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View Full Version : SUN SAYS: EMile Heskey: WHY?


Sir.S.C Remembered
28-05-2002, 04:00 AM
Fair comment I think! I watched him rip apart Palace a few seasons back at Selhurst in the cup (except Deano of all players-he had a blinder and Emilie failed to score amazingly) and thought he was not just a big lump. But his touch seems terrible and he is way to casual now and not violent enough. I think Liverpool have tried to play hoof ball to him, mnake him bring it down and go counter attacking football too much?

Sometimes he has good games but personally I think he is terrible overall but would still include him in the squad as he is the only big forward about and its another option and despite terrible showings in the league I have always thought he has done well for England consistantly despite a lack of goals on the international stage.

One thing for sure is he is no left winger as we have all said for ages. Sven says he'll start there too, and I thought he had his head screwed on?

P.S. Vassell had 3 goals in 4 1/2 games to Emile's 3 in 23!

P.P.S. Reason he played badly v. Cameroon is because his "shorts were too tight"!!!

pete eagle
28-05-2002, 04:08 AM
Heskey has pace to burn, often he does not use it enough. He's strong and can take on defenders.
He does have the habit of performing well in the big games and offers England an option in holding up the ball which will be very useful in Japan because the ability to hold onto the ball and wait for others to join the attack will be needed especially with the pace of the football likely to be a bit slower.

He may not be in my starting line up but he deserves to be there and will perform

Daniel_Nash
28-05-2002, 04:29 AM
The "why" is easy.. because he is fast, powerful and a difficulty for defences. He is out of form, and that's the bad point about him.

The Sun isn't known for it's intellectual or logical approach to criticism. The typical reader isn't supposed to be clever.

Another reason why he SHOULD be in the side is because Sven wants a 4-3-3 when attacking and a 4-4-2 when defending. Heskey fits into a wide role, and a forward role. Does anyone else? Maybe Alan Smith, but he's not there.

skeletor_80
28-05-2002, 04:08 PM
I dont think he should start, basically because he isn't in form. When he's on top of his game he is dangerous because of his pace and strength, despite the fact that he is quite clumsy he can link up play quite well and hold the ball up. His size also has the potential to scare opposing defenders.

He definitely shouldn't play on the left as he hasn't got a clue and we have players who are much more at home there and who will pose a genuine threat - Sinclair(performed well against Cameroon), A Cole, J Cole, Bridge, Hargreaves(better suited to a central/right role).

I do think he should be involved alongside Owen at some point during the opener, but not from the off.

Cleon
28-05-2002, 04:11 PM
Heskey is a good player who scares defenses... but Vassell is really looking good and should definitely be Owen's strike partner on Sunday, as I said some weeks ago. And I really don't think Heskey is a good left winger, so unless injuries force Sven's hand I don't see any reason that Heskey should start, especially against Sweden who are experienced at dealing with big, hard target men.

King Tubby
28-05-2002, 04:28 PM
I think Jansen would partner Owen perfectly. In Owen, England have one of the best finishing strikers in the world, he makes brilliant runs and has fantastic technique. Basically he executes chances almost perfectly. He is not creative though, he rarely makes chances, just takes them. Heskey does do a useful role, but he doesn't create chances, and in my opinion the job he does is not as useful as that which Jansen would do creating chances for Owen. Jansen is, with Sheringham now being old and poo, the best creative striker England have. I think the two would complement each other perfectly, like Sheringham/Shearer, Lineker/Beardsley, Pele/Tostal, Romario/Bebeto. One partner is the main creator, the other the brilliant finisher.

Owen and Heskey both do a good job, but they do their job seperately, they don't play as a partnership as I think Owen and Jansen would.

Vassel I see more as a replacement for Owen if he's injured, not a partner for him.

King Tubby
28-05-2002, 04:31 PM
Oh yeah, and Heskey is good at holding the ball up - he shouldn't be needed to, we shouldn't be playing long ball except on the counter when we are looking to get forward quickly using Owen's pace and not look to hold the ball up at all. Also, as good as Heskey is at holding the ball up and retaining possession, this doesn't matter if he never has possession of the ball because of his poor first touch which will be exposed against top quality defenders.

Random*
28-05-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by King Tubby
I think Jansen would partner Owen perfectly. In Owen, England have one of the best finishing strikers in the world, he makes brilliant runs and has fantastic technique. Basically he executes chances almost perfectly. He is not creative though, he rarely makes chances, just takes them. Heskey does do a useful role, but he doesn't create chances, and in my opinion the job he does is not as useful as that which Jansen would do creating chances for Owen.

Yeah, I voiced a similar opinion some time ago - Jansen has the ability to make a defender look stupid and create a chance for his strike partner. Owen is a goal poacher ala Linekar - albeit with pace, allowing him to either play from deep, or get in close. IMO This country doesn't have someone with the sublime goal creating talent of a Bergkamp - but Jansen is the closest thing we do have, and I'm mystified why he wasn't picked.

King Tubby
28-05-2002, 04:37 PM
And he can do a much better job on the left than Heskey.

GOD
28-05-2002, 04:39 PM
I think Ade Panicbye is a poor mans Emile Heskey

ammiller
28-05-2002, 05:04 PM
I think Heskey is a typical example where people "in football" rate a player far more than the average punter.

In the category of "football people" I would include Managers, team-mates and opponents.

In the category of "punters" I would include any spectators, journalists, ex-players/pundits on tv.

Other players who come into the "what do they see in him?" category include

Ade Akinbiyi
David Burke
Jeff Hopkins
Phil Barber.

And on the international stage

Ray Wilkins
The Nevilles

Then there is the reverse scenario where the punters see a player and can never understand why they don't get picked more for club or country such as

Dave Madden
Alan Whittle
Jamie Pollock

Steve McManaman


Of course it isn't black and white where everyone thinks Heskey is crap - I'm sure there are some punters who think he's good.

But the fact of the matter is that the people "in football" are far more qualified to make a judgement on a player than the "punter" category.

Of course the punter is entitled to their opinion.

It's just that the "football" people are better qualified and probably think the punter's opinion is crap.

Elephant with mouse gyp
28-05-2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by King Tubby
Jansen is, with Sheringham now being old and poo, the best creative striker England have.

I agree with most of what you say on this but saying Teddy is poo is wide of the mark.

He created Saturday's last minute goal, for instance. The main thing he lacks is pace, but there is a simple solution to that - don't play him right up front but behind Owen, almost in midfield.

After the Cameroon game, Peter Taylor and Alan Smith (Big Nose, not Big No-No) both said Teddy should start and I agree. It's the one good thing that might come out of Heskey playing on the wing.

Gooders
28-05-2002, 05:36 PM
I've said it before and I've said it again, Heskey is nowhere near being an international-class footballer.

He has no touch, can't head for toffee, and for a "big strong quick lad" is as powder puff when the chips are down as Frank Bruno.

How he can be "the only guaranteed starter" for the Sweden game is absolutely beyond me.

Presumably, the management are hoping that he will knock one in with his arse from a yard out so that they can look smug afterwards.

Don't hold your breath chaps.

PeterH
28-05-2002, 05:42 PM
Can we get a nice juicy Irish story on the back pages. At least it stops the tabloids undermining England at every opportunity. We have been blessed with them ignoring England in the last week and that for me has been perfect.

firesign
28-05-2002, 05:48 PM
I've never rated Heskey - can't see what all the fuss is about. He's okay, but an international? Where would he rank in a list of England's all-time great strikers? For me he wouldn't even get in the top 100.

King Tubby
28-05-2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp


I agree with most of what you say on this but saying Teddy is poo is wide of the mark.

He created Saturday's last minute goal, for instance. The main thing he lacks is pace, but there is a simple solution to that - don't play him right up front but behind Owen, almost in midfield.

After the Cameroon game, Peter Taylor and Alan Smith (Big Nose, not Big No-No) both said Teddy should start and I agree. It's the one good thing that might come out of Heskey playing on the wing.
He does still have something to offer, he has a startling tendency to score or produce something when it matters, ie Greece, European cup final, Cameroon, and he does offer England more in terms of aerial threat. But, he has been in very poor form for Tottenham this season, I think he hasn't quite got the fitness anymore, and don't really see him lasting 90 minutes of World Cup football, especially as the tournament progresses.

firesign
28-05-2002, 05:54 PM
But Sheringham consistently plays well for England and the Sweden game is a MUST-WIN. Personally I'd start with Owen and Fowler but if not, Sheringham would be ahead of Heskey in my reckoning. But then I'm not the England manager and I haven't shagged Ulrika Johnson either :confused:

bucketbongeagle
28-05-2002, 06:06 PM
I think Heskey is alright, granted he's not the most gifted footballer at the World cup but I would certainly want him there and probably starting. Personally I think the best striking partership is that big strong target man with a little, quick, skillful forward feeding off him and running into space, Wright/Bright demonstrated that perfectly, how much fun will it be for defenders having to deal with Heskey, Owen and possibly Vassell ?
When Peter Taylor managed England (v Finland ?) seem to remember he played Heskey as a left winger and was man of the match, when he's on his game he is a right handful.

Daniel_Nash
28-05-2002, 06:57 PM
I don't think he is intended as a striker!! Owen and Vassell seem to be maturing into a good partnership. Heskey is a good wide man who joins up with the strikers while attacking. No doubting his pace and clear strength, he isn't the most articulate on the ball but you don't need a team of showboaters.

Cleon
28-05-2002, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash
I don't think he is intended as a striker!! Owen and Vassell seem to be maturing into a good partnership. Heskey is a good wide man who joins up with the strikers while attacking. No doubting his pace and clear strength, he isn't the most articulate on the ball but you don't need a team of showboaters.

I think you're right. Sven seems to want to play a 4-4-2, which turns into a 4-3-3 when England are attacking. In which case he likes Heskey's versitility. There is another manager who'd like to do the same... scary isn't it?:eek:

bucketbongeagle
28-05-2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Cleon


I think you're right. Sven seems to want to play a 4-4-2, which turns into a 4-3-3 when England are attacking. In which case he likes Heskey's versitility. There is another manager who'd like to do the same... scary isn't it?:eek:

Good point, to be fair it's not a bad concept but as we know Adi didn't match up to Heskey, which is why he's playing with us and not L'pool I suppose.

John Smith
28-05-2002, 07:56 PM
To me it seems the naming of Heskey as a certain starter suggests he will play wide left if Dyer is not fit and up front with Owen (whom he has a partnership at club level with)should Dyer be fit in time.

Against Argentina in a friendly some time ago Heskey did really well wide left and after all what other superior options do we have for this position if Dyer is not fit?

It is the fact that he is in line for two positions that makes him a certain starter.

The Omen
28-05-2002, 08:58 PM
I like Heskey, but I say play him up front or not at all. I think he is terrible on the wing.

Gooders
28-05-2002, 11:17 PM
I would honestly be as happy as larry if Heskey does well and of course I want to see England progress. But I just can't see it.

He has been in no sort of form for almost the whole season for both Liverpool and England. His goalscoring record playing up front for one of the top two or three teams in the country is awful.

I was always taught that you pick the men "in form" and Heskey is about as far away from being in form as anyone in the squad.

So, our lumbering giant with the soft centre has failed up-front so what do we do. I know, we play him in midfield.

In case you haven't noticed, he has the lowest pass completion ratio of anyone in the squad by some distance and has no stats at all for tackles because he never makes any!

What are we going to do, get Campbell to lump the ball out to the left wing all morning in the hope that occasionally it sticks? The boy hasn't been a "left winger" since his teenage years, it's madness.

Sir.S.C Remembered
28-05-2002, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash

The Sun isn't known for it's intellectual or logical approach to criticism. The typical reader isn't supposed to be clever.



Hey was that an insult aimed at me? I don't usually read it and have conflicting thoughts about the Heskey involvement and am a big fan of the very different Alan Smith but I was just being Devil's advocate in bringing up the topic, thought it could be a decent discussion.

P.S. I am not your average Sun dumb reader!!!

Daniel_Nash
28-05-2002, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered


Hey was that an insult aimed at me? I don't usually read it and have conflicting thoughts about the Heskey involvement and am a big fan of the very different Alan Smith but I was just being Devil's advocate in bringing up the topic, thought it could be a decent discussion.

P.S. I am not your average Sun dumb reader!!!

Not at all was it an insult aimed at you, it was merely meant to show the way they get their message across. It's not always the most thought out or correct way!

I sometimes look at it too, i don't necessarily believe all i read in it or take anything written too seriously.

No one said you were the average Sun reader.

The Omen
28-05-2002, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash

No one said you were the average Sun reader.

"You're just an average Sun reader you are!!" :o

Daniel_Nash
28-05-2002, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by The Omen


"You're just an average Sun reader you are!!" :o

"Yeah, not even a good one! Just an AVERAGE one!!" :o

hong_kong_hg
28-05-2002, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by bucketbongeagle
how much fun will it be for defenders having to deal with Heskey, Owen and possibly Vassell ?

On the evidence of Korea and Camaroon the opposition will find it the proverbial piece of cake. Until England learns some basic football skills such as bringing a ball under control within 5 touches and passing accurately to a teammate, the current brand of hoofball England sports will pay little dividends at the world cup. We might just get away with it against Sweden, but Argentina and Nigeria will counter it easily and probably dish out a footballing lesson. IMO the Beckham - Scholes - Butt backbone of the midfield is crucial if England are to progress beyond group F. Witness the one moment of genuine class against Camaroon - Scholes with the ball at his feet with a little bit of space picking out Vassell in space to score the equaliser against the run of play.

However whilst we're perservering with the hoofball option Heskey is a better option than Sheringham.

Sir.S.C Remembered
29-05-2002, 04:09 AM
I didn;t think you were Dan mate,

Very funny Omen

P.S> I merely read quotes from most interviews and stories etc

Daniel_Nash
29-05-2002, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered
I didn;t think you were Dan mate,

Very funny Omen

P.S> I merely read quotes from most interviews and stories etc

I'm always here :D Just prefer to hide, bit mysterious ya see.

I read the problem pages, it's great fun! :p

Gooders
30-05-2002, 01:24 AM
Charlie Whelan writing in The Standard today...

"I don't know anything about football. This, at least, is what Phil Thompson thinks because I don't believe Emile Heskey should be in the England team.

In fact, Thompson thinks that anyone who doesn't think Heskey is a cross between Pele and Zinedine Zidane knows nothing about football...

Recent form suggests that Darius Vassell should partner Michael Owen up front. They have scored a goal every 119 and 139 minutes respectively.

Heskey's ratio, a goal every 418 minutes, puts him last among England's strikers, behind Robbie Fowler and Teddy Sheringham.

Maybe Sven is tempted to play Heskey on the left but that's where you need a player who can pass and control the ball. Heskey can do neither."

Boris the charltonhater
30-05-2002, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by ammiller

Then there is the reverse scenario where the punters see a player and can never understand why they don't get picked more for club or country such as

Jamie Pollock


:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

nicky
30-05-2002, 02:36 PM
Sheringham and Owen looks like the best combo to me.

Jansen then replaces Sheringham after the World Cup.

Heskey's best position is on the bench as "Plan B".

Gooders
30-05-2002, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by nicky

Heskey's best position is on the bench...

With the other planks.