PDA

View Full Version : Are we about to lose Mullins ?


Pages : [1] 2

wookiee
16-08-2002, 03:40 PM
This is from today's Independent:

"The Birmingham City manager, Steve Bruce, is making a 2.2m bid for Crystal Palace's Hayden Mullins. Bruce opened talks with his former emloyers about taking the versatile Mullins and making him the third former Eagle to leave for St Andrews after Clinton Morrison and Jovan Kirovski."

There was a point last year when we all wondered if the Palace side was good enough to play in the Premiership. I don't suppose anyone thought it would happen quite like this, though.

Jordan's Jacket
16-08-2002, 03:43 PM
I think that might be close to a reasonable price.

Latvian
16-08-2002, 03:45 PM
So thats why he cant pass for sh!t he's got something else on his mind?!?!

David of Kent
16-08-2002, 03:47 PM
If the money was used to strengthen the squad I'd be happy to take it :p

Will S
16-08-2002, 03:47 PM
Oh..that'll go down well with all concerned then...

Neil, yes, another one!
16-08-2002, 03:48 PM
snap their bloody hands off....

boxing francis
16-08-2002, 03:49 PM
thats it im fed up with bruce, why does he need to poach our players, the only player id let bruce sign from us is austin :veryangry :sob: :o :grrr:

Tor
16-08-2002, 03:51 PM
Make it 2m, and add Bryan Hughes to the deal.
Then I would go for it.

Del Boy
16-08-2002, 03:52 PM
Personally, I'd take 2.2M for Mullins. I think he needs to make the move for his owen career. He isn't progressing in line with his talent and potential, although partly he's become a victim of his own versatility. Frankly, playing left side midfield and putting in a one-footed right foot performance made him quite ineffective against Bradford.

I think it's time to cash in and bring in a couple of new, young players to beef up midfield further. I certainly hope we wouldn't blow massive amounts on wages for Dennis Wise, although if he could be got within the wage structure, I have a suspicion that if he stayed fit and applied himself (big questions) Wise may prove a good buy for a year (like Ince and Irwin for Wolves or Merson for Portsmouth) as part of an attempt to get out of Div 1 (at the top end, I hasten to add!).

Gooders
16-08-2002, 03:52 PM
I wish I could say that I was surprised at this rumour.

2.2 million sounds more than fair to me.

Will Bruce ever again show any imagination in his transfer dealings?

That warning off that SJ did when Bruce first departed has obviously worked a treat then? :rolleyes:

Beanie
16-08-2002, 03:56 PM
If this is true get Mullins up there as fast as poss and grab the cash, it's a great offer - far better than the one we got for Clinton. I would have thought that this was a good price when the market was high, now it's excellent!

Bet it's not true though.

Neil, yes, another one!
16-08-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
That warning off that SJ did when Bruce first departed has obviously worked a treat then? :rolleyes:

money talks, Gooders....

northernsouler
16-08-2002, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Gooders

That warning off that SJ did when Bruce first departed has obviously worked a treat then? [/B]

Exactly. Could it be that Bruce has extra leverage on SJ because he is privy to SJ's finances OR LACK OF ?

Mendosa
16-08-2002, 03:58 PM
Absolutely bite their hands off.

Mullins has been woeful of late (not helped by being played in midfield where I don't like him - I much prefer him sweeping up at the back). On Tuesday night he was dreadful.

Jordan should laugh all the way to the bank if he gets that much.

James
16-08-2002, 04:02 PM
I agree - that seems like an excellent price in today's market.

My only reservation is the fact that the sale seems to have come a week or so too late - as I settled my 50 bet with Pete Eagle on Tuesday (as I recklessly forecast that both Morrison and Mullins would be gone before the start of the Season).

Justy C
16-08-2002, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Tor
Make it 2m, and add Bryan Hughes to the deal.
Then I would go for it.

That would be one hell of a deal.

Mullins is a dilemma, I actually rate him but the problem is we don't know how to use him. As a result he never settles in a position and we keep seeing the average performances. I would be sorry to see him go but if we could get a deal like the one mentioned by Tor then it would be good business.

wedgetail
16-08-2002, 04:08 PM
Take the money and replace him with someone we know how to use.

biggus mickus
16-08-2002, 04:09 PM
Is it true then?
Bite his hand off.

PeterH
16-08-2002, 04:10 PM
I think Mullins is worth a little bit more than that, but I don't want to sell him to Bruce. This whole Brum Palace saga is getting too much. I hear people telling us to let it go, but they will not leave us alone.

For fecks sake do not sell Mullins to pay Wises wages. Other transfers of the ilk seen this pre season yes, or towards a ground building/buying pot PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

We have two weeks to go before this cherry picking ends.

Gark Moldberg
16-08-2002, 04:11 PM
I'd rather it wasn't brum this is the best news I've heard all week. It seems as though Mullins is lacking enthusiasm for the game (or at least the way he plays it suggests it) and he needs a new challenge elsewhere.

It's sad, but the time (and the suggested fee) is right.

firesign
16-08-2002, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by wedgetail
Take the money and replace him with someone we know how to use.

Yeah - like Kelly Brook or Rachel Stevens :o

(Actually, I agree with those who think it would be a good deal for both parties - although Bruce is still a stupid knobhead :grrr: )

wookiee
16-08-2002, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Justy C
Mullins is a dilemma, I actually rate him but the problem is we don't know how to use him. As a result he never settles in a position and we keep seeing the average performances.

I'm quite surprised by the number of people who would be happy to see him go. Del Boy made the point that Mullins should move for his own career prospects. I agree, but I'll be sad for Palace if he goes. I'd go along with both Del Boy and Justy C when they say we haven't seen Hayden's best in the recent past but, as they both identify, his versatility has played against him.

But that versatility is the very reason I'm worried about him leaving. How much will it cost to replace him adequately? We'll need to buy two or three players to know we've covered his loss - one in defence, one in the centre of midfield and one on the flanks, possibly.

Hayden leaving will weaken the squad considerably, and the money spent on acquiring and then paying replacements will mean that, to me, a 2.2m transfer fee won't be a great piece of business.

Sleeping Giant
16-08-2002, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Del Boy
Personally, I'd take 2.2M for Mullins. I think he needs to make the move for his owen career. He isn't progressing in line with his talent and potential, although partly he's become a victim of his own versatility. Frankly, playing left side midfield and putting in a one-footed right foot performance made him quite ineffective against Bradford.

I think it's time to cash in and bring in a couple of new, young players to beef up midfield further. I certainly hope we wouldn't blow massive amounts on wages for Dennis Wise

My sentiments entirely :p

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 04:17 PM
If Derry is worth 400k, then Bruce is overpaying to the tune of 2m, so bite his bloody hand off.

fieldy
16-08-2002, 04:28 PM
Again I appear in the minority but I really don't want Mullins to go, not even for 2 million which I don't think is that good a price, where is this excellent young midfield talent that we will be able to replace him with then? please tell me, and anyway I am sick to death now of this f*ckin bent nosed parasite, is he on some kind of mission to become the most detested man ever in Croydon???:veryangry

PeterH
16-08-2002, 04:28 PM
Sorry Jaffa cannot agree with that.

Why are we all so keen to sell our heros all of a sudden, okay heroe may be a bit strong. A bit of fantasy football and a bit of BBS and we are all happy to be a selling clb all of a sudden. I was of the impression thats what us fans hated about our club most, especially under Uncle Ron.

Fair play that perhaps in the current 1st division we can bring in good players on the cheap for this money. I reckon somewhere there is a gem of a player in Mullins, like there was in Southgate (I keep saying that but it doesn't make the comment wrong).

Tough call 2.2m, but if he goes lets have it in cash eh. If Brum cannot afford to buy him they shouldn't be bidding and unsettling our squad, thats what they did with Steve Bruce until they were forced to stump up compensation.

Panzer
16-08-2002, 04:30 PM
Mullins is wasting ours and his own time! we should take the offer if its there, but as we all seem keen to get rid of him it just wont happen! :hmph:

16-08-2002, 04:37 PM
Sorry Hayden, but it really is time to go.

6.45m for 2 players, who only cost us their training and who saved our bacon during the administration, will be their final donation to the cause and very welcome.

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/fart.gif

Martin H
16-08-2002, 04:40 PM
I agree with the mass here. We should let him go.

He isn't big enough to play in a TF defence and on balance I agree with Trev.

He isn't strong enough in midfield (skill wise) and he still has a tendency for sloppy passing and mistakes.

He needs to play as the sweeper in a back three but he isn't big enough. On his day he'll murder teams but not every week so . . . . .

Take the money and run. ".5m would have been a better price but in today's market?

Quite like the idea of taking Bryan Hughes off Brucie's hands during the deal but . . . . head for the bank w'or Jordan man.

lees eagles
16-08-2002, 04:42 PM
If you want proof of the fact that football is changing rapidly, look at the price Portsmouth are looking to pay for Marcus Stewart - 1m. This is a player who scored 21 goals for Ipswich in the premier!!

This to me shows high transfer fees are a thing of the past for players in this division.

Daddy Long
16-08-2002, 04:42 PM
Never thought I'd say it but for that money he can go. He's only got a year left on his contract? I would definitely be enquiring as to the availability of Hughes though

lees eagles
16-08-2002, 04:45 PM
I think Bryan Hughes is in their first team, or is certainly an integral part of their squad, so the chances of him joining would be almost zero!!

arussell
16-08-2002, 04:54 PM
I have mixed feelings about this, I'm not whether Mullins leaving would be good or bad.

It's a reasonable price for the player if true - but Birmingham supposedly do not have any more money to spend, and if they want him - they'll have to move fast (I still think they're certs for relegation regardless of if they sign Mullins or not).

For us - Mullins certainly has not grown or improved as I would have hoped during the last few seasons, but I also put this down to the fact that he is continually played in different positions all the time. Playing him in his best place (central defence) would benefit us and him, and would make sure he improved as a player. At the moment his passing is lazy and inaccurate.

If 2.2 would bring us in the creative midfielder we're crying out for - then I'd be for it.

I have to also say I am continually amazed at the laziness of certain manager's - who rather than scout around properly and do their job, can only keep returning to clubs they've previously been at, to get their players (Hi Dave Bassett).

Lords Eagle
16-08-2002, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Panzer
Mullins is wasting ours and his own time! we should take the offer if its there, but as we all seem keen to get rid of him it just wont happen! :hmph:

Not all of us want to get rid of him, I'd like him to stay.

MAX
16-08-2002, 04:55 PM
I'd be very sorry to see him go.He is a very talented footballer.However,I agree that he is far from consistent,but is this his fault?How would you like to have your responsibilities constantly changed where you work?

Latvian
16-08-2002, 04:59 PM
On his form his main assest is his versatilty with Symons and Popo getting injured every ten seconds we could do with some cover at the back, he was average at right back great at centre-back/sweeper but is very poor in Midfield.

Derry, Aki, Wise?, Butterfield - we've got tons of similar Midfielders to him. 2.2mil for a player like this is a good deal, then we can finally get this creative midfielder!

THE ONLY WAY IS UP!!!

PeterH
16-08-2002, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Lords Eagle


Not all of us want to get rid of him, I'd like him to stay.

Yep. :p I can smell a poll coming on, Jaffa you are not allowed to set it up.

Walrus
16-08-2002, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Bumgas
Sorry Hayden, but it really is time to go.

6.45m for 2 players, who only cost us their training and who saved our bacon during the administration, will be their final donation to the cause and very welcome.

http://www.plauder-smilies.de/fart.gif

Hear hear Bumgas. Let's not forget Hayden's contribution over the years to Palace.

Still, 2.2 million is a good price and we should take it if there is any truth to the rumour. I'd settle for 1.5mil plus Bryan Hughes mind you !

DANGERMOUSE
16-08-2002, 05:04 PM
2.2m is a fair price in the current market. I think Mullins is plays his best as a sweeper, but since we seldom play him there, I don't think he would be missed by the team too much. Having said that, I think he has been a credit to Palace for years, and if he does go (even to Brum) I think he'll retain a lot of affection from the fans.

Ralph
16-08-2002, 05:11 PM
I have to say after the Morrison money was spent so wisely Im not too bothered about selling Mullins for this fee if it is reinvested. I admit Mullins has nt been on top of his game lately but I get the feeling the move to Brum would do him the world of good and could make him into the player he has promised to be for so long.

If we sold him for 2.2 then bought say Wise and Bryan Hughes I think we would have done some good business.

Even without buying anyone new we could a team of:

Clarke

Fleming
Granville
Symons
Popovic
Powell

Gray
Derry
Butterfield

AJ
Freedman

In my eyes, and Im prepared to be shot down, I dont think Mullins could fit into that lot anyway. But like I say I think we would see a different Mullins if he got this move, he has become stale at Palace and would relish the challenge. good Luck to him cos in 5 years time we'll be saying "we found him"!

nookiebear
16-08-2002, 05:11 PM
A good price, take it. Bite of Bruce's hand for it. And arm if need be.

Ironically, I think Mullins' 'casual' play is probably more suited to the Prem, anyway.

He's not progressed as much as I thought he would

sunshine lucas
16-08-2002, 05:14 PM
Not a disaster - but Mr Bruce is really beginning to get on my t*ts.
How long before Popovic gets the call from wonknose?
Is Craig Harrison safe?
And - as for the Kirovski deal - if I hear Brucey quoted one more time that he's got such a steal and that Jovan was the dog's testicles in Man Utd's youth team back in 1973 I shall puke.
There. Stick that up your Harrod's lettuce.

Gooders
16-08-2002, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by MAX
How would you like to have your responsibilities constantly changed where you work?

I do.

But when I complain I just get a clip round the ear and told to get on with it.

:sob:

mikestock
16-08-2002, 05:21 PM
I doubt whether this is true as alreadt stated birmingham have spent their budget.

but if it is true then sell mullins and but koumas with the proceeds.

then we have the goal scoring creative midfielder everyone craves

Beanie
16-08-2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by MAX
I'd be very sorry to see him go.He is a very talented footballer.However,I agree that he is far from consistent,but is this his fault?How would you like to have your responsibilities constantly changed where you work?

There is some truth here, but it seems to me that his flexibility is his undoing. 5 managers wouldn't move him around if he could really make a role his own. He is pretty good in several places, but lacks little bit to make him automatic first choice in any of them. It is nobodys fault that he lacks the physical presence to make the position he is technically best suited to (centre of a back 3) his own.

If he goes it will be sad, but to my mind not as sad as losing Clinton, who had achieved more, or Jolly who showed at least as much commitment, but was treated worse.

Neil, yes, another one!
16-08-2002, 05:34 PM
Bruce is deffo after another midfielder... from BBC on-line:

Birmingham manager Steve Bruce is giving a week's trial to former Derby skipper Darryl Powell.
Powell is out of contract with the Rams and is trying to earn a contract with the Premiership newcomers.

Bruce has brought in five players this summer including record signing Clinton Morrison and Robbie Savage - but still feels his squad could be stretched if they encounter any more injury problems.

He said: "We've got Darryl Powell at the moment for a week. He didn't get fixed up in the summer and he's got a great deal of experience.

"He is training with us and we will see what happens and how he looks but he has come with us with a view to trying to earn a contract before the transfer window shuts.

"We have spent a lot of money this summer, not only in transfer fees but also in wages to bring in players we feel can help us in the Premiership.

"But this week we've got two suspended and two injured and if you added in another couple of absentees it would become difficult for us in terms of numbers."

Latvian
16-08-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Neil, yes, another one!
Bruce is deffo after another midfielder... from BBC on-line:

Birmingham manager Steve Bruce is giving a week's trial to former Derby skipper Darryl Powell.
Powell is out of contract with the Rams and is trying to earn a contract with the Premiership newcomers.

Bruce has brought in five players this summer including record signing Clinton Morrison and Robbie Savage - but still feels his squad could be stretched if they encounter any more injury problems.

He said: "We've got Darryl Powell at the moment for a week. He didn't get fixed up in the summer and he's got a great deal of experience.

"He is training with us and we will see what happens and how he looks but he has come with us with a view to trying to earn a contract before the transfer window shuts.

"We have spent a lot of money this summer, not only in transfer fees but also in wages to bring in players we feel can help us in the Premiership.

"But this week we've got two suspended and two injured and if you added in another couple of absentees it would become difficult for us in terms of numbers."

Prob wont be long til he goes after DARREN Powell! :veryangry

hairy beasts
16-08-2002, 05:39 PM
I've always been a big fan of HM although I dont think he is as versatile as others have stated, in central defence he is very good at full back reasonable and in midfield inconsistant.
2.2m is excellent money in today's market and I trust TF to spend it wisely(no pun intended) I wont be suprised if he goes as it's been on the cards since his good mate CM left.We might as well cash in now rather than let him go on a bosman in the summer.
David Gold the brum chairman sad a few weeks ago they were already 6m over budget (not a problem for his fat wallet) and will probably be happy to add another 2.2 to that figure.
I am p1ssed off with brum nicking our longer serving and better players but if it's part of SJ and TF restructuring the clubs finances to managable levels then so be it.
And we can laugh at them next year when brum are relugated have massive debts and need to sell.(fingers crossed everyone)

Gazza2
16-08-2002, 05:50 PM
Would explain why we have been talking to Wise.
Good price, so let's take it. Sad to see him go. Have a feeling that there is more to coem from him and he will blossom into a really top class player in next few years (has been treading water for last 2 seasons). Like the fact he has spent summer bulking up after being laughted at about Sturridge in game at our place over his lack of physique (incident which happened right in front of me).

Latvian Eagle
16-08-2002, 05:53 PM
I say we take the 2.2m and put in a cheeky bid of 2m for Marcus Stewart. He's unhappy at not being regular at Ipswich. What's the worst that could happen? We get rejected... Oh well la de da, that's football. That way we could loan out Steve Kabba, (as was originally intended) and have five strikers battling for the first team (four whilst Akinbiyi is out).

markholmes1991
16-08-2002, 06:01 PM
I think Marcus Stewart would be a perfect foil for Doogie, but i can't see it happening. A chap I work with off editorial, who knew off him, said he's not a particularly pleasant guy. He severely effected the team morale at Ipswich at the back end of last season.
Mullins is always steady, but he often looks like he needs a kick up the backside. Obviously Bruce knows Mullins well from his brief stay, and although people won't like this I trust Bruce's judgement on players and although the moneys good in todays market would rather Mullins remain at SE25

Barcaeagle
16-08-2002, 06:15 PM
Well in my opinion it is about time that Hayden left. Looking at his recent performances and infact most performances in recent times, his mind or skill has not been there. His best position is defo. sweeping up at the back,but he is neither the strong holding or gifted passer in the midfield that we need. We should cash in on Bruce's smuggness in trying to rub salt into our clubs wounds and taking our clubs "best" players.
We should either bring in a tried and tested Midlfield general like a Merson or even a 'sane' Wise , a talented youngster from the reserves or at least someone with the hunger to help Palace get promoted. We have too many players at our club without the hunger that is required, and just happy to rot in the reserves. I think around 2m is a fair price for a fair 1st division and a poor Premiership Midlfield player.SELL SELL SELL:)

Gooders
16-08-2002, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
I say we take the 2.2m and put in a cheeky bid of 2m for Marcus Stewart. He's unhappy at not being regular at Ipswich.

One of my sons schoolmates is Marcus Stewart's cousin.

He says he hates it at Ipswich and always has done - he can't stand Burley apparently.

elgin eagle
16-08-2002, 06:31 PM
I can't believe Stewart could be available for 2m. His Premiership scoring ratio speaks for itself. We should offer Mullins directly to Ipswich in a part ex just to pee bruce off.

lees eagles
16-08-2002, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by elgin eagle
I can't believe Stewart could be available for 2m. His Premiership scoring ratio speaks for itself. We should offer Mullins directly to Ipswich in a part ex just to pee bruce off.


Portsmouth could get him for 1m!!!

Latvian Eagle
16-08-2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by lees eagles



Portsmouth could get him for 1m!!!

I say at that price we make an offer.

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Beanie
If this is true get Mullins up there as fast as poss and grab the cash, it's a great offer - far better than the one we got for Clinton. I would have thought that this was a good price when the market was high, now it's excellent!

Bet it's not true though.

You're joking aren't u? We've sold our best player for peanuts and now you think we should let Mullins go too?! Next thing you'll be saying is that we should cash in when he comes back and offers 200,000 for Gray because he is getting close to the end of his contract! I think that the reason Bruce wants Morrison and Mullins and Gray is because he has worked with the players, knows their talents far better than we do, and therefore wants our best players. Actually I wouldnt be surprised if he came in for Popovic and Clarke as well! Especially as we're giving players away! He's no fool Bruce, and I guess you'll only realise it when B'ham stay up and we stay down!

Tor
16-08-2002, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by lees eagles



Portsmouth could get him for 1m!!!

Which makes 2.2m for Mullins sound even better!

Lambeth Palace
16-08-2002, 06:44 PM
I would definitely accept an offer of 2.2 million for Mullins and believe that TF would use the money to improve on the current squad. I sincerely hope that any money is not 'wasted' on has-beens like Wise who was dumped by Chelsea and was a complete flop at Leicester. I wonder why?

LLCOOLSTEVE
16-08-2002, 06:47 PM
Take the money, if its true, and make a bid for Andy Johnson of WBA.........

Latvian Eagle
16-08-2002, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
Take the money, if its true, and make a bid for Andy Johnson of WBA.........

What the f@ck would both Andy Johnson's have on the back of their shirts? :confused:

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan


You're joking aren't u? We've sold our best player for peanuts and now you think we should let Mullins go too?! Next thing you'll be saying is that we should cash in when he comes back and offers 200,000 for Gray because he is getting close to the end of his contract! I think that the reason Bruce wants Morrison and Mullins and Gray is because he has worked with the players, knows their talents far better than we do, and therefore wants our best players. Actually I wouldnt be surprised if he came in for Popovic and Clarke as well! Especially as we're giving players away! He's no fool Bruce, and I guess you'll only realise it when B'ham stay up and we stay down!

I see our caller from Crock O` Shitsville has returned.

Morrison wasnt sold for peanuts in todays market.

2.2m for Mullins wouldnt represent peanuts in todays market.

Do you need reminding again of the state of the transfer market, which saw Jamie Redknapp going on a free to Tottenham in the summer, Nicky Barmby going to Leeds for 2.5m etc etc.

Cleon
16-08-2002, 06:55 PM
Given the state of the transfer market, 2.2m would be a very welcome injection of cash to stabilise Crystal Palace FC.

Personally, I think Mullins is an excellent player, and as somebody else has noted, isn't it funny how it's Steve Bruce - a man who has worked with him before - who is (allegedly) trying to sign him.

It could work one of a number of ways, either we:

a> sign an excellent new YOUNG centre midfielder to replace Mullins
b> waste our money on rubbish like Dennis Wise
c> use the money to service our debt, and play Aki or Thomson

But think about it - the chances of us signing a truly good young midfielder for less than 2.2m are small. Good young centre midfielders are few and far between, especially ones that will be as committed to Palace as our young players that have come through the academy. Aki and Thomson are simply not good enough. Which means that we would almost certainly either not replace Mullins, or replace him with a weaker player, or an old-timer playing their last few years (Wise/Sherwood etc.) Whatever the merits of Johnson & Adebola, neither player is as good as Clinton Morrison.

I would rather we held onto Mullins, and hope that in this (overall) stronger team than last year, he can create the kind of partnership with Derry that we are all hoping for.

koplegend
16-08-2002, 06:56 PM
This has just been posted on TribalFootball.com - surely this cannot be happening - Mullins out/Wise in ?!?!?!?!?

Birmingham open Palace talks over Mullins
tribalfootball.com - August 17, 2002

Birmingham City are ready to offer Crystal Palace 2.2 million for striker Hayden Mullins.
Having already signed Clinton Morrison and Jovan Kirovski from Palace over the summer, Blues boss Steve Bruce is ready to return to his former club for Mullins.

Bruce has already opened talks with Palace regarding the attacker's availability.

arussell
16-08-2002, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
Take the money, if its true, and make a bid for Andy Johnson of WBA.........


No way !

That guy is after MONEY only - which is why he left Forest in the first place and now wants to move from promoted West Brom.

Not the sort of player to bring into a club.

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 07:02 PM
2.2m for Mullins - where would the cash go?

About 1m to QPR for Langley and Shittu, thats where.

Loose a midfielder cum defender who hasnt quite lived up to his early hype, and get two excellent players, one for each of Mullins' "positions"

Shittu and Powell could be the best defensive partnership Palace have ever had in 2/3yrs.

OLD BASING EAGLE
16-08-2002, 07:04 PM
If they can't get his position right how much truth in the rest of the article :hmph:

lees eagles
16-08-2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan


You're joking aren't u? We've sold our best player for peanuts and now you think we should let Mullins go too?! Next thing you'll be saying is that we should cash in when he comes back and offers 200,000 for Gray because he is getting close to the end of his contract! I think that the reason Bruce wants Morrison and Mullins and Gray is because he has worked with the players, knows their talents far better than we do, and therefore wants our best players. Actually I wouldnt be surprised if he came in for Popovic and Clarke as well! Especially as we're giving players away! He's no fool Bruce, and I guess you'll only realise it when B'ham stay up and we stay down!


If Bruce is that wonderful why don't you support Birmingham?

How can Morrison's value be "peanuts", if that was the only bid made then surely that was what he was worth!

Where is the quote from Bruce saying he wanted Gray?????

I feel really sorry for the fans still living in the 'Bruce Era' - GET OVER IT!!!!!


TREVOR FRANCIS' RED N' BLUE ARMY!!!!!:)

Gooders
16-08-2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
as somebody else has noted, isn't it funny how it's Steve Bruce - a man who has worked with him before - who is (allegedly) trying to sign him.



The same man who has just signed Jovan Kirovski for a second time. :eek:

Good call Jaffa - I'd forgotten about Langley but he's back playing now isn't he - let's go get him, now!

Andy Johnson, as ARussell points out, is only on the list because he wants some ridiculous wage increase that WBA aren't prepared to pay. No chance of us getting him, and no interest either.

Beanie
16-08-2002, 07:07 PM
About the only position he doesn't play, except 'keeper.

Great long thread about this already - merge time!!

Latvian Eagle
16-08-2002, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Originally posted by Cleon
Andy Johnson, as ARussell points out, is only on the list because he wants some ridiculous wage increase that WBA aren't prepared to pay. No chance of us getting him, and no interest either.

The reason he wants a pay increase is because it was put in his contract that if the club go up they have to re-negotiate his contract, the club are refusing to even re-negotiate. Surely a breach of the contract?

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 07:08 PM
Spend another 500k on Trond Anderson of Wimbledon as well.

Langley
Shittu
Anderson
750k

looks more appealing than:

Mullins

Cleon
16-08-2002, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
About 1m to QPR for Langley and Shittu, thats where.

I'm sure I can quote on that in a court of law, eh?

Why do people still think that players who have never proved their ability in the first division will automatically be better than what we have got? Leon McKenzie ain't good enough for Palace, but he scored 16+ goals for Peterborough last seasdon.

Shittu was nowhere near good enough for Charlton. He's found his level at QPR. What makes you think he's:

a> good enough for the First Division
b> got the ability to make the hoped for later transistion to the Premiership that he couldn't make last time?

Latvian
16-08-2002, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle


What the f@ck would both Andy Johnson's have on the back of their shirts? :confused:

Probably go to middle initials

then it would be

Crap Andy Johnson
Fast Andy Johnson

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 07:14 PM
Shittu was young at Charlton and never really given the chance. He has won many many plaudits at QPR and would be put in a similar bracket as Powell as far as 2nd Division defenders goes (went)

Langley always looked useful against us in Division One and would be worth a punt.

Mullins has hardly set the world alight for the past few seasons has he?

lees eagles
16-08-2002, 07:15 PM
Michael Brown seems to be improving all the time at Sheffield United, However, I don't think they need to sell!

elliott
16-08-2002, 07:18 PM
feck off you **** bruce!!!
when they go down they'll go bankrupt like bradford.
its not wise to spend all that money in two years time we will buy clinton back, and hayden if he goes

Latvian
16-08-2002, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
Spend another 500k on Trond Anderson of Wimbledon as well.

Langley
Shittu
Anderson
750k

looks more appealing than:

Mullins

Defenders - why?

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
If Derry is worth 400k, then Bruce is overpaying to the tune of 2m, so bite his bloody hand off.

Yeah, if Derry was worth that you would be right! But Derry is worth more and only moved on for a bargain 400k because he supported Rix. Just in the same way Morrison is worth more than 4.25m but we had to sell because of whatever reason, be it finances, or Morrison's ambition

yorkshire eagle
16-08-2002, 07:21 PM
must say if we are offered 2.2 million for mullins ile take him to brum myself:D free of charge:cool: even buy him lunch in a cafe:eek: (expensive 3 course excluded) brown or even powell if brum dont sign him are head and shoulders above sorry hes flattering to decieve:p

markholmes1991
16-08-2002, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
Shittu was young at Charlton and never really given the chance. He has won many many plaudits at QPR and would be put in a similar bracket as Powell as far as 2nd Division defenders goes (went)


I played with Shittu at Carshalton back in 97 and he was a class apart. Very good ball player, and commanding in the air. Hes now filled out with age, and the prospects are good.He Was reluctant to leave Charlton but he is progressing well with QPR. Could be a canny acquisition, Think Clarke Carlisle would be worth a look if he could over come his recent spate of injuries.

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan


Yeah, if Derry was worth that you would be right! But Derry is worth more and only moved on for a bargain 400k because he supported Rix. Just in the same way Morrison is worth more than 4.25m but we had to sell because of whatever reason, be it finances, or Morrison's ambition

The value of a player is what someone is prepared to pay.

Hence that Morrison, Mullins and Derry are only worth 4.25m, 400k, and 2.2m respectively.

If Morrison was such a steal why didnt another team like Charlton, Spurs etc pop in?

Because he wasnt. He was priced realistically in todays market.

Michael Bridges is currently available for circa. 1m - doesnt this tell you something?

Latvian Eagle
16-08-2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
Michael Bridges is currently available for circa. 1m - doesnt this tell you something?

Yes, that we should sign him up fast. :D

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 07:25 PM
Shittu has got to be worthwhile, if only so when he scores the winning goal against the spunkgulls, the headline can be

"Palace Shittu on Brighton"

He is a class defender who whilst a bit raw (like Powell) has strength and pace and good ariel ability.

Anderson is one of the classiest midfielders in the division.

And Langley always looked lively against us.

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
Never thought I'd say it but for that money he can go. He's only got a year left on his contract? I would definitely be enquiring as to the availability of Hughes though

I never did either! I've agreed with everything uve ever posted up till now! I just think Mullins is class as a sweeper, and he should play there with Popovic and Powell! They have got the height, and he has got the reading of the game, the acceleration and the technical ability to hold us together.Also, he can go forward unmarked from sweeper and give us an extra man in midfield when necessary (eg Norwich home last season) to help us grab a game by the scruff of the neck. He is superb in the air for his height (regularly beats 6ft+ strikers because of his superb leaps) and he is still young.

Malakite
16-08-2002, 07:28 PM
This article appeared in today's INDEPENDENT....

"The Birmingham City manager, Steve Bruce, is making a 2.2m bid for
Crystal Palace's Hayden Mullins. Bruce opened talks with his former
employers about taking the versatile Mullins and making him the
third former Eagle to leave for St Andrews after Clinton Morrison
and Jovan Kirovski."

(c) The Independent

lees eagles
16-08-2002, 07:31 PM
I think Nyron Nosworthy at Gillingham has a lot of potential in the game, plus he would probably be let go because of Gillingham's financial situation - maybe 250k!

arussell
16-08-2002, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by markholmes1991
Was reluctant to leave Charlton but he is progressing well with QPR. Could be a canny acquisition, Think Clarke Carlisle would be worth a look if he could over come his recent spate of injuries.

Err .. I don't think we need any more defenders now Mark ! :)

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan


I never did either! I've agreed with everything uve ever posted up till now! I just think Mullins is class as a sweeper, and he should play there with Popovic and Powell! They have got the height, and he has got the reading of the game, the acceleration and the technical ability to hold us together.Also, he can go forward unmarked from sweeper and give us an extra man in midfield when necessary (eg Norwich home last season) to help us grab a game by the scruff of the neck. He is superb in the air for his height (regularly beats 6ft+ strikers because of his superb leaps) and he is still young.

Why hasnt he shown any of this supposed ability consistently for 2years then?

His clock at Palace is ticking, he showed potential, and will either have a great game or an absolute stinker.

Take the money whilst we can, and invest in strengthening the squad. The further away from the first team we can take Steve Thomson the better for our prospects this year.

Mullins plays like he has nothing to prove, which manifests itself in his casual approach. He may not believe it, but he has everything to prove. Id rather bring in some hungry players. Look at Darren Powell for a perfect example of this sort of hunger.

Our policy towards the playing staff is beginning to echo that of Ipswich, a policy which has won many plaudits. Sell players with good value (Dyer, Wright, Bramble etc) and bring through younger players or older pros with something to prove (Darlington, Holland, Stewart etc)

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
Given the state of the transfer market, 2.2m would be a very welcome injection of cash to stabilise Crystal Palace FC.

Personally, I think Mullins is an excellent player, and as somebody else has noted, isn't it funny how it's Steve Bruce - a man who has worked with him before - who is (allegedly) trying to sign him.

It could work one of a number of ways, either we:

a> sign an excellent new YOUNG centre midfielder to replace Mullins
b> waste our money on rubbish like Dennis Wise
c> use the money to service our debt, and play Aki or Thomson

But think about it - the chances of us signing a truly good young midfielder for less than 2.2m are small. Good young centre midfielders are few and far between, especially ones that will be as committed to Palace as our young players that have come through the academy. Aki and Thomson are simply not good enough. Which means that we would almost certainly either not replace Mullins, or replace him with a weaker player, or an old-timer playing their last few years (Wise/Sherwood etc.) Whatever the merits of Johnson & Adebola, neither player is as good as Clinton Morrison.

I would rather we held onto Mullins, and hope that in this (overall) stronger team than last year, he can create the kind of partnership with Derry that we are all hoping for.

Spot on, and that's why whatever Jaffa says about the current climate for transfer fees, you're worth what you can be replaced for, and Mullins won't be ADEQUATELY replaced for 2.2m! Simple as that

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 07:42 PM
Bollocks. If you know where to look there are plenty of players available. Ive pulled three off the top of my head, and Im sure there are people on this board like arussell who could bring other names up.

Like I said, look at Ipswich's policy. They have consistently got rid of the bigger names, but have used the transfer funds to ensure the long term future of the club and to bring in either younger players, or older hungry players.

You are worth what you can be sold for.

If I have a TV, it is worth what someone will give me for it, not what the cost of a replacement is.

Skin Up
16-08-2002, 07:48 PM
I watched QPR a couple of times last season and as said Shittu is a class act, although I heard his contract isn't that far off running out (could be misinformed though) so maybe we should bine our time rather than biding a million. Langley hasn't played that well since his return from a serious injury and Carlise has hardly played at all so might be worth waiting to see how they get on. Another good prospect at QPR is their young left back Terrance Forbes.

Anyway as to Mullins, right fee for the club and right time for the player to move. Good luck to him as he's never really let Palace down he's just frustrating because the Palace fans know he could be so much move. He'll certainly sink or swim in the Premiership and I would like to see him fulfill his potential, sadly for whatever reason he just doesn't seem able to take that extra step forward whilst at Palace.

PeterH
16-08-2002, 07:51 PM
Yes but if you cannot replace that TV for a better one you don't sell the one you have got for peanuts, you keep it Jaffa. Otherwise you are cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Poor analogy. I've got lots of stuff at home that has depreciated in value, doesn't mean I would sell it. But it would cost me more to replace it, in insurance its called New for Old. Anyway utterly irrelevant 2.2m is probably about fair in the current market, even perhaps a little generous. Still don't think we should sell him though.

Mullins has said something nasty to you hasn't he, you seem to want to boot him out the door. Would I be right in thinking you would actually pay someone to take him off our hands.

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa


Why hasnt he shown any of this supposed ability consistently for 2years then?

His clock at Palace is ticking, he showed potential, and will either have a great game or an absolute stinker.

Take the money whilst we can, and invest in strengthening the squad. The further away from the first team we can take Steve Thomson the better for our prospects this year.

Mullins plays like he has nothing to prove, which manifests itself in his casual approach. He may not believe it, but he has everything to prove. Id rather bring in some hungry players. Look at Darren Powell for a perfect example of this sort of hunger.

Our policy towards the playing staff is beginning to echo that of Ipswich, a policy which has won many plaudits. Sell players with good value (Dyer, Wright, Bramble etc) and bring through younger players or older pros with something to prove (Darlington, Holland, Stewart etc)

Need I remind you of how consistently good he was under Coppell when Mullins and Morrison ran the show?! A good manager methinks. Can u remember when we were top of the league last season Jaffa? Whatever you think of Steve Bruce, his record speaks for itself, and in his team, Mullins was one of the reasons we were doing so well, with consistently good performances week after week! Now, let's see, when was Mullins playing poorly? Under Alan Smith? Yes. Was he a good manager? He nearly relegated us, despite having more cash than Steve Coppell had for seasons, so I would have to say no! Then we move onto Trevor Francis, who plays Mullins in different positions every week so that he can't get settled. Most of the time, he is also playing in midfield where almost every1 who has posted on this thread agrees he is not at his best. Mullins is also the type of player who gets better once he is playing in a settled position every week, and he always gets better as the season goes on.

Walrus
16-08-2002, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
Take the money, if its true, and make a bid for Andy Johnson of WBA.........

Whoa, hold up a second. Is AJ of WBA surplus to their requirements ? We should be in there like a shot.

On second thoughts, that would screw up any "Only 1 AJ" chants.....

local playa
16-08-2002, 07:59 PM
2.2m for mullins is a good deal. We all know mullins could be a very good player, but the sad thing is since we came out of administration he hasn't been. He has been a good loyal servant to us and that has to be recognised, but 2.2m is alot of money at the moment epecially with so many clubs in trouble. TF and SJ have showed us already that they are willing to reinvest wisely and I am sure everyone was feeling a little nervous when we sold Clint but since we have bought very well we have a stronger squad for it and I am confident that with this money we can strengthen even more. With Derry, Butterfield, Aki, Black, Rubins, Routeledge and Gray we already have a competitive midfield and we will have 2.2m to reinvest on maybe Langley, Koumas etc.

Walrus
16-08-2002, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
2.2m for Mullins - where would the cash go?

About 1m to QPR for Langley and Shittu, thats where.

Loose a midfielder cum defender who hasnt quite lived up to his early hype, and get two excellent players, one for each of Mullins' "positions"

Shittu and Powell could be the best defensive partnership Palace have ever had in 2/3yrs.

I must say, on the occasions I saw Danny Shittu last season for QPR he looked pretty damned good at that level. I'm sure he's a good prospect...but don't we have Will Antwi ?

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 08:02 PM
Mullins was good under Coppell, may I suggest because the quality around him wasnt there, and also he got rather his own way a lot of the time, because Coppell wasnt able to argue with him for fear of loosing him.

Bruce himself has admitted that Palace were on the slippery slope before he left. Grimsby topped the league for a while last year, but there fans arent deluding themselves that their ex manager was the greatest in the world - and I believe that manager now finds himself on the dole queue.

Bruce has a lot to prove, as does Mullins.

As for Peters analogy...

If we consider Derry as Mullins' replacement, then have we necessarily traded down. On Derrys initial performances I dont think so. There is value to be had out there, we have just got to find it. Buying 2-3 players with the money gives you a greater sum of parts than Mullins contributes.

To be honest, I have no gripe with Mullins, other than that he infuriates me. As I have said, he can be brilliant one week, awful the next. He needs to find consistency and I think complacency is the key to this fact. His standing at Palace is now of a senior player and so I dont think he will find it here. Move on Hayden.

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by PeterH
Yes but if you cannot replace that TV for a better one you don't sell the one you have got for peanuts, you keep it Jaffa. Otherwise you are cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Poor analogy. I've got lots of stuff at home that has depreciated in value, doesn't mean I would sell it. But it would cost me more to replace it, in insurance its called New for Old. Anyway utterly irrelevant 2.2m is probably about fair in the current market, even perhaps a little generous. Still don't think we should sell him though.

Mullins has said something nasty to you hasn't he, you seem to want to boot him out the door. Would I be right in thinking you would actually pay someone to take him off our hands.

Peter, do you agree or disagree that Ipswich's policy of selling established stars like Dyer, Bramble and Wright and bringing in cheaper replacements with something to prove was one of the key reasons behing their consistent ability to get to the playoffs, and then move the extra level and finish in the top 6 of the Premiership?

Do you agree or disagree that Palaces current transfer policy echo's the policy of Ipswich.

Do you agree or disagree that irrespective of Ipswichs current league position you would not like to have been in their shoes over the last few years.

brighton_eagle
16-08-2002, 08:05 PM
How long is his contract? I would give him one more season to fulfill his early promise. We don't really know yet how good Derry is, so lets hold o to Mullins for a while longer.

We shouldn't be in a hurry to sell him.

Cleon
16-08-2002, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by local playa
With Derry, Butterfield, Aki, Black, Rubins, Routeledge and Gray we already have a competitive midfield and we will have 2.2m to reinvest on maybe Langley, Koumas etc.

Of the players you mention in our 'competitive midfield', only two are genuine central midfielders (Derry & Aki). I think people need to stop thinking that a central midfielder for a club which failed to reach the second division play-offs is suddenly going to be better than the tried and tested, and loyal, Hayden Mullins.

I agree that Koumas is a class player, but he WON'T LEAVE TRANMERE. He could have played for WBA in the First Division, and turned them down. He was then offered the chance of playing for them in the Premiership - and he turned them down again because he doesn't want to play that far south!? FORGET HIM.

Unless somebody can come up with a REALISTIC suggestion, then I stand by the view that we will weaken the centre of midfield by selling Mullins. We need to give him and Derry time to take this division by the scruff of the neck.

Clapham Grand
16-08-2002, 08:09 PM
Trond Andersen is a good call

LLCOOLSTEVE
16-08-2002, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by Walrus


Whoa, hold up a second. Is AJ of WBA surplus to their requirements ? We should be in there like a shot.



Asked to be transfer listed, due to "lack of first team opportunitys" and a dispute over their pay increase i think.

Cleon
16-08-2002, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
Peter, do you agree or disagree that Ipswich's policy of selling established stars like Dyer, Bramble and Wright and bringing in cheaper replacements with something to prove was one of the key reasons behing their consistent ability to get to the playoffs, and then move the extra level and finish in the top 6 of the Premiership?

Do you agree or disagree that Palaces current transfer policy echo's the policy of Ipswich.

Do you agree or disagree that irrespective of Ipswichs current league position you would not like to have been in their shoes over the last few years.

I know I'm not Peter, but... your analogy works with Dyer, but they sold Wright after their one successful season, and they sold Bramble having been relegated back to the First Division.

I could also suggest a more apt analogy would be the side that sold star players, called Wright, Bright and Southgate, and soon found themselves slipping down the table.

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa


The value of a player is what someone is prepared to pay.

Hence that Morrison, Mullins and Derry are only worth 4.25m, 400k, and 2.2m respectively.

If Morrison was such a steal why didnt another team like Charlton, Spurs etc pop in?

Because he wasnt. He was priced realistically in todays market.

Michael Bridges is currently available for circa. 1m - doesnt this tell you something?

No, the value of a player is what he is worth to a team! Do you believe that all deals are fair and both parties get the same deal? Do you think that we have always sold our players for the correct value and bought for the correct value because what someone is prepared to pay is what the player is worth? Do you therefore think that Freedman is 4 times worse than Rubins?! (Especially taking into account that strikers are worth more than midfielders!)

When there is a financial crisis clubs sell their best players for less than they are worth cos they are desperate for the money! Then when the player gets sold on by the club that bought them for more money, it isnt because the player has suddenly improved, its because they are not desperate for the money and can get a sound deal. At the end of the day, a player is worth the same no matter what club he plays for. What matters is the players ability to help the team win prizemoney and trophies and escape relegation etc! The only thing is some clubs get below the true value of their player because of their financial position, or the managers craving to bring someone new in so that it is 'their player'. Jordan, unlike many, has money to spend. He has said so himself many times. Therefore, we shouldn't need to sell Mullins, unless you can get the same player for the money. 2.2m. I dont think you can. Derry might be worth 2.2m and sold under his true value because of his bust-up at Portsmouth with the chairman. But Mullins is also being sold for under his true value because of Francis's obsession with having his 'own players'.

lees eagles
16-08-2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Clapham Grand
Trond Andersen is a good call

Good choice, what about;

Damien Francis
Oyvind Leonhardsen
Glen Little
Darryl Powell
Michael Brown
Paul Shaw
Martin Rowlands
Dave Kitson
Gerald Sibon
Patrick Agyemang
Michael Hughes
David Prutton

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 08:22 PM
The value of an item is what someone is prepared to pay, Im sorry, thats the way it is. This is a business we are talking about, players are the businesses assets.

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Cleon


Of the players you mention in our 'competitive midfield', only two are genuine central midfielders (Derry & Aki). I think people need to stop thinking that a central midfielder for a club which failed to reach the second division play-offs is suddenly going to be better than the tried and tested, and loyal, Hayden Mullins.

I agree that Koumas is a class player, but he WON'T LEAVE TRANMERE. He could have played for WBA in the First Division, and turned them down. He was then offered the chance of playing for them in the Premiership - and he turned them down again because he doesn't want to play that far south!? FORGET HIM.

Unless somebody can come up with a REALISTIC suggestion, then I stand by the view that we will weaken the centre of midfield by selling Mullins. We need to give him and Derry time to take this division by the scruff of the neck.

I'll support you all the way on this!

OKnotOK
16-08-2002, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE


Asked to be transfer listed, due to "lack of first team opportunitys" and a dispute over their pay increase i think.

Not first team opportunities. He's a regular and will start on saturday.

But when he signed last summer, he took a paycut. On condition that if the club made it into the premiership within that contract, they would renegotiate terms to pay him on a "premiership level". Apparently the club's assessment of a "premiership level" is very different to his. So he has handed in a transfer request.

I can say with pretty much 100% certainty that he will not be joining us. More's the pity. :sob:

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 08:26 PM
We have come up with realistic propositions.

Trond Anderson is a here and now player.

500k and Wimbledon would be biting your hand off.

Cleon
16-08-2002, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by lees eagles


Good choice, what about;

Damien Francis
Oyvind Leonhardsen
Glen Little
Darryl Powell
Michael Brown
Paul Shaw
Martin Rowlands
Dave Kitson
Gerald Sibon
Patrick Agyemang
Michael Hughes
David Prutton

Of those players, and ignoring those that we can't get/wouldn't come (ie Leonhardsen, Little, Powell), and the strikers (Kitson, Agyemang), I think only Michael Brown or Dave Prutton even vaguely begin to fit the bill, and I don't think the clubs involved would sell.

And, as for the value of a player, I would say that the value of a player is indeed what they do for their team. The sale price is simply what another team thinks the player will do for the other team. Hence why sales often fail to happen because valuations cannot be agreed. Derry is a perfect example.

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
The value of an item is what someone is prepared to pay, Im sorry, thats the way it is. This is a business we are talking about, players are the businesses assets.

So if suddenly you became the richest man in the world and everyone else became bankrupt and could afford nothing (maybe you stole everything from them!), would your tv, cars, house, food etc become worthless because no-one could afford to pay a penny for them?! That therefore implies that if they're not worth anything, you may as well throw them all away, because they are worthless! Agreed? Or maybe they are worth something to you?

lees eagles
16-08-2002, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
We have come up with realistic propositions.

Trond Anderson is a here and now player.

500k and Wimbledon would be biting your hand off.


True, and can I point out that a few months back, Steve Bruce made a 1m offer for his services at Birmingham, but I think the player turned it down!
SO, all the pro-Bruce brigade would welcome this signing if Mullins were to go?

Then, again some just seem determined to not be satisfied with anything at the club these days!!!!!

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 08:34 PM
glaziers, yes, your items would become worthless.

Methinks you need to scrub up on your elementary Economics.

lees eagles
16-08-2002, 08:38 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cleon
[B]

Of those players, and ignoring those that we can't get/wouldn't come (ie Leonhardsen, Little, Powell), and the strikers (Kitson, Agyemang), I think only Michael Brown or Dave Prutton even vaguely begin to fit the bill, and I don't think the clubs involved would sell.



Well, Leonhardsen has been in the reserves at Spurs and would be sold if the price was right, Glen Little is available after Stan Ternant put the whole Burnley first team up for sale to save the club so we wouldn't need to pay as much, also, Darryl Powell is on a free and currently on trail at Birmingham hoping for a contract!

What about Damien Francis, he was man of the match when we played them away!

brighton_eagle
16-08-2002, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
The value of an item is what someone is prepared to pay, Im sorry, thats the way it is. This is a business we are talking about, players are the businesses assets.

Not quite Jaffa my young fruit and veg entrepreneur. You are too linear, as usual. :)

What if you don't want to sell? Is the player then worthless? The value of a player to us is not necersarily the same as the value of a player to someone else.

The Vicar
16-08-2002, 08:40 PM
Mullins is an excellent player who has not yet realized his potential. Part of the reason for that is his versatility: he's been played in too many positions and needs to have the chance to settle into one role on a day to day basis.

We shouldn't sell Mullins, period.

Jaffa, why such a negative view here? Your Mullins bashing does not appear to be based on logic, rather some emotional response.

zonin2000
16-08-2002, 08:41 PM
Clarke

Fleming Powell Popovic
Butterfield Granville
Derry Andersen
Rowlands

Freedman Stewart/Bridges


2.2 million - 2 million (Andersen + Stewart/Bridges) - Free (Rowlands)

Actually I have no clue where Rowlands is or how much he would cost.

Good midfield. If we're in a battle we can replace Rowlands with Wise.

The Vicar
16-08-2002, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by Cleon


Of the players you mention in our 'competitive midfield', only two are genuine central midfielders (Derry & Aki). I think people need to stop thinking that a central midfielder for a club which failed to reach the second division play-offs is suddenly going to be better than the tried and tested, and loyal, Hayden Mullins.

I agree that Koumas is a class player, but he WON'T LEAVE TRANMERE. He could have played for WBA in the First Division, and turned them down. He was then offered the chance of playing for them in the Premiership - and he turned them down again because he doesn't want to play that far south!? FORGET HIM.

Unless somebody can come up with a REALISTIC suggestion, then I stand by the view that we will weaken the centre of midfield by selling Mullins. We need to give him and Derry time to take this division by the scruff of the neck.

Quite right, Cleon. Well said.

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by The Vicar
Mullins is an excellent player who has not yet realized his potential. Part of the reason for that is his versatility: he's been played in too many positions and needs to have the chance to settle into one role on a day to day basis.

We shouldn't sell Mullins, period.

Jaffa, why such a negative view here? Your Mullins bashing does not appear to be based on logic, rather some emotional response.

Because in the current climate 2.2m is too good an offer to turn down considering current England internationals are switching clubs for that, and that 2.2m could be used to make some very useful signings for us.

Celestial Empire
16-08-2002, 08:50 PM
Well, I guess that's the new Palace : our young players are "over-rated", everyone else's players are "superb talent".

Before, the name of the game was build a team for promotion, and good enough to stay up. Now it's get rid of any young players with the class to make it in the Prem, "to get some dosh in", then bring in "honest tryers", on the cheap from wherever.

If Mullins goes, Gray will surely follow.
Suddenly our "very talented, but young squad" won't be and won't be.

When do you market trading geniuses reckon we should "bite is and orf" to sell Routledge then ? Shouldn't we just get rid of him quickly because he may have an injury, "fail to develop to his potential", get an "attitude" or be "too casual".

When Jaf thinks it's a great idea, you can be absolutely certain it ain't.

Morrison made us a "selling club" again, let's sell loads more then, then it'll become clear we have zilch ambition.

When Ron did it, it was "asset stripping", when the current bungler does it, it's "canny building for the future" or "stabilising the club".

Most sickeningly ironic double standard is that these "bite is and orf" merchants won't hear a word against the very limited and continuously disappointing Tom Black - now there's a young dud who should be moved on.
What's that you say ? Nobody has made an offer for him ?
Hmmm, I wonder why ? He's got a cheeky face, he's not too good, nobody else wants him - definitely a "Palace through and through" player then.

Isn't it great the way our "good pre-season", "great start to the season" and "some stability at last" has suddenly started sputtering ?

LLCOOLSTEVE
16-08-2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by zonin2000


Actually I have no clue where Rowlands is or how much he would cost.




Brentford, wouldnt cost much......


Glenn Little would be good.

Jason
16-08-2002, 08:56 PM
Jaffa, you are partly right in your analysis, but not completely

It's true that in the scenario described above, in pure economic terms, the items would become worthless, as there are no buyers in the marketplace. However, that doesn't tell the whole story. While worthless, the items still have a value to the owner due to their use to him. As such, although an offer of 1 for the items may be applicable in pure economic terms, the owner would be foolish to sell for that amount unless he could obtain equivalent benefit from that 1. As mentioned elsewhere, this is why many commercial transactions do not happen. The value of an item to it's owner is often far greater than it's "market" value

Back to the case of Mullins. In today's market, 2.2m is probably not a bad deal. This is particularly true if we can obtain a replacement for the same money. A cash plus Brian Hughes deal was mentiond. I like that idea, but suspect we'd struggle to get away with that. I'm of the view that in any event we can almost certainly obtain "equivalent benefit" (although probably not an out and out replacement) for mch less money. As mentioned, Mullins plays in a manor that doesn't really suit the way the team is shaping up to play (arguably, his style doesn't suit the first division !). At the same time, the urgent need is for a conventional creative midfielder to play alongside Derry. If 2.2m buys this, as well as providing funds to shore up the overall financial position of the club (as per the remainder of the Morrison money I suspect) then I'm in favour. While I'm not up enough on what's happening to be able to name names, I'm sure that in this climate, there are young midfielders available in the lower divisions to do this job for under 1m. In this context, selling Mullins can only be a good move. Hopefully as well as the club benefiting, he will go on and fufill the potential that he so obviously has, but is yet to even look like living up to.

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
glaziers, yes, your items would become worthless.

Methinks you need to scrub up on your elementary Economics.

Oh, ok, well maybe if they were worthless to you, I could have them because to me they would be worth something in terms of my entertainment and happiness.

pedro
16-08-2002, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
I agree that Koumas is a class player, but he WON'T LEAVE TRANMERE. He could have played for WBA in the First Division, and turned them down. He was then offered the chance of playing for them in the Premiership - and he turned them down again because he doesn't want to play that far south!? FORGET HIM.

Haven't WBA today announced that they hope to tie up the purchases of Koumas and Sadlier early next week!! Me thinks young Jason has got fed up waiting for Everton, he gave them all summer and there is nothing doing so off to the Hawthorns he is going.

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 09:00 PM
Trust our regular cynic (muppet) in China to interlude with his own regular brand of wit, or should that say complete bullshit.

If Morrison made us a selling club again, what did the purchases of Derry, Adebola, Butterfield, Johnson and Powell make us?

Why will Gray surely follow? Are we even sure they share any great friendship? Does anyone want Gray right now?

Mullins and Morrison have been at the club a reasonably long time in modern football and occasionally it does both parties good to make a clean break of it.

The buys we have made this season have added to the depth of the squad, and these were made possible through the sale of Morrison. Can anyone possibly say we are weaker now than last year. We have replaced a 20goal a season man with a 20goal a season man, and then some. All the talk about where will the goals come from, answered.. but as usual a lot of you cynics seem to think that every player Palace produce is the best thing since sliced bread, and that other teams starlets couldnt possibly compete. Birmingham fans have praised Johnson and called Adebola probably the best Division One striker, but oh not thats not enough.

I understand your loyalty to players bought up through the ranks, but it is somewhat blinkered.

We are in a position where we have to raise funds to improve the team as a whole, and so the logical way to do that is to cash in on your most valuable assets.

It seems that Francis/Jordan et al are criticised whatever they do. Damned if they do, damned if they dont.

I hope that we go up this year, it`ll bring the normal pleasure... and then some.... as I see people on here eating humble pie left right and centre.

brighton_eagle
16-08-2002, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
I hope that we go up this year, it`ll bring the normal pleasure... and then some.... as I see people on here eating humble pie left right and centre.

why does not wanting us to sell Mullins equate with eating humble pie if we get promotion?

you are a strange young man sometimes Jaf.

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan


Oh, ok, well maybe if they were worthless to you, I could have them because to me they would be worth something in terms of my entertainment and happiness.

Listen to what Jason said, theres a good fellow.

Mullins and Morrison were obviously earmarked as the two most saleable assets in order to finance a restructuring of the squad.

Once it is clear that they are "for sale" then their value becomes whatever someone is prepared to pay.

In economic terms, Morrison was sold at his value - however, it is true to say that maybe (in some of your minds) he wasnt sold at the cost of his value to the club. That is all rather subjective though.

zonin2000
16-08-2002, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
glaziers, yes, your items would become worthless.

Methinks you need to scrub up on your elementary Economics.

Wait you two are coming from two seperate angles.

If you were the richest man in the world... yes your items would become worthless in as much as no one else could afford to pay for them. But they would have value to you, you wouldn't want to throw them away.

If no other club in the world had any money, then nobody would be able to purchase Dougie Freedman, but we wouldn't therefore give him a free transfer because we need him to score goals (or create them, whatever). Basically a player (or any commodity) is worth the lowest amount we are prepared to sell him for combined with the highest price the bidder is willing to pay- no that doesn't sound right... Simply put, the price the buyer agrees with the seller.

That simple, because economics is meant to be simple.

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
Trust our regular cynic (muppet) in China to interlude with his own regular brand of wit, or should that say complete bullshit.

If Morrison made us a selling club again, what did the purchases of Derry, Adebola, Butterfield, Johnson and Powell make us?

Why will Gray surely follow? Are we even sure they share any great friendship? Does anyone want Gray right now?

Mullins and Morrison have been at the club a reasonably long time in modern football and occasionally it does both parties good to make a clean break of it.

The buys we have made this season have added to the depth of the squad, and these were made possible through the sale of Morrison. Can anyone possibly say we are weaker now than last year. We have replaced a 20goal a season man with a 20goal a season man, and then some. All the talk about where will the goals come from, answered.. but as usual a lot of you cynics seem to think that every player Palace produce is the best thing since sliced bread, and that other teams starlets couldnt possibly compete. Birmingham fans have praised Johnson and called Adebola probably the best Division One striker, but oh not thats not enough.

I understand your loyalty to players bought up through the ranks, but it is somewhat blinkered.

We are in a position where we have to raise funds to improve the team as a whole, and so the logical way to do that is to cash in on your most valuable assets.

It seems that Francis/Jordan et al are criticised whatever they do. Damned if they do, damned if they dont.

I hope that we go up this year, it`ll bring the normal pleasure... and then some.... as I see people on here eating humble pie left right and centre.

Or alternatively you could offload your best players for less than their true value, buy a whole squad of average players (top div 1 players that will never make it in Premiership), scrape promotion, and either be immediately relegated and laughed at (eg West Brom this year!) or buy big and expect the club to be ruined should relegation occur!

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle


why does not wanting us to sell Mullins equate with eating humble pie if we get promotion?

you are a strange young man sometimes Jaf.

Because it seems every man and his dog on this BBS feels he knows how to do Trevor and Simons jobs better than they do. Dont sell Morrison and Mullins, sack Francis (costing us a compensation payment) buy some extra players (money from where?) etc etc.

Sometimes you have to make sacrifices in order to get what you ultimately want to achieve. Richard Branson had Virgin Records, he sold it, developed V2, used the money towards V2 and also his ailing airline business and he is doing just swimmingly.

Does it also not occur that in such a volitile industry as football it does not make sense to have 50% of the first team squads value in two players?

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan


Or alternatively you could offload your best players for less than their true value, buy a whole squad of average players (top div 1 players that will never make it in Premiership), scrape promotion, and either be immediately relegated and laughed at (eg West Brom this year!) or buy big and expect the club to be ruined should relegation occur!

So your option is that we end up in the Premier with a choice to make...

or

We struggle with the same team that has failed to get us promoted in the past 4-5 seasons, and if by grace of god we do get promoted, at least we have Morrison and Mullins... leaving us two options

1) either be immediately relagated
2) buy big and expect the club to be ruined

The Vicar
16-08-2002, 09:14 PM
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, isn't it Jaffa?

Francis may not deserve our support (most of us are giving him a chance, albeit somewhat reluctantly given his obvious mistakes last year, and now he punches our reserve keeper, causing uncertainty and a lack of focus for our players).

Our best players deserve our support 100%!

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by zonin2000


Wait you two are coming from two seperate angles.

If you were the richest man in the world... yes your items would become worthless in as much as no one else could afford to pay for them. But they would have value to you, you wouldn't want to throw them away.

If no other club in the world had any money, then nobody would be able to purchase Dougie Freedman, but we wouldn't therefore give him a free transfer because we need him to score goals (or create them, whatever). Basically a player (or any commodity) is worth the lowest amount we are prepared to sell him for combined with the highest price the bidder is willing to pay- no that doesn't sound right... Simply put, the price the buyer agrees with the seller.

That simple, because economics is meant to be simple.

And if the seller doesn't need/want to sell, the commodities would actually become priceless not worthless, despite what Jaffa thinks!

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 09:19 PM
I know that Glaziers Fan.

However, Palace did want to sell, in order to restructure the team.

Remember, there is no I in team (although there is a U in C*nt ;) )

I would rather a team of 11 decent players, than 10 mediocre players and 1 stand out player.

Oh, and Vicar, I am not not supporting the team, I am merely saying that if Mullins does go it wont be a bad thing necessarily.

Im sure Mullins is not loosing to much sleep over me saying this, especially when his 100,000 signing on bonus arrives in his current account.

brighton_eagle
16-08-2002, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan


And if the seller doesn't need/want to sell, the commodities would actually become priceless not worthless, despite what Jaffa thinks!

Yes, or put differently, their value would become an abstract related to the cost of replacing like with like, plus some factor of the intrinsic value of the item to the owner.

For a star striker then, his value should the club not be selling would equate to the cost of replacing him with a similar player and the value in terms of income to the club, ie increased gates, promotion to next division, shirt sales etc.

Not quite as simple.

brighton_eagle
16-08-2002, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
Remember, there is no I in team (although there is a U in C*nt ;) )


Owww!!!

That is not on Jaf, you can't start chucking around americanisms like that.

For what it's worth, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. However, I'm not sure we need to sell now, and I would like the new players to have more time to settle in at least.

glaziers fan
16-08-2002, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle


Yes, or put differently, their value would become an abstract related to the cost of replacing like with like, plus some factor of the intrinsic value of the item to the owner.

For a star striker then, his value should the club not be selling would equate to the cost of replacing him with a similar player and the value in terms of income to the club, ie increased gates, promotion to next division, shirt sales etc.

Not quite as simple.

I agree wholeheartedly! You're absolutely correct. Jaffa thinks that the value of a player is what another club is willing to pay for him. But the value is what he is worth to us as a team, ie in prizemoney, trophies, gate money, shirt sales etc etc!

Roland Butter
16-08-2002, 09:24 PM
I dont bother to read half of what Jaffa writes, as his keyboard must be covered in bull!

The man who didn't realise that Preston didn't make the playoff last year, and that Lennie Lawrence is doing very well at Cardiff thanks very much.

In my opinion Mullins can only play as a sweeper, or as 'the extra defender' in the back three.

However 2.2m is good in the current climate.

We could get M Brown for that money, as he is far and away Sheff Utd best player, plus there is alot of other opportunities elsewhere to be useful aquisitions.

I don't think we could get Stewart from Ipswich due to the cut in wages, but I would love to see him come to the Palace.

One thing that does bother me though. How come Francis said that Bruce was stating as saying we were not good enough for promotion, yet once promoted, he comes back and poaches half of our decent squad?

zonin2000
16-08-2002, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan


And if the seller doesn't need/want to sell, the commodities would actually become priceless not worthless, despite what Jaffa thinks!


Yeah basically. Though I've been told that everyone and everything has it's price :rolleyes:


Does it also not occur that in such a volitile industry as football it does not make sense to have 50% of the first team squads value in two players?

I disagree because football isn't really a volatile industry, certainly not as volatile as the fruit and veg industry (coincidentally, given your job Jaff). There was an upward trend in transfer fees up untill this summer, when TV deals collapsed in Germany, Italy and the Nationwide League. Consequently, transfer values did drop, many beleive that we could have sold Morrison for more than what we did.

However, Butterfield and Derry would have cost more as well. Overall the deflation means that there is less transfer activity although the discrepancy between Morrison's value now to his value 6 months ago should cancel itself out by the amount we saved on Derry/Butterpatch.


With hindsight we would have sold Morrison in January and still have purchased the aforementioned players when we did.

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 09:27 PM
I agree, I wouldnt be upset in the least if Mullins didnt go. However, just stating that his transfer would allow us to strengthen further.

As for when is the right/wrong time to sell, he could mature playing alongside Derry, and we could give him that chance. But if 2.2m is available now, Im thinking lets just start afresh, its only 2 games into the season, so it wouldnt be a disasterous time to do it.

glaziers_fan seems more interested in arguing with me than actually discussing the issues. Lets not mention economics again, lets simply say that we wanted to sell, and got the best price we could. Its the same as if you sell your car in Auto-Trader, you may take 200 less than its worth, but you`ve got rid of it, you have your cash in your pocket. Sorted.

Can we draw a line under this whole "Morrison was too cheap" issue please Glaziers, its done. dusted.

Celestial Empire
16-08-2002, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan


And if the seller doesn't need/want to sell, the commodities would actually become priceless not worthless, despite what Jaffa thinks!

Glaziers - you know .... attention seekers.
If you ignore them, they often start shouting profanities about.
Still, if you REALLY ignore them, they eventually .... eventually, go away and annoy someone else.
:rolleyes: ;)

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Roland Butter
I dont bother to read half of what Jaffa writes, as his keyboard must be covered in bull!

The man who didn't realise that Preston didn't make the playoff last year, and that Lennie Lawrence is doing very well at Cardiff thanks very much.

In my opinion Mullins can only play as a sweeper, or as 'the extra defender' in the back three.

However 2.2m is good in the current climate.

We could get M Brown for that money, as he is far and away Sheff Utd best player, plus there is alot of other opportunities elsewhere to be useful aquisitions.

I don't think we could get Stewart from Ipswich due to the cut in wages, but I would love to see him come to the Palace.

One thing that does bother me though. How come Francis said that Bruce was stating as saying we were not good enough for promotion, yet once promoted, he comes back and poaches half of our decent squad?

You say you dont listen to what I say yet you strangely agree with what I say in this post.

Interesting.

I made a mistake about Preston, and Im not sure what you are on about with Lennie Lawrence... he was sacked from Grimsby... end of. Wow, lets chastise me!

I mean, its been over a week... I must be due a bashing.

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by zonin2000

I disagree because football isn't really a volatile industry, certainly not as volatile as the fruit and veg industry (coincidentally, given your job Jaff).


Volatile, in so much as that if Morrison and Mullins had broken their legs at the beginning of the season and their careers had been ended we would have been fighting for a little bit of compensation (most of which would have gone to the players) rather than makinng nearly 7m through sales.

Originally posted by Celestial Eagle
If you ignore them, they often start shouting profanities about.
Still, if you REALLY ignore them, they eventually .... eventually, go away and annoy someone else.


Yeah, but the accesibility of the Internet in China means you never quite went away :rolleyes:

Coochy boochy boo... cry to mummy because I used profanities.

How I wish the "Great Wall of China" Internet firewall blocked the BBS for our Chinese "friends"

zonin2000
16-08-2002, 09:41 PM
With hindsight we would have sold Morrison in January and still have purchased the aforementioned players when we did.

Hypothetical of course, we couldn't have predicted the events of the last six months. Just pointing out in which case a discrepancy in the market wouldn't have cancelled itself out (would have been in our favour in fact).

zonin2000
16-08-2002, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
Volatile, in so much as that if Morrison and Mullins had broken their legs at the beginning of the season and their careers had been ended we would have been fighting for a little bit of compensation (most of which would have gone to the players) rather than makinng nearly 7m through sales.

Oh ok see what you mean

Ralph
16-08-2002, 10:01 PM
Im getting out of here, this is getting a bit heated!

Symon10
16-08-2002, 10:16 PM
Wouldn't be surprising if mullins left. We've already lost the only player who can play an attacking midfield role in 3-5-2 well and so it apparently won't be much of a problem losing the only player who can play sweeper well at the club.:(

I don't want mullins to leave and like morrison don't think we should sell at any price, i still feel the same. What we should have done was look to buy johnson as he looks a good prospect - whether he delivers or not, we'll see.

Symon10
16-08-2002, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by Ralph
Im getting out of here, this is getting a bit heated!

what do you expect? - jaffa is on the thread, he can't have a normal discussion without insulting others because they have a different opinion and may infact be correct. No way - jaffa couldn't be wrong could he!!??

Hold up, i seem to remember him telling me we were definitely going to play a flat defensive 4 v preston. (we played 3-5-2) and we definitely played 3-5-2 first half v bradford!!! (nope 4-4-2!!!)

:eek:

Two-Tone
16-08-2002, 10:20 PM
it is all just speculation you know - lets wait and see what happens.

Gooders
16-08-2002, 10:27 PM
If an old 'un can just chip in between all you testosterone-charged young 'uns ;) I would just like to say that during my 30+ years following Palace there have been a number of players that I never wanted to see leave. Off the top of my head:

Don Rogers
Peter Taylor
Ian Wright (at about 32 years of age, I nearly cried when I heard he was going :eek: )
Nigel Martyn

...and probably a few others.

In recent years, I haven't become attached to any particular player in the same way. I like Mullins; I think he has loads of potential.

But 2.2 million would represent a very fair price on what he has achieved so far and it's probably time for him to move and see if he can make the step up that a change of scenery would require anyway.

If he goes, good luck to him.

RednBlue
16-08-2002, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
If an old 'un can just chip in between all you testosterone-charged young 'uns ;) I would just like to say that during my 30+ years following Palace there have been a number of players that I never wanted to see leave. Off the top of my head:

Don Rogers
Peter Taylor
Ian Wright (at about 32 years of age, I nearly cried when I heard he was going :eek: )
Nigel Martyn

...and probably a few others.

In recent years, I haven't become attached to any particular player in the same way. I like Mullins; I think he has loads of potential.

But 2.2 million would represent a very fair price on what he has achieved so far and it's probably time for him to move and see if he can make the step up that a change of scenery would require anyway.

If he goes, good luck to him.
That pretty much sums up my feelings too Gooders...perhaps Dougie is the exception out of the current bunch...and I have a good feeling that Darren Powell is in the mould of the old Palace greats.
But if Mullins goes, good luck to him, I think he probably needs to move on.

Mister Parks
16-08-2002, 10:56 PM
What does Mullins want to do?

I would guess he's coming to some footballing crossroads now his chum Clint has moved to pastures blue. If his heart isn't in it and IMHO his heart has rarely been in it, then he should go and we should get the best possible deal (sell-on clause maybe just in case he trains on).

He's got a fine touch on the ball, reasonable passing ability, could be better positionally but I don't think he's got a big heart.

He should improve playing with better players but you never can tell.

All I hope is it doesn't drag on to long. I would think the story originates from the Bruce spin machine and he's maybe testing the water/unsettling Mullins/keeping himself and Brum in the public eye.

At the end of the day players like Mullins will do whatever they want to do

:rolleyes:

Jason
16-08-2002, 11:02 PM
On the "promotion dilema" point, I have a slightly different view to the ones mentioned so far. It's been said that if we went up, the result would be either humiliating relegation, or a "death or glory" spending spree that would cripple the club if we were relegated (that last option rings a bell from somewhere !).

However, I think there is a third option. Looking at the clubs who have established themselves in the Premiership in recent years (Bolton, Charlton, Sunderland, and unril last season Leicester), I have come to the conclusion that making the step up is these days (unless you have a major benefactor) a two stage process. Looking at the current squad for example, I think we have a good chance of making the play offs, but lack the quality for a top two finish. It's also fair to say that if we did go up, the current squad would be murdered week in week out in the Premiership.

Given the above, we would obviously have to strengthen in the event of promotion. However, rather than spending mega money that we don't have trying to stay up, we should make sensible "dual purpose" signings. By that, I mean players who will improve the squad, and are capable of doing a job in the Premiership BUT would not cripple the club financially or throw their toys out of the pram should relegation ensure.

If the above was done a relegation battle would undoubtedly ensue, and it's more likely than not that we would ultimately lose that battle. However, we would then return to the Nationwide stronger both playing wise and financially. While one or two players would probably have to be sacrificed, we would still be VERY well placed to mount a second promotion campaign (helped of course by the fact that having recently been in the Premiership would make us more attractive to up and coming young players than other Nationwide Clubs). Once promotion was acheived a second time, another bout of sensible strengthening should see survival, consolifation, and gradual improvement in the Premiership.

Obviously ,things are not quite as simple as that, but if you look at the clubs mentioned above (all of whom apart from Sunderland are of a similar size to ourselves), I believe they have all used this approach, and are now reaping the rewards.

What do people think ?

pedro
16-08-2002, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Two-Tone
it is all just speculation you know - lets wait and see what happens.
At last, a reality check, I thought he had already gone reading some of the previous comments.

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Symon10


what do you expect? - jaffa is on the thread, he can't have a normal discussion without insulting others because they have a different opinion and may infact be correct. No way - jaffa couldn't be wrong could he!!??

Hold up, i seem to remember him telling me we were definitely going to play a flat defensive 4 v preston. (we played 3-5-2) and we definitely played 3-5-2 first half v bradford!!! (nope 4-4-2!!!)

:eek:

I can have a normal discussion, I dont think it was I dishing out insults to begin with.

You just have the hump because I accused you of being a xenophobic little englander on MSN earlier.

Lets hope you get your place at Thames Valley and rot with everyone else.

cpfcben
16-08-2002, 11:11 PM
this just seems like another negative step to me. a few bad games doesn't suddenly make mullins a bad player. in fact i would go as far as to say i think he is one of our most technically gifted players and to lose him would be terrible mistake, especially to mr c*nt face




BRUCE WHY DON'T YOU GO AND F*CK OFF AND GO AND NICK OTHER TEAMS PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!INSTEAD OF OURS U BIG NOSED ****

Jaffa
16-08-2002, 11:15 PM
Why does it matter who we sell too?

Some of you guys need to get on with your lives instead of living in the past.

Trevor has bought two ex-Birmingham players, Bruce has bought two ex-Palace players.

Just a thought.

Symon10
16-08-2002, 11:20 PM
would somebody please let jaffa-cake know that i've got an offer at city uni. (if he would actually like to look at the UCAS thread). And also he didn't mention xenophobia once.

though i did notice quite a few words like "t0sser" directed at my friendly self - and that for loving england!

Fatboynotsoslim
17-08-2002, 12:11 AM
Might as well throw my views in as well !!!

2.2M for Mullins, in todays market is excellent value - I would certainly let him go for that.

I would then bid 1.5M for Dave Prutton of Forest - absolute quality, far better than Mullins and with Forests desperate financial situation , they would probably sell at that price.

If we need the money to stabilise the club, then bring the youngsters through from the reserves - I certainly wouldn't buy another young defender when we have players like Antwi in the reserves.

I also wouldn't buy players like Stewart when we have Gareth Williams, Routledge etc in the reserves.

A midfield of Black (or Smith), Aki, Derry, Butterfield (or Grey) seems pretty good to me - better than most in this division - maybe we just need to but some cover for the central position, but there are plenty available on a free - you just need to look around.

I would wish Hayden all the very best with his new club (if he goes) and I don't want him to go because I don't like him, I just feel that in todays market, 2.2M is a bloody good price.

lees eagles
17-08-2002, 12:14 AM
I would be sad to see Hayden go, because I feel he showed unbelievable
commitment to stay with us through the most difficult time in the clubs history.

I believe he made his debut away at Derby when we were last in the Premiership, under the guidance of Coppell and Noades. After that Lombardo and Sparrow became temporary managers. SO that is 3 managers and a relegation to deal with in your first senior spell.

The following season Messrs Venables and Goldberg arrived culminating in the Crystal Palace revolution, unfortunately things didn't go according to plan and within a month or two DOOM and GLOOM proceeded.
Venables went, Goldberg went, followed by Shipperly, Svensson, Moore, Petric, Jansen, Bent, Hreidarsson, Lombardo and Curcic, to name a few.

Mullins, who was given his chance in the first team for the first time this season suddenly found the foundations of the club rocked greatly by our financial plight. Then in came Coppell, the saviour, Mullins played a vital role in the team staying up even though the clubs future was far from certain!

The following season could have been our last, but thanks to Mullins, Clinton and Co. we stayed up and soon after the seasons finish we were saved by Simon Jordan.

So, at this point Mullins had 3 different chairman, (4 if you include Peter Morley), and 5 different managers, which was soon to become 6 with the appointment of Alan Smith.

That season we struggled in the league, and dressing room politics meant Mullins, MOrrison and Smith were transfer-listed. Only, to be later taken off the list and for Mullins and Morrison to get new deals!

A seventh manager ensued after Smith left, namely Steve Kember, He did what we thought was the impossible and kept us up, not forgetting the legendary Dougie Freedman!

In the summer Bruce was brought in and we were top only for him to walk out, Kember took charge for 3 games, then the Trevor Francis era began and still remains today - and long may it continue in my opinion!!!

SO in a short career so far of 5 years Hayden has had 10 managers and 3 chairman, that shows loyalty to stay with us and love for the club in my opinion.

And, some question if Mullins heart is in Crystal Palace!
I think if he has been through this with us he deserves a certain amount of respect, DON'T YOU?????

Sir.S.C Remembered
17-08-2002, 12:28 AM
Very loyal servant who I believe we should make CAPTAIN as we could build a side around him, IF he were to regain his form from Coppell years or his defensive form from Bruce's reign, however considering the climate of the market if a straight up 2.2m pffer were to come in I'd take it and I never say that about youngsters who I rate!

pete eagle
17-08-2002, 12:35 AM
Mullins is one of the best tacklers in the division, i nominated him for player of the season for his consistently good performances at the back, there were games when he didn't seem to miss a tackle and he pulled off tackles that looked impossible. Unfortunately his passing has let him down at the tail end of last season and the start of this season when before it was one of his major assets and was praised for it

Walrus
17-08-2002, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Jaffa


Yeah, but the accesibility of the Internet in China means you never quite went away :rolleyes:

Coochy boochy boo... cry to mummy because I used profanities.

How I wish the "Great Wall of China" Internet firewall blocked the BBS for our Chinese "friends"

Out of order Jaffa. Shame, as you sometimes make a fair bit of sense. Methinks I'll just scroll down the page from now on.

Wish I was a moderator.....or I had a direct line to Slugger Trev. He'd sort you out.

Walrus
17-08-2002, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by Fatboynotsoslim
Might as well throw my views in as well !!!

2.2M for Mullins, in todays market is excellent value - I would certainly let him go for that.

I would then bid 1.5M for Dave Prutton of Forest - absolute quality, far better than Mullins and with Forests desperate financial situation , they would probably sell at that price.


Oh, how true Fatboy. Apart from the bit about Forest probably selling, which I am not so sure about. Although I wish it were true......Prutton is pretty much twice the player Mullins is, and that's not meant as an insult to Mullins either.

I have a feeling that Prutton is very happy at Forest where he is the main man, and that the club will sell off the trophy cabinet before considering bids for him.

StevieCsredandbluearmy
17-08-2002, 12:59 AM
So we pay 2.4 million for Alinbiyi and sell Mullins for 2.2million. Great financial brain, Francis. Pity it is not as good as your right hook. Having bought two of our best players (yes, Kirowski was under Bruce) and maybe about to sign a third, perhaps Bruce would also take those donkeys Harrison, Austin and particularly Akinbiyi. We can only hope someone will buy them.

The only bright note I can see is Butterfield who was superb on Tuesday night and stood out as a class player. When do you think he will be off?

lees eagles
17-08-2002, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by StevieCsredandbluearmy
So we pay 2.4 million for Alinbiyi and sell Mullins for 2.2million. Great financial brain, Francis. Pity it is not as good as your right hook. Having bought two of our best players (yes, Kirowski was under Bruce) and maybe about to sign a third, perhaps Bruce would also take those donkeys Harrison, Austin and particularly Akinbiyi. We can only hope someone will buy them.

The only bright note I can see is Butterfield who was superb on Tuesday night and stood out as a class player. When do you think he will be off?

Don't people ever stop!!!!

Leave Akinbiyi alone!

He has one bad season caused by fans like you lowering his confidence. Ade is quality everywhere he has been, Norwich, Bristol City, Gillingham, Wolves and Leicester(until he was treated disgracefully).

I like Akinbiyi, if you don't that is your problem, you are being totally unfair basing your opinions on last season where no player could have played well under that much pressure.

elgin eagle
17-08-2002, 01:12 AM
I think we should play the long game here. Given how close we came to going under before, the size of the current squad, the current weekly wage bill, the state of every football clubs' finances, and the way football is heading, i really feel we should take the money for Mullins (if indeed it is a geniune offer), and plow it into the Academy. By scouting and acquiring as many of the top young players in the South East now, we will be in a strong position to replace our current young squad in 5 or 6 years time when it will be required.

We have enough untried players now to be going on with, lets give them a chance and keep our options open for now. I know there are bargains to be had in the transfer market, but our squad is too big already. The only blessing is that 9/10ths of them are the right age.

There isnt a bountiful supply of Simon Jordans unfortunately, lets first own a ground, stop losing x per year, and then when we have some income coming in, look at how it should best be spent.

I can tell you know, it won't be by getting Wise in on 15k a week.

palacefan_72
17-08-2002, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by Tor
Make it 2m, and add Bryan Hughes to the deal.
Then I would go for it.

totally agree

plus francis is a total and utter <unt,he takes all our best players

StevieCsredandbluearmy
17-08-2002, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by lees eagles


Don't people ever stop!!!!

Leave Akinbiyi alone!

He has one bad season caused by fans like you lowering his confidence. Ade is quality everywhere he has been, Norwich, Bristol City, Gillingham, Wolves and Leicester(until he was treated disgracefully).

I like Akinbiyi, if you don't that is your problem, you are being totally unfair basing your opinions on last season where no player could have played well under that much pressure.

Depends what you define as quality and if yiou think he is worth 2.4 million of anyone's money, you are off your trolley. Actually, some players did play well last season, even under Francis. Nothing would please me better than to see Akinbiyi come good at Palace but, I doubt, it will happen. Anyway, back to the thread and I want Mullins to stay, if he has the enthusiasm under Francis, who has still to convince me and others that he is up to the job as a manager, particularly after his latest spat.

Malakite
17-08-2002, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered
Very loyal servant who I believe we should make CAPTAIN as we could build a side around him, IF he were to regain his form from Coppell years or his defensive form from Bruce's reign, however considering the climate of the market if a straight up 2.2m pffer were to come in I'd take it and I never say that about youngsters who I rate!

Agreed when he was captian last season it made him an even better player

lees eagles
17-08-2002, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by StevieCsredandbluearmy


Depends what you define as quality

Well I call quality a striker who score lots of goals, and yes, Akinbiyi has scored lots of goals therefore I class him as quality!:)

John.K
17-08-2002, 02:16 AM
2.2 million great deal (accept if true). He just doesnt look like he can improve here let him move on and use the money to get an attacking midfielder! :p :D

John.K
17-08-2002, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by lees eagles


Well I call quality a striker who score lots of goals, and yes, Akinbiyi has scored lots of goals therefore I class him as quality!:)

Akinkbiyi gives 110% every match never stops chasing back and running round the field! He''ll be scoring hatfuls when he returns from injury!:)

wedgetail
17-08-2002, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by Walrus

true Fatboy. Apart from the bit about Forest probably selling, and that the club will sell off the trophy cabinet before considering bids for him.

At Forest even the trophy cabinet is in hock. They lost 15 Million last year, on 13M income, that qualifies as broke.

lees eagles
17-08-2002, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by John.K


Akinkbiyi gives 110% every match never stops chasing back and running round the field! He''ll be scoring hatfuls when he returns from injury!:)

I agree 100%:)

rednbluevegas
17-08-2002, 04:26 AM
This is a bad deal for Palace at this time.

Mullins is someone who we have struggled to fit into the side. Some prefer him at sweeper, others in midfield, Mullins himself has said he prefers right back! My view is that he is very gifted and that midfield is his best position, although I admit of late he has hardly taken control of games from that position.

However, he is really low on confidence at the moment and is clearly missing his youth team colleague in Morrison. Mullins is just 23 and has nearly 200 senior apperances under his belt - that makes him a bargain at 2.2m and Bruce knows this.

Most importantly though in my opinion is that Mullins has been a feature of the rebnblue shirt longer than any other member of the team now, and we cannot just keep casting of those players who have been with us a while. A club needs heart on the pitch and someone who knows the club - Mullins at the moment (with Austin) knows where we have been and has an understanding of what Palace is about. He should be made skipper and the offer refused.

asylomisedeagle
17-08-2002, 04:38 AM
why does any1 wana sell a first team player?! if hes that crap why r clubs looking at him2? +when he played in central midfield 4a whole season he scored over 10 league goals so keep him settled in 1 position there!! + wud hate 2c him sold just 2 pay wise wages if he came wud b criminal!!

yorkshire eagle
17-08-2002, 05:00 AM
some very strainge views here carnt understand those wanting stewart???? i live near ipswich and my town surporting friends to a man HATE stewart. everyone with some contact in the club says hes arragant insultng and very derisory to the younger players, just heard 1 story tonight about him running down young ambrose to some of the lads to find out he heard him:rolleyes:
my friend in sheffield who i rang tonight says brown is quality and that the blades do need the money and he thinks 2 million would be ample infact he says that 1.5 and the board would find it hard to say no;)
the truth is mullns isnt quality in our division sorry 1 great game 3 bad ones i know i dont do ever home game but whenever i have seen him play he has always disopointed me brown or powell (ex derby) would be a better bet:D

The Vicar
17-08-2002, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
If an old 'un can just chip in between all you testosterone-charged young 'uns ;) I would just like to say that during my 30+ years following Palace there have been a number of players that I never wanted to see leave. Off the top of my head:

Don Rogers
Peter Taylor
Ian Wright (at about 32 years of age, I nearly cried when I heard he was going :eek: )
Nigel Martyn

...and probably a few others.

In recent years, I haven't become attached to any particular player in the same way. I like Mullins; I think he has loads of potential.

But 2.2 million would represent a very fair price on what he has achieved so far and it's probably time for him to move and see if he can make the step up that a change of scenery would require anyway.

If he goes, good luck to him.

I agree with your sentiments, but don't sell Mullins. He'll help us get to the Premiership and stay there!

Steve in Phoenix
17-08-2002, 06:54 AM
2.2 million?

No thanks.

Im very happy with the squad depth as it is and Mullins is a key part of that. Selling him and replacing him with try-hards is not the way to go. If he wants to go, then fair enough, otherwise I think its a bad idea.

Glaws Eagle
17-08-2002, 11:39 AM
I just heard from my mate that Mullins "may" be going.

And I cant believe you lot on here are happy with the deal.

Along with Freedman, he is our best player.

If we sell our best players where will we end up? Doesnt take a genius to realise if we want to get back into the Premiership we need to buy no sell. That is if SJ wants to get back up?!?!

Beanie
17-08-2002, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by asylomisedeagle
why does any1 wana sell a first team player?! if hes that crap why r clubs looking at him2? +when he played in central midfield 4a whole season he scored over 10 league goals so keep him settled in 1 position there!! + wud hate 2c him sold just 2 pay wise wages if he came wud b criminal!!

Trying to sort out the gibberish here - nobody is saying that Mullins is a bad player, just that 2.2m, if true, is too good a deal to turn down.

HAving said that - as it appears nowhere in the press it's either being done quietly or was utter garbage from the start. The later I expect, probably as a result of the stories about Wise.

PeterH
17-08-2002, 04:08 PM
There really is some differences of opinhion here, ranging between very good to useless. I cannot believe how split we are.

brighton_eagle
17-08-2002, 04:20 PM
I honestly thought that Mullins was one of our best players for the first half of last season. He seems much more comfortable playing a sweeper role in a back three, where his reading of the game can be the most beneficial.

I can only repeat that I wouldn't sell him at the moment. He seems to benefit from playing a regular position, and too often has not had the opportunity to, due largely to his ability to play a number of positions. I would agree that the offer sounds a reasonable one, in the current climate, but, if we don't need to sell, we should hold onto him for at least another season, play him in a back three and make him captain. He is nowhere near as bad a player as some people are suggesting.

StevieCsredandbluearmy
18-08-2002, 02:11 PM
There seems to be a rumout going the rounds that SJ spent the summer trying to offload Morrison, Mullins and Gray to premier clubs to try and recoup some of his money. If this is true then it does not bode well for the furure of the club. With Morrison gone, I would think that Mullins must be keen to join him at scumtown and when Gray is fit, who knows?

I hope I am wrong but nothing would surprise me at Palace. Mullins is a gifted player who plays best as sweeper and we certainly could have done with him there in the second half yesterday with the defence leaking like a sieve. What worried me yesterday was the way the team ran out of ideas after they went behind.

Htht-H
18-08-2002, 02:30 PM
Mullins sums up Palace in every way. When he is good he is brilliant but when he is poor he is terrible. That is probably why there are so many conflictions. The problem is when he plays as a sweeper (probably the least challenging position in the team) every mistake he seems to make costs us a goal.

I personally feel that 2.2 million is a lot of money these dark financial days and we should take it.

PS When Jordan accepted the money for Morrison did he not use the funds for new players and their wages. I feel we should not be so hard on Jordan, if he wanted some of his money back to help buy SP from shylock then I for one would feel more secure.

StevieCsredandbluearmy
18-08-2002, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Htht-H
Mullins sums up Palace in every way. When he is good he is brilliant but when he is poor he is terrible. That is probably why there are so many conflictions. The problem is when he plays as a sweeper (probably the least challenging position in the team) every mistake he seems to make costs us a goal.

I personally feel that 2.2 million is a lot of money these dark financial days and we should take it.

PS When Jordan accepted the money for Morrison did he not use the funds for new players and their wages. I feel we should not be so hard on Jordan, if he wanted some of his money back to help buy SP from shylock then I for one would feel more secure.

I agree with you up to a point but it is no good getting rid of the quality players if you do not bring in quality replacements and for example from I saw of adebola yesterday he is a strong runner and not much else (ring any bells). Also Granville worries me defensively. He was roasted in the second half by Taylor yesterday and the same thing happened for the Bradford goal on Tuesday. Left back is an achilles heel for Palace. Shame we could not have signed Ashley Cole!!!!

Htht-H
18-08-2002, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by StevieCsredandbluearmy


I agree with you up to a point but it is no good getting rid of the quality players if you do not bring in quality replacements and for example from I saw of adebola yesterday he is a strong runner and not much else (ring any bells). Also Granville worries me defensively. He was roasted in the second half by Taylor yesterday and the same thing happened for the Bradford goal on Tuesday. Left back is an achilles heel for Palace. Shame we could not have signed Ashley Cole!!!!

I heard from a reliable source that 1 million would have bought Ashley Cole but our sitation at the time wouldn't allow us to. Is that not the best example of being secure and stable in our own stadium.

See the other thread on "what you would prefer"

BUNGLE
18-08-2002, 03:00 PM
I'm not a big Mullins fan, but it will be a big loss if we lose him as he holds the key to Palace's formations on the pitch and his verstility is vital to how we change during matches. If we lose Mullins we become alot less flexible and alot more predictable.

Htht-H
18-08-2002, 03:04 PM
I suppose it doesn't help when he is constantly being switched within the team and now playing on the left side.

Clint Eastwood might be "The Man with no Name" Trevor is "The Man with no idea"

StevieCsredandbluearmy
18-08-2002, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Htht-H
I suppose it doesn't help when he is constantly being switched within the team and now playing on the left side.

Clint Eastwood might be "The Man with no Name" Trevor is "The Man with no idea"

How can you say such a thing about Francis when he was brought in by SJ who has such a wonderful track record with managers. At least, he is better than Alan Smith although that is not saying much. I give Francis until the end of the season and if we are nowhere, he will be on his bike.

Completely agree on your comments about Mullins which I think someone else pointed out. Play him as a sweeper and keep him there. Unfortunately, this is unlikely with our master tactician come manager come prize fighter.

lees eagles
18-08-2002, 11:37 PM
Well, unfortunately it looks like Mullins played his last game for us yesterday as I found this quote on the Birmingham rivals.net page:

"The Mercury also states Blues hope to tie up the 2.2 million signing of Hayden Mullins this week."

Flying Higher
19-08-2002, 02:29 AM
I would like to keep Mullins - but if necessary Tim Cahill at 1.75 would be a good replacement leaving us with enough to buy a decent left back from the Gills.

Who Cares?
19-08-2002, 02:59 AM
Extract from the local Birmingham paper saying that HM WILL be joining them this week (for 2.2m);

Mullins will offer Blues serious strength in the centre of the park thanks to his physical presence, ball control and passing skills. He will also weigh in with plenty of goals thanks to his passion for moving into threatening attacking positions.
Mullins will battle with Bryan Hughes for the crucial role of attacking midfield force.


So that is what we will be missing see?

IMHO HM has gone as far as he is going to with us. He is never going to have a settled role with us and needs a new challenge, although as with Clinton not sure Birmingham is the right one. I have felt for a year or more that he has underachieved at Palace but think that with the right move he could emulate Southgate.
Pity to see him go but if it enables us to pick up someone like Brown from Sheff Utd, it might be a good deal.

What?
19-08-2002, 05:34 AM
I would prefer 2.5mill, but i would not be too disapointed. HE has gone stale and i cant see it changing anytime soon!

pedro
19-08-2002, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Flying Higher
I would like to keep Mullins - but if necessary Tim Cahill at 1.75 would be a good replacement leaving us with enough to buy a decent left back from the Gills.

As far as I understand Villa had a 5m bid for him turned down so I doubt we would get him for 1.75m.

nookiebear
19-08-2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle
He is nowhere near as bad a player as some people are suggesting.


He's not a bad player - I even think the Premiership would suit him more then Div 1. I just don't think we can take him any further, and 2.2m is a lot of cash right now for any player. We could buy another midfielder with cash and have some spare.

Cleon
19-08-2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by pedro
As far as I understand Villa had a 5m bid for him turned down so I doubt we would get him for 1.75m.

There are a lot of names being tossed around here as possible replacements, but very few of them are realistic. Do you seriously think Millwall will be selling Cahill to us for 1.75m, or even 2.2m? Although the market is depressed, clubs are still aware (unlike many Palace fans it seems) of the rarity of a young, talented, centre midfielder. Someone you can build a team around.

Of all the players mentioned, Michael Brown is probably the best, but you'd have to offer more than 2.2m to get him, and then you have to pay him greater wages than Hayden as he would be in a very strong bargaining position.

People talk about getting into the Premiership, and attempting to stay up. Players like Hayden Mullins (and recently departed Clinton Morrison) are the sort of players you need to achieve that goal. That's why Bruce is back trying to get his dirty little mitts on our youngsters. Does anybody serious believe that Dele Adebola would score often in the Premiership? Neither, clearly, did Steve Bruce.

What we do with Mullins represents our ambition. If we sell him, then we confirm the fact that we are nothing more than First Divison club (at best) trying for occasional paydays from a season in the Premiership. It confirms that we are a Watford, nothing more. We should be aiming for more than that. When our academy produces players like Mullins, we should be coaching them into the sort of players that will allow us to be a success in the very best division, not selling them after subjecting them to a stream of managers and coaches.

brighton_eagle
19-08-2002, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by nookiebear



He's not a bad player - I even think the Premiership would suit him more then Div 1. I just don't think we can take him any further, and 2.2m is a lot of cash right now for any player. We could buy another midfielder with cash and have some spare.

We could. But I think we need to have some consistency. Other wise, we have a team that contains:

Derry
Adebola
Johnson
Butterfield
Powell
Mullins replacement

6 new players.......that means time to gel and get playing together.

Don't think Francis has that time?

P P P Palace
19-08-2002, 02:10 PM
I am one of Hayden's biggest fans, but I think he would benefit from a move.

No one has got the best out of Mullins for the past year or so and moving to pastures new will improve him as a player.

If he stays with us for too much longer without a new contact we will loose money on him

Malakite
19-08-2002, 02:35 PM
lets get what we can for him (1.5/2m??)

PeterH
19-08-2002, 02:50 PM
Lets have it in cash not promisory notes. I reiterate if Brum want to unsettle players etc.. let them at least have the cash to do it. A carrot of 2.2m is offered to perk up SJs ears, then we get something like 750k, a player and 500k only if they stay up. S@d that, oh and the bid supposedly stands at 2.2m not 1.5m, see its started its downward negotiation already at least amongst us.

pedro
19-08-2002, 04:34 PM
Maybe those Grainger rumours will start again regarding some sort of swop deal because I do not think Brum have the money to do a straight cash deal.

nookiebear
19-08-2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle


We could. But I think we need to have some consistency. Other wise, we have a team that contains:

Derry
Adebola
Johnson
Butterfield
Powell
Mullins replacement

6 new players.......that means time to gel and get playing together.

Don't think Francis has that time?

Pompey had something like 10 new players on Sat.

If it's Trev's side then, while it will need time to gel, it should at least want to play for him.

Justy C
19-08-2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by PeterH
Lets have it in cash not promisory notes. I reiterate if Brum want to unsettle players etc.. let them at least have the cash to do it. A carrot of 2.2m is offered to perk up SJs ears, then we get something like 750k, a player and 500k only if they stay up. S@d that, oh and the bid supposedly stands at 2.2m not 1.5m, see its started its downward negotiation already at least amongst us.

I noticed that as well. My understanding of the negotiating thing in life was that you make a low bid expecting to be pushed higher, not lower than you originally offered. But this is Palace after all. And I never understand this '+500,000 if you stay up' clause. Thats their problem, why should the club be willing Brum to stay up so that they get more money?

Baloo
19-08-2002, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Who Cares?
Extract from the local Birmingham paper saying that HM WILL be joining them this week (for 2.2m);

Mullins will offer Blues serious strength in the centre of the park thanks to his physical presence, ball control and passing skills. He will also weigh in with plenty of goals thanks to his passion for moving into threatening attacking positions.
Mullins will battle with Bryan Hughes for the crucial role of attacking midfield force.


Umm, does anyone actually place any value on this quote? Physical presence, plenty of goals, attacking midfield force?! Come on, the Brum paper thinks it ought to write something about the rumour, but can only make up something to flesh out the basics, and the writer obviously doesn't know that Mullins has spent most of the last three seasons in defence.

I wouldn't be writing Hayden's eulogy just yet.

yorkshire eagle
19-08-2002, 07:30 PM
ile tell you something for free after watching brum get torn apart by a arsenal team that never looked like thay went out of 1st gear if mullins is to battle for a place with hughes then he will play 38 reserve games then get sold on a free when brum come down he is not half the player of hughes sorry my opinion :p

Axie
19-08-2002, 08:26 PM
From Ananova....

Mullins set for Blues move

Hayden Mullins is set to sign for Birmingham next week in a 2.2 million deal.

Mullins will follow Crystal Palace team mates Jovan Kirovski and Clinton Morrison to St Andrew's in a deadline-beating swoop.

The Birmingham Evening Mail say Steve Bruce has been eyeing Mullins ever since quitting Selhurst Park last season.


Story filed: 16:20 Monday 19th August 2002

WorthingEagle
19-08-2002, 11:50 PM
"Mullins will offer Blues serious strength in the centre of the park thanks to his physical presence, ball control and passing skills. He will also weigh in with plenty of goals thanks to his passion for moving into threatening attacking positions.

Mullins will battle with Bryan Hughes for the crucial role of attacking midfield force."

HAHAHA. Physical presence? Passing skills? Weigh in with goals? ATTACKING MIDFIELD FORCE?? :D :D

In my opinion Mullins is overated and far too inconsistent. When on his game he looks Premiership class, but that is far too infrequent. Most of the time he's a liability with his lazy passes to nobody/opposition/out of touch. If he could get his act together he could slot in nicely next to Derry, but he seems to play best as the left centre-back of a three, bringing the ball out like no-one else in the league can. Unfortunately he then proceeds to waste possesion anyway....

It's a tough decision but I'd sell Mullins for 2.2m. As the signing of Derry showed there are bargains to be had and we can pick up a more effective and consistent player than Hayden with plenty of change to spare.

AJ
20-08-2002, 01:27 AM
I have to say in the current climate, it's hard to believe any Palace player is worth 1m, let alone 2m.

Jordan is probably sh1tting himself, hoping this is not a wind up.

Thatch
20-08-2002, 10:13 AM
[
In my opinion Mullins is overated and far too inconsistent. When on his game he looks Premiership class, but that is far too infrequent. Most of the time he's a liability with his lazy passes to nobody/opposition/out of touch. If he could get his act together he could slot in nicely next to Derry, but he seems to play best as the left centre-back of a three, bringing the ball out like no-one else in the league can. Unfortunately he then proceeds to waste possesion anyway....

Perhaps he just needs a decent coach?:p

Martin H
20-08-2002, 01:36 PM
Birmingham City are expected to wrap up a deal for Crystal Palace striker Hayden Mullins by next week.
The Blues will offer Palace 2.2 million for the young attacker, who is keen to be reunited with his former boss.

Blues manager Steve Bruce has been monitoring Mullins' progress since leaving Palace last season.

Tribalfootball has the above. Shame to be losing another striker huh ? ? ? ? ?

AJ1969
20-08-2002, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by WorthingEagle
"Mullins will offer Blues serious strength in the centre of the park thanks to his physical presence, ball control and passing skills. He will also weigh in with plenty of goals thanks to his passion for moving into threatening attacking positions.

Mullins will battle with Bryan Hughes for the crucial role of attacking midfield force."

HAHAHA. Physical presence? Passing skills? Weigh in with goals? ATTACKING MIDFIELD FORCE?? :D :D

In my opinion Mullins is overated and far too inconsistent. When on his game he looks Premiership class, but that is far too infrequent. Most of the time he's a liability with his lazy passes to nobody/opposition/out of touch. If he could get his act together he could slot in nicely next to Derry, but he seems to play best as the left centre-back of a three, bringing the ball out like no-one else in the league can. Unfortunately he then proceeds to waste possesion anyway....

It's a tough decision but I'd sell Mullins for 2.2m. As the signing of Derry showed there are bargains to be had and we can pick up a more effective and consistent player than Hayden with plenty of change to spare.

I'd sell too. I think he's OK 1st division stuff but not premier quality. 2.2M would give us cash but who would we replace him with? If we have to revert to having Austin and a recovered Harrison in our defence then we can forget getting anything from this season.

Sick Bucket
20-08-2002, 02:05 PM
I don't really want to see Mullins go but think he probably should, agree that he has gone a bit stale and looks like he needs a challenge.
This made me laugh from today's article :

Mullins will offer Blues serious strength in the centre of the park thanks to his physical presence, ball control and passing skills. He will also weigh in with plenty of goals thanks to his passion for moving into threatening attacking positions.

physical presence ? plenty of goals ? sorry ?

David of Kent
20-08-2002, 02:07 PM
Reading those reports about what type of player Mullins is, I have a feeling Brum fans are going to get quite a shock when they see him play :eek:

Cleon
20-08-2002, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by David of Kent
Reading those reports about what type of player Mullins is, I have a feeling Brum fans are going to get quite a shock when they see him play

When Mullins is played in the middle of the park, and given some freedom, he often goes forward into attacking positions and is always looking to play the through ball. I think Birmingham will get themselves a bargain if this moves come about, and I also think Crystal Palace will be left in a weaker position.

Despite criticism from certain quarters of our fanbase, Mullins has been played (in a variety of positions) by every single one of the managers he has played for in the last few years.

Will S
20-08-2002, 02:36 PM
I like Mullins a lot as a player, but like CM the time is probably right for player and for club. Can't blame Bruce for knowing a good player when he sees one !
One just trusts that the 5-6 Million we've made from Brum (or will make) is doing something significant for the club !

muffdaddy
20-08-2002, 02:57 PM
If only we'd use the Mullins money to buy say Marcus Stewart. Not to mention another couple of defenders, because just like last season they are dropping like flies already.

Al From Bromley
20-08-2002, 03:05 PM
Does no one remember at the fans night last season when TF was talking about MUllins? He said that Mullins when asked what position he preferred playing in, replied "right back boss". So if Brum think they are getting an attacking midfielder who will score plenty of goals, theyve got another think coming. He's a right back/utility player who drifts between defence and midfield. I'd take the money.

Cleon
20-08-2002, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Al from Bromley
Does no one remember at the fans night last season when TF was talking about MUllins? He said that Mullins when asked what position he preferred playing in, replied "right back boss". So if Brum think they are getting an attacking midfielder who will score plenty of goals, theyve got another think coming. He's a right back/utility player who drifts between defence and midfield. I'd take the money.

I remember that quote at the time, and thinking it was very strange. Mullins was adament he didn't like playing as a right back when Alan Smith had played him there, and I suspect TF made a mistake/was having a laugh/whatever.

Mullins is not a right back. Last season he told Steve Bruce that he liked playing the centre of midfield, a position Bruce moved him into after changing formations against Leyton Orient, which I think is probably closer to the truth.

Barnstormer
20-08-2002, 05:49 PM
I have been reading these posts and there is a large difference in opinion. I personally agree with Cleon.

I will be sad to see Mullins go and am worried to see who will be next. Trevor Francis seems to be hell bent in getting in his men and changing the team completely. I hope for the better.

Mullins has been mucked around and not been allowed to settle in any position. He should in my opinion play in Midfield.

He is always available for a pass, can run with the ball , makes space for himself. All signs of a good player.

I think he tackles well and wins a fair number of balls in the air.

The area which everyone looks at is his passing which can be a bit wayward but generally it is good and can be inventive.

Derry on what I saw Saturday also is was available for a pass and if only Francis had played Mullins in midfield instead of Thompson that had the makings of a good unit Derry Mullins Aki.

Derry and Mullins always in space picking up the passes and Aki covering every inch of the pitch breaking up opposition moves and powering into the box to get his head on a cross.

I was feeling positive about the midfield.

Granville could play in the back as he keeps getting caught upfield and has trouble playing the wingback role.

But Trevor or Simon wants to sell Mullins.

I think its one step forward, two steps back at the moment.

My prediction this year is 14th.

Perhaps they are rebuilding and need a year to allow Routledge and
Williams to develop.

Time will tell

Cleon
20-08-2002, 06:36 PM
Agree with most of that.

To back up some of my points re: Mullins being played out of position, and should be used in a more attacking midfielder role, may I suggest the doubters visit the achieve site at:

http://www.palace-eagles.com/archives/movies9900.html

where you can check out some of his goals from the Coppell era. You can clearly note that he is allowed to roam upfield, often overlapping with the strikers. You can also see what a threat he can pose in the air when used properly.

With Mullins given free reign again, alongside Derry, we might have a chance of getting out of this division.

Streatham man
20-08-2002, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Barnstormer
I have been reading these posts and there is a large difference in opinion. I personally agree with Cleon.

I will be sad to see Mullins go and am worried to see who will be next. Trevor Francis seems to be hell bent in getting in his men and changing the team completely. I hope for the better.

Mullins has been mucked around and not been allowed to settle in any position. He should in my opinion play in Midfield.

He is always available for a pass, can run with the ball , makes space for himself. All signs of a good player.

I agree with both you and Cleon. Mullins is class, which will be demonstrated if he is allowed to settle into the centre midfield position. Bruce, who is a good manager, knows this. TF, who isn't, doesn't.

Streatham man
20-08-2002, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
Agree with most of that.

To back up some of my points re: Mullins being played out of position, and should be used in a more attacking midfielder role, may I suggest the doubters visit the achieve site at:

http://www.palace-eagles.com/archives/movies9900.html

where you can check out some of his goals from the Coppell era. You can clearly note that he is allowed to roam upfield, often overlapping with the strikers. You can also see what a threat he can pose in the air when used properly.

With Mullins given free reign again, alongside Derry, we might have a chance of getting out of this division.

Excellent post, Cleon. Agree 100%. We're selling off our best young players, disrupting the team, and hoping that TF and SJ will make good use of the money. We should be developing our young players to make them even more valuable to the club.

bnmth eagle
20-08-2002, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Streatham man


I agree with both you and Cleon. Mullins is class, which will be demonstrated if he is allowed to settle into the centre midfield position. Bruce, who is a good manager, knows this. TF, who isn't, doesn't.

Thats why Bruce played him on the left side of a back 3 then.

Streatham man
20-08-2002, 07:58 PM
Bruce played him in different positions, presumably as a result of Mullins' versatility and the lack of depth in the squad.

alexthefatdawg
20-08-2002, 08:39 PM
Nice to see this joke on a website

He will also weigh in with plenty of goals thanks to his passion for moving into threatening attacking positions.

No mention of the sudden rush of blood then

Louis
20-08-2002, 08:41 PM
Mullins is very inconsistent, loses the ball too much and telegraphs his passes. 2.2 million is far too much money to refuse, and is a fantastic bit of business if it goes through. Most of Francis's buys have been excellent, and he is gradually strengthening the team.

Steve in Phoenix
20-08-2002, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Streatham man
Bruce played him in different positions, presumably as a result of Mullins' versatility and the lack of depth in the squad.

But Bruce is a good manager for doing this and Francis isnt? The sheer po-facedness among TF bashers is astonishing..

Anyway I'll just restate I do not want to see Mullins gone. Even if he has played poorly at times he was still behind half of our few goals thus far. Replacing him means finding at least 2 players (a defender and midfielder).

Streatham man
20-08-2002, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix


But Bruce is a good manager for doing this and Francis isnt? The sheer po-facedness among TF bashers is astonishing..



Don't quite understand your point. All I'm saying is that Bruce probably better understands Mullins' ability and potential given the fact that he appears willing to pay a fair price for him. Both TF and Bruce have played Mullins in different positions given his versatility and the lack of squad depth. I hope I'm wrong and TF/SJ keep Mullins, and don't sell him to the traitor.

We agree on the major issue: is it better to keep Mullins or sell him? I say keep him, which is what you are saying as well.

lees eagles
20-08-2002, 09:50 PM
I would be surprised if Martin Grainger didn't come to us in part exchange.:p

RichieG
20-08-2002, 10:12 PM
I would be very upset to see Mullins go as I think he is a key part of what makes up our strongest team, and also has the versatility to drop back into defence when people are injured or suspended (as currently).

We couldn't get equal value to the team from 2.2m

Al From Bromley
20-08-2002, 10:56 PM
I've never been entirely sure about Mullins. On his day can be briliant then on others not at the races at all. His nickname "Caj" (short for casual) doesnt inspire if it refers to his attitude at times on the pitch.

Steve in Phoenix
21-08-2002, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by Streatham man


Don't quite understand your point. All I'm saying is that Bruce probably better understands Mullins' ability and potential given the fact that he appears willing to pay a fair price for him. Both TF and Bruce have played Mullins in different positions given his versatility and the lack of squad depth. I hope I'm wrong and TF/SJ keep Mullins, and don't sell him to the traitor.

We agree on the major issue: is it better to keep Mullins or sell him? I say keep him, which is what you are saying as well.

Fair enough. Sorry, I was just irritatible this morning before getting to work. I thought you were trying to say TF playing Mullins everywhere was evidence of how bad he was compared to SB.

Streatham man
21-08-2002, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix


Fair enough. Sorry, I was just irritatible this morning before getting to work. I thought you were trying to say TF playing Mullins everywhere was evidence of how bad he was compared to SB.

No problemo, Steve. You are a gentleman and a scholar. Hope it's not too hot these days out your way.

Those of us in exile from the UK who are true Palace supporters need to stick together!

rednbluevegas
21-08-2002, 05:14 AM
Keep him! And play him in his best position, as a forward midfielder.

Streatham man
21-08-2002, 05:24 AM
Yeah!

rednbluevegas
21-08-2002, 10:58 AM
I like this bit of the post being the ex-pat boys! Pheonix, Washington and Vegas.

Gooders
21-08-2002, 12:05 PM
Seems to have all gone quiet.

Another non-story?

Art132
21-08-2002, 04:34 PM
Im afraid Mullins will be leaving us soon

Baloo
21-08-2002, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Art132
Im afraid Mullins will be leaving us soon

Is that an opinion or a statement based on fact?

matthew
21-08-2002, 05:39 PM
Well if he does go before Friday why dont we use the money to buy Koumas - Sky are reporting that his deal with the Baggies has fallen through

Gilow
21-08-2002, 05:41 PM
I dont think that we can afford to lose him, he will be missed all over the park!!

wedgetail
21-08-2002, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by matthew
Well if he does go before Friday why dont we use the money to buy Koumas - Sky are reporting that his deal with the Baggies has fallen through

He suddenly realised that there are 70 miles of the M6 between Liverpool and Birmingham.

Walrus
21-08-2002, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by wedgetail


He suddenly realised that there are 70 miles of the M6 between Liverpool and Birmingham.

:o :D :p

Jason
21-08-2002, 07:14 PM
Ok, radical idea time !

How about we sell Mullins to Brum for 2m + Grainger for arguments sake. We then go and buy Martin Rowlands (who is alledgedly available at 400K). At a stroke, we have another left good left back, meaning competition for that place. As mentioned, if prefferred, Granville can play on the left hand side of a centre back three. Suddenly, we've got more options at the back , and a stronger overall squad. In addition, adding Martin Rowlands could solve the "creative midfielder" problem.

Overall then, we'd have 1.6m in the bank (there's no doubt that we will need that money, as while the "Jordan is skint and the club's going broke" brigade should be silenced for a while by now, ALL Div 1 teams will run at a loss this year!), AND a stronger squad (Grainger + Rowlands between them give us more than Mullins in my view). Even if the eventual deal was closer to 1.5m + Grainger, it would still be good business, as we'd have 1.1m and a better squad !.

Still, the above is far to sensible for Palace, and even if it happens, the usual suspects would still pop up and moan !!!!.

Axie
21-08-2002, 07:32 PM
Ananova.......

Rowlands out for a month

Brentford's Martin Rowlands will be out for a month after being diagnosed with scar tissue in his knee.

The midfielder broke down during pre-season training and has failed to feature in Brentford's opening three games this season.

Doctors have prescribed him a period of rest and recuperation before he returns to playing.


Story filed: 14:14 Wednesday 21st August 2002

Jason
21-08-2002, 07:58 PM
Bugger . .that's another good idea down the drain then ! !

AJ
21-08-2002, 08:04 PM
If Mullins goes, why not allow the midfielders we have a chance to prove they can do a job, rather than running out and spending it.

If Palace want the youth players to come through the ranks they need to start showing some of them, that it is still possible to make it into the first team.

BTW Why do we need another defender? We have Berhalter currently playing in the reserves. Does TF realize that?