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palace ray
11-04-2002, 09:13 PM
Simon Rodgers leaving in the summer apperently as he ain't being offered a new contract. Now is this good or bad as I for one still think he will die for the cause.:grrr: :grrr:

lightweight
11-04-2002, 09:17 PM
It is a shame that someone that has been so loyal isn't getting a new contract - especially when it's not as if he hasn't been playing at all.

markholmes1991
11-04-2002, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by palace ray
Now is this good or bad

Most disappointed but hardly surprised. In many ways his testimonial may ultimately be his farewell then. I know for a fact, Reading have already had contact with the club.
After ten years of service Jolly deserves to go out with a flourish I just hope his achievements and efforts won’t be forgotten.

Winston
11-04-2002, 09:20 PM
He has been a great servant but I do think that it is time for him to move on. Reading would be a good choice, what with Super Al being there and all.

Crunchie
11-04-2002, 09:26 PM
Rodger is 10 times better than Thomson. He improve the balance of our midfield immensly when he came on, on Sunday

If his injuries are not then catching up with him, then he should be offered an extension to his current contract.

He is our David Batty ( when he was good ) with a good cross/corner to boot.

:veryangry :veryangry :veryangry

Riccardo
11-04-2002, 09:32 PM
Don't get me started on Thomson.....:grrr: :sob:

I hope the crowd vs. Spurs reflects the passion that Jolly used to give to the team.

Boris the charltonhater
11-04-2002, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Riccardo
Don't get me started on Thomson.....:grrr: :sob:



Don't get me started on those idiots who fail to see what a good player Thomson is. :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :vader:

Symon10
11-04-2002, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Crunchie
Rodger is 10 times better than Thomson. He improve the balance of our midfield immensly when he came on, on Sunday

If his injuries are not then catching up with him, then he should be offered an extension to his current contract.

He is our David Batty ( when he was good ) with a good croos/corner to boot.

:veryangry :veryangry :veryangry

Rubbish. We were doing better with thomson on the pitch. Thomson was one of the few players working his but of and i was sorry to see him go off injured. Thomson split the crewe defence at least once one for our strikers not to take advantage - that is something rodger doesn't do. Rodger has a good left foot, can play it simple and has a good cross. He would also work his but off. Something Thomson also does. Rodger is however getting on a bit. He is regularily injured and i don't think you could base a team with him in it. He could be a good backup player but would he want that? Perhaps it is the right time, although i agree it is disappointing to see him go. Thomson is our longest serving player apart from Rodger but has a huge advantage. He has another 10 years to play being 24!

Riccardo
11-04-2002, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Boris


Don't get me started on those idiots who fail to see what a good player Thomson is. :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :vader:


Don't get me started on Boris :grrr: :D

Eric the Ginga
11-04-2002, 10:07 PM
Apparently Jolly is (physically) falling apart at the seams. He has been a great servant to the club, not a great player though. I think it is time we off-loaded him with grateful thanks.

pedro
11-04-2002, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Boris


Don't get me started on those idiots who fail to see what a good player Thomson is. :grrr: :grrr: :grrr: :vader:

Will all the idiots please form an orderly queue behind me please, and no pushing in !

'ere sid
11-04-2002, 10:38 PM
I have always considered Jolly a half decent player, but a player that plays when we are not doing too well, the type thats always there, in the background, and will get a game due to injuries, or we are short in that area. To move forward people like him need to be moved on I'm afraid

Gark Moldberg
11-04-2002, 11:03 PM
Should we cry? Probably not. Didn't he once turn down contract after contract and after no-one else was interested, agree a contract once the season had started?

aadams
11-04-2002, 11:08 PM
Unfortunately he has ankle problems and cannot last a whole season without getting injured (as shown this season).
Lets remember the service he's given us in the past and I hope he has a good testimonial.
:p

g23
11-04-2002, 11:13 PM
Steve Thomson is a good player, more than good enough to play in the midfield of an upwardly mobile Division One club, and only likely to improve with age. He has all of Jolly's attributes, youth, and some as yet unrealised potential to play with. None of which is to say we should release SR.

selhurst
11-04-2002, 11:21 PM
It will be a shame to see Jolly go, but it's probably about the right time, for both him and the Club.

anti-addick
11-04-2002, 11:35 PM
I'd like to say at this point

Francis Out!!!

kolinkins
11-04-2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by g23
Steve Thomson is a good player, more than good enough to play in the midfield of an upwardly mobile Division One club, and only likely to improve with age. He has all of Jolly's attributes, youth, and some as yet unrealised potential to play with. None of which is to say we should release SR.

firstly, neither of them are good enough for a team that would be looking for promotion next season. secondly, thomson does too many square going nowhere passes, and is of the jolly ilk. and finally, thomson is NOT a young player with potential. he was that around three or four years ago. he is now 24 - he needs to know his role as a back up player.

g23
12-04-2002, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by kolinkins
firstly, neither of them are good enough for a team that would be looking for promotion next season. secondly, thomson does too many square going nowhere passes, and is of the jolly ilk. and finally, thomson is NOT a young player with potential. he was that around three or four years ago. he is now 24 - he needs to know his role as a back up player.

Firstly, both of them were good enough for a team looking for promotion this season (and that could well have got it). Secondly, Didier Deschamps. Thirdly, a 24 year old with his skill level and relative lack of exposure to first team football is likely to improve considerably given three solid seasons of 40-50 games started. He may turn out to be a squad player, but there's no shame in that.

Jimbo ?
12-04-2002, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by palace ray
Simon Rodgers leaving in the summer apperently as he ain't being offered a new contract. Now is this good or bad as I for one still think he will die for the cause.:grrr: :grrr:


is this official as i would be surprised if he left in his testomonial year??

i still believe he has a lot to offer and can coach players like thomson through

Symon10
12-04-2002, 12:40 AM
jimbo and g23 have opened my mind to its not a case of thomsons better than rodger so there is no need for rodger which is what i implied. The best case of it all is to keep both of them. I personally believe thomson is good enough (and like g23 says with 40 game season under his belt next year could prove to be an excellent asset for the club) and him an aki is a very good central midfield, if we play 3-5-2, to base the team pushing for promotion next season.

What i would say is that on a football side it is not a problem if rodger leaves like i believe it would be if players like morrison/mullins/kirovski/aki were to leave. If it is the situation where Jolly would not be happy with a backup role/ a role developing to help coach the midfielders (as jimbo suggests) then he should move on. He would certainly be a first choice in div 2 sides and probably for other sides in division 1. For example he could be a good buy for a promoted Brentford.

no1palacefan
12-04-2002, 02:08 AM
All I would like to say on Rodgers leaving is that I for one will be sad to see him go, although not the most talented of players he is a real workhorse and always gives his all for our club, I do feel he still has something to offer, but as it has been said, maybe not to palace.

Walrus
12-04-2002, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by no1palacefan
All I would like to say on Rodgers leaving is that I for one will be sad to see him go, although not the most talented of players he is a real workhorse and always gives his all for our club, I do feel he still has something to offer, but as it has been said, maybe not to palace.

Hear hear to that. And as a loyal servant to Palace I hope he does well from his testimonial to which I will do my best to get tickets for. If Palace fans think that much of him, SP should be pretty full for it.

jordanismygod
12-04-2002, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by Symon10
. I personally believe thomson is good enough (and like g23 says with 40 game season under his belt next year could prove to be an excellent asset for the club) and him an aki is a very good central midfield, if we play 3-5-2, to base the team pushing for promotion next season.

If we have a midfield consisting of these two next season, then you can kiss any chance of progression goodbye!
Our midfield is woeful, partly due to the tactics of TF and the lack of any skill there!!!

I don't hold any chance of us going up next season unless we purchase two midfielders!
At least one with good experience!!!

arussell
12-04-2002, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by markholmes1991
I know for a fact, Reading have already had contact with the club.



Pardew said at a fans forum last season that he wanted to sign Jolly.

I'm happy to see Thomson leave too BTW - I CANNOT see what anyone sees in him as a player, and his casual and sloppy play has already cost us two goals this season. I am still amazed that we never let him go when he was in the reserves several seasons ago. He is an average player at best and no better than the likes of Robert Quinn (a very similar player) or Richard Kennedy who were his competition at that time and who also moved on.

I've seen many better players released by the club over the years too.

jordanismygod
12-04-2002, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by arussell


Pardew said at a fans forum last season that he wanted to sign Jolly.

I'm happy to see Thomson leave too BTW - I CANNOT see what anyone sees in him as a player, and his casual and sloppy play has already cost us two goals this season. I am still amazed that we never let him go when he was in the reserves several seasons ago. He is an average player at best and no better than the likes of Robert Quinn (a very similar player) or Richard Kennedy who were his competition at that time and who also moved on.

I've seen many better players released by the club over the years too.

Couldn't agree more Alan. This midfield will NOT take us to the premiership!

pete eagle
12-04-2002, 04:24 AM
can we get rid of Hopkin before we think of getting rid of Thomson.

As for Jolly, a marvellous player considering what we bought him for - what he has done for us is superb and he fully deserves the testimonial.

Jer
12-04-2002, 04:53 AM
It's the perennial Catch 22 with Steve Thomson, he needs the games to develop, but can we afford to give them to him? As he's been getting some games recently, and with the possibility of more belt tightening, we should find out (or find him out) early next season, though he never looks really happy enough with the ball to look like he'll be any more than a decent Div 1 player - go on Steve, prove me wrong!! If we're serious about the Premiership, we've got to be serious about a new midfield, though God only know who or what TF may have in mind there (psst - Tommy Black and Julian Gray, in the same team!! Yes, to start!!!)

Earlier in the season much of our success was based on Aki and Jolly working well together to close down, win the ball and lay it simply for a forward move - how much of our subsequent fall was due to Jolly's injuries and Aki trying/having to do this job on his own. Compare with the waywardness and limited drive and penetration from Hayden and Steve Thomson, and how often they took us backwards against Birmingham last week. As we've got the makings of a good defence, a proven pair of front players (and £10k a week of potential too), what price on a younger, fitter (scandanavian) version of Jolly for next season?

Symon10
12-04-2002, 03:37 PM
Thomson also needs a run in the team for aki. You've mentioned aki and rodgers partnership. Early on in the crewe game you could see that understanding between aki and thomson. You could here them calling each other. Thomson went up for a 5050 ball and because of a call from aki was able to head it to aki's feet. Then a few minutes later the roles were reversed.

Granted one of grimsby's goals was thomsons fault. He had an abysmal game up there from that point onwards. However he has come back from that in the past few games. Yes he has a problem in playing negative backward balls too often. That is something that needs to be worked on. However, has anyone thought why he has to play backward balls? There is no other options if we want to retain possesion. Which is one of his key roles in the central midfield. Another negative of him is the fact he isn't very tall. THe ball can often go over his head. But he does jumper well. the positives; he gets stuck in. works hard. plays the ball simple. has a good touch and is comfortable on the ball. has developed good communication with aki. he has a good long shot (like aki does) - remember leicester away. he can also split defenses. despite the regular occurance of him playing simple balls. he does also possess the ability to play accurate through balls to the forwards. there was an outstanding example against crewe. It left one defended stranded almost hitting the other and the palace forward running onto it almost clean on goal - just a shame the forward (can't remember which player it was :clown: ) couldn't take advantage.

agree with pete - get rid of hopkin!!

jordanismygod - i completely disagree with you. I think if we have that pairing we could be pushing for promotion. I do agree with you however we need another central midfielder. Other than those two we only have Rodger. So we must have the competition to keep those two working hard.

agree with jer - he needs that time to develop. unfortunetly i feel the injury has picked up has robbed him of two crucial games for him to develop. Its unfortunet. :(

palace ray
12-04-2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by pete eagle
can we get rid of Hopkin before we think of getting rid of Thomson.

I have too agree with you on that he just aint got it any more.

As for Jolly, a marvellous player considering what we bought him for - what he has done for us is superb and he fully deserves the testimonial.

palace ray
12-04-2002, 04:33 PM
I've got that a bit wrong aint I:eek: :eek:

arussell
12-04-2002, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Jer
It's the perennial Catch 22 with Steve Thomson, he needs the games to develop


I've been watching Thomson for five years now. I've not seen him develop in any way.

wedgetail
12-04-2002, 04:49 PM
As far as I can see Thomson is OK with the the ball but is woefull without it. We will never do well against teams with good movement with him, or players like him, in the team.

Symon10
12-04-2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by wedgetail
As far as I can see Thomson is OK with the the ball but is woefull without it. We will never do well against teams with good movement with him, or players like him, in the team.

why in your opinion is he woeful without the ball?

Cleon
12-04-2002, 04:53 PM
On the subject of Rodger, he has been an outstanding servant for Crystal Palace, and I wish him the best of luck. But he's on big money, and now is the time to move on.

We will all be able to show our appreciation in his testimonial game.

cpfcben
12-04-2002, 05:38 PM
i think simon should be kept on if possible, he has been a great servant to the club and he deserves his testimonial, apart from all this he is a really good player and far better than thomson, the only bad side to rodger is his injury problems and i think this might be3 the reason he will not be given a new contract.

markholmes1991
12-04-2002, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by arussell

Pardew said at a fans forum last season that he wanted to sign Jolly.


Contact was made in November with the player’s agent as to his future/availability. I know they have also spoken more recently in early March.
As to Jolly's playing days his form during the promotion campaign, and the partnership he formed with Southgate in the process will always be one of my memories from that campaign. Suffering that back injury so early in the 94/95 campaign really seemed to have a knock on effect not just on him, but team alike.

wedgetail
12-04-2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Symon10


why in your opinion is he woeful without the ball?
Because in my humble opinion he can't prevent the opposing team from moving forward with the ball. It is what is called covering play, close marking or distance marking or whatever you want, but the point is Jocko can't do it at a good div 1 level.

12-04-2002, 07:22 PM
Injuries aside Rodger is one of our most consisent players always a 7 or 8 out of ten performance and is very influencial. He puts in a good cross, gives 110% and is a good passer.

Also aren't we forgetting Pollock?

Symon10
12-04-2002, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by wedgetail

Because in my humble opinion he can't prevent the opposing team from moving forward with the ball. It is what is called covering play, close marking or distance marking or whatever you want, but the point is Jocko can't do it at a good div 1 level.

fair points. can't comment as haven't looked closely on what Jock is doing when the opposing teams coming forward. What i would comment is one player cannot cover play. Covering play and preventing the opposing team moving forward with the ball is not done by one player. It is done by a team. It is done by forwards pressing and chasing all over the place. It is done by correct positioning of the team as a whole (i haven't noticed any obviously poor positioning from jock - perhaps i should have done). Whether individually opposing teams take the ball past thomson more than any other palace player i question? As i said before i'll have to have a close look next time he plays.

So then if there is the negative off the ball where he doesn't hold up the opponents enough, there are also positives in thomsons play off the ball. The movement i have noticed is in forwards runs and when our team has the ball he supports his team mates from one end of the pitch to the other. An example, in the crewe game. He started near a left back positiong near julian gray. playing some simple passes. 30 seconds later he was suddenly latching onto a ball on the back of the crewe's right back! and that was from a move he had started in completely the opposite place on the pitch. That kind of movement is good. Maybe its a case when our team has the ball he is a good player, when we don't have the ball there is need for improvement? i don't know.

He has a lot of positives to offer the team in my opinion.

wedgetail
12-04-2002, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Symon10


. Covering play and preventing the opposing team moving forward with the ball is not done by one player. It is done by a team.

Yes, it is a team effort, but the right players have to be in the right palces for it to work. I have a nightmare of Palace playing with Black Hopkin Thomson and Gray as a midfield quartet.

The trouble is we have Thomson who can play and Aki who can destroy, It would be nice if we could afford a player with both abilities, an economy version of Ince or Keane to play beside Mullins.

NSO
12-04-2002, 10:22 PM
Jolly Rodger to join old boss Steve Coppell at Brentford at the end of the Season , if his contract is not renewed by Palace......................................pure speculation by me but sounds a very fair bet dont you think :cool:

Adrian
12-04-2002, 10:27 PM
Sounds very sensible to me.

BTW, don't tell The Sun........
:D

pete eagle
12-04-2002, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Sven


Also aren't we forgetting Pollock?

what about him?

pete eagle
12-04-2002, 10:32 PM
they're probably printing the story right now :D

Gooders
12-04-2002, 11:21 PM
I think Jolly has been a fabulous servant and me and mine will make sure that we stump up for his testimonial.

He's always been just short of top class for me though. Almost never did he give the club less than 100% effort but the plain truth is that a man playing in his position and with his left foot should have both made and scored a lot more goals during his career.

I agree with Selhurst - it's the right time for him and club to part.

Good luck Jolly, and thanks for all the effort mate.

:p

Gooders
12-04-2002, 11:22 PM
And Thomson will never make it.

Jimbo ?
13-04-2002, 02:28 AM
sorry to see him go but i fear this will be a new era!!!! alot of players in and out!!!

Officer Dibble
13-04-2002, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by arussell


I've been watching Thomson for five years now. I've not seen him develop in any way.

Spot on.
When our injured defenders return it will be central midfield that requires surgery.
Our best years were when we had combative forceful players like Andy Gray and Geoff Thomas. Strong in the tackle, forceful runners, excellent supportive play and weighed in with a decent goals tally.
Wedgetail is correct, Thomson is anonymous off the ball and he's adequate on it. But that simply isn't good enough for a team with promotion ambitions.
If we make only one incoming signing this summer, it HAS to be a quality midfielder with good penetrative passing skills and a combatitive presence.
Thomson is neither. Keep him as a reserve to fill in for 10 games a season or let him go.

Boris the charltonhater
13-04-2002, 12:51 PM
Firstly I would like to congratulate everyone on spelling Steve Thomson's name right for a change. Usually everyone puts a p in after the m

Originally posted by Symon10
Thomson also needs a run in the team for aki. You've mentioned aki and rodgers partnership. Early on in the crewe game you could see that understanding between Aki and Thomson. You could here them calling each other. Thomson went up for a 5050 ball and because of a call from aki was able to head it to aki's feet. Then a few minutes later the roles were reversed.

I agree with this. Early in the season we played Stockport at home with Thomson and Aki in midfield and the two played a lot better together than Aki did with Rodger in the next twenty odd games. In recent games, Norwich, Birmingham this partnership has been resumed and Aki has been playing better. Rodger may be a good player but he doesn't play well alongside any of the current players in our squad. It's the abysmal crossing of our wingers which is the problem, not the centre midfield combination.

Those who say Thomson isn't premiership quality, Liverpool at home, Leciester and Sunderland away lastseason in cup competitions anyone?

SIKO
13-04-2002, 04:09 PM
Jolly will be joined by others, Hopkin, Berhalter, Kirovski and Black

Symon10
14-04-2002, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by Boris

Those who say Thomson isn't premiership quality, Liverpool at home, Leciester and Sunderland away lastseason in cup competitions anyone?

well said boris :p

arussell
15-04-2002, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by Boris
Those who say Thomson isn't premiership quality, Liverpool at home, Leciester and Sunderland away lastseason in cup competitions anyone?


Thomson scored a fantastic goal against Leicester, I agree.

I remember Darren Pitcher's wonder goal against Wolves too .......

If you're trying to make any other point - I fail to see what it is :confused:

glaziers fan
15-04-2002, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Symon10
Thomson also needs a run in the team for aki. You've mentioned aki and rodgers partnership. Early on in the crewe game you could see that understanding between aki and thomson. You could here them calling each other. Thomson went up for a 5050 ball and because of a call from aki was able to head it to aki's feet. Then a few minutes later the roles were reversed.

Granted one of grimsby's goals was thomsons fault. He had an abysmal game up there from that point onwards. However he has come back from that in the past few games. Yes he has a problem in playing negative backward balls too often. That is something that needs to be worked on. However, has anyone thought why he has to play backward balls? There is no other options if we want to retain possesion. Which is one of his key roles in the central midfield. Another negative of him is the fact he isn't very tall. THe ball can often go over his head. But he does jumper well. the positives; he gets stuck in. works hard. plays the ball simple. has a good touch and is comfortable on the ball. has developed good communication with aki. he has a good long shot (like aki does) - remember leicester away. he can also split defenses. despite the regular occurance of him playing simple balls. he does also possess the ability to play accurate through balls to the forwards. there was an outstanding example against crewe. It left one defended stranded almost hitting the other and the palace forward running onto it almost clean on goal - just a shame the forward (can't remember which player it was :clown: ) couldn't take advantage.

agree with pete - get rid of hopkin!!

jordanismygod - i completely disagree with you. I think if we have that pairing we could be pushing for promotion. I do agree with you however we need another central midfielder. Other than those two we only have Rodger. So we must have the competition to keep those two working hard.

agree with jer - he needs that time to develop. unfortunetly i feel the injury has picked up has robbed him of two crucial games for him to develop. Its unfortunet. :(

glaziers fan
15-04-2002, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan


I agree with u, on some things, especially about Thompson being the type of player we need. We desperately need some1 in the middle of the park in his mould. I think Thompson is a super player cos he has confidence in his ability, is a winner (just look at some of his performances in the cup games with AS against Premiership sides) and can pass a ball! He can spray the ball around, and play simple ball well if he gets a run of games, we'll see if he is truly good enough. We definitely need to play 3-5-2 and play some1 like him next to Aki to help us retain more posession. Actually Kirovski could do it if he was willing tio stay and drop deeper. We need some1 who can pass in that area. And we need Aki to start showing early season form! His passing can be improved! He just needs to work harder in training!

Eagle Kneevil
15-04-2002, 08:29 PM
I leave myself open for ridicule here........but what I see in Thomson is pretty much what I saw in Zohar. Neat passing, not a lot else, least of all creativity.

Cleon
18-04-2002, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by SIKO
Jolly will be joined by others, Hopkin, Berhalter, Kirovski and Black

If only. I suspect we are lumbered with the lumbering Hopkin - who the hell else is going to agree to pay his wages, especially in this Brave New World of post-ITV Digitial money?

And with the number of players that are going to be out of contract this summer, can you see anyone moving for Berhalter either?

Kirovski and Black are out of contract - I'd be happy to see Kirovski disappear, but would be a little disappointed to see Black leave. I still feel he will develop into a good player, and I doubt he's on particuarly high wages.