team?

Anyway, I fully expect Becks to have made a full recovery and start against Sweden.

Can you honestly say that this team has no chance whatsoever?

.....................Seamen.....................

............Campbell....Ferdinand............
Neville....................................Bridge

..............Gerrard....Scholes...............
Beckham...................................Dyer

................Owen.....Fowler................

Looks pretty good to me.

By the way, if Becks is injured who do people see being his replacement.

There aren't too many right midfielders out there - only Parlour and Anderton spring to mind.

Not cynicism....realism. A few more people could do with a good dose of it round here, and maybe they wouldn't be calling for a mangers resignation 2 minutes after he got the job!!

There are some clear positives to this team, clearly, but my main concern is Sven's ongoing desire to play route 1 football. I think it will give us results against some of the lesser sides (like Germany!!!) but will struggle against higher quality teams. I also think we have a BIG problem in defence, where we just don't have a settled defensive pairing.

If Becks doesn't play, I think we saw last night that there are several players who could play there, Gerrard, Murphy, Dyer for example.

Elephant with mouse gyp
18-04-2002, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle

my main concern is Sven's ongoing desire to play route 1 football. I think it will give us results against some of the lesser sides (like Germany!!!) but will struggle against higher quality teams. I also think we have a BIG problem in defence, where we just don't have a settled defensive pairing.
.

My thoughts exactly, though if he's brave and puts Joe Cole in we may both be wrong.

brighton_eagle
18-04-2002, 02:04 PM
Absolutely, and I think Cole could play on the left, if he is allowed freedom to come inside.

bucketbongeagle
18-04-2002, 02:14 PM
Excuse me for being optimistic but I think England are one of half a dozen teams who could feasibly win it, having said that I would say that France and Argentina look like the best 2, after that I would say Brazil, Italy then probably England. I think this team, especially if Becks is back in time is probably better than the 1990 side which finished fourth.

Ruskin Old Boy
18-04-2002, 04:32 PM
Just spotted this story :)


'Limping biscuits' in sympathy for Beckham


A supermarket's David Beckham gingerbread man has now been given a bandage to indicate the player's broken foot.

Safeway says it was days away from launching the WorldCup biscuit, but decided to postpone it while the nation waited to see if he recovered.

But the company is preparing itself for the worst and baking batches with icing, for a bandage over the ankle and foot.

The gingerbread men, with white shirt and dark blue shorts, were ready to go on sale early until Aldo Dusher's reckless tackle on Beckham.

A Safeway spokesman said: "We were days away from launching our World Cup gingerbread man when this national tragedy occurred."

He added: "We didn't think our customers would want us to bring out a fully fit gingerbread man when our captain, the man on whose shoulders all our hopes rest, is in plaster."

If, come the Sweden game, Beckham cannot play, it will stock the bandaged gingerbread men. On the other hand, if he recovers, the original will go on sale.

And the pic....

Top Dog
18-04-2002, 04:52 PM
I think last night showed that we are not a one man team and should not all sh*t ourselves if Goldenballs isn't fit, although I expect he will be.

Lots of promising performances last night - Vassell, Fowler, Murphy, Hargreaves, Cole and Bridge all showed they have a lot to offer.

The future will certainly be very rosy for England.