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James
18-05-2002, 12:54 PM
We have been discussing the likely departure of Morrison from Palace during the Summer. Only a few optimists among us believe that Clint will still be with us when the Season gets going again in Summer.

Yesterday the Independent (a Newspaper with a high degree of accuracy when it comes to predicting Palace matters) suggested that Freedman would also be off quite soon.

I believe that we may shortly witness a mass exodus of our top names. The fees received will be much less than we might expect as well. Jordan will, I am sure, blame the ITV Digital fiasco, but I suspect the problems might be deeper than this. I have never felt so gloomy about Palace's prospects.

Please feel free to plough in and try to convince me (and everyone else) that this is disloyal scaremongering, motivated by my irrational dislike of Simon Jordan. Believe me, if I am wrong, I will be very happy to have this post shoved into my face in a few months time.

Samo*
18-05-2002, 12:58 PM
James,you the most optamistic bloke i have ever had the pleasure to meet,so do you think we might stay up next season or what! :)

James
18-05-2002, 01:04 PM
I honestly think that next Season will be a struggle. If I am right and we have Akinbiyi up front, with no Morrison or Freedman, it is hard to see how we might be challenging for promotion!

LLCOOLSTEVE
18-05-2002, 01:24 PM
Haven't heard anything about Dougie leaving, but do know for a fact that they have been finalising a new contract for him.


:confused:

Samo*
18-05-2002, 01:27 PM
I think we will go up next season.:D

congress
18-05-2002, 01:33 PM
James, have you a copy of the article as I have tried looking for it to read it but cannot find it.If Jordan was to sell both of them, I think people will start to become fed up with the club is being run and will start to show this by not coming through the turnstile.

If he has to sell Morrison, lets hope that Clinton has a good World Cup to add some value to transfer fee.Dougie Freedman has said that he loves playing for the club so I cannot see many teams that he would go to in the First Division.He is a very good striker in the First Division but would a Premier League team pay a fee for him and gamble?

Jimbo ?
18-05-2002, 01:34 PM
sorry but i dont think we are strong enough to go up - too many weaknesses in the squad (def/midfield)
I dont think Jordan will let them both go - clint i think it is time to cash in on if we get 7-8M

pete eagle
18-05-2002, 01:38 PM
I thought Bruce has already said that he will not bid for Morrison because he doesn't want to 'rub salt in the wounds of Palace fans'.

I read this little article in the Daily Mail as well and i wonder where this high class journalism comes from.:rolleyes: It's rumours that get recycled with different clubs and different prices, nothing from any Palace source at all or in fact any Birmingham source which may give the rumour some shred of credibility

As for Freedman, Jordan knows that if he sells him he will face the wrath of the fans and I don't think he wants to have that when he needs all the fans in the ground to bring the money in

Rash the Smash
18-05-2002, 01:46 PM
I don't believe that we will sell Morrison AND Freedman. Whilst accepting that the "Independent" can be classified as one of the less sensationalist football rumour papers I believe the comments regarding the sale of Freedman to relate solely to whether a new contract can be agreed.If not, you can understand the theory of 1m now is better than nothing in a years time.
However, rational thought may be unnecessary as I have seen postings this morning saying that Peter Taylors coming and he'll be buying Zamora.................So thats all right then.
:hmph:

Jimbo ?
18-05-2002, 02:07 PM
i would love zamora to be ahit with palace but cant see him coming and cant see taylor coming either - remember zamora will be playing against us next year - so it will not be picking up a lower league player any more!!!!!

Pete B
18-05-2002, 02:23 PM
Here we go again. More scaremongering.

Anyone stopped to think that 95% of the clubs in this division are in the same boat - and most are in a worse position than us? So even if we do dispose of some of our top names, so will Derby (Riggott, Christie), Coventry (Thompson, Hughes and Carsley already), Leicester (Savage, Izzett, Rowett), Ipswich (Stewart, Bent, Holland), Brighton (Zamora), Millwall (Reid, Cahill, Sadlier), Pompey (Crouch already, Prosinecki), Preston (Macken already, Alexander), Norwich (Mulryne, Dury, Holt), Sheff Utd (Brown, Tonge), Wimbledon (Morgan, Hughes, Shipps) just for starters. And where are all these players going to go anyway?

As far as I can see it Wolves are the only team capable of retaining a strong team.

Neckinger Eagle
18-05-2002, 02:59 PM
I saw the article in the Daily Mail too.

"Cash-strapped Crystal Palace are preparing to sell strikers Clinton Morrison and Dougie Freedman. The departure of Morrison, already a 5 million tarhet for newly promoted Birmingham City, has been expected, but the loss of Freedman - whoose goal kept Palace out of the second Division a year ago - will hit fans hard. Manager Trevor Francis is leaving owner simon Jordan to make the final decision."

The fact we don't like what it says doesn't mean it is inaccurate. :(

I agree with James that if we have to sell our better players, don't expect them to go for big bucks. The money isn't in the market any more. One of the reasons Bradford wehnt into Administration was that with the collapse of the ITV Digital deal they couldn't sell two or three players to balance the books any more. That's not Bradford being broke, that's the prospective buyers being short of the cash.

I also agree with Pete B, nearly all the other Division 1 clubs are in the same boat as us. I'd say Wolves are OK, and perhaps Portsmouth if only because their owner is his "own man" and likes to flash the cash. However, I think we will struggle because our manager isn't any good. :(

James
18-05-2002, 03:16 PM
I know that some BBS regulars won't accept the reports, which is fair enough. Sooner or later we will know the truth.

The fact is, Freedman has just a year left of his contract. After that he will be on a Bosman. The Club probably can't afford to offer him the sort of terms on a new contract that someone like Freedman would demand (and indeed deserve), so I think he may well be off. The Club certainly won't allow him to leave for nothing next year. I know that Freedman is happy, and settled, at Palace. His move (if my fears are justified) will not be of his choosing. Having said that, if I were Freedman, I wouldn't be that excited by the prospect of playing alongside Akinbiyi, if Morrision goes.

Here comes the Jordan shot: If the reports are correct, can you believe that Jordan has spent 2.4m on a ****** donkey - and then has to sell our two best players? I can understand Morrison (or possibly Mullins) going - clubs like Palace are always going to struggle to hang on to good young players. But selling Freedman would be a disgrace - and I'm sure there will be a huge backlash from fans. Yes, even some of the Jordan sycophants on the BBS. I suppose that will be some, small, consolation.

brighton_eagle
18-05-2002, 03:17 PM
Well, time will tell, but I for one would be extremely surprised. No offence to Dougie, but he hasn't exactly shone in the Premiership, and which first div club is going to buy him, for the kind of money Jordan wants? Most of them aren't in a position to spend much at all.

Clint is another story, but I will be unfailingly optimistic and say he'll still be a Palace player at the start of the season.

Pete B makes a good point. There are many clubs in a more perilious position than us. Don't forget we are much leaner than many because of the administration period. A flood of players on the market will be prices down, of course, but it may also, finally, bring about a drop in wage expectations.

TAK
18-05-2002, 03:18 PM
James, I bought the indy yesterday and couldn't see siad article, please enlighten me to what it said.

James
18-05-2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by congress
James, have you a copy of the article as I have tried looking for it to read it but cannot find it.

I don't have a copy to hand. I read it at the Office yesterday (we have all the daily broadsheets in our reception). However, the article in the Mail is very similar, and that has been reproduced above.

James

clubbruggekvfc
18-05-2002, 03:21 PM
I've seen reports the following staff are being released on free transfers:

Harrison
Rubins
Van Gogh
Jordan
Lim
Francis
Akinbiyi

The above mentioned were good people but they've not been firing on all cylinders for the club of late and I think we would be right to move them on and make a fresh start.

James
18-05-2002, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by TAK
James, I bought the indy yesterday and couldn't see siad article, please enlighten me to what it said.

It was on back page, as part of a summary of various football rumours, headed by some stuff about Liverpool chasing Cisse. From memory, it said that Morrison and Freedman were probably on their way - Freedman, if an offer of 1million came in. Despite the cash problems, I would have thought that several clubs would be interested in Freedman at 1 million.

Does anyone have a copy of the Indy to hand?

wedgetail
18-05-2002, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by James

Yesterday the Independent (a Newspaper with a high degree of accuracy when it comes to predicting Palace ma
tters)

One accurate story from one insider leak

James
18-05-2002, 03:28 PM
I have found it on the Independent Web Site:

Crystal Palace are preparing to sell their strikers Clinton Morrison and Dougie Freedman. Morrison is already the subject of interest from newly promoted Birmingham City with a 5m bid being prepared. However, Freedman will also be sold if an offer of around 1m comes in because the Palace chairman, Simon Jordan, fears he will lose him for nothing in a year's time.

LLCOOLSTEVE
18-05-2002, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by James


Freedman, if an offer of 1million came in. Despite the cash problems, I would have thought that several clubs would be interested in Freedman at 1 million.



The thing is, Dougie just does not want to leave.........he want's to see out the rest of his career at the club,and if under contract he can't be forced to leave.........he is happy, just bought a new house in area and has a new born baby aswell. SJ has offered him a new contract, and he want's to sign.

James
18-05-2002, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE


The thing is, Dougie just does not want to leave.........he want's to see out the rest of his career at the club,and if under contract he can't be forced to leave.........he is happy, just bought a new house in area and has a new born baby aswell. SJ has offered him a new contract, and he want's to sign.

I'm not denying most of this - however you are wrong about Jordan having offered him a new contract. I know that he is happy at Palace (and he doesn't want to move). Unfortunately Freedman's wishes are not the important thing here. Wake up and smell the coffee people.

WorthingEagle
18-05-2002, 03:41 PM
2.4m for Akinbiyi or a new contract for Freedman and a bosman midfielder + striker?

Why can't we be one of those sensible well-run clubs like Charlton or Ipswich? :veryangry

dannyturner
18-05-2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by James


I'm not denying most of this - however you are wrong about Jordan having offered him a new contract. I know that he is happy at Palace (and he doesn't want to move). Unfortunately Freedman's wishes are not the important thing here. Wake up and smell the coffee people.

James, you have been sucked in by some cock and bull story in an oversized newspaper. I take it you don't drink coffee, and you probably don't wake up that often.:D

LLCOOLSTEVE
18-05-2002, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by James


however you are wrong about Jordan having offered him a new contract.

:rolleyes:

18-05-2002, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by James
I honestly think that next Season will be a struggle. If I am right and we have Akinbiyi up front, with no Morrison or Freedman, it is hard to see how we might be challenging for promotion!
As has been pointed out elsewhere, next season will be a financial struggle, not only for Palace, but for most teams in the Nationwide, due to the collapse of the ITV-Digital deal. Even if Jordan may have been unable to predict the loss of the TV money, his decision several weeks ago to persuade most of the Reserve side to find other clubs has turned out quite beneficial for CPFC. He has also decided not to renew the contracts of some senior players, and like other clubs, he may well have to sell one or two star players to make up the shortfall in revenue. Nevertheless, unlike you James, I expect him and his manager to do this judiciously, and doubt if they are likely to plunge the club into a playing crisis by getting rid of good players without first finding adequate replacements. How are they likely to do this? Surely, by going after some of the many good Nationwide players among the hundreds that will be looking for good alternative employment with leading Clubs in the First Division this summer. I will be very surprised if Kember, Bullivant and Francis together, haven't already got a pretty good idea of the squad of players they will need to give Palace a good chance of making a serious promotion challenge next season.

Benny B Block
18-05-2002, 03:59 PM
James, did Jordan wrong you in another life?
I admit he is no saint and probably hasn't got the wealth that many think he has, but it seems every time you write it is to further scaremonger the clubs financial situation and further insult Jordans position as Chairman.

Perhaps your pal Noades can come back and you can live happily ever after.

Pete B
18-05-2002, 04:04 PM
A) Freedman is not a proven Premiership player and if bought by one of them would only be a squad player unless it was Brum or WBA who are coming back down anyway..

B) As has been pointed out how many other Div One clubs could actually afford his fee (even if it is only 1m) or wages.

C) I tend to believe LLCS here as he has been proven correct about DF stories on countless occasions.

By the way James didn't your chum Noades also sell DF for a ridiculous fee prior to his contract expiring back in '97?

c_block_lad
18-05-2002, 04:04 PM
The silly season as well and truly started.

Pete B
18-05-2002, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Benny B Block
James, did Jordan wrong you in another life?
I admit he is no saint and probably hasn't got the wealth that many think he has.

Believe me he is far from being broke.

Al From Bromley
18-05-2002, 04:19 PM
James is just a scaremonger with an axe to grind. Why not enjoy the summer, despite the sh*t weather and worry about Jordan's finances etc. next season? So what if Morrison and Freedman go, there's plenty more fish in the sea. OK, fish that can't hit a cow's arse from 5 yards, but fish nevertheless. Something will turn up in the way of sponsorship etc....it always does.

Love and kisses

Mr Happy
Bromley Towers
(and all this following 4 bottles of wine between two and copious amounts of Port last night. Feeling like sh*t personally but optimistic as always about Palace)

PeterH
18-05-2002, 04:21 PM
Tell me where the newspapers got the story from, I cannot see anyone other than a players agent leaking this. Personally I think they have made it up.

For what its worth the Croydon Guardian says there are a number of players with only a year left on their contract. Black, Jules, Austin and Freedman. It said Palace were wanting to extend the contracts of three of the players to stop them going on Bosmans next year. Said the exception was Austion because ofn his age. Carried on to say that Freedman knew that SJ wanted to get him in his office and sign the extension and he (Freedman) wanted to sign because he wants to play for Palace.

Now that was printed in a local paper, do you believe that or what you nhave read in the Nationals. Bearing in mind that with the countless number of people on the BBS that claim to have inside contacts, this story hasn't surfaced before. I will go with the local paper thankyou.

Freedman may leave, contract extensions are delicate. He probably feels he is worth a tidy increase for his contribution the last two seasons, especially one particular goal. SJ may feel that its time to implement changes in wage structure and negotiation basis that are now inevitable after the TV money collapse. If this hits an impasse SJ may consider an offer of over 1m good business for a player with a fast receeding contract. Add to this the supposed fractuous relationship between TF and DF late on in the season and he could certainly be considered surplus. We may hear stories akin to Linnigan at the next fans forum, i.e. disruptive senior player.

As fans we can do little but watch our players go in these circumstances, perhaps the best barometer is if proceeds are channelled to buying replacements or buying the ground. If not then I would suggest that despite SJs obvious big c@ck he would have little substance to back it up.

Shall we wait and see, and perhaps revive this thread in a couple of months as well.

Crunchie
18-05-2002, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by PeterH
Tell me where the newspapers got the story from, I cannot see anyone other than a players agent leaking this. Personally I think they have made it up.

For what its worth the Croydon Guardian says there are a number of players with only a year left on their contract. Black, Jules, Austin and Freedman. It said Palace were wanting to extend the contracts of three of the players to stop them going on Bosmans next year. Said the exception was Austion because ofn his age. Carried on to say that Freedman knew that SJ wanted to get him in his office and sign the extension and he (Freedman) wanted to sign because he wants to play for Palace.

Now that was printed in a local paper, do you believe that or what you nhave read in the Nationals. Bearing in mind that with the countless number of people on the BBS that claim to have inside contacts, this story hasn't surfaced before. I will go with the local paper thankyou.

Freedman may leave, contract extensions are delicate. He probably feels he is worth a tidy increase for his contribution the last two seasons, especially one particular goal. SJ may feel that its time to implement changes in wage structure and negotiation basis that are now inevitable after the TV money collapse. If this hits an impasse SJ may consider an offer of over 1m good business for a player with a fast receeding contract. Add to this the supposed fractuous relationship between TF and DF late on in the season and he could certainly be considered surplus. We may hear stories akin to Linnigan at the next fans forum, i.e. disruptive senior player.

As fans we can do little but watch our players go in these circumstances, perhaps the best barometer is if proceeds are channelled to buying replacements or buying the ground. If not then I would suggest that despite SJs obvious big c@ck he would have little substance to back it up.

Shall we wait and see, and perhaps revive this thread in a couple of months as well.

Excellent post.

My 'gut' feeling is, that the stumbling block is the stressed relationship between DF and TF.

DF loves the club and wants to say. That all said, its a difficult thing to do when you have to work for a manager you don't respect.

I know most of us, have been in that situation ourselves at work in some point in our lives. That said, football is different, and even under the current situation with the finances of clubs, I think DF would attract interest elsewhere for 1M.

Just for the record James, I do believe SJ wants Dougie to stay.

TF out!

PeterH
18-05-2002, 05:18 PM
Yes Crunchie, I too believe SJ wants DF, but he supports his managers decisions, well his bad managers anyway. SC & SB can feck off.

I am now having a cup of tea, I smelt and drunk two cups of coffee am fully awake and have had no startling revelations about our bankrupt club.

Ian Hart
18-05-2002, 05:27 PM
As the story appeared in two national newspapers I don't thoink it should be automatically dismissed out of hand - it might well have a semblance of truth in it. I certainly hope not, though.

According to the version in the Mail, SJ feels we need to sell them both for financial reasons. Morrison was always liable to move. However, if we've got to sell Freedman because we've got no money, after spending the money we did have on Akinbiyi, I'd be very upset. If true - and I stress the word "if" - it would mean we'd effectively swapped Akinbiyi for Freedman. Not much of a swap, is it.

AJ
18-05-2002, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Pete B


Believe me he is far from being broke.

When people question Jordan's financial state, I like to ask them to think, why Jordan choses to live in Spain for over 6 months of the year?

For those who cannot figure it out, it is to prevent him paying too much tax in the UK.

You only pay tax on earnings, so, to me that suggests Jordan is earning enough money through whatever source to make use of the tax laws in Spain and the UK.

Of course, I could be totally wrong and Jordan is actually living in Spain, because he likes the sun:p

Latvian Eagle
18-05-2002, 06:03 PM
Well if both go I suppose we're going to have to trust/rely upon the academy. I mean we never know. Gareth Williams could be the next Morrison. Kabba might actually become good (how horrifying to think we could have Akinbiyi and Kabba up front together :eek: ) We have the prospects there to come through. I believe those who are being offered pro contracts this season are Routledge, Cronin, Borrowdale, Watson and Antwi. Could all be intresting. Did anyone notice on the players programme that Warren was arguing with Murray Jones? Perhaps he was released because of his attitude, as it was undoubtedly that he wasa talented footballer.

Streatham man
18-05-2002, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by James

I believe that we may shortly witness a mass exodus of our top names. The fees received will be much less than we might expect as well. Jordan will, I am sure, blame the ITV Digital fiasco, but I suspect the problems might be deeper than this. I have never felt so gloomy about Palace's prospects.


How much of this may have to do with the players feelings about TF?

Streatham man
18-05-2002, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle
[B]Well, time will tell, but I for one would be extremely surprised. No offence to Dougie, but he hasn't exactly shone in the Premiership, and which first div club is going to buy him, for the kind of money Jordan wants? /B]

Answer: It could be a prem team that buys him. Is it so far fetched to think it could be Birmingham City and the traitor? We all know how well Clinton and Dougie play as a unit, feeding off each other. Steve Bruce knows it, too, and already has put in an initial bid for Clint (TF doesn't get it but that's another story: see multiple threads on TF's cluelessness). Is it so far fetched to think he'd like to buy the two as a package? SJ won't want to sell, but if the price is right, and if other factors come into play (such as difficulty in signing Dougie to a new contract), who knows?

Streatham man
18-05-2002, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Crunchie


Excellent post.

My 'gut' feeling is, that the stumbling block is the stressed relationship between DF and TF.

DF loves the club and wants to say. That all said, its a difficult thing to do when you have to work for a manager you don't respect.

I know most of us, have been in that situation ourselves at work in some point in our lives. That said, football is different, and even under the current situation with the finances of clubs, I think DF would attract interest elsewhere for 1M.

Just for the record James, I do believe SJ wants Dougie to stay.

TF out!

Reading between the lines, I think this is the correct analysis. It also fits with the newspaper article's strange point about TF leaving the decision up to SJ (which may suggest that TF has recommended to SJ that Freedman not be resigned).

Streatham man
18-05-2002, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Al from Bromley
[B] So what if Morrison and Freedman go, there's plenty more fish in the sea.
/B]

Al from Bromley -- are you TF in disguise? :eek: :eek:

Streatham man
18-05-2002, 07:04 PM
Calling all Francis apologists!

If Dougie Freedman is sold as a result of disagreements with TF, will you continue to back him as CPFC manager?

If we end up next season without Clint and Dougie (more than 40 goals combined), will you still defend him to the death?

At what point will you say "enough is enough" and work to rid the club of the dour TF regime? The future of the club is at stake.

LLCOOLSTEVE
18-05-2002, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Streatham man
Calling all Francis apologists!

If Dougie Freedman is sold as a result of disagreements with TF, will you continue to back him as CPFC manager?



He won't be sold as a result of disagreements with TF. :rolleyes:

pallet
18-05-2002, 07:10 PM
Without Dougie and Clint he will sack himself as we will be in the bottom three for most of the season:sob:

PalaceFan in Alabama
18-05-2002, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Al from Bromley
James is just a scaremonger with an axe to grind. Why not enjoy the summer, despite the sh*t weather and worry about Jordan's finances etc. next season? Feeling like sh*t personally but optimistic as always about Palace)

On one thread this morning I am having a go at you and yet here I am in total agreement with you :confused:

James you must try to get over your problem with SJ, life is far too short:p

James
18-05-2002, 07:13 PM
Quite right - if he is sold, it will have nothing to do with Francis. My understanding is that Francis wants to keep him, and Freedman wants to stay.

I'm merging this with the 'Mass Clear Out' thread on the transfer forum.

James

LLCOOLSTEVE
18-05-2002, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by PalaceFan in Alabama


On one thread this morning I am having a go at you and yet here I am in total agreement with you :confused:

James you must try to get over your problem with SJ, life is far too short:p

Make love not war. :)

Streatham man
18-05-2002, 07:15 PM
how do you know Francis wants to keep him?

pete eagle
18-05-2002, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Streatham man
how do you know Francis wants to keep him?

LLCOOLSTEVE knows Dougie

Streatham man
18-05-2002, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by James
Quite right - if he is sold, it will have nothing to do with Francis. My understanding is that Francis wants to keep him, and Freedman wants to stay.

I'm merging this with the 'Mass Clear Out' thread on the transfer forum.

James

Or would you just rather blame SJ? Would fit your modus operandi....:)

Streatham man
18-05-2002, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by pete eagle


LLCOOLSTEVE knows Dougie

thanks, and that's a good source. thanks for clarifying

James
18-05-2002, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by PalaceFan in Alabama
James you must try to get over your problem with SJ, life is far too short:p

Well, I know that's true. Far too short for some.

The fact is PFiA, I enjoy my role as BBS imbecile and Jordan attacker. If it winds you up, then my job is done!

LLCOOLSTEVE
18-05-2002, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by James

Jordan attacker

Encore, Encore!!!!! :D

Mong!
18-05-2002, 07:43 PM
Im not being funny but remember the daily mail said about a year ago we were in mass financial trouble again....

PalaceFan in Alabama
18-05-2002, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by James
Well, I know that's true. Far too short for some.

The fact is PFiA, I enjoy my role as BBS imbecile and Jordan attacker. If it winds you up, then my job is done!

Glad I made your day :rolleyes:

Will S
18-05-2002, 08:30 PM
Just to speculate without any hard facts (doesn't seem to be stopping anyone else...)

... but it wouldn't surprise me if the ITV Digital situation has hit Palace harder than perhaps any of us previously suspected. And if Jordan's strategy has been to play down the problem publicly - well I don't see a huge crime in this. Pointing to Jordan's own financial wealth seems rather daft - bankrupting yourself in the process of salvaging the black hole of a football club's accounts isn't the brightest move, as Mark Goldberg would doubtless agree.
Hard decisions may well have to be made, and selling Morrison, Freedman and one or two others may be the price to pay to avoid another financial disaster. And we're hardly alone in that situation at the moment, though you may query why splashing 2.2 million on a player, when you knew this situation was coming down stream, was the shrewdest move in the world - especially on a player you'd be unlikely to sell on for a similar or improved fee. I don't think we'll be seeing too many big signings this summer, at Palace or anywhere else in the First Division, and I think a minor exodus of popular players is sadly more a probability than a possibility.
However, Akinbiyi's injury (genuinely sad news in my book - he needed a good pre-season) may have an effect. It's looking as if we were going to be relying on him, and I'd hope that even Jordan isn't so impetuous that he wouldn't stagger some of these sales in order to maintain some chance of on the field success.
I also think the chances of Peter Taylor coming to Palace are slim - sounds like he's got a good agent though. ;)
What we really could do with though, is a manager who's used to working on a slim budget, making silk purses out of sows ears, and can generate a strong team spirit in adversity.
But then he's off to Brighton...

Sir.S.C Remembered
18-05-2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by pete eagle


As for Freedman, Jordan knows that if he sells him he will face the wrath of the fans and I don't think he wants to have that when he needs all the fans in the ground to bring the money in



One word

COPPELL

Trolley
18-05-2002, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Will S
Just to speculate without any hard facts (doesn't seem to be stopping anyone else...)

... What we really could do with though, is a manager who's used to working on a slim budget, making silk purses out of sows ears, and can generate a strong team spirit in adversity.
...

Step forward Mr Cotterill who has performed with great distinction at Cheltenham or even Mr Kinnear who was my choice to replace both Messrs Smith and Bruce.

Nobby
18-05-2002, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Will S
Just to speculate without any hard facts (doesn't seem to be stopping anyone else...)

... but it wouldn't surprise me if the ITV Digital situation has hit Palace harder than perhaps any of us previously suspected. And if Jordan's strategy has been to play down the problem publicly - well I don't see a huge crime in this. Pointing to Jordan's own financial wealth seems rather daft - bankrupting yourself in the process of salvaging the black hole of a football club's accounts isn't the brightest move, as Mark Goldberg would doubtless agree.
Hard decisions may well have to be made, and selling Morrison, Freedman and one or two others may be the price to pay to avoid another financial disaster. And we're hardly alone in that situation at the moment, though you may query why splashing 2.2 million on a player, when you knew this situation was coming down stream, was the shrewdest move in the world - especially on a player you'd be unlikely to sell on for a similar or improved fee. I don't think we'll be seeing too many big signings this summer, at Palace or anywhere else in the First Division, and I think a minor exodus of popular players is sadly more a probability than a possibility.
However, Akinbiyi's injury (genuinely sad news in my book - he needed a good pre-season) may have an effect. It's looking as if we were going to be relying on him, and I'd hope that even Jordan isn't so impetuous that he wouldn't stagger some of these sales in order to maintain some chance of on the field success.
I also think the chances of Peter Taylor coming to Palace are slim - sounds like he's got a good agent though. ;)
What we really could do with though, is a manager who's used to working on a slim budget, making silk purses out of sows ears, and can generate a strong team spirit in adversity.
But then he's off to Brighton...

Very well put, sir. Take heed, one and all! This isn't about how rich Simon Jordan is, it's about running a football club as an efficient business. This has always resulted in unpopular decisions for a club such as ours. And nowadays, any club outside the Premier League is a selling club. Personally, I think Jordan has realised that sentiment has marred some of his decisions so far and he will not be thinking like a fan too much longer. The purchase of Akinbiyi was reckless and stupid in the current football climate and in our particular position at the time. Though, as Will S. points out, the extent of Akinbiyi's injury certainly may have prolonged Morrison or Freedman's time at Palace, as Jordan will now have to re-think things a little (unless he can pick up two or three forwards at fire-sale prices from clubs in worse trouble).

I think we're all resigned to Morrison leaving sooner rather than later. It's possible the stance with Dougie may be a little bit of posturing, or bluff calling, but I do believe he'll also be sold if Jordan can't get him to sign a contract extension for a knock-down price.

It's not all gloom and doom though. On the positive side, West Brom sold their prize asset and immediately got promotion. On the negative side, however, Trevor Francis is no Gary Megson!

SKATE
18-05-2002, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by Will S

... but it wouldn't surprise me if the ITV Digital situation has hit Palace harder than perhaps any of us previously suspected.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Pete B
19-05-2002, 12:27 AM
I have no doubts the ITV Digital situation has hit us hard but we have a 3m hole whereas Leicester, Derby and Ipswich for example have a 10m defecit and bigger wages bills.

Like I said before, every team in this division is going to be hit hard apart from Wolves maybe, and even if we do sell some prize assets, so will everybody else. So why the sudden doom and gloom forecasting relegation?

Perhaps this may force some of the promising youngsters through the ranks even quicker than expected, though no doubt they won't be given the time and patience needed by many of our fans.

And to those who make the point about Jordan not being able to keep funding the club's losses and ultimately he must balance the books, this is very true.However I only make the point that he is far from broke as people like James keep aluding to the fact that he is going to do a Goldberg. 2 years on and he's still with us and we still have a club - how long will it take for him to be in charge for the scaremongering to cease?

Jimbo ?
19-05-2002, 02:09 AM
couldnt adgree more - we are in a better position than nearly all the other league clubs!!!!

arussell
19-05-2002, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by James
I have never felt so gloomy about Palace's prospects.


:confused:

Well - at least since you last felt that way anyway !

I think that's probably about the third time I've seen you say that James in the last few years

I think all this conjecture first of all depends on how well Palace start the season.

Freedman doesn't want to go - and I believe Clinton wants to at least stay another year. I don't think either will be pushed off easily if they don't want to move.

Most of us are likely resigned to losing Clinton and Mullins at some point -and as long as Jordan sells FOR THE RIGHT FEE - then surely we'll all at least be happy in some small way happy.

Knowing Jordan - he will of course (as Palace have a history of doing) probably undersell the players.

I have also heard counter stories to suggest that players such as Gray, Black and Freedman are to be offered long contracts.

So who do you believe ?

Oh - and lastly of course - many clubs are now using the ITV excuse (as Bradford definitely have done) for the financial mess they're in - when in all honesty, it's down to bad houskeeping in the first place.

arussell
19-05-2002, 11:10 PM
Couple of other points ...

The printed Independant article amounted to only three lines - and did not mention anything about fees - it said Palace were preparing to sell star strikers Clinton Morrison and Dougie Freedman - the latter because they did not want to lose him on a Bosman.

Paper reports today are saying that Bruce is targetting Lee Hughes.

I'd have thought Clinton would more likely be a target for West Ham, if they sell Kanoute to Liverpool (possible player plus cash deal for Palace).

Clinton of course would be interested as it's let him stay in London, and also get to play premier league football (the two things that he'd want).

Officer Dibble
19-05-2002, 11:27 PM
This Freedman scare really is a red herring.
He wants to stay and is reported to have said that he's seeing the chairman soon to sort out a long contract.

The club, in good business practice, either need to tie up Freedman for 4-5 years NOW or seek to move him on now so that they realise a fee and don't lose out on a Bosman situation.

Lazy journalists scour through players contracts looking for players in their last 2 years of service and then make assumptions about clubs needing to sell. Makes an easy 3 liner in the Mail or Independent. No substance , no detail.

Exactly the same principle applies to those players (Gray, Black etc) with a year to go on existing contracts. Palace need to tie them up or sell now.

All this doesn't mean the club is skint or Jordan is broke......it just means we don't want a Sol Campbell situation on our hands.

There are other scenarios to James's. ;)

Dodger
20-05-2002, 12:00 AM
Aston Villa supposedly making a joint bid of 15million for Morrison and Mullins. As heard from a steward at Palace who is 'in the know'.

Sounds a bit high to me, but heh gives us something to talk about.

Geezer
20-05-2002, 12:05 AM
Sounds much too high.

Chester 76
20-05-2002, 12:06 AM
The Swedish striker Alpach? has been quoted as saying he is going to sign for Villa after the World cup. With Villa having signed Peter Crouch recently do they need another striker.

Jer
20-05-2002, 12:08 AM
That should help towards Freedman's new contract then! But 15m, and from Doug Ellis too :clown: :clown: :clown: You sure there wasn't any mention of Akinbiyi for that money?

Chris K
20-05-2002, 12:12 AM
If its true for that amount then I say bite their arm off! Imagine all the average standard division 1 players Ol' bunged up nose could buy for 15 million!

Geezer
20-05-2002, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Chester 76
With Villa having signed Peter Crouch recently do they need another striker.

Given the amount they paid for crouch the 15mill might be right.

Hallowed Turf Of Selhurst
20-05-2002, 12:18 AM
We could also buy a certain ground for that...

Lords Eagle
20-05-2002, 12:42 AM
James, have you ever read a positive article on Palace such as we are buying somebody? if so why do you never post that? I read today that we are looking to buy Phil Mulryne from Norwich, may or may not be true I don't know, but remember that the press do like to do Palace down , so could it be just another piece of scaremongering?

Chester 76
20-05-2002, 01:56 AM
Correction, Marcus Allback the Swedish international has signed for Aston Villa,he said he wasn`t worried by the competition from seven other strikers especially as Graham Taylor said he was going to sell two.Amongst Villa`s strikers are Vassell,Crouch,Angel & Allback all internationals at full or u-21 level.I can`t see them needing another striker.

pete eagle
20-05-2002, 02:11 AM
like Ellis would spend 15m on two players

selhurst
20-05-2002, 02:24 AM
Hhhmmm... sounds a bit far fetched.

Neckinger Eagle
20-05-2002, 02:24 AM
Like stewards are "in the know"?!

Random*
20-05-2002, 02:34 AM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... if that happens, I'll eat my own bum.

With the footy season over, a lack of friendlies, and the World Cup yet to kick off, I can safely say that we are in the silly rumour season.

Random*
20-05-2002, 02:36 AM
Oh, and before anyone asks... Branston Pickle.

Jimbo ?
20-05-2002, 02:37 AM
angel cost 10 and crouch (a good buy) 6.5
so you never know but i really cant see it

Jimbo ?
20-05-2002, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by Chester 76
competition from seven other strikers


and people say we dont need a 4th!!!????

arussell
20-05-2002, 04:01 AM
Unlikely to be true - but if we've really been offered 15 million, then bite Ellis' hand off !

Nobby
20-05-2002, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by Officer Dibble
This Freedman scare really is a red herring.
He wants to stay and is reported to have said that he's seeing the chairman soon to sort out a long contract.

The club, in good business practice, either need to tie up Freedman for 4-5 years NOW or seek to move him on now so that they realise a fee and don't lose out on a Bosman situation.

Lazy journalists scour through players contracts looking for players in their last 2 years of service and then make assumptions about clubs needing to sell. Makes an easy 3 liner in the Mail or Independent. No substance , no detail.

Exactly the same principle applies to those players (Gray, Black etc) with a year to go on existing contracts. Palace need to tie them up or sell now.

All this doesn't mean the club is skint or Jordan is broke......it just means we don't want a Sol Campbell situation on our hands.

There are other scenarios to James's. ;)

Agree with most of what you say, Officer, but this particular instance wasn't a case of lazy journalism. Palace are preparing to sell both Morrison and Freedman this Summer. Though, as has already been pointed out, Jordan might be forced to rethink now that Akinbiyi is out for longer than expected.

Ian Hart
20-05-2002, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by selhurst
Hhhmmm... sounds a bit far fetched.

So when did lack of logic, truth or accuracy disqualify a story being placed on the Transfer Hotline forum?

PeterH
20-05-2002, 04:31 AM
Ha Ha what a load of bollix.

Gazza2
20-05-2002, 01:13 PM
Remember that even if Villa paid 15m for the 2 of them, TF would only be given around 6m of this to spend.

Cleon
20-05-2002, 02:53 PM
Er...

a> Dougie Freedman is a Palace man. Simon Jordan is a Dougie fan. I think they will work something out. The only premiership club that might show an interest would be Birmingham, but I don't think Jordan will want to do business with them if he can possibly avoid it.

b> Doug Ellis would NEVER offer 15m for Morrison & Mullins.

James
20-05-2002, 08:03 PM
I understand that Jordan has already told Freedman that he will have to sell him. I imagine that Freedman isn't very happy with that.

Perhaps, as Nobby suggests, the forced absense of Akinbiyi will persuade Jordan to think again.

fieldy
20-05-2002, 09:37 PM
Does this club not want to keep it's supporters? To sell Morrison, although I'd rather he stayed, I can see why and if we get a decent fee for him and can re-invest on a replacement and a decent midfielder makes sense. To sell Dougie as well though is a complete outrage, why does Jordan "have to sell him" the bloke wants to sign a new contract for Christ's sake, it's hard enough for a club like ours to hang on to it's best players without selling the ones who don't want to leave. I suggest a mass demonstration, similar to the one at Lazio a few years back when Signori was going to be sold but fan pressure caused the club to do an about turn and keep him!:veryangry

King Tubby
20-05-2002, 09:42 PM
Bollox, don't believe for a second that we have to sell Freedman, bollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxbollox bollox bolloxBOLLOX.

If we did, then yeah, anything we could do to keep him, but I don't believe it for a second.

Streatham man
20-05-2002, 09:44 PM
I think there is more to this than meets the eye, and it has to do with TF. I ask again: did TF and Dougie have a falling out?

Is it possible TF has told SJ he can live without Dougie now he's got Akinbiyi (albeit injured)? Is it possible there were tense moments between TF and Dougie as the season unravelled after TF arrived?

All speculation on my part, but I suspect there are elements of truth to something related to the TF/Dougie relationship.

Daddy Long
20-05-2002, 09:52 PM
I was under the impression that Dougie was a favorite of TF's

King Tubby
20-05-2002, 09:53 PM
I would rather we got rid of Francis than Freedman.

King Tubby
20-05-2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
I was under the impression that Dougie was a favorite of TF's

yes, Francis thinks he's our best right winger.

James
20-05-2002, 10:14 PM
It's nothing to do with Francis.

If Freedman goes, it will be purely a financial decision (taking into account the cost of negotiating the sort of contract that Freedman would require, and also the fact that he would be on a Bosman next year). I am sure that Francis wants to keep him, and Freedman certainly wants to stay.

LLCOOLSTEVE
20-05-2002, 10:28 PM
I don't think its too much for a player to ask for an improved contract in negotiations after the season Dougie has given Palace.....plus of course the last few games of the previous season.

PeterH
20-05-2002, 10:44 PM
I second that.

James
20-05-2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
I don't think its too much for a player to ask for an improved contract in negotiations after the season Dougie has given Palace.....plus of course the last few games of the previous season.

Spot on. I don't blame Freedman one iota. I am sure that he isn't being greedy (and to be fair, I don't think anyone at the Club has accused him of greed). He is an exceptionally talented and hard working player, who deserves a fair income.

Have you had the chance to discuss this story with Freedman LLCOOLSTEVE? I note that you aren't pouring so much cold water on it now. I would love to know what Freedman thinks about the possibility of a swift departure.

Gooders
20-05-2002, 11:50 PM
Does Jordan still read these boards?

If so Simon, myself and my three boys have not renewed our season tickets yet.

Sell Dougie, and we won't.

End of.

AJ
20-05-2002, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Does Jordan still read these boards?

If so Simon, myself and my three boys have not renewed our season tickets yet.

Sell Dougie, and we won't.

End of.

What if, Palace can't afford Freedman and Morrison...who would you keep and who would you sell?

Stellavista
21-05-2002, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by AJ


What if, Palace can't afford Freedman and Morrison...who would you keep and who would you sell?



Fine, as far as it goes, AJ, but it's not a situation that needed to occur.
If we can't afford to keep hold of our two biggest assets, than why the hell did we spend over two million on a plank?

PeterH
21-05-2002, 03:30 AM
It cerainly inspires little confidence in next years prospects. Lets watch judas take Brum up and then sell two of our best three players. Blah blah blah at the next forum, thanks Mr Chairman we love you, we fully understand your explanation they had to go.

Ade and a youngster up front, brilliant.

But lets wait and see shall we.

LLCOOLSTEVE
21-05-2002, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by PeterH

But lets wait and see shall we.

Wait and see indeed, if the right offer comes in for Clinton.....ie a multi million pound deal that is stupid not to accept then there may be no need to sell anyone else, but saying that even that may not be enough to get by on.

Streatham man
21-05-2002, 04:35 AM
Originally posted by PeterH
It cerainly inspires little confidence in next years prospects. Lets watch judas take Brum up and then sell two of our best three players. Blah blah blah at the next forum, thanks Mr Chairman we love you, we fully understand your explanation they had to go.

Ade and a youngster up front, brilliant.

But lets wait and see shall we.

well said.

hughff
21-05-2002, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by PeterH
It cerainly inspires little confidence in next years prospects. Lets watch judas take Brum up and then sell two of our best three players. Blah blah blah at the next forum, thanks Mr Chairman we love you, we fully understand your explanation they had to go.

Ade and a youngster up front, brilliant.

But lets wait and see shall we.

Actually, let's try to help the club realise that Dougie is inexpendable and his sale a prelude to Div 2 football.

Even if Clint stays, which I think unlikely, losing Dougie is an absolute disaster. No transfer fee will compensate for the goals he makes or scores and, unlike Clint with his Prem ambitions, Dougie has no motivation to leave.

Les Butler
21-05-2002, 10:30 AM
....

James
21-05-2002, 10:31 AM
Les, that's brilliant. Thank God we can still laugh.

NRM the 2nd
21-05-2002, 12:19 PM
Thought I would add it to this thread as it regards the strikers, the Mirror this morning has said Ade Akinbiyi will be out for the first 6 weeks of the season as he requires another operation on his damaged knee ligaments. Do you think this will effect the possible sale of Morrison/Freedman??

Gazza2
21-05-2002, 12:59 PM
No. We will sell Clinton as we need the cash and will spend less than half of what we get for him on a replacement.

dannyturner
21-05-2002, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by James
Quite right - if he is sold, it will have nothing to do with Francis. My understanding is that Francis wants to keep him, and Freedman wants to stay.

I'm merging this with the 'Mass Clear Out' thread on the transfer forum.

James

Can we not merge this thread with the b#llsh#t thread on the b#llsh#t forum. I find threads like this upset me a bit.:sob:

Call me naive if you will, but I still think that Clinton and Dougie will be Palace players next season.

Cleon
21-05-2002, 01:39 PM
Although I think this is all fairly hysterical, and isn't going to happen, I do think Freedman ought to accept a new contract on similar terms to his old one. I doubt he is underpaid, and in the present climate I'd rather have a 5 year contract (which I would definitely offer him if I were Jordan) paying me slightly less per annum than a 1/2/3 year contract on slightly more money.

Beanie
21-05-2002, 03:14 PM
Doesn't seem to have been mentioned but in this weeks Croydon Guardian (any comments on reliability - I have no idea) it is reported that the club are in negotiations with Dougie, Julian Gray, Tommy Black and Steve Thomson about new contracts as they are all into their last year. All have apparently been made initial offers, and the club are expecting to get down to details when the management is back from Spain. The only player moving into his last year not being offered an extension is Dean Austin.

Georgie Boy
21-05-2002, 06:40 PM
Got to rush this one, busy at work.

Just to say if we sold Dougie and a few others, the price on each head won't justify what they mean to the club.

Dougie's goals, Tommy Black and Julian Gray's potential and Mullins (full stop) will be reluctant to go to another Div 1 club and perhaps it's a little soon for the younger players to go to Premiership clubs - they might choose to go for the crap Prem clubs but they will probably be back down in a years time anyway.

I guess I don't want to see OUR talented players wasted just because of our financial situation.

Sorry, I have no decent solutions.

Beanie
21-05-2002, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Georgie Boy
I guess I don't want to see OUR talented players wasted just because of our financial situation.



Before you panic, please remember that there is NO EVIDENCE of any need to sell anybody. It's just the slant put on facts (or in some cases lack of them) by one or two. There are, to be fair no hard facts in the other direction either, and short of being allowed to trawl through Simon Jordans personal portfolio, there never will be, but this "financial situation" seems to be developing an existance of it's own.

James
21-05-2002, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Beanie
Before you panic, please remember that there is NO EVIDENCE of any need to sell anybody. It's just the slant put on facts (or in some cases lack of them) by one or two. There are, to be fair no hard facts in the other direction either, and short of being allowed to trawl through Simon Jordans personal portfolio, there never will be, but this "financial situation" seems to be developing an existance of it's own.

Sorry mate, but there is more to it than that. I can tell you that Simon Jordan has told the Team that there is no money for any improved contracts and that everyone is for sale at the right price.

These are the 'hard facts' although you will have to decide whether or not to believe me.

James

LLCOOLSTEVE
21-05-2002, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by James


Sorry mate, but there is more to it than that. I can tell you that Simon Jordan has told the Team that there is no money for any improved contracts and that everyone is for sale at the right price.

These are the 'hard facts' although you will have to decide whether or not to believe me.

James

Its frustrating isnt it James???


Beanie, read what James has put and take it in, its the unfortunate truth.

RichardM
21-05-2002, 08:45 PM
Surely, when Jordan says that there is a price for every player he is not necessarily saying that he is going to sell them all. Isn't he just saying that he is running a business and in business everything has its price?

Having said this I think that Clinton probably will go to a Premier League club in the summer. Mullins may also do the same. The only other Premier quality players we have are Dougie (he has improved a hell of a lot since he last played in the Premier League) and Popovic and I am hopeful that we can at least hang on to them.

James
21-05-2002, 08:49 PM
Sorry to disappoint you again. Dougie doesn't want to go, but is resigned to it.

The only thing that may change this is the unfortunate injury to Akinbiyi. All we can do is wait and hope.

Justy C
21-05-2002, 09:00 PM
So Dougie doesn't want to go - would he sign a new contract on the same money or does Jordan just want to cash in on him now?

King Tubby
21-05-2002, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by James
Sorry to disappoint you again. Dougie doesn't want to go, but is resigned to it.

The only thing that may change this is the unfortunate injury to Akinbiyi. All we can do is wait and hope.

Don't mean to be rude to akinbiyi but that makes it a ******* fortunate injury if this is true.

wedgetail
21-05-2002, 09:08 PM
It is clear that there are at least 23 clubs in Division 1 with financial problems at the moment and Palace are one of them. There is a very real chance that some may not even make it to the end of the season.

Will S
21-05-2002, 09:17 PM
The thing that makes me curious is the notion that everyone is available for the right price. I have no reason to dispute this, in fact I'd endorse everything James has posted on the issue.
What alarms me though is the notion that selling Morrison for 5 Million, or even 8 Million isn't enough to stave off trouble, and that Freedman, Mullins, Gray, and anyone else worth half a bob may also have to be sold.
Back in Uncle Ron's day, usually following a relegation, Noades used to (in conjunction with his manager obviously ;)) isolate which player's needed to be sold to balance the books and which we needed to retain to keep a half decent team together. I'd hope and trust that Jordan and Francis will try and pull off a similar juggling act, because if everyone really is available, then we really do have a problem or too...

Nobby
21-05-2002, 09:42 PM
...or TWO.

Nobby
21-05-2002, 09:43 PM
...which are namely Trevor Francis and Simon Jordan. Haha.

eagle mart
21-05-2002, 09:49 PM
Morrison has sold his Shirley Pad (about two weeks ago) and is having his mail redirected to.....
.....wait for it..... oh, should I tell you?............ The footballing hotbed of ....... Caterham.

Will S
21-05-2002, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Nobby
...which are namely Trevor Francis and Simon Jordan. Haha.

Two true...

Streatham man
21-05-2002, 10:18 PM
Why oh why did we buy Ade for 2.4 million quid? We'll not get that for Dougie, and Dougie is 3x the player Ade is.

A mistake of historic proportions. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad call by both SJ and TF.

I wouldn't feel as crushed if we had spent the money on a quality midfielder, even though I hate the thought of losing Freedman under any circumstances.

will hung
21-05-2002, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Streatham man
Why oh why did we buy Ade for 2.4 million quid? We'll not get that for Dougie, and Dougie is 3x the player Ade is.

A mistake of historic proportions. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad call by both SJ and TF.

I wouldn't feel as crushed if we had spent the money on a quality midfielder, even though I hate the thought of losing Freedman under any circumstances.

it seems that jordan bought ade with the promised ITV Digital money, gambling that we'd get into the premiershit. the gamble backfired and now the club has to sell in a falling market. Losing dougie and/or clint will be a blow but the way football finances are now it seems inevitable and we may as well get used ti it

PeterH
21-05-2002, 11:12 PM
We must be 25m in debt, accrued in just two years, + 12m to buy the ground and a further 8m to develop it. Its all over, give it up, legalise euthanasia.

I cannot see a future unless SJ goes and then it will be perfect and the exaggerated problems will disappear.

Big Bird
21-05-2002, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Justy C
So Dougie doesn't want to go - would he sign a new contract on the same money or does Jordan just want to cash in on him now? :(

:( I think you have just answered your own question of course Jordon wants to cash in on him so that he can pay the wages of higher paid players than Dougie :hmph: What would you do if you were poor Dougie who loves the club and does not want to leave but is being used as a get out of Debt card by the chairman:veryangry

Gooders
21-05-2002, 11:38 PM
I'm serious about what I said.

I don't buy a Palace season ticket in the expectation of walking the league and then taking on the big boys and beating them (there was a time when that dream was almost valid, but not anymore) but I do expect some form of entertainment.

I accept that clubs are in trouble financially and have to balance the books and that this will mean selling some of the more marketable players.

However, I doubt that Dougie is anywhere near our biggest earner; he won't pull in much of a fee, if any; he doesn't want to leave; he is our most entertaining and skillful player by absolutely miles.

I would rather see Hopkin, Rubins, Morrison, Mullins, Popovic or Aki go before the Doog.

I've supported Akinbiyi but if we spent 2.5 million on him only to let Dougie go for a song a few months later then I'm sorry, but it just isn't worth bothering anymore.

And I shan't.

Golf on Saturday's, Anti?

AJ
21-05-2002, 11:54 PM
It's okay saying these players can go. But, who is going to buy them?
With the current financial problems in the FL, I doubt many clubs will be spending money this summer. And to be honest, how many Premiership clubs really want that many of the Palace first team?

will hung
21-05-2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by AJ
It's okay saying these players can go. But, who is going to buy them?
With the current financial problems in the FL, I doubt many clubs will be spending money this summer. And to be honest, how many Premiership clubs really want that many of the Palace first team?

i agree entirely, possibly only clint and dougie would interest a premiershit club

James
22-05-2002, 12:01 AM
If I were Freedman, I would start looking for a more appreciative employer.

As a fan, and a Season Ticket holder, I badly want him to stay. What hope then do we have?

First - as AJ suggests, there may be few buyers around. The crisis which has hit the Football League may be much more serious than any of us had realised at first. Secondly - there are other players on the List who could bring in far more (and whom we would miss far less). If, say, Morrison went for the higher end of valuations, then perhaps Jordan might think again. Finally, the long(ish) term injury to Akinbiyi must surely affect the decision.

Well, it's something to hang on to, isn't it?

Streatham man
22-05-2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by will hung


it seems that jordan bought ade with the promised ITV Digital money, gambling that we'd get into the premiershit. the gamble backfired and now the club has to sell in a falling market. Losing dougie and/or clint will be a blow but the way football finances are now it seems inevitable and we may as well get used ti it

Buying Ade was a huge mistake at the time, and is even more pronounced given the ITV situation.

Martin H
22-05-2002, 02:16 AM
Not looking to start a row James, but why do you only seem to be happy when there is a problem? When nothing is wrong on the surface you constantly pick away at people at the club. Now there appears to be a national problem and Palace are impacted too, you seem to have a new energy. Is this a solicitor thing?

Rhetorical.

I am sure you love Palace as much as I do, but you can be damn depressing sometimes. But we love you . . . . . ..

22-05-2002, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by Streatham man
Why oh why did we buy Ade for 2.4 million quid? We'll not get that for Dougie, and Dougie is 3x the player Ade is.

A mistake of historic proportions. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad call by both SJ and TF.

I wouldn't feel as crushed if we had spent the money on a quality midfielder, even though I hate the thought of losing Freedman under any circumstances.

Put another record on sunshine and do us all a favour!

pete eagle
22-05-2002, 03:25 AM
I'm sorry but if Dougie does really want to stay then he will sign the new contract, it is highly unlikely that anyone will be able to afford to pay him more money (apart from Premiership, but i can't see interest there) and if he signs a new contract then in a couple of years time if the cash situation with ITV Digital is solved then he can renegotiate with Jordan.

Personally I feel David Hopkin should be first out of the door, get rid of him for anything, i don't care if it is a free. He is a big earner and does not contribute much to the team and therefore is taking up space in the wages which could be used for people like Dougie in renegotiating contracts.

Streatham man
22-05-2002, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by freddykurz


Put another record on sunshine and do us all a favour!

Sorry, freddy -- I forgot that you hold the moniker of TF apologist bar none!

Justy C
22-05-2002, 05:24 AM
Very easy for me to say as I'm not paying the wages but, if the ITV Digital crisis is as bad as we are being led to believe, Jordan needs to hold his nerve for 1 more season. It seems that there will be more than a few 1st division sides suffering next season - if Jordan can hold on to the current squad for 1 more season then maybe, just maybe, we might be in for a pleasant surprise next season if so many other sides are in trouble. Then Jordan can start enjoying the Premier League money and start recouping his outlay.

Justin
22-05-2002, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by James
I have never felt so gloomy about Palace's prospects.

Please feel free to plough in and try to convince me (and everyone else) that this is disloyal scaremongering, motivated by my irrational dislike of Simon Jordan. Believe me, if I am wrong, I will be very happy to have this post shoved into my face in a few months time.

Apologies if i am repeating anyone else but have only read the first post! This is typical a James topic - use a rumour and from it conclude that Palace are in serious financial trouble. If Dougie does leave then it gives the opportunity for him to quote his post of a few months back and again conclude that we are in financial trouble; when in reality there does not have to be any connection between the two events. When our beloved Uncle Ron was at the club I seem to remember us constantly selling players on the cheap but that did not mean we were insolvent. These days it is even more likely due to the Bosman ruling.

As for being prepared to admit to being wrong in a few months time I apologise for being a cynic! Has James not started almost identical threads before, for example when Palace received the season ticket money early last year and when they borrowed money from a finance house. We seem to still have a football club that finished higher in the league than for several years despite James' predictions of imminent bankruptcy.

22-05-2002, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Streatham man


Sorry, freddy -- I forgot that you hold the moniker of TF apologist bar none!

Wrong again! I voted for Graham in the Fans' and Club polls(for all his faults) and would have preferred Joe Kinnear after Bruce left - sadly he was already at Luton. But as someone who believes the Club needs a period of financial and playing stability, so have been prepared to give critical support to both the Chairman and the new manager and his staff to try to achieve those worthwhile goals, instead of creating the mood of demoralisation, panic and despair among Palace fans, which is what you and a few others on this Board appear to be intent on doing on a daily basis. It is a question of facing reality. All the insults hurled against, Ade, Francis and Jordan etc.etc.won't change the situation at Selhurst Park for the better by one iota, and will probably make things much worse. Get behind the Club and try and think positive thoughts!

Daddy Long
22-05-2002, 01:34 PM
Dougie is going nowhere. How do I know? Because LLCOOLSTEVE said so and he has never been wrong about Dougie. So chill peeps. Rack up da reefa innit:afro:

arussell
22-05-2002, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by James
The only thing that may change this is the unfortunate injury to Akinbiyi.


And how well the season starts for the club, and what sort of new TV deal gets sorted out, if any.

If all you say is true James - then Jordan is either a bigger idiot than even he realised (after not saying anything like this at the fans forum when asked if players like Morrison would be sold) - or things have only just begun to dawn on him.

What is the "supposed" figure of cash that we are suddenly short of ? - surely if Morrison were sold (for 8 million) and Gray (for 2) then that would cover most if not everything that we are short of ?

How come other clubs like Millwall don't seem to be chucking all their players away ?

King Tubby
22-05-2002, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
Dougie is going nowhere. How do I know? Because LLCOOLSTEVE said so and he has never been wrong about Dougie. So chill peeps. Rack up da reefa innit:afro:
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE


Its frustrating isnt it James???


Beanie, read what James has put and take it in, its the unfortunate truth.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

f*ck this, I'm just putting my head in the sand and pulling it out on the first day of the season hoping Dougie's there.

wedgetail
22-05-2002, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by arussell


How come other clubs like Millwall don't seem to be chucking all their players away ?

Millwall have a much small wage bill

Streatham man
22-05-2002, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by freddykurz


It is a question of facing reality.

And the reality is that TF is a dour, miserable manager with poor judgment who could really do lasting damage to our beloved CPFC!

I think there comes a point where your notion of "thinking positive thoughts" is more akin to "be comfortable living in fairyland, ignore reality, and prolong the damage that's being done to our club!"

Daddy Long
22-05-2002, 04:22 PM
Chill your boots King Tubby :)

Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE


The thing is, Dougie just does not want to leave.........he want's to see out the rest of his career at the club,and if under contract he can't be forced to leave.........he is happy, just bought a new house in area and has a new born baby aswell. SJ has offered him a new contract, and he want's to sign.

James
22-05-2002, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
Dougie is going nowhere. How do I know? Because LLCOOLSTEVE said so and he has never been wrong about Dougie. So chill peeps. Rack up da reefa innit:afro:

I think you will find that LLCOOLSTEVE has changed his views. Sorry. You may not have seen a more recent post:

Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE


Its frustrating isnt it James???


Beanie, read what James has put and take it in, its the unfortunate truth.

LLCOOLSTEVE knows Freedman quite well.

James
22-05-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Justin


Apologies if i am repeating anyone else but have only read the first post! This is typical a James topic - use a rumour and from it conclude that Palace are in serious financial trouble.

Sadly this is not a rumour. It is solid fact. Read the rest of the thread, and then post again.

... and when have I concluded that Palace are in serious financial trouble? I am simply making the point that Freedman has been told by the Chairman that he (and others) may have to be sold. As many have already suggested on this thread, that many be interpreted as good economic management. If you take the view that it indicates 'serious financial trouble' then that is up to you.

I am almost certain that Jordan is financially sound, and from the latest set of accounts the Club looks as if it is in better shape than many (although that does not mean that it looks very healthy). The only real question is the extent to which Jordan is prepared to continue to support our Club financially.

Daddy Long
22-05-2002, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by James


I think you will find that LLCOOLSTEVE has changed his views. Sorry.

OK I've just read the whole thread.

What he actually says is that every player has a price - OK
And that SJ won't be offering improved contracts - OK

So does this mean that SJ has withdrawn the previous offer to Dougie? Can anyone confirm this? If not then I see no reason to worry unduly. Every player ever at Palace has always had a price. We all know this. So what's the difference - that the chairman has actually come out and admit it? Scarey stuff.........

And its financially prudent not to offer improved contracts whilst the TV rights are up in the air. No really, I'm cacking it now.........

Lee B
22-05-2002, 05:18 PM
I think that the comment about the TV money could be the most perceptive. Nothing will be sorted with regards to new contracts until the ITV Digital mess is sorted.

I really don't think that the comments regarding the signing of Ade are very fair on SJ. No-one saw ITV digital going bust, as the perilous state of a lot of other clubs in the division proves.

Players may have to be sold - FACT.
Our most salebale assets are the front two - FACT.

As fans we are going to look for scapegoats and TF and SJ are the easiest people to attack, but I think that a lot of the mardy crew on these boards are shooting first and asking questions later. Let's get to the start of the season and see what we've actually got.

Oh yeah, and a Premiership club wanting Mullins? Do me a favour.

James
22-05-2002, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long


OK I've just read the whole thread.

What he actually says is that every player has a price - OK
And that SJ won't be offering improved contracts - OK


That is, I suppose, one possible interpretation.

It is clear that Freedman is settled in the South and wants to stay at Palace. It is also a fact that he has been told, essentially, that there is no money for any improved contract, and that he will be sold if the right offer comes in. I understand that Dougie isn't particularly happy about this. He had expected to be offered a new contract as a valued member of the squad.

I appreciate that you don't want to consider the possibility that things at the Club may not be as wonderful as you would like. You also no doubt want to believe that Jordan's decisions are for the benefit of the Club (which they might well be, in the long run). However, looking at it from the point of view of Freedman - how would you feel if you were facing the possibility of an unwanted transfer because the Club is unwilling to pay you the same as Akinbiyi (or even something approaching that)? Add this to the fact that several millions were spent in bringing Akinbiyi to the Club in the first place (which might have been used to keep Freedman and possibly Morrison and Mullins).

eagle mart
22-05-2002, 05:40 PM
This is a disgrace and nothing more, so whats all this bullshit about 'We'll definately get our money from ITV Digital' etc? Dougis goal was worth 2m itself and he won't be around to perform miracles next season. LLCOOLSTEVE, tell the Dougie the fans are as gutted as he is....

With Trevor Francis in charge we are already a mid-table side, without Morrison and Freedman we are relegation candidates. How about we terminate Akinbiyis contract and take Leicester to the Department of Fair Trading with the defence that we paid 2.4m for a professional footballer and ended up with a lumbering fool....?

Daddy Long
22-05-2002, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by James


I appreciate that you don't want to consider the possibility that things at the Club may not be as wonderful as you would like. You also no doubt want to believe that Jordan's decisions are for the benefit of the Club (which they might well be, in the long run).

That is, I suppose, one possible interpretation.

Daddy Long
22-05-2002, 05:50 PM
Bringing Akinbiyi into the equation isn't fair. We all know that Ade was signed before all this ITV rubbish kicked off. SJ was no doubt intending to reward Dougie with a better contract at the end of this season. How Dougie feels now when he looks at what Ade is earning is a not really the point, although sad for Dougie.

Beanie
22-05-2002, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by James


That is, I suppose, one possible interpretation.

It is clear that Freedman is settled in the South and wants to stay at Palace. It is also a fact that he has been told, essentially, that there is no money for any improved contract, and that he will be sold if the right offer comes in. I understand that Dougie isn't particularly happy about this. He had expected to be offered a new contract as a valued member of the squad.

I appreciate that you don't want to consider the possibility that things at the Club may not be as wonderful as you would like. You also no doubt want to believe that Jordan's decisions are for the benefit of the Club (which they might well be, in the long run). However, looking at it from the point of view of Freedman - how would you feel if you were facing the possibility of an unwanted transfer because the Club is unwilling to pay you the same as Akinbiyi (or even something approaching that)? Add this to the fact that several millions were spent in bringing Akinbiyi to the Club in the first place (which might have been used to keep Freedman and possibly Morrison and Mullins).

James,

It all comes down to interpretation. I'm not disputing what has been said - but they are open to other interpretations. All of your views are reasonable and possible, but seeing other possibilities is not a question of blind faith - it's the old question "Is the glass half full or half empty?" I'd go for half full everytime!

As for Dougie, I feel for him, and I know how he feels. I work for an airline - on Sept 10th my job was up for re-grading by the end of the month and a nice pay rise which I felt (indeed feel) I deserved was probable. On Sept 12th I wasn't sure I'd even have a job. Well, I've still got a job (others haven't) but I'm not heading for a pay rise any time soon. Two people in my office got their re-grading from 1st September, lucky them - I missed out. Do I stay here while these people earn more or do I move? Personally, I'm staying. I have enough money (sure I'd like more, but I'm fortunate to have enough), I'm doing a job I like in a place I like. I genuinely believe the rise will come. Same for Dougie - pre ITV digital he was probably on for a rise, now he's not. It's not Jordan's fault, and it would be folly for him to act as if the television money was certain to still be there. It's not Ade's fault that he got his contract just in time. It's down to Dougie (indeed all the players looking for new deals - not just him) to decide whether they want to stay with no rise or move. I'd like to see Jordan offer the four players a years extension on the same terms. In a year (may be less) we will know the result of the ITV Digital case - if the League is right the money will have arrived and a better deal can be offered, if the League are wrong and there is no money then the whole picture will have changed.

We'll just have to wait and see, and hope for the best.

Will S
22-05-2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by James


I am almost certain that Jordan is financially sound, and from the latest set of accounts the Club looks as if it is in better shape than many (although that does not mean that it looks very healthy). The only real question is the extent to which Jordan is prepared to continue to support our Club financially.

This is key. Why after 11 pages on this thread is there still an assumption that Jordan's personal finances and CPFC's finances are the same thing ?

(Excuse the tone, it's posted by a bloke who can't actually tell the difference between 'two' and 'too'....:o )

Reps AJ
22-05-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by James


I appreciate that you don't want to consider the possibility that things at the Club may not be as wonderful as you would like.

The situation that practically every Nationwide League club is not as wonderful as the fans would like.

James
22-05-2002, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Reps AJ


The situation that practically every Nationwide League club is not as wonderful as the fans would like.

Very true.

It doesn't mean however that we should be blind to the potential problems facing our Club.

firesign
22-05-2002, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by James


Sorry mate, but there is more to it than that. I can tell you that Simon Jordan has told the Team that there is no money for any improved contracts and that everyone is for sale at the right price.

These are the 'hard facts' although you will have to decide whether or not to believe me.

James

I reckon 90% of Nationwide League and 50% of Premiership clubs are in the same boat.

James
22-05-2002, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Beanie
As for Dougie, I feel for him, and I know how he feels. I work for an airline - on Sept 10th my job was up for re-grading by the end of the month and a nice pay rise which I felt (indeed feel) I deserved was probable. On Sept 12th I wasn't sure I'd even have a job. Well, I've still got a job (others haven't) but I'm not heading for a pay rise any time soon. Two people in my office got their re-grading from 1st September, lucky them - I missed out. Do I stay here while these people earn more or do I move? Personally, I'm staying. I have enough money (sure I'd like more, but I'm fortunate to have enough), I'm doing a job I like in a place I like. I genuinely believe the rise will come. Same for Dougie - pre ITV digital he was probably on for a rise, now he's not.

A very good post, if I may say so - and you make a powerful point with the comparison between your position and Freedman's.

There are however a few differences.

First of all Freedman is a talented athlete, with a very limited shelf life. Hopefully you will be able to continue to provide for your family for many years to come. At 35, most professional footballers are on the scrap heap. Nobody could blame Freedman for being anxious to make as much hay as he can, while the sun is shining.

Secondly, 911 was a shock to everyone (except the President of the USA by recent accounts). Certainly your employers had no way of anticipating the devastating affect on airlines. The collapse of ITV Digital only came as a shock to those with their heads stuck very firmly into the ground. Do you want me to find the post I made in December last year, suggesting that the ITV money might be at risk?

Anyone who spends money which they expect to receive, before it comes in, is a fool. If Jordan really did buy Akinbiyi in anticipation of the ITV cash influx, then this simply confirms what I have always thought of the man. Unfortunately it won't be Jordan who suffers the most from this - it will be decent guys like Freedman and the long suffering fans.

gator
22-05-2002, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by firesign


I reckon 90% of Nationwide League and 50% of Premiership clubs are in the same boat.
Sunderland have transfer listed 8 players.

gator
22-05-2002, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by James

Anyone who spends money which they expect to receive, before it comes in, is a fool. If Jordan really did buy Akinbiyi in anticipation of the ITV cash influx, then this simply confirms what I have always thought of the man. Unfortunately it won't be Jordan who suffers the most from this - it will be decent guys like Freedman and the long suffering fans.
James, have you ever had a home mortage or auto loan??
I beleive most of us have spent money we expect to receive.

Makes the world go round;)

wedgetail
22-05-2002, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by James


.

First of all Freedman is a talented athlete, with a very limited shelf life. .

This is true, however it is also true that the salaries for talented footballers are ruthlessly dependant on market forces and the demand side of this market has just collapsed. Unless a Premier league club comes in for Freedman he will have trouble demanding the kind of sallary he could have expected a few months ago.

Celestial Empire
22-05-2002, 07:45 PM
The conclusion that I would draw from all this, isn't that SJ or the club have a desperate need to cover a financial hole by selling players.

More likely, it's that SJ has seen like everyone else, that the league is in crisis. He's said several times that the power is swinging away from the players and back to the clubs.
With these ideas, he will not offer more money in a falling (players wages) market. He may think all players are negotiable, especially the dissatisfied or Bolshy ones. Since he thinks wages will fall and loads of players come available on frees or low fees, he and TF may be gearing up for a big trading session.

After some frantic, late, closed-season activity, CPFC will end up with a modified set of players on a lower wage bill. TF is obviously not satisfied with the current group, and SJ trusts his judgement (especially if the final bill will be cash in).
You (and I) may NOT trust TF to pull this off, and feel that we could end up with a squad of solid Div I players, stripped of all class and inspiration.
Almost certainly both TF & SJ know the team value of our better players and would like to keep them (on lower wages), so there must be an element of bluff in some cases. Players like Hopkin have just become unsaleable so there ain't no easy solutions.

I would say that if Morrison, Doug, even Mullins were sold, and we bought in 8 or 9 bright young talents from the lower divisions on low wages, to complement our own new young talents, giving us something to look forward to in 2-3 years time, it could be bearable ..... but an assembly of mid / late career journeymen is more likely.

This game plan is more likely to be pulled off by other clubs (Millwall ?)

Nobby
22-05-2002, 07:46 PM
Of course you can blame Jordan for buying Akinbiyi. Forget about the ITV situation, it was a rash and stupid purchase whatever the club's or Jordan's finances were.

Daddy Long
22-05-2002, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Nobby
Of course you can blame Jordan for buying Akinbiyi. Forget about the ITV situation, it was a rash and stupid purchase whatever the club's or Jordan's finances were.

based on what? His exploits at Leicester? Or perhaps playing in a Palace team devoid of inspiration? But certainly not on his career goal scoring record.

wedgetail
22-05-2002, 08:11 PM
Does anyone have a list of when the contracts of the current squad end?

It seems to be:
Gray 02/03
Black 02/03
Freedman 02/03
Austin 02/03

Beanie
22-05-2002, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by wedgetail
Does anyone have a list of when the contracts of the current squad end?

It seems to be:
Gray 02/03
Black 02/03
Freedman 02/03
Austin 02/03

You can add Steve Thomson to that list, and according to local press they are all the significant players whose contracts are up end of next season. Beyond that can't help.

LLCOOLSTEVE
22-05-2002, 09:21 PM
I think its best to just wait and see really, there's no point speculating endlessley because nobody other than SJ knows what the 'truth' is.

As far as Dougie goes he is a Palace player, he wants to remain a Palace player and until he is told otherwise he is here to stay. He is NOT going to look for another club, but cannot stop the endless rumour's about his future given the current financial situation of the club.

Streatham man
22-05-2002, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Nobby
Of course you can blame Jordan for buying Akinbiyi. Forget about the ITV situation, it was a rash and stupid purchase whatever the club's or Jordan's finances were.

And TF -- he clearly wanted him and has for years!

Streatham man
22-05-2002, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
After some frantic, late, closed-season activity, CPFC will end up with a modified set of players on a lower wage bill. TF is obviously not satisfied with the current group, and SJ trusts his judgement (especially if the final bill will be cash in).
You (and I) may NOT trust TF to pull this off, and feel that we could end up with a squad of solid Div I players, stripped of all class and inspiration.
Almost certainly both TF & SJ know the team value of our better players and would like to keep them (on lower wages), so there must be an element of bluff in some cases. Players like Hopkin have just become unsaleable so there ain't no easy solutions.

I would say that if Morrison, Doug, even Mullins were sold, and we bought in 8 or 9 bright young talents from the lower divisions on low wages, to complement our own new young talents, giving us something to look forward to in 2-3 years time, it could be bearable ..... but an assembly of mid / late career journeymen is more likely.

This game plan is more likely to be pulled off by other clubs (Millwall ?) [/B]

Excellent post.

22-05-2002, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Streatham man


And the reality is that TF is a dour, miserable manager with poor judgment who could really do lasting damage to our beloved CPFC!

I think there comes a point where your notion of "thinking positive thoughts" is more akin to "be comfortable living in fairyland, ignore reality, and prolong the damage that's being done to our club!"

All totally subjective opinion, Streatham man, based on your very own highly personalised view of someone you have turned into a satan-figure responsible for all the ills of CPFC! Your problem and that of several others who think like you on this thread is that however much criticism you hurl at TF, the Chairman will continue to back him until he is convinced that he cannot advance the cause of Crystal Palace F.C. It is interesting that you should believe that "dour, miserable" managers are necessarily likely to be unsuccessful. Neither Ferguson or Graham were rays of sunshine, but it didn't stop them producing Double-winning football teams. Your assertion that Francis has "poor judgement" must be set against his above-average record as manager of Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham City. From day one you have never been prepared to give Francis a chance to prove himself, and it is obvious that you never will. Despite all your protestations that you have the interests of our Club at heart. I believe such blind prejudice can only destroy everything we, the fans have built over the last 97 years.

Pete B
23-05-2002, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
The conclusion that I would draw from all this, isn't that SJ or the club have a desperate need to cover a financial hole by selling players.

More likely, it's that SJ has seen like everyone else, that the league is in crisis. He's said several times that the power is swinging away from the players and back to the clubs.
With these ideas, he will not offer more money in a falling (players wages) market. He may think all players are negotiable, especially the dissatisfied or Bolshy ones. Since he thinks wages will fall and loads of players come available on frees or low fees, he and TF may be gearing up for a big trading session.

After some frantic, late, closed-season activity, CPFC will end up with a modified set of players on a lower wage bill. TF is obviously not satisfied with the current group, and SJ trusts his judgement (especially if the final bill will be cash in).
You (and I) may NOT trust TF to pull this off, and feel that we could end up with a squad of solid Div I players, stripped of all class and inspiration.
Almost certainly both TF & SJ know the team value of our better players and would like to keep them (on lower wages), so there must be an element of bluff in some cases. Players like Hopkin have just become unsaleable so there ain't no easy solutions.

I would say that if Morrison, Doug, even Mullins were sold, and we bought in 8 or 9 bright young talents from the lower divisions on low wages, to complement our own new young talents, giving us something to look forward to in 2-3 years time, it could be bearable ..... but an assembly of mid / late career journeymen is more likely.

This game plan is more likely to be pulled off by other clubs (Millwall ?)

My views entirely - why should Jordan be the only chairman outside the Premiership offering improved terms to any of his squad irrespective of their talents. The balance of power has swung back to the clubs - look at Bradford they've gone into administration to try and re-negotiate their wages bill and offload the likes of Carbone. I want Dougie to stay and whilst he deserves an improved contract, I'm afraid for his sake the market has changed. I can't see any club offering him first team football and an improved contract.

I hope however that your final conclusion is wrong and that TF is brave enough to seek out the younger talent and gel it with our home grown players. Whether the majority of fans will wait 2-3 years for them to develop is another matter.

brighton_eagle
23-05-2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Reps AJ


The situation that practically every Nationwide League club is not as wonderful as the fans would like.

Exactly. So I'll ask the question again that I asked some pages ago, and that a few have asked in between. Who is going to buy these players??

Seems to me SJ might be using this as a stick in contract negotiations. As has been pointed out, the market is turning in relation to players wages. I don't think this is restricted to Nationwide League clubs either. Leeds have transfer listed Bowyer, apparently because he wasn't happy with the new contract he was offered and wouldn't sign. This sort of thing will be happening with more and more regularity in the coming couple of years. Don't forget that the Sky deal is up in two years (I think??), and theres no way that they will pay anywhere near the same amount again.

This situation has been coming for a while now. It was only a matter of time before the wage issue came to the fore, and capping will probably be unnecessary, because the market will find it's own balance.

Lastly, I don't really see how we can be in as perilious situation as most other clubs. We streamlined a couple of years ago, because our day of reckoning came a little earlier than many others, and were left with some lower paid older players and a bunch of kids (who did us proud). Since then, we have increased the size of the squad, and kept wages pretty well under control. Of course its a fact that in the vast majority of cases (99%) a football club is not run as a profitable business, and that many clubs rely on benevolent individuals who are willing to spend their own money.

Lets just wait and see. No-one has been sold yet, and however good the sources of this information are, I for one will wait and see how this all pans out.

brighton_eagle
23-05-2002, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Pete B
Whether the majority of fans will wait 2-3 years for them to develop is another matter.

Huh.....no chance I would say. :rolleyes:

Crunchie
23-05-2002, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by freddykurz


All totally subjective opinion, Streatham man, based on your very own highly personalised view of someone you have turned into a satan-figure responsible for all the ills of CPFC

And your blind view of Francis, who you have turned into a saint, despite the continual evidence that our team, style of play, team morale, and points to game ratio has been on the decline since he joined the club.

You may not want to change the record, but neither will I or Streatham.
Its just a shame you cannot read between the lines as well as the evidence that has also been shown to change your view.

But thats what the BBs is all about.

Back to the subject.

I agree that SJ is using the changing climate to negotiate new contracts.

The current situation reminds me of when the last time the property market peaked, and the clever ones sold at the right time.

However I really do hope that this isn't at the expense of Doogie (who i really hopes resigns), as he is one of the few creative sparks in the side the TF seems willing to play, even if they don't get on.

Gooders
23-05-2002, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by Celestial Empire


You (and I) may NOT trust TF to pull this off, and feel that we could end up with a squad of solid Div I players, stripped of all class and inspiration...an assembly of mid / late career journeymen is more likely.


And there you have it Celestial.

I do not want to watch Birmingham thank you and what you've said there is just about a perfect description of them under Francis (and now, dare I say it).

If you had two strikers, one of whom was twice as good as the other at least but earned the smaller wage, which one would you work to retain and which one would you try to sell?

Yeah me too.

If you're such a wicked businessman SJ, sort it out and do what's best for the club instead of whingeing about what a hard cruel world it is in the prevailing conditions. You're the Chairman - you're supposed to be able to wheel and deal.

Who would buy Freedman? How about Brum and WBA for starters. And it would really stick in my craw to see him plying his trade with either of them.

:(

brighton_eagle
23-05-2002, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
Originally posted by Celestial Empire

And there you have it Celestial.

I do not want to watch Birmingham thank you and what you've said there is just about a perfect description of them under Francis (and now, dare I say it).
:(

Yes, but they ARE in the Premiership next season. And thats a f.a.c.t!!

:D

pete eagle
23-05-2002, 02:36 AM
Jordan may even choose to wait a few months and see how the ITV digital lawsuit plays out, it's not like their contracts expire tomorrow. He has time to wait and see

hughff
23-05-2002, 02:41 AM
Because five players have contracts expiring at the end of the season, they are the most expendable. All could leave on a Bosman, so unless they sign new contracts, they could be cashed in on. In the case of Dougie this would be possibly the biggest balls-up of the last decade (and we've had a few) and in the case of Julian (especially), Tommy and maybe Steve also ill advised.

The Ade transfer remains a serious problem given that Stern John was available at the same time for 100k. The club has wasted a large amount of money (2.1M) that could have been used to retain the expirees.

Sadly, other players who might be more desirable to lose because they don't produce as well on the pitch, also have long term contracts which makes them impossible to sell. They simply won't agree to go to another club for less money and no-one can give them more.

To return to the point I made in my first post: without Clint and Dougie, we are headed for relegation, simply because I can't believe that Ade and the youngsters we have will score anywhere near enough goals to keep us safe. Not retaining Dougie will cost the club more over the course of the next year, in the standings and in the balance sheet, than he will realise in a sale. DON'T DO IT, SJ.

Does anyone remeber the promise of Prem football in SJ's 5 year plan? It can't be done if we don't score.

Neckinger Eagle
23-05-2002, 03:47 AM
Sorry, just a pedantic point which may even be wrong. I think I read soomewhere that when the Premiership TV deal is renewed, if Sky rebid they are contracted to bid at least what they are paying now.

23-05-2002, 01:08 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Crunchie
[B]

And your blind view of Francis, who you have turned into a saint, despite the continual evidence that our team, style of play, team morale, and points to game ratio has been on the decline since he joined the club.

Nowhere will you find any evidence of me canonising TF or anyone else at the Club, but I've tried to be objective and unprejudiced in judging those involved in working for the success of CPFC. One-sided, prejudiced, criticism of the kind you and Streatham all-too-frequently indulge in is unlikely to advance the cause of enlightenment or the progress of our Football team one iota I'm sorry to say!.

brighton_eagle
23-05-2002, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Neckinger Eagle
Sorry, just a pedantic point which may even be wrong. I think I read soomewhere that when the Premiership TV deal is renewed, if Sky rebid they are contracted to bid at least what they are paying now.

I don't know whether or not that is true, but I can't see them, or anyone else, paying the same amount or anywhere near it. They don't need to. And lets face it, if SKY are the only players who can afford it, they can call the shots.

Justin
23-05-2002, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by James


Sadly this is not a rumour. It is solid fact. Read the rest of the thread, and then post again.

... and when have I concluded that Palace are in serious financial trouble? I am simply making the point that Freedman has been told by the Chairman that he (and others) may have to be sold. As many have already suggested on this thread, that many be interpreted as good economic management. If you take the view that it indicates 'serious financial trouble' then that is up to you.

I am almost certain that Jordan is financially sound, and from the latest set of accounts the Club looks as if it is in better shape than many (although that does not mean that it looks very healthy). The only real question is the extent to which Jordan is prepared to continue to support our Club financially.

Sorry to be pedantic but in my post I accepted the fact that Dougie might leave and was just pointing out that this did not have to mean that the end was nigh. Agreed you did not use the exact words serious financial trouble but you have often alluded to this and have even told people that you have not bought a five year season ticket because you fear you will lose your money as it is not held in an escrow facility. Furthermore in your first post you said you have never felt so gloomy about Palace's prospects. Again as i said in my first post before your patronising reply, it is a typical James topic. Take a rumour (because it can not be a fact because he has not left) and from it come to a conclusion that supports you long held biased view. There are a number of conclusions that could be drawn from a sale of a player, not just your one.

James
23-05-2002, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Justin


Sorry to be pedantic but in my post I accepted the fact that Dougie might leave and was just pointing out that this did not have to mean that the end was nigh. Agreed you did not use the exact words serious financial trouble but you have often alluded to this and have even told people that you have not bought a five year season ticket because you fear you will lose your money as it is not held in an escrow facility. Furthermore in your first post you said you have never felt so gloomy about Palace's prospects. Again as i said in my first post before your patronising reply, it is a typical James topic. Take a rumour (because it can not be a fact because he has not left) and from it come to a conclusion that supports you long held biased view. There are a number of conclusions that could be drawn from a sale of a player, not just your one.

... I accept that I do frequently start topics which are not exactly supportive of Jordan. I have never attempted to hide my lack of respect for our Chairman. My bias is certainly apparent from many of the messages on this thread.

However, you are being unfair in a number of important areas.

Firstly, I have stated that there are all sorts of reasons why Jordan may want to sell a player. I even went as far as to say that such sales may be in the best interests of the Club. I have not suggested or implied that the sales might mean that the 'end is nigh'!

Secondly, the advice which I gave to all who care to listen on the five year Season ticket offer was sound legal advice. I stand by it. I don't regard the risk to be great, and anyone who has purchased a long term ticket need not worry too much. However, the fact is that the Club (like many football league clubs) is struggling financially, and if disaster struck, anyone with a long term ticket would be an unsecured creditor. I pointed out the risk, that's all, it's up to all of you to decide whether the risk is worth while.

Finally, this is no rumour. Again I thought that I had made that clear. Jordan has told Freedman that he will be sold if an acceptable offer is received, and that there is no money available to allow him to offer an improved contract. He is presently paid substantially less than Akinbiyi - who is not for sale.

I hope that clears things up Justin, and I genuinely apologise if you find my tone patronising. That really isn't intended.

dannyturner
23-05-2002, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by James


Finally, this is no rumour. Again I thought that I had made that clear. Jordan has told Freedman that he will be sold if an acceptable offer is received, and that there is no money available to allow him to offer an improved contract. He is presently paid substantially less than Akinbiyi - who is not for sale.



James

Where you there when the above conversation took place? How do you know this? It's not as SJ would take you into his confidence. What's the source of the info?

Lords Eagle
23-05-2002, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by James



He is presently paid substantially less than Akinbiyi - who is not for sale.



I thought we were open to offers for all our players?

James
23-05-2002, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by dannyturner


James

Where you there when the above conversation took place? How do you know this? It's not as SJ would take you into his confidence. What's the source of the info?

I was wondering when someone would ask me that - well done.

Er ..... No comment!

arussell
23-05-2002, 03:04 PM
I can guess where James knows it from ;) - but I'd like to know where that person got his info from !

Good point earlier about players not necessarily having to be sold or not given new contracts JUST yet. Palace might decide to sell Freedman - doesn't mean he'll choose to go though.

Why on earth anyone in their right mind would pay Akinbiyi substantially more than Dougie is beyond me. We should have signed a lower league striker like Greenacre.

Justin
23-05-2002, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by James


... I accept that I do frequently start topics which are not exactly supportive of Jordan. I have never attempted to hide my lack of respect for our Chairman. My bias is certainly apparent from many of the messages on this thread.

However, you are being unfair in a number of important areas.

Firstly, I have stated that there are all sorts of reasons why Jordan may want to sell a player. I even went as far as to say that such sales may be in the best interests of the Club. I have not suggested or implied that the sales might mean that the 'end is nigh'!

Secondly, the advice which I gave to all who care to listen on the five year Season ticket offer was sound legal advice. I stand by it. I don't regard the risk to be great, and anyone who has purchased a long term ticket need not worry too much. However, the fact is that the Club (like many football league clubs) is struggling financially, and if disaster struck, anyone with a long term ticket would be an unsecured creditor. I pointed out the risk, that's all, it's up to all of you to decide whether the risk is worth while.

Finally, this is no rumour. Again I thought that I had made that clear. Jordan has told Freedman that he will be sold if an acceptable offer is received, and that there is no money available to allow him to offer an improved contract. He is presently paid substantially less than Akinbiyi - who is not for sale.

I hope that clears things up Justin, and I genuinely apologise if you find my tone patronising. That really isn't intended.

I am not wanting to get into an argument because it is pointless and very boring for everyone to read but your response I am afraid is rubbish. In your intitial post you said "i suspect that the problems might be deeper than this. I have never felt so gloomy about Palace's prospects". In case you have forgotten a few years ago the club was in administration. You have stated that you are more gloomy about our prospects than you were at that time. I would think it perfectly logical to conclude from what you wrote that you are and were suggesting the financial situation is very serious and the end is nigh.

You also posted that Freedman would be off quite soon. You did not say he had been refused a new larger contract. Freedman could well be off shortly or he may stay. There might not be any clubs prepared to pay Freedman the wages he feels he deserves when they look at his relative lack of success at Forest and Wolves. It might also just be negotiating tactics by Jordan. Whether he stays or goes though to state categorically that he is off is a rumour it is not fact.

I accept your legal explanation re the five year offer but any advice has been in the context of discussing the financial state of the club and by implication you have implied that people could lose their money. You do not quote the sales of goods act to people thinking about buying replica kits etc. Why have you in regard to the five year offer?

James
23-05-2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Justin


I am not wanting to get into an argument because it is pointless and very boring for everyone to read but your response I am afraid is rubbish.

I apologise. It was the best I could manage.

King Tubby
23-05-2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by James
He is presently paid substantially less than Akinbiyi - who is not for sale.
Originally posted by James

I can tell you that Simon Jordan has told the Team that there is no money for any improved contracts and that everyone is for sale at the right price.


Um....... So which is true??

Raoul Duke
23-05-2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by James


Finally, this is no rumour. Again I thought that I had made that clear. Jordan has told Freedman that he will be sold if an acceptable offer is received, and that there is no money available to allow him to offer an improved contract. He is presently paid substantially less than Akinbiyi - who is not for sale.



I have no reason to dis-believe you James, but I think that most posters on the BBS are hoping that you are very very wrong.

If there is any truth in this matter then it isn't Freedman that should be put up for sale, but SJ should sell CPFC 2000 to the highest bidder. NOW :veryangry

brighton_eagle
23-05-2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Raoul Duke
If there is any truth in this matter then it isn't Freedman that should be put up for sale, but SJ should sell CPFC 2000 to the highest bidder. NOW :veryangry

Short memories people!! Who the hell do you think will appear to buy our club this time? They weren't exactly falling over themselves 3 years ago were they, and now, with the ITV digital fiasco, I can't see there being more interest.

And anyway, so what if SJ is saying we need to sell players? In that respect we are no different from many other clubs, and no different from CPFC under Noades.

Be careful what you wish for Raoul, it might just come true.

Raoul Duke
23-05-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle


Short memories people!! Who the hell do you think will appear to buy our club this time? They weren't exactly falling over themselves 3 years ago were they, and now, with the ITV digital fiasco, I can't see there being more interest.

And anyway, so what if SJ is saying we need to sell players? In that respect we are no different from many other clubs, and no different from CPFC under Noades.

Be careful what you wish for Raoul, it might just come true.

You're probably completely right, but unfortunately I am sick of this club taking two steps forward, and one and a half steps back. SJ has spent millions on buying average players, on Jumbotrons etc but if we start selling players now in a deflated market it'll be years b4 we'll see Palace in the Premier League again.

My comments were born of frustration.:veryangry

brighton_eagle
23-05-2002, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Raoul Duke


You're probably completely right, but unfortunately I am sick of this club taking two steps forward, and one and a half steps back. SJ has spent millions on buying average players, on Jumbotrons etc but if we start selling players now in a deflated market it'll be years b4 we'll see Palace in the Premier League again.

My comments were born of frustration.:veryangry

I know, and believe me I feel your pain.

But it's a fact that football is in a period of change, so we'll just have to weather the storm and see what happens. SJ's actions now might appear very prudent with hindsight.

wedgetail
23-05-2002, 04:22 PM
Just a little aside on Freedman, I don't disbelieve the reports that SJ may be forced to sell him, but who are the possible buyers?

James
23-05-2002, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by wedgetail
Just a little aside on Freedman, I don't disbelieve the reports that SJ may be forced to sell him, but who are the possible buyers?

Even in today's depressed market, I would expect that someone would come in for him at the quoted 1 million level. Wouldn't you?

Beanie
23-05-2002, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by James


Even in today's depressed market, I would expect that someone would come in for him at the quoted 1 million level. Wouldn't you?

Logic would say that a buyer would be found - but would they? I assume apart from the 1m they would have to offer Dougie more than he is getting now (he can stay where he is and get that for another season). It is my impression that whilst the deal is not better, it's not worse. Who in Div 1 is likely to do that until the TV case is settled? If the case is won, then with 3m coming in the need to sell would, I assume, end. If the case is lost then will somebody else find the money to pick him up? The only club with deep pockets is Wolves - and I honestly can't see that. Perhaps a relegated club with parachute money, but given the recent experience of Sheff Wed and Bradford, I'm sure they will be very careful with that money.

Raoul Duke
23-05-2002, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle


I know, and believe me I feel your pain.

But it's a fact that football is in a period of change, so we'll just have to weather the storm and see what happens. SJ's actions now might appear very prudent with hindsight.

I've calmed down now.

If selling Freedman or anyone else for that matter helps keep this club open for business in the years to come, then so be it. :(

wedgetail
23-05-2002, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by James


Even in today's depressed market, I would expect that someone would come in for him at the quoted 1 million level. Wouldn't you?
That's just the problem, ALL the div1 clubs have had 3 million blown out of their finacial plans for next season. So unless a demoted club sells a striker for a big amount and wants a cheaper replacement I can't see a bidder.

James
23-05-2002, 05:54 PM
Some interesting points above. Clearly if nobody comes in for Freedman, he will stay - in which case, what would Jordan do?

If he doesn't agree a new contract with Freedman, then in 12 short months, Freedman would be free to leave and negotiate his own contract elsewhere. I am just about willing to accept that perhaps no Club is willing to pay 1 million for Freedman AND pay him a decent wage - but if the premium is taken out of the equation, surely Dougie could expect a generous pay packet from some other Club?

If nobody comes in for Freedman during the Summer, Jordan may have to rethink his refusal to agree a new contract with him.

Justin
23-05-2002, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by James
Some interesting points above. Clearly if nobody comes in for Freedman, he will stay - in which case, what would Jordan do?



and there was me thinking it was a fact he was off soon......!!

Don't worry I will get my own coat and go and see what is in my fridge!!

AJ
23-05-2002, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by James
Some interesting points above. Clearly if nobody comes in for Freedman, he will stay - in which case, what would Jordan do?

If he doesn't agree a new contract with Freedman, then in 12 short months, Freedman would be free to leave and negotiate his own contract elsewhere. I am just about willing to accept that perhaps no Club is willing to pay 1 million for Freedman AND pay him a decent wage - but if the premium is taken out of the equation, surely Dougie could expect a generous pay packet from some other Club?

If nobody comes in for Freedman during the Summer, Jordan may have to rethink his refusal to agree a new contract with him.

James,

I don't mean to be rude to you, but, someone well respected once told me that you are someone who likes to think they know a lot about the goings on at the Palace, but, really you know s**t.
Remember, I didn't say that, I was told that.

All I want to know, if is it is true?:o :o :o

James
23-05-2002, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by AJ


James,

I don't mean to be rude to you, but, someone well respected once told me that you are someone who likes to think they know a lot about the goings on at the Palace, but, really you know s**t.
Remember, I didn't say that, I was told that.

All I want to know, if is it is true?:o :o :o

Essentially it's true. More accurately, I like to pretend I know a lot when in fact I know s**t. Mind you some of the s**t I do know would make your hair stand on end.

Sadly, I know much less now than I did when dear old tmjwat was still with us. Tim would often call me with some odd bit of information which he or one of his colleagues had gathered, but which for some reason or other couldn't be printed.

AJ
23-05-2002, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by James


Essentially it's true. More accurately, I like to pretend I know a lot when in fact I know s**t. Mind you some of the s**t I do know would make your hair stand on end.

Sadly, I know much less now than I did when dear old tmjwat was still with us. Tim would often call me with some odd bit of information which he or one of his colleagues had gathered, but which for some reason or other couldn't be printed.

Well join the gang, as I know s**t too!

wedgetail
23-05-2002, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by James
. I am just about willing to accept that perhaps no Club is willing to pay 1 million for Freedman

I think the issue is not willing to but able to


surely Dougie could expect a generous pay packet from some other Club?

Players salaries are established by market forces but the market has changed.
Remember all the other 71 Nationwide league clubs are in the same position.

Gooders
23-05-2002, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by wedgetail

Remember all the other 71 Nationwide league clubs are in the same position.

No they're not.

They don't all have a chairman that would sanction spending 5 times as much on a mediocre player who has lost all his confidence than he spent on a very skillful player who was a cast-iron guarantee to get loads of goals in the 1st division, and then pay the lesser player twice as much money every week into the bargain.

Ian Hart
24-05-2002, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by AJ


Well join the gang, as I know s**t too!

Who is this "s**t"? Why is it that only insiders like James and AJ know him? How do I get to meet him?

I feel that as someone who doesn't even know s**t, I can't sink any lower :sob: :sob:

hughff
24-05-2002, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by Raoul Duke


I've calmed down now.

If selling Freedman or anyone else for that matter helps keep this club open for business in the years to come, then so be it. :(

I think this is a dangerous point. Keeping the club open for business means more than balancing the wages. It also means putting out a product that the punters will pay for, i.e. a team that gets points. Without Dougie, I can't see that happening. His skill and goals cannot be replaced.

Officer Dibble
24-05-2002, 04:48 AM
Well it's clear from the available information to suggest that we are witnessing a game of contract brinkmanship between Jordan and Dougie (and his advisors).

With one year to go on his existing contract, Dougie is looking for his last big payday deal. He knows that Jordan needs to secure a deal this summer otherwise Palace will get diddly-squat next summer if Dougie leaves on a Bosman. Quite rightly, from his perspective, he wants a better deal.

Jordan probably wants to secure Dougie for a long contract but equally doesn't want to ratchet up any more salaries given the ITV-Digital fiasco. He's decided to drive down some costs and put the club onto a better and safer footing. So Jordan starts to hint at a departure knowing that Dougie doesn't want to go.

Stalemate. If Dougie doesn't sign a renewal contract at current salary, Jordan will list him to test his resolve and to protect the Bosman situation.

All conjecture, but pretty likely ?

Lords Eagle
24-05-2002, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Officer Dibble
Well it's clear from the available information to suggest that we are witnessing a game of contract brinkmanship between Jordan and Dougie (and his advisors).

With one year to go on his existing contract, Dougie is looking for his last big payday deal. He knows that Jordan needs to secure a deal this summer otherwise Palace will get diddly-squat next summer if Dougie leaves on a Bosman. Quite rightly, from his perspective, he wants a better deal.

Jordan probably wants to secure Dougie for a long contract but equally doesn't want to ratchet up any more salaries given the ITV-Digital fiasco. He's decided to drive down some costs and put the club onto a better and safer footing. So Jordan starts to hint at a departure knowing that Dougie doesn't want to go.

Stalemate. If Dougie doesn't sign a renewal contract at current salary, Jordan will list him to test his resolve and to protect the Bosman situation.

All conjecture, but pretty likely ?
This is the most sensible post on this thread so far.

Beanie
24-05-2002, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by hughff


I think this is a dangerous point. Keeping the club open for business means more than balancing the wages. It also means putting out a product that the punters will pay for, i.e. a team that gets points. Without Dougie, I can't see that happening. His skill and goals cannot be replaced.

Whilst this starts out fine the last bit is totally untrue.

Sooner or later - hopefully later - Dougie will stop playing for Palace, and he will be replaced, as every player is eventually replaced. I hope he stays, but no player is irreplaceable - ask Roy Keane.

King Tubby
24-05-2002, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Beanie


Whilst this starts out fine the last bit is totally untrue.

Sooner or later - hopefully later - Dougie will stop playing for Palace, and he will be replaced, as every player is eventually replaced. I hope he stays, but no player is irreplaceable - ask Roy Keane.

No, no player is irreplacable in the long term, but in the short term, at Palace, Dougie is. If we end up in a position that we have to sell Dougie to balance the books, then I would think it pretty safe to assume we would already have sold Morrison, this means we would have no goalscorers, and frankly these two have carried us the entire season, our next top scorer has how much? six? Because of our woefull scoring record from Midfield, we need a reliable goalscorer up front. If we are forced to sell Dougie to balance the books, clearly we would not have any extra cash to fund a replacement, so we would be up **** creek without a paddle, we could pick up Adebola or Owusu(sp?) on frees, but I don't see either of them with Akinbiyi doing the job that Freedman and Morrison has done for us this season.

And again - James - you said every player is for sale, and then said Akinbiyi is not for sale, is Akinbiyi considered a player or what. You're posting inconsistent rumours.

LLCOOLSTEVE
24-05-2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by King Tubby



And again - James - you said every player is for sale, and then said Akinbiyi is not for sale, is Akinbiyi considered a player or what. You're posting inconsistent rumours.

Im sure Ade would be available but who is gonna buy him in his condition at the moment??? he is unlikely to play for some months......

King Tubby
24-05-2002, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE


Im sure Ade would be available but who is gonna buy him in his condition at the moment??? he is unlikely to play for some months......

Yes, but James explicitly said that Akinbiyi is not for sale, not that no one would buy him.

Beanie
24-05-2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by King Tubby


No, no player is irreplacable in the long term, but in the short term, at Palace, Dougie is. If we end up in a position that we have to sell Dougie to balance the books, then I would think it pretty safe to assume we would already have sold Morrison, this means we would have no goalscorers, and frankly these two have carried us the entire season, our next top scorer has how much? six? Because of our woefull scoring record from Midfield, we need a reliable goalscorer up front. If we are forced to sell Dougie to balance the books, clearly we would not have any extra cash to fund a replacement, so we would be up **** creek without a paddle, we could pick up Adebola or Owusu(sp?) on frees, but I don't see either of them with Akinbiyi doing the job that Freedman and Morrison has done for us this season.



I would say that it would be more likely that we could sell Dougie than that we could sell Clinton - simply because the number of clubs who could find the 1m is higher than the number who could find the 7m (?) to get Clinton, but that not what I'm saying.

As soon as you home in on any player as irreplaceable you are asking for trouble. What if Dougie was forced out through injury during pre-season? we'd replace him, we'd have to. I have no wish to see Dougie go, but IF selling him stabelised the club it would have to happen. Personally I think that he and Jordan will find a compromise, probably short term until the TV case is over and then revisit.

King Tubby
24-05-2002, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Beanie


I would say that it would be more likely that we could sell Dougie than that we could sell Clinton - simply because the number of clubs who could find the 1m is higher than the number who could find the 7m (?) to get Clinton, but that not what I'm saying.

As soon as you home in on any player as irreplaceable you are asking for trouble. What if Dougie was forced out through injury during pre-season? we'd replace him, we'd have to. I have no wish to see Dougie go, but IF selling him stabelised the club it would have to happen. Personally I think that he and Jordan will find a compromise, probably short term until the TV case is over and then revisit.

I agree, we would inevitably find someone to replace Dougie in the team, he's not technically irreplacable, but whatever replacement we would get would not be in the same class as he is. No player is irreplacable, but selling him would inevitably lead to a drop in quality because we simply could not afford a player of comparable quality. As an individual player he is replacable, but in our economic situation (if it is as bad as we're told) his quality is not.

I agree though, ultimately if we have to sell him, we have to sell him, end of story, hopefully for significantly more than 1m, but then we've been through this before a few years ago haven't we?

Lords Eagle
24-05-2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Beanie




As soon as you home in on any player as irreplaceable you are asking for trouble

Absolutely, as a good friend of mine once said "The cemetery is full of irreplacable people".

fieldy
24-05-2002, 04:17 PM
Where an earth did this figure of 1 million for Dougie come from???

firesign
24-05-2002, 04:27 PM
I predict that this summer we will see far less transfer activity than normal. All clubs, in all divisions, are feeling nervous and nobody wants to get caught out having players on high wages on long contracts. I don't think Freedman is going anywhere and am reasonably confident that Clinton will still be here next season too.

Beanie
24-05-2002, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by fieldy
Where an earth did this figure of 1 million for Dougie come from???

Picked it somewhere in this thread I thought. Still, I'm with firesign, I think a solution will be found, at least short term. It may need a bit of give and take alround but I thikn he'll stay - so it won't matter.

AJ
24-05-2002, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Beanie


I would say that it would be more likely that we could sell Dougie than that we could sell Clinton - simply because the number of clubs who could find the 1m is higher than the number who could find the 7m (?) to get Clinton, but that not what I'm saying.



Interesting, but, I wonder if that is actually going to be the case. In England, you have the 18 Premeirship teams all able to spend around 10m or more, with no worries. There will be maybe 1 or 2 clubs outside the Premiership who will have "something" to spend, but, not much.
Even in Scotland, there is currently no TV deal, so, basically the bottom is falling out of soccer.
Therefore, I wonder if there will be more clubs willing to spend 7m than 1m?

firesign
24-05-2002, 08:17 PM
AJ - good point. I think also that those clubs with 10m to spend aare more likely to buy 2-3 players at 3-5m each rather than 10 at 1m each. So, the number of potential buyers for Dougie may not be that great.

AJ
25-05-2002, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by firesign
AJ - good point. I think also that those clubs with 10m to spend aare more likely to buy 2-3 players at 3-5m each rather than 10 at 1m each. So, the number of potential buyers for Dougie may not be that great.

Man City just spent 13m on a striker, who isn't at the World Cup(yet).

Beanie
25-05-2002, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by AJ


Man City just spent 13m on a striker, who isn't at the World Cup(yet).


That is true - and for their sake they'd better stay in the Premiership as he isn't the first expensive signing. I don't think many clubs would take a risk like that. Those who can will still be looking for value. Even the premiership must realise that the bubble has burst and whilst Sky aren't likely to go bust they'll be very lucky to match the current deal next time round. All clubs will be wary about wage bills (which are I think a bigger problem then transfer fees) growing over the next few years. I foresee squads strinking as well. The top players will probably still get big sums, but they will carry fewer reserves. The days of making a fortune playing the Premier Reserve League are numbered. There is even paper talk of limiting squads to 25 players. Very much doubt that will happen, but I sure something will. A lot of fringe players will be sold comparitively cheap or allowed to go on a Bosman even from the premiership over the next few seasons.

Streatham man
25-05-2002, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by freddykurz
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Crunchie
[B]

And your blind view of Francis, who you have turned into a saint, despite the continual evidence that our team, style of play, team morale, and points to game ratio has been on the decline since he joined the club.

Nowhere will you find any evidence of me canonising TF or anyone else at the Club, but I've tried to be objective and unprejudiced in judging those involved in working for the success of CPFC. One-sided, prejudiced, criticism of the kind you and Streatham all-too-frequently indulge in is unlikely to advance the cause of enlightenment or the progress of our Football team one iota I'm sorry to say!.

Sorry, I've read many of your previous threads, and you are pretty much exclusively in the "I'm going to defend TF at all costs" frame of mind. I've said a number of positive things about TF on the boards that I'd be happy to resurface...have you said anything negative about TF? Do I have a point of view? Yes...I think that on balance TF is the wrong manager for us, plain and simple. If he stays, he will do more damage to the club. You should pop your head out from fantasy land now and again -- it's not so bad.

Streatham man
25-05-2002, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by freddykurz


All totally subjective opinion, Streatham man, based on your very own highly personalised view of someone you have turned into a satan-figure responsible for all the ills of CPFC! Your problem and that of several others who think like you on this thread is that however much criticism you hurl at TF, the Chairman will continue to back him until he is convinced that he cannot advance the cause of Crystal Palace F.C. It is interesting that you should believe that "dour, miserable" managers are necessarily likely to be unsuccessful. Neither Ferguson or Graham were rays of sunshine, but it didn't stop them producing Double-winning football teams. Your assertion that Francis has "poor judgement" must be set against his above-average record as manager of Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham City. From day one you have never been prepared to give Francis a chance to prove himself, and it is obvious that you never will. Despite all your protestations that you have the interests of our Club at heart. I believe such blind prejudice can only destroy everything we, the fans have built over the last 97 years.

This cr*p is starting to annoy me. I've said a # of positive things about Francis (I applauded the acquisitions of Fleming and Granville, for example), and certainly was prepared to give him a chance. As for "blind prejudice" -- I've looked at his actions and the results since his arrival at CPFC from an objective point of view. And my conclusion is that he's not the manager for us, and the sooner SJ realizes it, the better. Do you really believe that we will be on the up and up with TF at the helm?

So how about a truce here -- we have different points of view, but we both care deeply about CPFC. Let's agree to disagree amicably. Alternatively, I'll put you on my ignore feature, and I won't respond to you again going forward.

Martin H
25-05-2002, 06:06 PM
Does anyone actually use the ignore feature?

I guess I'll never know, 'cos none of you will see this if you do :-(

I feel so alone :sob:

Streatham man
25-05-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by freddykurz


All totally subjective opinion, Streatham man, based on your very own highly personalised view of someone you have turned into a satan-figure responsible for all the ills of CPFC! Your problem and that of several others who think like you on this thread is that however much criticism you hurl at TF, the Chairman will continue to back him until he is convinced that he cannot advance the cause of Crystal Palace F.C. It is interesting that you should believe that "dour, miserable" managers are necessarily likely to be unsuccessful. Neither Ferguson or Graham were rays of sunshine, but it didn't stop them producing Double-winning football teams. Your assertion that Francis has "poor judgement" must be set against his above-average record as manager of Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham City. From day one you have never been prepared to give Francis a chance to prove himself, and it is obvious that you never will. Despite all your protestations that you have the interests of our Club at heart. I believe such blind prejudice can only destroy everything we, the fans have built over the last 97 years.

BTW, I'm glad to know that your opinions are not subjective but based solely on the facts (which any fair minded individual would agree with you on). :rolleyes:

26-05-2002, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Streatham man


This cr*p is starting to annoy me. I've said a # of positive things about Francis (I applauded the acquisitions of Fleming and Granville, for example), and certainly was prepared to give him a chance. As for "blind prejudice" -- I've looked at his actions and the results since his arrival at CPFC from an objective point of view. And my conclusion is that he's not the manager for us, and the sooner SJ realizes it, the better. Do you really believe that we will be on the up and up with TF at the helm?

So how about a truce here -- we have different points of view, but we both care deeply about CPFC. Let's agree to disagree amicably. Alternatively, I'll put you on my ignore feature, and I won't respond to you again going forward.

Fair enough, Streatham man, we'll agree to disagree and move on to work for the future success of the team we care so passionately about!

Streatham man
26-05-2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by freddykurz


Fair enough, Streatham man, we'll agree to disagree and move on to work for the future success of the team we care so passionately about!

Freddy --

We have different points of view, but you are a gentleman and a scholar. And I recognize you are a true supporter of CPFC.

Crunchie
26-05-2002, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Streatham man


Freddy --

We have different points of view, but you are a gentleman and a scholar. And I recognize you are a true supporter of CPFC.

And, so say all of us.

Latvian
24-06-2002, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Ian Hart


Who is this "s**t"? Why is it that only insiders like James and AJ know him? How do I get to meet him?

I feel that as someone who doesn't even know s**t, I can't sink any lower :sob: :sob:


Any relation to Jack s**t or this Sweet F.A. I hear so much about?

EpsomEagle
25-06-2002, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by freddykurz


Fair enough, Streatham man, we'll agree to disagree and move on to work for the future success of the team we care so passionately about!

Does this mean you'll agree to disagree, but disagree to part? :)

25-06-2002, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by EpsomEagle


Does this mean you'll agree to disagree, but disagree to part? :)
What woke you up? Where have you been since May - on another planet?

Ian Hart
25-06-2002, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by freddykurz

What woke you up? Where have you been since May - on another planet?

Yep, it's the close season alright. No further point in discussing England's World Cup chances. No Palace news around worth commenting on.

So, people trawl old threads instead until they find something - anything - to say about one of them :p