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c_block_lad
05-10-2003, 09:49 AM
Simon Jordan last night launched an astonishing verbal attack on want-away winger Julian Gray.

The Crystal Palace supremo has been forced to take Gary back on a week-to-week contract after moves to Leeds, Charlton and Blackburn collapsed.

Gray, 24, is out of contract at Selhurst Park but, under UEFA regulations, the Eagles can demand a fee if they continue to pay his £4,000-a-week ages.

In an emotional outburst, Jordan rapped: "He doesn't want to be with the club and I don't want him here. "He thinks he's to good for us but, if he is, I don't see too many clubs queuing up to sign him. I've not spoken to Julian and I can't even stand the sight of seeing him after everything I've done for the kid. I've looked after him and his family ever sinced he signed for this club and then treats me with utter contempt. There is certainly no welcoming committee for him here. We have to carry on paying him if we want to get a transfer fee for him".

"We've been backed into the corner, but I'm not going to let him and his agents trample all over my football club. Hopefully someone will buy him because I don't want him here-it's as simple as that."

Jordan, who signed Gray from Arsenal three years ago, added, "I gave him huge encouragement when he first came here and I even persuaded our old manager Steve Bruce-who wanted rid of him-to give him another go".

"He's within his rights to want to play for another club but I can't believe he hasn't afforded me any courtesy. If he thinks we're just going to let him go for nothing, he's in for a shock."

Gray is back in training with the Eagles, but is unlikely to be considered for a first team recall.

The Palace chairman added: "I suppose he is avalaible for selection, but I would be suprised if the manager picked him. He thought he was too good for us and the only reason he's back is because we are his meal ticket for the time being".

"I don't think the fans would be to impressed to see him in a Palace shirt again".

SP Neil Ashton

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Ben H
05-10-2003, 09:51 AM
Well done Simon. Just when we thought you'd learnt to keep your mouth shut you go and say something like this. Still, some more material for Del Boy I guess.:rolleyes:

Selhurst Guy
05-10-2003, 09:53 AM
Why didn't he accept the £250,000 offered by Charlton and just get another left sided player in and get on with our season.

Why can'y we play Granville when he gets back from his groin injury?

John.K
05-10-2003, 09:57 AM
Granville you are joking mate!!

kolinkins
05-10-2003, 09:58 AM
As much as i think Gray was well within his rights to do what he did, i am very proud of the stance our chairman has taken. well done SJ.

John.K
05-10-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Ben H
Well done Simon. Just when we thought you'd learnt to keep your mouth shut you go and say something like this. Still, some more material for Del Boy I guess.:rolleyes:

Agreed :sob: :bash:

Miss Dee
05-10-2003, 09:58 AM
I'm with SJ on this one

Ben H
05-10-2003, 09:59 AM
But when Jules comes back we want him to play well and with commitment. SJ bollocking him as if he's one of his PPS shop assistants is hardly going to achieve this - more like cause further resentment.

c_block_lad
05-10-2003, 10:03 AM
To be fair to SJ, it is his money that has borought Gray and paid his wages for 3 years, I would be a tad pissed off if I had been treated like he has been by Gray and his agents.

Ben H
05-10-2003, 10:04 AM
Yes but it's one think thinking that and another mouthing off in the press.

c_block_lad
05-10-2003, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Ben H
Yes but it's one think thinking that and another mouthing off in the press.

Gray has, so why can't SJ?

Ben H
05-10-2003, 10:07 AM
Er when? I don't ever remember Gray launching into an anti-Palace tirade in the press. The most he's ever said is that he wants to play in the premiership. He served his contract and left at the end of it.

c_block_lad
05-10-2003, 10:09 AM
There is a article on the Julain Gray to no-where thread, I'll dig it out.

John.K
05-10-2003, 10:11 AM
Well it is his club, he can run it how he likes, and can say what he wants about his players!!

c_block_lad
05-10-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
I promised I wouldn't post on this thread any more and I will refrain from repeating yet again what I think of this sorry mess but - did any of you talking about "welcoming him back" and "building bridges" read the news article on the homepage entitled "I may be back"?



Now, just in case anyone still doesn't get the message, I'll summarise that for you again:

He says that he has not been badly advised by his agent.

He clearly does not want to come back to Palace.

He clearly blames Palace totally for the fact that he has been unable to secure a deal anywhere, even though all those other clubs have to do if they don't like our valuation, is let it go to a tribunal.

He is now even talking about getting the PFA involved on his behalf. Can't imagine what it has got to do with them, but there you go.

05-10-2003, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by c_block_lad
trample all over my football club.

:)

the football club? SJ takes matters way too personally, I feel he reckons he's been 'blanked' by Jules and SJ's just got a bit emotional in the press again.

What's new?:)

Ben H
05-10-2003, 10:14 AM
So you haven't answered my question c_block. Where has Gray criticised us? He even said this:

"I haven't got a problem with anyone at the club as far as I am concerned. There are no bad feelings with other players there or anyone who works for Palace."

Gladys Allover
05-10-2003, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Miss Dee
I'm with SJ on this one Totally agree. Julian Gray sums up all that is bad in football at the moment, with greedy agents misadvising young players who do not know any better, and simply trying to make as much money as possible from their naive commodities. Clubs, who pay the wages and provide security, are forced to bend over and take it at the whim of these overpaid flash useless tw@ts - both players and agents. It is about time someone stood up against it, informed people what is actually going on and I for one am pleased that Jordan has done it.

Gray was taking the piss out of Palace and Jordan is trying to win back some credibility for the club and whether you like him or not as a bloke, he's learnt a lot in a short space of time and become a better Chairman.

c_block_lad
05-10-2003, 10:19 AM
Claiming he has been outpriced of a move and that he does not want to go back to Palace.

Ben H
05-10-2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Gladys Allover
Totally agree. Julian Gray sums up all that is bad in football at the moment, with greedy agents misadvising young players who do not know any better, and simply trying to make as much money as possible from their naive commodities. Clubs, who pay the wages and provide security, are forced to bend over and take it at the whim of these overpaid flash useless tw@ts - both players and agents. It is about time someone stood up against it, informed people what is actually going on and I for one am pleased that Jordan has done it.

Gray was taking the piss out of Palace and Jordan is trying to win back some credibility for the club and whether you like him or not as a bloke, he's learnt a lot in a short space of time and become a better Chairman.


Leave it out. Gray could have been an asset to us this season and we should have got behind him. What are the chances of that now?

Basingstoke Eagle
05-10-2003, 10:24 AM
I cant see how anyone can defend Julian,ive never thought he has earned his money when he has been playing.The really annoying thing is that he has ability but is so up his own rear end that he doesnt think he has to work to achieve things.I think Jordan is spot on & sadly Julian will never be the player he thinks he already is.

Gerry from Sussex
05-10-2003, 10:25 AM
The sentiment might be understandable but this kind of outburst doen't fill me with confidence about the stability or level-headedness of our chairman. The end result will be that any prospective buyer now knows for sure - even if they didn't already - that he is desperate to get rid of Gray. Watch out for a £150,000 bid from someone in the near future!

In any case, as I've said before, I really don't understand why he is so hung up about the odd 200k he might lose out on for Gray when he has blown nearly 20 times that amount on folding his deck with Hopkin, Akinbiyi and TF. Getting Gray off the wage bill and allowing SK to replace him is far more important in practical terms to the rest of the season and beyond but he seems to be letting what he sees as a personal slap in the face get in the way of objectivity. Get over it SJ.

Ben H
05-10-2003, 10:28 AM
A friend of mine knows Gray's mother very well and has met Julian a couple of times. He says he's a very quiet naive young lad who's been led astray by his agent. I'm inclined to believe him.

Whilst obviously I'm pissed off about what has happened and how it was handled I see no point in holding grudges. We need to support him while he's here to get the best out of him - the team will only benefit as a result. Jordan shooting his mouth off before putting his brain in gear ain't gonna help.

Ben H
05-10-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Gerry from Sussex
The sentiment might be understandable but this kind of outburst doen't fill me with confidence about the stability or level-headedness of our chairman. The end result will be that any prospective buyer now knows for sure - even if they didn't already - that he is desperate to get rid of Gray. Watch out for a £150,000 bid from someone in the near future!

In any case, as I've said before, I really don't understand why he is so hung up about the odd 200k he might lose out on for Gray when he has blown nearly 20 times that amount on folding his deck with Hopkin, Akinbiyi and TF. Getting Gray off the wage bill and allowing SK to replace him is far more important in practical terms to the rest of the season and beyond but he seems to be letting what he sees as a personal slap in the face get in the way of objectivity. Get over it SJ.

Hear hear!:)

oz_da II
05-10-2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by Gerry from Sussex
Watch out for a £150,000 bid from someone in the near future!


Let's hope so.
Hopefully SJ will "bite their hands off" and put an end to this sorry tale.

Only at The Palace.

Gladys Allover
05-10-2003, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Ben H
Leave it out. Gray could have been an asset to us this season and we should have got behind him. What are the chances of that now? You have a very short memory! Gray had two good games last season, against Liverpool and Leeds in the Cup, ironically both against Premiership opposition and on the box. The rest of the season he was shocking, and was being booed off the pitch. There must have been a very sudden mutation from the player he was last year if he was going to be an asset this season. Rose tinted memory.........

I couldn't get to the game yesterday but from what i have heard / read, Tommy Black could make the position his own if he repeats yesterday's performance. I would listen to your thoughts on that, but having read your assessment of Derry compared to 99% of others, i'll give it a miss.

Martin H
05-10-2003, 10:32 AM
I'm with Jordan on this one. If he simply sits there without comment and Gray comes back as if nothing has happened - what impression or message does that give to the rest of the players?

His comments are clear and forceful - he hasn't said anything out of place - and he has made it clear that if he or the club is messed around by a player then he does not want them at the club. But neither will he be bullied by agents or players into letting players go cheap. He has reinforced selection is the manager's job in his comments.

I would say that (surprisingly maybe) this is well thought through and carefully aimed statement. Could have been lucky I guess but perhaps he has learnt something?

BaldEagle96
05-10-2003, 10:33 AM
If Gray was to rot in the reserves on £4k a week for a year then SJ would be paying him £200K. Add emp bens to this at say 20% and the club will be paying £280K for someone who it would appear has no chance of making a first team comeback. In my books we should have taken the £250K Charlton allegedly offered for him, and closed this saga. I think SJ is going to dig his heels in on this one and let Gray rot even if he ends up losing money on him!!

Ben H
05-10-2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by Gladys Allover
You have a very short memory! Gray had two good games last season, against Liverpool and Leeds in the Cup, ironically both against Premiership opposition and on the box. The rest of the season he was shocking, and was being booed off the pitch. There must have been a very sudden mutation from the player he was last year if he was going to be an asset this season. Rose tinted memory.........

I couldn't get to the game yesterday but from what i have heard / read, Tommy Black could make the position his own if he repeats yesterday's performance. I would listen to your thoughts on that, but having read your assessment of Derry compared to 99% of others, i'll give it a miss.

Only 2 good games? Now there's something wrong with your memory if that's what you think.

Most of the team were shocking under Francis - Gray wasn't that much worse than the rest.

What does this outburst from SJ achieve? Nothing. Maybe it's just a poor attempt to win around the fans that seem to be losing patience with him more and more by the day.

Elephant with mouse gyp
05-10-2003, 10:35 AM
It's funny the way The Agent has become the catch-all Lucifer of modern football. In this case Gray's supposedly conspiratorial, evil agent has done himself out of money with there being no move. What a nasty piece of work, eh?

To me it looks like Jordan is using the Gray issue as a convenient punchbag for his own increasing financial frustration.

John.K
05-10-2003, 10:37 AM
Gray is sadly still the best natural left winger at this club!! :)

Skin Up
05-10-2003, 10:38 AM
It's a counterproductive statment as what is the point of paying his wages when Jordan has no intention of playing him.

He won't get a big offer now as anyone interested in Gray now knows how desperate Jordan is to get rid of him.

Basingstoke Eagle
05-10-2003, 10:38 AM
Ben,for goodness sake,if this player was anyone who wasnt a friend of your friend & you knew that he didnt want to play for us would you really be on here supporting him.Julian thinks he is too good to play for us but no clubs obviously feel the same or they would have gone to a tribunial to sort a fee out for him.SK will never play him because it would be bad for the other players to see a bloke making the first team who couldnt give a monkeys for the club.Julian has done this to himself & just because he now says he has been badly advised doesnt change a thing,he has still been getting paid by a club he doesnt want to be at.

Ben H
05-10-2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Basingstoke Eagle
Ben,for goodness sake,if this player was anyone who wasnt a friend of your friend & you knew that he didnt want to play for us would you really be on here supporting him.Julian thinks he is too good to play for us but no clubs obviously feel the same or they would have gone to a tribunial to sort a fee out for him.SK will never play him because it would be bad for the other players to see a bloke making the first team who couldnt give a monkeys for the club.Julian has done this to himself & just because he now says he has been badly advised doesnt change a thing,he has still been getting paid by a club he doesnt want to be at.

Read what I said earlier. It's one thing thinking that and another thing saying it.

If Jordan doesn't want him at the club, why take him back on a contract (we haven't been paying him up till now)? We can only presume that the club DOES want him and intends playing him; otherwise it would be cutting its losses and letting him go for nothing.

The more I read Jordan's statement the more I cringe. What an utterly stupid thing to say.:veryangry

henryhallandhisbasque
05-10-2003, 10:51 AM
Very well said, Walter. I don't normally agree with your utterances, but this time you are spot on.

Gray can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. There was hardly a queue for his services, was there?

He never made it at Arsenal and got his chance of first team football with Palace. But for coming here, he'd probably still be somebody Wenger ignored in the corridor at Lowbury.

Too many of these footballers get it too easy when they want away, I'm glad Walter has spared him a piece of his mind. I just hope he's retained enough of it to continue to function.

PoolKing
05-10-2003, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by John.K
Gray is sadly still the best natural left winger at this club!! :)

That's only true because he is the only naturally left winger:D

I always thought that he was nowhere near as good as he seems to think he is. For a left winger his crossing is appaling and most games I saw he looked very average. As another user said, he did only have 2 good games last season.

Considering no clubs are racing to sign him maybe he should consider how good he really is.

Adrian
05-10-2003, 10:59 AM
Lots of obvious good points made here - except that, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, SJ has got to mature rather more if he thinks saying this publicly is a good thing.

Whatever their faults, most chairmen simply don't say things like this - of course they might think them, in private, but to go on record with what apparently he has said, shows SJ's rather unpleasant bully-boy side.

Regardless of what has been said, Julian Gray is a good player - of that, there's no question. If he's got too big for his boots, then I'm afraid I haven't seen it (perhaps I've not seen enough games). He's always conducted himself well on the field, is not known as an unpleasant lad and, frankly, I think this whole thing has been unnecessarily escalated to a point where Gray probably feels rather uncomfortable.

Of course he's going to want to play in the Premiership - and if he believes he's good enough to do so, then he has every right to turn down a contract if he so wishes. But he then is the loser and I don't hear him moaning about his decision: all he's said in that regard is that he's desperate to be playing football again.

No, I'm sorry: despite the fact that in many ways, I think SJ is the best thing that's happened to our club for a long time, there's a side of his character that I find thoroughly unpleasant.

Kember should play Gray if he thinks it's appropriate - regardless of what SJ thinks.

Ruskin Old Boy
05-10-2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by BaldEagle96
If Gray was to rot in the reserves on £4k a week for a year then SJ would be paying him £200K. Add emp bens to this at say 20% and the club will be paying £280K for someone who it would appear has no chance of making a first team comeback. In my books we should have taken the £250K Charlton allegedly offered for him, and closed this saga. I think SJ is going to dig his heels in on this one and let Gray rot even if he ends up losing money on him!!

Sadly, think you're right BE.

I doubt if anyone is brave enough to tell SJ that sometimes its best to keep your mouth shut. Why he didn't take the £250k on the table from Charlton is beyond me; cut off his nose to spite his face? Seems that way:rolleyes:

Mal Come Ally Son
05-10-2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Ben H
We need to support him while he's here to get the best out of him - the team will only benefit as a result.

For one fleeting second I thought you meant that we should support SJ - then I realised that realised it's just another mollycoddling Gray post

Bartman
05-10-2003, 11:11 AM
Good for SJ. He can say what he bloody well likes as far as I'm concerned, and he's got every right to say this about Gray.

Ruskin Old Boy
05-10-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Bartman
he's got every right to say this about Gray.

Sure he has ... but he never thinks about the consequences of what he says.

Mal Come Ally Son
05-10-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Adrian

Whatever their faults, most chairmen simply don't say things like this - of course they might think them, in private, but to go on record with what apparently he has said, shows SJ's rather unpleasant bully-boy side.

Regardless of what has been said, Julian Gray is a good player - of that, there's no question.

You're right. Few chairmen say this sort of thing. They simply roll over and get ••••ed by greedy, overpaid, unmotivated players. And I'm very pleased that, starting with his comments about 'big-time charlies' last spring, Jordan has made it clear the Palace is not going to be ••••ed by these people.

You say that "Regardless of what has been said, Julian Gray is a good player - of that, there's no question" as if it were a scientifically proven fact which only a lunatic would question. But actually it is a matter of opinion. Your opinion is that he is "a good player - of that, there's no question". My opinion is that he is at best an average nationwide player. He and his agent weren't able to find a Premiership club manager who had the opinion that Gray was worth more than £250k

It is widely reported that that was the highest bid received for him - so I guess that's his market value. That suggests that the market's opinion is more in line with mine than with yours.

Bartman
05-10-2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by Ruskin Old Boy
Sure he has ... but he never thinks about the consequences of what he says.

I think he's in the position where he doesn't have to think about the consequences. It may be an arrogant viewpoint but that's probably how he thinks.

rhiannapaul
05-10-2003, 11:32 AM
gray is worth more than £250,000 easy but the climate in football has changed he would have gone for couple million a few seasons ago. i blame the agents ... Gray is a typical niave London 'gansta' give him a bit of dosh a few hangers on bigging him up... pretty girls.. he thinks he's a superstar he is a poorly educated easily led tw*t who's been mugged by his shark of an agent.. a waste of raw football talent he had the potential to be a quality player. and at the moment we are not a big club no money poor whingeing crowds who get on players backs if they have 2 minute bad period...

nookiebear
05-10-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by c_block_lad

Jordan, who signed Gray from Arsenal three years ago, added, "I gave him huge encouragement when he first came here and I even persuaded our old manager Steve Bruce-who wanted rid of him-to give him another go".


Is this true?

RtS
05-10-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Bartman
I think he's in the position where he doesn't have to think about the consequences. It may be an arrogant viewpoint but that's probably how he thinks.

Of course he should think about the consequences. His outpourings over the seasons coupled with his legendary man management and selection skills have put us precisely where we are today. Owner? WTF does he own? The ground? NO. The players? NO The fans NO? The problem? Well yes actually.His money is keeping us alive and for that I tolerate him,otherwise I wish he would keep his opinions about players to himself.That policy seems to work at successful clubs.

Brett
05-10-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by RtS
Of course he should think about the consequences. His outpourings over the seasons coupled with his legendary man management and selection skills have put us precisely where we are today. Owner? WTF does he own? The ground? NO. The players? NO The fans NO? The problem? Well yes actually.His money is keeping us alive and for that I tolerate him,otherwise I wish he would keep his opinions about players to himself.That policy seems to work at successful clubs.

What he said. And Ruskie. And Baldie.

nookiebear
05-10-2003, 11:59 AM
I think letting Gray rot in the reserves, which I think he should do, would have put the message across in a much better way than ranting in the newspapers about it

Mal Come Ally Son
05-10-2003, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by RtS
Of course he should think about the consequences. His outpourings over the seasons coupled with his legendary man management and selection skills have put us precisely where we are today.

Total bollox. Where we are today is almost precisely where we were when SJ walked in the door. Bottom half of the table, just out of reach of the relegation spots.

[/QUOTE Owner? WTF does he own? The ground? NO. The players? NO The fans NO? The problem? Well yes actually.[/QUOTE]
Well, I believe that he owns the shares in the club, and in turn the club temporarily owns the players registrations. The club also owns the goodwill. Now - once you've had your belly laugh I'll tell you what the goodwill is. It is that something that you can't touch or feel or count, but which makes 15,000 pay £20 every fortnight to watch Palace regardless of how bad the team is.

[/His money is keeping us alive and for that I tolerate him,otherwise I wish he would keep his opinions about players to himself. [/QUOTE]

Keep his opinions about players to himself?? Like you do? :D

Gooders
05-10-2003, 12:10 PM
Can we just quell another myth here please?

It has never been confirmed that we received a bid of £250,000 and certainly not from Chortleton.

The only quotes from Crappishly that I have seen were talking about "Crystal Palace having a view of his value that was poles apart from what he was prepared to offer" or words to that effect.

If we received an official offer, I would guess that it was not more than £100,000.

Since Julian's contract expired we have paid him close to £50,000. By Christmas that will have risen to £100,000.

The cards are stacked in favour of the player and his agent. At some point SJ will have to cave in and let him go for nothing since no one is prepared to even go to a tribunal over the fella.

It now boils down to how long SJ is prepared to keep putting his hand in his pocket and keeping the boy out of football out of sheer spite.

That's what Bosman has done for the game of football.

And frankly, it's ••••••• ridiculous.

Elephant with mouse gyp
05-10-2003, 12:17 PM
So we want our club to be run according to the principles of a children's playground do we? He used to be my best friend but now he's not so I'm not going to let him play with my toys, nah, nah, nah. Mummy, why will no-one play with me anymore?

LLCOOLSTEVE
05-10-2003, 12:23 PM
I did mention that SJ wouldnt let him play for the club again.

Les Butler
05-10-2003, 12:29 PM
I guess all the other Palace players know now what to expect from SJ if they ever have a dispute with him.....Must give them a nice friendly warm feeling about the place.

Brett
05-10-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Les Butler
I guess all the other Palace players know now what to expect from SJ if they ever have a dispute with him.....Must give them a nice friendly warm feeling about the place.

Not just current players but future players too.

Lets pray to God (or Allah, whatever your persuasion) that we aren't hit by a crippling injured list. Kember may be forced to pick Gray at some stage.

Hardly likely to perform, is he?

Neil the Eagle
05-10-2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Les Butler
I guess all the other Palace players know now what to expect from SJ if they ever have a dispute with him.....Must give them a nice friendly warm feeling about the place.

Good God, as if they hadn't figured it out by now:

Coppell
Fullarton
Linighan
Pollock
Ruddock
Austin
Akinbiyi

I'm sure I've missed some...

Kember's Hooter
05-10-2003, 12:44 PM
:S: Let's face it whatever Simon Jordan does is wrong in some Palace fans eyes it gets on my wick. Earlier this season he was getting slated for not writing in the matchday programme and people were questioning his commitment to the club so saying nothing was wrong, but when he does say what he feels about a prima donna like Julian Gray who has taken this club for a ride in my opinion you question the man's sanity and that's wrong also! As i've always said about Simon Jordan he isn't perfect by any stretch and he has made mistakes in the transfer market but you've got to remember he is new to this game and he will inevitably get things wrong but would any of us have put over £30m of our own dough into CPFC even if we had it? I certainly wouldn't have

Santos-er
05-10-2003, 02:12 PM
I'm with SJ on this one, but he should keep his mouth shut and worry about the piss poor service the paying public get (in the stands rather than on the pitch - we're well used to that) and resulting drop in attendances.

If JG is that much of a simpleton that he has been buttraped by his greedy agent, I have sympathy for him - but that's what happens when you pay a brainless kid £4k a week. One thing you can bet your life on is that SJ will not give an inch on this, surely after the judas Bruce thing anybody (except JG) could see it coming a mile off! And if he can write off the £2m spent on Akinbiyi you can't see him being that worried about paying £4k a week just to prevent Julian from going anywhere.

Lords Eagle
05-10-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by rhiannapaul
gray is worth more than £250,000 easy

Patently he isn't as nobody is prepared to pay more than that for him. The old adage, something is only worth what another is prepared to pay for it. He does have raw talent, but you need more than that to be a footballer.

pedro
05-10-2003, 02:31 PM
Superb, well done SJ, Gray is a complete to$$er who deserves everything he gets. :veryangry

Nobby
05-10-2003, 03:04 PM
I think SJ is a stupid, arrogant, loudmouthed prick.

Okay, now I've show my "contempt" for him, can I please get 4,000 quid a week?

Granada allover
05-10-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Gerry from Sussex
The sentiment might be understandable but this kind of outburst doen't fill me with confidence about the stability or level-headedness of our chairman. The end result will be that any prospective buyer now knows for sure - even if they didn't already - that he is desperate to get rid of Gray. Watch out for a £150,000 bid from someone in the near future!

Getting Gray off the wage bill and allowing SK to replace him is far more important in practical terms to the rest of the season and beyond but he seems to be letting what he sees as a personal slap in the face get in the way of objectivity. Get over it SJ.

Totally agree. I've been a public relations consultant most of my working life and Simon Jordan would be a nightmare as a client.

I admire his pluck and determination to take Palace back into the Premiership. It's what we all want. But he really needs people tough enough around him to tell him to shut it. Coppell was tough enough - and paid the price.

Jordan has one simple problem: he wants to win every battle. Try that, and you always (and I mean always) end up losing the war.

Sires
05-10-2003, 03:14 PM
Nice one, Julian Gary is a piece of shit.

Justin
05-10-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Can we just quell another myth here please?

It has never been confirmed that we received a bid of £250,000 and certainly not from Chortleton.

The only quotes from Crappishly that I have seen were talking about "Crystal Palace having a view of his value that was poles apart from what he was prepared to offer" or words to that effect.

If we received an official offer, I would guess that it was not more than £100,000.

Since Julian's contract expired we have paid him close to £50,000. By Christmas that will have risen to £100,000.

The cards are stacked in favour of the player and his agent. At some point SJ will have to cave in and let him go for nothing since no one is prepared to even go to a tribunal over the fella.

It now boils down to how long SJ is prepared to keep putting his hand in his pocket and keeping the boy out of football out of sheer spite.

That's what Bosman has done for the game of football.

And frankly, it's ••••••• ridiculous.

Not sure what Bosman has to do with this although my memory could be playing tricks with me. Pre Bosman at the end of a contract if a player's contract wasn't renewed he could leave on a free. Post Bosman if he is aged over 23 or 24 then he can leave on a free anyway. This doesn't apply to Gray because we are entitled to a fee, hence the impasse.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by Ben H
A friend of mine knows Gray's mother very well and has met Julian a couple of times. He says he's a very quiet naive young lad who's been led astray by his agent. I'm inclined to believe him.

Whilst obviously I'm pissed off about what has happened and how it was handled I see no point in holding grudges. We need to support him while he's here to get the best out of him - the team will only benefit as a result. Jordan shooting his mouth off before putting his brain in gear ain't gonna help.

why doesn't he come out and apologise then? Admit he has been led astray by his agent and that he obviously needs to develop a bit further as a player with Palace before being good enough for the Premiership. He should admit that if he was good enough already, someone would have taken CPFC to a tribunal.

PalaceFan in Alabama
05-10-2003, 03:41 PM
Let the good for nothing go. So much ability and no brain, he is being lead about by the nose by his agent and they both deserve to get nothing out of this.
Ben H if he is half as good a player as he believes he is, tell me why so many clubs taken him on and then given him the boot? We have enough dead weight at the club without having him taking up space.
As for SJ, why are so many of you so surprised by what comes out of the various openings he has.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Neil the Eagle
Good God, as if they hadn't figured it out by now:

Coppell
Fullarton
Linighan
Pollock
Ruddock
Austin
Akinbiyi

I'm sure I've missed some...

But in my opinion, minus possibly Coppell, he has been right in every decision to get rid of these players. I admire SJ for taking a tough stance and not letting us get walked all over. SJ is a young chairman and he is going to mature into a mighty fine one. He is learning and improving all the time. We need stability from him and I'm sure he will provide it. His Gray outburst is a good thing. Yet again, it shows people like Gray who are thinking of f***ing us over that it wont be tolerated. The treatment of Gray when Bruce came in shows that SJ will be supportive of his players and give them a chance. But he won't tolerate turncoats and he will be prepared to lose his own money to let them suffer. SJ is teaching JG a lesson. Good for him.

nicky
05-10-2003, 03:48 PM
SJ may be completely justified in being pissed off at Gray, but its dumb to express it in public - the more desperate we appear to get rid of Gray, the less other clubs will offer.


Oh , and to clarify:

In England, pre-Bosman, a player got a free transfer at the end of his contract IF he was not offered a better deal.

If he was offered a better contract but turned it down, the club could demand a transfer fee. If two clubs couldnt agree a transfer fee on an out of contract player, they could agree to go to the transfer tribunal who would decide the price.

In Belgium things were different. Clubs didnt have to offer a better contract to keep the players registration. Mr. Bosman was out of contract, was offered a worse contract - and then when another club expressed an interest in him, his club demanded a ridiculous transfer fee. He was genuinely screwed, I dont blame him for suing.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Nobby
I think SJ is a stupid, arrogant, loudmouthed prick.

Okay, now I've show my "contempt" for him, can I please get 4,000 quid a week?

This 4k a week that Gray gets whilst he rots in the Palace reserves is scant consolation for a career that could be ruined. Gray's lack of loyalty is now well known and he is going to struggle to reach a Premiership club, even on a free, after he has been out of the game for a year. Look at Hughesie? A player who has proved himself in the Premiership, and has showed no lack of loyalty is with a first division club in the bottom half of the table. Hughes is a 'hungry' player with desire to succeed even though he is now 32. Gray is a young player who lacks motivation. You have to remember it took Gray 2 years to command a regular first-team slot because he lacked motivation. You would have thought that after leaving Arsenal he would be chomping at the bit but his lack of effort in the early stages is well documented. I wouldn't be surprised if he never makes it into the Premiership now, and he might even struggle to find a decent first division club.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
05-10-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Nobby
I think SJ is a stupid, arrogant, loudmouthed prick.

Okay, now I've show my "contempt" for him, can I please get 4,000 quid a week? You couldn't take the cut in wages, Nobby ;)

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
05-10-2003, 04:00 PM
Gray only played for the cameras, he is one of those stupid players who thinks he has done it all and the world owes him a living. Hopefully now he will eat a lot of humble pie, work hard, and pisss off to another club where I hope, for his sake, he does well. But he, at best, will only be able to prove what he could have done at Palace if he applied himself and at worst will prove what an arrogant pile of doggy do-do's he is.

Where's his girlfriend who always used to post on here (can't remember her BBS name) - what does she make of all this? Are we being unfair? Is Jordan wrong? Has the poor love been hard done by in not accepting an improved contract and failing to make his mark in any of the clubs that he has been trawled around for the last few months?

Shhhh.... listen....?

Elephant with mouse gyp
05-10-2003, 04:34 PM
I've asked this before - maybe someone's answered it and I didn't see it - but how do so many people know that Gray is this arrogant pile of whatever animal's doo-dah you like? I don't think it's got anything to do with the transfer saga, nor the apparent dip in form at the end of Francis's reign, because lots of people were coming up with the 'arrogant' thing well before that.

I suppose it could have been because, when he first arrived, he said something about seeing Palace as a springboard. Big bloody deal. He was, what, 20, then, had just come from the country's second biggest club and was only saying out loud what every player thinks. You think if seeming nice and Mr Loyal types like, say, Butterfield or whoever had the chance to move up, they'd say, 'No thanks, Arsene, I'm staying with the red and blue.'? If we're going to send into moral exile anyone who doesn't say exactly what we want in every sodding interview, we're going to end up as a bunch of sour losers. Hey, but at least we'll be able to pat ourselves on the back and say we taught all these uppity players a lesson.

By the way, I don't for a moment buy the theory that Gray is stupid - he certainly played with more brains than most of our lot.

AndyStreet
05-10-2003, 04:45 PM
From Julian Gray's Icons Website:


Back at Palace

The latest news is that I've just signed a new week-to week contract with Crystal Palace. The club were unable to agree a deal with Blackburn where I've been training for the past couple of weeks which is a shame but I'm still happy to be back at Palace and hope that I'll be allowed to play sooner rather than later.

It's a difficult situation that I'm in because being under 24 Palace hold my registration and this has been a stumbling block during negotiations with firstly Leeds, then Charlton and now Blackburn. However, I can understand Palace's situation

It has been a frustrating couple of months but being back at Crystal Palace is not a problem for me. I get on well with everyone at Selhurst Park and I hope I can come in and help the lads put a run together. Palace have been struggling this season and have already lost five games. We're looking dangerously close to the bottom of the table and I'd love the chance to do my bit for the cause.

I don't see that there's anything wrong with trying to better myself and test myself in the Premiership. I started my career at a Premiership club and I played well against Premiership sides Liverpool and Leeds in the FA Cup last season. I believe I can do well at that level I'd just love the chance to show what I can do on the big stage.

But right now though the only thing on my mind is Palace's game on Saturday against Cardiff. I'll be training hard this week in case I'm called upon to play and if not then, when the time does comes to get back onto the pitch I'll be ready.

biggus mickus
05-10-2003, 04:55 PM
Its not just the money SJ wants for him, how about the wages he wants at a new club?
If, as it looks like, he wants away so badly, maybe he should be looking at his wage demands. A new club paying 500'000 would be happier if they could claw some back on the wages. Maybe?

Stupid me, a player cutting his wages. Gosh, I am such a fool.:angel:

Clapham Grand
05-10-2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Ben H
But when Jules comes back we want him to play well and with commitment.

Missing the point here. Gray was never going to play for Palace again

daz_eagle
05-10-2003, 05:14 PM
Simon Jordan is right on this. He pays the wages, he has a right to vent his (justified) opinions, especially on that cheeky git Gray.

RtS
05-10-2003, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
Total bollox. Where we are today is almost precisely where we were when SJ walked in the door. Bottom half of the table, just out of reach of the relegation spots.
Not very good at irony I see.

[/QUOTE Owner? WTF does he own? The ground? NO. The players? NO The fans NO? The problem? Well yes actually.
Well, I believe that he owns the shares in the club, and in turn the club temporarily owns the players registrations. The club also owns the goodwill. Now - once you've had your belly laugh I'll tell you what the goodwill is. It is that something that you can't touch or feel or count, but which makes 15,000 pay £20 every fortnight to watch Palace regardless of how bad the team is.
.....and contribute to the continuing overall debt that he owns.

[/His money is keeping us alive and for that I tolerate him,otherwise I wish he would keep his opinions about players to himself. [/QUOTE]

Keep his opinions about players to himself?? Like you do?
:D [/B][/QUOTE]
The point is, it doesn't matter if I shout my mouth off.I'm not the chairman.

Oryol
05-10-2003, 05:27 PM
I also think Jordan's let his ego get the better of him here (again). If we take what he says at face value, I can understand his frustration with Gray. However, he could have said his piece to the player, or even the player in the presence of the manager and the rest of the squad. It's hard to see what he expects to achieve by shouting about it in the press.

kolinkins
05-10-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp
I suppose it could have been because, when he first arrived, he said something about seeing Palace as a springboard.

urban myth - it was infact black that said that in an interview with sky at the training ground.

Latvian Eagle
05-10-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Ben H
Leave it out. Gray could have been an asset to us this season and we should have got behind him. What are the chances of that now?

Nah you leave it out. Julian Gray an asset, don't make me laugh. He is sh@t. Sorry but he is one of the worst players I have seen at Palace. He'd be alright if he claimed he was an attacking midfielder, but his main position was winger. And the boy couldn't cross to save his life. About 1/10 crosses were dangerous all season. Wow he played well against Liverpool and Leeds, well Liverpool were going through a rough patch, and Leeds hardly set the Premiership alight did they?

For once I find myself agreeing with C_Black_Lad. Don't let him back into our club. :veryangry

James
05-10-2003, 07:29 PM
Whatever one may think of Gray, surely no sane person can believe that Jordan has acted sensibly. Jordan’s comments are as stupid as we have come to expect from the man.

Jordan wants (make that ‘needs’) a transfer fee for Gray. Clearly Jordan thinks that Gray is worth a fee. Sadly, no other Club feels able to match Jordan’s valuation – so what does he do?

Take whatever he can get? No.

Try and boost his transfer value by keeping him match fit and playing him? No.

Try to persuade other clubs that the guy is a genuine type who would be worth a bit of cash? No.

I don’t understand what is going on in Jordan’s mind. Is he simply determined to keep Gray on the payroll, but off the field out of spite?

If Gray did play, then he would have every incentive to play out of his skin. He knows now (even if he didn’t before) that he is not going to be snapped up by a leading Premiership Club. If he wants a decent move, he will have to show other just how well he can play – and that could benefit us in more than one way. He may well help us win a few more games – and he might then be able to command a fee closer to that which Jordan might feel inclined to accept.

Having read Gray’s measured, gracious and sensible piece from his Website (above) and compared it to the immature, spiteful rant from our Chairman it seems clear to me that one of these two individuals needs to grow up fast … and it isn’t the player who is too young to go on a Bosman.

Freddy Kurz
05-10-2003, 08:02 PM
So the Chairman has decided to pay 4k a week
to Gray for the dubious privilege of publicly bad
-mouthing a player who doesn't want to stay
anyway but has been prevented from getting
another club because the same Chairman has
put too great a price his head! How can
anybody on here have the temerity to attack
Gray for big-headedness when he would have
been perfectly willing to have gone anywhere
for half the price Jordan has asked? Jordan's
inflated valuation has simply deprived Kember
of much-needed funds to strengthen the first
team squad! As someone else has pointed
out if the Chairman holds out for a year, 200k
more will have been thrown down the drain.
You know it makes sense!

LLCOOLSTEVE
05-10-2003, 08:04 PM
The last 2 posts are the 2 most sensible replys on the thread, and the sad truth.

Mal Come Ally Son
05-10-2003, 08:13 PM
James, James. You really are so keen to turn everything into an excuse for an anti-Jordan rant.

Granada allover
05-10-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by James
Having read Gray’s measured, gracious and sensible piece from his Website (above) and compared it to the immature, spiteful rant from our Chairman it seems clear to me that one of these two individuals needs to grow up fast … and it isn’t the player who is too young to go on a Bosman.

Spot on.

Is there really nobody at the club capable of preventing these ludicrous, damaging situations arising?

James, you have alluded at other times to a lack of accountability in the club - and the way Jordan simply doesn't listen to older, wiser heads. I'm trying not to be melodramatic but cannot help thinking this latest outburst shows the club dicing again with self-destruction.

:(

AndyStreet
05-10-2003, 08:23 PM
Can you really blame James when Jordan seems to be happy to act to the detriment of the club, the player and himself just to feed his own ego?

75points
05-10-2003, 08:25 PM
spot on James and Freddy. SJ has just dramatically increased the probability of no offers/or drastically reduced ones being received for Gray .
In the meantime with our one in one out policy - we will fail to strenghten our squad , and more likely than not will sit towards the rear of the table - losing valuable income from the casual supporter.
SJ's ego strikes again .
No problem with you SJ if you are prepared to fund the aquisition of new players whilst keeping Gray in the reserves but utlimately its all of the club that are losing by this action - and ultimately Gray wins. SJ you've made your point now move on please. We all know you are the boss.

kolinkins
05-10-2003, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by James
Whatever one may think of Gray, surely no sane person can believe that Jordan has acted sensibly. Jordan’s comments are as stupid as we have come to expect from the man.

Jordan wants (make that ‘needs’) a transfer fee for Gray. Clearly Jordan thinks that Gray is worth a fee. Sadly, no other Club feels able to match Jordan’s valuation – so what does he do?

Take whatever he can get? No.

Try and boost his transfer value by keeping him match fit and playing him? No.

Try to persuade other clubs that the guy is a genuine type who would be worth a bit of cash? No.

I don’t understand what is going on in Jordan’s mind. Is he simply determined to keep Gray on the payroll, but off the field out of spite?

If Gray did play, then he would have every incentive to play out of his skin. He knows now (even if he didn’t before) that he is not going to be snapped up by a leading Premiership Club. If he wants a decent move, he will have to show other just how well he can play – and that could benefit us in more than one way. He may well help us win a few more games – and he might then be able to command a fee closer to that which Jordan might feel inclined to accept.

Having read Gray’s measured, gracious and sensible piece from his Website (above) and compared it to the immature, spiteful rant from our Chairman it seems clear to me that one of these two individuals needs to grow up fast … and it isn’t the player who is too young to go on a Bosman.

you usually post sense, but i have to put to you this: if you had an employee who thought they could do a better job elsewhere, but then when nobody would take them, they came back, and as such, you were obliged to pay them, how would you, as an employer react?

i was one of those who has throughout the summer defended gray, and said he is totally within his rights to do what he was doing. but SJ has chosen to spoke out, and HE too is within his rights to do so. he is going to prove his point with gray as he did with bruce, and when the time is right for SJ, he will let gray go to the highest bidder.

James
05-10-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
James, James. You really are so keen to turn everything into an excuse for an anti-Jordan rant.

I really am not. I am usually the first to remind people that without Jordan we may not have a Club at all.

Actually.... on Saturday afternoon, I honestly left the ground feeling quite benign towards our intellectually challenged Chairman. He looked as pleased as I did with the win, and I said to a mate of mine that I thought he may have changed this Season - keeping his head down and not letting the World know quite how dim he can be.

However, this latest own goal takes the biscuit. I am thoroughly p****d off with Jordan for damaging - not himself - but the Club. Having told Kember that he can't strengthen the Team until he has got shot of Gray, he now seems Hell bent on keeping a highly paid player on the books at the expense of the Team out of some misguided sense of injustice.

We saw on Saturday that we may have a chance to do something this Season. Why can't Jordan see the bigger picture?

kolinkins
05-10-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by James
Why can't Jordan see the bigger picture?

because he is a human being like us all. if he feels he had been let down by somebody, then he has every right to express this.

James
05-10-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
you usually post sense, but i have to put to you this: if you had an employee who thought they could do a better job elsewhere, but then when nobody would take them, they came back, and as such, you were obliged to pay them, how would you, as an employer react?

I think you are a bit confused..

Jordan doesn't have to pay Gray. He can simply let him go. He only has to keep paying him if he wants the Club to retain the registration (and thus become entitled to a transfer fee if anyone does decide to take him).

Jordan could have sold Gray in the Summer, had he been prepared to take a fee below Jordan's valuation of the man. As things now stand, the chances of getting any substantial fee at all are greatly diminished AND Jordan has to keep paying him unless he is prepared to let him go for nothing.

This is the really stupid thing about much of the criticism directed at Gray. Many of the usual 'type first, think afterwards' group have slammed Gray for thinking that he is worth more than he is - yet it is Jordan who has been holding out for the massive fee. Gray doesn't think he is worth as much as Jordan clearly does, and has urged our Chairman to value him sensibly.

Look - I admit that sometimes I have overdone my criticisms of Jordan to get a reaction from the rest of you - but this time, there is absolutely no justification for what was a thoroughly stupid outburst from the man.... as I suspect you realise all too well.

Chickereagle
05-10-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by James
Why can't Jordan see the bigger picture?
Possible answers:

1. Because he hasn't got a wide screen tv?

2. Because he's like Winnie the Pooh? ;)

(Attempted) joking apart, I agree with your posts on this thread.

kolinkins
05-10-2003, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by James
I think you are a bit confused..

Jordan doesn't have to pay Gray.

i know that. the fact is, he is proving a point. and good on him too.

LLCOOLSTEVE
05-10-2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
i know that. the fact is, he is proving a point. and good on him too.

At the detrement to the rest of the team, and possibly the rest of the season?!

James
05-10-2003, 09:06 PM
i know that. the fact is, he is proving a point. and good on him too.


No - not good on him.

Kolinkins, I agree with you that Jordan has the right to do what he has done. However, the fact that he is acting within his rights does not reduce the damage that it has done. You may not think much of Gray and you may feel some sort of satisfaction seeing Jordan have a go at the man - but that completely misses the point.

Sometimes "proving a point" is too costly and just not worth it. This is one of those times.

Steve H
05-10-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by James
Many of the usual 'type first, think afterwards' group have slammed Gray for thinking that he is worth more than he is - yet it is Jordan who has been holding out for the massive fee. Gray doesn't think he is worth as much as Jordan clearly does, and has urged our Chairman to value him sensibly.

While I agree that SJ really needs to think before making these kind of public statements, I also can't disagree with those who slam Gray for blaming Palace for his inability to get a move. So CPFC value him too highly... why couldn't a club who seriously wanted to buy him simply take it to a tribunal?

kolinkins
05-10-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by James
No - not good on him.

Kolinkins, I agree with you that Jordan has the right to do what he has done. However, the fact that he is acting within his rights does not reduce the damage that it has done. You may not think much of Gray and you may feel some sort of satisfaction seeing Jordan have a go at the man - but that completely misses the point.

Sometimes "proving a point" is too costly and just not worth it. This is one of those times.

if you read my posts regarding gray, i do nit hate him, and have backed him. the point is that someone needs to stand up to players, and if it is our chairman, then well done to him.

LLCOOLSTEVE
05-10-2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
if you read my posts regarding gray, i do nit hate him, and have backed him. the point is that someone needs to stand up to players, and if it is our chairman, then well done to him.

Do you know how much resentment this causes amongst the players??

James
05-10-2003, 09:16 PM
I wonder what Kember thinks of this? It's Kember who is going to pay if his Team fail this year (and in Jordan's mind, 'failure' probably means staying in Division One). Yet Jordan's stance on Gray's future may make all the difference and ultimately cost Kember his job.

I really hope it isn't true that Jordan has told Kember that Gray may not be picked, but if it is, how can the man possibly work under such conditions? We know that Jordan has told Kember that future signings depend upon offloading Gray - so how frustrating must it be for our Manager to have a decent player sitting in the Stands, costing him the chance to strengthen the Team.

It's complete madness.

Why can't Jordan just enjoy Saturday's win with the rest of us, and not spoil things with his latest - and probably his most ridiculous - outburst?

kolinkins
05-10-2003, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
Do you know how much resentment this causes amongst the players??

i can imagine, but you dont think gray returning has done that?

Malakite
05-10-2003, 09:20 PM
Looks like that means Gray definately WONT be playing again for us, but you can hardly blame Jordan for saying what he has can you?

James
05-10-2003, 09:24 PM
Perhaps you can't blame Jordan for thinking it - you most certainly can blame him for saying it.

rambo
05-10-2003, 09:29 PM
We have a chairman who tends to breathe, think and speak like a fan. He has said what the vast majority of fans seem to have been thinking, not only on the basis of Gray's desire to leave us but also on the basis of his apparent attitude on the pitch while he was still here.

So, that sometimes means he speaks like a fan and not an accountant. Sometimes we need that. Sometimes it restores a bit of wounded pride, as when Bruce left. It makes us feel that the Club is owned by someone with a bit of passion. Maybe what James is saying is true, and it would be better for the balace sheet if he hadnt said this. But sometimes there are other considerations in football, too. After all, if he was motivated primarily by the balace sheet, he probably wouldnt have bought the Club in the first place and we may not now be here.

Brett
05-10-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by rambo
We have a chairman who tends to breathe

Therein lies the crux of the problem.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
The last 2 posts are the 2 most sensible replys on the thread, and the sad truth.

So if Freedman's contract was up in a year, and Charlton offered us 150K and Freedman wanted to play Premiership football we should just let him go for 150k because that's obviously what he's worth?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Don't try and tell me that Gray is only worth 150k. The whole point is Charlton, Blackburn and Leeds (to a lesser extent because I think they possibly could not afford it) were trying to screw us over, and I for one applaud the stance SJ has taken with Julian Gray. Remember Bent, Hreidarrson etc etc? We have let players go for pennies when we should have got more money because we were weak. Now we have a strong chairman and it's a refreshing change; one that should be welcomed wholeheartedly by everyone who loves the club.

By the way, I agree SJ has gone the wrong way about trying to make maximum profits in the short-term. He will definitely LOSE money over his stance with Gray, but that's not the point. The point is he won't let another club have a player for 150k when he is blatantly worth more than 3 times that amount. Why should we give rivals (all other clubs are rivals, especially those above us at the moment and those in the same league as us) bargains? If SJ had let him go it would have been a sign of weakness and we would have had the vultures circling for all our best players, trying to sign them for derisory abounts like 250k. In the long-term we will be better off.

And he wont let someone who is disloyal to the club get away with it. Why does Gray think he is more special than Mullins? Mullins has been the consummate professional, has played loads more games for the Palace cause and DESERVES his transfer at the end of the season. Gray should have stayed another season AT LEAST before deciding he was good enough for the Premiership. Then he could have left on a free transfer. He's messed up and until he admits his mistake and gets rid of his agent I have no sympathy for him

hughff
05-10-2003, 09:31 PM
I'd rather have JG playing than jogging round the training pitch keeping fit for his next contract. SJ is paying him a huge amount of money to not play for a year when he can sign for anyone on a free. Not smart money, I'd've said.

Granada allover
05-10-2003, 09:33 PM
Maybe it's simply Simon Jordan's own frustration and impatience getting the better of him but I fear these outburts will be his downfall. While he toughs it out in public with Gray (and we wonder who is next) internal morale and dressing-room unity will crumble with players forced to take sides when they should be focusing on the job in hand - working together to become a winning team.

SJ has the right to his opinion - but there is a time for shooting your mouth off and a time for buttoning it. I shall never forget Cloughie being asked by the late, great Brian Moore why, during the course of a season or two, he wasn't making his usual, headline-grabbing comments. "Because I haven't earned the right," returned Cloughie. "I haven't won anything recently. When I do, I'll be back."

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by James
I think you are a bit confused..

Jordan doesn't have to pay Gray. He can simply let him go. He only has to keep paying him if he wants the Club to retain the registration (and thus become entitled to a transfer fee if anyone does decide to take him).

Jordan could have sold Gray in the Summer, had he been prepared to take a fee below Jordan's valuation of the man. As things now stand, the chances of getting any substantial fee at all are greatly diminished AND Jordan has to keep paying him unless he is prepared to let him go for nothing.

This is the really stupid thing about much of the criticism directed at Gray. Many of the usual 'type first, think afterwards' group have slammed Gray for thinking that he is worth more than he is - yet it is Jordan who has been holding out for the massive fee. Gray doesn't think he is worth as much as Jordan clearly does, and has urged our Chairman to value him sensibly.

Look - I admit that sometimes I have overdone my criticisms of Jordan to get a reaction from the rest of you - but this time, there is absolutely no justification for what was a thoroughly stupid outburst from the man.... as I suspect you realise all too well.

This is what I cant understand. How can a 24 year old who thinks he is not only a Premiership quality player but also the solution to England's left-sided problem think he is worth only 150k? He is deluding himself. It's like Owen turning round to Houllier and saying that Real Madrid are interested in him, that he would be the best player in the world if he went there and that he only thinks he is worth a free!

Brett
05-10-2003, 09:41 PM
Many, many people on here have difficulty understanding the basic principles of business.

Your product (Julian Gray) is actually only 'worth' what those who are interested in your product are prepared to pay. That is to say - in this case - a lot less than a handful of spotty Championship Manager oiks believe your product is 'worth'.

Also, if you are having difficulty persuading buyers to purchase your product (or if they are interested but only at nominal rates), then you manipulate your product and use more spin than Shane Warne to make your product that much more attractive.

As Gerald Ratner also found to his personal cost, telling all and sundry (through the mass media) that your product is 'crap' often leads to your business struggling to make ends meet...

LLCOOLSTEVE
05-10-2003, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
So if Freedman's contract was up in a year, and Charlton offered us 150K and Freedman wanted to play Premiership football we should just let him go for 150k because that's obviously what he's worth?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:



No club is willing to pay whatever SJ thinks he is worth, Not JG's fault. By Sj holding back JG from a move he is holding back SK from making anymoves in the transfer market, 1 in 1 out. If SJ was letting JG play for CPFC then fair enough, but he isnt, he is just making him sit there and do nothing, throwing more money away on pointless wages, out of spite.

Granada allover
05-10-2003, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Brett
As Gerald Ratner also found to his personal cost, telling all and sundry (through the mass media) that your product is 'crap' often leads to your business struggling to make ends meet...

:lux:

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
No club is willing to pay whatever SJ thinks he is worth, Not JG's fault. By Sj holding back JG from a move he is holding back SK from making anymoves in the transfer market, 1 in 1 out. If SJ was letting JG play for CPFC then fair enough, but he isnt, he is just making him sit there and do nothing, throwing more money away on pointless wages, out of spite.

You haven't answered my question, and maybe Brett could answer it as well. If Charlton offered 150k for Freedman/Routledge/Mullins, and they wanted to go, then we should let them go because obviously the Charlton/Leeds/Blackburn chairmen have valued them realistically and SJ has not?

LLCOOLSTEVE
05-10-2003, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
You haven't answered my question, and maybe Brett could answer it as well. If Charlton offered 150k for Freedman/Routledge/Mullins, and they wanted to go, then we should let them go because obviously the Charlton/Leeds/Blackburn chairmen have valued them realistically and SJ has not?

Yes, its the way the markets going im afraid.

Mal Come Ally Son
05-10-2003, 10:02 PM
My my. SJ is so lucky in having such a large number of text book entrepo, entripone, entreprenoor - •••• it - text book businessmen who are all ready and able to tell him where he's going wrong on leadership, marketing, PR and motivation.

I really must get down to WH Smith and buy a 'Teach Yourself Business' book then I too can be a smug expert and write patronising posts on all those matters.

Brett
05-10-2003, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
My my. SJ is so lucky in having such a large number of text book entrepo, entripone, entreprenoor - •••• it - text book businessmen who are all ready and able to tell him where he's going wrong on leadership, marketing, PR and motivation.

I really must get down to WH Smith and buy a 'Teach Yourself Business' book then I too can be a smug expert and write patronising posts on all those matters.

I think it's still 'buy one, get one half price' at WH Smith as well...

LLCOOLSTEVE
05-10-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
My my. SJ is so lucky in having such a large number of text book entrepo, entripone, entreprenoor - •••• it - text book businessmen who are all ready and able to tell him where he's going wrong on leadership, marketing, PR and motivation.

I really must get down to WH Smith and buy a 'Teach Yourself Business' book then I too can be a smug expert and write patronising posts on all those matters.

Smug?! your post is exactly that, you dont need the book! :)

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Brett
Many, many people on here have difficulty understanding the basic principles of business.

Your product (Julian Gray) is actually only 'worth' what those who are interested in your product are prepared to pay. That is to say - in this case - a lot less than a handful of spotty Championship Manager oiks believe your product is 'worth'.

Also, if you are having difficulty persuading buyers to purchase your product (or if they are interested but only at nominal rates), then you manipulate your product and use more spin than Shane Warne to make your product that much more attractive.

As Gerald Ratner also found to his personal cost, telling all and sundry (through the mass media) that your product is 'crap' often leads to your business struggling to make ends meet...

I understand what u r saying about selling. BUT maybe it is worth more to us in the long-term if we lose money on Gray rahter than letting him go if it means it does not happen again. Maybe if he went to another club for such a derisory amount he would somehow affect our season? Unlikely I know, but for 300K is it worth taking the risk? Also it would send the wrong message to other clubs that we were a 'soft touch' and that other clubs could just offer us 50k and they could get any of our stars. In the future we may have a player much better than Gray in a similar scenario who interests a few more clubs. We may get a higher price for him because of the stance we took on Gray which may be worth millions to the club! At the end of the day, spiting Gray for his disloyalty is just a bonus!

James
05-10-2003, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
You haven't answered my question, and maybe Brett could answer it as well. If Charlton offered 150k for Freedman/Routledge/Mullins, and they wanted to go, then we should let them go because obviously the Charlton/Leeds/Blackburn chairmen have valued them realistically and SJ has not?

This discussion is becoming banal, and I am getting irritated, so I'm off to bed.

I'll just answer this (although it is patently obvious). Unless there is a conspiracy by every other Club in the land, the really valuable players will attract offers from other clubs – so it would be entirely academic whether or not Charlton only wanted to pay £150k for Freedman/Routledge/Mullins.

The point here is that only a couple of clubs were interested at all – and then only at a modest fee. It wasn’t as if Liverpool had come in with an offer of £6 million, but Gray would only agree to sign for Charlton at £100k, was it?

Gray simply isn’t worth what Jordan (note JORDAN, not a reputedly deluded Gray) thinks the player is worth. How can Gray be holding the Club to ransom? What exactly should Gray do (apart from offer his services to Palace, which he seems graciously to have done).

Scroatey
05-10-2003, 10:12 PM
I'm with SJ on this one! Even without uttering these words who truly believes Julian Gray could pull on a Palace shirt and give it 100%?

And some unfortunate maths (not real figures!!):

JG's wages of £10 a week x 26 weeks = £260

Sum paid to Palace for player when he moves = £260

At what point, in terms of weeks, does it become more expensive for the Club to pay his wages in the hope of gaining a fee, than simply releasing the player and getting nothing?

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
Yes, its the way the markets going im afraid.

If you were chairman for Man Utd, I'd love to be chairman for Palace! I would just offer you 10k for the whole team and you would accept! Then when you nurture and develop your young stars that your superb youth academy would produce, I would come back again and rob you!;)

LLCOOLSTEVE
05-10-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
If you were chairman for Man Utd, I'd love to be chairman for Palace! I would just offer you 10k for the whole team and you would accept! Then when you nurture and develop your young stars that your superb youth academy would produce, I would come back again and rob you!;)

:rolleyes:

Erm ok.

BTW We aint in Man Utd's league when i comes to transfers, Just a thought.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by James
This discussion is becoming banal, and I am getting irritated, so I'm off to bed.

I'll just answer this (although it is patently obvious). Unless there is a conspiracy by every other Club in the land, the really valuable players will attract offers from other clubs – so it would be entirely academic whether or not Charlton only wanted to pay £150k for Freedman/Routledge/Mullins.

The point here is that only a couple of clubs were interested at all – and then only at a modest fee. It wasn’t as if Liverpool had come in with an offer of £6 million, but Gray would only agree to sign for Charlton at £100k, was it?

Gray simply isn’t worth what Jordan (note JORDAN, not a reputedly deluded Gray) thinks the player is worth. How can Gray be holding the Club to ransom? What exactly should Gray do (apart from offer his services to Palace, which he seems graciously to have done).

Total cr@p. I don't believe in market forces always working. And also could it not be that Charlton and Leeds are trying to get themselves a bargain? At the end of the day no 24 year old Premiership player is worth less than 500k so SJ is right. It is impossible that Gray could be worth 150k and be a Premiership player, therefore Gray is DEFINITLEY deluded! Whether SJ is deluded is open to debate.

Mal Come Ally Son
05-10-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by James
What exactly should Gray do (apart from offer his services to Palace, which he seems graciously to have done).

James - I was reading this post with increasing irritation until I reach3ed this line. It was then that I realised that you can be as much as a wind up merchant as Trolley and that you are quite capable of posting rubbish that you don't really believe but which you now will be provocative.
:p

JG 'gracioulsy' offering us his services !! Hold on while I go to fetch my footstool:clown: :clown:

Brett
05-10-2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
If you were chairman for Man Utd, I'd love to be chairman for Palace! I would just offer you 10k for the whole team and you would accept! Then when you nurture and develop your young stars that your superb youth academy would produce, I would come back again and rob you!;)

Why?

Look at Ronaldinho's transfer. The price kept being pushed up because 3 different clubs were prepared to spend a bundle of cash on the goofy Brazilian.

Eventually Manchester United said that enough was enough (after Real Madrid had earlier pulled out) and 'Roni' went to Barcelona for £21M.

In conclusion, Ronaldinho was 'worth' £21M to Barcelona because any bid lower would have meant missing out on the players signature.

And because Paris Saint Germain were happy with £21M, the deal was done.

Hardly rocket science, is it?

LLCOOLSTEVE
05-10-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
James - I was reading this post with increasing irritation until I reach3ed this line. It was then that I realised that you can be as much as a wind up merchant as Trolley and that you are quite capable of posting rubbish that you don't really believe but which you now will be provocative.
:p

JG 'gracioulsy' offering us his services !! Hold on while I go to fetch my footstool:clown: :clown:

He means 'gracioulsy' as in the way he put his point of view across on his website, unlike the way SJ hs put his point of view across.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
:rolleyes:

Erm ok.

BTW We aint in Man Utd's league when i comes to transfers, Just a thought.

Doesn't mean we have to just give in and get bullied. We will fight the big clubs and not let their size intimidate us. We are NOT a feeder club anymore because we can afford to hold onto our players until the right price is offered. If only lower league clubs could afford to do the same. Then smaller clubs would not be exploited and could one day grow. Sadly the way it is the richer clubs are only going to get richer and the poorer clubs poorer and poorer and into extinction. Thank goodness we have SJ because it wont ever happen to us whilst he is at the helm.

James
05-10-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by Brett
Hardly rocket science, is it?

It might as well be Brett.

The fact is that there will always be a number of people who can't understand basic economics. It doesn't really matter and it does at least result in a feisty debate.

The really worrying thing however is not that people like Mal and Glaziers can't see the obvious - it's the fact that we have a moronic Chairman, who seems intent in sinking our Club and with it his personal fortune.

LLCOOLSTEVE
05-10-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
we can afford to hold onto our players until the right price is offered.

LMAO :D :D :D

James
05-10-2003, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
....................Sadly the way it is the richer clubs are only going to get richer and the poorer clubs poorer and poorer and into extinction. Thank goodness we have SJ because it wont ever happen to us whilst he is at the helm.

I really, really hope that this quote won't one day come back to haunt you!

Granada allover
05-10-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
My my. SJ is so lucky in having such a large number of text book entrepo, entripone, entreprenoor - •••• it - text book businessmen who are all ready and able to tell him where he's going wrong on leadership, marketing, PR and motivation.

That's the problem, Mal. I'm not asking him to listen to me (though I've never read a business text book in 17 years trading :p ). The issue is - who is Jordan listening to? Who at Selhurst is big enough to mix it with him - and pull him back from the edge?

We owe SJ a tremendous amount for shovelling his own, hard-won spondies into the club. But all the signs are there that he is tiring of it and that one day, in a fit of pique, he'll walk out, slam the door behind him and the club will be back beyond square one.

Mal Come Ally Son
05-10-2003, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
He means 'gracioulsy' as in the way he put his point of view across on his website, unlike the way SJ hs put his point of view across.

Thanks Steve, for clarifying what James meant. That's the trouble with lawyers these days - they have insufficient command of the language. Now, when I was at the Bar - but - no - that's a different matter and those days are long passed.

Incidentally, do I take it that you (and perhaps James) believe that Gray's 'gracious' words on his website are written by JG himself?

Oh dear me:eek:

Elephant with mouse gyp
05-10-2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
Do you know how much resentment this causes amongst the players??

A vital point. It might be worth some people having a read of the Gareth Southgate/Andy Woodman thread to get some idea of the precarious position players are often in, and the way they are treated by some clubs, before they jump on the 'players need to be brought down a peg or two' bandwagon.

Even if, morally speaking, for the good of their and our souls, they do need the peg-down treatment, that's not the way things work is it? This talk of the long term benefit to be had by treating 'em mean ignores the possibilty that all the tasty ones will prefer a less obnoxious sugar daddy.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Brett
Why?

Look at Ronaldinho's transfer. The price kept being pushed up because 3 different clubs were prepared to spend a bundle of cash on the goofy Brazilian.

Eventually Manchester United said that enough was enough (after Real Madrid had earlier pulled out) and 'Roni' went to Barcelona for £21M.

In conclusion, Ronaldinho was 'worth' £21M to Barcelona because any bid lower would have meant missing out on the players signature.

And because Paris Saint Germain were happy with £21M, the deal was done.

Hardly rocket science, is it?

Yeah but you're forgetting another club that is offering a price for the player! That is the club that owns the player! In this case PSG thought the player was worth 21m to them. Fair enough. In our case SJ thinks Gray is worth 500k, and if there are no clubs interested in paying that then we will hold onto him. WE ARE NOT NECESSARILY WRONG ABOUT THE VALUE OF OUR PLAYER JUST BECAUSE NO-ONE IS PREPARED TO MATCH OUR VALUATION/"OFFER". LLcoolSteve has basically just admitted that he values Dougie, Routledge etc at 150k or less, so if an offer came in of 150k he would sell. Fair enough and I respect that. But if I was manager I would value them at least at 2m, and I would have valued Gray at least at 500k. Personally I think if a club offered 500k for Gray it would be a bargain for them and we would get the raw deal. But as I'm not the chairman it's not up to me. How can Gray think he is worth only 150k and be a Premiership quality player! His beliefs contradict one another. Every 24 yr old Premiership player is worth 150k to the club that sells (maybe not to the clubs that buy because they might be able to get a better bargain somewhere else from a chairman who is weaker (for whatever reason) and willing to let their player go for even less, eg a third division side where 100k means much more to them than it does to a 1st division club like Palace).

Brett
05-10-2003, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
Yeah but you're forgetting another club that is offering a price for the player! That is the club that owns the player! In this case PSG thought the player was worth 21m to them. Fair enough. In our case SJ thinks Gray is worth 500k, and if there are no clubs interested in paying that then we will hold onto him. WE ARE NOT NECESSARILY WRONG ABOUT THE VALUE OF OUR PLAYER JUST BECAUSE NO-ONE IS PREPARED TO MATCH OUR VALUATION/"OFFER". LLcoolSteve has basically just admitted that he values Dougie, Routledge etc at 150k or less, so if an offer came in of 150k he would sell. Fair enough and I respect that. But if I was manager I would value them at least at 2m, and I would have valued Gray at least at 500k. Personally I think if a club offered 500k for Gray it would be a bargain for them and we would get the raw deal. But as I'm not the chairman it's not up to me. How can Gray think he is worth only 150k and be a Premiership quality player! His beliefs contradict one another. Every 24 yr old Premiership player is worth 150k to the club that sells (maybe not to the clubs that buy because they might be able to get a better bargain somewhere else from a chairman who is weaker (for whatever reason) and willing to let their player go for even less, eg a third division side where 100k means much more to them than it does to a 1st division club like Palace).

Ronaldinho was only ••••••• 'worth' £21M because someone was prepared to ••••••• pay it...!!!

For ••••s sake. :bash:

Elephant with mouse gyp
05-10-2003, 10:47 PM
galziers fan - the price of a player - any player - will tend to go down as his contract draws to a close. Before I go to bed, I'd like you to take in that point.

El Aguila
05-10-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
James, James. You really are so keen to turn everything into an excuse for an anti-Jordan rant.
Sorry, but, perhaps for the first time since I registered on these boards, James is right. It's a terrible shame; I had thought that Jordan was playing the Gray situation cleverly, refusing to budge until another club paid half a million, thus leaving us with a player keento prove his value at worst, but he's just been pig-headed about it. What good can having him on the payroll but barred from playing, possibly do to the club, Gray, Jordan's finances, the manager or the fans?

Mal Come Ally Son
05-10-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Granada allover
That's the problem, Mal. I'm not asking him to listen to me (though I've never read a business text book in 17 years trading :p ). The issue is - who is Jordan listening to? Who at Selhurst is big enough to mix it with him - and pull him back from the edge?

We owe SJ a tremendous amount for shovelling his own, hard-won spondies into the club. But all the signs are there that he is tiring of it and that one day, in a fit of pique, he'll walk out, slam the door behind him and the club will be back beyond square one.

Granada - thank you, thank you, thank you. And this time I mean it. At last, someone who has described the problem precisely. Yes - SJ does screw it up. And yes - he almost certainly does need some strong personality at his side, someone who is not reliant on SJ for a living, someone who is knowledgeable enough to say "You're talking crap", and someone who is sufficiently respected in the world to be bullet proof because if SJ sacked him for not doing as he's told it would lead to an immediate and total loss of credibility for SJ.

Coppell was not the man. Why? Because Coppell was not seen as being a senior enough or a prestigious enough figure by the football world in general. I think he should have been so regarded but he was not - which says a lot about the way the football world assesses people, but that's a different matter.

Take Spurs, as an example. They can sack Hoddle and the city reacts calmly. However, if they sacked David Pleat because he would not do as he was told, and if Pleat went public with that, then shares in Spurs would fall through the floor.

So - I'm not blind to Jordan's faults. And I know enough about the dangers of 'one man companies' to know what difficulties can arise when nobody is prepared to speak bluntly to the owner It's just that I think the abusive and insulting manner in which criticisms of him are expressed on here would be unacceptable even if they came from a from a senior and successful figure. And as such they are possibly counter-productive.

We need a David Pleat type figure. I don't know who and I don't know how. But I am pretty confident that terrace 'experts' lecturing SJ on business practice will get us nowhere.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Brett
Ronaldinho was only ••••••• 'worth' £21M because someone was prepared to ••••••• pay it...!!!

For ••••s sake. :bash:

No! He was worth 21m because that's what another club was prepared to pay AND that's what price the club holding his registration thought he was worth to them. If his value to them was 25m then he would have been worth 25m!! It's simple Economics! Have you a degree in it or something?! If that is the case I bow to your superior knowledge. He would only have been worth 21m IF THE CLUB HAD TO SELL AT THAT PRECISE MOMENT and they didn't!

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp
galziers fan - the price of a player - any player - will tend to go down as his contract draws to a close. Before I go to bed, I'd like you to take in that point.

lol, I've factored that in! If Gray had 3 years left on his contract he would be worth far more to CPFC than 500k.

oz_da II
05-10-2003, 11:00 PM
Oh my glaziers fan!

I have never heard so much rubbish in my life. Even after living in a house full of South Africans, your player's worth "explanation" takes the cake.

Well done that man :lux:

Mal Come Ally Son
05-10-2003, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by LLCOOLSTEVE
Smug?! your post is exactly that, you dont need the book! :)

Well, I said months ago that Gray will only get to the Premiership in a promotion winning Palace side, and last July I said that Jordan should take whatever offer he can get because that offer will only go one way - downwards.

And as I'm right on both counts (so far, at least) I think I'm entitled to be smug.

And as I'm in a smug mood let me remind Brett that his analysis of market forces is based on the assumption (even though he ddoesn't realise it) of a willing buyer and a willing seller. At whatever sum Charlton offered we had a willing buyer but we did not have a willing seller. Therefore - no agreed market value.

Right is there anybody else out there that I can piss of or generally insult? Come on then - let's have yer. I'll take you all on :clown:

PalaceFan in Alabama
05-10-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by James
This discussion is becoming banal, and I am getting irritated, so I'm off to bed.

If that is the case why pray tell me did you bother to answer? The same could be said about your opinions on SJ.

I'll just answer this (although it is patently obvious). Unless there is a conspiracy by every other Club in the land, the really valuable players will attract offers from other clubs – so it would be entirely academic whether or not Charlton only wanted to pay £150k for Freedman/Routledge/Mullins.

It was also patently obvious that JG was not worth 500,000. I am sure James that you have come across many houses where the owners believe their property was worth way beyond that of the market value.

The point here is that only a couple of clubs were interested at all – and then only at a modest fee. It wasn’t as if Liverpool had come in with an offer of £6 million, but Gray would only agree to sign for Charlton at £100k, was it?

Gray simply isn’t worth what Jordan (note JORDAN, not a reputedly deluded Gray) thinks the player is worth. How can Gray be holding the Club to ransom? What exactly should Gray do (apart from offer his services to Palace, which he seems graciously to have done).

The point is James none of these teams seemed prepared to even put in an offer, there was a lot of paper talk, yet can you honestly say that a written offer was given to CPFC? Gray and his agent started the "I want to go" comments, or are you of the opinion that SJ was to blame for this as well.

SJ is not on my Christmas card list and I wish there was a way to bring someone else in. It appears to me that you wish to blame him for the everything that happens to CPFC, which could be classed as banal!

Out of interest what is Uncle Ron's opinion on this?

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by El Aguila
Sorry, but, perhaps for the first time since I registered on these boards, James is right. It's a terrible shame; I had thought that Jordan was playing the Gray situation cleverly, refusing to budge until another club paid half a million, thus leaving us with a player keento prove his value at worst, but he's just been pig-headed about it. What good can having him on the payroll but barred from playing, possibly do to the club, Gray, Jordan's finances, the manager or the fans?

It's done harm to all of those mentioned above but it is going to benefit the club in the long-term. We are no longer going to get messed about like with Marcus Bent (150k:eek: ) and taken advantage of ever again. No player is going to mess with the club again, another benefit of the stance. And also I guess SJ's personal satisfaction must be factored in!;)

Brett
05-10-2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
And as I'm in a smug mood let me remind Brett that his analysis of market forces is based on the assumption (even though he ddoesn't realise it) of a willing buyer and a willing seller. At whatever sum Charlton offered we had a willing buyer but we did not have a willing seller. Therefore - no agreed market value.

Er, Palace were desperate to sell Gray all summer. Jordan over-egged Gray's worth. Therefore, Gray is only 'worth' whatever sum Charlton or Blackburn feel he is worth to them. Obviously you never have to sell at product at any price but worth is only ever the figure that someone else is prepared to pay.

Don't forget that (incongruous prick).

limited_edition
05-10-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by Brett
Ronaldinho was only ••••••• 'worth' £21M because someone was prepared to ••••••• pay it...!!!

For ••••s sake. :bash: Akinbiyi was only 'worth' £2.2m because our mug of a chairman was prepared to pay it.

PalaceFan in Alabama
05-10-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
of a willing buyer and a willing seller. At whatever sum Charlton offered we had a willing buyer but we did not have a willing seller. Therefore - no agreed market value.

What most seem to be missing is that we have seen the good, the bad and the ugly sides of JG and these clubs took him on trial and for whatever reasons none of them became a willing buyer. The answer is in my opinion is not just one of price, but of attitude.
It is all well and good believing your are good, but when it comes to prove the point :eek:

oz_da II
05-10-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
We are no longer going to get messed about like with Marcus Bent (150k:eek: ) and taken advantage of ever again. No player is going to mess with the club again, another benefit of the stance.

Hahaha.

The "magic" continues.

Keep 'em rolling g_f, this is fantastic material!

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
Well, I said months ago that Gray will only get to the Premiership in a promotion winning Palace side, and last July I said that Jordan should take whatever offer he can get because that offer will only go one way - downwards.

And as I'm right on both counts (so far, at least) I think I'm entitled to be smug.

And as I'm in a smug mood let me remind Brett that his analysis of market forces is based on the assumption (even though he ddoesn't realise it) of a willing buyer and a willing seller. At whatever sum Charlton offered we had a willing buyer but we did not have a willing seller. Therefore - no agreed market value.

Right is there anybody else out there that I can piss of or generally insult? Come on then - let's have yer. I'll take you all on :clown:

Agree about your point on Brett's analysis of market forces! (It's not often that the even more smug:) Brett is wrong!) But I believe JG was worth 500k to us and don't think SJ should have sold for less, even if no club was prepared to offer it.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by oz_da II
Hahaha.

The "magic" continues.

Keep 'em rolling g_f, this is fantastic material!

Care to elaborate why I'm so mistaken, or does your intelligence not stretch to manage such an explanation?:rolleyes: At the end of the day, this is my point of view. If you think I'm wrong fair enough. I would be interested to hear your point of view (if yo have one).

oz_da II
05-10-2003, 11:24 PM
I think SJ should have taken the first offer given and get that (fill in the blank) away from our club. You say don't take anything less than £500,000, but surely £150,000 is better than nowt which now looks likely. Meanwhile we're losing an extra £4,000 a week while JG cools his heels training with the kids or who ever.

This stinks of SJ being childish again. Just like the hiring of TF (which was nothing other than SJ trying to get one up on that wench Brady) 2-0 to Mrs Pescosolido.

Well done Simon.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by Elephant with mouse gyp
A vital point. It might be worth some people having a read of the Gareth Southgate/Andy Woodman thread to get some idea of the precarious position players are often in, and the way they are treated by some clubs, before they jump on the 'players need to be brought down a peg or two' bandwagon.

Even if, morally speaking, for the good of their and our souls, they do need the peg-down treatment, that's not the way things work is it? This talk of the long term benefit to be had by treating 'em mean ignores the possibilty that all the tasty ones will prefer a less obnoxious sugar daddy.

Good point. Maybe if SJ offered Dougie a new improved contract or something?!:p Show his admiration for the loyal players to show that he is not all bad!

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by oz_da II
I think SJ should have taken the first offer given and get that (fill in the blank) away from our club. You say don't take anything less than £500,000, but surely £150,000 is better than nowt which now looks likely. Meanwhile we're losing an extra £4,000 a week while JG cools his heels training with the kids or who ever.

This stinks of SJ being childish again. Just like the hiring of TF (which was nothing other than SJ trying to get one up on that wench Brady) 2-0 to Mrs Pescosolido.

Well done Simon.

Financially, so far and probably ultimately, you are correct, but I still think his stance was the right one. Why should we get taken advantage of? You're laughing about Marcus Bent. The circumstances there were different but the basic fact is we were exploited because we wanted to get rid so quickly. His true worth was a few million which he later went for. He didn't improve overnight. Goldberk just let the club be raped! Why is that so funny?

Oh and on a seperate point, because of the collapse of the transfer market, it's 2-1 because of the price we got for Clinton!!!

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by oz_da II
I think SJ should have taken the first offer given and get that (fill in the blank) away from our club. You say don't take anything less than £500,000, but surely £150,000 is better than nowt which now looks likely. Meanwhile we're losing an extra £4,000 a week while JG cools his heels training with the kids or who ever.

This stinks of SJ being childish again. Just like the hiring of TF (which was nothing other than SJ trying to get one up on that wench Brady) 2-0 to Mrs Pescosolido.

Well done Simon.

ALSO WHAT WOULD YOU THINK IF GRAY LEFT FOR 150K (FOR LESS THAN A THIRD OF OUR ORIGINAL EVALUATION) AND SCORED 15 GOALS IN THE PREMIERSHIP? If I was a chairman or a fan I would be p!ssed off!! If we didn't keep to our initial (fair) valuation we would be exploited by other clubs who would know that they would never need to offer our valuation, and could sign our players at a fraction of the price we wanted, not the kind of message we want to send out.

oz_da II
05-10-2003, 11:41 PM
Wasn't laughing at the Marcus Bent bit, but was "rolling on the floor" about you seeming to think we will never be taken advantage of or no player messing about with the club.

It happens and will happen all the time.

oz_da II
05-10-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
ALSO WHAT WOULD YOU THINK IF GRAY LEFT FOR 150K (FOR LESS THAN A THIRD OF OUR ORIGINAL EVALUATION) AND SCORED 15 GOALS IN THE PREMIERSHIP?

Oh boy!

Please stop my sides are killing me.

Ever thought of rolling up at The Comedy Store? You could make a mint.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by oz_da II
Oh boy!

Please stop my sides are killing me.

Ever thought of rolling up at The Comedy Store? You could make a mint.

I'm not saying he will! I'm just saying it's possible and your reaction would be different to the one you are showing now.

glaziers fan
05-10-2003, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by oz_da II
Wasn't laughing at the Marcus Bent bit, but was "rolling on the floor" about you seeming to think we will never be taken advantage of or no player messing about with the club.

It happens and will happen all the time.

Ok it won't be completely eradicated but it is going to happen less and less.

oz_da II
05-10-2003, 11:51 PM
He's nowhere near good enough.

But if in your dreamworld it did happen, I would take my hat off to JG and say, "Fair play Julian, didn't think you were that good but well played." I'd still be thankful for the £150,000 we got for him because there is one thing you seem to forget.....

He doesn't want to play for us.

Celestial Empire
06-10-2003, 12:23 AM
James called this "a debate". :D :vader: :bash:
Let's see what the tabloids make of this tomorrow.
More trashing of Palace I guess. :rolleyes:

Granada allover
06-10-2003, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by Mal Come Ally Son
Granada - thank you, thank you, thank you. And this time I mean it. At last, someone who has described the problem precisely. Yes - SJ does screw it up. And yes - he almost certainly does need some strong personality at his side, someone who is not reliant on SJ for a living, someone who is knowledgeable enough to say "You're talking crap", and someone who is sufficiently respected in the world to be bullet proof because if SJ sacked him for not doing as he's told it would lead to an immediate and total loss of credibility for SJ.

Coppell was not the man. Why? Because Coppell was not seen as being a senior enough or a prestigious enough figure by the football world in general. I think he should have been so regarded but he was not - which says a lot about the way the football world assesses people, but that's a different matter.

Take Spurs, as an example. They can sack Hoddle and the city reacts calmly. However, if they sacked David Pleat because he would not do as he was told, and if Pleat went public with that, then shares in Spurs would fall through the floor.

So - I'm not blind to Jordan's faults. And I know enough about the dangers of 'one man companies' to know what difficulties can arise when nobody is prepared to speak bluntly to the owner It's just that I think the abusive and insulting manner in which criticisms of him are expressed on here would be unacceptable even if they came from a from a senior and successful figure. And as such they are possibly counter-productive.

We need a David Pleat type figure. I don't know who and I don't know how. But I am pretty confident that terrace 'experts' lecturing SJ on business practice will get us nowhere.


Agree completely. :p :p :p

Gooders
06-10-2003, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by James
It might as well be Brett.

The fact is that there will always be a number of people who can't understand basic economics. It doesn't really matter and it does at least result in a feisty debate.

The really worrying thing however is not that people like Mal and Glaziers can't see the obvious - it's the fact that we have a moronic Chairman, who seems intent in sinking our Club and with it his personal fortune.

I thought you were going to bed?

Please

51482
06-10-2003, 08:08 AM
Just read through this entire thread and was amazed how many people have called Julian stupid and easily-led. Something to discuss as you work hard, 37 hrs, for your £500pw and Julian has to turn up for a couple of hours twice a week and maybe join in a game of football once a week,having to prove nothing for his £4000 pw? Wish i was that stupid.

henryhallandhisbasque
06-10-2003, 08:17 AM
£500 per week. Some people can only dream of £500 per week.

Tim
06-10-2003, 08:30 AM
I rated Gray as a player and I can see both points of view. Gray wants to play in the premeirship and he persued that gamble however no club wanted to pay the rightful amount for his services. SJ is certainly no mug and all credit to him for not letting them take th p!ss

Freddy Kurz
06-10-2003, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
Total cr@p. I don't believe in market forces always working. And also could it not be that Charlton and Leeds are trying to get themselves a bargain? At the end of the day no 24 year old Premiership player is worth less than 500k so SJ is right. It is impossible that Gray could be worth 150k and be a Premiership player, therefore Gray is DEFINITLEY deluded! Whether SJ is deluded is open to debate.


You can huff and puff for as long as you like,
but clubs will only stump up the money THEY
think a player is worth to them. It is immat-
erial what Palace fans or Jordan think he's
worth. Buyers don't care a a tinker's cuss.
Unless a buying club is prepared to cough up
the dosh, Gray will either have to be given a
free transfer, or, to keep his contract open,
Jordan will have to keep paying him 4 grand
a week. THAT IS THE TRANSFER SYSTEM
AS IT STANDS. It has nothing to do with
Gray's bloody-mindedness, ego or devious
ness. Meanwhile our Chairman insists
on tilting at windmills (Don Quixote style),
seemingly intent on depriving his manager
of much needed funds to strengthen the
first-team squad. Is it not time for Simon
Jordan to direct his lance at the real wind-
mill: Bosman? In the meantime either
fix a realistic fee for Gray, or release him
on a free and use any money saved/
gained to allow Kember to bring in the player/
players he needs?

Steve H
06-10-2003, 08:49 AM
So am I wrong in thinking a bidding club doesn't have to match SJ's valuation?

I'm sure other players leaving on a Bosman have had their valuations decided by a tribunal before, but is that just in the Premiership? (or is it just for players who haven't been offered a new contract?)

glaziers fan
06-10-2003, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by Steve H
So am I wrong in thinking a bidding club doesn't have to match SJ's valuation?

I'm sure other players leaving on a Bosman have had their valuations decided by a tribunal before, but is that just in the Premiership? (or is it just for players who haven't been offered a new contract?)

exactly. The price other prem clubs are willing to pay is a silly amount and way less than a tribunal would set. Thats why I say keep him, and put him in the reserves. He might teach them a trick or 2.

Gooders
06-10-2003, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Freddy Kurz
In the meantime either fix a realistic fee for Gray, or release him on a free and use any money saved/gained to allow Kember to bring in the player/players he needs?

I would imagine that that is how the situation will evolve.

SJ is now throwing good money after bad and once he feels he's made his point (whatever that point is) JG will leave on a free.

That is as long as JG and his agent are after a realistic wage for him of course (as this may or may not have been an additional stumbling block to his potential signing for Leeds/Chortleton/Blackburn etc.)

So the bottom line will be that all these rules post-Bosman will come to nothing - JG will end up getting his free move and SJ will have chucked another £100,000 down the toilet.

kolinkins
06-10-2003, 09:07 AM
If someone had actually made a firm offer, it would have gone to tribunal. the fact that it has not gone to tribunal indicates that no bid was made. even if gray is worth £500k to us, to any other club, that seems ridiculous as he is an out of contract player.

oz_da II
06-10-2003, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by Tim
I rated Gray as a player and I can see both points of view. Gray wants to play in the premeirship and he persued that gamble however no club wanted to pay the rightful amount for his services. SJ is certainly no mug and all credit to him for not letting them take th p!ss

I'd rather be thought of as a mug with £150,000 in my pocket than be classified as "no mug" with nothing in my pocket and meanwhile dishing out £4,000 a week.

Richard
06-10-2003, 09:26 AM
If this "one in, one out" policy really does exist in the club, and I don't think it's ever been officially mentioned, wasn't an (internal) condition of Hughes' signing that Gray had gone ? I thought that this was why Hughes wasn't signed in time for the first game of the season.

I suppose that Akinibyi has now gone (although I suspect that Palace may be subsidising his wages for a while yet), but surely bringing Gray back has simplybrken any internal rule that existed.

And, are we now assuming that no firm offers were receved for Gray at all, or were they simply unacceptable to Simon Jordan ?

Amsterdam Eagle
06-10-2003, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Freddy Kurz
You can huff and puff for as long as you like,
but clubs will only stump up the money THEY
think a player is worth to them. It is immat-
erial what Palace fans or Jordan think he's
worth. Buyers don't care a a tinker's cuss.
Unless a buying club is prepared to cough up
the dosh, Gray will either have to be given a
free transfer, or, to keep his contract open,
Jordan will have to keep paying him 4 grand
a week. THAT IS THE TRANSFER SYSTEM
AS IT STANDS. It has nothing to do with
Gray's bloody-mindedness, ego or devious
ness. Meanwhile our Chairman insists
on tilting at windmills (Don Quixote style),
seemingly intent on depriving his manager
of much needed funds to strengthen the
first-team squad. Is it not time for Simon
Jordan to direct his lance at the real wind-
mill: Bosman? In the meantime either
fix a realistic fee for Gray, or release him
on a free and use any money saved/
gained to allow Kember to bring in the player/
players he needs?

Agreed

Gray has been on trial with 3 premiership clubs and if they thought he was worth 500k they would have made an offer. This indicates that his market value is well below 500k. Yes maybe he does have some talent, but also the fact that he has a bad attitude and may not fit in with another squad may be the real reason for another team not signing him.

After Jordan's outburst, we'll be lucky to get 150k for him.

917L
06-10-2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Ben H
But when Jules comes back we want him to play well and with commitment.

No I dont ever want to see him in a Palace shirt again.

glaziers fan
06-10-2003, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by 917L
No I dont ever want to see him in a Palace shirt again.

I dunno. I'd quite like to wander down to Selhurst park on a cold and frosty night and see Julian Gray strutting his stuff for the Palace RESERVES!!

ravepants
06-10-2003, 10:04 AM
I for one am smiling over this, least it shows Jordan still has a passion about the club, he is mouthing off, but who cares, he is talking about HIS CLUB, which will upset a few on this board, as he sounds like he has no intention of jumping ship, those with a deathwish for our club have just had their plans setback several steps. Gray doesnt wish to pay for us, too good for us? ha ha, maybe his agents words, but hey what is the transfer % the agent gets of NOTHING!!!! I hope we dont pick him for the reserves personally!! WOuldnt want to see him in the red and blue ever again! if someone offers 10p id let him go, but with a healthwarning like on a packet of fags!!! I wouldnt touch him, his agents, attitude with someone else bargepole!

ravepants
06-10-2003, 10:05 AM
Pay for us....... play! hey Im human but very apt!

James
06-10-2003, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by ravepants
................ Gray doesnt wish to pay for us, too good for us? ha ha, maybe his agents words, but hey what is the transfer % the agent gets of NOTHING!!!!

I wouldn't get too smug about this just yet.

If Gray does see out the Season, he will effectively be free to negotiate his own contract with any third party. Any (modest) premium that would have come our way, will go to the Player.

I suspect that Gray's Agent will do very well indeed as and when his Client does eventually sign up with another Club!

kolinkins
06-10-2003, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by James
I wouldn't get too smug about this just yet.

If Gray does see out the Season, he will effectively be free to negotiate his own contract with any third party. Any (modest) premium that would have come our way, will go to the Player.

I suspect that Gray's Agent will do very well indeed as and when his Client does eventually sign up with another Club!

i was undet the impression that agents now get a % of the wages as opposed to the fee?

RichieG
06-10-2003, 10:36 AM
Agents get whatever they can screw out of whichever dumb **** they happen to be representing at the time.........as well as whatever they can screw out of whichever hapless club they happen to be negotiating with that week.......

It's not like there's an industry regulator that dictates what terms they can operate on, they are real sharks, and FIFA and UEFA, being about as corrupt as the agents, love it 'cos they get their pockets filled too!

Football is a filthy world.........or the world is filthy and football just gets more attention.....you decide!

Oh, and as for Julian Gray, I side with James and LLCOOLSTEVE here, Jordan (as usual) is letting his emotions get the better of what would be in the best interests of the club. He's being a bit of a prat, and the usual prats on here are defending him because they too find it easier to respond with emotional instinct than to establish the logical best interests of the club and move forward accordingly.....

They say also that Jordan thinks like a fan.........nice to hear sometimes, but usually full of sh1t!

andywilliams
06-10-2003, 12:00 PM
personally i can't see the problem , if he's come back to us to play and commit himself fine let SJ @SK sort him ,after all we have resinged players that have lfet us before and welcomed them back Doug,Shipps@ Hoppo to name a few and lets face it , if he plays with the same attitude that he did at the end of last season i'm sure the Holmesdale will advise him of his very limited options

bald-eagle
06-10-2003, 01:17 PM
quote:
"if he's come back to us to play and commit himself fine let SJ @SK sort him ,after all we have resinged players that have lfet us before and welcomed them back Doug,Shipps@ Hoppo to name a few and lets face it , if he plays with the same attitude that he did at the end of last season i'm sure the Holmesdale will advise him of his very limited options"quote:


Therein lies the problem.
IMO he is not thinking of Palace and hasn't, by any stretch of the imagination, committed himself to us. He is probably looking for a few quid whilst still having no intention of staying. He could have done this in the summer by signing an extention, but instead chose to leave, saying he didn't want to play for us.....what's changed?

I know he could, with the right attitude, do a decent job for us, but, I hope he doesn't get the chance. If that makes me a pratt, as RichieG suggests, then so be it. You can't demand commitment from your team only when you feel like it. It's the same sort of mentality as critisizing only selected players' performances because of their "terrace cred"...and you all know what I mean.

ravepants
06-10-2003, 01:26 PM
Jordan is a human being first and foremost, we can all sit back and judge other people away from a situation cant we? but if you had helped someone, encouraged someone paid someone for 3 years and they sh@t on you from great heights, human nature is you wanna slap black, you kick out, angry aggrieved, you dont stop and take a step back and think.... I for one am glad he is human, and lets face if he stopped stepped back and thought of the consequences he probably wouldnt have saved us in the first place!!! Well done I say, stand up and say NO! , and as for Bruce, the gardening leave wasnt damaging to us in reality, and it was quite funny, he wanted to go and went, yes we suffered as he obviously has proved his skills at Birmingham, but we couldnt keep him! The gray situation is much the same, and whilst on that subject, it is his agent I dislike not really the guy personally........

RichieG
06-10-2003, 01:27 PM
The point I tried to convey isn't that he should be straight back in the team and all forgiven, more that with this outburst Mr. Jordan just makes it harder for us to get a decent fee for him, which isn't in the clubs best interests as I understand them.

Now it's Mr. Jordan's money, and he has every right to his "spite", it's just that I'd rather see him using what money he's prepared to put into Palace a little more constructively!

ravepants
06-10-2003, 01:36 PM
James ....... the agent being happy to sit back and take a bigger cut implies that someone will want to buy a player with a stinking attitude and advisors like he has...... how many clubs has he been to to promote his wares???? So they are scared off they might have to pay a fee to us? why? coz a free or low transfer balances the risk they are taking on that attitude? I dont know Jordan, but I for one will excuse any mistakes he makes in Palaces name to be honest because it is because of him I have a Palace to support, and I refuse to apologise for that, Ill say when I think he is wrong, but I will always respect him for saving us!

James
06-10-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by ravepants
.............. I dont know Jordan, but I for one will excuse any mistakes he makes in Palaces name to be honest because it is because of him I have a Palace to support, and I refuse to apologise for that, Ill say when I think he is wrong, but I will always respect him for saving us!

Well, put that way, you and I are closer than you might think.

I am also grateful to Jordan for ensuring that we still have a Club at all ('respect' really isn't the word I would use however) and just like you, I'll say when I think he is wrong.

In the case of Gray he is wrong.

Al From Bromley
06-10-2003, 02:24 PM
I hope Gray has sacked his agent. Scum of the earth misleading an impressionable young man, probably after his performance against Liverpool. Part of me feels sorry for him, he'll probably get to play very little football this season and he does, without doubt, have a talent.

ElwissAtMemphis
06-10-2003, 02:35 PM
After all these pages, I'm still unclear. Have Palace ever received a firm offer for Gray ? £150K from Charlton has been mentioned here. Can anybody set the record straight about this.

If we have then Jordan should have bitten their hand off. The fact of the matter is, he just isn't very good. He's got the ability as his goal at Anfield demonstrated but as has already been stated, his crossing is generally woeful and his average performance last season was frankly p1ss-poor. I can't help thinking that Charlton/ Blackburn/ that German club's comments about budgets and valuations were just polite ways of saying he just plain wasn't good enough.

I hate agreeing with James but I really can't begin to see the benefit of saying these things in the press even if I think that there's a certain degree of pleasing come-uppance in his current situation after his patent lack of effort at the end of last season and his (probably his agent's) over-inflated view of his ability.

Dodger
06-10-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by RichieG
Oh, and as for Julian Gray, I side with James and LLCOOLSTEVE here, Jordan (as usual) is letting his emotions get the better of what would be in the best interests of the club. He's being a bit of a prat, and the usual prats on here are defending him because they too find it easier to respond with emotional instinct than to establish the logical best interests of the club and move forward accordingly.....


That's it in a nutshell. Jordan just hates being messed about, it was the same with Bruce, he just wouldn't let it go. The fact is, whether you think he's right or wrong, he probably doesn't give a sh*t.

I quite like having SJ as a Chairman, it adds a bit of spice to the club. I'm sure a lot of people would prefer we had an older, wiser man who was never in the press and was not really known about. We just have to get used to the fact that we've got a hot head in charge, sometimes he makes some good decisions, sometime he doesn't. Never dull though is it :cool: :p

Al From Bromley
06-10-2003, 02:51 PM
...he just comes across as an arrogant, petulant, do it my way or don't do it at all, idiot sometimes. Having money doesnt necessitate behaving like a cock does it? Yes, its his money and his club, he can do what he likes, but sometimes, quite often in fact, the interests of the club and its suporters seem to go out of the window in favour of one of his semi-literate, spoilt child taking ball home from park, rants. Entertaining it may be to some, but I am sure the media are laughing all the way to their desks at such petulant naivety.

Celestial Empire
06-10-2003, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Dodger
That's it in a nutshell. Jordan just hates being messed about, it was the same with Bruce, he just wouldn't let it go. The fact is, whether you think he's right or wrong, he probably doesn't give a sh*t.

I quite like having SJ as a Chairman, it adds a bit of spice to the club. I'm sure a lot of people would prefer we had an older, wiser man who was never in the press and was not really known about. We just have to get used to the fact that we've got a hot head in charge, sometimes he makes some good decisions, sometime he doesn't. Never dull though is it :cool: :p

You mean an older, wiser, man who could get the club running properly, help us win promotion, stability in the Prem and the stadium sorted ?
Nah, why would we want that, it's much more fun scrabbling around among the "also rans", being the real "clowntown of south London", mouthing off in the press and running vindictive campaigns for no gain, isn't it ?

By the way, why does everyone blame Gray's agent ? Could be his mate Thierry leading him up the garden path, or any number of mates/hangers-on - might even be the late, lamented "Lady Supporter".

James
06-10-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
..............I hate agreeing with James

I know just how you feel. It makes me uncomfortable as well.

Never mind, I'll soon be sticking up for Noades or something, then you and I will know exactly where we stand!

Al From Bromley
06-10-2003, 03:21 PM
Whatever happened to all that speculation that was knocking about on the boards the other day about first woman chairman, Noades in disguise etc? Is it a goer or just wishful thinking?

kyrieagle
06-10-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by c_block_lad
To be fair to SJ, it is his money that has borought Gray and paid his wages for 3 years, I would be a tad pissed off if I had been treated like he has been by Gray and his agents.
i agree

Gooders
06-10-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
Whatever happened to all that speculation that was knocking about on the boards the other day about first woman chairman, Noades in disguise etc? Is she a goer or just wishful thinking?

:eek:

RichieG
06-10-2003, 03:25 PM
Yes, I would be pissed off too, but I might have the circumspection not to go mouthing off to all and sundry about it when it just puts me in an even more difficult position when it comes to offloading the little wotsit!

Granada allover
06-10-2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
You mean an older, wiser, man who could get the club running properly, help us win promotion, stability in the Prem and the stadium sorted?

Nah, why would we want that, it's much more fun scrabbling around among the "also rans", being the real "clowntown of south London", mouthing off in the press and running vindictive campaigns for no gain, isn't it?

And that's the simple, painful truth.

Our beloved chairman claims so much high moral ground I wouldn't be surprised if he's getting nosebleeds.

Dodger
06-10-2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
You mean an older, wiser, man who could get the club running properly, help us win promotion, stability in the Prem and the stadium sorted ?
Nah, why would we want that, it's much more fun scrabbling around among the "also rans", being the real "clowntown of south London", mouthing off in the press and running vindictive campaigns for no gain, isn't it ?


If an older, wiser (and richer) man came along who could give us that then great. But until then, seeing as SJ is all we've got, I'm quite prepared to let him get on and do what he wants, and along the way yes, i'm enjoying the fun that comes with the Simon Jordan experience.

Maz
06-10-2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
Entertaining it may be to some, but I am sure the media are laughing all the way to their desks at such petulant naivety. With respect (;) !) Al, you make it sound the all-important defining issue - what the media think and say.

Frankly I couldn't give a fek what these people make of the matter. Their job is to fill pages of newspapers. It's not about being the arbiters of what is and is not good in the world of sport. Sod whether they laugh or not...

And if the media having a giggle at SJ upsets some Eagles fans, that maybe says more about the fans than it does SJ.

oz_da II
06-10-2003, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Dodger
i'm enjoying the fun that comes with the Simon Jordan experience.

I take it you haven't eaten one of Simon's burgers. :moo:

Dodger
06-10-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by oz_da II
I take it you haven't eaten one of Simon's burgers. :moo:

Actually, didn't he used to work at McDonalds? I remember some comment about winning burger flipping competitions or something.

Maybe we should get SJ working 'hands-on' with the catering staff, interacting with the fans and all that :moo:

El Aguila
06-10-2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Dodger
Actually, didn't he used to work at McDonalds? I remember some comment about winning burger flipping competitions or something.

Kept some of the clothes, I think.

oz_da II
06-10-2003, 03:51 PM
Judging by how cold those burgers are maybe Simon flips them in the morning before everyone shows up.

Saying that, I haven't eaten one since Tranmere Worthington Cup.
Never again.

Planet Palace
06-10-2003, 03:52 PM
SJ runs Palace as he would a Ltd co. As Chairman of CPFC ltd he would like to make sure everyone working for him holds the company in high regard. If what he(SJ) says is true- that he looked after the needs of JG and his family in the early stages of his employment with CPFC then I can understand SJ view and the lack of respect shown to him by JG.

I think he is doing to JG what JG did to him and his company and that is this- I don't want to be with this club if I could get something better.
SJ does not want him to play in our colours unless he has to and he has made this known as JG did when it suited him.

Good on you Simon. Julian-sorry but get that piece of humble pie out of the fridge as you are going to need it.

Richard
06-10-2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Dodger
That's it in a nutshell. Jordan just hates being messed about, it was the same with Bruce, he just wouldn't let it go.

Yes, but wha good did that actually do for CPFC ? Or, for that matter, football generally (it certainly didn't stop Pardew pulling the same stunt) ?

None at all.

Originally posted by Dodger
I quite like having SJ as a Chairman, it adds a bit of spice to the club. I'm sure a lot of people would prefer we had an older, wiser man who was never in the press and was not really known about. We just have to get used to the fact that we've got a hot head in charge, sometimes he makes some good decisions, sometime he doesn't. Never dull though is it

No doubt it is a bit of a larf for some, but I would prefer my club to have some dignity and pride about it.

RedStripe Eagle
06-10-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Ben H
Leave it out. Gray could have been an asset to us this season and we should have got behind him. What are the chances of that now?
what game are you watching son!!!!!! if the definition of an asset is someone who turns up when he likes and plays well only if it suits him/he's on telly/playing against a premiership side then you're right but if you read the oxford english dictionary this is not the defintion of an asset!! good player yes, arrogant little sh1te yes, waste of time yes, jordan should just get rid of him now, let charlton have him for £2.18 and a bag of chips!!!! :p

RedStripe Eagle
06-10-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Richard
Yes, but wha good did that actually do for CPFC ? Or, for that matter, football generally (it certainly didn't stop Pardew pulling the same stunt) ?

None at all.



No doubt it is a bit of a larf for some, but I would prefer my club to have some dignity and pride about it.
i wasn't born the last time a palace chairman had a bit of dignity and pride about him, so lets not clutch at straws dude!!!!!!!!;)

Shipp Ahoy!
06-10-2003, 04:20 PM
Behind SJ on this, fleeting thought as to him returning and providing a touch of class that might get us back up the table! But being realistic he doesn't want to be at Selhurst unless its for a cup game away.

Sunny Fan
06-10-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Granada allover
Our beloved chairman claims so much high moral ground I wouldn't be surprised if he's getting nosebleeds. Not sure that's from taking moral high ground, unless that's a euphemism I've not heard before.

Nobby
06-10-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Sunny Fan
Not sure that's from taking moral high ground, unless that's a euphemism I've not heard before.

Somebody's being a naughty boy, aren't they. Such malicious and salacious innuendo couldn't possibly mean anything, could it?

Or could it explain the erratic, blindingly stupid comments, such as those attributed to our esteemed chairman at the top of this thread?

Gooders
06-10-2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by El Aguila
Kept some of the clothes, I think.

:lux:

917L
06-10-2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Richard

No doubt it is a bit of a larf for some, but I would prefer my club to have some dignity and pride about it.

Not sure that uncle Ron or Goldberk covered the club in dignity or pride are you?

ammiller
06-10-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by nookiebear
Is this true?

It's interesting that

1. Gray did show a upsurge in form when Bruce took over.
2. Bruce showed no interest in signing him - even when he knew he could get him on the cheap.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
06-10-2003, 05:22 PM
We all seem to have forgotten that it was GRAY who refused to sign a new deal with us - the only conclusion being that he thought he could do better.

He has been on trial with a number of clubs, if they thought he was any good they would have snapped up this young player, regardless of all this twaddle about 150K or 500K. But that fact is that he obviously isn't good enough, or his wage demands are too high.

But, no.... it's all Simon Jordans fault again isn't it - poor little Julian Gray has been treated so badly by the nasty-wasty chairman.

ammiller
06-10-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by James

Having read Gray’s measured, gracious and sensible piece from his Website (above) and compared it to the immature, spiteful rant from our Chairman it seems clear to me that one of these two individuals needs to grow up fast … and it isn’t the player who is too young to go on a Bosman.

I don't believe for a minute James, that you honestly think those words on his website are self-penned....

In which case, why use it as a stick to beat Simon with?

Gooders
06-10-2003, 05:28 PM
I think it's called jealousy.

ammiller
06-10-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by James
Gray doesn't think he is worth as much as Jordan clearly does, and has urged our Chairman to value him sensibly.

If Gray really thinks he is good enough for the Premiership, and he has to go for a fee, then surely he is intelligent enough to realise that a "premiership" player such as he is would command more than 500k, evrn in the depressed market.

Gray is only saying that he is being overvalued because dropping the valuation would allow him to leave.

So, to sum up, his opinion that he is a premiership player is not consistent with his own self-valuation.

ammiller
06-10-2003, 05:48 PM
OK - here's what we do.

Charlton, Leeds and Blackburn think he's only worth 150k. A premiership club paying 150k for a player is doing so for any combination of the following

1) He's crap - that's all he's worth.
2) He's at the end of his career - not much milage and no chance of selling him on.
3) A gamble - i.e for every Geoff Thomas, there's an Andy Barnes and Stewart Massey.
4) You know you can get away with it.

I suspect the answer is a combination of 3 and 4.

So we sell him for nothing - but with add-ons linked to:

Appearences
Goals
International appearances
Percentage of transfer value.

It is possible that in the long run this may see Palace as being a club who agents can't •••• over.

Al From Bromley
07-10-2003, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by Maz
With respect (;) !) Al, you make it sound the all-important defining issue - what the media think and say.

Frankly I couldn't give a fek what these people make of the matter. Their job is to fill pages of newspapers. It's not about being the arbiters of what is and is not good in the world of sport. Sod whether they laugh or not...

And if the media having a giggle at SJ upsets some Eagles fans, that maybe says more about the fans than it does SJ.

I dont give a fek either Maz but some people do believe everything they read...and it can't be much fun going into work on a Monday morning and regularly getting the pee taken out of you by your colleagues for what Jordan has said over the weekend.

philaire
07-10-2003, 05:11 AM
Just out of curiosity, Jordan's rant seems to have been exclusive to Sports People, and I couldn't find it in their archive. Not picked up anywhere else - I assume he did actually say these words?

Mal Come Ally Son
07-10-2003, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by philaire
Just out of curiosity, Jordan's rant seems to have been exclusive to Sports People, and I couldn't find it in their archive. Not picked up anywhere else - I assume he did actually say these words?

Doues it matter if he didn't say them? He probably thought them. And if he didn't think them then Dominic probably did. And even if he didn't the most important think is that the burgers are still crap because of him. And the reason the burgers are crap is because we use that pre-frozen, processed, packaged offal they call meat. What we need is burgers made from 100% real beef. Get a lump of good old english beef and mince it up - luverly! Anyway - Jordan's cocked that up as well. We used to have a great mincer but now Jordan has had this rant Gray won't be interested in mincing for us any more. And who can blame him.

Jordan OUT - Mincer IN

Hedgie
07-10-2003, 06:33 AM
Wonder what would happen if JG decided to call Jordan's bluff and offer to sign the contract on the table?

The contract offer is clearly only there to keep us entitled to a transfer fee, the club actually do not want him any more and probably would not let him sign a new contract - Jordan's statement has proved that. If JG wants to be released on a free, the easiest thing to do would be to offer to sign.

RichieG
07-10-2003, 08:04 AM
I think you'll find the only contract offer on the table for Julian to sign is a week to week one, not the original 2/3/4 year version he could have had in May!

Gooders
07-10-2003, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by RichieG
I think you'll find the only contract offer on the table for Julian to sign is a week to week one, not the original 2/3/4 year version he could have had in May!

Yep.

I think we'll find that these week-to-week ones will stop being offered once SJ decides that £4010 per week is an expensive way to get his own back for perceived slights.

Interesting question. If you were loaded, how much would you be prepared to pay to make life miserable for someone you "can't stand"?

El Aguila
07-10-2003, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
Originally posted by RichieG

Interesting question. If you were loaded, how much would you be prepared to pay to make life miserable for someone you "can't stand"?
Good question. Nothing - but that may be why I'm not (loaded).

Gooders
07-10-2003, 08:25 AM
A mans wealth shouldn't be judged in strict financial terms. ;)

Richard
07-10-2003, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by 917L
Not sure that uncle Ron or Goldberk covered the club in dignity or pride are you?

Fair comment, although Noades did have his moments - I'm thinking of Wembley in May 1990 and the whole of the following season.

ClintsCrackPipe
07-10-2003, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
Originally posted by RichieG
Interesting question. If you were loaded, how much would you be prepared to pay to make life miserable for someone you "can't stand"?

Quite a lot potentially. :)

Gooders
07-10-2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Richard
Fair comment, although Noades did have his moments - I'm thinking of Wembley in May 1990 and the whole of the following season.

Great days indeed.

Probably the last person on my mind at Villa Park, Wembley and all those other places where we excelled the following season, was Ron Noades.

Coppell, Wright, Gray, Thomas, Salako, Bright, Pemberton...yes.

Richard
07-10-2003, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
Probably the last person on my mind at Villa Park, Wembley and all those other places where we excelled the following season, was Ron Noades.

Coppell, Wright, Gray, Thomas, Salako, Bright, Pemberton...yes.

Absolutely right. Which supports the belief that Chairmen should stay quietly in the background and provide the platform on which the football professionals (management and players) can perform

Gooders
07-10-2003, 08:39 AM
Good point, well made.

Richard
07-10-2003, 08:43 AM
Arigato domo

adrenalin john
07-10-2003, 09:15 AM
Joining late to this thread, while what Jordan has said can not be a positive to getting us out of this situation. I thoroughly agree with him and am proud that he has said it. In the long term it also means that players will think twice before shagging us about..

Gooders
07-10-2003, 09:40 AM
I doubt players think once, never mind twice - surrounded as most of them are by sycophants.

Granada allover
07-10-2003, 10:07 AM
Chairmen should stay quietly in the background and provide the platform on which the football professionals (management and players) can perform

Agreed. I don't know the name of Charlton's chairman...

Archiebald Leitch
07-10-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Granada allover
Chairmen should stay quietly in the background and provide the platform on which the football professionals (management and players) can perform

Agreed. I don't know the name of Charlton's chairman...

Richard Murray, his wife died after being stuck by a wasp.

glaziers fan
07-10-2003, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Al From Bromley
I hope Gray has sacked his agent. Scum of the earth misleading an impressionable young man, probably after his performance against Liverpool. Part of me feels sorry for him, he'll probably get to play very little football this season and he does, without doubt, have a talent.

Agree with that. If JG sacked his agent and apologised, he is only young, I would forgive him. Hasnt happened so far though!

glaziers fan
07-10-2003, 10:50 AM
•••• 200k or whatever. Despite what James may think, SJ is ruining Gray's career, and good for him. It is SJ's money that has been pumped into the club so it is up to him to do anything childish if he wants to. At the end of the day 200k is nothing for a club of the size of Palace. It is the cost of say 800 new season-ticket holders. It really is pennies in a 1st division footballing context. Believe me, Julian is going to regret the decision he made. If his agent is getting a cut in the wages he really is fcuked. I would not be surprised if JG never plays in the Premiership. Apologise Julian. Stop coming out with all this rubbish that you have done nothing wrong. Until JG apologises he will be frozen out. Quite simply if SJ can afford to lose 2m on Akinbiyi, he can afford to lose 200k to spite Gray. And it is only spiting him for being disloyal. But tell me this. It might be in our financial interests to say "ok Julian, we value you at 500k but we're gonna help you out and let you go for 100k even though you've been very disloyal", but certainly if I was chairman and could afford it I would not let Julian go for a penny less than 500k after the contempt he has shown for the club.

Chickereagle
07-10-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
At the end of the day 200k is nothing for a club of the size of Palace. It is the cost of say 800 new season-ticket holders. It really is pennies in a 1st division footballing context.
If that were true, why haven't we already signed the left sided player we clearly need?

We seemingly can't afford to do that until we get someone else off the payroll.Therefore 200K is clearly *something* to a club the size of Palace.

kestoneagle
07-10-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by ammiller
OK - here's what we do.

Charlton, Leeds and Blackburn think he's only worth 150k. A premiership club paying 150k for a player is doing so for any combination of the following

1) He's crap - that's all he's worth.
2) He's at the end of his career - not much milage and no chance of selling him on.
3) A gamble - i.e for every Geoff Thomas, there's an Andy Barnes and Stewart Massey.
4) You know you can get away with it.

I suspect the answer is a combination of 3 and 4.

So we sell him for nothing - but with add-ons linked to:

Appearences
Goals
International appearances
Percentage of transfer value.



Sounds like a plan Stan.

ammiller
07-10-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Archiebald Leitch
Richard Murray, his wife died after being stuck by a wasp.

Wasn't that Watford's chairman?

917L
07-10-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Richard
Fair comment, although Noades did have his moments - I'm thinking of Wembley in May 1990 and the whole of the following season.

Since when did Ron either play in or manage the team?

Sorry appears that Gooders has already dealt with this point:)

The Vicar
07-10-2003, 01:45 PM
If I were Julian, I'd fire my agent and have a meeting with SJ and SK in which I acknowledged that I had mishandled the situation. I would also be willing to make a commitment to Palace for the next 18 months if we could clear the air.

Richard
07-10-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by 917L
Sorry appears that Gooders has already dealt with this point:)

And I think I answered it !

James
07-10-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
•••• 200k or whatever. Despite what James may think, SJ is ruining Gray's career, and good for him.

Do you really believe this?

I think that Jordan is playing into Gray's hands.

Unless Gray is sold during the mid-season transfer window, he will be able to leave on a 'free' at the end of the Season and take for himself any premium value that should have come to Palace.

You are letting wishful thinking stand in the way of logical analysis. There are plenty of Clubs who will be willing to take him provided they don't have to pay a few hundred thousand to Palace.

Del Boy
07-10-2003, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by The Vicar
If I were Julian, I'd fire my agent and have a meeting with SJ and SK in which I acknowledged that I had mishandled the situation. I would also be willing to make a commitment to Palace for the next 18 months if we could clear the air.

I really don't understand the thinking behind these and similar comments on this thread (sorry Vicar - nothing against you, I just picked the most recent comment), although I have been greatly entertained by Glaziers Fan's increasingly extreme views as the thread develops - I'm sort of expecting him to demand that Julian Gray's head should be displayed on a pike at the end of the player's tunnel as a lesson to all other squad members, as they run out on to the pitch.

If Julian Gray was working in any other industry on a fixed term contract, at the end he would have a few simple choices:

1. Negotiate a new deal with his current employer (if he was willing to make an offer).

2. Walk away and seek an alternative employer.

3. Leave, sit around and do nothing.

Some people think that Julian has managed to combine points 2 and 3 since his contract expired. Some may even claim that he was quite good at point 3 when he was playing for us. However, the point is that he is perfectly within his rights to seek other employment.

The difference with Julian Gray and other fixed term employees is twofold:

1. People (fans) look at his situation differently because he happens to play for a football club and we all get emotionally involved with his workplace (ie Palace) in a way that none us get attached to an Estate Agent, Garage, Supermarket, IT Company, etc, etc.

2. He's under 24, and according to football's rules he can't leave without a compensation payment being made to his current employer.

Simon Jordan has decided that he wants compensation. He clearly doesn't want Julian Gray, as his £10 a week offer and his most recently quoted comments would indicate. He could have accepted an offer from Charlton or Leeds, and if he was looking at the best interests of the Club and his own wallet, a bit of simple maths would have told him that he was removing a liability from his wage bill of around £200k a year, plus whatever he could get in compensation. If that was, say £150k, he would have £350k to re-invest in the team, presumably on one or two players who could make a real contribution to building a promotion winning team. Alternatively, he could have a tantrum and keep on paying out the £200k per annum and miss out on compensation and deny Kember the chance to invest in what I thought Jordan wanted - promotion.

Why is Jordan so upset at Gray? I understand to a degree the fan's emotion because all of us would like to believe that every pro footballer looks at Palace in the same way we do. But very few players behave that way, and few have done in Palace's past - guys like Jim Cannon are an exception, not the rule. Jordan is our Chairman and even if he feels that Gray has ignored help he has given him in the past, surely he should rise above that and ask himself what is in the best interests of the business he is running. Chucking money down the drain to prove a point, which could be better invested elsewhere isn't the right way to do things.

I employ people occasionally on fixed term deals. I try and treat them as well as permanent members of my team. From time to time, I get the chance to offer them a permanent deal, but they don't always want to accept. In the end I have to respect their wishes and I adopt the view that it's better to have people in the team who give their best while they are there. If they choose to move on, then fine, that's their call. I get someone in who wants to join the team, and they take their chance out there with all the other job-seekers. If they can't find a new job, or have an inflated sense of their own ability or have taken bad advice, they'll find that out soon enough and it becomes their problem, not mine. They can sort themselves out or take it up with agent/recruitment agency that told then a better deal was round the corner. What's wrong with that?

Time to move on Simon!

ElwissAtMemphis
07-10-2003, 03:17 PM
Pages and pages of this stuff and nobody has confirmed the crucial fact; has another team made a concrete offer for Gray? All I've heard reported is Reid and Souness making excuses about budgets and squad sizes which sound to me like a tactful way of saying "he ain't good enough" which is hard to argue with if you watched a significant amount of Palace's league matches last season.

Somebody must know. If somebody had made a genuine £150K offer, surely it would have been accepted.

James
07-10-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Del Boy
I really don't understand ................... [SNIP!]

Blimey.

I read this all the way through, waiting for the funny bit, but I think I must have missed it.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
07-10-2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by James
...There are plenty of Clubs who will be willing to take him provided they don't have to pay a few hundred thousand to Palace... You are blinkered by your hatred of Jordan (and I have said before why I think you hate him so much). Cover these angles if you would be so kind...

How do you know there are 'plenty of clubs' willing to take him. Which ones are they?

Do you know what his wage demands are? Could this be a factor in Gray failing to be signed for another club?

Do you know what, if any, firm offers have been made for him? By who and how much?

Do you know what Palace would accept for him?

Was it Jordan's fault that Gray didn't sign his new contract in the first place?

Richard
07-10-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
Pages and pages of this stuff and nobody has confirmed the crucial fact; has another team made a concrete offer for Gray? All I've heard reported is Reid and Souness making excuses about budgets and squad sizes which sound to me like a tactful way of saying "he ain't good enough" which is hard to argue with if you watched a significant amount of Palace's league matches last season.

Somebody must know. If somebody had made a genuine £150K offer, surely it would have been accepted.

Me too. I'm sure I read in one tabloid that either Leeds or Charlton had offered £250k, but that Palace wanted £500k. However that was only paper talk ...

Del Boy
07-10-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by James
Blimey.

I read this all the way through, waiting for the funny bit, but I think I must have missed it.

You ba5tard!!!!

:)

I thought I'd try and prove that I can do other things for a change!

Next week I'll try and make a commercial property contract look funny, although I'm told that you do that for a living????

selhurstparkflyer
07-10-2003, 05:05 PM
I have only just read this and if what I shall say has already been said, then apologies.

Julian Gray has been made to look rather silly- 'I'm better then Palace but nobody else wants me'.

It would have very big of SJ to welcome back this highly talented player. Nothing is gained by publicly humiliating him. Everything is to be gained by offering him another chance- another chance to play first team football and up his sale price (if SJ was sensible he would offer him an extension to his contract).

Even without a contract extension, he has plenty to offer this season and it is not difficult to convince a young man that a successful seaon in Div 1 and a freebie at the end, will up his value considerably- far more than if plays in the reserves or not at all.

Palace too would gain from having a highly skilled player on their books and one with a good deal of experience to pass onto younger members of the squad as to the realities of football wages today.

What a shame.