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The Omen
24-09-2003, 10:10 AM
Ok, I think we are far enough into this seasons campaign to roughly see what we are to expect from our team.

To everyone who constantly moaned about Francis, has anything really changed now that the messiah (in a lot of peoples eyes) has been moved into the hot seat? Infact maybe it has even become worse...?

This isnt a Kember out thread, but I STILL do not think we will ever go up with this guy in charge. I still can't understand how we are passing up good potential managers like Pardew (when Reading were Div 2), Dowie at Oldham and I'm sure there are a few more. I still stand by the fact that the club needs a massive clear out - and I don't mean the players, I mean the backroom staff. We're stale.

We are in for another mid-table season, flirting with the play-offs and teasing with the lower half.

No ambition.

:S:

EagleSE24
24-09-2003, 10:18 AM
Agreed. We are definately stuck in a rut. We need a couple of no nonsense players who aren't afraid to get stuck in, will win their headers and will challenge for every 50/50.
Also our formation which looks pretty on paper must be changed to 442, if only for a couple of games to see the difference. If it doesn't work I will happily eat humble pie. The humbleberry is one of my favourites.

The Omen
24-09-2003, 10:23 AM
I hope I end up eating humble pie too.

I just find it frustrating, we have had so many chances to really scrap the management team and start again and we never do! Since SJ has been chairman:

Coppell
Smith
Bruce
Francis
Kember

Yet he keeps only changing the front man. Hopefully when Kember finally gets the boot, it will be a catalyst for a major change.

Pistike
24-09-2003, 10:25 AM
At 1-2 down with a minute to play on Saturday I was in agreement.

Its a big if but IF all the bad luck (red cards, last minute / injury time equalisers & defeats and missed penalties) even themselves out over the season I still think we can finish 5th or 6th.

Hell 7th would be a massive improvement on TFs tenure.

limited_edition
24-09-2003, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Pistike
Its a big if but IF all the bad luck (red cards, last minute / injury time equalisers & defeats and missed penalties) even themselves out over the season I still think we can finish 5th or 6th.

Hell 7th would be a massive improvement on TFs tenure. We certainly got a large slice of luck last night by the sound of it. 7th would most definately be an improvement - since we got relegated in 1998 the highest we've finished is 10th. OK, we aren't playing particularily brilliantly, but the Bradford match aside, we are showing good character to get something from matches despite this. Under Francis, we had the tendency to roll over and die when the going got tough.

The thing that concerns me this season is the injury situation. Despite all the spiel about extra training in the summer with rugby coaches blah, blah, blah, niggling injuries occur to the same players - Pops, Symons, Freedman and Clarke. That is our major problem. If we have a fully squad we can sneak into the Play Offs. If we miss a couple of key players for too long, we won't.

Scroatey
24-09-2003, 10:56 AM
GET OFF KEMBER'S BACK!

I think we should treat Kember as if he is a new manager to the Club! More so because he's worked there so long, under a long list of managers, both good - Coppell and Bruce, and not so good - the rest.

People assume that because he's been here as a coach he should be able to pick up the mantle and get us promoted straight away. I think he should be given a season to build and shape the team as he wants, as we would with any new manager.

He's had very limited resources compared to Francis in terms of choosing his own players, and we lack cover at the back and a first choice left sided player.

Kember is surely in the first stages of a manager's post, and that is getting rid of the deadwood, stabilising the ship, and teaching the team to play his way.

So far I've seen a team play with passion, fight back from goals down, attack with pace and guile, not settle for a draw, and with time they will gel, and hopefully have continuity on the team sheet.

I suspect for a few shortsighted people finishing above 10th won't be enough, hopefully for Jordan it will be!

andy m
24-09-2003, 10:57 AM
Was anyone expecting promotion this season? I wasn't, and that didn't change despite three straight wins at the start of the season. I think we have seen already one major improvement on the Francis era and that is that we don't roll over and die any more. We haven't lost a game by more than a single goal, and have got good points against the likes of Millwall and West Brom against the odds. I'm not saying I love it at the moment, just that I don't reckon we're too far away from turning some of those defeats, which would have been heavier under Francis, into draws. Arguably most people would agree that draws against Sheff Utd, Sunderland and Bradford would have been fairer results. If we'd got them then we'd probably only be here now moaning about the Bradford game! I don't think we're that far away and, whilst I too have to be convinced that Kember is the man for the job, I reckon he deserves more of a chance, and I'm prepared for that to be the whole of this season. If it still looks crap then get rid of him, but forget about promotion, a top half finish would be progress and enough for me to want to give him another year.

Maz
24-09-2003, 10:59 AM
But doesn't the start to every season represent the triumph of hope over reality?

Aren't we used to these false dawns by now?

Wingy_CPFC
24-09-2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by andy m
Was anyone expecting promotion this season? I wasn't, and that didn't change despite three straight wins at the start of the season. I think we have seen already one major improvement on the Francis era and that is that we don't roll over and die any more. We haven't lost a game by more than a single goal, and have got good points against the likes of Millwall and West Brom against the odds. I'm not saying I love it at the moment, just that I don't reckon we're too far away from turning some of those defeats, which would have been heavier under Francis, into draws. Arguably most people would agree that draws against Sheff Utd, Sunderland and Bradford would have been fairer results. If we'd got them then we'd probably only be here now moaning about the Bradford game! I don't think we're that far away and, whilst I too have to be convinced that Kember is the man for the job, I reckon he deserves more of a chance, and I'm prepared for that to be the whole of this season. If it still looks crap then get rid of him, but forget about promotion, a top half finish would be progress and enough for me to want to give him another year.

Well said.

Dodger
24-09-2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by andy m
I don't think we're that far away and, whilst I too have to be convinced that Kember is the man for the job, I reckon he deserves more of a chance, and I'm prepared for that to be the whole of this season. If it still looks crap then get rid of him, but forget about promotion, a top half finish would be progress and enough for me to want to give him another year.

Agreed. A top 10 finish and signs of continual improvement in team spirit, style of play, etc.. will be good enough for me.

Geezer
24-09-2003, 11:28 AM
Improvement is what we've got to look for, if it gets worse or stays the same it's bad.
Whilst that didn't make sense you get the idea.

N Herts Eagle
24-09-2003, 11:34 AM
I was not in favour of SK appointment and would have prefered Dowie howevr he is the man in charge and now is the time to give him a chnace we have seen some improvement said it on other posts we will know come the end of October where our season is going so now is the time to get behind the team and the manager. I would love to see one or two new players but lets be realistic the chances are we would be lucky to get one before Christmas. There are a lot of good young players coming through Borrowdale Watson Routledge and Williams we could still come good this season

sydnsteve
24-09-2003, 11:44 AM
I think he is the wrong man, appointed for the wrong reasons, because SJ hasn't a clue (and now there are suggestions that Sir Steve might go to Reading!).
I haven't moaned at games as the team spirit (other than vs Bradford) has been far better than last year, but there are big worries over SK's tactical abilities, team selection and use of subs. I think Xmas is the time to see how he is doing. I fundamentally disagree that he should be considered as a new manager. The only reason a new man is given time is that ha does not know the club or players, that does not apply to SK or TB. The good start has turned a bit sour, and there was a longish period under TF that he seemed to have got it right, only to revert to type.
The jury is very much still out on our present management, but I wish them all the luck.

Panther
24-09-2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Pistike
Its a big if but IF all the bad luck (red cards, last minute / injury time equalisers & defeats and missed penalties) even themselves out over the season I still think we can finish 5th or 6th.


You could say much the same about TF's reign though. If we hadn't had the injuries, poor refereeing decisions in Cups, etc..... (don't get me wrong, I wasn't a TF fan). Unfortunately, the line between success and failure can be very narrow.

I suppose the thing to hope for is a manager who may not be much good but is at least lucky! Though I'd prefer one who was simply good.

The Omen
24-09-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by sydnsteve
I think he is the wrong man, appointed for the wrong reasons, because SJ hasn't a clue (and now there are suggestions that Sir Steve might go to Reading!).
I haven't moaned at games as the team spirit (other than vs Bradford) has been far better than last year, but there are big worries over SK's tactical abilities, team selection and use of subs. I think Xmas is the time to see how he is doing. I fundamentally disagree that he should be considered as a new manager. The only reason a new man is given time is that ha does not know the club or players, that does not apply to SK or TB. The good start has turned a bit sour, and there was a longish period under TF that he seemed to have got it right, only to revert to type.
The jury is very much still out on our present management, but I wish them all the luck.

I agree with this.

SKATE
24-09-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Dodger
Agreed. A top 10 finish and signs of continual improvement in team spirit, style of play, etc.. will be good enough for me.

Good enough for me too!

el mico
24-09-2003, 01:24 PM
Sorry I don't agree with these sentiments. It's only a few games into the season and you're saying a top 10 finish would be ok. If the players thought like this (and maybe they do) what chances would we have of the play offs/ promotion this season? You've got to aim high, I'm not saying it will happen, but you have to believe it until it is mathematically impossible. I want promotion, midtable obscurity is the equivalent of a slow death. Yes, it would be good if we improved our entertainment levels, but surely this a natural byproduct of winning games. Don't give up, it's not even October yet......

Tim
24-09-2003, 02:00 PM
I do totally agree with these sentiments since SJ took over every manager has had one hand tied behind there back. WE have without doubt stagnated, I say again I feel a change is needed and beleive SJ has done a job for us i.e saved us from administration, but dispite everything he has said and spent the club is not moving forward in any way. I think he should make way for a new buyer!

Gladys Allover
24-09-2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Tim
I think he should make way for a new buyer!
And they are being crushed in the queue to take over where exactly? :clown:

Tim
24-09-2003, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Gladys Allover
And they are being crushed in the queue to take over where exactly? :clown:

But why are you all so sure there is`nt a new buyer or would`nt be one if the club was put up for sale!:clown:

andy m
24-09-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Tim
But why are you all so sure there is`nt a new buyer or would`nt be one if the club was put up for sale!:clown:

Thats a fair point actually. Jordan doesn't seem very keen to seel, so perhaps interested parties haven't bothered enquiring?

Tim
24-09-2003, 03:00 PM
The club was hardly an attractive proposition when SJ brought it but there were afew interested parties then. There are those on this site who claim to have inside knowledge, who say Ron Noades would not of abandoned the club when we were staring extinction in the face. He was obviously confident a buyer would be found, so why not now. The new Roman is out there you never know!

DougleMcNori
24-09-2003, 03:07 PM
I think a lot has changed, i cant remember a Palace team with so much fight and determination for a long time. Weve got to give Kember a chance to get used to being full time manager, he is still imposing his style on the players and that will take time.

We were all moaning about why doesnt Williams start - well maybe in training he doesnt impress, who knows? Im sure Kember knows - as I hear Williams did ok last night but maybe not ready for 1st team action just yet.
I think AJ has come on tons this season and im expecting a lot more goals from him and dougie, ships isnt fully fit but the quality doesnt just go in a season & he will start banging the goals in like last year soon enough.
Weve had some bad decisions against us, numerous sending offs, suspensions and last minute heartbreaks - quite a lot to deal with for a managers first two months in what i believe to be the most competitive divison one for a long time& im sure all the problems will build us in character for what will be a good season where we make the playoffs.

SKATE
24-09-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by el mico
Sorry I don't agree with these sentiments. It's only a few games into the season and you're saying a top 10 finish would be ok. If the players thought like this (and maybe they do) what chances would we have of the play offs/ promotion this season? You've got to aim high, I'm not saying it will happen, but you have to believe it until it is mathematically impossible. I want promotion, midtable obscurity is the equivalent of a slow death. Yes, it would be good if we improved our entertainment levels, but surely this a natural byproduct of winning games. Don't give up, it's not even October yet......

Fair point! But I can cope with anything but the hope.........

monkey
24-09-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Maz
But doesn't the start to every season represent the triumph of hope over reality?

Aren't we used to these false dawns by now?

absolutely 100% spot on:p
we're palace fans,It comes with the territory:rolleyes:

Al From Bromley
24-09-2003, 04:19 PM
One of the most over dramatic threads ever. Apart from the fatc we're a couple of points better off than at the same stage last season, and just 3 points off 7th place and 6 off the top, the team has a much more fighting spirit about it. Last night didnt demand that sort of spirit, but was, in fact, an opportunity to take it easy and ease our way through to the next round without the expense of a couple more injuries. As for 'false dawn', who of you expected automatic promotion in reality? I can't understand this expectation of a team to go out weekin week out and play the oppostiino off the park. Even the Man U's and Arsenal's of the world can't do that so what chance Paalce? Reality used to be a friend of yours, as PM dawn once said!

Maz
24-09-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
I can't understand this expectation of a team to go out weekin week out and play the oppostiino off the park. It's the only reason I buy a season ticket or two.

If I really thought that every week or so they might take it easy, I'd think again...

In reality I know they will - but that's the difference between expectation and reality....

(Although what playing an Italian postman has got to do with it I don't know...:confused: )

Walrus
24-09-2003, 04:40 PM
Sorry Al, but the "False Dawn" is an equal reaction to all the hype and chest-beating emanating from many quarters following our good start. Indeed, the hype had started before a ball was kicked this season as SK's revolution was set to blow away the ghosts of the TF era.

Don't believe the hype, as Public Enemy once said ;)

Al From Bromley
24-09-2003, 04:48 PM
...Sk's revolution still will blow away those ghosts, but things don't happen overnight, even for the best managers in the world with lots of money at their disposal.

Sunny Fan
24-09-2003, 04:50 PM
As long as Watson and Routledge keep playing I'll be happy.
I know, easily pleased.

Beanie
24-09-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by sydnsteve
The only reason a new man is given time is that ha does not know the club or players, that does not apply to SK or TB.

This isn't the only reason - although it is a reason. The other part, and perhaps the bigger part, is that the "new man" needs time to produce "his team" and to get them playing, and winning, his way.

Now SK certainly had the benefit of knowing the players at the club - but that did not mean that a) he wanted them all or b) he didn't want to add. This is shown by the fact that some have gone or are going, others have arrived or are (possibly at least) arriving. He then had the task of changing the spirit in the team - which he appears to have done, at least most of the time, and of changing the style of play, which he is doing. Getting the team playing the way he wants is not just a matter of telling them what to do or drawing a few pretty diagrams on the board in the changing room. At the moment the problem would seem to be that the style has swung too much to the passing mode - they seem to have forgotten that they are allowed to shoot, or get in an early cross, but I believe that there is a fundamental difference, and an improvemnet in style and spirit. As I was once told in another field of endevour by an assessor "I can see what you're trying do, and that's good - the problem at the moment is that you're doing it badly. Come back when you've practiced a bit more".

We should give Kember at least until Christmas (TF got over a year) before we draw any real conclussions. As has been said what we should be looking for is improvement over a period, one or two poor games does NOT mean that the principle is wrong.

Al From Bromley
24-09-2003, 05:05 PM
Beanie. The voice of reason, and a refreshing change from some of the "bilge" we get on here ;)

The Omen
24-09-2003, 09:38 PM
I never expected promotion. I did expect to see the results and league positions we are acheiving though. It's not a false dawn for me, just for the supporters who worship Kember.

It's a wake up call.

hong_kong_hg
24-09-2003, 10:03 PM
Carl I'd much rather we have
(a) Spirit and fight from the players
(b) Fans behind the manager
(c) Good atmosphere at Selhurst Park

At the moment I'm pleased to say we have all three. The fans have been mostly behind the team all the way three of the last four home matches (Sheff U, WB, Donc) and that alone is a refreshing change from the depressing negativity of last season. And as others have pointed out I'm overjoyed to see Routledge and Watson play - unlike others though I think Kember is doing just the right thing by not playing them from the start every game so the they burn out and the crowd turn against them. Last night Watson was excellent and (fingers crossed) looks an even better prospect than Routledge.

glaziers fan
24-09-2003, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by hong_kong_hg
Carl I'd much rather we have
(a) Spirit and fight from the players
(b) Fans behind the manager
(c) Good atmosphere at Selhurst Park

At the moment I'm pleased to say we have all three. The fans have been mostly behind the team all the way three of the last four home matches (Sheff U, WB, Donc) and that alone is a refreshing change from the depressing negativity of last season. And as others have pointed out I'm overjoyed to see Routledge and Watson play - unlike others though I think Kember is doing just the right thing by not playing them from the start every game so the they burn out and the crowd turn against them. Last night Watson was excellent and (fingers crossed) looks an even better prospect than Routledge.

Agreed, bring the youngsters on slowly, and also agree, WATSON IS BETTER THAN WAYNE ROUTLEDGE! AND IF HE PROGRESSES, WILL BE AN ENGLAND PLAYER!

hong_kong_hg
24-09-2003, 10:31 PM
Not sure Watson is "better" than Routledge -they're both very different players. Ben is clearly a central midfielder and excels there, whilst Wayne is clearly NOT a left wing back or centre forward and should not be played there. Wayne needs a settled position which is why I'd rather see 442 where he can play wide right with Butterfield behind him - but I'll applaud Kembers softly-sofly approach all the same. Shaun "Ray Wilkins" Derry and Aki "Alan Pardew" Rihiilahti are hopefully rightly under pressure with talent like Watson held in the wings and should be raising their game accordingly to justify their place in the team. A shame I say we released Adebola because Shipperley is hardly justifying his enthusiasticly lauded return to the side just at the moment.

Hang The DJ
24-09-2003, 10:33 PM
I'm not sure it makes a lot of difference who our manager is. We have a team packed with very average players who occasionally rise above the norm - hence why we have ended up in mid/lower table for the past 5 seasons. The only two players with real class are Freedman and Watson.

My only hope is that this next generation of kids - Surey, Soares, Berry etc start to break into the team alongside Routledge, Watson, Borrowdale and slowly but surely we develop into a promotion outfit a la Forest.

Beanie
25-09-2003, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Hang The DJ
.....and slowly but surely we develop into a promotion outfit .....

I just hope that the "everything now" mentality allows this to happen. Most teams who have achieved any degree of long term success have developed this way. Instant fix is nearly always almost as instant decline.

Ashardasucan
25-09-2003, 11:44 AM
Cannot believe that some people are questioning whether SK is the right man for the job and we are not yet 2 months into the season.



:rolleyes:

917L
25-09-2003, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by hong_kong_hg
Not sure Watson is "better" than Routledge -they're both very different players.

Agree with the basic of this but he is better in the sense that he 'delivers' more frequently, Wayne still suffers from trying to look good at times without the final ball, what is good is that both along with Borrowdale and hopefully others can develop into very good players.

sydnsteve
25-09-2003, 01:27 PM
Beanie. Don't pick a selective quote. I did actually say that I thought Xmas would be a good time to decide what sort of job SK is doing.
As for Asharduscan, I said before SK got the job I thought he was the wrong man, but I will be very pleased if he proves me wrong, just as I would have been with Francis. At the moment I have an open mind, but I am of the opinion that he is a good motivator but a poor tactician. Revisit on Dec 26th.

The Vicar
25-09-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
One of the most over dramatic threads ever.

Quite -- very melodramatic.

I actually disagree with the assumption of the thread. In my view, the sun is rising.

GekkoVsFox
25-09-2003, 01:51 PM
I hope you are right Vicar.

I agree with you 90%.

But I'd be a liar if I didn't admit that there is a part of me thats nagging me telling me to stop kidding myself. Our team has shown promise for a number of seasons and failed to live up to it thanks to injuries and 'bad luck', as well as of course managers and chairmen. Whats changed this season? - we are still being hounded by injuries and late opposition goals. Not to mention red cards. I am a believer that to a certain extent you must make your own luck - where do we go wrong?

Having said this there are still reasons to be positive:

1. We undeniably have more fight this season.
2. We have exciting youngsters coming to the fore.
3. We have a manager who, in spite of this thread, the majority love.
4. Its early days - our potential can still be harnessed.

For the record, I'm not ashamed to admit that I was spoilt by our success of the late 1980s/1990s having only started going in 1984. Mid-table mediocrity in Division One will not do. But no-one is going to instill more fight into the team than it is showing right now. Perhaps we just need to find that x-factor that always used to be there.

James
25-09-2003, 01:52 PM
Interesting thread – but as Al said, it is a bit ‘over dramatic’. Why should we expect a new manager to work miracles in only a few weeks? It’s unrealistic and grossly unfair on Kember.

Despite what some on the BBS might think, we do not have the best – or even one of the best – squads in the Division. We have a one or two excellent players, but there are weaknesses (discussed at length on other threads) and we lack strength in depth. One or two injuries and this Squad looks decidedly average.

Steve Kember is bound to make mistakes. He is human so he will have prejudices. He may favour (or otherwise) certain players for reasons not completely connected with ability and ‘team fit’. However, I really do doubt that he is any worse than most managers in this respect and he seems infinitely better that Francis (who refused ever to admit that Akinbiyi for example was anything other than a disaster). I would also suggest that he is far, far better placed than any of us to make these decisions.

I would be delighted with a finish close to the Play-Off places (even if we don’t quite make sixth spot) and despite our failings, I am confident that we can expect to finish in the top half of the Division – perhaps well placed to mount a serious push for promotion the following Season. My concern, however, remains that the one person who matters (Simon Jordan) may not be able to wait that long.

Jordan has hinted several times that he expects Kember to succeed with this squad. If Kember can’t perform the miracle required, I fear for him. Even if some of us are prepared to give the man time, Jordan may not be able to. Miracles are certainly required to be performed and they may be needed very quickly indeed.

Jack Regan
25-09-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by James
I would be delighted with a finish close to the Play-Off places (even if we don’t quite make sixth spot) and despite our failings, I am confident that we can expect to finish in the top half of the Division – perhaps well placed to mount a serious push for promotion the following Season.

James,

Like me, you're not getting any younger. We won't be rushing to join the Ambassadors Club, that's fair to say.

But I can't believe that you're already prepared to write this season off (in September already) as one of ...and I hate this word.....

con-sol-id-a-shun

I want promotion - and I want it THIS SEASON !!!

Justin
25-09-2003, 02:02 PM
It is well known that Jordan has wanted out for a while and I fear the crunch is rapidly approaching. On Tuesday night he described the club "as an albatross around his neck" and claimed he has not enjoyed one game since he became Chairman. Previously he has been reasonably discreet about his willingness to sell but it would appear this is no longer the case. The same problem remains though - who in their right mind would want to buy the club?

I will qualify all the above with "allegedly".

andy m
25-09-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Jack Regan
James,

Like me, you're not getting any younger. We won't be rushing to join the Ambassadors Club, that's fair to say.

But I can't believe that you're already prepared to write this season off (in September already) as one of ...and I hate this word.....

con-sol-id-a-shun

I want promotion - and I want it THIS SEASON !!!

Consolidation is one way of looking at it. Taking time to prepare and build a solid basis for sustained future success is my preferred take. Just hope SJ lets it happen.

Tim
25-09-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Justin
The same problem remains though - who in their right mind would want to buy the club?

Who in their right mind would have brought the club when SJ did, I honestly beleive SJ moving on could be for the best.

Jack Regan
25-09-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by andy m
Consolidation is one way of looking at it. Taking time to prepare and build a solid basis for sustained future success is my preferred take. Just hope SJ lets it happen.

NO!

NO! NO! NO!

We nearly (and should've) beat West Brom last week who've just been relegated. We're good enough now. Good management is what's required.

Enough of this defeatism already.

The Vicar
25-09-2003, 02:17 PM
We'll finish in the top 6 and make the playoffs.

We may or may not get promoted; I'd have to bet against it. But miracles do happen.

On the plus side:

The fight in the squad is better than we've seen in a while. We're playing more attractive football. AJ is really developing as a player. Watson is coming along. Our midfield looks better than it has in a while. And Mullins is still here.

On the minus side:

The continued frequency of our injuries is worrisome, and players like Kit Symons are getting on and can't seem to play 2 matches without injury. We need a left wing back; we can't depend solely on young Borrowdale. We also now need a goalkeeper.

We need a bit of good fortune to come our way, given how we have indeed been 'unlucky' to some extent in recent matches.

Timbo
25-09-2003, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Justin
It is well known that Jordan has wanted out for a while and I fear the crunch is rapidly approaching. On Tuesday night he described the club "as an albatross around his neck" and claimed he has not enjoyed one game since he became Chairman.

I will qualify all the above with "allegedly".
Crikey this sounds a bit ominous! That said where did you hear the albatross comment and in what context?

gator
25-09-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Justin
It is well known that Jordan has wanted out for a while and I fear the crunch is rapidly approaching. On Tuesday night he described the club "as an albatross around his neck" and claimed he has not enjoyed one game since he became Chairman. Previously he has been reasonably discreet about his willingness to sell but it would appear this is no longer the case. The same problem remains though - who in their right mind would want to buy the club?

I will qualify all the above with "allegedly".
Justin, don't quite understand your post. You quote SJ as having made specific statements but end with "allegedly".
Are these statemants that were made, or something you are speculating.

As for SJ selling, I certainly believe he would IF the right deal came about.

Richard
25-09-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Justin
It is well known that Jordan has wanted out for a while and I fear the crunch is rapidly approaching. On Tuesday night he described the club "as an albatross around his neck" and claimed he has not enjoyed one game since he became Chairman. Previously he has been reasonably discreet about his willingness to sell but it would appear this is no longer the case. The same problem remains though - who in their right mind would want to buy the club?

I will qualify all the above with "allegedly".

What ? He allegedly said all this ?

Prepared to disclose your source ?

Justin
25-09-2003, 02:51 PM
I was not present when he said it and I therefore decided to qualify it. With respect to these particular comments he was heard to say it rather loudly in the Board Room on Tuesday night.

Beanie
25-09-2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Justin
It is well known that Jordan has wanted out for a while .....

Well known by whom?

I have personally heard SJ say that he loves and believes in what he is doing at Palace, that it is a drain on his finances but that he is prepared to carry on.

I am not saying that this means that SJ is here for ever, but it does mean that he makes just as positive statements as he does negative. I think that SJ is a rather emotional guy and will make statements at both extremes, irrespective of who is listening and very much depending on how he's feeling, which may well equate to how the team is doing or, in the aftermath of a game, how the team just performed. I have no doubt that given the right offer he would sell some or all of the club, and that is not a necessarily a bad thing. People have bought clubs in worse positions than Palace are now, so if he really wants a buyer he'll find one.

Ashardasucan
25-09-2003, 03:50 PM
As for Asharduscan, I said before SK got the job I thought he was the wrong man, but I will be very pleased if he proves me wrong, just as I would have been with Francis. At the moment I have an open mind, but I am of the opinion that he is a good motivator but a poor tactician. Revisit on Dec 26th.

Fair enough, but the point I was making was that after only a few games, some knives were drawn. Some points that people might want to remember is that the whole team wanted SK to take over. When was the last time we had a happy team? Probably back before Goldberg days. SK also inherited a team from TF that he wants to change but financial restraints meant that he is having to do it with one hand tied behind his back. IMHO he is doing a good job in a less than ideal situation.

I am not saying that SK is the saviour of Palace, nor am I saying he should fall upon his sword now. All I am saying is give the guy a chance. Think I read somewhere on the BBS that this weekend he will be able to play his first choice starting XI for the first time this season. How can we rate his managerial capability in such a short time when he has had to deal with the unforeseen injuries and suspensions?

If at the end of this year we are still 15th and looking like being involved in a relegation dog fight rather than a battle for playoffs than I will be the first to voice concern.

El Aguila
25-09-2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by James
Francis (who refused ever to admit that Akinbiyi for example was anything other than a disaster).
OK, I've read this three times and I still don't understand it.
James - what do you mean?

James
25-09-2003, 08:10 PM
Good call El Aguila. It's bollocks.

Let's try again:

"Francis (who always refused to admit that Akinbiyi was a disaster).

Are you the ONLY person who spotted this?

Mal Come Ally Son
25-09-2003, 08:43 PM
I spotted it to James and i would of mentioned it but then what is the BBS all about because talking bllcks is what makes it so popular

SKATE
25-09-2003, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Justin
On Tuesday night he described the club "as an albatross around his neck" "allegedly".

Are you sure it wasn't "an albatross on a stick"? "allegedly" ;)

ammiller
26-09-2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by James
Good call El Aguila. It's bollocks.

Let's try again:

"Francis (who always refused to admit that Akinbiyi was a disaster).

Are you the ONLY person who spotted this?

I'm worried now.

Because I fully understood James original post.

Maz
26-09-2003, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by ammiller
I'm worried now.

Because I fully understood James original post. Me too. I guess it needed deconstructing for El Ag ;)

Celestial Empire
26-09-2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Beanie
I just hope that the "everything now" mentality allows this to happen. Most teams who have achieved any degree of long term success have developed this way. Instant fix is nearly always almost as instant decline.

True, but a hard trick to pull off.
With the massive resources gap between the League and Prem, and Prem clubs desperate to hoover up any talented players, the times have changed. Mullins and Morrison have had to wait for a Prem opportunity partly because Palace have had such a poor record recently. (Bruce, Rednapp etc saw more of this generation of Palace players, so are usually the managers being linked with these two).
If we gradually develop an ace young team with Williams, Routledge, Borrowdale, Watson, Berry, Soares etc. etc. and actually start playing well and winning consistently, the Prem gannets will snap them up in a trice - long before they really mature into Prem class players (Dyer, Jenas, Bramble etc). The players who are outstanding at DivI, but doubtful Prem class, (e.g. Tonge, Brown at ShefU, possibly Mullins at Palace), might stick around longer.

The Omen
27-09-2003, 04:05 PM
Kember... :bash:

The Omen
01-10-2003, 11:07 PM
Will someone listen to me now...? :sob:

Kember should not be manager of this club.

DocSavage
01-10-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by The Omen
Will someone listen to me now...? :sob:

Kember should not be manager of this club.

Agree but who else will work for that cretin of an owner?

Eddie McGoldrick's tash
01-10-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by Dodger
Agreed. A top 10 finish and signs of continual improvement in team spirit, style of play, etc.. will be good enough for me.

That's what I thought we got from Francis last season!!! - yet everyone seemed to think he was the worse thing to ever happen to our club.

We were 11th when he was sacked, he was still his first full season in charge, we'd had 2 good cup runs, he improved our defence, he'd introduced a batch of young promising teenagers to the first team, he made us a far harder side to beat , we had to cope with an apalling injury crisis and everyone wanted his blood....

Even if we do finish mid-table this season (and at the moment i fear things could be a lot worse than that) how is that an improvement from the TF regime??

The Omen
01-10-2003, 11:21 PM
Francis gets the last laugh.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash
01-10-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by andy m
Consolidation is one way of looking at it. Taking time to prepare and build a solid basis for sustained future success is my preferred take. Just hope SJ lets it happen.

I agree, but will Jordan (or the fans) ever allow anyone that much time. I honsetly feel that last season Treovor Francis' side had made gradual progress. He had improved the defence, made us harder to beat, made us more consistent, blooded young players etc.
- But he didn't then have the chance to try and push on from that (after only 1 and a half seasons).

Why should Kember - or rather why do we think he would - get the time and chance to build on slow but steady progress when Trevor didn't?

DocSavage
01-10-2003, 11:34 PM
Good I'll buy it for a £10 and do a better job than him and his family with you guys to help. Bring your kit we can't do worse