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It wasn't me!
22-10-2002, 04:07 PM
Curbishley to sign Gray from Palace?

Oct 22 2002


CHARLTON could be set to swoop for Crystal Palace's flying winger Julian Gray.

By Raj Johal, South London Press



Addicks boss Alan Curbishley is a known admirer of the former Arsenal midfielder who signed for the Eagles for £500,000 in 2001.

The Addicks ran the rule over Gray in Palace's 2-2 draw with Wimbledon on Saturday and will have been impressed as the 23-year-old opened the scoring and produced a man-of-the-match performance.

Lewisham-born Gray was voted Palace's Young Player of the Year last season but his contract runs out in the summer - and he has already turned down a new offer made to him this season by Palace chairman Simon Jordan.

The Eagles supremo would love to keep Gray, but has made it clear that some of his top players may have to be sold to ease the financial plight of the club. And Gray is one of his prized assets.

Curbishley, who's side moved off the bottom of the Premiership with a 1-0 home win over Middlesbrough on Sunday, has been trying to land a left-sided player all season.

His move for Japanese star Alex fell through just before the Premiership season's first transfer window closed at the end of August, so Curbishley could move for Gray when it re-opens in January.

Gray's agent Tony Finnigan confirmed: "Julian's contract is up at the end of the season and he's a very ambitious player who wants to play at the top level. He is enjoying his time at Palace but is looking for an improved offer."

If Gray did sign a new deal with Palace, Charlton would have to pay Palace a significant amount in compensation for the rising star.

But if Gray doesn't sign a new deal at Selhurst Park, Charlton could still follow up their interest but will have to pay a fee for him - albeit a reduced one.

That could alert former Palace manager Steve Bruce who, before his move to St Andrews, described the skillful Gray as "Palace's Rivaldo".

Just this week the Blues boss publicly declared that he expects to add three more players to his squad in January. And he hasn't been shy in raiding Palace.

Former Eagles stars Jovan Kirovski and Clinton Morrison have already moved to Birmingham. Former loan defender Steve Vickers is also there, and the Blues held informal discussions with highly-rated Palace midfielder Hayden Mullins in August

brighton_eagle
22-10-2002, 04:10 PM
Palace's Rivaldo....

hehe hehe. Yeah, nice one. :rolleyes:

A promising player, nowhere near the finished article and certainly not MoM on Saturday.

Skin Up
22-10-2002, 04:11 PM
Well I hope Jordan tells Curbishley to piss off, but I'm not confident if we do need the money.

Del Gland
22-10-2002, 04:12 PM
Wasn't Rivaldo a big band leader?

sydney eagle
22-10-2002, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Skin Up
Well I hope Jordan tells Curbishley to piss off, but I'm not confident if we do need the money. He sold Morrison to Brum,if he sells Jules to the Clowns I'll Blow my fecking head off:grrr:

Essexeagle
22-10-2002, 04:17 PM
Errr - if its a choice between selling him to whoever now and making a decent-ish sum, or letting him go in the summer for a pittance then I know which one I would choose.

Julian could always sign a new contract if he didn't want to go anywhere.

Daddy Long
22-10-2002, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Essexeagle

Julian could always sign a new contract if he didn't want to go anywhere.

Not quite. Surely it depends on the terms he's been offered........

For example, if you had joined a company as a trainee Accountant on a contract and then in the time you were at the company become fully qualified, you would expect some sort of pay rise, would you not, in your next contract? If your firm offered you a new contract without improving the terms you would reject it wouldn't you.

Raoul Duke
22-10-2002, 04:49 PM
A question for you all. . .

Does anyone seriously expect Julian to be a Palace player next season?

I say no chance, especially if he wants an improved deal from Simon Jordan. He'll either leave for a small fee in January or for a small amount of compensation at the end of the season. Either way bye bye Julian.

917L
22-10-2002, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!

Gray's agent Tony Finnigan confirmed: "Julian's contract is up at the end of the season and he's a very ambitious player who wants to play at the top level.

Better learn how to cross a ball then hadnt he?

Benzhiyi
22-10-2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
[B

The Addicks ran the rule over Gray in Palace's 2-2 draw with Wimbledon on Saturday and will have been impressed as the 23-year-old opened the scoring and produced a man-of-the-match performance.

[/B]

What game was this hack watching? I definitely saw Gray score. I also saw him remain almost completely anonymous for much of the game.

MoM was Popovic by a mile!

Skin Up
22-10-2002, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
Gray's agent Tony Finnigan confirmed: "Julian's contract is up at the end of the season and he's a very ambitious player who wants to play at the top level.

Then don't go to Charlton, judging from their performances this season so far Gray could find himself back in the 1st division come May.

The Omen
22-10-2002, 04:59 PM
Does anyone else on here think that Gray is not good enough for the Premiership? As long as we get at least £1.5m for him, then he is welcome to leave - he is far to inconsistent for my liking.

brighton_eagle
22-10-2002, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by 917L
Better learn how to cross a ball then hadnt he?

Fair point.

I have to say, I feel Julian is a very promising player, but there are a number of areas of his game that really need working on, if he wants to play at the top level. He is no where near the finished article, but could be an excellent player. His crossing needs improving, as does his goal tally.

On a more general point, I wonder how long it will take for players to realise that they will have to be more realistic about wage demands.

TC EAGLE
22-10-2002, 05:04 PM
Jordan has already stated that players will not be offered improved contracts (money) on expiry, so it looks like Gray just well could be off in the summer. I cannot see him going sooner if Charlton or Birmingham are the only clubs interested, who knows if there in the premiership next season. I fancy Newcastle to show interest in him again cause it looks like this portuguese kid Vianna is not making the grade.

Daddy Long
22-10-2002, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by The Omen
Does anyone else on here think that Gray is not good enough for the Premiership? As long as we get at least £1.5m for him, then he is welcome to leave - he is far to inconsistent for my liking.

I think he is good enough for the Premiership. So apparently does Alan Curbishley. I think we would be mad to sell him. He is one of the few players we have who is comfortable in possession and can go past people. Add to this that he is not playing in his favoured position (behind the front two). It would be another player sale that we would regret in a few years. And who would you propose we replaced him with? Rubins? Do me a favour.

Oz_da_Eagle
22-10-2002, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Benzhiyi
What game was this hack watching? I definitely saw Gray score. I also saw him remain almost completely anonymous for much of the game.

MoM was Popovic by a mile!

Must have been watching the same game as the guy in The Times who gave Popovic the "Stinker" award.

Anyway, looks like bye bye Julz. Hopefully not to Clowntown though.

Daddy Long
22-10-2002, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by TC EAGLE
Jordan has already stated that players will not be offered improved contracts (money) on expiry, so it looks like Gray just well could be off in the summer.

I'm sure Dougie got an improved deal.....

Take into consideration that Gray was signed as a reserve team youngster from Arsenal with no promise of first team football. His wages would have been fairly low. His circumstances are now different in that he is a first team regular (firmly established under Bruce). Can't blame the man for wanting an improved deal. Fair enough if someone like Smith wanted an improved deal because he has been on first team wages for years, but with players like Gray it should be different - an improved deal would safeguard our investment in a player who could fetch us millions in a few years

Glazed&Confuzed
22-10-2002, 05:12 PM
I was a bit nervous about reading some of the responses to this thread. Julian is a very good player, we all know it.:p

But he is far from what he appears to be. If a decent offer came in for him I would find it very tempting. He doesn't score enough goals (I believe he scored only one last season) his crossing is also very poor.:sob:

I think he may have run out of fizz after losing his mate Morrision.;)

But I would like him to stay as I believe he will improve. But if he wants out and there's money available then byee!:love:

Let's see what youth can be tried down that wing.:p

Glazed&Confuzed
22-10-2002, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by TC EAGLE
Jordan has already stated that players will not be offered improved contracts (money) on expiry, so it looks like Gray just well could be off in the summer. I cannot see him going sooner if Charlton or Birmingham are the only clubs interested, who knows if there in the premiership next season. I fancy Newcastle to show interest in him again cause it looks like this portuguese kid Vianna is not making the grade.

But thre reason why Mr Jordan is making claims like that is due to the downturn in football. Football was once in the hands of players' and agents' now it's back with the clubs and the FA.:)

Jordan is only too aware that if the likes of JG want more money there is hardly a big market out there immediately willing to do so because nobody has any!:D

Fair enough a club like Newcaste could buy him I'm sure, but that would be a bridge too far and I'm sure he knows it.:eek:

glaziers fan
22-10-2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by The Omen
Does anyone else on here think that Gray is not good enough for the Premiership? As long as we get at least £1.5m for him, then he is welcome to leave - he is far to inconsistent for my liking.

I can't understand you all. We have talented players playing for our club and none of you can see it! I bet you are one of the people who said Clinton would not make it in the Premiership!

We have real talent at Selhurst, but somehow, TF has been unable to get the best out of his players!!

AND AS FOR JULIAN GRAY'S CROSSING, I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPECCABLE VS WIMBLEDON. There was one overhit cross, i'll grant you that, but the rest were whipped in low and early, behind the defenders, and these are the most difficult to defend against. Well done Julian, keep it up and take us to the Premiership.

I do agree with those of you who thought Popovic was MOM though. He was awesome on saturday, playing in the defence on his own.

brighton_eagle
22-10-2002, 05:24 PM
I would say it was still fairly raw talent though, which, depending on a number of factors such as good coaching, and the player himselfs attitude, may or may not be converted to regular quality performances. I'm not suggesting we should sell him, far from it, but he isn't ready for top flight football yet.

grovesy77
22-10-2002, 05:27 PM
I actually think jules is good enough for the Premier.

We all know that he's not the best crosser of the ball, and that he is prone to drift in and out of games.

But let's be honest he has bags of potential and he's still young. I'd love to see him stay with the Palace i find it difficult to understand what people expect, it's not jules thought we only have one decent attacking left footed option. But why wouldn't any premier league club (especially those in the bottom half) want a pretty low risk gamble.

£500k - £1.0m would seem about right based on the market.

Good Luck Jules

brb rule
22-10-2002, 05:36 PM
So would RUBINS get a game if we sold JULES, i dont reckon he would so might aswell get rid of both of em.

Glazed&Confuzed
22-10-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by brb rule
So would RUBINS get a game if we sold JULES, i dont reckon he would so might aswell get rid of both of em.

I think Rubins' days are numbered don't you? There is obvioulsy a problem there and I believe he is out of contract at the end of the season so I'd imagine he'll hang around 'til then and then take the first plane home.:grrr:

wedgetail
22-10-2002, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by 917L
Better learn how to cross a ball then hadnt he?
if he goes to Charlton I hope not.

c_block_lad
22-10-2002, 05:49 PM
Looks like he could be on his way out, would be better if we could get a fee for him in the transfear windows rather then let him go for nothing

N
22-10-2002, 05:58 PM
CPFC are really starting to pi** me off
Sell the whole lot . It looks like we may go down anyway.

pedro
22-10-2002, 06:19 PM
Gray cares as much for Palace as I do for Brighton. He never saw us as anything other than a stepping stone to further his career and I am fairly sure that he knew the moment he signed his first contract for Palace he was also signing his last one as well.
He is distinctly average who believes in all the hype that you lot keep giving him. He is tricky whilst running with the ball but that is it, his crossing is poor, his goals per game ratio is worse than average and he tackles like a tart who does not want to get injured. Get rid of him, take the money and then find someone who actually wants to play for Palace, or alternatively stop wasting Tommy Black's talent and give him a run in the team.

brighton_eagle
22-10-2002, 06:28 PM
Yup...I do recall Gray saying something along those lines just after he signed, which I felt showed a distinct lack of maturity and common sense.

arussell
22-10-2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Benzhiyi
What game was this hack watching? I definitely saw Gray score. I also saw him remain almost completely anonymous for much of the game.



Hey - I was at that game !

Bye Julian.

Essexeagle
22-10-2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
Not quite. Surely it depends on the terms he's been offered........

For example, if you had joined a company as a trainee Accountant on a contract and then in the time you were at the company become fully qualified, you would expect some sort of pay rise, would you not, in your next contract? If your firm offered you a new contract without improving the terms you would reject it wouldn't you.

So Julian Gray signed on YTS terms? He's hardly set the world on fire has he? If I were on a 6 month contract and at the end of that period was offered a year long extension, I seriously doubt I would be asking for a nice pay hike.

Essexeagle
22-10-2002, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long


Take into consideration that Gray was signed as a reserve team youngster from Arsenal with no promise of first team football. His wages would have been fairly low. His circumstances are now different in that he is a first team regular (firmly established under Bruce). Can't blame the man for wanting an improved deal.

Well his mate Tommy, who was also a reserve team youngster and signed at the same time, managed to get a deal which enables him to drive a £40,000 car. So I'd hardly think they're on the breadline.

Daddy Long
22-10-2002, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Essexeagle
Well his mate Tommy, who was also a reserve team youngster and signed at the same time, managed to get a deal which enables him to drive a £40,000 car. So I'd hardly think they're on the breadline.

I doubt they are. But thats no reason for Gray not to want an improved deal based on the fact that he's a first team regular now aswell as the fact that he is wanted by other clubs. I doubt any player really loves the club they are at unless they've been supporting them for life, so you can't blame them for wanting to better their lot. I'm sure you'd look for another job if you didn't feel you were being paid what you were worth.

BTW, ever heard of HP? ;)

Men At Work
22-10-2002, 07:25 PM
Wasn't it Gray who made a statement at an open day that Palace were the stepping stone to a bigger club? Thanks for the paltry number of goals in almost three seasons, Jules - and especially that missed penalty against Forest. Hope the door doesn't hit you on the @rsť on your way out. Perhaps the rest of the lads will buy you a right foot as a leaving gift.

Essexeagle
22-10-2002, 07:25 PM
I have, my car is on HP, but they won't lend me £40,000 to buy the car I want because I don't earn enough money.

I'd guess that he was on £2-3000 a week, which is plenty for a youngster who has achieved precisely nothing in the game. But then I suppose my beef is as much with the current climate of cloggers earning a fortune than with JG.

917L
22-10-2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by wedgetail
if he goes to Charlton I hope not.

:D

Daddy Long
22-10-2002, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Men At Work
Wasn't it Gray who made a statement at an open day that Palace were the stepping stone to a bigger club? Thanks for the paltry number of goals in almost three seasons, Jules - and especially that missed penalty against Forest. Hope the door doesn't hit you on the @rsť on your way out. Perhaps the rest of the lads will buy you a right foot as a leaving gift.

Is there a problem with that or do you have an inflated notion of what sort of club palace are? As far as I am aware Gray has always been rated highly by people within the game. Arsenal didn't want him to leave but he needed 1st team football. Would you want a player with no ambition playing for us, happy to pick up a wage and never aspire to anything greater? Or do you expect every player to immediately fall in love with the club and never want to leave?

And he scored the penalty against Forest. It was one of his nugget team mates that encroached and made it retaken. :)

It wasn't me!
22-10-2002, 07:47 PM
Some of you are really pathetic. I can't see why your all so negative to the "young player of the year". When he was playing under Steve Bruce, many of you admitted that you were wrong about Julian.

Some seem to admit he has potential but doubt he'll do better. Now that's encouraging.

With regards to using Palace as a stepping stone. Well if that was the case it hasn't done him or anyone else any favours. As for the last couple of seasons Palace haven't exactly done any good.

Just to clear that statement up. Julian's agents are as many of you know Wright, Wright, Wright. Andy Gray, Tony Finnigan and Ian Wright all ex players, so obviously they told Julian that this was a good move. He signed for Coppell and expected Palace to be doing well, he never mentioned it was a stepping stone to go on to bigger clubs, but he meant a stepping stone in furthering his career at Palace.

You all know Alan Smith came in, and totally left Julian out. Some of you may think this was because of AS not rating him but in fact it AS was about as ignorant as some of you. I don't care what anyone says he had a problem with the young black boys at palace. He publicly humiliated Clinton, Hayden and Jules.

What make me laugh, Julian plays well he gets criticised. Dougie plays sh!t he gets praised. I've started to see a pattern in the way you so called supporters think.

Julian has just come back after a big operation, in fact it was touch and go if he'd recover. He has worked extremely hard to make it back into the first team. Fair enough he's come back and not had the best of games but things can only improve as he gets fitter. He does extra training, trains on days off. What else could you ask for? He's committed a lot more than some players.

So he hasn't signed a new contract. So would you? From day one the clubs been inconsistent. What is it 4 managers in two and half seasons, or 5 if you include Kember. Even if SJ offered him a great money contract, it doesn't come down to money at the end of the day. It's about his future.

So as it stands, I personally hope he does well in the future. A player that will be able to do well, and stick two fingers up to all of those that doubted him.

I know you'd hate to admit it, but Julian is going to do well in the premiership if Clinton can Julian can.

As for scoring goals, he's main aim is to make the chances if he is able to score too then that's a bonus.

To end this off, I'd just like to say the BBS has become a sad read. Fans are entitled to their opinion but you lot are constantly slagging players, managers etc off. Obviously your not happy with their current form, but do you really think they are??

The Vicar
22-10-2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
I can't understand you all. We have talented players playing for our club and none of you can see it! I bet you are one of the people who said Clinton would not make it in the Premiership!

We have real talent at Selhurst, but somehow, TF has been unable to get the best out of his players!!

AND AS FOR JULIAN GRAY'S CROSSING, I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPECCABLE VS WIMBLEDON. There was one overhit cross, i'll grant you that, but the rest were whipped in low and early, behind the defenders, and these are the most difficult to defend against. Well done Julian, keep it up and take us to the Premiership.

I do agree with those of you who thought Popovic was MOM though. He was awesome on saturday, playing in the defence on his own.

Quite right! And I'd like to add that I think we should hold onto our best players, and use them as the foundation for building a Div 1 promotion outfit.

Men At Work
22-10-2002, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
Is there a problem with that or do you have an inflated notion of what sort of club palace are? As far as I am aware Gray has always been rated highly by people within the game. Arsenal didn't want him to leave but he needed 1st team football. Would you want a player with no ambition playing for us, happy to pick up a wage and never aspire to anything greater? Or do you expect every player to immediately fall in love with the club and never want to leave?

And he scored the penalty against Forest. It was one of his nugget team mates that encroached and made it retaken. :)

If you'd read any of my posts you'd realise I have a very, very realistic notion of what sort of club Palace are. My problems with Jules are :

1) He didn't even pretend we were anything other than a means to an end. Normally I'd give him credit for honesty but a bit of gilding the lily doesn't go astray.

2) After all this time he *still* doesn't use his right foot. Hillsborough a few weeks ago was a prime example. He cut in from the left and ran across the edge of the area. He was 18 yards out in the middle of the pitch and had only the keeper in front of him. He passed it across goal with his left foot. If he'd shot with his right he would have had a fantastic chance of scoring. I don't know whether it is solely the player's or the coach's fault that a player can't use their non-natural foot after 2 and a bit seasons but I'm prepared to believe both of them are to blame.

3) Tommy Black was the muppet encroaching in the Forest game. That's the only decision of that type I've ever seeen. Look at the recent Watford game where Popovic was well inside the area :

http://www.mistfall.com//photos/images/palacegames/9210222.jpg

That was the only decision that went our way in the match.

And Gray's retaken penalty against Forest was a pretty poor effort.

I've seen him drift out of games to a large extent. When we lost 4-2 at Forest he turned his back on a free kick and didn't even look at the ball until it was in the back of our net. I'm now of the opinion that if a player wants to drag things out then get rid of him ASAP. It's obvious he doesn't want to stay (fair enough for him) so don't leave him around to affect others.

arussell
22-10-2002, 08:05 PM
Have to say I largely agree with Graham's posting. One of his biggest problems is drifting out of position and not paying attention to the game and where he should be on the pitch (Grimsby away springs to mind).

His lack of decent crosses is alarming to say the least, and there doesn't seem to have been any improvement in that over an eighteen month period. If a premier league club wants to take a gamble on him, then good luck to him, in fact, as he may well get much more time on the ball, that will probably suit him more.

"He is enjoying his time at Palace but is looking for an improved offer." tells me all I need to know really.

Football is crashing down around everyone's ears and players are still oblivious to it all :rolleyes:

Daddy Long
22-10-2002, 08:05 PM
MAW:

Blimey you don't want much do you? I don't think I see Henry, Shearer or Owen using their left feet much either...

All of what you've written is a little bit different to what you said in the post before though isn't it. Perhaps you just caught up in the emotion of the anti-Gray sentiment and forgot all reason temporarily.

I think It wasn't me has given the reasons why Gray might not want to stay, and I can't say I'd blame any player for wanting to leave if a better offer comes along. Hardly the most stable ship at Palace are we.

Beanie
22-10-2002, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
Not quite. Surely it depends on the terms he's been offered........

For example, if you had joined a company as a trainee Accountant on a contract and then in the time you were at the company become fully qualified, you would expect some sort of pay rise, would you not, in your next contract? If your firm offered you a new contract without improving the terms you would reject it wouldn't you.


Thats all part of the decision - but he could still sign.

Taking your example - if the firm of accountants are a lot less well off when you are qualified they maight not have the resources to offer you more, or even the same. That doesn't prevent you staying, although it might give you a reason to go. It's still his choice. If he decides to go that's okay by me. I'm afraid he's another who has spent too long showing "potential"

BTW - can anybody find out what SB had been on when he made the Rivaldo comment - I've got to get some!!:p

Daddy Long
22-10-2002, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by arussell
Have to say I largely agree with Graham's posting. One of his biggest problems is drifting out of position and not paying attention to the game and where he should be on the pitch (Grimsby away springs to mind).

His lack of decent crosses is alarming to say the least, and there doesn't seem to have been any improvement in that over an eighteen month period.

Apologies if this sounds rude but you seem to have a pretty antiquated idea of what a winger should do. What good are crosses into the box if we have no-one to convert the chances. The days of wingers like Sinton hugging the touchline are gone. Even out and out wingers like Giggs are drifting more and more infield these days to get involved. It says alot when the best team in the land, Arsenal, are playing people like Llundberg, Toure, Pires on the wings. Men with the ability to cut inside and go past people. The ability to play a through ball to the feet of the strikers rather than lump a long ball onto their heads. This is the type of player Gray could develope into (remember only a couple of seasons ago he was learning from players like these and was played in a more central role). I think you are looking for a set of attributes that not only does he not possess but that he doesn't need either.

Elephant with mouse gyp
22-10-2002, 08:23 PM
Great post Daddy-o.

One of the main things Howard Wilkinson - yes, even him - said he learned in his six years out of the front line was that high crosses are things of the past. I think Francis knows this too, as his experiment with 4-3-3 showed.

Unfortunately, that doesn't mean boring direct football is completely buried, what with the Liverpool/England type fad for long diagonal balls, though even these are usually aimed for the wide player to nip inside onto as they are meant to have cut out the wide defender.

arussell
22-10-2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
Apologies if this sounds rude but you seem to have a pretty antiquated idea of what a winger should do. What good are crosses into the box if we have no-one to convert the chances.


Not at all. I watch wingers all the time and most of them can at least put a decent cross in occassionally :rolleyes: - it's part of the job. Maybe not all of it - but certainly part.

As for having no one on the end of it - apart from Kevin Francis, I don't know of any other "giant" strikers that would be tall enough to reach the balls.

Beanie
22-10-2002, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
Apologies if this sounds rude but you seem to have a pretty antiquated idea of what a winger should do. What good are crosses into the box if we have no-one to convert the chances. The days of wingers like Sinton hugging the touchline are gone. Even out and out wingers like Giggs are drifting more and more infield these days to get involved. It says alot when the best team in the land, Arsenal, are playing people like Llundberg, Toure, Pires on the wings. Men with the ability to cut inside and go past people. The ability to play a through ball to the feet of the strikers rather than lump a long ball onto their heads. This is the type of player Gray could develope into (remember only a couple of seasons ago he was learning from players like these and was played in a more central role). I think you are looking for a set of attributes that not only does he not possess but that he doesn't need either.


Very nice analysis of the role of a winger - now explain how that applies to Gray being out of position? Out of position means being in the wrong place, or at least not being in the right place. When they get the ball the players you mention cut inside, take players on etc does not alter the fact that most (not all) of the time if they are playiung wide left midfield, they get the ball wide left, then cut in etc. The point is that on occasions people look wide left for an out ball and Gray isn't there. Positions in football certainly are much more fluid now, if Gray gets the ball by all means he could cut in and take people on etc, and as he does that somebody else should move out to cover, but basically when he hasn't got the ball he is supposed to be wide left in midfield. If he isn't there he's out of position.

All this stuff about Arsenal is irrelevant - they are superior players and play a different system. Palace need the structure of the 4-4-2 or 3-5-2, and if one player chooses to do his own thing - no matter how well that might fit another clubs system - he is out of position. If when a team mate looks for him he isn't (usually) in the position he's supposed to be he's out of position. Some clubs give some players freedom to roam - but there is no indication that Palace have done that with Gray, so they have a right to expect him to fulfill the role he's been asked to do.

And this isn't about Gray alone - Routledge wide right, Dougie in and around the box, Popovic centre defence. It's where they are supposed to be, and if they aren't they are out of position as well.

Daddy Long
22-10-2002, 08:53 PM
Beanie. Thanks, I thought it was pretty good too.

Can't say I've ever witnessed players looking up for Gray and not seeing him. It certainly isn't as regular an occurrence as you would like it to be.

The stuff about Arsenal certainly isn't irrelevant. Have you forgotten where Gray learnt his trade? Gray learnt from these superior players. Are you privy to training or teamtalks where Gray is told that he certainly does not have a free role? It may well suit your personal opinion of Gray to make stuff like this up but you certainly can't prove it with any truth.

Perhaps I should say certainly again.

pedro
22-10-2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
He does extra training, trains on days off. What else could you ask for?

No, you are right, providing he trains hard and even trains on his days off that's the most important thing, the fact he actually contributes for about 10 minutes of the actual match whilst being a spectator for the rest is irrelevant, keep up the training Julian.

I can see Arsenal's dilemma regarding Gray. Do they let Thierry Henry drift out left whenever he wanted to, did they tell Overmars he had to play right wing or nothing or indeed nowadays pose the same question to Robert Pires ? Tough call that but I am sure if you asked Mr Wenger whether he is happy with Henry/Pires and having Pennant as a young replacement or whether he had missed out by letting Gray go I think I know what the answer would be, don't you?

At what age does potential actually become talent? Michael Owen at 17, Wayne Rooney at 16, Stephen Gerrard at 18, David Beckham at 18, who knows? However, bearing in mind Gray is now 21/22? should we not be past the potential stage by now. He will be no better than the standard he is playing and the sooner he realises this the better for all concerned. He does not have theability/heart to be a Premiership player and the only clubs'reportedly' interested are both more than likely going to be playing first division football anyway. Wayne Carlisle was never good enough to play first division football but how long did we take before the club realised this. The jury is also out on whether Steven Thomson can consistently play at this level and as for Julian Gray there are many amongst us who think he is a 'luxury' on the pitch which we cannot afford, most of the time it is the equivalent of playing with ten men.

Someone archive this thread for another 5 years then reproduce it and let us see where Gray is plying his trade but I can assure you the only way he will see regular Premiership football is on Sky TV with the rest of us.

Elephant with mouse gyp
22-10-2002, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by pedro
Someone archive this thread for another 5 years then reproduce it and let us see where Gray is plying his trade but I can assure you the only way he will see regular Premiership football is on Sky TV with the rest of us.

Even if you are 100% correct about Gray's future, why is it no one else gets judged on this Premiership measure?

No other young player, perhaps apart from Routledge, in our current squad will ever play in the higher reaches of the Premiership. Many of the older players have been found wanting at the higher level.

Forget potential, in terms of the First Division, Gray is an outstandingly skilful player, right here, right now.

Baloo
22-10-2002, 09:12 PM
In response to It Wasn't Me!'s post, I agree entirely (as you'd probably expect me to ;) ). I personally would be gutted to see Julian go to another club, where he will inevitably develop the potential he currently shows.

I know we all have our opinions about various players, and we're each entitled to them, but I am firmly in the camp that Julian is one of our most promising and exciting players, destined for better things in his career (although I hope he stays with us longer term). Given my own view, therefore, I find it difficult to read some BBSers' posts criticising him for fairly minor points, especially when he is playing no worse than the vast majority of his team mates.

I would hope that TF identifies Julian as a "high priority" player who the club should make a conscious effort to keep and offer him a contract accordingly. Unfortunately, I suspect it comes down to the old "ITV Digital financial crisis" argument :rolleyes: , as well as IWM's valid, and thinly veiled, point that our club is not exactly the most stable of environments with a poor management record and particularly fickle fans. In all honesty, I wouldn't blame him for wanting to move, but I sincerely hope he doesn't, and that he fulfills his (IMHO) massive potential in the red n' blue.

IWM, in case it makes any difference, please pass on the positive posts on this thread to Jules, and perhaps mention to him that the adoration Dougie gets from the fans (sometimes blindly) was earned over time (mostly during his first spell at the club) and Julian's hero status will also be established if he perseveres, showing commitment to the cause (just ask Dean Austin ;) ).

brighton_eagle
22-10-2002, 09:18 PM
You all know Alan Smith came in, and totally left Julian out. Some of you may think this was because of AS not rating him but in fact it AS was about as ignorant as some of you. I don't care what anyone says he had a problem with the young black boys at palace. He publicly humiliated Clinton, Hayden and Jules.

What make me laugh, Julian plays well he gets criticised. Dougie plays sh!t he gets praised. I've started to see a pattern in the way you so called supporters think.

Julian has just come back after a big operation, in fact it was touch and go if he'd recover. He has worked extremely hard to make it back into the first team. Fair enough he's come back and not had the best of games but things can only improve as he gets fitter. He does extra training, trains on days off. What else could you ask for? He's committed a lot more than some players.

So he hasn't signed a new contract. So would you? From day one the clubs been inconsistent. What is it 4 managers in two and half seasons, or 5 if you include Kember. Even if SJ offered him a great money contract, it doesn't come down to money at the end of the day. It's about his future.

So as it stands, I personally hope he does well in the future. A player that will be able to do well, and stick two fingers up to all of those that doubted him.

Firstly, I object to the implication that my opinion of Julian is anything to do with the colour of his skin, which I'm pretty sure is what you are suggesting in your second paragraph. It's a pretty poor position you have when you need to stoop to these kind of accusations.

Secondly, you say it's perfectly reasonable for him to want to move on. I agree, but in that case I really don't see why we as fans would owe him anything. He gets paid for what he does after all. Yes, he may have worked hard to get back into the first team, and that's to his credit, but frankly I wouldn't expect anything less, and he's hardly likely to get picked up by a Premiership side if he can't break into our first team is he?

Lastly, I agree and wish him the best of luck for the future. I would prefer us to hold on to him so we can see first hand if he fulfils his potential, but in the annals of CPFC I'm afraid he won't really figure that highly if he leaves at the end of the season. They come and go....thats the way football is, and Julian certainly hasn't achieved half of what Clinton did (yet).

fieldy
22-10-2002, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!

I don't care what anyone says he had a problem with the young black boys at palace. He publicly humiliated Clinton, Hayden and Jules.



I was reading with some interest your post until I read this, why oh why is there the need to trot out this race card rubbish. Why must it be racism on Smith's part? heaven forbid these 3 young men were given a kick up the backside because at the time they were showing a bad attitude or commitment or disruptive influence. No they should have been left to carry on to do just as they pleased To suggest Smith had a problem with black players is laughable, just look at the amount that have played for him. Good to see the old chip on the shoulder is still alive and well with some, it's always someone else's fault when you don't always get your own way. Remind me never to take any notice of you in the future "It wasn't me" I have no wish to read any of your Pc drivel

Who Cares?
22-10-2002, 10:33 PM
It is unfortunate that IWM has brought the race issue into this forum. I have always thought that her connection, whatever it might be, with some of the players has meant her contribution to threads has been very useful and added to the threads.
I am sure that the assessment of JG by those that have been critical is totally objective. Certainly it is consistent.
Excluding Routledge, who whilst becoming a crucial member of the team is too young to have that responsibility, my view is that Gray is one of 3 very talented players who should be the key members of the team, but all of whom have one thing in common; they are very inconsistent. The other 2 I refer to are Mullins & Freedman. I think it is clear that this assessment is not racially based (although extremists in this area could I suppose say that F is a Scot!). 2 could be said to have potential, although I would agree with an earlier poster who suggested that at 22 this potential should by now be being translated into something more tangible, especially in the 1st division.
I think this is a problem for the club as if these 3 cannot be relied on to perform we are never going to be able to produce results with the consistency needed to gain promotion.
Sadly, unless this trait is changed quickly and in the current climate, it might be in the club's best interests to get what they can for Gray and Mullins and find replacements who can deliver a more reliable, if prosaic level of performance.

wedgetail
23-10-2002, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by arussell
I don't know of any other "giant" strikers that would be tall enough to reach the balls.
sorted! off to Villa then for Julian.

Is this the young man? (http://www.cpfc.co.uk/stats/view/player_profiles/0,,10323~8394,00.html)

.. because he seems to be 23 to me, surely a bit old for promising.

Walrus
23-10-2002, 03:00 AM
If Julian wants to stay at Palace he can sign a new contract. I don't see the recent blurb attributed to him or his agents as a definite statement to quit Selhurst, perhaps it's more of a bargaining tactic this early in the season.

Still, if we do sell him for a decent fee then so be it. He does a job for us at the moment and I'd rather him stay with Palace but if he goes then we will not have lost an integral part of the team.

Now JG, you have the rest of the season to show us that you CAN be indispensible and worth a new improved deal. Allow me to be first into the humble pie portions if you do so :p

arussell
23-10-2002, 03:47 AM
Originally posted by wedgetail
sorted! off to Villa then for Julian.


Whoops !

Forgot about him :D

Men At Work
23-10-2002, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
Blimey you don't want much do you? I don't think I see Henry, Shearer or Owen using their left feet much either...

These are proven international players. Jules isn't. Clinton was generally shy of using his left foot when he started but began to use it more and became a far better player for it. I don't understand why a player will not practice using their weaker foot until they become proficient with it. Tommy Black seems to manage to use both feet (and not only in tackles these days :) ).

All of what you've written is a little bit different to what you said in the post before though isn't it. Perhaps you just caught up in the emotion of the anti-Gray sentiment and forgot all reason temporarily.

I've re-read my posts and I can't see what you're getting at :confused:

Daddy Long
23-10-2002, 01:31 PM
I think IWM is perfectly entitled to mention racism in this post. I have often thought that there is an undercurrent of racism at Palace especially amongst the elder fans. I could find no other explanation for the grief that Clinton used to get, or that Mullins and Gray still do despite being no worse, and often better, than other players. Indeed I have heard some pretty close to the mark comments sitting where I do in the Holmesdale.

Brighton_Eagle, I'm sure that IWM wasn't suggesting in any way that your views in particular were tinted with racism, more that there seems to be an element of it at Palace.

Daddy Long
23-10-2002, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Men At Work
These are proven international players. Jules isn't.

Not quite sure I see your point here. Surely then that is even more reason to let up on Julian for lacking a quality right foot. If these international players can't do it why should we expect Julian to be able to do it. Indeed, I saw Henry twice using his right foot last night where his left would have served him better.


I've re-read my posts and I can't see what you're getting at :confused:

"Thanks for the paltry number of goals in almost three seasons, Jules - and especially that missed penalty against Forest. Hope the door doesn't hit you on the @rsť on your way out. Perhaps the rest of the lads will buy you a right foot as a leaving gift."

A bit harsh perhaps?

Mal Come Ally Son
23-10-2002, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Benzhiyi
What game was this hack watching? I definitely saw Gray score. I also saw him remain almost completely anonymous for much of the game.

MoM was Popovic by a mile!

What game was he watching? Probably Milwall - SLP's darlings.

And the line that Gray was MoM was probably fed to him by Gray's agent.

This thread has two effects on me. First I get pissed of reading that we squandered £500,000 on him. Second, it raises my hopes that we'll soon see the back of this over-rated, under-achieving ballet dancer.

Most certainly Gray could become a very good player. But I think all he'll ever do is promise without delivering.

Daddy Long
23-10-2002, 02:07 PM
what do you actually see when you go to watch football? Is your nose stuck in the programme for the whole game or does someone really tall sit infront of you?

Overrated - not by Bobby Robson, Arsene Wenger, Steve Bruce, Alan Curbishley.

Under-achieving - what would you expect a 22/23 year old to have achieved at this stage of his career....at Palace.

perhaps you would be happy to watch a team of talentless triers like Aki and Austin charging around the pitch like headless chickens. Some of us like to see a bit of skill on a Saturday

Elephant with mouse gyp
23-10-2002, 02:17 PM
On a slightly different angle, I think that Gray's performances are often affected, for good or ill, by the defender behind him.

He had his best spell with us when Mullins was playing there, as he got the ball to feet a lot more than with Granville.

Palace have had a problem with full backs for years now. Get that sorted out and I reckon our wide men, Gray, Black and even Rubens, would do a lot better. Given that we can't go out and buy a full back now, that should lead to a return to three at the back in my view, not that that is at all likely with Trev.

cpfcben
23-10-2002, 02:30 PM
you have to question julian grays commitment. he has achieved **** all at palace and has yet to really prove anything. i would be really sad to see him go as he is a player of some promise, however if you can't get him to sign a new contract what chance do palace have

Mal Come Ally Son
23-10-2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
what do you actually see when you go to watch football? Is your nose stuck in the programme for the whole game or does someone really tall sit infront of you?

Overrated - not by Bobby Robson, Arsene Wenger, Steve Bruce, Alan Curbishley.

Under-achieving - what would you expect a 22/23 year old to have achieved at this stage of his career....at Palace.

perhaps you would be happy to watch a team of talentless triers like Aki and Austin charging around the pitch like headless chickens. Some of us like to see a bit of skill on a Saturday

So, what you're implying is that the only people who don't rate Gray are those who don't watch the match. I have to hand it to you, that's an original explanation. Complete bollocks - but original.

I too like to see skill on Saturday, but I'm not prepared to settle for "a bit" I see 'a bit' of skill from Gray most times he plays. Usually about 10 minutes worth. I don't expect 90 minutes, nor do I expect the 90 minutes headless chicken routine that you refer to. I'd settle for a player who can show his skill in flashes throughout the whole game.

Wenger rates him? Not the same Wenger who sold him? Not the same Wenger who allegedly rated Rubins? Robson rates him? Really? Sure - he rates him enough to say polite things about him, and many other players. But does he rate him enough to sign him and play him? Apparently not. Perhaps you are a little too ready to believe everything you read in the sports pages.

Incidentally, I guess that Trevor Francis rates him as well but I don't see his name on your list.

I'll make a deal with you. Probably by the end of the season one of us will be proved right and the other proved wrong. The loser eats a huge dollop of humble pie. You up for it?

Daddy Long
23-10-2002, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
So, what you're implying is that the only people who don't rate Gray are those who don't watch the match. I have to hand it to you, that's an original explanation. Complete bollocks - but original.

I too like to see skill on Saturday, but I'm not prepared to settle for "a bit"

Wenger rates him? Not the same Wenger who sold him? Not the same Wenger who allegedly rated Rubins? Robson rates him? Really? Sure - he rates him enough to say polite things about him, and many other players. But does he rate him enough to sign him and play him? Apparently not. Perhaps you are a little too ready to believe everything you read in the sports pages.

Incidentally, I guess that Trevor Francis rates him as well but I don't see his name on your list.

I'll make a deal with you. Probably by the end of the season one of us will be proved right and the other proved wrong. The loser eats a huge dollop of humble pie. You up for it?

We must look for different things in a footballer. I can't comprehend how anyone could fail to see the skill and potential that Julian possesses and be willing to give it a chance to develope.

Wenger does indeed rate him. Wenger asked Julian to stay at Arsenal but Julian took the advise of his agents that a move to Palace with Coppell as manager would be a good move for him. We all know what happened next. You'll have to take my word on that but it is the honest truth. Wenger didn't rate Rubins, if he did he would have signed him. All he said was that he was one of the fastest players he'd ever seen.

No explanation about Bruce rating him and indeed making him a definite name in the starting 11?

I have no idea if Francis rates him or not. All I know is that he rates him more highly than he rates Rubins.

How are you going to judge this? If he moves to a Premiership club I am right and if he doesn't then I am wrong? He won't be at Palace at the end of the season. I suspect he would already be gone if the Premiership transfer window were open. Realistically we would need to come back to this thread in a few years to see how Gray has progressed. But if you are that desperate for immediate humiliation I can stretch myself to accomodating you at the end of this season. If he stays at Palace - marvellous - he will be a top quality player for us.

arussell
23-10-2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
We must look for different things in a footballer. I can't comprehend how anyone could fail to see the skill and potential that Julian possesses and be willing to give it a chance to develope.


Indeed DL, football is a game of opinions :)

Personally (and I know I'm not alone in this from people I speak to), I just do not understand why some sections of our fans rate Julian so highly, he consistantly underperforms, promises much, and yet doesn't deliver. In fact - I would say that most of these are probably the same people that loved Nicky Rizzo so much ?

His crossing is poor and has never improved in all the time he has been with us. Having said that, I do believe that he has the potential to be a much better play (and only he can unlock that). Additonally as I tried to mention before (but it seems the point was lost), his positional play is very poor when it comes to marking the areas of the pitch defensively where he should be, and he tends to get sucked away from where he should be by not paying attention.

Ironically - the best game he's had for us was Barnsley away, where most of those who rate him highly, probably didn't have the chance to watch him.

I'd love him to stay and improve, and I do like flair players (such as Wayne Routledge, who has the potential to go all the way), but my idea of flair is not crossing the bar 10 foot over the bar out of play, or running off the pitch with the ball when having no idea what to do next with it - and I think he wants to leave anyway from the noises he's made.

He MAY do better at another club - but it's really 50/50.

Beanie
23-10-2002, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long

Can't say I've ever witnessed players looking up for Gray and not seeing him. It certainly isn't as regular an occurrence as you would like it to be.

The stuff about Arsenal certainly isn't irrelevant. Have you forgotten where Gray learnt his trade? Gray learnt from these superior players. Are you privy to training or teamtalks where Gray is told that he certainly does not have a free role? It may well suit your personal opinion of Gray to make stuff like this up but you certainly can't prove it with any truth.

Perhaps I should say certainly again.

On Satutrday I saw at least three players look left and see open spaces - one of them was Derry just before he got caught in possession (not saying the goal was Grays fault - Derry could still have deposited in row 10 instead of being over clever). They certainly expected somebody to be out there, and as the left midfielder it seems logical to assume it was Gray they were looking for. It is also not uncommon to see people wanting to play a ball behind the full back, only to discover Gray is square or even behind the play (sometimes I admit because he has been covering back). You seem to feel that I am in the "sell"camp. I'm not I, would probably abstain if there was a vote. I think that when he gets the ball he can be quite effective, it's just how rarely he seems to get the ball, which is back to the out of position part. I'm not for giving him a particular rise either. In my view Gray has not shown any significant improvement over the last 18 months, so how can he justify a significant rise? If he MIGHT improve, perhaps he should sign a one year deal - with a view to serious review if in the next year improved. Problem from Palaces point of view is that he'd be over 24 and really on a free.

As for the free role - OF cours eI don't know, but if he's supposed to have one, he does that worse than the left wing bit, but I doubt he has, his team mates seem to expect someone to be wide left, and nobody else seems allocated to the role. So, whilst I am indeed not privy to the team talks I would say that the team as a whole seem to act as if he doesn't have such a role.

What he learnt to do at Arsenal is irrelevant - he doesn't play for them now. If every player stuck to what he was asked to do as his last club, or the club where he "learnt his trade" we'd have total chaos. If his attititude is that he learnt from better players (although I doubt that the Arsenal first team trained much with the academy / reserves) and he isn't going to change then my view would change and we should sell. Of course he uses the skills he learnt at Arsenal, but the tactics/ formations are those of Palace now, not Arsenal then. If he can't or won't adapt then the only answer is to move.

Del Gland
23-10-2002, 04:06 PM
I reckon that most of the Palace players are under-achieving at the moment. I'm not going to point the obvious finger at Francis here because they will still be here if he goes. All I know is that something is wrong with them mentally but can't decide if it's confusion over tactics and their role or if it's simply lack of self-motivation.

Gray is one of this crowd and the sooner he wakes up and realises that the only person that will ultimately suffer is himself, the better. I'd rather see him realise his potential at Palace though!!

Benzhiyi
23-10-2002, 04:21 PM
For me, Julian Gray is a footballer possessed with wonderful skill when he has the ball at his feet. His tracking back has improved greatly, and he played really well at wingback under Bruce.

The problem is that he simply has no end product. Too often he'll beat two players and then completely undo all his hard work. His crossing is woeful, probably on a par with Deano - and we all know the stick Austin gets whenever he plays. His finishing - bar a few occasions over the last couple of years, like Saturday - is usually just as bad. And how many times do we see him get the ball in space and then just pass it back to the left back? It's crazy. Give Julian the ball in a tight corner and he'll show some brilliant skill and get himself out of it. Give him the ball him in space and he looks lost!

Definitely lots of potential, but sooner or later someone has to teach him to cross or he'll never make it back into the Premiership.

Bunsen Honeydew
23-10-2002, 04:39 PM
I agree with Benzhiyi. Saved all that typing!:)

Mal Come Ally Son
23-10-2002, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
We must look for different things in a footballer. I can't comprehend how anyone could fail to see the skill and potential that Julian possesses and be willing to give it a chance to develope.


How are you going to judge this? If he moves to a Premiership club I am right and if he doesn't then I am wrong? He won't be at Palace at the end of the season. I suspect he would already be gone if the Premiership transfer window were open. Realistically we would need to come back to this thread in a few years to see how Gray has progressed. But if you are that desperate for immediate humiliation I can stretch myself to accomodating you at the end of this season. If he stays at Palace - marvellous - he will be a top quality player for us.

Daddy - indeed it is a game of opinions. If Gray is performing well at aanother side then I'll eat my pie with reluctance. If he's performing well at Palace I'll eat it with great delight.

Now - as for the humilation bit. It's very kind of you to offer but that really is not my thing, and if it were I'd go to a phone box on Soho. :p

917L
23-10-2002, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
You all know Alan Smith came in, and totally left Julian out. Some of you may think this was because of AS not rating him but in fact it AS was about as ignorant as some of you. I don't care what anyone says he had a problem with the young black boys at palace. He publicly humiliated Clinton, Hayden and Jules.

I know you'd hate to admit it, but Julian is going to do well in the premiership if Clinton can Julian can.


I thought Clinton 'publicly' humiliated himself away at Fotrest under Smith, throwing a tantrum when substituted(by Dougie who then scored)

I dont think JG is a patch an Clinton and he hasnt exactly lit up the Premiership yet has he?

Maz
23-10-2002, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Benzhiyi
For me, Julian Gray is a footballer possessed with wonderful skill when he has the ball at his feet. His tracking back has improved greatly, and he played really well at wingback under Bruce.

The problem is that he simply has no end product.

Great analysis of Gray. And incidentally not a bad analysis of Palace as a whole at the moment.

All that promise. And no delivery.

Baloo
23-10-2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Benzhiyi
The problem is that he simply has no end product.

Sorry, who scored our first goal on Saturday and who went very close a few minutes later?

Come on, he probably agreed with the criticism before the game, but I suspect he would be a bit peeved that the same criticism is levelled at him in the very week after he'd scored.

Dr.Kildare
23-10-2002, 08:07 PM
I met Ashley Cole at a 7's tournament last year (he was the celebrity guest) and asked him who he thought was the best player that Palace had on their books - he said it was Julian Gray and then started to rave on about how he was the most skillful left winger he'd ever seen.....

maybe if Julian played in a more skillful team his true ability would come to the fore.....just a thought

917L
23-10-2002, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by Dr.Kildare
I met Ashley Cole at a 7's tournament last year (he was the celebrity guest) and asked him who he thought was the best player that Palace had on their books - he said it was Julian Gray and then started to rave on about how he was the most skillful left winger he'd ever seen.....



Wouldnt be because they were mates in the same Arsenal reserve team would it?

Dr.Kildare
23-10-2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by 917L
Wouldnt be because they were mates in the same Arsenal reserve team would it?

Maybe but why rave about it to some ordinary bloke like me....

brighton_eagle
23-10-2002, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by Dr.Kildare
he said it was Julian Gray and then started to rave on about how he was the most skillful left winger he'd ever seen.....


What, better than Henry and Pires??!!??

Very nice of Ashley, but perhaps they were just mates.

Dr.Kildare
23-10-2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle
What, better than Henry and Pires??!!??

Very nice of Ashley, but perhaps they were just mates.

just repeating what he said, perhaps if Julian had players of with his ability around him he would shine more often...

anyway, Ashley Cole came across as a really nice bloke

It wasn't me!
23-10-2002, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Dr.Kildare
I met Ashley Cole at a 7's tournament last year (he was the celebrity guest) and asked him who he thought was the best player that Palace had on their books - he said it was Julian Gray and then started to rave on about how he was the most skillful left winger he'd ever seen.....

maybe if Julian played in a more skillful team his true ability would come to the fore.....just a thought

This is pretty much what most footballers say about him, and Ashley wouldn't just say that. He does have a tendency to say what he thinks. Also since leaving Arsenal they haven't exactly remained the best of friends.

brighton_eagle
23-10-2002, 08:33 PM
What? Most footballers think Julian Gray is the best left winger they have ever seen?

I really don't know what to say in response to this.

StevieCsredandbluearmy
23-10-2002, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Essexeagle
Errr - if its a choice between selling him to whoever now and making a decent-ish sum, or letting him go in the summer for a pittance then I know which one I would choose.

Julian could always sign a new contract if he didn't want to go anywhere.

This has convinced me that SJ may say one thing whilst doing another. He tells TF that he is ambitious and Palace must reach the play-offs this season and in the next breath he is linked with selling our best players to reduce the club's debt. It is about time you aere up front with the fans SJ. If you are not interested in this club any more, please let us know.

Benzhiyi
23-10-2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Baloo
Sorry, who scored our first goal on Saturday and who went very close a few minutes later?

Come on, he probably agreed with the criticism before the game, but I suspect he would be a bit peeved that the same criticism is levelled at him in the very week after he'd scored.

Baloo, as I said in my original post:

"His finishing - bar a few occasions over the last couple of years, like Saturday - is usually just as bad."

He has scored about five goals in two and a bit years. Nowhere near good enough for an attacking midfielder who some say is good enough to play Premiership footballer.

Benzhiyi
23-10-2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle
What? Most footballers think Julian Gray is the best left winger they have ever seen?

I really don't know what to say in response to this.

How about:

"Quick someone tell Alex Ferguson and we'll get Giggsy in exchange!"

:clown: :clown: :clown:

brighton_eagle
23-10-2002, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Benzhiyi
How about:

"Quick someone tell Alex Ferguson and we'll get Giggsy in exchange!"

:clown: :clown: :clown:

:D :p

I'm sure he'd go for it.

It wasn't me!
24-10-2002, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle
What? Most footballers think Julian Gray is the best left winger they have ever seen?

I really don't know what to say in response to this.

I didn't actually mean the bit about his the best left winger. I mean they rate him highly, and if you ask them they go off on one about how good he is etc.

wedgetail
24-10-2002, 01:51 PM
IWM, We can all see the talent, we are argueing that he is not turning this talent into product on the pitch, and maybe he can't.

Men At Work
24-10-2002, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
I mean they rate him highly, and if you ask them they go off on one about how good he is etc.

No doubt Daddy Long will jump on me again but I'm starting to get the impression that Jules has a great future behind him. Routledge is forgiven his mistakes because he is still an inexperienced youngster. Jules was also forgiven his mistakes for the same reason but is now no longer inexperienced or a youngster. It is time he started to deliver on all that promise that he has threatened for so long.

It wasn't me!
24-10-2002, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by wedgetail
IWM, We can all see the talent, we are argueing that he is not turning this talent into product on the pitch, and maybe he can't.

Ok that's fair enough. But he is able to produce it on the pitch. He did it at Arsenal - but you can only take my word for that.

Basically I can go on and on but there's not much point I've told everyone my view and everyone has expressed their opinion. Time will tell.

But in the mean time while he is a palace player, why don't some fans actually try getting behind him - and the team!!!

It wasn't me!
24-10-2002, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Men At Work
No doubt Daddy Long will jump on me again but I'm starting to get the impression that Jules has a great future behind him. Routledge is forgiven his mistakes because he is still an inexperienced youngster. Jules was also forgiven his mistakes for the same reason but is now no longer inexperienced or a youngster. It is time he started to deliver on all that promise that he has threatened for so long.

ok I can even see your point.

The fact still remains he hasn't had a good run in the squad since he's been at palace.

First season - basically non existent
Second season - Good under SB, then TF rarely started him and was often sub.
Third season - come back from serious surgery - still not fit.

Basically the fans haven't been given the chance to see what he's got. They've seen little bits and hopefully for everyone's sake we'll get to see what he really is about.

El Aguila
24-10-2002, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by StevieCsredandbluearmy
This has convinced me that SJ may say one thing whilst doing another.
What? Essexeagle's conjecture convinced you that Simon Jordan is a liar?

El Aguila
24-10-2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
Basically the fans haven't been given the chance to see what he's got. They've seen little bits and hopefully for everyone's sake we'll get to see what he really is about.
Amen to that and your previous post about getting behind him, and the team. Julian is certainly one of the most exciting players to watch at Palace.

pedro
24-10-2002, 03:00 PM
My views on Gray are well known but I did applaud his goal on Saturday and said to my mate 'credit were credit is due.' but my point is this is one of the rare occasions in 3 years that I have clapped him and that sums the player up. He consistantly under achieves and things will not get any better, no matter how long we wait, if he was to improve it would have happened by now. I was watching Newcastle v Juventus when the commentator said that Del Piero could be out of a game for 80 minutes but it would be the 10 minutes of magic that would win the game for Juventus. It is safe to say that Gray is out of most of our games for 80 minutes and then produces 10 minutes of above average play, but we are not Juventus and Gray is definitely not Del Piero. The players in the Palace team are not good enough to cover for Gray during the long periods he goes missing so he is a luxury we cannot afford. Sell him, get some much needed money in, and then move on.

917L
24-10-2002, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
Ok that's fair enough. But he is able to produce it on the pitch. He did it at Arsenal

Reserves!

It wasn't me!
24-10-2002, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by 917L
Reserves!

Not being funny - Arsenal reserves could most probably give palace first team a run for their money.

Also he did train with world class players!

Anyway lets move on and look forward. Hopefully he'll be fit for Saturday.

Palace Don
24-10-2002, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by arussell
Indeed DL, football is a game of opinions :)


I'd love him to stay and improve, and I do like flair players (such as Wayne Routledge, who has the potential to go all the way), but my idea of flair is not crossing the bar 10 foot over the bar out of play, or running off the pitch with the ball when having no idea what to do next with it - and I think he wants to leave anyway from the noises he's made.



I think that Wayne will realise his potential alot quicker than Julian, whether it be at Palace or elsewhere.

It wasn't me!
24-10-2002, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by Palace Don
I think that Wayne will realise his potential alot quicker than Julian, whether it be at Palace or elsewhere.

I think Wayne has realised his potential already!!! This is not surprising especially when BIG clubs put in million pound offers. :p

El Aguila
24-10-2002, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
I think Wayne has realised his potential already!!! This is not surprising especially when BIG clubs put in million pound offers. :p
And I think Palace Don was using a different meaning of the word "realise" to you, IWM. ;)

glaziers fan
24-10-2002, 03:52 PM
his crossing was good against Wimbledon, his finishing was good against Wimbledon, and he was playing deeper than usual because he had to help Granville cope with MacAnuff. There is nothing more that Julian could have done in that game. Let's see how he copes against Brighton. I do agree though that Julian needs to learn to run into the space and get himself played-in behind their full back. It's almost as though he has so much fun beating players that he would rather do that than do the simple stuff! Oh, and btw, Tommy Black said he thinks Julian will play for the full England team! There is no doubting Julian's technical skill. It is easily the best at the whole club. His control and touch is incredible. As for his right foot, I didn't think it looked to bad against Wimbledon. Was the goal scored with his left? I can't remember! I know the 20 yard strike that forced an excellent save from their keeper minutes later was with his right-foot.:D

freekickuk
24-10-2002, 04:04 PM
http://www.c-palace.org/squad/gifs/j_gray_99p.jpg
looking good again.
could do with him for a few more years yet,but you cannot make someone sign a new deal if he does not want to.
will heve to take the needed cash in january, than let him go for nelt in the summer.

Jordan's Jacket
24-10-2002, 04:21 PM
I get the impression that Julian is a little naive, perhaps through immaturity. He is being led by his agent and probably believes what he is told. I don't believe that he is mercenary, but has been convinced that he is better than he is. He has got talent which does need nurturing, but he is some way short of being the finished article. If he's got any sense he will knuckle down and ignore some of the advice which he is being given.

I also get the impression that he likes to be appreciated and his confidence is knocked in the face of criticism, again a sign of his immaturity. All being said, however, if a reasonable offer came in, in excess of £1m, we would be silly to reject it. Money is hard to come by and I don't want to see him walk in January for nothing.

arussell
24-10-2002, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Palace Don
I think that Wayne will realise his potential alot quicker than Julian, whether it be at Palace or elsewhere.


And on that note, I totally agree.

Julian has the perfect opportunity to prove how "Palace" he wants to be, this Saturday ;)

917L
24-10-2002, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
his crossing was good against Wimbledon


No it wasnt!

Beanie
24-10-2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
Basically the fans haven't been given the chance to see what he's got. They've seen little bits and hopefully for everyone's sake we'll get to see what he really is about.

I'm not sure this is true. The reason this is under discussion is that if Gray doesn't get sold sold soon he will be free to move for a pitance in the summer.

What you say about him not having had a run is true enough - and most of it, especially the injury not his fault. The problem would be solved if he signed a new deal - even for one season - and tried to prove his point and earn a rise. It seems at the moment that by wanting he a rise he is saying "give the money I COULD be worth". I'd say - sign the deal for what you have PROVED you are worth, and come back when you have PROVED you are worth more.

That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

It wasn't me!
24-10-2002, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Beanie
I'm not sure this is true. The reason this is under discussion is that if Gray doesn't get sold sold soon he will be free to move for a pitance in the summer.

What you say about him not having had a run is true enough - and most of it, especially the injury not his fault. The problem would be solved if he signed a new deal - even for one season - and tried to prove his point and earn a rise. It seems at the moment that by wanting he a rise he is saying "give the money I COULD be worth". I'd say - sign the deal for what you have PROVED you are worth, and come back when you have PROVED you are worth more.

That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Can I just point out, Gray has never been quoted saying he wanted more money. If he has I'd be interested to see it!!

It's not all about money it's about stability too. The sad thing is everyone has this impression that Julian doesn't like palace and wants to go. But you need to realise there's more to it, we are all on the outside. No one ever knows the true story.

Maybe if the whole squad start working as a team then Palace might be able to get back on track. If not I can see a lot of players losing interest.

The Vicar
24-10-2002, 07:10 PM
Julian's a great prospect with great skill who's getting better and better. We need to hold onto him and encourage him, not criticize him!

BE, take note.

Men At Work
24-10-2002, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Beanie
It seems at the moment that by wanting he a rise he is saying "give the money I COULD be worth". I'd say - sign the deal for what you have PROVED you are worth, and come back when you have PROVED you are worth more.

That's the sticking point for me as well. If it isn't Jules saying this (and I believe IWM when she says it isn't) then it sounds like his agent doing the usual agent sh;t-stirring stuff. Given the current financial state of football it doesn't seem like a good idea. What really annoyed me was when Sicknote Anderton only re-signed for Spurs after they gave him a pay increase. Given the amount of time he'd had out of the team it was galling to think he would demand more money.

I think we all want Gray to do well at Palace and to stay if he finally started delivering on his promise. Things may be a bit awkward in the club at the moment but he (or any of the others) cannot continue to use that as an excuse for ever. The words 'mentally tough' nearly slipped out there...

pedro
25-10-2002, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by The Vicar
Julian's a great prospect with great skill who's getting better and better. We need to hold onto him and encourage him, not criticize him!

BE, take note.

I am sorry, but you use the word 'great' far too easily. Whilst he has ability he is not a GREAT prospect, unlike Wayne Routledge. He may be good with the ball at his feet but he does not have GREAT skill, if he did then the majority of his crosses would not end up in the stands. How on earth you can say he is 'getting better and better' is beyond me, he is as frustrating today as he was when he first pulled on a Palace shirt. Unless he produces in the very near future we do not 'need to hold on to him' as we would be better off cashing in and finding a replacement who will actually deliver the goods rather then keep on flattering to deceive.
It is these type of ridiculous comments that get up my nose, and to be fair I actually feel sorry for Julian Gray. He is no more than an ordinary player in an ordinary team but gets treated like he is something special, which he is not. I can understand the hype regarding Wright, Jansen and Freedman because they earned it, but what has Gray done?
I do not have a problem with Gray but I cannot see what all the fuss is about, I would be just as scathing if all this trumped up rubbish was used regarding Mullins, Butterfield, Powell etc .
If you did a school report on him it would surely read 'ok, but could do better.' but all this over the top garbage even has him believing it, hence the fact he feels he is ready for the bright lights of the Premiership. Do not get me wrong, it is every professionals dream to play at the highest standard, and why not, but when you make that jump you must be ready and thanks to all the hype he thinks he is, boy is he in for a shock.
Sure, we must encourage our players, I agree, but let us stop making out they are something special, when quite clearly they are not, it is both embarrassing for the supporters as well as the player.

brighton_eagle
25-10-2002, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by The Vicar
Julian's a great prospect with great skill who's getting better and better. We need to hold onto him and encourage him, not criticize him!

BE, take note.

Is BE me?

If so, I keep saying I would prefer Julian to stay and that I think he has potential. BUT...he hasn't realised it yet, and in my opinion would be better off concentrating on doing so rather than anything else.

A also have to disagree about certain things that I percieve to be patently un true, such as the claims that his crossing is superb.....etc.

Gooders
25-10-2002, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!


Gray's agent Tony Finnigan confirmed: "Julian's contract is up at the end of the season and he's a very ambitious player who wants to play at the top level. He is enjoying his time at Palace but is looking for an improved offer."


This is the only quote on this thread that means anything. Finnigan has been angling for a move for Julian virtually since the day he arrived.

He has done nothing to justify a new contract, never mind an improved one. If Chortleton want to take a chance on him finally doing anything other than looking disinterested or moody, good luck to them.

There's no way he'll be here at the end of the season - let's just hope someone is fool enough to pay us what we laid out on him.

Bye Julian.

Hang The DJ
26-10-2002, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
Originally posted by It wasn't me!


This is the only quote on this thread that means anything. Finnigan has been angling for a move for Julian virtually since the day he arrived.

He has done nothing to justify a new contract, never mind an improved one. If Chortleton want to take a chance on him finally doing anything other than looking disinterested or moody, good luck to them.

There's no way he'll be here at the end of the season - let's just hope someone is fool enough to pay us what we laid out on him.

Bye Julian.

Thank you Gooders for some reasoned comments. Routledge has done more in 10 games than Gray has in two and a bit seasons. If we get any money for him it will be a real bonus.

Rather than all this great potential crap I reckon he'll be playing conference football within 3 years.

brighton_eagle
26-10-2002, 08:22 PM
Credit where credit is due. I though Julian had an excellent game today, caused them all sorts of problems down the left and scored a very well taken goal. Well done Julian. :p :p :D

Beanie
27-10-2002, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle
Credit where credit is due. I though Julian had an excellent game today, caused them all sorts of problems down the left and scored a very well taken goal. Well done Julian. :p :p :D

Quite agree - probably for the first time we've seen the good side of Julian Gray in successive games. It begins to look like he could earn the new deal that he is looking for. It shows he can do it - keep it up :p

Baloo
27-10-2002, 02:24 PM
Two goals in two games - well done Jules!

Was interested to see TF switch Julian to left back when Rubens came on. And even more interested to see Julian put in a few good challenges - he did no worse in that position as Granville had done before him, and still made the occasional burst into the box.

Mark my words: he's a Palace star in the making. :p

What?
27-10-2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Baloo


Mark my words: he's a Palace star in the making. :p

Or a Charlton star in the making!

John.K
27-10-2002, 03:13 PM
I for one really hope he does not go.:sob:

glaziers fan
27-10-2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Baloo
Two goals in two games - well done Jules!

Was interested to see TF switch Julian to left back when Rubens came on. And even more interested to see Julian put in a few good challenges - he did no worse in that position as Granville had done before him, and still made the occasional burst into the box.

Mark my words: he's a Palace star in the making. :p

Well said. I'd rather he played left-back rather than Granville because he is a more solid defender. It's as simple as that!

917L
28-10-2002, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
Well said. I'd rather he played left-back rather than Granville because he is a more solid defender. It's as simple as that!

Agree with this completley although not a 'defender' he is far better than Granville in that position(cant think of many who wouldnt be avtually). Another plus if Rubins occupied the wing role is that he is a better crosser of the ball than JG(still a failing in his game, even on Saturday, despite the excellent goal)

Baloo
28-10-2002, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by What?
Or a Charlton star in the making!

I have a growing sense of dread that you may be right. Why did Francis bring Rubins on, when he has ignored him most of the season? Perhaps to give him match practice before he is forced to become a regular once Jules goes in January?

God, I hope I am suffering "James Mitchell Syndrome" and no more.

Please stick it out with us, Jules. :(

Psychokiller
28-10-2002, 10:03 AM
I think the reason Francis bought Rubins on was because the Seaweed defence obviously couldn't deal with pace!

brighton_eagle
28-10-2002, 10:08 AM
And also because as we were 5-0 up TF rightly decided to give some (one) of the fringe players a chance.

It wasn't me!
28-10-2002, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Baloo
I have a growing sense of dread that you may be right. Why did Francis bring Rubins on, when he has ignored him most of the season? Perhaps to give him match practice before he is forced to become a regular once Jules goes in January?

God, I hope I am suffering "James Mitchell Syndrome" and no more.

Please stick it out with us, Jules. :(

It's very unlikely he'll be going in January!!!

Gooders
28-10-2002, 10:14 AM
Julian scored a cracking goal but lets wait until he does that sort of thing consistently before we worry too much about whether he's going or not.

And Chortelton are coming down - with or without Gray. :)

ozeagle
28-10-2002, 10:16 AM
in the world we are selling Gray, forget it.
still, good to see Andrejs back !

Daddy Long
28-10-2002, 10:20 AM
It won't be only Charlton that are interested if he carries on playing like that.

I still can't believe that people are slagging off his crossing. His very first cross of the game was whipped in to the danger area and the majority of the rest were equally well executed. He had a couple of overhit efforts but in general his crossing was spot on today.

Just waiting for someone to slag off his positioning next....

brighton_eagle
28-10-2002, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
It won't be only Charlton that are interested if he carries on playing like that.

I still can't believe that people are slagging off his crossing. His very first cross of the game was whipped in to the danger area and the majority of the rest were equally well executed. He had a couple of overhit efforts but in general his crossing was spot on today.

Just waiting for someone to slag off his positioning next....

:D

It wasn't me!
28-10-2002, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
Julian scored a cracking goal but lets wait until he does that sort of thing consistently before we worry too much about whether he's going or not.

And Chortelton are coming down - with or without Gray. :)


Charlton are not top of the list - yes they migth want him but they are not the only ones.

Psychokiller
28-10-2002, 10:37 AM
Aren't Newcastle still interested?

Gooders
28-10-2002, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
It's very unlikely he'll be going in January!!!

I know you are a girlie, Lady Supporter, but you change your tune too often, even by girlie standards! ;)

I assume that you are now hinting that Julian may be signing a new contract soon? :)

GuildfordEagle
28-10-2002, 10:46 AM
I think the next player to leave could be Wayne Routledge. Villa or Boro my prediction in January for peanuts bcos we will be goin bankrupt then :grrr:

Daddy Long
28-10-2002, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
Originally posted by It wasn't me!


I know you are a girlie, Lady Supporter, but you change your tune too often, even by girlie standards! ;)

I assume that you are now hinting that Julian may be signing a new contract soon? :)

Perhaps she means he'll be leaving for a pittance at the end of the season??

Baloo
28-10-2002, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
It's very unlikely he'll be going in January!!!

:) :) :) :) :) :)

Thanks, IWM.

Baloo
28-10-2002, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
Perhaps she means he'll be leaving for a pittance at the end of the season??

D'oh! :sob: :sob: :sob: :sob:

It wasn't me!
28-10-2002, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Baloo
D'oh! :sob: :sob: :sob: :sob:

sorry! :(

It wasn't me!
28-10-2002, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by GuildfordEagle
I think the next player to leave could be Wayne Routledge. Villa or Boro my prediction in January for peanuts bcos we will be goin bankrupt then :grrr:

This is highly unlikely - even so if he did go - there are better clubs that want him ;)

brighton_eagle
28-10-2002, 11:01 AM
If he's going to go, we should at least sell him in January and try and get something for him. I'd rather he signed a new contract though.

brighton_eagle
28-10-2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
This is highly unlikely - even so if he did go - there are better clubs that want him ;)

1 Liverpool 11 8 3 0 13 27
2 Arsenal 11 7 2 2 13 23
3 Chelsea 11 5 4 2 8 19
4 Man Utd 11 5 4 2 6 19
5 Tottenham Hotspur 11 6 1 4 1 19
6 Middlesbrough 11 5 3 3 7 18


Hmm....:)

Gooders
28-10-2002, 11:04 AM
To be honest, young Wayne is the only player that I would be bothered about leaving and clearly his departure is the most likely.

However, clubs like us have to sell to get through the next few years and he's our most saleable asset.

A pittance? No way. Even in the current economic climate, he won't go for less than £2 million. My guess is that Moan United will be after him.

brighton_eagle
28-10-2002, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
My guess is that Moan United will be after him.

Someone to play wide right when they move Beckham in field.

It wasn't me!
28-10-2002, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
To be honest, young Wayne is the only player that I would be bothered about leaving and clearly his departure is the most likely.

However, clubs like us have to sell to get through the next few years and he's our most saleable asset.

A pittance? No way. Even in the current economic climate, he won't go for less than £2 million. My guess is that Moan United will be after him.

There has been offers put in for him but not at that price. Try half of that!!

sydnsteve
28-10-2002, 11:16 AM
I think Gray will go in the summer for no fee, and he was excellent on Sat, and is still coming back from an injury.
What people have to realise that this idea that all players' wages must go down is a very 2 edged sword for clubs like ours. If this position is maintained regardless of the player, those good enough for the Prem, like Gray, will go while those not good enough will remain.
It doesn't need a genius to spell out the result.

sydnsteve
28-10-2002, 11:16 AM
I think Gray will go in the summer for no fee, and he was excellent on Sat, and is still coming back from an injury.
What people have to realise that this idea that all players' wages must go down is a very 2 edged sword for clubs like ours. If this position is maintained regardless of the player, those good enough for the Prem, like Gray, will go while those not good enough will remain.
It doesn't need a genius to spell out the result.

sydnsteve
28-10-2002, 11:18 AM
Clearly, 2 clicks are not better than 1!

Gooders
28-10-2002, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by It wasn't me!
There has been offers put in for him but not at that price. Try half of that!!

Yeah, but that's an offer, not a deal.

He won't go for less than £2 million.

Baloo
28-10-2002, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Gooders

He won't go for less than £2 million.

Just like Clinton wouldn't go for less than £5 million. This is Palace, run by the financial genius that is Simon Jordan. I wouldn't be surprised if Wayne joins the long list of massively underpriced departees from Selhurst.

Absolutely gutted about Julian. Hope he makes the most of this season, and doesn't just count down the days before his impending departure for the bigger stage.

Men At Work
28-10-2002, 01:11 PM
Why is our Latvian winger in the first team squad? Why not ask reserve team manager Steve "Rubins is a waste of space" Kember.

How old is Jules? I thought players under a certain age can't go on a Bosman. Or am I just confused?

Cleon
28-10-2002, 03:08 PM
A few interesting points here to come back on.

Jules is an excellent first division winger. I believe that a midfield consisting of Jules, Wayne, Mullins and Derry is as good a midfield as you will find in this division. I don't question his talent, nor do I question his attitude based on thew occasional report in the irresponsible press.

As for his value, or otherwise, we need to take a long view with regards the future of Crystal Palace FC. If we were offered £2m for him, and that money secured our future, then we may have sell, unless we are prepared to gamble that £2m against getting into the Premiership. I was always taught never to gamble what you cannot afford to lose. I'm not sure we can afford to lose £2m at the moment. I would be much more upset if we were to lose Routledge however, but that is because he is the one player at Palace I think will play for England in the future.

As for his wages, I'd happily lose Tommy Black, and pay half of his wages to Gray if it enabled us to keep him.

Finally, IWM's comments re: race. I do not think Smith was conciously racist, but I think he was subconciously so. He wanted players to have the attitude of Gareth Southgate ("proud to have him as a son... he'd make a great estate agent" etc.). I suspect he felt that he couldn't connect with Smith, Mullins and Morrison. They've all since proved him wrong to criticise their attitude (Morrison's tantrum was after those comments).

Beanie
28-10-2002, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Gooders

He won't go for less than £2 million. [/B]

whoops, sorry misread the post and the replay made no sense and it won't let me delete the whole thing, don't know why

Beanie
28-10-2002, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Originally posted by It wasn't me!


Yeah, but that's an offer, not a deal.

He won't go for less than £2 million.


I rather suspect IWM has a better grasp on current footbal finance than you here.

Whilst Moan may be after him and whilst they are one of the few clubs who could stump up £2m why should they? I think Palace will only sell if we really need to - and then we won't be in a position to say no to £1m - or Moan won't finalise until we are forced to sell.

Gooders
28-10-2002, 05:09 PM
Don't talk rot!

Lady Supporter hasn't yet posted a rumour that has come true, despite her inside track!

Current football finances have nothing to do with it. Routledge will play for England and I don't care how much Palace need the money, Jordan will not let him go for less than £2 million.

There are plenty of other, lesser, players whose contracts will not be renewed before he gives Wayne away for peanuts.

Daddy Long
28-10-2002, 05:12 PM
I'm getting a bit confused here. Were we talking about Julian for £2mill or Wayne for £2mill? Are we all talking about the same player? What is love (baby don't hurt me)? Hello, is it me you're looking for?

?

Baz To The D
29-10-2002, 10:11 AM
I am inclined to agree that, whilst Jordan's transfer dealings have not always been the most astute, as far as Wayne is concerned he realises how special he is and wont let him leave for less than a couple of million. As for Julian, I would be devestated if he were to leave, especially if he went to Charlton. Julian is under-valued by too many Palace fans, and is such a better option than Rubins. He has huge potential that simply needs to be harnessed correctly.

brighton_eagle
29-10-2002, 10:13 AM
yes, but if his contract expires at the end of the season, and he won't sign a new one, then it's goodbye Jules I'm afraid. Better to try and get something for him.

Elephant with mouse gyp
29-10-2002, 12:31 PM
Looking on the bright side, what this means is that JG has every incentive to play well this season. The better he plays, the better new club he will get; the worse he plays the more certain are his prospects of football death at The Valley.

917L
30-10-2002, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Cleon
Finally, IWM's comments re: race. I do not think Smith was conciously racist, but I think he was subconciously so. He wanted players to have the attitude of Gareth Southgate ("proud to have him as a son... he'd make a great estate agent" etc.). I suspect he felt that he couldn't connect with Smith, Mullins and Morrison. They've all since proved him wrong to criticise their attitude (Morrison's tantrum was after those comments).


You suggest he was wrong to criticise, why? it seemed to have the desired effect at the time, and the race issue seems entirely an spurious and unpleasant way of attacking AS(without any basis in fact).

Men At Work
30-10-2002, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by 917L
You suggest he was wrong to criticise, why? it seemed to have the desired effect at the time, and the race issue seems entirely an spurious and unpleasant way of attacking AS(without any basis in fact).

Criticizing someone of a different race is not racism. Criticizing someone solely because they are of a different race is prejudice. Extending the prejudice into action is racism. Smith had many faults. I don't think racism is one that can be levied against him. At that time Mullins, Morrison and Gray were three of our most talented and underperforming players. After Smith's words and actions they didn't stay underperforming very long.