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View Full Version : Yeah, so we are shite........but your never supposed to give up the love or your club


lordanton
01-10-2003, 07:59 PM
Right. Losing to west ham at this moment. Fans not happy and some of us have questioned why we support this team. But come on people, so what if we are doing badly, its wrong to just belittle your team when they dont succeed. I know its frustrating but we need to support our team through thick and thin (as if we havent already!) and we are a rollercoaster team.....we will bounce back one day...
But we is the spirit, take on the spirit shown in the 9-0 liverpool, and the final day at Stockport...........

Im as proud today as anyday to say im a palace fan...........even if we do pull an accrington stanley......

paulhgc2002
01-10-2003, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by lordanton
Right. Losing to west ham at this moment. Fans not happy and some of us have questioned why we support this team. But come on people, so what if we are doing badly, its wrong to just belittle your team when they dont succeed. I know its frustrating but we need to support our team through thick and thin (as if we havent already!) and we are a rollercoaster team.....we will bounce back one day...
But we is the spirit, take on the spirit shown in the 9-0 liverpool, and the final day at Stockport...........

Im as proud today as anyday to say im a palace fan...........even if we do pull an accrington stanley......

I AGREE 100% BUT KEMBER MUST GO .........

Sir.S.C Remembered
01-10-2003, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by paulhgc2002
I AGREE 100% BUT KEMBER MUST GO .........

The main problem cannot be Kember! We have tried various managers. The whole culture at the club is very wrong including the attitude of the fans in some respects but there is no doubt we are proud palace fans who will always have a great love for the club

Boyandy
01-10-2003, 08:09 PM
The painful difference between then and now is that our old side was a bunch of promising youngsters and lower league cast-offs who managed to gel and always gave 100%.

At the moment we seem to have a lot of old hasbeens that are being played out of position or just aren't up to the job.

Pure and simply there's no hunger in the team - probably 3 or 4 players at the most can hold there heads up so far this season and say they've put the required effort in.

If Shipperley won't lose weight - drop him.

paulhgc2002
01-10-2003, 08:10 PM
http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/teams/CrystalPal.html

Dartford Lad
01-10-2003, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered
The main problem cannot be Kember! We have tried various managers. The whole culture at the club is very wrong including the attitude of the fans in some respects but there is no doubt we are proud palace fans who will always have a great love for the club


I have always said that Kember is part pf the problem, not the solution. I think we need a fresh impetus in the backroom staff.

Shipp Ahoy!
01-10-2003, 08:11 PM
I think there is something very wrong at Palace, to be honest and yes I know he saved us blah blah blah, but it seems to have started no matter who has een in charge no matter what players to be when Jordan came here.

Mat ov CPFC
01-10-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered
The main problem cannot be Kember! We have tried various managers. The whole culture at the club is very wrong including the attitude of the fans in some respects


I am beginning to think that there is definitely some mileage in this view. We seem to be either complete moaners or almost indifferent ( which is worse I dont know ). Perhaps we do need to drop a division to just make us realise that a club cannot live on a 'sleeping giants' ideal.

James
01-10-2003, 08:17 PM
Welcome to the dark side....

limited_edition
01-10-2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered
We have tried various managers. The whole culture at the club is very wrong including the attitude of the fans in some respects but there is no doubt we are proud palace fans who will always have a great love for the club That's crap. The problem is Jordan's appointments. But then again, he should never have sacked our best ever manager. I can see things getting even worse before they get better this season. We'll be in the bottom 3 once again pretty soon. Kember is clueless.

John.K
01-10-2003, 08:36 PM
EAGLES!!

Stigma
01-10-2003, 08:41 PM
SUPER EAGLES !;)

Sir.S.C Remembered
01-10-2003, 08:44 PM
I seriously struggle to believe that any manager in the world could change our fortunes with the current set-up and by set-up I mean more than Jordan

Panman268
01-10-2003, 08:46 PM
:lux: :lux: :lux:

AND I'M FEELIN'.....

limited_edition
01-10-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered
I seriously struggle to believe that any manager in the world could change our fortunes with the current set-up and by set-up I mean more than Jordan Jordan doesn't pick the team. Jordan doesn't set the tactics. Jordan doesn't but 3 defenders on the bench.

Stigma
01-10-2003, 08:48 PM
The solution isnít to sack Kember, our players are simply not good enough. And they havenít been for a couple of years now..
we are a mid-table 1.division team, get used to it...

kyrieagle
01-10-2003, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by lordanton
Right. Losing to west ham at this moment. Fans not happy and some of us have questioned why we support this team. But come on people, so what if we are doing badly, its wrong to just belittle your team when they dont succeed. I know its frustrating but we need to support our team through thick and thin (as if we havent already!) and we are a rollercoaster team.....we will bounce back one day...
But we is the spirit, take on the spirit shown in the 9-0 liverpool, and the final day at Stockport...........

Im as proud today as anyday to say im a palace fan...........even if we do pull an accrington stanley......
red+blue forever.......with or without glory:hmph:

MENTALLY TOUGH
01-10-2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Stigma
The solution isnít to sack Kember, our players are simply not good enough. And they havenít been for a couple of years now..
we are a mid-table 1.division team, get used to it...

They dont mention that in the Ambassadors Club brochure.

limited_edition
01-10-2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Stigma
The solution isnít to sack Kember, our players are simply not good enough. And they havenít been for a couple of years now..
we are a mid-table 1.division team, get used to it... Are you seriously telling me that Millwall and the Gills have better players than us ? No, they have better managers. That's what counts.

What?
01-10-2003, 09:03 PM
I spent the first 13 years of my life not giving a shit about Palace. How hard can it be to go back to that? Not very. Piss off Kember, Palace legend my ass, he might be part of our history and all that crap but our history has led us to be the team we are today and i for one would rather be any team than the one we are today.

Stigma
01-10-2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by limited_edition
Are you seriously telling me that Millwall and the Gills have better players than us ? No, they have better managers. That's what counts.


I think that Millwall have a better team than us, Gillingham well Andy Hessentaler can't possibly be better than Kember, surely not, just look at him
:D

If you look at the Millwall game youíll se that we were really unlucky in that game, what with: we were missing 6 first team regulars, down to 10 men, and to top it of an injury time equaliser. With a win in that game, we would have been right up there with them.. so for that game at least, the manager wasn't to blame..

kolinkins
01-10-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Sir.S.C Remembered
The main problem cannot be Kember! We have tried various managers.

and those managers have had whom as part of the coaching set up? he is the common facor, it is time to wipe the slate clean, and start afresh, without messers kember and bullivant.

Oryol
01-10-2003, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by What?
I spent the first 13 years of my life not giving a shit about Palace. How hard can it be to go back to that? Not very. Piss off Kember, Palace legend my ass, he might be part of our history and all that crap but our history has led us to be the team we are today and i for one would rather be any team than the one we are today.

I'm sorry What?, I know we've had another bad defeat and I'm not trying to be virtuous, but I can't think of any sensible explanation for that comment.

What?
01-10-2003, 10:00 PM
You cant handle the truth hey?

limited_edition
01-10-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Stigma
I think that Millwall have a better team than us, Gillingham well Andy Hessentaler can't possibly be better than Kember, surely not, just look at him
:D

If you look at the Millwall game youíll se that we were really unlucky in that game, what with: we were missing 6 first team regulars, down to 10 men, and to top it of an injury time equaliser. With a win in that game, we would have been right up there with them.. so for that game at least, the manager wasn't to blame.. I wasn't refering to that game in particular, but the fact that they are doing better than us in the league. They even came to West Ham and had a go, instead of sitting back and accepting the defeat when they were a goal down.

Oryol
01-10-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by What?
You cant handle the truth hey?

It's your truth, not mine.

(Ugh.)

selhurst star
01-10-2003, 10:05 PM
Francis out!

rokko
01-10-2003, 10:11 PM
just got back from the game,we just lost it from the moment hughes gave a poor back pass to a hobbling cedric and defoe said ta. to be honest we looked like a team in freefall, with no confidence. freedman was anonomous, shipps subbed in the 2nd.our better players were mullins & cedric. west ham, wanted it more, were a yard quicker, went in for loose balls. we looked ok for 20 mins but as said above after that moment boll*cks.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash
01-10-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Stigma
The solution isnít to sack Kember, our players are simply not good enough. And they havenít been for a couple of years now..
we are a mid-table 1.division team, get used to it...

Personally I'm wouldn't be too unhappy with a mid-table division1 team - which is what we had under Francis who I still think was a decent manager for us - but at them moment we seem to be heading for a relegation battle and that's what the problem is.

David
01-10-2003, 10:14 PM
Just got back from West Ham, and I'm disgusted!

I am usually very positive but we could well be involved in a relegation battle at the end of the season. Things can't continue like this for much longer.

The Palace fans who went were fantastic and made all the noise in the ground.

By the way, Upton Park looks absolutely brilliant! A great stadium.

Del Boy
01-10-2003, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by David
Just got back from West Ham, and I'm disgusted!

I am usually very positive but we could well be involved in a relegation battle at the end of the season. Things can't continue like this for much longer.

The Palace fans who went were fantastic and made all the noise in the ground.

By the way, Upton Park looks absolutely brilliant! A great stadium.

Oh dear!

Fed up with the result and I saw that David had posted. I thought I'd take a look as there's nothing like a spot of David's normal cheery, blind optimism to make you feel a little better.

Unfortunately, he seems as pi55ed off as the rest of us. We're truly doomed!

:sob:

David
01-10-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Del Boy
Oh dear!

Fed up with the result and I saw that David had posted. I thought I'd take a look as there's nothing like a spot of David's normal cheery, blind optimism to make you feel a little better.

Unfortunately, he seems as pi55ed off as the rest of us. We're truly doomed!

:sob:

Cheer up!

We will beat Cardiff.

EagleSE24
01-10-2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by David
Just got back from West Ham, and I'm disgusted!

I am usually very positive but we could well be involved in a relegation battle at the end of the season. Things can't continue like this for much longer.

The Palace fans who went were fantastic and made all the noise in the ground.

By the way, Upton Park looks absolutely brilliant! A great stadium.

Agree totally except that I didn't really like the stadium. Has little character or atmosphere.

We were awful. Absolutely gifted them two goals. Why Mellor wasn't marked in the centre for their third goal I'll never know. Hammers fans were cheering the goal before he had even struck it.

We were totally ouverrun in midfield, our players were constantly caught out of position and the movement was non existant. Shipperly may as well have just sat down in the centre circle for the entire game.

There were more misplaced passes than I have seen in a long long time, two of them leading to goals. It also struck me that our defenders can intercept and head but they can't tackle. West Ham's defenders won nearly every ball each time they were taken on by a Palace player.

Finally, why did Palace not do their bloody homework. It doesn't take a genius to work out that Defoe and Connolly are going to play the ball quickly on the ground and that West Ham play with wingers that should not be allowed an eternity to get a cross in.

I'll probably reread this in the morning and not be as critical. Afterall I wouldn't expect a win at Upton Park unless we were in the form of our lives. I guess it's just a culmination of the last few weeks. SO roll on tomorrow when I can put this in some perspective, realise we will improve and generally lighten up about the whole thing.

CK
01-10-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by rokko
our better players were mullins & cedric.

In that case I must apologise to Mr. Mullins 'cause that's not what I thought I saw. Lager in that pub musta bin stronger than I thought:bash:

Didn't he start the rot by getting Cedric injured, calling him for a ball he couldn't be bothered to run for:veryangry :veryangry

CK
01-10-2003, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by EagleSE24
I'll probably reread this in the morning and not be as critical.

Oh no you won't:sob:

sexyrazor
01-10-2003, 10:41 PM
Don't you realise he can't afford to bring anyone else in??? Any member of staff is replaced with someone that already works there generally, the bare minumum of staff is working at present!

Justy C
01-10-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by rokko
our better players were mullins & cedric.

I have a bit of a problem with Cedric after his pathetic attempt at tackling Defoe for the 1st goal. He bottled it big time against someone almost half his size. I can't help feeling we're riding our luck with Berthelin.

If we had any money then a new goalkeeper would be high on the agenda....as would a left back, centre back, central midfielder, left winger......(I could go on).

CocknyRebel
01-10-2003, 10:51 PM
Bar one or two of our guys tonight we played CRAP....Theres no getting over that.
So something has to be done NOW and not in 4 matches time as someone suggested (sorry can't remember the name )

cpfc_connection
01-10-2003, 10:52 PM
BULLIVANT OUT :veryangry this guy is not a good coach and doesnt have a clue what he is doing...GET HIM OUT :veryangry :bash: :veryangry

I.Flyer
01-10-2003, 10:56 PM
Jordan can't sack Kember/Bullivant. Who would he have for caretaker manager/coach until he found a replacement? :eek:

That was so awful tonight I have vowed not to go to anymore away matches. Even discounting the cost, it is quite a painful effort for me to go and I am not going to put myself through anymore emotional or physical pain for this bunch of no-hopers and I include Dougie in that. :grrr:

I thought Derry was the best of a bad bunch. :(

As others have said, you know how bad it was if David is being negative.

It is possible that I may revise my decision at some future date.

glaziers fan
01-10-2003, 11:10 PM
well I missed the first half because of a fire at London Bridge!:)
And I have to be honest and say I thought we looked ok in the second half. Certainly 3-0 flattered them but there are some serious problems here. Injuries to Powell and Popovic, Smith playing on the left, derry in centre mid is too inconsistent, Shipps is too heavy and there is just ZERO attacking threat from us.

sexyrazor
01-10-2003, 11:12 PM
Why doesn't ēēēēēēē Jordan take over? As much as I hate to geezer at least he has the guts to get stuck in and have a go and not shy away from the press!!!

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
01-10-2003, 11:21 PM
I still think for Palace to lose at home to a crap Bradford side the other week was far worse than going to a mainly unchanged Premiership West Ham away and losing 3 - 0 (England Goalie, parachute payments etc.)

02-10-2003, 02:12 AM
The sad fact is that we lost to both Bradford AND West Ham, and a growing list of others. We fluked it against Torquay and Doncaster in the Carling Cup. We somehow got away with it against Watford. We battled hard for our win up at Burnley, and we displayed the only glimmer of football skills so far under Palace Manager Kember Mark 3, in our game versus Wimbledon at Selhurst. The draws (WBA, Millwall) commendable as they were, could have and should have been wins.
We are in fact pants. I have never, ever seen I.Flyer and David post negative comments after away defeats before. I've been to a few terrible aways myself but found there was usually something to take from the game - e..g. Grimsby when they whallopped us 5-2, but Julian Gray's goal from the free kick was superb. It seems that tonight we have made an embarrassing spectacle of ourselves as a pathetic team, all over-the-hill, injured, has-been, incompetent, lazy, overpaid wanquers, big-time. Frankly I'd sack most of 'em tomorrow and run out the youngsters against Cardiff. Fleming, Symons on the bench, Granville on top dollar who doesn't even kick a football in his garden, Shipperley - running a Harvesters in his free-time, Popovic (finished due to injuries), Powell (finished due to injuries). I'm not convinced about AJ's footballing skills, I am dubious about Rihiilahti's. Mullins is not interested so just sack him. I know it leaves us a bit thin, but if we then got shot of that bloke Kember and his drinking buddies, we might see some changes. Mind you, as SexyRazor says, there's so little money around these days with Jordan as owner, that even the youngsters would probably end up going for the early bath - injuries, bail-out to another team, anything to escape Palace.
I watched the ultra-late Football League stuff the other night and there they all were, former crap players at Palace - scoring brilliant goals for their new clubs - Riccardo Fuller, even Neil Emblem for Chrissakes. What was the comon denominator.........yep, Steve Kember. Go and fulfil your destiny Kember - become a pub landlord.

ozeagle
02-10-2003, 02:53 AM
i suppose most of you could have expected 3 goals from the opposition at the wonderful upton park...however, we're going down, and it's not Kember's fault, it's the clubs.
we have no aspiration. for christ's sake, we even play the club song when we DRAW at home...
nothing to be proud of.
we need to get tough and not accept defeat, even draws.

NZsparky
02-10-2003, 05:05 AM
Still :love: PALACE:love: :love: :love:

Bobby Dandruff
02-10-2003, 05:49 AM
I'll always remember Steve Kember as a player for us, and what a great player he was but when they step up to the top as a manager it is even a more difficult job, the guy is Palace thru and thru, like us he probably couldn't sleep last night after that dreadful performance, I'd like steve to step down and hand it to someone who has got more experience, but at Palace the problem lies at the top with our chairman, that is where the REAL problem with our club lie.

51482
02-10-2003, 06:03 AM
If we lose against Cardiff on Saturday then Kember should do the decent thing and resign. Bullivant should go with him. Lets get someone in who isnt so fond of the old sauce and can do something positive with the club. Its no good saying that we should get behind the team. Been there done it. I dont get paid thousands every week and yet they say they need the support to perform well. Crap. Lazy overpaid Kember drinking buddies who know that their place in a poorly performing side is guaranteed because we have a manager who can keep a suite open at a top London hotel but feels he cannot pay loan wages to a decent player who wants first team football. Lose again on Saturday and the club will lose more non-season ticket holders including me.

Malakite
02-10-2003, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by James
Welcome to the dark side.... :vader:

ozeagle
02-10-2003, 06:15 AM
ady, can you please send that 20 squid.
NOW !!
:)

Malakite
02-10-2003, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by 51482
If we lose against Cardiff on Saturday then Kember should do the decent thing and resign. Bullivant should go with him. Lets get someone in who isnt so fond of the old sauce and can do something positive with the club. Its no good saying that we should get behind the team. Been there done it. I dont get paid thousands every week and yet they say they need the support to perform well. Crap. Lazy overpaid Kember drinking buddies who know that their place in a poorly performing side is guaranteed because we have a manager who can keep a suite open at a top London hotel but feels he cannot pay loan wages to a decent player who wants first team football. Lose again on Saturday and the club will lose more non-season ticket holders including me.

I think everyone is being a bit over the top re: Kember...He ADORES the club just as much as we all do, and has sweat more blood over it too than any of us will ever do, HOWEVER, why is no-one blaming our useless overpaid cant be arsed players for anything?..Derry, Flemming, Smith, (Granville), Symonds, Mullins to some extent, overweight Shipperly, ...they are either playing like they dont care, not playing at all and just picking up cash, OR are simply playing to thier best ability which to be perfectly honest, simply isnt good enough. Geez I mean the Gills (who the hell are THEY?!) beat West Ham, yet we get TURNED OVER..geez, dont just look at the manager, at the end of the day if Kember could still get on the pitch and do us a job, he WOULD do, but the fact of the matter is he cant, so its down to the overpaid useless t@ssers that we have playing for us im afraid.

Stigma
02-10-2003, 06:22 AM
Let my just first say that Iím not a big fan of Steve Kember, I donít think that he is the next messiah..
But let look at the facts, weíve had 8 managers over the last couple of years and or final position in the 1.division have been:
14, 10, 20, 15, 14 = mediocre 1.division team
Letís face it folks, we are not a ĒtopĒ team anymore. Until we get a owner (for example a rich Russian kind of type) in, we wonít be either. Iím not blaming Jordan I think he has done a good job, but he obviously hasnít got enough money.
Bringing in a new manager would mean having to buy heís kind of players, and there arenít any money to do that, or is there Jordan ?
Kember is the best solution for the time being at least..

917L
02-10-2003, 06:34 AM
I will never give up my love of the club itself I dont care what division we're in(well I do care but I'm sure you get my drift) I spent 3 seasons watching us in the third division before so I can do it again if I have to:(

Sadly Kember/Bullivant arent up to it, Millwall have on paper a poorer side than us, and we managed to go there and get a draw minus 6 1st choice players(would have won but for some poor non substitutions) yet they can go to West Ham and come from 1 down to get a point, we however allow Neil Mellor(who until now couldnt hit a barn door) to score twice:veryangry after gifting them a goal.

Malakite
02-10-2003, 06:35 AM
I agree for the time being there is not QUESTION Kember is the man, BUT id say Jordan has spent a HELL of a lot (all be in on totally the WRONG kind of players) but no other 1st division team has spent so much as us in recnt years...Hopkin 1.5M, Rubins 1.2M, BADbuyi 2.5M, Clarke 1.2/5M, see my point?...he has spent a FORTUNE and ive not said all expensive players he has bought in, so I wouldnt say he hasnt spent much, but perhaps, what with the OXO funds from ITV Digital, he simply has decided enough is enough, im spending all this cash, or rather THROWING it down the drain on useless t@ssers who cant kick a ball straight and spend 4hrs at the training ground including lunch break, and then go home (couple of times a week) - see SE25 for proof!

Jordan is still losing bucket loads a WEEK on the club, so who can blame him?..If I was in his shoes I CERTAINLY wouldnt be spening any more cash on the club thats for sure :(

917L
02-10-2003, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by Malakite

Jordan is still losing bucket loads a WEEK on the club, so who can blame him?..If I was in his shoes I CERTAINLY wouldnt be spening any more cash on the club thats for sure :(

Understandable certainly, my only question is for a football and Palace fan, he doesnt seem to have his finger on the pulse as far as appointments are concerned does he? either managerial of player wise.

Who on here would have bought Akinbiyi?
Who on here would have appointed TF?
who on here would have appointed Bruce?(at the time not with hindsight)
Who on here would have appointed Kember?
Who on here would have appointed Smith?

limited_edition
02-10-2003, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by Malakite
I think everyone is being a bit over the top re: Kember...He ADORES the club just as much as we all do, and has sweat more blood over it too than any of us will ever do, HOWEVER, why is no-one blaming our useless overpaid cant be arsed players for anything?..Derry, Flemming, Smith, (Granville), Symonds, Mullins to some extent, overweight Shipperly, ... Geez I mean the Gills (who the hell are THEY?!) beat West Ham, yet we get TURNED OVER.. Fine, but Hessenthaler can motivate his players. Kember can't. The players don't pick a negative formation, with 3 defenders on the bench, Kember does. Kember decides to play players when not fit, eg Shipps. Kember decides to play Smith out of position. Kember decides to bring on a defender at half time when we are 2-0 down, rather than an attacking player. Need I go on ?

Gooders
02-10-2003, 06:52 AM
3 more points in the Prediction League for me.

I'm flying.

Malakite
02-10-2003, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by 917L
Understandable certainly, my only question is for a football and Palace fan, he doesnt seem to have his finger on the pulse as far as appointments are concerned does he? either managerial of player wise.

Who on here would have bought Akinbiyi?
Who on here would have appointed TF?
who on here would have appointed Bruce?(at the time not with hindsight)
Who on here would have appointed Kember?
Who on here would have appointed Smith?

I agree apart from Bruce....I thought he was an EXCELLENT choice.

Malakite
02-10-2003, 07:10 AM
BTW I just thought id say that Sky Sports have just mentioned that this is our WORST run since Mar 01 :(

SIKO
02-10-2003, 07:23 AM
Its getting hard for people to remain positive about the club, especially with what we have been through. Jordan promised us all sorts, not only about how well the club will do, but about the "Palace Experience". We have a squad so thin, there is no other alternative but to play injured players like Dougie last night, and on alot of occasions, our first team players are also having to play reserve games. It would be interesting to know exactly how much influence Jordan had in the purchase of some of our worst buys, Im almost positive Hopkins was his decision.

Do the players like Kember, probably, do they like or respect Jordan, that would be an interesting decision. The issue of bonus payments last season, has that been resolved. What happened that caused Coppell to leave, and Bruce, 2 of our best managers, and I might add the only ones not to have been sacked by the great chairman. His staff at Palace, more often than not seem totally hacked off, and the turnover of staff is horrific. Take a look at our own sexyrazor, she worked there, a dream job for any Palace fan, ask her what its like.

We have a chairman who deceives his own fans, which is perhaps why he stitched up the supporters trust, who has ēēēēed off about every other football league chairmen, alienated the press, and after one lucky business venture, thinks he can run a football club. He surrounds himself with family and yes men, who are too afraid to tell him if he is wrong. He has alienated alot of the business community, because people do not want to do work and have to waste time and money chasing up payment.

This problem is not just about the players, its about the club, and it permeates even the concrete at Selhurst Park. It is not a happy place to go, because you can feel the unease as you walk through the gates. Look at the atmosphere we had during administration, and even at Stockport when we were fighting relegation. Our squad is probably smaller than a majority of conference sides, the facilities are absolute shite, and alot of the senior management appear arrogant and moody.

And before you say it James, I joined the dark side along time ago:vader: :vader: :moo:

Skin Up
02-10-2003, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash
Personally I'm wouldn't be too unhappy with a mid-table division1 team - which is what we had under Francis who I still think was a decent manager for us - but at them moment we seem to be heading for a relegation battle and that's what the problem is.

I think Francis would have taken us towards a relegation battle this season as well to be honest and don't really buy some of the revisionist stuff about him not being that bad, him and Kember are more or less from the same cloth, with very similar ideas about tinkering with lineups, formations ect.

I think the culture is the problem and rather than the two Jordan yes men we've had since Bruce left we should have gone for a young lower division guy with it all to prove like Dowie.

screamingalice
02-10-2003, 07:31 AM
All Steve Coppell wanted was £3m and he said he would g'tee promotion. The team at that time was not the best squad we have ever had, but they had spirit and fight (shades of 68/69 and 88/89) with a couple of shrewd Coppell purchases we would have made the play-offs in Jordan's first season.

The Chairman should have left the football to Coppell (incidently Kember was part of a settled and successfull coaching staff) and concentrated on putting the club right off the field. I am sure given the right man management skills Jordan could have worked with Coppell, but sadly he is not in possession of those skills and Steve felt he could not work with him.

The rest is history, we have had the joke signings of Ruddock who lets face it would never have been signed by any manager with half a brain, but we finished up with him. That signing I understand was down to Jordan. The list has grown down the line until we reached Akinbyee.

If Kember was allowed some money to spend it would be interesting to see who he would buy. Shipperly was a deal done on the back of money owed. Hughes was always a risk after so long out of the game. So Kemebr has to build a promotion winning side out of a group of talanted youngsters who lack experience and who do not have any players of real talent and experience to learn from. Two new signings who are a long way from the fitness levels required. With the exception of Butterfileld and Dougie, the rest are either always injured (always a bad sign) lack the quality required and cant make up the shortfall with spirit. Or just dont give a damn.

The clubs continued problems off the park must have a bad effect on team spirit, the state of the stadium and lack of direction for the club cant inspire players to give that little extra.

It has gone beyond the stage of tinkering, to move forward there has to be radical changes at the club. Money is not the whole answer but it helps. I can understand Jordan not wanting to throw the towel in and sell up (if a buyer(S)) could be found. However I am sure there are plenty Palace fans out there who would be prepared to invest in the club, in exchange for a seat on the board. Jordan will have to swollow some pride and bring in new investors who can help him to run the club better and provide some funds for new players. We need a few shrewd Coppell/Bert Head signings to at the very least stabilise the team and secure a mid table, fringe of playoffs squad that can be built on and in a season or two win promotion with a half decent chance of staying up.

We all know that a Palace in the premiership, playing good fotball etc will attract good crowds and further investment. But we need to get there first and that may mean taking half a step back to take one forward.

stevieboy
02-10-2003, 07:49 AM
lasts nights performance was just not on!!!
on paper we have a good side that should be able to handle an away game against west ham(i dont mean win) but at least put in some sort of decent performance.
i noticed about 10 times we passed the ball short to players real basic things were not happening last night.
we looked like a 3rd division team last night,there is also no fight at the club i would love to see some of the players giving it everything they got but it just didnt happen last night and that annoys me more than anything.
we need to act now and replace both the coach and manager!!
i dont blame jordan one bit if he doesnt want to spend now but it will cost him alot more oin the long run if he does not act now.

i would love to see iain dowie brought in ,someone who would get the players to fight for every last ball!!

AndyStreet
02-10-2003, 08:31 AM
Usually I'm not driven to post long comments on Palace related topics, as there is usually someone who will already have stated what I'm thinking far more eloquently, but this time I feel I should speak my mind. Perhaps I have no right to; after all I was not at Upton Park last night, much as I wanted to be, because of commitments elsewhere. I cannot really add to what has been said by Screaming Alice and SIKO, as they have both articulately highlighted that the problems at CPFC go from the pitch right the way up to Jordan.

Perhaps we as fans don't help though. I know what you're thinking: what the hell is he talking about, I have to pay to watch that dross and then some prat on the BBS tells me that we're at fault. That is not what I mean though. Essentially I mean that as fans we tend to see the only problem at the club as being the manager. Under Smith for the last few games of that season we howled for his dismissal, which eventually came after the Wolves game. Likewise with Francis, many were against his appointment from the start and the cries of "We want Francis Out" reverberated around Selhurst park. And on to Kember. More than anything I simply pity him. I can't even bring myself to get angry with a guy so totally out of his depth, who loves everything about this club and was a fantastic servant as a player to us. Smith was a c**t, but Kember is just not suiuted to being a manager, and personally I feel some of the abuse he gets, particularly about being a drunk or on drink related topics is completely irrelevent and rather unfair. (Judge him on the ineptitude of his management, not on whether or not he likes a beer). So back to my original point which I have not really addressed properly. We seem to see the sacking of the manager as being the solution to all of our problems when the malaise seems to set in. The sacking of Coppell certainly seems to have been the first manifestation of the problems that set in as soon as we came out of administration, but I can't see sacking Kember as being any sort of solution, partly as I doubt we could afford anybody remotely competent, but also because I can't see anybody who want want to work at a club with a demanding, difficult and interfering chairman, fans with expectations of Premiership football, no money to spend and a squad of talented wasters.

So where did it all go wrong? Was it the sacking of Coppell? The appointment of Smith, or Jordan buying us out in the first place? I will always be grateful to Simon Jordan for saving my football club, our football club, from extinction. I can't think of doing anything else every other weekend than going to watch Palace, but at the moment the thought of watching the games leaves me with a sinking feeling resonating from my stomach. Yet this club has been run so incompetently since Patterson et al. left the club that I can't even think of defending Jordan at all in the light of every decision he has made for us. Where have things gone so cataclysmically wrong then? I'm sure certain BBSers know far more than me about the internal organs of the club to tell us where to point the finger, but perhaps the more pertinent question is where to start putting things right. Jordan cannot walk out, and those who simply say Jordan Out are neglecting to remember that we would go straight back into administration, asset stripping, and eventually liquidation.

I only ask one thing of Jordan, and it's not a particularly difficult thing to do. Revive links with the fans. Try to initiate contact with the Supporters Trust, in whatever incarnation it currently is, and listen to the lifeblood of the club, US. Yet I remain pessimistic, simply because it isn't Jordan's style. He seems to have lost interest in his toy, and now seems content to swan around the Grovesnor hotel in his Armani suits with his Aston Martin DB7 parked outside. Perhaps that sounds a little bitter, but with the shit we've had to put up with over the last few years I feel its just about the only semblance of emotion I can show towards somebody who seems to care as little about the club as the twa*s on the pitch last night.

Sorry if that all seems rambling and long winded. In five words: I'm on the dark side :vader:

Clapham Grand
02-10-2003, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by David
Just got back from West Ham, and I'm disgusted!

I am usually very positive but we could well be involved in a relegation battle at the end of the season. Things can't continue like this for much longer.


That's it, Mr. Positive has turned to the dark side :eek: :sob:

51482
02-10-2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by AndyStreet
Kember is just not suiuted to being a manager, and personally I feel some of the abuse he gets, particularly about being a drunk or on drink related topics is completely irrelevent and rather unfair. (Judge him on the ineptitude of his management, not on whether or not he likes a beer).

When his team selection is based on who he is drinking with then it does come into the equation.

I will always be grateful to Simon Jordan for saving my football club, our football club, from extinction.

Thank you Dominic. Simon says the bonus will be in the brown paper envelope as usual this week.

Bartman
02-10-2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Justy C
I have a bit of a problem with Cedric after his pathetic attempt at tackling Defoe for the 1st goal. He bottled it big time against someone almost half his size. I can't help feeling we're riding our luck with Berthelin.


What?!! He had no option but to go for the ball with his feet - it was a passback!! If it wasn't for Cedric last night we would have lost 5 or 6 nil - he made some fantastic saves.

Trilby
02-10-2003, 10:33 AM
I dont want to write too much here because Im saving myself for the FYP Issue 2 editorial, but basically Im more than happy at the moment!
Palace are back to their best, the Palace we all know and love, theres not pressure, no expectations. We are supposed to be a bunch of fans who look at things ironically and can laugh at ourselves and our club.
We all 'rejoiced' when Mr. Palace was installed. And we were more than happy to see Shipperley back but now we've hit a purple patch the moaning comes back. Blimey, we really are the Spurs of Division 1!

stevieboy
02-10-2003, 10:43 AM
some good news coming through coppell is going to reading!!

thank feck he's leaving the albion!!

Flappy Chicken
02-10-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by kolinkins
and those managers have had whom as part of the coaching set up? he is the common facor, it is time to wipe the slate clean, and start afresh, without messers kember and bullivant.

Something I have said all along since Bruce left, a breath of fresh air PLEASE!

AndyStreet
02-10-2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by 51482
Thank you Dominic. Simon says the bonus will be in the brown paper envelope as usual this week.

Grow up.

Richard
02-10-2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by screamingalice
All Steve Coppell wanted was £3m and he said he would g'tee promotion. The team at that time was not the best squad we have ever had, but they had spirit and fight (shades of 68/69 and 88/89) with a couple of shrewd Coppell purchases we would have made the play-offs in Jordan's first season.

I don't think this is true. I think Jordan asked Coppell whether he could guarantee promotion if he was given £3million, and Coppell said no, given the parlous state the squad was in post-Administration. Thus Jordan decided to go his own way, and the rest is history ...

Gooders
02-10-2003, 11:21 AM
A true football fan can never switch his allegiance, arguably.

But a true football fan can certainly question whether following a bunch of no-marks is worth the time, the cost and the effort involved.

I have followed Palace my whole life. They will always be my team (whilst they exist anyway). I'm not interested in going to watch anyone else.

The real problem is that right now, I'm not much interested in going to watch Palace either. :(

eaglejez
02-10-2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Trilby
I dont want to write too much here because Im saving myself for the FYP Issue 2 editorial, but basically Im more than happy at the moment!
Palace are back to their best, the Palace we all know and love, theres not pressure, no expectations. We are supposed to be a bunch of fans who look at things ironically and can laugh at ourselves and our club.
We all 'rejoiced' when Mr. Palace was installed. And we were more than happy to see Shipperley back but now we've hit a purple patch the moaning comes back. Blimey, we really are the Spurs of Division 1!

unfortunately we are not even that good ! In my annual £50 bet with my brother (Spurs fan) on who finishes higher in our respective divisions we are even losing that !!

possible fan
02-10-2003, 11:35 AM
A west ham friend of mine said that the crowd were on Mellors back until he scored and then he was the best thing since sliced bread.They were very impressed by our support.Football fans are fickle if results dont go our way but lets face it Palace fans should be used to it.We are a mid table first division club with very little money but I do think we have some of the best fans in the football league.We were very poor yesterday and I travelled 120 miles round trip to watch garbage.Saying that we have all travelled and seen alot worse .It is only ten games into the season and I think we may be able to turn this round.

mikestock
02-10-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
A true football fan can never switch his allegiance, arguably.

But a true football fan can certainly question whether following a bunch of no-marks is worth the time, the cost and the effort involved.

I have followed Palace my whole life. They will always be my team (whilst they exist anyway). I'm not interested in going to watch anyone else.

The real problem is that right now, I'm not much interested in going to watch Palace either. :(


my thoughts exactly

MAX
02-10-2003, 12:01 PM
A simple solution to the problem!Martin Long (who was at the game last night) comes up with some significant cash (he can afford it) and we immediately employ Mr Ian Dowie.
If only it were so easy.

paulhgc2002
02-10-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Malakite
I!

Jordan is still losing bucket loads a WEEK on the club, so who can blame him?..If I was in his shoes I CERTAINLY wouldnt be spening any more cash on the club thats for sure :(



Who says jordan is losing money ?

CK
02-10-2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
A true football fan can never switch his allegiance, arguably.

But a true football fan can certainly question whether following a bunch of no-marks is worth the time, the cost and the effort involved.

I have followed Palace my whole life. They will always be my team (whilst they exist anyway). I'm not interested in going to watch anyone else.

The real problem is that right now, I'm not much interested in going to watch Palace either. :(

Wish it didn't but it rings true with me. Last night I wondered about my next years season ticket:eek: I have been told that I'll be made reduntant in 12/14 months. That would never have made any difference in the past but after last night I questioned whether I should justify the expense.:veryangry :sob:

KennyB
02-10-2003, 12:19 PM
I did not go to the game last night, but our daughter and her friend did. They texted at half-time. First word?

SHOCKING

And I think that sums it up.

Yes, we have lost before, yes we have been lower than this in the division before, yes we have had some bad results before against teams we think we should beat easily.

But what I cannot accept is that we have lost our will to play, our determination to fight for every ball. That's the tragedy.

If we had 11 youngsters who played their heart out but still lost I would feel we have something to cheer about.

But not this.

Kember. Sort it. It is down to you. Drop Shipps and the other non-producers. Use the youngsters. They are our future, and they are probably more loyal than some of 'experienced hands'.

CK
02-10-2003, 12:58 PM
A less than talented player who tries will always win over supporters and we've had our fair share to judge from. Christ! Phil Barber gave me some larfs God love 'im. Most supporters pay in cash and effort to go whether home or away and it's just so dispiriting when most of the passion is on the Terraces.

I may be being unkind but until late in the second half when we
were 0-3 down ( and it could have been 5 ) most of the players were just going through the motions. They seemed to be bickering with each other from the off and the tactic of the evening seemed to be leave or lay the ball off so somebody else does the running. Unfortunately the passing was so bad that even the shortest pass was rank.

Normally I've cheered up by now but last night was so absolutely dismal in so many ways that if " the club " doesn't somehow at least look like it's trying, on and off the pitch, then we could well be on a long, and bl00dy slippery, slope.

I've felt almost married to this club for a long time but people get divorced after years without having to get married again.

Final rant (probably).

917L
02-10-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Trilby
We all 'rejoiced' when Mr. Palace was installed.

Did we?

51482
02-10-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by 917L
Did we? EXACTLY PEOPLE PISSING IN THEIR PANTS BECAUSE KEMBER WHO RARELY WINS MORE THAN 2 IN A ROW IS APPOINTED BY JORDAN WHO CAN DO NO WRONG COS HE SAVED THE CLUB. WE ARE GOING DOWN UNLESS JORDAN GETS HIS FINGER OUT. IS HE FED UP WITH HIS NEW TOY BUT TO PIG IGNORANT TO SAY HE IS OUT OF HIS DEPTH? ADMIT YOU CANT DO IT ALONE JORDAN AND WE MIGHT HAVE A CLUB HERE IN 2 SEASONS

HarryTheMan
02-10-2003, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by lordanton
Right. Losing to west ham at this moment. Fans not happy and some of us have questioned why we support this team. But come on people, so what if we are doing badly, its wrong to just belittle your team when they dont succeed. I know its frustrating but we need to support our team through thick and thin (as if we havent already!) and we are a rollercoaster team.....we will bounce back one day...
But we is the spirit, take on the spirit shown in the 9-0 liverpool, and the final day at Stockport...........

Im as proud today as anyday to say im a palace fan...........even if we do pull an accrington stanley......

Good man - my thoughts exactly

lordanton
02-10-2003, 08:28 PM
wow, one of my biggest threads......just a shame it could not have been about us getting promoted.