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View Full Version : No More Signings Before Season Starts ?


OKnotOK
09-07-2002, 02:13 PM
According to the rivals.net story, Palace Will Sign No More Players - Francis (http://crystalpalace.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=908&p=2&stid=8264984), Palace are done in the transfer market for the summer.

Danny Butterfield will be it so there will be no attacking creative midfielder that everyone knows we need. Is Jordan skint? Or is he being careful with his money? Or is Francis (and i have been quite a believer in his abilities, at least in the transfer market) too blind to see what we were missing towards the end of the season?

Anyway Butterfield will start on right midfield, so looks like the team will be:

Clarke,
Flemming, Popovic, Symons, Granville
Butterfield, Riihilahti, Mullins, Gray
Freedman, Morrison

Is this the sort of team people think can succeed in a push for promotion?

Stubby
09-07-2002, 02:24 PM
Will there be a place for Rubins/Black. I would like to see Andrej given a chance, but I feel Palace need a tough/govener type midfielder, mmmm like mmmmm Jamie Pollock !!!!:o (someone who can kick ass - well the other team's ass !!!)

Justy C
09-07-2002, 02:25 PM
If this report is true then its quite depressing. I haven't seen Butterfield play but the comments I have read suggest he is a defensive player. Playing him wide right midfield would not be positive, playing Black there would be. When fit, our back 4 should be strong enough, enabling the midfield to have more creative players. Please Trev, don't pack the midfield with defensive players. Its dull to watch. I want to see us taking the game to the opposition, not hoping for a 1-0 win.

As for touting Mullins and Morrison around to other clubs, I'm praying that they are here for the start of the season and we get off to a flyer, hopefully changing Jordans mind.

Cyneagle
09-07-2002, 02:26 PM
Looks a very good team on paper IMO. I hope also that our Tommy can make an impact this term if he can establish a first team berth.

Dobbo
09-07-2002, 02:26 PM
Given that that is virtually the side that Francis took from 2nd to 10th,
I fear the answer is no :confused:

Boris the charltonhater
09-07-2002, 02:31 PM
woo-hoo, no more signings. We might have a chance of promotion after all. Let's hope we decide not to sign anyone during the season.

BUNGLE
09-07-2002, 02:32 PM
I'm not convinced that if we play 2 out and out wingers we need a creative central midfielder.

Clapham Grand
09-07-2002, 02:37 PM
We still need a decent 3rd striker

Will S
09-07-2002, 02:37 PM
Jordan is not skint, but Palace might very well be - there's a difference.
And if Palace are being prudent whether by choice or by necessity, then that's got to be better than signing players we can't afford (been there got the Administrator's t-shirt)
Does anyone still really expect Palace to spend money on a creative midfielder ?
Perhaps a modest investment after a major sale, but certainly not before.
The Butterfield signing demonstrates our range these days, but as other threads have pointed out recently - there's nothing wrong with that.
Am I the onlyone to get a bit of a shiver watching Harry Redknapp throwing money around like there's no tomorrow at Pompey ? Perhaps Mandaric can afford it, perhaps Portsmouth FC can afford it... but when I see a First Division club contemplating paying Ginola 30,000 a week... it almost makes Akinbiyi look like a snip.

Almost.

Lee B
09-07-2002, 02:38 PM
One of the main reasons we struggled after Xmas last season was because both of the centre halfs got injured. If we can keep them fit (and with the improvements to the squad) I would expect that side to finish somewhere near the play-offs.

Son of Selhurst
09-07-2002, 02:38 PM
I think the ITV digital debacle has showed that teams can't just throw money at the problems and will have to start improving on what they have already.

A lot of division one teams have had to let their players go to stay alive. At least we don't have to do that (yet).

The only thing I don't understand is why we need a third goalkeeper......

WorthingEagle
09-07-2002, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by BUNGLE
I'm not convinced that if we play 2 out and out wingers we need a creative central midfielder.

one that can control & pass the ball properly would be nice though.

Mullins has the technique but is equally as likely to put the ball out of play than find a teammate, his concentration is often lacking.

It would be ok if we had two wingers like Wolves who can cross the ball properly and consistently, but ours are so erratic, if they don't perform we don't create anything.

I can't see that team getting in the top 6, it's solid enough but there's no real exception quality that it takes to stand out in this league. But then it's no worse than WBA's team from last year, except they had a real driving force in midfield with McInnes.

OKnotOK
09-07-2002, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Stubby
Will there be a place for Rubins/Black. I would like to see Andrej given a chance, but I feel Palace need a tough/govener type midfielder, mmmm like mmmmm Jamie Pollock !!!!:o (someone who can kick ass - well the other team's ass !!!)

I'd like to see Andrej given a chance as well but can't see him starting ahead of Gray. And Francis has said that he will start Butterfield (injuries permitting) on right midfield which will mean no place for Black.

I actually think it is a good side. But I am concerned that we still lack the creative midfielder that the team is crying out for. Especially if we aren't going to play 2 natural wingers.

Who Cares?
09-07-2002, 02:53 PM
If this report is true then it is rather disappointing, but if economics dictate this then we have to live with it. With Kirovski & Rodger gone, Berhalter & Austin available for transfer it does make the squad look even more thin.

One concern is whether we will be able to strengthen during the season. Can anyone tell me what the position is re a transfer window? Saw some comments last week from a manager of a newly promoted premership side saying that after 31 August no tfrs will be permitted until January and then only for a short period. Does this apply to the nationwide league?

Justy C
09-07-2002, 02:57 PM
An on form midfield of Black-Aki-Mullins-Gray should be creative enough, add Granville joining in and it doesn't look too bad. I agree, a central playmaker with 2 wide men might mean we get over run a little.

bald-eagle
09-07-2002, 04:36 PM
The side above is pretty bog standard 1st division fayre. I expect francis is relying on Mullins to be our "new" creative midfielder, although I have yet to be convinced of his ability when playing central midfield. The weak, IMO, is Riihilahti. He concedes too many free kicks, is often out of position and his distribution, in the second half of the year, wasn't good enough.

Any half decent side needs a good spine to it. In Clarke,Symons/Popovic and Morrison/Freedman we certainly have anything as good as anyone else in this division but, and it's been said ad nauseum, the midfield is the weakest link. The real problem lies in getting someone who is available, someone whos' tried and tested but still not on the career slide, who's within our budget.

A good overall squad is only a couple of signings away.....Please trev, go and find them.

Cleon
09-07-2002, 04:37 PM
Given that other clubs have shed more players, I don't see the reason for such depression (other than the continuing the presence of Trevor, about which we can do nothing). I don't know about Butterfield, but that team is capable of winning games in this division. My concern would be what would happen if we had injuries, but I suppose that the six youth players who've signed pro-contracts will have to prove their worth when called on to fill in.

Kolinko
Smith Austin Berthalter Harrison
Black Hopkin Thomson Rubins
Kabba Akinbiyi

Aghhh!

Raoul Duke
09-07-2002, 05:30 PM
Nobody posting on these boards wants a repeat of the financial troubles our club has exerienced.

If keeping our squad lean and mean, albeit in the First Division, means survival and security then so be it.

Who knows what the future may bring. Mullins, Gray, Black and Rubins are all young players who could develop into the types of players we need for success. :p

Celestial Empire
09-07-2002, 05:47 PM
Yeah, and TF is quite good at putting people off the scent about transfers - maybe he's stalking someone.
I don't see this as "bog standard 1st Div fayre", it's much better than that, and as someone said, we should expect improvement from the younger players.

My doubt is whether TF can inspire them to fly.

09-07-2002, 06:08 PM
Initially I thought that this report, if true, was fair enough. However;
when you realise that the start of the season is on 10th August and the transfer window closes 3 weeks later on 31st - does this actually mean no more signings in 2002?

If so it could prove to be is a blunder of (even for TF and Mr Flash)staggering proportions.

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/fart.gif

Beanie
09-07-2002, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Cleon

Kolinko
Smith Austin Berthalter Harrison
Black Hopkin Thomson Rubins
Kabba Akinbiyi

Aghhh!

We may not get promoted - but there would be worse teams in Div 1 than that.

I'd be tempted to play Antwi instead of Austin, push black inside for Hopkin and play Routledge wide. Might even slip in Williams in place of Kabba. :p

We could play that team against Moan Utd reserves if we get them in the Worthington. If for no other reason but they would be so insulted!:D

bald-eagle
09-07-2002, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
I don't see this as "bog standard 1st Div fayre", it's much better than that, and as someone said, we should expect improvement from the younger players.

That's the crux of the issue. Can the players reach a consistency of performance that is expected of them? Last year they certainly didn't (with the exception of the early run) perform as the should have been able to.

There's a lot to be said for putting in consistent performances, even if they don't quite reach the heights we want them to. If the manager knows what he's going to get each week it's far easier to improve upon. When players like Gray, Rubins, Black and Mullins, for example, perform fine one week and poor the next what chance has he got? This is why to my mind the players must take a fair share of responsibility for last season. Even allowing for TF's playing around with formations etc players didn't always show the level of individual performance that they should have done.

Streatham man
09-07-2002, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by bald-eagle
The side above is pretty bog standard 1st division fayre. I expect francis is relying on Mullins to be our "new" creative midfielder, although I have yet to be convinced of his ability when playing central midfield. The weak, IMO, is Riihilahti. He concedes too many free kicks, is often out of position and his distribution, in the second half of the year, wasn't good enough.

Any half decent side needs a good spine to it. In Clarke,Symons/Popovic and Morrison/Freedman we certainly have anything as good as anyone else in this division but, and it's been said ad nauseum, the midfield is the weakest link. The real problem lies in getting someone who is available, someone whos' tried and tested but still not on the career slide, who's within our budget.

A good overall squad is only a couple of signings away.....Please trev, go and find them.

Good comments. If finances are an issue, doesn't it make you wish we had held on to the several million quid we spent on Akinbiyi and used it for a creative midfielder?

Streatham man
09-07-2002, 06:39 PM
By the way, I do think Mullins has the potential to develop into a solid, forceful, somewhat creative midfielder.

sydnsteve
09-07-2002, 07:20 PM
I also think Mullins is best in midfield, and would do a god job there. But he has to be played there and LEFT there, not moved about all over the place like last season. He has said himself that he needs to settle into a position.

mark ambler
09-07-2002, 07:30 PM
maybe Francis will add to the squad with loan signings??

This could be a more used method of strenghtening the squad without expending too much money. with Ade out until November a young player froma top club may come in to sit on the bench and get 15 - 20 mins a game rather than us outlaying money on a fourth striker?

New_Malden_Eagle
09-07-2002, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by mark ambler
maybe Francis will add to the squad with loan signings??

I was thinking that.
Does the transfer injunction from Aug 31st to the end of the year cover loan sigings as well? If either Morrison or Freedman got injured before Ade came back we could be screwed otherwise.

bald-eagle
09-07-2002, 08:00 PM
Is the transfer window system operating now or has it yet to be ratified by the league? I seem to remember the League putting in an objection to FIFA saying that it would be seriously detrimental to it's members.

I'm not too keen on loan signings being regular 1st team members unless they're on season long loans. Short term loans are often too disruptive to the long term development of the team, although I do apreciate the injury aspect etc etc.


I agree with sydnsteve in that if Mullins is to develop into the midfield player we all hope, he has to be allowed a good run in the position even if he doesn't set the world on fire to start with.

Latvian Eagle
09-07-2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by New_Malden_Eagle
Does the transfer injunction from Aug 31st to the end of the year cover loan sigings as well? If either Morrison or Freedman got injured before Ade came back we could be screwed otherwise.

If it's the same as the method used in Spain then loan signings will not be allowed whilst the transfer window is closed. Only in an emergency do I think we'd be allowed to loan..... e.g.


Akinbiyi is injured
Morrison breaks his leg
Freedman comes down with the ebola virus
Kabba is arrested for drug possession
Williams is eaten by a shark


Of course these are a bit extreme but you get what I'm hinting at. :D

Beanie
09-07-2002, 08:38 PM
Don't think the transfer window was due to come in this year in any case. Still under discussion, but if it does arrive I believe it covers ALL transactions - loan as well. I believe that's why loans from abroad tend to be for six months (like Carasso) or the whole season - they can't go back anyway.

kolinkins
09-07-2002, 10:10 PM
the transfer window is in place - and does include loan signings.
secondly, i just read an interview by SJ on the regional pages of teletext. he said that we were not a selling club, he is looking to buy players, and we r not one of the teams affacted by itv digital et al.

09-07-2002, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle


If it's the same as the method used in Spain then loan signings will not be allowed whilst the transfer window is closed. Only in an emergency do I think we'd be allowed to loan..... e.g.


Akinbiyi is injured
Morrison breaks his leg
Freedman comes down with the ebola virus
Kabba is arrested for drug possession
Williams is eaten by a shark


Of course these are a bit extreme but you get what I'm hinting at. :D

I'm sorry to say but I think you are wrong. Emergency signings permissable during the closed transfer window are to provide for circumstances such as if you have ALL of your goalkeepers injured (normal illnesses don't count) and even then you have to make a case to the League.
http://www.plauder-smilies.de/fart.gif

Neckinger Eagle
10-07-2002, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by Cleon
Kolinko
Smith Austin Berthalter Harrison
Black Hopkin Thomson Rubins
Kabba Akinbiyi



I have spotted the deliberate mistake and claim my prize! This is 4-4-2 and Mr Francis never plays 4-4-2 in the first half, if at any point during the match. Surely it will be...

Kolinko
Austin
Berhalter Harrison
Smith Black
Hopkin Thomson Rubins Kabba Akinbiyi

This looks much like a Francis formation??? And you can stand it on it's side and it still looks like a francis formation???

Seriously, though. The signing of Butterfield hardly makes my heart quicken with expectation. I can't even put a face to him. Oh joy, a Grimsby player. I hope he is a wonderkind but I'm already having to put up with "butterfingers" jokes in my office. And he's not even a goalie.

pedro
10-07-2002, 03:08 AM
When will Francis realise that Mullins is not a midfield player. He can read the game and is a great defender, probably the best we have, but his distribution is diabolical, without doubt it is the worse part of his game. If the central midfield consists of Aki and Hayden we have two guys that will win the ball and then give it straight back to the opposition. There is no point in using Gray, who is nothing more than a winger, if the ball is never going to reach him. If Francis can be convinced to play a 3-5-2 formation then he would be better paying Mullins behind Symons and Popovic, Flemming or Butterfield on the right, Granville or Gray on the right, Aki (to hold) Tommy (to break forward) and +1 (creative player) in the middle with Clinton and Dougie up front. This would look a far stronger line up.

Pete B
10-07-2002, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by Neckinger Eagle


Seriously, though. The signing of Butterfield hardly makes my heart quicken with expectation. I can't even put a face to him. Oh joy, a Grimsby player. I hope he is a wonderkind but I'm already having to put up with "butterfingers" jokes in my office. And he's not even a goalie.

Typical Palace fan - just because he's from Grimsby for little/no fee he can't be any good. Did you say the same about :

Thomas/Pemberton from Crewe
Bright from Leicester reserves
Redfearn from Doncaster
Gray from Dulwich Hamlet
McGoldrick from Northampton
Coleman from Swansea
Collymore from Stafford Rangers

the list goes on.

Let's just wait and see what he's like. He may well be in the Harrison league but he's a fresh face and as there won't be many new signings this pre-season, I am looking forward to seeing him in action.

CPFC_R_GREAT
10-07-2002, 03:51 AM
apologies for my stupidness but i have been away where the sodding hell has Jovan gone/going was it an out of contract thing?

Neckinger Eagle
10-07-2002, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by Pete B


Typical Palace fan - just because he's from Grimsby for little/no fee he can't be any good. Did you say the same about :

Thomas/Pemberton from Crewe
Bright from Leicester reserves
Redfearn from Doncaster
Gray from Dulwich Hamlet
McGoldrick from Northampton
Coleman from Swansea
Collymore from Stafford Rangers

the list goes on.



Without needing a safety net I could probably name a good 15 Grimsby players from last season, and tell you who they played for beforehand. As a football anorak, I take an interest in lower league football, I'm not your normal only-interested-in-one-team mug you know! To suggest that I am saying "just because he's from Grimsby for little/no fee he can't be any good" is rather more of a sweeping statement than anything I have said!

OK, had you heard of him? Can you tell me what reputation he has got? Are the Grimsby fans crying in their beer at the loss of the next Cafu? are there mass suicides in the vicinity of Cleethorpes? (without looking him up on the internet?) I think you'll find their more bothered that they have only got between 12-15 professionals signed up for the new season thatn the loss of Butterfield.

I sincerely hope that he is a revalation, but the only players to set the world alight at Grimsby recently have been Boulding (and he's just gone to Villa) and Groves, and he's their manager!

In these days of multimedia communications, good players don't remain anonymous in the lower leagues. On these boards we have had discussions about Evans, Owusu, Greenacre, Townson, Foran... but never Butterfield. Have you ever seen Butterfield mentioned as a bright young thing in any newspaper, football magazine, website, on TV...? Bradley Allen gets more coverage then Butterfield!

Let's be realistic, if we are to buy players for promotion we should be buying proven quality, not relative unknowns. That's why I argued in the past that Evans and Owusu weren't right for us. The fact that you mention the players brought in by Coppell when he was rebuilding the squad from rubble as a comparison to our new signing just shows how our expectations have dropped. We used to be in the Premiership, you know.

I just find it very sad. We once signed Atillio Lombardo...

Beanie
10-07-2002, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Pete B


Typical Palace fan - just because he's from Grimsby for little/no fee he can't be any good. Did you say the same about :

Thomas/Pemberton from Crewe
Bright from Leicester reserves
Redfearn from Doncaster
Gray from Dulwich Hamlet
McGoldrick from Northampton
Coleman from Swansea
Collymore from Stafford Rangers

the list goes on.



Might I also add -

Ian Wright from Greenwich Borough
Simon Rodger from Bognor Regis Town
Nigel Martyn from Bristol Rovers.

Main point has been picked up by Kolinkins - Mr Jordan expects us to buy, and not to sell Clinton despite TV cash. True or not he would now find it hard to blame the TV cash problems for any sales / lack of signings as some have anticipated.

Cleon
10-07-2002, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by pedro
When will Francis realise that Mullins is not a midfield player. He can read the game and is a great defender, probably the best we have, but his distribution is diabolical, without doubt it is the worse part of his game. If the central midfield consists of Aki and Hayden we have two guys that will win the ball and then give it straight back to the opposition.

Whilst I think that Mullins looks excellent as the third defender (that moves up when attacking) in a back three, if we are going to be playing a flat back four (and we are), then Mullins is clearly best in midfield. As has been pointed out earlier, her needs to be moved there and stay there. If given license to roam, he can cause defenders all sorts of problems. How many key passes has he played into the feet of Morrison/Freedman last season, which led to a goal? When he was last used as an offensive midfielder he scored 10 goals from midfield (although I recognise that 3 or 4 of those were from the penalty spot).

Steve C
10-07-2002, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Cleon


Whilst I think that Mullins looks excellent as the third defender (that moves up when attacking) in a back three, if we are going to be playing a flat back four (and we are), then Mullins is clearly best in midfield. As has been pointed out earlier, her needs to be moved there and stay there. If given license to roam, he can cause defenders all sorts of problems. How many key passes has he played into the feet of Morrison/Freedman last season, which led to a goal? When he was last used as an offensive midfielder he scored 10 goals from midfield (although I recognise that 3 or 4 of those were from the penalty spot).
I totaly agree with above lets hope for a settled formation, a with our players knowing their jobs and being motivated. Is it too much to ask for?????

Celestial Empire
10-07-2002, 04:59 PM
If TF should read this :rolleyes: I hope he realises that all this renewed hope at the start of the season, is a fragile thing ..... and will blow away with the dandelions at the first TF "tactical innovation", stupid substitution, or change from the Morrison/Freedman pairing.

Beanie
10-07-2002, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Neckinger Eagle
I just find it very sad. We once signed Atillio Lombardo...

We once signed David Anselm, Trevor Aylott and ( fill in your own choice) - what does that prove?.

Ralph
10-07-2002, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Neckinger Eagle


Have you ever seen Butterfield mentioned as a bright young thing in any newspaper, football magazine, website, on TV...? Bradley Allen gets more coverage then Butterfield!

I just find it very sad. We once signed Atillio Lombardo...

Butterfield was actually the focus of an article in 4-4-2 magazine a while a go, I believe it even made some mention of the Cleethorpes Cafu but I may be wrong.

...and we also signed Herman that same season we signed Lombardo, had you heard of him?

To be honest though I agree with what your saying, people on here just like to be pedantic for the sake of it. I also get the impression that our big summer signing is only going to be Butterfield and it is somewhat depressing. Still, with a full strength squad I think we can match anyone in this League so lets save the money for injuries etc etc. The thing is sense is nt something that is common in football anymore.

Streatham man
10-07-2002, 06:48 PM
It is tough to see the traitor Bruce -- working for a club many places below us for most of the season -- moving into the prem and buying players like Senegal's Cisse and with the intention to buy a dynamic striker.

Ruskin Old Boy
10-07-2002, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Streatham man
It is tough to see the traitor Bruce -- working for a club many places below us for most of the season -- moving into the prem and buying players like Senegal's Cisse and with the intention to buy a dynamic striker.

Yes...:(