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View Full Version : Ecstasy reduces football hooliganism?!


SKATE
01-05-2002, 02:18 PM
Any see the very interesting prog last night about football hooliganism? One of the most intriguing points made in it was that the increased use of ecstasy in the 90's played a large role in reducing football hooliganism. Apparently the firms were too loved up to want to fight each other. Unfortunately the effect is apparently starting to wear off.

LLCOOLSTEVE
01-05-2002, 02:19 PM
Peace and lurve


:love: :love: :love:

Psychokiller
01-05-2002, 02:39 PM
I've seen ecstacy change the most aggressive, moody people into loved up smiley people who just want to hug and dance. The media only reports the bad things about E like the deaths (though more people die as a percentage of allergic reactions to things like nuts or mangos) which normally occur when the drug is used irresponsibly. I am a firm advocate of the legalisation of Ecstacy, though I rarely use it myself these days - put it this way, I'd rather walk into a crowd of people high on ecstacy than into a crowd of boozed up thugs looking for a fight.

Neal k
01-05-2002, 02:55 PM
At Euro 2000, there was trouble in Belgium but not in holland, thought partly to do with the laws on cannabis. Another good reason to leagilise it:cool:

Chocky
01-05-2002, 02:57 PM
Hang on, just coming up now.......

WE HATE BRIGHTON
AND WE HATE BRIGHTON
WE HATE BRIGHTON
AND WE HATE BRIGHTON
WE HATE BRIGHTON
AND WE HATE BRIGHTON
WE ARE THE BRIGHTON
HATERS

Nah. Don't work.

congress
01-05-2002, 03:06 PM
Ii watched the programme for about ten minutes and then saw a Swedish fan who was already unconcious being kicked in the head and body by about 8 English fans.I thought that was enough for me and turned it off.

I would be embarresed to go abroad and support England after seeing that.

Georgie Boy
01-05-2002, 03:16 PM
If it stops people getting done over, **** it, dish 'em out at the airport, everyone would look like this little fella:eek: going through customs.

ClaphamParkPalace
01-05-2002, 03:26 PM
But then everybody starts doing cocaine along with their 10 pints of lager as the MDMA content has gone down in UK pills....

The Omen
01-05-2002, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by Neal k
At Euro 2000, there was trouble in Belgium but not in holland, thought partly to do with the laws on cannabis. Another good reason to leagilise it:cool:

I was at all three games and yes there was a lot more trouble in Belgium than Holland - imo it had nothing to do with drugs though.

Think about it, the first game was harder to get to for a start, and it was against opposition who we have nothing against.

The second game was against Germany, it was on a weekend and the venue was easy to get to. There would have been trouble at that game no matter what.

The third game against Romania would have been ok if we had got through. Sadly we did the usual and threw it away in the last few minutes - which sadly meant a handful of England fans went on the rampage.

Also Chaleroi had a very large Turkish community (the largest in Belgium). A lot of the trouble out there was with the Turks - they were very threatning to anyone in an England top.

Georgie Boy
01-05-2002, 03:29 PM
MDMA, where did it go?:sob:

Daniel_Nash
01-05-2002, 03:32 PM
I saw it aswell, and the one last week too. Some pretty sick sights, that Chelsea fan seemed to be upset that the violence has gone away because of the rave culture. Just glad he's in Thailand now and not gracing football grounds with his presence.

When that Swede was being kicked about like a toy, one guy was saying "No! Stop!" and had his hands out, bit late but at least he had some decency. Those Swedish Nazi's looked a bit frightening too, seen a whole stand of them at an AIK game before :eek:

Seemed to me that the going to football for a fight thing was fair enough, because they only used to attack those looking for a fight aswell. No civilians. But then the rules got ignored and politics took over, the IRA chanting, the secterian (sp) chants and fights... and it all got out of control.

I think that in many areas of the country now they have sorted the hooligan problem, of course there are a few outbreaks, but the year i had my Spurs season ticket i only saw one fight and that was because the police made the Spurs fans and the Leeds fans (just before George Graham was to take over at Spurs) queue up in the same area for the trains. A bad move on their part.

Skin Up
01-05-2002, 03:35 PM
Wasn't exactly a suprise to see the Scouser blaming everyone but the Liverpool fans for Heysal.

Daniel_Nash
01-05-2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Skin Up
Wasn't exactly a suprise to see the Scouser blaming everyone but the Liverpool fans for Heysal.

He did say that it was a bit of both, it carried on from the game against Roma. That stadium was going to crumble with a bit of pressure, did you see it?? it had wooden terraces and looked like your local park... a bit like the Withdean in someways!

digger69
01-05-2002, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by congress
Ii watched the programme for about ten minutes and then saw a Swedish fan who was already unconcious being kicked in the head and body by about 8 English fans.I thought that was enough for me and turned it off.

I would be embarresed to go abroad and support England after seeing that.

But if you watch the hole program you would have seen England fans getting the sh!t kick out of the by swedes not right to keep kicking a man when hes down but its the press that only let you see English fans fighting. England fans aren't always the bad guys...

Daniel_Nash
01-05-2002, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by digger69


But if you watch the hole program you would have seen England fans getting the sh!t kick out of the by swedes not right to keep kicking a man when hes down but its the press that only let you see English fans fighting. England fans aren't always the bad guys...

Yep, it was the Roma fans who charged at the Liverpool ones. The Scouser man with the lovely tache did say the Juve fans were itching for a fight, not sure if this is actually true.. beyond my time i think.

digger69
01-05-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash


Yep, it was the Roma fans who charged at the Liverpool ones. The Scouser man with the lovely tache did say the Juve fans were itching for a fight, not sure if this is actually true.. beyond my time i think.


You honestly think that its only the English that cause fits???
What about HOLLAND
GERMANY
TURKEY (ask leeds if those blokes were asking for it)

eagle mart
01-05-2002, 04:04 PM
I watched that, itís probably the best (only) well balanced documentary on Football Hooliganism. I was in Eindhoven and all the same likely lads were there that were probably also in Charleoi, Belgium. The beer was just as flowing freely as it would have done years ago and the Media were hanging around waiting for it all to kick-off like a bad smell. So why didnít it all go off? The policing and the fact that the locals were so welcoming are the main reasons. I didnít see any English in the coffee shops as beer and spliffs donít really mixÖÖ. So someone told me. All that rubbish about understrength beer made me laugh as well because when we arrived we tried to take into account we were drinking Heineken when in fact we were drinking full strength event beer which was between 5-6%. I couldnít have got drunk quicker if I had been drinking Jaegermeister (oh that came later.) England lost and there still wasnít any trouble, the Dutch knew how to handle an event while the corrupt Belgians couldnít organise the proverbial piss up in a Brewery.
As for Heysel, itís just too easy to blame the Liverpool fans (similar to Hillsborough.) Ask any Liverpool fan there and they will tell you there were more factors than just Liverpool fans (similar to Hillsborough.) but people are more willing to lay the blame and talk about Liverpool Supporters for killing 38 Italians and getting (over reaction) Clubs banned form Europe than they are for 96 of their own fellow fans.
As for the Sweden supporter on the floor, the person that originally beat him up came back and saw what was happening is now a Stone Island/Burberry wearing Clergymen (for those who didnít see it) in a young offenders institute. Even he said the Swede started it though. Following England is a fantastic experience, I would highly recommend it, apart from the victimisation you get abroad which stems from the Media hype. Donít get me started on the MediaÖÖ..

Daniel_Nash
01-05-2002, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by digger69



You honestly think that its only the English that cause fits???
What about HOLLAND
GERMANY
TURKEY (ask leeds if those blokes were asking for it)

Did i say that?? NO. I didn't.

Infact i know it happens a lot in Holland, every other week there is some incident!

"Yep, it was the Roma fans who charged at the Liverpool ones" i did say this, doesn't sound like it was started by the English there does it?! Also, i was born 1983, so Heysel was a bit before my time... so i don't really remember what happened! All i have to go on is what people say, including the scouser yesterday!

congress
01-05-2002, 04:52 PM
Eaglemart[
QUOTE] Following England is a fantastic experience, I would highly recommend it, apart from the victimisation you get abroad which stems from the Media hype.[/QUOTE]

I will give it a miss I think.I really do feel sorry for the Japanese and Koreans though as they have never had any type of trouble of this sort.
Japan is a country built on courtesy and England fans will just go over there and disgrace themselves like everywhere else they go.

Daniel_Nash
01-05-2002, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by congress


I will give it a miss I think.I really do feel sorry for the Japanese and Koreans though as they have never had any type of trouble of this sort.
Japan is a country built on courtesy and England fans will just go over there and disgrace themselves like everywhere else they go.

The Japanese and Korean police might have problems with a lot of people, it is not the done thing to be shouting and singing in the street and the police forces may recognise that as being the first sign of trouble. Their culture is based on courtesy and not drawing attention to yourself, so singing football fans trying to do exactly the opposite may not sit well!

The Omen
01-05-2002, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash


The Japanese and Korean police might have problems with a lot of people, it is not the done thing to be shouting and singing in the street and the police forces may recognise that as being the first sign of trouble. Their culture is based on courtesy and not drawing attention to yourself, so singing football fans trying to do exactly the opposite may not sit well!

Well I'm going - so I'll let you know! :p

Did you know one Japanese town has banned the use of bicycles over the World Cup period incase the English use them as weapons!!! LMFAO! :D

Riccardo
01-05-2002, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by eagle mart
Donít get me started on the MediaÖÖ..

I forgot. The media kicks the crap out of someone for supporting another team/country don't they. :rolleyes:


As Chris Rock said about some of his old friends from his neighbourhood :
"All I used to hear from them was 'the media victimise us, they're unfair to us'....when I'm at a cashpoint late at night, I'm not looking over my shoulder for the media...I'm looking out for the big ass n@gger trying to steal my wallet !!"

eagle mart
01-05-2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by The Omen




Did you know one Japanese town has banned the use of bicycles over the World Cup period incase the English use them as weapons!!! LMFAO! :D

See what I mean, hysteria.:D

eagle mart
01-05-2002, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Riccardo


I forgot. The media kicks the crap out of someone for supporting another team/country don't they. :rolleyes:



I should treat that ill-thought out comment with the contempt it deserves and ignore it, but I won't. A member of this board has winessed locals being paid by the British Media to start trouble in Marseille. I wintessed camera crews in Eindhoven throwing Portuguese fans in front of singing pissed up England fans to get a reaction. If you think they are there for any other reason than to get some 'action' on film and sell a few extra copies you are living in a land of the fairies and are quite frankly not fit enough to comment on any subject on this thread.
It's people like you who lap up the media coverage that keep them going. For a democracy we are struggling if the the current Government was elected by the 'Media' and in return are used by the Government to peddle their policies. I'm just waiting for The Sun to go Pro-Euro and that'll be it for me!!

The Omen
01-05-2002, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Riccardo

I forgot. The media kicks the crap out of someone for supporting another team/country don't they. :rolleyes:


They do make a mountain out of a mole hill a lot of the time though.

When we were camping in Chaleroi for Euro 2000, Trevor McDonald came down with his camera crew because he heard there was going to be a big fight with a group of Turks.

The Turks didn't show, so he left - he wasn't prepared to film the happy friendly atmosphere that was actually being displayed at the camp site. We had a Belgium news van come down later and interview us - explaining to us that they were portraying the English people as nice people and trying to change the way the English media was presenting us out there as they thought it was unfair. They understood that the Turkish locals were the ones causing the majority of the trouble.

Polish Prancer
01-05-2002, 05:59 PM
I will give it a miss I think.I really do feel sorry for the Japanese and Koreans though as they have never had any type of trouble of this sort.
Japan is a country built on courtesy and England fans will just go over there and disgrace themselves like everywhere else they go. [/B][/QUOTE]

Just read a book about the rape of Nanking when the Japanese Troops were disgraceful in the extreme to the civilians of the Chinese city of Nanking.They have paid in the region of 1per cent of repatriations to victims that Germany has,they are still trying to deny the massacre happened and only last week their President visited the Tokyo Soldiers Tomb where 16 indicted War Crimminals are internned.This caused outrage in Asia i don't know if it was covered at home.
Probably not the best book to read before I go to Japan but it's opened my eyes a bit about the Japanese.

The EEEAAAGGGLLLEEE!!!
01-05-2002, 06:17 PM
I have first hand experience of the press encouraging trouble amongst England fans just to get a cheap thrill story or photo.

At the 1986 world cup in Mexico, I went for the first three England games in Monterey. The locals were the friendliest people you could imagine. Some local girls that we met there said that on the weeks leading up to the world cup, the local newspaper had encouraged them to be friendly to the England fans, and that England fans would then be well behaved. This seemed to work, as there was virtually no trouble during the two weeks that I was there.

But, on one evening we were drinking in a bar with a couple of West Ham fans. A reporter from the News of the World came up to us and offered us US $100 each to pick a fight with a group of Mexicans who were drinking in the same bar.

We all told the reporter to **** off. This incident still pisses me off when I think about it, and it was 16 years ago. If anyone deserved a good kicking, it should have been the ****** from the News of the World.

Riccardo
01-05-2002, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by eagle mart


I should treat that ill-thought out comment with the contempt it deserves and ignore it, but I won't. A member of this board has winessed locals being paid by the British Media to start trouble in Marseille. I wintessed camera crews in Eindhoven throwing Portuguese fans in front of singing pissed up England fans to get a reaction. If you think they are there for any other reason than to get some 'action' on film and sell a few extra copies you are living in a land of the fairies and are quite frankly not fit enough to comment on any subject on this thread.
It's people like you who lap up the media coverage that keep them going (didn't like this bit eagle mart, you know NOTHING about me - Riccardo) . For a democracy we are struggling if the the current Government was elected by the 'Media' and in return are used by the Government to peddle their policies. I'm just waiting for The Sun to go Pro-Euro and that'll be it for me!!

So you think you know all about me then sunshine ?? I think you reckon you do after some of your comments.

I've had enough of people like YOU !!! 'They're picking on us', 'It's not fair'. Look mate, if you go over to where ever to cause a bit of bother I don't rate you much, and if you're smypathatic to those who do and get victimised, I feel quite sorry for you.

I can see your point to an extent about the media being in certain places....but at the end of the day, if these morons wheren't about the media wouldn't have to be there !!!

congress
01-05-2002, 06:20 PM
Polish, I understand your point but that was 50 years ago now.A lot of people were treated badly by the Jpaanese during the war but this is 2002.
We are supposed to be a civilised society yet people from our country go abroad to start trouble.Last nights programme highlighted the sort of people who do this.There was even a Scotish fan who followed England because the Scottish fans go abroad and have a good time and are well respected yet he just likes a fight so he follows England.

Chocky
01-05-2002, 07:17 PM
I remember the Heysel night vividly. I still can't believe they took the decision to play the game on the night. How could they have done that? Two teams going through the motions, kicking a ball about for a silver cup while 39 people are lying there in body bags.

Men At Work
02-05-2002, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by SKATE
One of the most intriguing points made in it was that the increased use of ecstasy in the 90's played a large role in reducing football hooliganism.

Even the police have admitted this. The problem these days is that cocaine and really filthy stuff such as ketamine are becoming the drugs of choice - as well as a return of lager. Thus people are not as touchy-feely-happy as they used to be. As for the MDMA level of pills dropping perhaps people have merely built up a tolerance to the drug.

Kevin T
02-05-2002, 01:58 AM
I've said a few times on here that I believe widespread ecstacy use in the early nineties did a lot to calm hooliganism down, and the current extreme widespread use of cocaine is a primary reason we have all seen it on the rise again the past couple of years or so.

I find if I just mix the two on a matchday, I stay nicely balenced.
:cool:

Neil the Eagle
02-05-2002, 04:18 AM
Originally posted by eagle mart
I watched that, itís probably the best (only) well balanced documentary on Football Hooliganism. I was in Eindhoven and all the same likely lads were there that were probably also in Charleoi, Belgium. The beer was just as flowing freely as it would have done years ago and the Media were hanging around waiting for it all to kick-off like a bad smell. So why didnít it all go off? The policing and the fact that the locals were so welcoming are the main reasons. I didnít see any English in the coffee shops as beer and spliffs donít really mixÖÖ. So someone told me. All that rubbish about understrength beer made me laugh as well because when we arrived we tried to take into account we were drinking Heineken when in fact we were drinking full strength event beer which was between 5-6%. I couldnít have got drunk quicker if I had been drinking Jaegermeister (oh that came later.) England lost and there still wasnít any trouble, the Dutch knew how to handle an event while the corrupt Belgians couldnít organise the proverbial piss up in a Brewery.


Couldn't have put it better myself...

Omen, you really need to check some of your facts mate. I look forward to reading your thoughts on Japan, but I do hope you don't fall for some of the silly stories there too.

Neil the Eagle
02-05-2002, 04:29 AM
Originally posted by congress


I will give it a miss I think.I really do feel sorry for the Japanese and Koreans though as they have never had any type of trouble of this sort.
Japan is a country built on courtesy and England fans will just go over there and disgrace themselves like everywhere else they go.

This is so sad.

I admit to holding similar views to this, but I still wanted to see it for myself before passing judgement.

When I did, I completely altered my views. The decent, respectful, law-abiding people going to support England away are in the vast majority.

I've been going to England away for over five years and not once seen any trouble. Indeed the only time I've seen any serious trouble at an England game was at Wembley in 1983... the instigators that day were some of the "wonderful" Tartan Army.

johanncryuff
02-05-2002, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by Men At Work


Even the police have admitted this. The problem these days is that cocaine and really filthy stuff such as ketamine are becoming the drugs of choice - as well as a return of lager. Thus people are not as touchy-feely-happy as they used to be. As for the MDMA level of pills dropping perhaps people have merely built up a tolerance to the drug.

Esctasy came along, and made the really tops boys very rich, selling at at the rave they had organise and took all the dough for. They didn't get happy, they got married and got families

The Omen
02-05-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Neil the Eagle

Omen, you really need to check some of your facts mate. I look forward to reading your thoughts on Japan, but I do hope you don't fall for some of the silly stories there too.

Which ones Neil? :confused:

selhurstparkflyer
02-05-2002, 04:05 PM
Whilst I can understand that most England fans technically keep to the letter of the law, I would still rather not be associated with them.

As with many long distance travelling English footy fans- the Man U fans on the telly on Tuedsay are a case in point, their appearance and behaviour is not really ideal.
Big fat men, covered in tattoos and with farmers' tans singing the National Anthem and 'No Surrender' etc etc with clenched fists after 15 pints is not really cup of tea and not really something I can be very proud of.

I accept that many are not like this. However, it is these type of folk that lead the singing. It is this type of person that has sway in the prime drinking areas and it is really quite embarassing.

Neil the Eagle
02-05-2002, 04:15 PM
These ones...

Think about it, the first game was harder to get to for a start, and it was against opposition who we have nothing against.

The second game was against Germany, it was on a weekend and the venue was easy to get to. There would have been trouble at that game no matter what.

The third game against Romania would have been ok if we had got through. Sadly we did the usual and threw it away in the last few minutes - which sadly meant a handful of England fans went on the rampage.

Also Chaleroi had a very large Turkish community (the largest in Belgium).(the largest in Belgium).

1. Half hour difference in travel time from Brussels by train. Equi-distant in terms of travel time by road. Airport links pretty much the same.

2. The trouble at the station centred around the fact that English fans were banned (an outrage against European human rights and a clearer case of discrimination you will not see) from travelling back to Brusells by train.The only arrests made after the game were in direct connection with this,and not the result.

3. Largest Turkish community is based in Brussels not Charleroi. The Turks are not even the largest non-Belgian community in Charleroi.

Neil the Eagle
02-05-2002, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by selhurstparkflyer
However, it is these type of folk that lead the singing. It is this type of person that has sway in the prime drinking areas and it is really quite embarassing.

But isn't that the case at most British football (and increasingly cricket) matches though?

Be embarrassed by all means, but don't turn a blind eye to the fact that this behaviour isn't confined to England away fans or even football itself. It goes with territory. My point remains these people are not in the majority.

The Omen
02-05-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Neil the Eagle

2. The trouble at the station centred around the fact that English fans were banned (an outrage against European human rights and a clearer case of discrimination you will not see) from travelling back to Brusells by train.The only arrests made after the game were in direct connection with this,and not the result.


Fair enough - I was only basing my views on what I heard. I'm sure you are right, but I heard from quite a few people (including Chaleroi locals), that they had the biggest Turkish community in Belgium. The Belgiums hated the Turks out there - I lost count the number of times the locals wanted the English fans to beat the hell out of the local Turks.

The trouble after the Romania game though - I didn't realise there was any trouble at the station. The only trouble I witnessed was in the main town where shop windows were being smashed and generally a lot of English fans were running wild - but it was nothing in comparison to the scenes after the Germany game.

Neil the Eagle
02-05-2002, 05:12 PM
The guys we spoke to in and around Charleroi were also very pro-English, but that was more because they hated the Germans!

We walked down the main street after the Romaina game and stopped to get a burger, we saw/heard absolutely nothing after the game and only heard about the trouble at the station from English speaking Policemen and journo's when we tried and were refused permission to board the late train round midnight.

We headed back into town in search of lifts back to Brussells and saw no evidence of any property damage at all. This rather suggests that the window smashing was extremely localised. The papers confirmed that the only arrests made were in connection with the train problems.

Other than a few Police horses charging up and down we saw nothing after the Germany game either, but we did take a shortcut around the main street that night to get to the station quicker.

selhurstparkflyer
02-05-2002, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by Neil the Eagle


But isn't that the case at most British football (and increasingly cricket) matches though?

Be embarrassed by all means, but don't turn a blind eye to the fact that this behaviour isn't confined to England away fans or even football itself. It goes with territory. My point remains these people are not in the majority.

There you have captured exactly the reason why so many people say football is a game they would rather keep their families away from.

Neil the Eagle
03-05-2002, 01:34 PM
Don't disagree mate.

These are people that will make up their mind on something without the benefit of first hand experience... not my style, but each to their own.

It is also why, in my view, family areas/stands at football should have a much higher profile and focus, instead of being a late 80's fad.