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Random*
09-05-2002, 01:48 PM
Just to get in there first...

It's 15 minutes until the press conference where Sven will name the 23 man England team... rumours are still abound that Jansen will feature in the squad, and it will almost certainly be a squad as much for the future as it is for this World Cup.

I'm listening to it live... so hopefully I'll be able to put the squad up as it's announced...

sydney eagle
09-05-2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Random*
Just to get in there first...


I'm listening to it live... so hopefully I'll be able to put the squad up as it's announced... please do mate:p

Random*
09-05-2002, 02:10 PM
Well the squad was meant to be announced at 10... but the press conference has been delayed slightly, so it's not going to be 'some time in the next half hour'.

Bah.

Baloo
09-05-2002, 02:12 PM
"Not" some time in the next half hour? :rolleyes:

The FA's website appears to be struggling under the pressure. Looks like I'm going to be relying on those near a radio to post on here before I get it from there.

Thanks in advance...:)

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 02:17 PM
Cant get on fa website - obvioulsy too many hits on it. 5 live saying next half hour. Platt naming his squad beforehand. Interesting to see if Zamora gets in.

Random*
09-05-2002, 02:17 PM
Sorry, mis-type - I should have said that the squad will be announced some time in the next half hour...

Random*
09-05-2002, 02:20 PM
And for those that are too lazy to find it... the link for the 5 live audio, which should have a live feed from the press conference...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/console.shtml

Baloo
09-05-2002, 02:22 PM
Not too lazy, mate, at work without a speaker on the PC. Regular updates therefore appreciated. :p

Random*
09-05-2002, 02:22 PM
It seems that the reason it's all been delayed is because their website is dead - something to do with them having to inform the clubs about their players, so they're having to fax them instead.

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 02:25 PM
You'd think the players would find out before the public, not the same time on the website as the public. Some may wish to decline the invitation (ie Nicky Butt).

Baloo
09-05-2002, 02:27 PM
I too would have thought the players would be told before the public - at least those who were on the fringes but didn't make it in - Sven should take it on himself to tell them personally - it won't be pleasant finding out by fax!

Or did he hear about Gazza's reaction to his exclusion last time...?

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 02:30 PM
They should send nice Nicky Chapman around their houses like in Popstars.

Baloo
09-05-2002, 02:36 PM
Looks like you were right the first time, Random* - NOT some time in the next half hour. :grrr:

Altogether now: "You don't know what you're doing! You don't know what you're doing!"

Baloo
09-05-2002, 02:47 PM
They've now changed the FA site to say:

Welcome to TheFA.com, where you'll see the first and exclusive news of the England World Cup squad.

Right now, Sven is finalising his choices for the party of 23 to travel to Korea and Japan.

TheFA.com will bring it to you first , right here, after 10am.

He's finalising his choices NOW??? Talk about last minute! How long has he had to pick the 23?

And nice and precise "after 10am".

Come on FA, I've got work to do!!
:grrr:

Random*
09-05-2002, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Baloo
They've now changed the FA site to say:

He's finalising his choices NOW??? Talk about last minute! How long has he had to pick the 23?

And nice and precise "after 10am".

Come on FA, I've got work to do!!
:grrr:


You gotta laugh at the idea of Sven sitting at a computer going... "J...A...N...S...E... Oh no no no... not him..."

(Windows crashes)

"... ****ING HELL"

Random*
09-05-2002, 02:57 PM
Well, the team will definitely be announced first at www.thefa.com - there isn't going to be a bloomin press conference until later today.

Baloo
09-05-2002, 02:58 PM
Are the chaps at Radio 5 getting as frustrated at the delay as I am? It really is a bit of a shambles.

Baloo
09-05-2002, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Random*
Well, the team will definitely be announced first at www.thefa.com - there isn't going to be a bloomin press conference until later today.

Oh for f***'s sake. Shame the website will crash when it's announced. Any idea when that'll be?

sydney eagle
09-05-2002, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Baloo
Are the chaps at Radio 5 getting as frustrated at the delay as I am? It really is a bit of a shambles. it's all quite boring at the moment.

Chantelle
09-05-2002, 03:04 PM
for gods sake!!! ive got to revise for my exams but i cant untill the squad is announced - gotta sit in front of this f-ing computer till i know whos going!
:veryangry

Random*
09-05-2002, 03:07 PM
Is there any way to set Internet Explorer to refresh itself every 30 seconds?

Daddy Long
09-05-2002, 03:07 PM
Welcome to TheFA.com, where you'll see the first and exclusive news of the England World Cup squad.

Right now, Sven is finalising his choices for the party of 23 to travel to Korea and Japan.

TheFA.com will bring it to you first , right here, after 10am.


Due to the high volumes of traffic expected on TheFA.com for this exclusive announcement, we are providing a quick loading page to announce the squad. Check back later for full analysis on TheFA.com.

© 2002 The Football Association, All rights reserved.

El Aguila
09-05-2002, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Chantelle
for gods sake!!! ive got to revise for my exams but i cant untill the squad is announced - gotta sit in front of this f-ing computer till i know whos going!
:veryangry
Ha ha! Takes me back - I did my A-Levels during th '82 World Cup. At least you know who to blame.

sydney eagle
09-05-2002, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by El Aguila

Ha ha! Takes me back - I did my A-Levels during th '82 World Cup. At least you know who to blame. I did mine during the 94 world cup....wasn't as bad obviously since England wasn't there:sob: I still managed to watch every single game though:p

Reps AJ
09-05-2002, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Random*



You gotta laugh at the idea of Sven sitting at a computer going... "J...A...N...S...E... Oh no no no... not him..."

(Windows crashes)

"... ****ING HELL"

:D

I did have the squad but my dog ate it...

Chantelle
09-05-2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by sydney eagle
I did mine during the 94 world cup....wasn't as bad obviously since England wasn't there:sob: I still managed to watch every single game though:p

GCSE's - france 98
A'levels - euro 2000
and now this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sydney eagle
09-05-2002, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Chantelle


GCSE's - france 98
A'levels - euro 2000
and now this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow:eek:,I feel sorry for you,I'd be pulling my hair out by now

El Aguila
09-05-2002, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by sydney eagle
I did mine during the 94 world cup....wasn't as bad obviously since England wasn't there:sob: I still managed to watch every single game though:p
It's good of England to fail completely every now and then isn't it? They can't have gone to thje 1980 European Championships either 'cos I don't remember it affecting my O-Levels (had to blame LSD and Rock'n'Roll for those).

CPFC_R_GREAT
09-05-2002, 03:26 PM
God dammit work already!!!

AJ1969
09-05-2002, 03:27 PM
86 world cup really hampered my A level prep - still breezed them though :D
90 world cup got in way of 2nd year exams at uni too

damn education

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 03:31 PM
Having to sit through ben Elton licking Brian May's arse to wit for this announce,ent

Reps AJ
09-05-2002, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!
Having to sit through ben Elton licking Brian May's arse to wit for this announce,ent

whatever floats your boat!! :eek: :eek:

Random*
09-05-2002, 03:33 PM
At the moment, the website seems to be suffering under the weight of thousands of people reloading the page every 10 seconds...

Arrgh. Hurry up!

Del Gland
09-05-2002, 03:34 PM
STOP PRESS

Sven has resigned and is planning to spend June in Ulrika's bed. Apparently he reckons that it is a bigger club!:) :)

CPFC_R_GREAT
09-05-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Del Gland
STOP PRESS

Sven has resigned and is planning to spend June in Ulrika's bed. Apparently he reckons that it is a bigger club!:) :)

More experience anyway! ;)

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Reps AJ


whatever floats your boat!! :eek: :eek:

Those listening to 5 live will; know what I mean. Anyone else will think I'm sick.

sydney eagle
09-05-2002, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!


Those listening to 5 live will; know what I mean. Anyone else will think I'm sick. i turned it off for that very reason

Del Gland
09-05-2002, 03:42 PM
He will only spill the beans Sven he is ready:)

God ..I'm bored!

GOD
09-05-2002, 03:47 PM
God I'm bored too..

are they making him write it all out neatly and checking his spelling :confused:

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
09-05-2002, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!
Having to sit through ben Elton licking Brian May's arse to wit for this announce,ent Did he make the yummy sound?

kit82
09-05-2002, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by Chantelle


GCSE's - france 98
A'levels - euro 2000
and now this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly the same as me! Luckily this year my uni exams finish a couple of days before the first England game. Never missed an england game tho!!!

JOE COLE IS IN!!!

kit82
09-05-2002, 03:48 PM
News coming in.....

Keown is in
Wes Brown is in!!!

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 03:48 PM
Jansen out
P Neville out
Keown In!

kit82
09-05-2002, 03:51 PM
Full Squad:

Seaman, Martyn, James

Rio Ferdinand, Campbell, A Cole, Southgate, Bridge, Mills, Brown, Keown

Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Dyer, Butt, Hargreaves, J Cole

Owen, Heskey, Fowler, Vassell, Sheringham

Murphy on standby

kit82
09-05-2002, 03:52 PM
The surprises there for me are:

Hargreaves in
Murphy out
Carragher out
Jansen out

im not surprised about joe cole, i feel he deserves it!!

GOD
09-05-2002, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!
Jansen out
P Neville out
Keown In!

:(
:D :D
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Del Gland
09-05-2002, 03:54 PM
I feel sorry for Jansen.. a few more months should have done it for him.

As for Ashley Cole, I have been a bit perturbed by his performances in the recent "high profile" games that Arsenal have been in and have a horrid feeling that he is going to have a nightmare time

Random*
09-05-2002, 03:56 PM
Hmm... not entirely impressed.

Levski
09-05-2002, 03:56 PM
I think Brown and Mills can count themselves as very lucky.

It wasn't me!
09-05-2002, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Del Gland
I feel sorry for Jansen.. a few more months should have done it for him.

As for Ashley Cole, I have been a bit perturbed by his performances in the recent "high profile" games that Arsenal have been in and have a horrid feeling that he is going to have a nightmare time

What are you talking about, he's done really well since coming back from his injury

Del Gland
09-05-2002, 03:57 PM
Oh my God..I've just spotted Keown!!

He is an absolute scumbag, a cheat, and above all bl@@dy lucky to be playing in a class team where he is not exposed!!

AJ1969
09-05-2002, 04:00 PM
What kind of a fool wouldn't take mcmanaman - what an idiot!!!!

PeterH
09-05-2002, 04:00 PM
Mills a possible liability, but no Nevilles and no Le Saux got to be good news. Murphy as standby is a bit of a surprise. We seem to have someone of Irish descent playing for England thats a role reversal.

Unlucky for Matt but is sicknote status hasn't helped his cause. Cannot see how Sven could have played him with no experience without getting stick so probably for the best.

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 04:00 PM
Carragher should be there.
Jansen should not be there - he's never played int football before.
Keown is there and I think this isn't such a bad thing. Who else could cover Rio and Sol - Wes Brown already there, but really as cover for the Right Back, so Southgate and Keown are obvious. Ehiogh (SP?) is not quite the right international player.

Del Gland
09-05-2002, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!


What are you talking about, he's done really well since coming back from his injury

I just personally feel that he is on the verge of cracking under the pressure! Don't get me wrong, he is absolute class, but I worry about the "mind games" that the Argies, and others, may subject him to.

I can't see a lot of pretty football being played in this World Cup but can see that gamesmanship is going to be a major part. Shame really!!

John Smith
09-05-2002, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Del Gland
Oh my God..I've just spotted Keown!!

He is an absolute scumbag, a cheat, and above all bl@@dy lucky to be playing in a class team where he is not exposed!!

He was, however, our best player during Euro 2000

Del Gland
09-05-2002, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by AJ1969
What kind of a fool wouldn't take mcmanaman - what an idiot!!!!

duh-da-da- dada!!

09-05-2002, 04:05 PM
I feel very sorry for Murphy actually. I think he is a really promising player, has been in top form recently and played really well against Paraguay. He may still get in though as Butt has picked up an injury.

I agree that you couldn't take Jansen though - he's never even played for England before.

Not surpirsied by Keown at all - experienced, quality cover for the centre backs. Exactly what you need.

Am very surprised Brown got in ahead of Carragher though. Seems odd.

One can only assume Mills will start at right back. But who will be on that bloody left side of midfield?

TD2
09-05-2002, 04:05 PM
I am not unregistered, I am Top Dog!!!

Daddy Long
09-05-2002, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Levski
I think Brown and Mills can count themselves as very lucky.

Brown possibly, but not Mills. He has been considered as Nevilles understudy for a while now and has shown some good attacking play when given the chance for England. If he can keep his calm he'll do well for us over there. Can't see any of the Argies fancying taking him on :)

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
.

One can only assume Mills will start at right back. But who will be on that bloody left side of midfield?

hargreaves? Heskey?

sydney eagle
09-05-2002, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!
Carragher should be there.
yes he should and Mills shouldn't be:grrr:

TD2
09-05-2002, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Del Gland


I just personally feel that he is on the verge of cracking under the pressure! Don't get me wrong, he is absolute class, but I worry about the "mind games" that the Argies, and others, may subject him to.

I can't see a lot of pretty football being played in this World Cup but can see that gamesmanship is going to be a major part. Shame really!!

What on Earth are you on about????

Why would he crack under the pressure - he never has before, at any level.

What mind games do you refer to?

Why don't you think much pretty football will be played this World Cup?

Why will gamesmanship be a major part?

Explain yourself!

sydney eagle
09-05-2002, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by AJ1969
What kind of a fool wouldn't take mcmanaman - what an idiot!!!! :eek: :eek:

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by TD2


What on Earth are you on about????

Why would he crack under the pressure - he never has before, at any level.

What mind games do you refer to?

Why don't you think much pretty football will be played this World Cup?

Why will gamesmanship be a major part?

Explain yourself!

Who are we talking about?

Chantelle
09-05-2002, 04:10 PM
im happy with that squad not complaints at all!

TD2
09-05-2002, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!


hargreaves? Heskey?

Heskey will definetely start up front.

As for Hargreaves, I don't like the sound of that!

I really can't imagine who will play there. In the past it has been McManaman and Barmby but neither are going.

Who played there against Greece?

Daddy Long
09-05-2002, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!


hargreaves? Heskey?

If Beckham is fit then Dyer will play on the left

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by TD2



Who played there against Greece?

Can't remember. Was signing house contract and missed the game. At these points I hate Ryan Giggs.

TD2
09-05-2002, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!


Who are we talking about?

Ashley Cole.

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by TD2


Ashley Cole.

Great Going forward, but weaker at the back. However with our left sided problems I'd start with Ashley. He's young but very mature, will not crack, is not lazy, and will keep working, even at the worst of times.

Daddy Long
09-05-2002, 04:15 PM
I would start Bridge. He seems like a calmer head to me than Cole

NottsEagle
09-05-2002, 04:17 PM
Heskey hasn't played on the left side for ages! J Cole should start in that position, with Hargreaves at right-back.


-------------------Seaman---------------------


-Hargreaves--Campbell---Ferdinand--Bridge/Cole-


----Dyer-----Beckham-----Gerrard-----Cole-----


-------------Owen----Fowler/Heskey------------

Reps AJ
09-05-2002, 04:17 PM
what about Bridge at left back and Ashley Cole left midfield?

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
I would start Bridge. He seems like a calmer head to me than Cole

Its close between the two, but Cole has played more, plus in europe against far more continental defences (when fit anyway), so I think that may sway Sven, however I wouldn't be disappointed with Bridge starting.

TD2
09-05-2002, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long


If Beckham is fit then Dyer will play on the left

Beckham will be fit for the pre-tournament games.

Do you really think Dyer???

Paraguay was his first ever game under Sven, and he played poorly. Do you really think he will be thrown straight into the team?

Holmesdale Boy
09-05-2002, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Reps AJ
what about Bridge at left back and Ashley Cole left midfield?
I think thats Englands best option

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by NottsEagle
Heskey hasn't played on the left side for ages! J Cole should start in that position, with Hargreaves at right-back.


-------------------Seaman---------------------


-Hargreaves--Campbell---Ferdinand--Bridge/Cole-


----Dyer-----Beckham-----Gerrard-----Cole-----


-------------Owen----Fowler/Heskey------------

I like that team. Fowler to start though, but Mills ahead of Hargreaves. I think we should change depending on who we play. Nigeria are going to me much more physical than Argentina with Sweden in the middle.

It wasn't me!
09-05-2002, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Holmesdale Boy

I think thats Englands best option

I have to agree, although if not he'll still do the job!

Del Gland
09-05-2002, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by TD2


What on Earth are you on about????

Why would he crack under the pressure - he never has before, at any level.

What mind games do you refer to?

Why don't you think much pretty football will be played this World Cup?

Why will gamesmanship be a major part?

Explain yourself!

Eek..you sound like my missus!

Don't forget, we are English and are intimidated too easily. How many times have we seen Palace "bullied" out of a game and we all start moaning about how unfair it is. To us, little stunts like Van Nistleroy's dive at Ipswich the other week are fairly rare. In fact, most of the bad habits like falling into a defender are carried out by our foreign imports.

However, I really feel that the commercialism (God I hate that word and all it stands for) surrounding the World Cup has upstaged it as a football tournament. Instead of teams competing to see who is naturally the better team, there will be some that go out to win by any means, fair or foul.

I just feel that when some of our youngsters come up against the "old" heads, they are going to be intimidated and put off of their game. Ashley Cole is not the only one, there are several other youngsters that will feel it too. Let's not forget that some of them have only played in meaningless friendlies with no pressure on.

Daddy Long
09-05-2002, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by TD2


Beckham will be fit for the pre-tournament games.

Do you really think Dyer???

Paraguay was his first ever game under Sven, and he played poorly. Do you really think he will be thrown straight into the team?

Sven has been aching for Dyer to be fit to give him time on the left. He knows that Dyer is our best bet for that position. I would not be surprised to see the following team line up for our opener:

Seaman

Mills Ferdinand Campbell Cole

Beckham Gerrard Scholes Dyer

Owen Heskey

Pistike
09-05-2002, 04:26 PM
I dont take any interest in premier league football for a load of different reasons.

So please could someone tell me who these players are?

Bridge, Mills, Hargreaves & Vassell.

Also what club is David James with?

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 04:27 PM
How about scholes playing just bhind the front. Either dropping Fowler's Strike partner. Or Gerrard and Scholes in mid, and Beckham on the right with Cole on the left.

Just dropping that into your mental microwaves and seeing what cooks.

Daddy Long
09-05-2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by Pistike
I dont take any interest in premier league football for a load of different reasons.

So please could someone tell me who these players are?

Bridge, Mills, Hargreaves & Vassell.

Also what club is David James with?

Bridge - young Soutahmpton Left back

Mills - Leeds right back

Hargreaves - Bayern Munich midfielder

Vassell - Aston Villa forward (great pace)

David James is a happy hammer

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by Pistike
I dont take any interest in premier league football for a load of different reasons.

So please could someone tell me who these players are?

Bridge, Mills, Hargreaves & Vassell.

Also what club is David James with?

Bridge Soton
Mills Leeds
Hargreaves Munchen

James West HAm

TD2
09-05-2002, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by NottsEagle
Heskey hasn't played on the left side for ages! J Cole should start in that position, with Hargreaves at right-back.


-------------------Seaman---------------------


-Hargreaves--Campbell---Ferdinand--Bridge/Cole-


----Dyer-----Beckham-----Gerrard-----Cole-----


-------------Owen----Fowler/Heskey------------

NottsEagle you nutter!!!

No Paul Scholes?!?!?!?!?!?! A World Class player who scores vital goals.

Beckham in the middle???? What about all those crosses.

Hargreaves at right back? Are you sure? He's certainly never played there for England before. Is the World Cup really the place to start experimenting?

NottsEagle
09-05-2002, 04:47 PM
I think Ashley or Bridge would do well on the left side of midfield but I don't think its going to happen.

My team leaves Scholes out, which is a shame but it means Beckham can play centre where he is most effective and Dyer could be superb down the right!

The lad J Cole is going to light up this World Cup (if he gets the chance)

What does everyone think of Mills? I think he could get sent off quite easily and really mess things up for us. However, he might be the perfect player for a game like Argentina - I'd like to see him give them a taste of their own medicine (niggles, pinches, pulls etc.) without getting sent off though of course.

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 04:52 PM
Mills has got better. Sven has his discipline really sorted out. He's shown that with Smith and the other Leeds Crew.

NottsEagle
09-05-2002, 04:53 PM
TD2,

Admittedly I was being deliberately contraversial but I really think that that team could do well. Who would you have at right-back in the absence of the lad 'G' Neville?

Dyer isn't a bad crosser of the ball. And as for experimentation - a little bit of that won't hurt surely?

TD2
09-05-2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Pistike
I dont take any interest in premier league football for a load of different reasons.

So please could someone tell me who these players are?

Bridge, Mills, Hargreaves & Vassell.

Also what club is David James with?

What reasons would they be?

Surely you take interest in England games though??? They have all had games recently, and a certain Hargreaves played in the 5-1 drubbing of Germany - I know that and I wasn't even in the country at the time!

Daddy Long
09-05-2002, 04:54 PM
The following is a mail that I sent a mate who doubted Mills' ability and temperament:

I don’t know if I showed you this statistic before but its interesting…..

I’ll start by asking you a question…would you consider Ashley Cole to be a more reliable player than Mills? Would you agree that Mills gets much worse press than Cole and hence referees are more likely to come down hard on him than Cole?

Yes?

Well, this season Mills has earned 2R and 11Y

Cole has earned 1R and 9Y

Cole has missed more games this season through injury than Mills.

Pretty similar statistics eh? Especially when you take into account that referees are looking much more closely at Mills than Cole.

I think he will be fine. I think that after the first crunching tackle, the Argie left winger will be **** scared of going anywhere near Mills for the rest of the game.

Feather
09-05-2002, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long


Sven has been aching for Dyer to be fit to give him time on the left. He knows that Dyer is our best bet for that position. I would not be surprised to see the following team line up for our opener:

Seaman

Mills Ferdinand Campbell Cole

Beckham Gerrard Scholes Dyer

Owen Heskey

I agree. If everyone is fit I think this will be the opening team. The one position that I am not that sure about is left back. I think he may pick Bridge.

AJ1969
09-05-2002, 04:55 PM
qye? No comprendo hombre

Originally posted by Del Gland


duh-da-da- dada!!

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 04:56 PM
Goalkeepers: Robinson (Leeds), Taylor (Arsenal), Bywater (West Ham);

Defenders: Young (Charlton), Barry (Aston Villa), Riggott (Derby), King (Tottenham), Knight (Fulham),

Midfielders: Konchesky (Charlton); Pennant (Arsenal), Davis (Fulham), Jenas (Newcastle), Prutton (Nottm Forest), Carrick (West Ham), Parker (Charlton), Dunn (Blackburn);

Strikers: Defoe (West Ham), Smith (Leeds), Ameobi (Newcastle), Christie (Derby), Crouch (Aston Villa), Zamora (Brighton).


This is the U21 Squad.

Zamora In.

A damn fine team, nice to see ex-palace represented by Stuart Taylor.

TD2
09-05-2002, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by NottsEagle
I think Ashley or Bridge would do well on the left side of midfield but I don't think its going to happen.

My team leaves Scholes out, which is a shame but it means Beckham can play centre where he is most effective and Dyer could be superb down the right!

The lad J Cole is going to light up this World Cup (if he gets the chance)

What does everyone think of Mills? I think he could get sent off quite easily and really mess things up for us. However, he might be the perfect player for a game like Argentina - I'd like to see him give them a taste of their own medicine (niggles, pinches, pulls etc.) without getting sent off though of course.

It's not a "shame" to leave out Scholes - it's criminal. He is a truly World Class player who has experience at the very top level, and has a history of scoring crucial goals for us. To leave him out for Dyer would be wrong, and also won't happen. So we can forget it.

I agree about J Cole. I am torn between him and Dyer for that left sided position.

Despite having less natural talent than either of these two, I actually felt the boy Muprhy was the best suited right footer to play in this troublesome position. He has pace, guile, strength, two feet, is good in the tackle and can pass and cross well. Unfortunately he's not going!

As for Beckham being most effective in the centre I say to you simply - what the **** are you talking about freak?

Now to Mills. Some will find this surprising, but I really think he can be a revelation this WC. He is fast, strong, a solid tackler, commited and good with the ball. I honestly think that he can be everything Gary Neville has never been.

I'm sure he will manage to keep his cool as well - Sven will see to that, and he will realise himself he cannot make silly challenges.

Random*
09-05-2002, 05:09 PM
I'd go with Daddy Long's team too... except I'm not a big fan of Heskey, and would prefer to see Fowler up front.

However, the midfield does ooze goals - Scholes grabs goals regularly, Gerrard can always knock them in, and I think that we'll benefit from opposition defences trying too hard to close down Beckham every time he gets within 30 yards of goal.

It's because of the possibility of regular goals from elsewhere on the field that it makes sense to use Heskey as a holding player up front - he'll be able to receive the long balls and shield it until he has support.

Mills does worry me. I feel that he could do snap like Beckham did in '98...

TD2
09-05-2002, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!
Goalkeepers: Robinson (Leeds), Taylor (Arsenal), Bywater (West Ham);

Defenders: Young (Charlton), Barry (Aston Villa), Riggott (Derby), King (Tottenham), Knight (Fulham),

Midfielders: Konchesky (Charlton); Pennant (Arsenal), Davis (Fulham), Jenas (Newcastle), Prutton (Nottm Forest), Carrick (West Ham), Parker (Charlton), Dunn (Blackburn);

Strikers: Defoe (West Ham), Smith (Leeds), Ameobi (Newcastle), Christie (Derby), Crouch (Aston Villa), Zamora (Brighton).


This is the U21 Squad.

Zamora In.

A damn fine team, nice to see ex-palace represented by Stuart Taylor.

I've just had an idea for a game that I don't think has ever happened -

England V England U21

It would be a scorcher!

Pretty tight as well I'd imagine.

Daddy Long
09-05-2002, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by TD2



Now to Mills. Some will find this surprising, but I really think he can be a revelation this WC. He is fast, strong, a solid tackler, commited and good with the ball. I honestly think that he can be everything Gary Neville has never been.

I'm sure he will manage to keep his cool as well - Sven will see to that, and he will realise himself he cannot make silly challenges.

I with you there.

Random*
09-05-2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by TD2
Now to Mills. Some will find this surprising, but I really think he can be a revelation this WC. He is fast, strong, a solid tackler, commited and good with the ball. I honestly think that he can be everything Gary Neville has never been.

I'm sure he will manage to keep his cool as well - Sven will see to that, and he will realise himself he cannot make silly challenges.

Yeah, but when he's riled by an opposing player, will he be able to 'count to 10' instead of flying off the handle?

Daddy Long
09-05-2002, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Random*


Yeah, but when he's riled by an opposing player, will he be able to 'count to 10' instead of flying off the handle?

People used to say that about Viera.....

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long

People used to say that about Viera.....

Exactly

And will McCarthy deop Keane for that reason?

Mills is fine

David of Kent
09-05-2002, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long

I think he will be fine. I think that after the first crunching tackle, the Argie left winger will be **** scared of going anywhere near Mills for the rest of the game.

I'll wait and see about Mills at the World Cup (not a lot of other options), but he's really got his work cut out as Sweden play Ljunberg on the left and Argentina have Valencia's Kily Gonzalez there.

:sob:

The Omen
09-05-2002, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long

I think he will be fine. I think that after the first crunching tackle, the Argie left winger will be **** scared of going anywhere near Mills for the rest of the game.

I agree mostly with your comments - have you ever seen Argentinian football though?! I don't think a big tackle is going to put any Argy off - their football is full of disgusting tackles and violence on the pitch.

Daddy Long
09-05-2002, 05:26 PM
Cole was sent off against Mallorca.

The stats aren't exactly the same but they are similar enough to make a valid point. The fact that Mills plays for Leeds, has a shaved head, and is a hard player is enough for the Sun to label him the anti-christ the day after Neville got injured, and for him to be condemned as a brainless thug. Its not correct and its not fair. He will be a legend this WC. You heard it here first :)

David of Kent
09-05-2002, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!


Exactly

And will McCarthy deop Keane for that reason?

Mills is fine

Are you and Daddy Long kidding me. Keane and Vieira are quality players. You on the other hand are talking, in the same breath, Danny Mills :rolleyes:

David of Kent
09-05-2002, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
Cole was sent off against Mallorca.

The stats aren't exactly the same but they are similar enough to make a valid point. The fact that Mills plays for Leeds, has a shaved head, and is a hard player is enough for the Sun to label him the anti-christ the day after Neville got injured, and for him to be condemned as a brainless thug. Its not correct and its not fair. He will be a legend this WC. You heard it here first :)

Unfortunately, we don't have any other options so we have to support the guy, but in all honesty he is completely sh!te :grrr:

Cleon
09-05-2002, 05:30 PM
I've got to confess that I'd rather see Vassell upfront with Owen than Heskey. Heskey's greatest asset is that he scares defenses, especially if you remember the impact he had against Argentina a couple of years ago at Wembley. Maybe he's ideal against the Argentines again this year, but against Sweden, and possibly Nigeria, I'd much rather see Vassell. Whenever I've seen him play for England he causes team problems with his pace allied to his strength and a nice low centre of gravity. Perhaps Heskey could fill the role on the left side of midfield, but I think I would llike to see us line up against the Swedish as such:

--------------------Seaman-----------------

Mills---------Campbell-----Ferdinand-----Cole

Beckham------Scholes------Gerrard------Dyer

---------------Owen-------Vassell-----------

With J Cole, Heskey, Fowler, Southgate & Martyn on the bench

The Omen
09-05-2002, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Cleon

With J Cole, Heskey, Fowler, Southgate & Martyn on the bench

You don't have to name the bench - the whole squad can be used I think.

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by David of Kent


Are you and Daddy Long kidding me. Keane and Vieira are quality players. You on the other hand are talking, in the same breath, Danny Mills :rolleyes:

Yes but we are still talking about starting eleven in the world cup. this is a different team. And anyone who has seen Viera this year knows he's not as good as he has been in the past.

David of Kent
09-05-2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!


Yes but we are still talking about starting eleven in the world cup. this is a different team. And anyone who has seen Viera this year knows he's not as good as he has been in the past.

And yet still 10 times better than Mills ;)

Del Gland
09-05-2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by AJ1969
qye? No comprendo hombre



Everybody now...


Macmanaman

duh-da da dada

Macmanaman

duh duh duh duh

Macmanaman

duh-da dadada dadada dadada dadadadadad da da dada da

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by David of Kent


And yet still 10 times better than Mills ;)

Agreed (ish - maybe not 10), but if your problem with Mills is purely temprement, would you take the risk of replacing him with another, in which case why have him in the squad? I think he's fine. Anyway, Beckham isn't the most volatile player, but in '98 he showed it. So it goes to show, when the pressure is on anyone can crack.

Jaffa
09-05-2002, 05:44 PM
Id play Bridge over Cole any day.

Mateyboy
09-05-2002, 05:45 PM
Daddy Long has it spot-on. If Beckham is fit, that will be the starting eleven against Sweden. You mark my words.

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 05:45 PM
I'd play Backgammon over Heskey.

David of Kent
09-05-2002, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!


Agreed (ish - maybe not 10), but if your problem with Mills is purely temprement, would you take the risk of replacing him with another, in which case why have him in the squad? I think he's fine. Anyway, Beckham isn't the most volatile player, but in '98 he showed it. So it goes to show, when the pressure is on anyone can crack.

I didn't say I had any problem at all with Mills discipline, in fact if you read my posts you'll see that I've said he has to be in the team (principally as there is no other viable option if you also discount Chuckle Brother number 2 and Carragher).

My ONLY comments in a derogatory tone about Mills concern purely and simply his lack of quality. The guy is simply not a quality football player and looking at his potential opponents at the World Cup that has to be a worry.

Discipline is not my concern, just quality.

It wasn't me!
09-05-2002, 06:05 PM
I can't believe some of you would rather Bridge over Ashley. He will without a doubt be Sven's 1st choice. Ashley has more experience playing against international players than Bridge, that surely has to go in his favour.

I would choose Ashley any day!

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 06:06 PM
Thats fair enough. Though I do believe he has the bite and belief that most english teams in the past have lacked. He is also very strong, and this will be needed against our physical group teams. He tackles hard, and could really intimidate some forwards, much like Yugoslavia built a team on, only with england we could do it more fairly.

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!
Thats fair enough. Though I do believe he has the bite and belief that most english teams in the past have lacked. He is also very strong, and this will be needed against our physical group teams. He tackles hard, and could really intimidate some forwards, much like Yugoslavia built a team on, only with england we could do it more fairly.

This post related to Danny Mills.

David of Kent
09-05-2002, 06:08 PM
Just hoping I'm proved wrong about him. :p

It wasn't me!
09-05-2002, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!


This post related to Danny Mills.


Glad you said that! I didn't have a clue who you was talking about.

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 06:15 PM
Sorry. I forgot to mention his name and that was a bit silly.

Random*
09-05-2002, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
I've got to confess that I'd rather see Vassell upfront with Owen than Heskey. Heskey's greatest asset is that he scares defenses, especially if you remember the impact he had against Argentina a couple of years ago at Wembley.

Yes, but we have goalscorers in midfield - Heskey will be there for Owen to play off, as much as Sheringham was there for Shearer - he's a big guy, so he can receive the long passes upfield, and shield the ball until support arrives.

He also gives us some major aerial presence - which is always useful when you have crosses coming from Goldenballs himself.

Georgie Boy
09-05-2002, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long


Seaman

Mills Ferdinand Campbell Cole

Beckham Gerrard Scholes Dyer

Owen Heskey

My team choice exactly, subs depending on how the match is going.

I think the 23 is spot on. Some not-so-obvious choices but the whole squad gives Sven so many options.

Think about it, we probably have the most versatile team out of the lot of them. Almost every player can move to a different position comfortably!

David of Kent
09-05-2002, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Georgie Boy

Think about it, we probably have the most versatile team out of the lot of them. Almost every player can move to a different position comfortably!

If that's true can we play Joe Cole at right back then :clown:

Georgie Boy
09-05-2002, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by David of Kent


If that's true can we play Joe Cole at right back then :clown:

I said almost!!!:rolleyes: :p

Random*
09-05-2002, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Georgie Boy
Think about it, we probably have the most versatile team out of the lot of them. Almost every player can move to a different position comfortably!

So? For each game, you pick your best 11 players - you don't see Brazil, France or Italy changing their team about - they play their best 11 and if they have an injury, they bring in a replacement for that position.

The idea of 'Total football' as the Dutch used to play is a nice idea - but what did they ever achieve with it?

TD2
09-05-2002, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
The fact that Mills plays for Leeds, has a shaved head, and is a hard player is enough for the Sun to label him the anti-christ the day after Neville got injured, and for him to be condemned as a brainless thug. Its not correct and its not fair. He will be a legend this WC. You heard it here first :)

Actually second.

If you look back through the thread you will see that I declared Mills would be a "revelation" at this year's World Cup.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I want the plaudits!!!

David of Kent
09-05-2002, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by TD2


Actually second.

If you look back through the thread you will see that I declared Mills would be a "revelation" at this year's World Cup.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I want the plaudits!!!

I'd wait and see before I'd start claiming that one :eek:

Daddy Long
09-05-2002, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by TD2


Actually second.

If you look back through the thread you will see that I declared Mills would be a "revelation" at this year's World Cup.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I want the plaudits!!!

OK. You can have the BBS plaudits and I'll have the plaudits from all of my work colleagues and mates who I've been telling for bloody ages that Mills will be the boy.

If I was going to be a real pedant I'd say that I was already extolling Mills' virtues on page 4 and the top of page 7, that I spoon fed you the idea. But I won't. I'll be happy to share the kudos :)

TD2
09-05-2002, 08:33 PM
Well all I can say to that is c'mon Danny Boy!

That goes to all the lads actually - I really believe we can win this group.

:eek:

Ouch that Hurt!
09-05-2002, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by TD2
Well all I can say to that is c'mon Danny Boy!

:eek:

What have i got to do with this?

Holmesdale Boy
09-05-2002, 09:36 PM
I think everyone is overlooking Wes Brown to easily to start at the right back postion if he can prove his worth in the warm up games and he has played right back for Moan Utd

Sir.S.C Remembered
10-05-2002, 01:23 AM
I believe we CAN win the whole thing if a bit lucky.

However why Brown is there I don't know! Would much prefere Ehiougu and wanted Le Saux and maybe Macca and Jansen

Steve in Phoenix
10-05-2002, 01:26 AM
I dont think Sven will have decided on his starting 11.. he's said how much he looks forward to actually having more than 2 days training practice with his players. I reckon he'll be looking for developing chemistry like Beckham/Neville had. If Wes Brown has that with Beckham, he could well overtake Danny Mills. On the left I think it could be between J.Cole and Dyer and whoever shows the most promise in training will land the spot. Or the Bridge/ A.Cole link-up may be used if Sven fears the other team's right-winger.

Im pretty happy with the squad though. My biggest concern is that a midfield four of Beckham-Gerrard-Scholes-Cole/Dyer is pretty attacking and could leave our defense exposed at times. If that happens, Hargreaves should come on for a striker and Scholes move further forwards. Sven has given himself lots of nice options on the bench whatever he does.

Ben H
10-05-2002, 01:28 AM
I can't help thinking we'll be exposed down the right hand side. Is Mills really the best RB available..? I'm not a fan of Philip Neville but I would feel more secure with him playing there. Just a shame Carragher was injured.

10-05-2002, 02:10 AM
(This is really Elephant here.)

I am honestly staggered that there is anyone who believes Mills will be anything other than a complete joke. He'll get absolutely murdered.

You had better hope Brown shows up in training, like Steve Phoenix suggests. I also agree wth Steve that the probable midfield lacks defensive nous, especially as they will need to protect England's flimsy central pairing.

I think Sven will be found out this World Cup. Picking Mills and Keown is a disaster and not picking MacManaman is stupid.

The only plus point I can see with the squad is that there is plenty of pace, but that won't be enough against the the better sides.

pete eagle
10-05-2002, 02:26 AM
Phil Neville did not deserve his place in the squad. Mills i have reservations about, but i think he can keep his temperament in check under someone like Eriksson and is a reliable defender and bombs it outside the right winger which would be extremely useful if Beckham comes inside or Gerrard plays there.

Daniel_Nash
10-05-2002, 02:48 PM
Some people (well, Newsround yesterday did) have been saying it is a heavily defensive squad, i disagree with that. You need a few extra defenders, any bad tackles and they are usually in trouble and gonna be suspended.

I think he made the right decisions in the selection, although i have queries over Keown and Mills, mainly in terms of their temperament. Mills is a bit petulant sometimes, and Keown was going mental on wednesday thought he was going to lose it and lash out.

Good that Dyer and Joe Cole are there, bit of pace and skill never does any harm. Tricks opponents into giving away fouls, which Captain Beckham can hopefully dispose of and also creates chances for the front peeps to bury. Hopefully.

Sunny Fan
10-05-2002, 02:59 PM
I'm slightly concerned that we have four recently injured / generally injury prone players in midfield:

Beckham
Butt
Gerrard
Dyer

If we do progress, then a lot may end up depending on Joe Cole and Owen Hargreaves (as well as Scholes of course, but he might be suspended by then)

10-05-2002, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
(This is really Elephant here.)

I am honestly staggered that there is anyone who believes Mills will be anything other than a complete joke. He'll get absolutely murdered.

You had better hope Brown shows up in training, like Steve Phoenix suggests. I also agree wth Steve that the probable midfield lacks defensive nous, especially as they will need to protect England's flimsy central pairing.

I think Sven will be found out this World Cup. Picking Mills and Keown is a disaster and not picking MacManaman is stupid.

The only plus point I can see with the squad is that there is plenty of pace, but that won't be enough against the the better sides.

(This is the Dawg here - why does it think we are unregistered?!)

Elephant - I had no idea you were such a negative git!

Mills will be fine.

Why is picking Keown a disaster??? He is simply a back up defender in case of injuries. He has vast experience at all levels is reliable, and a great marker. What's the big deal? he probably won't get a kick anyway. All this argument over fringe players is totally unnecessary. In every squad there are five or six players who never even get on the pitch.

As to McManaman. The fact is, he's never played well for England in God knows how many games. He's had his chance and he's blown it every time. I'd much rather see Dyer or Joe Cole than a 30 year old who has never produced it for England.

Sven will be found out? What will we find out exactly? He performed a bloody miracle to get us here, and I'm just pleased we made it. Anything else is a bonus frankly.

You say you don't like the squad, but apart from Keown what other changes would you have made, and would they have been starters or just squad players anyway?

Pistike
10-05-2002, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by TD2


What reasons would they be?



My clubs play respectively in the English first division and the Hungarian national championship.

Originally posted by TD2
Surely you take interest in England games though???

Not really, the last time I watched an England game was a friendly in Budapest against Hungary.

I watch them play in tournaments but other than that I'm not really interested in international football.

There's something I don't like much about sitting next to some drunken muppet from Mansfield or Tadworth screaming EN GER LUND at the top of his lungs.

Sunny Fan
10-05-2002, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered


(This is the Dawg here - why does it think we are unregistered?!)


Because you haven't logged in yet. This is the only forum (along with Away Fans') that allows unregistered members to post, so therefore won't alert you to log in.

Elephant with mouse gyp
10-05-2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered

You say you don't like the squad, but apart from Keown what other changes would you have made, and would they have been starters or just squad players anyway?

The main problem is with his system, I think, is that it seems he wants to play the Liverpool way. Make England lie pretty deep and break out using long balls from Beckham and Gerrard to feed Heskey and Owen. It might have worked against Paraguay and Germany but better sides have better midfielders who will enjoy the ball and territory given to them by England. Far better, I think, to return to the Hoddle/Venables method of packing out the midfield. Sven's system is closer to Keegan's than theirs.

Even if you like the system, I think Sven has some of the wrong players to make it work. Scholes and Gerard are good players but aren't best suited to the role of protecting the central defenders.

It's true I've got things against Keown from a Palace perspective, though Andy Gray sorted him out at the Zenith Data cup final. But more than that - he may be okay in an Arsenal team that dominates other sides, but as a back foot defender, I think he is a liability. He has lost a bit of pace, will give away fouls and can't pass the ball.

Mills is not an international footballer by any stretch. He will also give away fouls. Killy Gonzalez and Ljungberg will murder him.

MacManaman plays regularly for probably the best side in the world. He did nothing wrong under Venables and has improved since.

Another player who can count himself unlucky is Carrick who would have been my choice to cover for the midfield as I agree with Sunny that England look a bit thin there.

Other changes? I wouldn't have Heskey anywhere near the team. For what it's worth (i.e. nothing) this is the side I would go with:

James
Hargreaves Southgate Ferdinand Campbell Cole
Beckham Gerard Scholes
Sheringham
Owen

El Aguila
10-05-2002, 03:42 PM
Elephant is not being negative, he supports Argentina. There are a few players in the squad I have no idea about either and have never seen play. On the other hand I've probably seen MacMannaman play more often than most recently and couldn't care less whether or not he's in the squad, he certainly shouldn't be in the starting line-up, so the question is whether you would rather have him or Cole on the bench. From the little I've seen of Cole, I would rather have him. The real problems of the England World Cup challenge are (i) the first-choice goalkeeper is about six years past his best, (ii) the first choice centre-back pairing doesn't convince me, (iii) there are too many players in the probable first team who aren't going to play three games a week without getting injured or suspended, i.e. Gerrard, Scholes, Dyer and possibly Beckham, and (iv) we don't seem to have a right-back at all, or is Mills a right-back? Otherwise it all comes down to expectations - I would say quarter-finals is about right. If England do better I shall be pleasantly surprised.

El Aguila
10-05-2002, 03:44 PM
Oh, and (v) Emil Heskey, do me a favour!

braker
10-05-2002, 03:46 PM
I'm suprised more peole arent talking about sheringham. Admittedly he was crap in '98 world cup, but people are saying heskey is like him. However sheringham is much cleverer, and will be able to put more quality balls through for owen

I'd like to see the team as

----------seaman------------

bridge-ferdinand-campball-mills

dyer--scholes--gerrard--becks
--------------sheringham----
----------owen

I am slightly worried that rio an sol have looked quite shakey at times, hopefuly that will rectify itself,

Ouch that Hurt!
10-05-2002, 03:52 PM
Anyone on my side in the Nigel Martyn for No1 keeper stakes? And this has nothing to do with Palace! Purely he has had more games and experience than Seaman this season, and has been in fine form bar a couple of games (not that Seaman hasn't impredded me recently). I do believe Nigel deserves the chance!

Jimbo ?
10-05-2002, 05:03 PM
a good squad!

Jimbo ?
10-05-2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Ouch that Hurt!
Anyone on my side in the Nigel Martyn for No1 keeper stakes? And this has nothing to do with Palace! Purely he has had more games and experience than Seaman this season, and has been in fine form bar a couple of games (not that Seaman hasn't impredded me recently). I do believe Nigel deserves the chance!


He is in with a shout but i also think David James is up there

Dario
10-05-2002, 05:37 PM
what about this to experiment with against south korea.

seaman
brown ferdinand campbell bridge
becks scholes gerrad a cole
heskey owen

bench:
martyn, mills, dyer, cole, sheringham or fowler.

worth a shot i think, this side doesnt need a lot of tinkering, maybe just a bit of fine tuning. i think this side is quite defensive, maybe if we go out to hammer sweden we might play mills at right back and move cole to left back with dyer coming in left wing. I'd play heskey mainly for his work rate as he takes a lot of pressure off owen and will no doubt be the victim of some grude challenges giving mickey alot more time and space to use his pace?

John Smith
10-05-2002, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered

However why Brown is there I don't know! Would much prefere Ehiougu and wanted Le Saux and maybe Macca and Jansen

Wes Brown is there largely because he can play right back. Strangely enough this position is now more of a problem than left back with the emergence of Cole and Bridge. Mills is the only out and out right back in the squad. Albeit Hargreaves has played there.

Keown may well get a kick. Don't be suprised to see him bought in to do a man marking job if circumstances require, perhaps from the start or if a particular player is dominating a game and needs to be nullified. This is in fact something he is good at.

I am also not convinced it will be Ferdinand and Campbell as the centre back pairing. Southgate may get a look in and can help steady the other as he is more of an organiser than either SC or RF. This is also where Seaman comes into his own. He is assured and experience, giving the defence confidence. i have been impressed lately by just how easy he makes everything look. Martyn has a habit of conceding bizarre goals where he is at fault.

10-05-2002, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp


The main problem is with his system, I think, is that it seems he wants to play the Liverpool way. Make England lie pretty deep and break out using long balls from Beckham and Gerrard to feed Heskey and Owen. It might have worked against Paraguay and Germany but better sides have better midfielders who will enjoy the ball and territory given to them by England. Far better, I think, to return to the Hoddle/Venables method of packing out the midfield. Sven's system is closer to Keegan's than theirs.

Even if you like the system, I think Sven has some of the wrong players to make it work. Scholes and Gerard are good players but aren't best suited to the role of protecting the central defenders.

It's true I've got things against Keown from a Palace perspective, though Andy Gray sorted him out at the Zenith Data cup final. But more than that - he may be okay in an Arsenal team that dominates other sides, but as a back foot defender, I think he is a liability. He has lost a bit of pace, will give away fouls and can't pass the ball.

Mills is not an international footballer by any stretch. He will also give away fouls. Killy Gonzalez and Ljungberg will murder him.

MacManaman plays regularly for probably the best side in the world. He did nothing wrong under Venables and has improved since.

Another player who can count himself unlucky is Carrick who would have been my choice to cover for the midfield as I agree with Sunny that England look a bit thin there.

Other changes? I wouldn't have Heskey anywhere near the team. For what it's worth (i.e. nothing) this is the side I would go with:

James
Hargreaves Southgate Ferdinand Campbell Cole
Beckham Gerard Scholes
Sheringham
Owen

Elephant man,
I can see where you're coming from but I think you're being a tad pessimistic. Also too simplistic - we may have a tendancy to play balls like that over the top, but it's not all we do.

For example, we didn't play in the style you describe against Paraguay - we played a good, passing game. I think we will play plenty of good passing football at the World Cup.

With regards to Keown in ZDS final, I have to point out that it was the Ninja who sorted out Keown with a nice elbow to the face. But as I said before - he is just back up and probably won't get a kick.

With regard to Danny Mills, you have no basis on which to say he is not international class. Give the man a chance!

Which brings me to McMananman - he has had numerous chances but has NEVER played well for England. His place deserves to go to the likes of Dyer/J Cole. Surely you can't deny this. Anyway, he's not a regular for Madrid as everyone has been making out.

As to Heskey, I completely agree. A waste of space. I would much rather see Fowler in there. The argument seems to be that he is a good foil for Owen. Not sure if that's the case though.

I actually quite like your team, but there is no way we will play 5-3-2 so just forget it man.

David of Kent
10-05-2002, 06:27 PM
Danny Mills should get some confidence going by just reading the pages on this thread. I'm amazed by how dogged the 3or4 of you that keep harping on about him are. You can't all be related to the folically challenged pikey!

You've only got to speak to a general group of people to get the impression that most aren't happy about his selection, but also that not many have a suitable alternative.

As I've said already, he's the best of a poor lot, and I'll support him like mad all the way through the World Cup with an England shirt on his back, but please can the people being critical without being constructive about him "shut it" till after the World Cup and the people who think he's international quality already.....the Dollond & Aitchison in Croydon has got some special offers on at the moment ;)

kolinkins
10-05-2002, 10:27 PM
i think sven will go for 4-4-2 as he usually does with the main grain of the teams that others have suggested. but, may i add a couple of alternatives - bridge on left midfield in a friendly just to see how he does.

and, sven plays 4-4-2 coz that is what the players are used to and he only has a couple of days to work with them usually. but, with him having a couple of weeks, i would like to see him go for 3-5-2. i think thios will suit england more coz:

1- cole and bridge are good going forward, not brilliant in defence - wing back would suit them.

2- with the problem at right back, dyer could play as a wing back

3- beckham could play in the middle, but on the right hand side of three - i feel he would excel there

4- maybe sven has this formation in mind hich would explain the choice of a extra centre-back - needed in 3-5-2

all in all, a good squad. my only change would have been one less defender, and an extra midfielder, either sinclair (can play on both wings) or dunn (can play anywhere across the midfield)

zonin2000
11-05-2002, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by braker
I'm suprised more peole arent talking about sheringham.


Exactly what I was going to post- most likely Sheringham will play an important part, but from the bench.

I was thinking about the possibility of him starting games, after all Owen-Sheringham would be a good partnership with bags of pace (Owen), aerial ability (Sheringham), nous (both) and experiecne (despite Owen's age, both again). However after giving the matter much thought I think Sven will start with Heskey and Owen and then bring either Vassell or Sheringham on for Emile, depending on the situtation. Despite being allocated the number 9 shirt, I doubt that Fowler will see much action which is a good reflection on our striking talent.

As for the other controversial issues, both full back positions are very close calls. One can make a strong case for either Bridge or Cole and although Cole might be slightly ahead of Bridge in Sven's mind, I'm sure that Sven is still to decide.

At right back we will miss Neville's experience, but I'm not against Danny Mills as I think his pace, aggresion and crossing ability (yes you heard me right!) will be a breath of fresh air. Wes Brown has the talent but I think he has a bit to prove during the warm up games.

On the left side of midfield I have a hunch that Sven prefers Dyer, and I'm not against the idea. I am a big Joe Cole fan, I think and hope that he will get more involved as the tournament progresses and I agree that he will be a big hit.

Seaman, Beckham, Scholes, Gerrrrrrard and Owen are certain starters, Campbell and Ferdinand are probably the first choice center back pairing and I do think that we have a solid spine to the team.

Let's get behind the boys and hope for the best. Anything can happen :p.

TD2
14-05-2002, 06:57 PM
It has all just become clear to me.

The solution to our midfield injury crisis is so clear!

We should play 3-5-2. The reasons for this are numerous:

- We have more defenders in the squad than anything else

- At least three midfielders are out injured including key man Gerrard

- With no Gary Neville, Owen Hargreaves at right wingback seems the best option

- Cole and Bridge are both better at going forward than defending so a wing back role would suit both of them better

- A back three of Southgate, Ferdinand and Campbell would be damn good, and Ferdinand beinging the ball out of defense would give us an extra dimension

- Beckham from his slightly more infield role could take over some of the passing that Gerrard would have done

Something like this would be ideal:

------------------Seamen-----------------

-----------------Ferdinand----------------
-----------Southgate--Campbell-----------
-Hargreaves-------------------------Bridge

------Beckham----J Cole-----Scholes------

----------------Sheringham---------------

------------------Owen-------------------

How about it?

Elephant with mouse gyp
14-05-2002, 07:01 PM
Well, obviously I agree with you Top Dog, but then I would as I said the same thing about 50 pages ago. Still, nice to see you have the capacity to learn. (You are right that the injuries make the case for 5-3-2 even more pressing.)

heinz 57
14-05-2002, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by TD2
It has all just become clear to me.

The solution to our midfield injury crisis is so clear!

We should play 3-5-2. The reasons for this are numerous:

- We have more defenders in the squad than anything else

- At least three midfielders are out injured including key man Gerrard

- With no Gary Neville, Owen Hargreaves at right wingback seems the best option

- Cole and Bridge are both better at going forward than defending so a wing back role would suit both of them better

- A back three of Southgate, Ferdinand and Campbell would be damn good, and Ferdinand beinging the ball out of defense would give us an extra dimension

- Beckham from his slightly more infield role could take over some of the passing that Gerrard would have done

Something like this would be ideal:

------------------Seamen-----------------

-----------------Ferdinand----------------
-----------Southgate--Campbell-----------
-Hargreaves-------------------------Bridge

------Beckham----J Cole-----Scholes------

----------------Sheringham---------------

------------------Owen-------------------

How about it?

:p like that a lot, could see goals coming from any of the front 5 plus hargreaves, three good centre backs and lots of passing ability - would also like to see Joe Cole given that sort of responsibility in the middle, it'd be a risk but it might just bring the best out of him.

Eagle Kneevil
14-05-2002, 07:08 PM
I think J Cole will be the unlikely star of the tournament - a bit like Owen four years ago. Vassell could play in a three-up-front and do a Schillaci. With the injuries, I would have picked McManaman just because he would have been fired in a way he hadn't been before. Sven doesn't like him because he petulently tried to mess around with Beckham's game in Albania - thinking he should be given the roving role. Apart from being ill-disciplined, it seems Sven felt two on the pitch at the same were a liability.

heinz 57
14-05-2002, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by TD2
It has all just become clear to me.

The solution to our midfield injury crisis is so clear!

We should play 3-5-2. The reasons for this are numerous:

- We have more defenders in the squad than anything else

- At least three midfielders are out injured including key man Gerrard

- With no Gary Neville, Owen Hargreaves at right wingback seems the best option

- Cole and Bridge are both better at going forward than defending so a wing back role would suit both of them better

- A back three of Southgate, Ferdinand and Campbell would be damn good, and Ferdinand beinging the ball out of defense would give us an extra dimension

- Beckham from his slightly more infield role could take over some of the passing that Gerrard would have done

Something like this would be ideal:

------------------Seamen-----------------

-----------------Ferdinand----------------
-----------Southgate--Campbell-----------
-Hargreaves-------------------------Bridge

------Beckham----J Cole-----Scholes------

----------------Sheringham---------------

------------------Owen-------------------

How about it?

:p like that a lot, could see goals coming from any of the front 5 plus hargreaves, three good centre backs and lots of passing ability - would also like to see Joe Cole given that sort of responsibility in the middle, it'd be a risk but it might just bring the best out of him.

14-05-2002, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp
Well, obviously I agree with you Top Dog, but then I would as I said the same thing about 50 pages ago. Still, nice to see you have the capacity to learn. (You are right that the injuries make the case for 5-3-2 even more pressing.)

Elephant Man - have I done something mto annoy you?!

I appreciated as I wrote it that you had made a similar case.

However, with Gerrard and Dyer fit, I still felt Sven would play a 4-4-2.

It is only now that we have a real midfield crisis that I think Svennis might consider playing a 3-5-2 and therefore it is worthy of discussion.

Don't worry - I wasn't trying to steal your thunder!

El Aguila
14-05-2002, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered


Elephant Man - have I done something mto annoy you?!

I appreciated as I wrote it that you had made a similar case.

However, with Gerrard and Dyer fit, I still felt Sven would play a 4-4-2.

It is only now that we have a real midfield crisis that I think Svennis might consider playing a 3-5-2 and therefore it is worthy of discussion.

Don't worry - I wasn't trying to steal your thunder!
I still don't think he'll play that way - managers always think their pet systems are bigger than the players they have to fit into them. But he should have thought about it because these two injuries were hardly unsurprising, were they? Those two were never going to be able to play three times a week.

zonin2000
14-05-2002, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by TD2
We should play 3-5-2. The reasons for this are numerous:

Something like this would be ideal:

------------------Seamen-----------------

-----------------Ferdinand----------------
-----------Southgate--Campbell-----------
-Hargreaves-------------------------Bridge

------Beckham----J Cole-----Scholes------

----------------Sheringham---------------

------------------Owen-------------------

How about it?

Yeah I thought of something similar yesterday when it became clear that Dyer would probably miss the tournament.

I'd agree with your team but I'd have Heskey starting ahead of Sheringham (crazy? me? hear me out). I like the idea of having Heskey on for about the first hour, to unsettle the opposition with his power. Then, depending on the situation we could have the guile of Sheringham or the pace of Vassell to bring on.

Another point, the midfield is perhaps slightly too attack minded and would initially have Butt instead of Joe Cole. The way I hope it goes, is that Cole makes his first appearance in the second half of the Argentina game, surprising the opposition and forcing his way into the starting line up for the rest of the tournament.

Oh and as for the Cole/Bridge debate, I can't decide either way. Happily, I don't mind who gets chosen, I am confident that either could perform well.