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View Full Version : Tommy Black going to Carlisle??


KentishEagle
19-11-2002, 01:14 PM
Rumours rumours rumours.......The Carlisle fans on the Rivals site seem quite convinced though....

Hope its not true and if it is it better be for more than a poxy 250K this time!!!:rolleyes:

Clapham Grand
19-11-2002, 01:17 PM
I would be absolutely astonished if this were true

AddiscombeEagle
19-11-2002, 01:20 PM
I would take it, he will never make it at this level. That is me being realistic not negative.

brighton_eagle
19-11-2002, 01:21 PM
Depending on what we get for him, this could be a reasonable move. He hasn't really established himself in the first team, and is unlikely to in my opinion. If selling players like him means we can hold on to someone like Routledge, I'm all for it.

Cleon
19-11-2002, 01:24 PM
I'd take 25k for him. We're going to lose him at the end of the season anyway, and I'm just not convinced about his ability to produce at this level. Would be a case of 'thanks for the good stuff, and good luck at Carlisle'.

Clapham Grand
19-11-2002, 01:25 PM
Have Carlisle got that kind of money?

Bartman
19-11-2002, 01:28 PM
I like Tommy. He just needs someone to stop him eating all day long.
He was a really exciting prospect when he first came to Palace, and I still believe he has the potential. He's only early 20's isn't he?

Cyneagle
19-11-2002, 01:28 PM
Don't think his heart has ever been in it IMHO, since leaving his beloved Arsenal. Ditto for Gray.

Santos
19-11-2002, 01:39 PM
i think tommy Black is one of those players who relies on confidence and would need a decent run in the first team to get the best out of him I'd be dissapointed to see him leave. Can't imagine his wages are to high either.

Pub Idol
19-11-2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by AddiscombeEagle
I would take it, he will never make it at this level. That is me being realistic not negative.

He has shown plenty of times that he is capable but not consistent enough. He is still fairly young and should be given a chance to improve. And in the short term he is always a very usefull player to have on the bench.

Gooders
19-11-2002, 01:40 PM
A loan, maybe?

Cleon
19-11-2002, 01:54 PM
A loan to Carlisle would be a little pointless, other than to relieve our wage burden of Tommy's wages for a brief while. If we are to loan him out, it would be better to loan him out to at the very least a second division club who might consider buy him. Such as Wigan or Cardiff. He can flatter to deceive briefly, they offer us a small amount, we accept and Tommy gets a nice new contract.

Everyone's happy.

Daddy Long
19-11-2002, 02:05 PM
I don't want Tommy to leave. I can't help but think back to the early days under Smith where he was by far and away our best player. I'm sure that with a decent run of starts he would produce the goods again.

Beanie
19-11-2002, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
A loan to Carlisle would be a little pointless, other than to relieve our wage burden of Tommy's wages for a brief while. If we are to loan him out, it would be better to loan him out to at the very least a second division club who might consider buy him.

Depends why he's loaned out - if it is with a view to a sale what you say makes sense, if it is with a view to improving him for Palace it makes little odds where he goes, as long as he gets regular first team football.

StevieCsredandbluearmy
19-11-2002, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by brighton_eagle
Depending on what we get for him, this could be a reasonable move. He hasn't really established himself in the first team, and is unlikely to in my opinion. If selling players like him means we can hold on to someone like Routledge, I'm all for it.

Sounds to me as though you are a bit naive. SJ will cash in on Routledge as soon as he thinks he can get 1 million plus for him.

Tommy Black is not brilliant but then neither are Aki or Steven Thomson - never rated either of them.

Beanie
19-11-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by StevieCsredandbluearmy
Sounds to me as though you are a bit naive. SJ will cash in on Routledge as soon as he thinks he can get 1 million plus for him.

Tommy Black is not brilliant but then neither are Aki or Steven Thomson - never rated either of them.

Or perhaps you are just so cynical it's depressing. No decent player who ghasn't wanted to go has left, so waht do you base this on?

brighton_eagle
19-11-2002, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by StevieCsredandbluearmy
Sounds to me as though you are a bit naive. SJ will cash in on Routledge as soon as he thinks he can get 1 million plus for him.

Tommy Black is not brilliant but then neither are Aki or Steven Thomson - never rated either of them.

Naive? Maybe. But note the use of the word if in my original post.

nookiebear
19-11-2002, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by StevieCsredandbluearmy
Sounds to me as though you are a bit naive. SJ will cash in on Routledge as soon as he thinks he can get 1 million plus for him.

Tommy Black is not brilliant but then neither are Aki or Steven Thomson - never rated either of them.

Surely Jordan is making sure we can keep players like Routledge by reducing the wage bill of fringe players like Black, Rubins, Kabba, who rarely feature for the first team?

Benzhiyi
19-11-2002, 02:41 PM
Aren't Carlisle skint and almost bottom of Division Three?

Can't see it happening myself!

The Omen
19-11-2002, 02:46 PM
I'm not a season ticket holder at Selhurst so my word is not as valued as others, but from what I've seen of Tommy, he has always impressed me.

I would be sad to see him go. I think he could go on to be a very good player - especially when he is played up front.

Al From Bromley
19-11-2002, 04:13 PM
Mixed feelings really. I think he's certainly better than playing at Carlisle's level but too often when he gets on for Palace all he wants to do is run and run and run at players until he runs up a cul-de-sac or else take poxy short corners. He seems to have the talent, but only when HE wants to produce it.

Raggy
19-11-2002, 04:27 PM
I seem to remember we paid at least 500,000 for him (1m for him and Gray together). If this is true what are the chances of us recouping that money?

Cleon
19-11-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Raggy
I seem to remember we paid at least 500,000 for him (1m for him and Gray together). If this is true what are the chances of us recouping that money?

No chance.

StevieCsredandbluearmy
19-11-2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by nookiebear
Surely Jordan is making sure we can keep players like Routledge by reducing the wage bill of fringe players like Black, Rubins, Kabba, who rarely feature for the first team?

Hope you are right and I am wrong but I have my doubts. Remember, that Gray for one has not signed a new contract and if SJ wants to keep him then he should try and sort this out, assuming that he is not after a 40% pay rise that is.

BVB Bob
19-11-2002, 05:45 PM
Can't help being reminded of a conversation I had with a Bristol City mate when we signed Tommy. His comment was that he'll be brilliant for 5 games, go cr@p straight after, then flatter to deceive with his heart not really in it for the rest of the time. Apparently that's what he did when he was on loan there. Seems to me that's what he's done here too. Carlisle alledgedly do have some money so it's feasible but I can't see them spending it all on one player. More realistic is a deal that may bring Richie Foran to us. Not sad to see him go, but thought he'd do better than Div3.

Sir.S.C Remembered
19-11-2002, 06:17 PM
I rate him although not as a winger and know he has his weaknesses but feel he is our most effective creative player barring Routledge and I feel confidant he can change games when he comes on

loomobardo
19-11-2002, 06:20 PM
if his contract isnt being renewed at the end of the season then rip there hands 250k is 250k!!.... +hes only a squad fringe player doesnt look like hes ever gonna be a super star 4 us :p

jempie
19-11-2002, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Bartman
I like Tommy. He just needs someone to stop him eating all day long.
He was a really exciting prospect when he first came to Palace, and I still believe he has the potential. He's only early 20's isn't he?

When they first joined TB was better than JG.

Arsenal fans said that Jules would be better.

Personally, I think their wrong.

JG is more lightweight, and cannot cross at all. At least TB takes on the odd player.

Verdict: Sell em both.

Gerry from Sussex
19-11-2002, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by BVB Bob
Can't help being reminded of a conversation I had with a Bristol City mate when we signed Tommy. His comment was that he'll be brilliant for 5 games, go cr@p straight after, then flatter to deceive with his heart not really in it for the rest of the time. Apparently that's what he did when he was on loan there. Seems to me that's what he's done here too. Carlisle alledgedly do have some money so it's feasible but I can't see them spending it all on one player. More realistic is a deal that may bring Richie Foran to us. Not sad to see him go, but thought he'd do better than Div3.

I didn't even know he'd been to Bristol. But I do remember what my arsenal friends said when we signed him and Gray - which was that he was okay but nothing special. Julian Gray on the other hand was very highly thought of. Based on performances so far that assesment seems pretty accurate as Gray has been the better player overall, although Tommy Black has had some good patches along the way.

He's only getting on the bench even when we have so many injuries so he's obviously not going to figure in a major way in the forseeable future. On that basis I'd take the money and reduce the wage bill (Div 3 seems a bit unfair on the player though - he's better than that).

Gooders
19-11-2002, 06:42 PM
Julian will not be staying - there are quite a few people around him who are telling him that he can play at a higher level.

IMHO, both players from the Arse have fallen well short of what I thought they looked capable of two years ago. But then the Arse don't really release players for no good reason do they?

Al From Bromley
19-11-2002, 07:08 PM
Fancy Dan's the pair of them :)

Riccardo
19-11-2002, 07:28 PM
Hasn't a millionaire businessman taken over as chairman at Blundell Park ?

250k ? See ya Tommy, thanks for those 2 goals vs. Leyton Orient ;)


Personally, I don't think he's good enough to get a new contract. :(

Riccardo
19-11-2002, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by jempie

JG is more lightweight, and cannot cross at all. At least TB takes on the odd player.

Verdict: Sell em both.

MADNESS !!!!!!!!!!!!

:eek: :confused: :eek:

Latvian
19-11-2002, 07:37 PM
Sell him, hasnt passed for ages!

Hang The DJ
19-11-2002, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered
I rate him although not as a winger and know he has his weaknesses but feel he is our most effective creative player barring Routledge and I feel confidant he can change games when he comes on


Hmmm......Tommy Black more creative than Dougie Freedman????

Let's face it the guy has had two and a half years at Palace under 4 different managers. Like Rubins he has impressed none of them enough to command a first team place.

How many times has he come on as a sub to hopeful applause from the crowd that he might turn a game only to fail dreadfully with his final ball. I can only think of the Walsall away game where he had a significant impact.

He has not progressed as a player and is destined for a life in Div Two. We have Routledge, Butterfield, Smith (when fit) and Johnson who can all play wide right and each one do a better job.

Teddy
19-11-2002, 08:54 PM
are you all nuts. tommy black is quality

Latvian
19-11-2002, 10:27 PM
Thomas Fat

Did anyone else notice he didnt come over and clap away fans before match vs. Naaaarch.

Perhaps it was too much exercise for the poor chap. He doesnt seem to be happy here!

Nelson Muntz
19-11-2002, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Latvian
Sell him, hasnt passed for ages!

Truest words so far......

Sussex Eagle
20-11-2002, 02:04 AM
TB has been my least favourite player since about 3/4 months into his palace career- can't shoot, can't get a corner over the 1st man, very greedy, and he never seems to learn- he has a lot of talent in 1 very limited part of his game- running down the right flank till he gets very,very near to the goalpost. If he had a bit more brains to him he could probably develop into a decent player but it doesn't look like that will ever happen. With 5 or 6 strikers better than him and routledge in a different league to him after 7 league starts I would be grateful for anything we get for him. I would like to keep gray but he'll have no problem getting a bosman to a bottom half premiership team (my bets on birmingham/charlton/portsmouth in the summer) and what reasons he got to stay? However, we MUST make sure we get Mullins a new contract- I don't want to be one of those sides with a new squad every year!

Gazza2
20-11-2002, 09:51 AM
Let him go. If he is out of contract soon, rip their hands off for 250k.
Had plenty of chances in his time at Palace. Flatters to deceive. Will be nowhere near 1st team when Routledge is fit. Also, Johnson and Butterfield are more effective wide right players.

Does letting Black go mean that rumours that we are after Danny Invincible (wide right player) could be true?

wedgetail
20-11-2002, 10:08 AM
Tommy has all the talent in the world but talent is not enough by its self, BVB Bob's post is spot on.

jempie
20-11-2002, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Riccardo
MADNESS !!!!!!!!!!!!

:eek: :confused: :eek:

Why do you say that?

Sell them while we can, then either bring up some academy wingers, or buy wingers, that can actually cross a ball.

arussell
20-11-2002, 10:47 AM
What really amazes me is that there's not one shred of evidence anywhere to say it might happen, and yet everyone is already waving him goodbye !

Snorwood Eagle
20-11-2002, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Al from Bromley
Mixed feelings really. I think he's certainly better than playing at Carlisle's level but too often when he gets on for Palace all he wants to do is run and run and run at players until he runs up a cul-de-sac or else take poxy short corners. He seems to have the talent, but only when HE wants to produce it.

Spot on Al. I'm not a big fan of Tom, but I think he could be so much better if he was coached better. Since he has come to Palace he hasn't really progressed. He does run down dead ends time and time again, and his final ball often isn't great or he doesn't even get that far full stop.

Benzhiyi
20-11-2002, 11:00 AM
One other thing worth remembering - Tommy Black doesn't have to leave even if Palace agree to sell him. I very much doubt he'd want to join Carlisle unless they can offer an increase in wages, which is unlikely. Jordan wouldn't let him play for Palace again if he refused a move, but to the same end he has to keep paying his wages if Tommy turns down the chance to move.

Brod
20-11-2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Benzhiyi
One other thing worth remembering - Tommy Black doesn't have to leave even if Palace agree to sell him. I very much doubt he'd want to join Carlisle unless they can offer an increase in wages, which is unlikely.

Yes, but there'll be lots of players out of contract come the summer. A bird in the hand... If I was him I'd take a Kabba.

Stumpy
20-11-2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Teddy
are you all nuts. tommy black is quality

And this opinion is based on how many quality performances from Tommy Black?
1) A good goal against Norwich at home I think,

2) Errmmmmmmmmmmmmm

3) ................

Dobbo
20-11-2002, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Gazza2
Does letting Black go mean that rumours that we are after Danny Invincible (wide right player) could be true?
Is that a genuine name or a joke ?
Sounds like that guy from WWF named Justin Credible :rolleyes:

Selhurst300
20-11-2002, 01:43 PM
Been nothing about this on Radio Cumbria, and they normally are up front with news like this.
Carlisle do have some money with an Irish businessman, John Courtney, having bought the club recently.
The Irish manager, whose name escapes me, has brought in a lot of Irish players, so if TB is coming up to join the Cumbrians, I suggest he gets an Irish accent.

GreatGonzo
20-11-2002, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by arussell
What really amazes me is that there's not one shred of evidence anywhere to say it might happen, and yet everyone is already waving him goodbye !

Good isn't it! :D

But thats why you come into Transfer Hotline Alan!

Gilow
20-11-2002, 02:14 PM
I would be sad to see him leave, although he has always got to go around one more player instead of playing the easy ball. He has got skill and can skin alot of players, but Alot is not good enough for him it has to do just one more player.

To be honest i dont think he will leave, it will be a big upset if he does!

Men At Work
20-11-2002, 09:14 PM
Perhaps it's all a rumour started by TF in order to scare Tommy into producing some decent form, similar to the way James Beattie started playing well when he was linked with a transfer to us a couple of seasons ago.

nicky
20-11-2002, 09:42 PM
Black going? Maybe.

To Carlisle? No way.

Carlisle are probably signing his even chubbier elder brother from non-league football.

Captain Black
20-11-2002, 09:43 PM
I'm always amazed that Tommy Black actually made it through the Arsenal academy. The guy has great skill and pace but he just doesn't have the footballing intelligence to succeed. How many times does he run into blind alleys when a simple pass would keep the attack moving? I fear it's too late in the day for coaching to save him.

I'm not sure that even a move to a lower division club would sort this out, though he might do better playing as a striker rather than as a winger. With the present financial situation I could see Jordan wanting to move him on if he could get a fee.

arussell
20-11-2002, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
But thats why you come into Transfer Hotline Alan!


Ah but I don't come in here at all Gonzo - I'm merely here to babysit you lot ;)

Riccardo
20-11-2002, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by jempie
Why do you say that?



As I think JG is quality - not playing well at the moment, but will come through this bad patch.

glaziers fan
21-11-2002, 01:22 AM
If Black goes anywhere it will be to Brighton on loan because Steve Coppell is a big fan

Dobbo
21-11-2002, 08:07 AM
Notice he didn't play for the reserves y'day - does that mean he starts against Grimsby, or are these rumours true ?

Gooders
21-11-2002, 08:26 AM
I saw Carlisle being linked with another striker in yesterdays papers so they are definitely in the market for someone.

arussell
21-11-2002, 11:54 AM
Just to clarify this a bit.

Tommy didn't play in the reserves yesterday becuase he's in the first team playing squad at the moment.

Carlisle were rumoured to have been after an attacker - which it turns out is Bradley Allen.

Selhurst300
21-11-2002, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by arussell
Just to clarify this a bit.

Tommy didn't play in the reserves yesterday becuase he's in the first team playing squad at the moment.

Carlisle were rumoured to have been after an attacker - which it turns out is Bradley Allen.

The Bradley Allen story was carried on Radio Cumbria a couple of days ago, but nothing since. Still totally nothing there about TB. However, my financial advisers states "The Tommy Black rumour can be confirmed. If he still drinks Guinness then he will be a definite addition to the squad !!"
What more can one say?

Jason
21-11-2002, 03:01 PM
I know this doesn't mean a lot, but read on the BBC website yesterday that Carlisle are after TWO attacking players. The story says that they are after "a player who was on loan at the club a few seasons ago, and another more experienced attacker". The more experienced player was obviously Bradley Allen, but memory tells me that Black had a loan spell at Carlise while at Arsenal (could be wrong here). If this is the case the story could have some truth in it.

As for a fee if he does go, I'd suspect somewhere between 50 to 100k. As has been said elsewhere though, it could all be complete rubbish

arussell
21-11-2002, 03:11 PM
Tommy was on loan at Carlisle for a month back in 1999.

To be honest - I'd be astonished if he'd want to go there.

He may as well sit out his contract and leave on a free at the end of the season on a Bosman.

I guarantee that a club like QPR or Brentford would want him on a free.

Carlisle have also just signed Wimbledon striker Paul Robinson on loan, who was at Grimsby recently.

Walrus
21-11-2002, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Dobbo
Is that a genuine name or a joke ?
Sounds like that guy from WWF named Justin Credible :rolleyes:

Danny Invincible plays (I think he's still there) for Swindon, and is an aussie with some assorted european extraction thrown in. His surname isn't actually "Invincible" but is spelt along the same lines.......you can't expect Swindon's finest to be able to pronounce anything more challenging than "We Arrrrrrrrr The Oxford - Haters" hence he's called Invincible.

Dunno if he'd be able to cut it in Div 1 though, although he's looked good whenever I've seen him play for Swindon.

Gooders
22-11-2002, 08:01 AM
I read this morning that Carlisle have signed someone from Wimbledon on a 3-month loan. A striker.

Given that they still play at Selhurst Park, one can begin to see how people hear snippets of info, put two and two together, and get five.

1st Carlisle fan: "I hear we're going to be signing an out of favour forward from a team that plays at Selhurst Park"
2nd Carlisle fan: "I bet it's Tommy Black!"

Edmundo
23-11-2002, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by arussell
I guarantee that a club like QPR or Brentford would want him on a free. Too right. We once had an offer of 500,000 accepted by Arsenal for Black, only for Black to decide he would find a First Division club at the end of the season. But would he play for 500 a week?