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DocSavage
15-10-2003, 01:12 PM
Dear Mr Jordan

Well here we are not far into a bright new season with a new manager and the eternal bright hopes from the team’s loyal supporters.

But alas what has befallen us?

At the playing level?

Playing some of the worst football I have personally seen in 35 years of watching the team.

Displaying less enthusiasm from the players than I can ever remember witnessing in a professional team at any level.

Showing such individual lack of attention that it is surprising that the players can find the right clothes peg when they return to the dressing room.

In the ground?

Suffering some truly awful conditions (such as paddling through urine to get to the washrooms, inadequate washroom facilities etc, and inadequate and unsavoury catering experiences) that one feels inclined to shower on returning home.

Experiencing an A/V system that belongs in the Ark.

Receiving patronising and insulting treatment from untrained spotty stewards.

From the Board?

Apart from satisfying your own family esteem and sense of self importance what precisely are you doing for the club that could not have been achieved more stylishly by allowing it to fold 3 years ago?

Jack Regan
15-10-2003, 01:39 PM
However, Mr. Jordan, notwithstanding the above, I fully appreciate that the list of potential buyers for the club hasn't changed in the last 3 years.

As was the case 3 years ago, you remain the clubs best hope for remaining solvent, and to continue trading.

Despite constant whinging, sniping, moaning, and general abuse from certain quarters, rest assured that you have the support of the majority of Crystal Palace fans.

We wish you well in your pursuit of success for our club.

Yours sincerely,

J.Regan
on behalf of 10,000 Palace fans

ammiller
15-10-2003, 01:44 PM
Dear Simon,

Thank you for saving my club. Especially when no-one else was able to.

I remain sir, your humble servant.

AMMILLER

DocSavage
15-10-2003, 01:47 PM
This is "saving"?

James
15-10-2003, 01:49 PM
… although when I say you have the support of the majority of fans, perhaps I should qualify that.

Most of us think you are a bit of a •••• and that many of the decisions you have made to date have been ridiculous (including without limitation your dismissal of Coppell; your appointment of practically every manager since; your appointment of your semiliterate brother as Managing Director; your purchase of several dreadful players and more especially the contracts negotiated with them). Most of us have been having fun at your expense reading your Programme Notes and the several interviews you have given to various newspapers.

Despite all that, we hope you remain solvent and keep your faith in the Club, because quite honestly there isn’t any alternative is there? Depressing isn’t it?

PS. Love the new beard.

Nelson Muntz
15-10-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by James
… although when I say you have the support of the majority of fans, perhaps I should qualify that.

Most of us think you are a bit of a •••• and that many of the decisions you have made to date have been ridiculous (including without limitation your dismissal of Coppell; your appointment of practically every manager since; your appointment of your semiliterate brother as Managing Director; your purchase of several dreadful players and more especially the contracts negotiated with them). Most of us have been having fun at your expense reading your Programme Notes and the several interviews you have given to various newspapers.

Despite all that, we hope you remain solvent and keep your faith in the Club, because quite honestly there isn’t any alternative is there? Depressing isn’t it?

PS. Love the new beard.
:p

DocSavage
15-10-2003, 01:52 PM
OK I accept these warm additions but I just feel in a state of slow strangulation with no light in sight!

calne eagle
15-10-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by DocSavage
Playing some of the worst football I have personally seen in 35 years of watching the team.


Surely the Mullery years were worse?

Crystal Eagle1
15-10-2003, 02:04 PM
Well Said James, Jordan is ruining this club, Ok i know he saved us and all but look at some facts here, IMAGINE all the money spent on transfers and stuff with differenet managers the crap signings uust THINK if Steve Coppell was in charge still and he had 20 million or whatever Jordan has spent on signings i could put a pretty safe bet on that we would now be a premiership club, Coppell did no worse in the administration years than Francis, Smith did together and look what those two managers had to spend 1.5 million on Rubins 2.5 million on Akinbiyi 750k on Danny Granville 500k on Jamie Pollock that alone comes to 5.25 million pounds and look where those players have gone Granville has vanished into the reserves Badbiyi is a reject who went for Free, Rubins was never really given a fair go but still how we paid that sort of money for him i never no, and as for Jamie Pollock well shall i say more

Face it Jordan Bum Boys your hero is a complete ••••up, 5.25 million alone i think at the time Coppell could have done a miracle job with that yet alone all the other rejects who have come in aswell

macstar
15-10-2003, 02:09 PM
Dear Mr Jordan,

Please never speak in public again.

Thanks

Flappy Chicken
15-10-2003, 02:12 PM
Please add:

Is there any chance we can see your new Mrs naked?

Ruskin Old Boy
15-10-2003, 02:12 PM
Dear Simon

The lawyer that sits near you doesn't represent all Palace fans but he does have a few good ideas about running the club.

He could be free for lunch soon and will be happy to bring along his friends* so that they can give the wisdom of their not inconsiderable football experience.

I remain

Your 'umble servant

James d'Ewhurst

PS * = Uncle Ron and Mr Lim

Justin
15-10-2003, 02:13 PM
After all whenever Sir Steve had money to spend it was always spent so wisely - Gabbiadini, Ismael, Taylor, Bodin, Emblem.....

Please don't point out if any of these were not actually signed by Coppell. My point is he was a fantastic manager with limited resources at his disposal but give him a few pounds to spend and he was usually useless.

Trolley
15-10-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Ruskin Old Boy
Dear Simon

The lawyer that sits near you does have a few good ideas about running the club.



This indeed is a matter for "Conjecture".

:hmph:

Holmesdale
15-10-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Crystal Eagle1
Well Said James, Jordan is ruining this club, Ok i know he saved us and all but look at some facts here, IMAGINE all the money spent on transfers and stuff with differenet managers the crap signings uust THINK if Steve Coppell was in charge still and he had 20 million or whatever Jordan has spent on signings i could put a pretty safe bet on that we would now be a premiership club, Coppell did no worse in the administration years than Francis, Smith did together and look what those two managers had to spend 1.5 million on Rubins 2.5 million on Akinbiyi 750k on Danny Granville 500k on Jamie Pollock that alone comes to 5.25 million pounds and look where those players have gone Granville has vanished into the reserves Badbiyi is a reject who went for Free, Rubins was never really given a fair go but still how we paid that sort of money for him i never no, and as for Jamie Pollock well shall i say more

Face it Jordan Bum Boys your hero is a complete ••••up, 5.25 million alone i think at the time Coppell could have done a miracle job with that yet alone all the other rejects who have come in aswell

.....and this post is constructive ..... how?

AshfordianEagle
15-10-2003, 02:16 PM
Dear Mr J,
Further to earlier posts, do you actually regret parting company with Mr Coppell? I am keen to know.
Also, if you are intending to stay around, what are your plans for a ground for the team you have brought?

Ashfordian Eagle.

AshfordianEagle
15-10-2003, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Justin
After all whenever Sir Steve had money to spend it was always spent so wisely - Gabbiadini

Yet this guy is still scoring for fun even last weekend. He seems to be on the scoresheet most weekends, maybe Palace just wasn't right for him.

sydnsteve
15-10-2003, 02:18 PM
The problem with the 'you saved our club' is that although true, his attitude is now leading to its slow destruction.
However, I don't agree that this is the worst football in 35 years (well, 17 in my case), last year under TF was worse, although i do agree that SK is doing his best to get to the same level, very unfortunately.

Justin
15-10-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by AshfordianEagle
Yet this guy is still scoring for fun even last weekend. He seems to be on the scoresheet most weekends, maybe Palace just wasn't right for him.

Not sure where he is these days but it is certainly the lower leagues. I dare so Shipperly might get a few in them, as has Leon Mckenzie. Hardly proof that we failed to get the best out of him.

DocSavage
15-10-2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by calne eagle
Surely the Mullery years were worse?

No refused to watch it while he was there

Trolley
15-10-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by AshfordianEagle
Dear Mr J,
Further to earlier posts, do you actually regret parting company with Mr Coppell? I am keen to know.


To set the record "Straight" it was "Mr Coppell" who parted company from the Chairman. Our erstwhile manager concluded that his working relationship with "Mr Jordan" would NOT be to his liking and hence he "Engineered" the process which culminated in his departure.

Batsta
15-10-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by James
… although when I say you have the support of the majority of fans, perhaps I should qualify that.

Most of us think you are a bit of a •••• and that many of the decisions you have made to date have been ridiculous (including without limitation your dismissal of Coppell; your appointment of practically every manager since; your appointment of your semiliterate brother as Managing Director; your purchase of several dreadful players and more especially the contracts negotiated with them). Most of us have been having fun at your expense reading your Programme Notes and the several interviews you have given to various newspapers.

Despite all that, we hope you remain solvent and keep your faith in the Club, because quite honestly there isn’t any alternative is there? Depressing isn’t it?

PS. Love the new beard.

Hey James, why don't you make an "easy" few million quid?

You could buy & run the club then :rolleyes:

AshfordianEagle
15-10-2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Justin
Not sure where he is these days but it is certainly the lower leagues. I dare so Shipperly might get a few in them, as has Leon Mckenzie. Hardly proof that we failed to get the best out of him.

I think he's at Hartlepool

Trolley
15-10-2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by AshfordianEagle
I think he's at Hartlepool

"Mr Gabbiadini" is indeed "Plying his trade" at Hartlepool.

Last season our erstwhile striker was the Top Scorer for "Northampton" with 12 League goals to his name.

James
15-10-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Batsta
Hey James, why don't you make an "easy" few million quid?

Been there - done that.

You could buy & run the club then :rolleyes:

No bloody chance. I wouldn't want ungrateful twats like me criticising my every move.

Archiebald Leitch
15-10-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by James


No bloody chance. I wouldn't want ungrateful twats like me criticising my every move.

...and ignoring the dress code!

James
15-10-2003, 02:54 PM
Quite. I would insist upon jeans and trainers.

GUCCI Eagle
15-10-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by James
Been there - done that.





Will the real David Brent please stand up. except in a seated are, because THAT's against the rules

Trolley
15-10-2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by James
Quite. I would insist upon jeans and trainers.

And perhaps NOTHING else.

:)

Batsta
15-10-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Trolley
And perhaps NOTHING else.

:)

A designer beard perhaps?

GUCCI Eagle
15-10-2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Trolley
And perhaps NOTHING else.

:)

Doddering old perve

Trolley
15-10-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by GUCCI Eagle
Doddering old perve

I certainly would NOT "Categorise" "Wor James" as "OLD".

Mal Come Ally Son
15-10-2003, 04:14 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Batsta
Hey James, why don't you make an "easy" few million quid?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Been there - done that.



Hey James - Harry Enfield would be proud (I got loadsamoney - doin up the 'ouse)

calne eagle
15-10-2003, 04:20 PM
He's considerably richer than yoww.

Jordan's Jacket
15-10-2003, 04:25 PM
Money certainly does not maketh the man...I think we have a couple of excellent examples which prove this to be correct

Jordan's Jacket
15-10-2003, 04:33 PM
Sorry I forgot to add that research has revealed that apart from outwardly commenting on ones own financial worth as being extremely crass it tends to coincide with the possession of particularly small genetalia. James can you confirm this to be true in your expereince?

James
15-10-2003, 04:36 PM
Quite true m'lud.

Jordan's Jacket
15-10-2003, 04:40 PM
In which case you're not as big a di#k as I thought

pepper
15-10-2003, 04:42 PM
For what it's worth, if Jordan can put a stop to 'London Calling' - I will be quite happy to re-assess his reign in a positive light.

Could do with some film trailers on the Jumbo-tron too.

Trolley
15-10-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Jordan's Jacket
Sorry I forgot to add that research has revealed that apart from outwardly commenting on ones own financial worth as being extremely crass it tends to coincide with the possession of particularly small genetalia. James can you confirm this to be true in your expereince?

The "Learned Lawyer" has admitted that far from possessing "Meat and Two Veg" he has been "Blessed" with a "Shrimp and two peas".

:)

Del Gland
15-10-2003, 04:54 PM
Dear Mr Jordan,

When does the football start?

917L
15-10-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by pepper
For what it's worth, if Jordan can put a stop to 'London Calling' - I will be quite happy to re-assess his reign in a positive light.
.

put a stop to it! are you insane? it was certainly the only entertaining point of last night and is one of the truly great records.

elgin eagle
15-10-2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Jack Regan
However, Mr. Jordan, notwithstanding the above, I fully appreciate that the list of potential buyers for the club hasn't changed in the last 3 years.

As was the case 3 years ago, you remain the clubs best hope for remaining solvent, and to continue trading.

Despite constant whinging, sniping, moaning, and general abuse from certain quarters, rest assured that you have the support of the majority of Crystal Palace fans.

We wish you well in your pursuit of success for our club.

Yours sincerely,

J.Regan
on behalf of 10,000 Palace fans

Please try to ignore and rise above most of the sniping you may read about on this site, most of it is based solely on jealousy and a belief that the snipers can do a better job than you.

You have spent more on Crystal Palace than any man in history, and while results on the pitch haven't been the best, at least hopefully you will be able to negotiate a deal soon to move the club to a brand new Stadium in Crystal Palace, away from the rented, unkempt ground which is badly in need of repairs to toilets, pigeon shooting, rat infestation removal and other issues, all due to a general lack of investment by the owner, a Mr Ron Noades, whose lack of investment you generally seem to get the blame for.

I hope you are soon able to ram the words of these detractors back down their throats when we have a successful team and own our ground again.

Regards

James
15-10-2003, 05:42 PM
... or make that 'based on a belief that anyone can do a better job than you'

Looking forward to the throat ramming thing.

Still love that beard. Did you grow it all by yourself?

Jordan's Jacket
15-10-2003, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by James
... or make that 'based on a belief that anyone can do a better job than you'

Looking forward to the throat ramming thing.

Still love that beard. Did you grow it all by yourself?

Sorry, please ignore my earlier comments about my views on James. Small man's complex is one hell of a burden

James
15-10-2003, 07:40 PM
Thank you for being so understanding.

AndyChapman
15-10-2003, 08:05 PM
Your all tits

James
15-10-2003, 08:11 PM
You're

See me after School.

AndyChapman
15-10-2003, 08:14 PM
Shut up

Chobham Eagle
15-10-2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Trolley
To set the record "Straight" it was "Mr Coppell" who parted company from the Chairman. Our erstwhile manager concluded that his working relationship with "Mr Jordan" would NOT be to his liking and hence he "Engineered" the process which culminated in his departure.

Quite how did he "engineer" this process Trolley?

ElwissAtMemphis
15-10-2003, 09:58 PM
I recall that most of the years before you arrived, there were no bars but now, although you can get a drink virtually anywhere in the ground, sometimes you have to queue up for as much as 5 minutes and once my mate Steve's glass was a bit dirty ... DISGRACEFUL !

Back in the good old days, the variety of food available included Wagonwheels, cartons of orange-coloured water and greyish coloured meat soaked in oniony water masquerading as hamburgers but now my Wimpey wasn't piping hot and fries didn't have enough salt on them ... SACK THE BOARD.

I also prefered being able to have to bring my own radio into into the ground to hear the half time scores but now that we've got that big screen and improved the speakers; well it's just a big distraction and the money would have been better spent on ... something ... I'm not sure what but it's MY BUSINESS WHAT YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY ON AND I SAY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SPENT ON ... something else.

And another thing ... back in those halcyon days, the only time money would be invested in players was if the fans paid for them ourselves via some rip-off private lottery ... failing that, Mr Noades could walk off with ownership of our stadium in return for ... ermmm ... well, not very much now that I come to think about it. Now, you've turned up and have had the bare-faced cheek to stump up some of your own money in an attempt to strengthen our squad ... YOU BÀSTARD !

All in all, it's been a disgrace. How I miss those afternoons standing and getting soaked with 4,000 other people watching us draw with Carlisle. If only Uncle Ron could come back and turn back the clock to how things were, we'd all be happy. I suppose part of the problem could be that our club has had to pay out an outrageous amount of annual rental every year in return for a one-off negligible cash investment 20 years ago but lets not worry about that. In fact, what if I help the ex-Chairman screw a few extra thousand out of the club ? ... THAT'LL HELP. (IT'LL CERTAINLY HELP BOTH OUR BANK ACCOUNTS)

Toodle Pip ... UP THE PALACE !

DocSavage
15-10-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
I recall that most of the years before you arrived, there were no bars but now, although you can get a drink virtually anywhere in the ground, sometimes you have to queue up for as much as 5 minutes and once my mate Steve's glass was a bit dirty ... DISGRACEFUL !

Bars alll over the palce till noades and legislation

Back in the good old days, the variety of food available included Wagonwheels, cartons of orange-coloured water and greyish coloured meat soaked in oniony water masquerading as hamburgers but now my Wimpey wasn't piping hot and fries didn't have enough salt on them ... SACK THE BOARD.

what abot ray's pies and sausage rolls?

I also prefered being able to have to bring my own radio into into the ground to hear the half time scores but now that we've got that big screen and improved the speakers; well it's just a big distraction and the money would have been better spent on ... something ... I'm not sure what but it's MY BUSINESS WHAT YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY ON AND I SAY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SPENT ON ... something else.

Always remember half time scores, but was never really interested

And another thing ... back in those halcyon days, the only time money would be invested in players was if the fans paid for them ourselves via some rip-off private lottery ... failing that, Mr Noades could walk off with ownership of our stadium in return for ... ermmm ... well, not very much now that I come to think about it. Now, you've turned up and have had the bare-faced cheek to stump up some of your own money in an attempt to strengthen our squad ... YOU BÀSTARD !

What squad strengthening would that be?

All in all, it's been a disgrace. How I miss those afternoons standing and getting soaked with 4,000 other people watching us draw with Carlisle. If only Uncle Ron could come back and turn back the clock to how things were, we'd all be happy. I suppose part of the problem could be that our club has had to pay out an outrageous amount of annual rental every year in return for a one-off negligible cash investment 20 years ago but lets not worry about that. In fact, what if I help the ex-Chairman screw a few extra thousand out of the club ? ... THAT'LL HELP. (IT'LL CERTAINLY HELP BOTH OUR BANK ACCOUNTS)

Noades was machiavellian jordans incompetent only the club suffers comparing a slug with a viper is irrelevant

Toodle Pip ... UP THE PALACE !

What you been drinking?

Kirby
15-10-2003, 11:45 PM
Dear Simon,
Why do you insist on bleaching your hair when it makes you look like such a raving mincer?

James
16-10-2003, 05:12 AM
Elwiss does have a point. Even with the Club as run down as it is, facilities are far, far better than they were in the 1970s and 1980s when you were lucky if you could buy a bovril and a packet of nuts.

However, things have moved on since then, and most of us compare our Club (and its facilities) to other clubs in the division - and many of those in divisions below us - where the catering and general standards seem much better.

These days we have far more choice outside the ground and many of us prefer to use the bars and fast-food shops in the area than wait until we get the Selhurst Park. That isn't good business for the Club.

The Club could and should be doing far better than it is.

pepper
16-10-2003, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by 917L
put a stop to it! are you insane? it was certainly the only entertaining point of last night and is one of the truly great records.

I wouldn't argue over your 'truly great records' label necessarily. But I reckon there could be a psychological link between playing a record over and over again, and the whole monotonous experience that is a Palace home match just now. Let's face it - it's not as if the MC/DJ/PA is trying to plug an upcoming tune and might be excused this shameless excess. London Calling is 14 years old now. There's a world of records out there and you never know, the odd 'I got you' from Split Enz or 'Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft' from the Carpenters might swing it for us. My god, even 'Seasons in the Sun' or 'Matchstick Men and Matchstick Cats and Dogs'.

Of course, I couldn't care less about music if the team were vaguely exciting to watch - but as they are not, there has to be another reason. I think it's London Calling (on the plus side, there's no DJ Otzi anymore).

Morgan
16-10-2003, 06:54 AM
Great post Elwiss !
I do think that we sometimes forget how bad the facilities were before Jordan took over. In fact I believe they were an awful lot worse.
However, James makes a fair point in that the supporter now expects (and is entitled to) a better service than in years gone by.
I can't help that think that part of the reason why the ground looks so shabby is due to a complete lack of investment over the past 20 years and that can't all be the fault of Jordan.

Moving on, what's the point of these threads ! Some people think Jordan is a •••• whereas others worship the ground he walks on ("because he saved the club"). The views are very polarised. The same people slag him off and the same people support him. What's the ••••••• point ?
Bad luck people - he's in charge. There's no-one around to replace him. If he walks away, Palace disappear. Love him or hate him, unfortunetly we're stuck with him.

Now then - where's that thread about "19%" ?

Mal Come Ally Son
16-10-2003, 08:22 AM
Well said Morgan - and even better said Elwiss

Mal Come Ally Son
16-10-2003, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by calne eagle
He's considerably richer than yoww.

Maybe - maybe not.

I know. Let's a have a competition to see who has the biggest wedge!

Richard
16-10-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
I recall that most of the years before you arrived, there were no bars but now, although you can get a drink virtually anywhere in the ground, sometimes you have to queue up for as much as 5 minutes and once my mate Steve's glass was a bit dirty ... DISGRACEFUL !

Back in the good old days, the variety of food available included Wagonwheels, cartons of orange-coloured water and greyish coloured meat soaked in oniony water masquerading as hamburgers but now my Wimpey wasn't piping hot and fries didn't have enough salt on them ... SACK THE BOARD.

I also prefered being able to have to bring my own radio into into the ground to hear the half time scores but now that we've got that big screen and improved the speakers; well it's just a big distraction and the money would have been better spent on ... something ... I'm not sure what but it's MY BUSINESS WHAT YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY ON AND I SAY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SPENT ON ... something else.

And another thing ... back in those halcyon days, the only time money would be invested in players was if the fans paid for them ourselves via some rip-off private lottery ... failing that, Mr Noades could walk off with ownership of our stadium in return for ... ermmm ... well, not very much now that I come to think about it. Now, you've turned up and have had the bare-faced cheek to stump up some of your own money in an attempt to strengthen our squad ... YOU BÀSTARD !

All in all, it's been a disgrace. How I miss those afternoons standing and getting soaked with 4,000 other people watching us draw with Carlisle. If only Uncle Ron could come back and turn back the clock to how things were, we'd all be happy. I suppose part of the problem could be that our club has had to pay out an outrageous amount of annual rental every year in return for a one-off negligible cash investment 20 years ago but lets not worry about that. In fact, what if I help the ex-Chairman screw a few extra thousand out of the club ? ... THAT'LL HELP. (IT'LL CERTAINLY HELP BOTH OUR BANK ACCOUNTS)

Toodle Pip ... UP THE PALACE !

I have to say that your hatred of the Noades era is every bit as irrationally vitriolic as James' regarding Jordan. Whilst yours is an amusing post, I have to ask the following questions:-

Aside from the Red'n'Blue bar, where are the new bars opened by Jordan of which you speak ?

Whilst the catering has improved somewhat, enough BBS threads exist to suggest that things aren't as rosy as you suggest and nowhere near the standard of most of our competitor clubs. Do you think the catering is run well at the club ?

Was the jumbotron technology available at prices affordable to First Division Clubs when Noades was Chairman ? Did any of the clubs of similar size to Palace have one ?

Are you seriously suggesting that the only transfer fees paid in the Noades era were from the Lifeline proceeds ? And can you not accept that the purchasing of players was ever so slightly more effective back in those days ?

It's disappointing that you only remember the dark days when Noades was attempting to re-build the club. Have you forgotten the three promotions to the top flight and the cup runs all achieved by a club operating within its own trading income ?

As for the rent, we've done that one to death, but where is your evidence to suggest that it is outrageous ? What is the rent ?

GUCCI Eagle
16-10-2003, 08:49 AM
I reckon they should play some Scooter before the game. His latest song is brilliant.

Morgan
16-10-2003, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by Richard
I have to say that your hatred of the Noades era is every bit as irrationally vitriolic as James' regarding Jordan. Whilst yours is an amusing post, I have to ask the following questions:-

Aside from the Red'n'Blue bar, where are the new bars opened by Jordan of which you speak ?

Whilst the catering has improved somewhat, enough BBS threads exist to suggest that things aren't as rosy as you suggest and nowhere near the standard of most of our competitor clubs. Do you think the catering is run well at the club ?

Was the jumbotron technology available at prices affordable to First Division Clubs when Noades was Chairman ? Did any of the clubs of similar size to Palace have one ?

Are you seriously suggesting that the only transfer fees paid in the Noades era were from the Lifeline proceeds ? And can you not accept that the purchasing of players was ever so slightly more effective back in those days ?

It's disappointing that you only remember the dark days when Noades was attempting to re-build the club. Have you forgotten the three promotions to the top flight and the cup runs all achieved by a club operating within its own trading income ?

As for the rent, we've done that one to death, but where is your evidence to suggest that it is outrageous ? What is the rent ?

I think these are valid counter points to those raised by Elwiss.

I would add, that Selhurst Park looks the state it is due to very minimal investment over a period of 20 years. During this time many clubs starting to invest in their grounds and facilities. Most of the clubs (namely Notts County) must have been in a far worse financial state than Palace. Sadly, this lack of investment has meant that, for facilities, we simply cannot compete with even our near neighbours at Millwall and Charlton. It does seem slighly ironic that at this time, our chairman, through various companies, had ownership of the ground

Del Gland
16-10-2003, 09:20 AM
Elwiss has forgotten how we have moved on from getting your shoes splashed in the urinals to getting the full frontal splashback effect we get now

Ruskin Old Boy
16-10-2003, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by Del Gland
Elwiss has forgotten how we have moved on from getting your shoes splashed in the urinals to getting the full frontal splashback effect we get now

I still say it was better when we p*ssed against the wall against the back of the Holmesdale. :moo:

ElwissAtMemphis
16-10-2003, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Richard
I have to say that your hatred of the Noades era is every bit as irrationally vitriolic as James' regarding Jordan. Whilst yours is an amusing post, I have to ask the following questions ...


I wasn't being 100% serious ... I it was a supposed to be a joke. It looked funnier after several pints of Stella last night than it does this morning I must admit.

Bars and jumbotrons aside, yes I am seriously suggesting that Noades invested far less money than he could/should have to consolidate the achievements of Steve Coppell (not Mr Noades as some people seem to believe). Wouldn't it have been a nice gesture following the 90/91 3rd place finish if Mr Noades had reinvested just a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of pounds that Altonwood had already gained from CPFC. Just a wee bit more than Lee Sinnott ? No ?

And regarding the rent, I've asked countless times before but the people with access to the figures are strangely reticent about giving an answer. Tell me (A) the amount Altonwood paid CPFC for Selhurst and (B) the amount Altonwood have subsequently received from CPFC in rental ... go on, just have a rough guess. Was that deal in CPFC's best interests ? Did the directors that agreed it do more of a favour to CPFC or to Altonwood ?

Richard
16-10-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Morgan
I would add, that Selhurst Park looks the state it is due to very minimal investment over a period of 20 years. During this time many clubs starting to invest in their grounds and facilities. Most of the clubs (namely Notts County) must have been in a far worse financial state than Palace. Sadly, this lack of investment has meant that, for facilities, we simply cannot compete with even our near neighbours at Millwall and Charlton. It does seem slighly ironic that at this time, our chairman, through various companies, had ownership of the ground

I would blame neither Noades nor Jordan for this - Goldberg is the real culprit. To his credit, Noades rebuilt the Holmesdale (into an impressive stand, even if the shivering concourse facilities could be better). Noades had also started work on the Main Stand development, but his antagonist relationship with Croydon Council had stalled this over a dispute over planning consent with relation to light access for the houses behind it at the Holmesdale Road end.

Unfortunately, the timing of the dramatic improvement in football's finances (allowing many clubs to improve their ground facilities), coincided with Goldbergs reign as club chairman / owner. Goldberg completely over-reached himself in buying the club and thus did not complete the purchase of the freehold of Selhurst Park as had been agreed with Noades. During his tenure (and the subsequent administration), very little improvement took place, just as many clubs were using the money flowing into football to significantly improve their own grounds, or even build new stadia.

When Jordan took over, he was faced with the difficult decision of whether to purchase the freehold from Noades, but having made various ill-advised scathing comments about Noades during his early days in charge, unsurprisingly Jordan found Noades somewhat uncooperative when it came to negotiating a sale price. Jordan invested in developing the Red'n'Blue Bar, making cosmetic changes to other bars and installing the jumbotron, but once he established that he wasn't going to get the freehold cheap, it made little sense (even if he was prepared to invest the cash) in carrying out any significant development work on a stadium for which he only had a shrinking ten year lease.

One can only presume that Jordan has been busily working on a plan for a new stadiium elsewhere, but there is a worrying report in the Telegraph this morning that the NSC is not going to be used in the event that London wins the 2112 Olympics, although the powers-that-be have apparently earmarked £1.8 million to update the existing facilities. However, I very much doubt whether that would be anything like sufficient for the venue to be used as a football stadium.

I hope that Jordan has written his own road map ...

James
16-10-2003, 10:32 AM
I have answered this question several times. The amount of rent varies (and the exact sum is confidential between Palace and Altonwood - but it is a rent agreed to by Simon Jordan before he took over the Club... the Lease is a new one, completed on the day of Jordan's purchase).

Altonwood paid the higher of two independent valuation figures prepared by the Club. I have seen one of these valuations. It was prepared by one of the biggest and most reputable Firms in London. At the time, the price was a fair market value.

Of course it looks cheap now - but so does the flat I purchased for £14,900 in the same year (that Flat is now worth about £175,000).

Tim
16-10-2003, 10:34 AM
This club is to big to go bust someone would buy it! and I for one really hope they do. SJ has lost it if he is still talking about premiership football and excellent facilities. This club is now going backwards its time for a change dont be so afraid you lot.

James
16-10-2003, 10:46 AM
Tim, you are so wrong.

I seriously doubt whether anyone would buy the Club in its present situation (with only six years left on an excluded tenancy; huge operating losses; and debts piling up).

No mate - if Jordan does decide to pack up and go, it may well be the end of the Club.

Justin
16-10-2003, 10:49 AM
The fact it is so 'big' means it is more likely that we could go bust. The business plan of Noades' time has changed. Picking up players on the cheap from the lower league and moulding them into a cohesive unit, capable of better things is not possible. Furthermore the idea you can sell one star every so often to sustain your losses is not viable. The costs of running the club are huge, the revenue associated with it rapidly diminishing.

Richard
16-10-2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
I wasn't being 100% serious ... I it was a supposed to be a joke. It looked funnier after several pints of Stella last night than it does this morning I must admit.

I did acknowledge its humour, but then I'm certainly not one to cast stones about the inadvisability of attempting (especially written) humour after having had a few !

Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
Bars and jumbotrons aside, yes I am seriously suggesting that Noades invested far less money than he could/should have to consolidate the achievements of Steve Coppell (not Mr Noades as some people seem to believe). Wouldn't it have been a nice gesture following the 90/91 3rd place finish if Mr Noades had reinvested just a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of pounds that Altonwood had already gained from CPFC. Just a wee bit more than Lee Sinnott ? No ?

Whilst I wouldn't want to take anything away from Coppell, I do think that those who refuse to acknowledge the "platform" Noades built for Coppell to perform on are somewhat churlish, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
And regarding the rent, I've asked countless times before but the people with access to the figures are strangely reticent about giving an answer. Tell me (A) the amount Altonwood paid CPFC for Selhurst and (B) the amount Altonwood have subsequently received from CPFC in rental ... go on, just have a rough guess. Was that deal in CPFC's best interests ? Did the directors that agreed it do more of a favour to CPFC or to Altonwood ?

I honestly don't know any of these figures, and we've done the "best interests" debate to death. Ultimately nobody seems able to prove this either way. The only thing I do know is that Jordan said very soon after his takeover that he was perfectly happy with the lease deal Gerry Lim had done with Noades (one imagines that Jordan would have been in the background of those negotiations anyway, giventhat by that stage Lim was working for Jordan) and that owning the freehold wasn't important to him. He pointed out that he had built his mobile 'phone business without owning the freehold to any of his shops and he was happy to do the same with Palace.

Morgan
16-10-2003, 10:55 AM
Richard, thanks for the post. Very good points.
My only comments would be, that many clubs did undertake an investment policy into their grounds during the early to mid nineties.
I refer again Meadow Lane, which look very impressive when Palace played there in Oct/Nov 1993 (you could also look at Nottingham Forest).
Re the Holmsedale, I thought this was funded by the supporters (by way of long term season tickets), together with a grant from the Football Association Trust, as opposed to Noades.

Noades churlish spat with the local council certainly did not help with regards to further development to the Main Stand.

I take your point re Goldberg, but to blame him for lack of development, as opposed to Noades or Jordan, seems unfair (despite the bloke being a complete prat !).

Going forward, I am getting very concerned as to where the club will be playing in the future. Only seven years left on the lease between Jordan and Atonwood and the clock is running. As you say, lets hope Jordan has accounted for this in his "roadmap" !

Justin
16-10-2003, 11:02 AM
This could be completely unfair but my belief is that SJ has no policy on the ground and instead just believes the situation will resolve itself. SJ made his fortune in a rapidly changing environment by swiftly building up a company and then selling it on. He often talks about his desire for promotion this year rather than building for the future. Seven years to SJ is a lifetime away and so why would he want to take expensive steps now to resolve the problem?

Maz
16-10-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
I wasn't being 100% serious ... I it was a supposed to be a joke. It was still making some very good points, serious or not...

Tim
16-10-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by James
Tim, you are so wrong.

I seriously doubt whether anyone would buy the Club in its present situation (with only six years left on an excluded tenancy; huge operating losses; and debts piling up).

No mate - if Jordan does decide to pack up and go, it may well be the end of the Club.

James,

I have said before surely the club was a much less attractive proposition when SJ brought it,alright there was a lucrative TV deal then, but any astute business man with some footballing knowledge (RN for example) could put together a viable business plan to move the club forward and into the premiership (Pompey and B`ham) great examples of with the right structure in place it can be done!

Richard
16-10-2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Morgan
I refer again Meadow Lane, which look very impressive when Palace played there in Oct/Nov 1993 (you could also look at Nottingham Forest).
Re the Holmsedale, I thought this was funded by the supporters (by way of long term season tickets), together with a grant from the Football Association Trust, as opposed to Noades.

I take your point, and Meadow Lane is a good example although it only has a capacity of around 20,000. I think Palace would be looking to build something around 35,000 (In the dream that someday we might actually enthuse enough to come and fill it !) and I suspect the costs of this would be very large. I don't know what the funding arrangement of the Holmesdale was, although the five year tickets (what great deal for the fans those were) & Football Trust money obviously played at significant part. I suspect that the club's general trading revenues also made a contribution.

jone-zee
16-10-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
Wouldn't it have been a nice gesture following the 90/91 3rd place finish if Mr Noades had reinvested just a fraction of the hundreds of thousands of pounds that Altonwood had already gained from CPFC. Just a wee bit more than Lee Sinnott ?


Or even kicked up his normal fuss when we were deprived of our rightly deserved European Place at the time. The silence frome someone so normally outspoken was quite deafening. That has never been explained.

calne eagle
16-10-2003, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by jone-zee
Or even kicked up his normal fuss when we were RIGHTLY deprived of our European Place at the time.

Do you really mean that, jone-zee?
I thought the word on Noades' silence was that he was angling for a post within the FA.

jone-zee
16-10-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by calne eagle
Do you really mean that, jone-zee?
I thought the word on Noades' silence was that he was angling for a post within the FA.

DOH!!:bash: U know what i meant lol

Strathclyde Eagle
16-10-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by James
The Club could and should be doing far better than it is.
That's the bottom line, unfortunately. :sob:
Originally posted by Tim
I have said before surely the club was a much less attractive proposition when SJ brought it...
I wouldn't have thought so. No big contracts to inherit, all debts wiped off, new stadium lease to negotiate. It is a great deal bleaker now.

Son of Shacker
17-10-2003, 07:01 AM
I would also like to add that my Wimpy Quarterpounder with cheese was circa a few degrees below optimum eating temperature. In fact the coke was a bit warmer. I'm not sure if messrs Kember and Bullivant were to blame for this fiasco but it must have affected the outcome of the match.

Morgan
17-10-2003, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by James

The Club could and should be doing far better than it is.

To me this one sentence sums up perfectly the entire history of Crystal Palace FC

Justin
17-10-2003, 07:37 AM
To me it sums up the supporters perfectly. We are turning into Spurs supporters who think we are better than we are. All football clubs have cycles and at the moment we are in a consolidating/down one. Previously these periods either took place in lower leagues or with much lower crowds. In the nearly 100 years of our existence we have only been in the top divison for abut 10% of that time. Even in the past 35 years it is about 30%.

I saw the Football League Revie last night and Brian Little said what a hard job the Palace one is because expectation is so high. Without doubt SJ is partly responsible for that but so are the supporters.

Morgan
17-10-2003, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by Justin
To me it sums up the supporters perfectly. We are turning into Spurs supporters who think we are better than we are. All football clubs have cycles and at the moment we are in a consolidating/down one. Previously these periods either took place in lower leagues or with much lower crowds. In the nearly 100 years of our existence we have only been in the top divison for abut 10% of that time. Even in the past 35 years it is about 30%.

I saw the Football League Revie last night and Brian Little said what a hard job the Palace one is because expectation is so high. Without doubt SJ is partly responsible for that but so are the supporters.

I know we're now moving completey off thread, but I disagree with this.

This club has potential - almost every supporter on here thinks so - but no-one (with the possible exception of Arthur Wait and even Ray Bloye) has ever got close to realising it.
Just because the club spent time in the Third Division South, or Fourth Division during it's history, has, in my view, got sod all to do with what it can do today. I think you'll find that up until the arrival of Bill Shankley, Liverpool were considered a "second division" (as it was then) club. Regardless of it's pre Shankley days, no-one would argue that that's what they are now.

There are periods of consolidating (Charlton are doing this in the Premiership) and there are periods of underachieving (which is what we're doing now). They are completely different things.
Personally, to just accept that this is a "down" period and that if we wait a little time things will turn around based on the premise that they always do, is foolhardy. Things change because people make them change. At this present time this club is failing.

I don't expect to win championships, qualify for Europe etc. But I do expect the club to be moving forward a tad more than they appear to be doing at the moment.
It's not all Jordan's fault. It probably wasn't all Noades' fault. But somewhere along the line we've seem to have missed out.

Justin
17-10-2003, 08:15 AM
That is why I also made refernce to the past 35 years - the golden years of our history. Within that period we have only been in the top divison about 30% of the time, have had gates of 4/5,000 and been in division three. Throughout this period we have had a few highs but usually fall back very quickly afterwards. Although I think Noades failed to capitalise on the foundations he built, his is the only period (the late 80's to 91 where clear progress was being made.

The fact that we, the supporters, expect more is I am afraid delusions of grandeur.

GUCCI Eagle
17-10-2003, 08:17 AM
<NEWSFLASH>

Every supporter in the land thinks their club has masses of potential and should be doing better. The obvious ones (most vociferous on the subject):

Sheffield Wednesday
QPR
Nottingham Forest
West Brom
West Ham
Crystal Palace
Spineless Spurs
+ many more

Flappy Chicken
17-10-2003, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by Justin
After all whenever Sir Steve had money to spend it was always spent so wisely - Gabbiadini, Ismael, Taylor, Bodin, Emblem.....

Who was Bodin?????:eek:

ravepants
17-10-2003, 08:20 AM
Some peoples self importance astounds me.......
Lets cut the cheap, unhelpful, low, nasty remarks about Jordans relatives shall we, we can all name call and snipe, it doesnt help and reflects more on you than the people you are attacking. Jordan bought a club, no one wanted, we were stripped to the bone by administration, Stevie said he couldnt work with a man like Jordan and prefered to go, that is regretable but fare, and I will say again, Jordan had to spend to build a squad, the players etc with hindsight might not have been the best in quality or value, but if we had carried on with what we had and only picked up bargains the howling on here would be unbearable.
He tried to build a club, quickly, he had no option, it didnt work, now we are trying to stablize the club, that is the risk, we all wanted success. Now lets grow up and realize what kind of club we are, until football envitably re-aligns itself we are not a premiership club, we are a mid-table first division club, that is life. Lets just be greatful we have a team to watch on saturday and a team to winge and whine here about!
Continous hounding of our chairmen doesnt help, and for the record when Noades got the stick back years ago I said much the same, I didnt much like what he got up to in terms of Golf Clubs and Transfers of stands but I wouldnt attack his family.
Lets all grow up

DocSavage
17-10-2003, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by ravepants
Some peoples self importance astounds me.......
Lets cut the cheap, unhelpful, low, nasty remarks about Jordans relatives shall we, we can all name call and snipe, it doesnt help and reflects more on you than the people you are attacking. Jordan bought a club, no one wanted, we were stripped to the bone by administration, Stevie said he couldnt work with a man like Jordan and prefered to go, that is regretable but fare, and I will say again, Jordan had to spend to build a squad, the players etc with hindsight might not have been the best in quality or value, but if we had carried on with what we had and only picked up bargains the howling on here would be unbearable.
He tried to build a club, quickly, he had no option, it didnt work, now we are trying to stablize the club, that is the risk, we all wanted success. Now lets grow up and realize what kind of club we are, until football envitably re-aligns itself we are not a premiership club, we are a mid-table first division club, that is life. Lets just be greatful we have a team to watch on saturday and a team to winge and whine here about!
Continous hounding of our chairmen doesnt help, and for the record when Noades got the stick back years ago I said much the same, I didnt much like what he got up to in terms of Golf Clubs and Transfers of stands but I wouldnt attack his family.
Lets all grow up

Long after Mr Jordan has moved on we will all still be supporting our team through thick and thin, we will cheer and support the good things and as you phrase it whinge at the crap. By the way what level of relation are you to the boss?

Morgan
17-10-2003, 08:31 AM
Personally I think more progress was made by Arthur Wait then Ron Noades. Wait took the club from the Fourth Division to the First. He transformed the ground into a stadium that could hold first class football and which was certainly no worse than any other first division ground at the time. I beleive (but sure that others could confirm one way or another) that this was funded at his own expense.
Attendances at football matches during the 1960's and 1970's were high for most clubs, but Palace were certainly not slow at "pulling them in". It was this platform that Ray Bloye took over from and helped result in the club having the fifth highest average attendence in season 1979/80, throughout the entire football league !

Personally I think we should be doing better than we are. I don't hold any delusions of grandeur. The current team and management are, in my view, very poor.
I see what's happened at Charlton (from arguably a much worse position than us) and can't believe that we have no chance of achieving the same. I'm not saying that we deserve to or that we will, just that we can - with the right management

Tim
17-10-2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by ravepants
Some peoples self importance astounds me.......
Lets cut the cheap, unhelpful, low, nasty remarks about Jordans relatives shall we, we can all name call and snipe, it doesnt help and reflects more on you than the people you are attacking. Jordan bought a club, no one wanted, we were stripped to the bone by administration, Stevie said he couldnt work with a man like Jordan and prefered to go, that is regretable but fare, and I will say again, Jordan had to spend to build a squad, the players etc with hindsight might not have been the best in quality or value, but if we had carried on with what we had and only picked up bargains the howling on here would be unbearable.
He tried to build a club, quickly, he had no option, it didnt work, now we are trying to stablize the club, that is the risk, we all wanted success. Now lets grow up and realize what kind of club we are, until football envitably re-aligns itself we are not a premiership club, we are a mid-table first division club, that is life. Lets just be greatful we have a team to watch on saturday and a team to winge and whine here about!
Continous hounding of our chairmen doesnt help, and for the record when Noades got the stick back years ago I said much the same, I didnt much like what he got up to in terms of Golf Clubs and Transfers of stands but I wouldnt attack his family.
Lets all grow up

Good point does anyone actually Know his brother to start making assumptions as to wot he is like as a person?

You make the point that with hindsight alot of of SJ`S money was not spent on quality or value the problem is that I think most of us dont need hindsight to see that.

Morgan
17-10-2003, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by GUCCI Eagle
<NEWSFLASH>

Every supporter in the land thinks their club has masses of potential and should be doing better. The obvious ones (most vociferous on the subject):

Sheffield Wednesday
QPR
Nottingham Forest
West Brom
West Ham
Crystal Palace
Spineless Spurs
+ many more

Of the ones you quote, Sheffield Wednesday should definitely be doing better than being the 2nd division, and I think their supporters are right to have a moan.
Forest, West Brom and West Ham, all look to have a fair chance of achieving the goal (promotion to the Premiership) that the supporters think they deserve (unlike us, who, at present have no chance at all)
QPR, again have a good chance of promotion to Division One, which, based on my conversations with their supporters, is about as high as they think they can go.
Spurs - would agree with you on this one

Justin
17-10-2003, 08:55 AM
Morgan - I am not saying I don't want us to achieve more or that the club should just sit back and wait for our time to come again. I certainly think certain things could be improved. However in the last few seasons we have had four managers and that doesn't seem to make much difference. I agree that Charlton are a fantastic example of what could be achieved although I do feel that they were fortunate at being on the up at exactly the right time and it would be much harder now. Furthermore they allowed Curbishley (and Gritt) time to build the foundations and didn't moan when their results were not as good as they would have liked.

My personal most enjoyable time of the past 10 years was the year we were in administration where the crowd supported a young team regardless of the result. We certainly achieved more than we should have done that year.

My choice of strategy now would be to rid ourselves of most of the older pros, play the kids and build for a few years time. Not only do I think we will achieve nothing with the current set up but also if the holy grail of promotion was achieved it would be the worst possible thing for our club.

Richard
17-10-2003, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Morgan
I know we're now moving completey off thread, but I disagree with this.

This club has potential - almost every supporter on here thinks so - but no-one (with the possible exception of Arthur Wait and even Ray Bloye) has ever got close to realising it.
Just because the club spent time in the Third Division South, or Fourth Division during it's history, has, in my view, got sod all to do with what it can do today. I think you'll find that up until the arrival of Bill Shankley, Liverpool were considered a "second division" (as it was then) club. Regardless of it's pre Shankley days, no-one would argue that that's what they are now.

There are periods of consolidating (Charlton are doing this in the Premiership) and there are periods of underachieving (which is what we're doing now). They are completely different things.
Personally, to just accept that this is a "down" period and that if we wait a little time things will turn around based on the premise that they always do, is foolhardy. Things change because people make them change. At this present time this club is failing.

I don't expect to win championships, qualify for Europe etc. But I do expect the club to be moving forward a tad more than they appear to be doing at the moment.
It's not all Jordan's fault. It probably wasn't all Noades' fault. But somewhere along the line we've seem to have missed out.

I agree with nearly every word of this, Morgan.

My worry is that three years of Jordan's stewardship (three years during which he was able and prepared to invest) has taken the club nowhere. Now, he has called a halt to his personal expenditure. He's perfectly entitled to do this and I don't blame him for doing so (despite him telling the press after the ITV Digital fallout that it wouldn't affect Palace because he would simply dig a little deeper into his pockets). Unfortunately I have little faith in his ability to run a football club, particularly where he isn't putting in his own cash to shore-up mistakes he makes. The Steve Kember appointment was clearly indicative of Jordan's intention to no longer think big financially. Now I would love Steve Kember to do well, because I love the idea of a loyal club servant at our little club bringing the good times back. Although I think it is still too early to judge Kember, the early signs aren't encouraging. The question is where do we go from here, and I fear the consolidation we need to do is to keep us in the mid-table of the First Division. More significantly, whilst I have little problem with Jordan deciding not to invest any more of his own money, I wonder whether Jordan will honour the club's overdraft and other debts that he has run up during his stewardship. If he is to walk away from the club and let someone else have a chance to manage it better, it is the least he can do if he really does love the club as a fan.

Tim
17-10-2003, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Justin
if the holy grail of promotion was achieved it would be the worst possible thing for our club.

WHY?

Justin
17-10-2003, 09:34 AM
I fear we would take a huge gamble to try and stay up and if that failed then the club would have put itself in a perilous financial position. Furthermore if supporters are glum now then that would be nothing compared to getting beaten every week. If we were relegated straight away, SJ would realise that his dream was not possible without spending vast sums and walk away. However many faults he has I really can't see a queue of people lined up to buy the club off him.

Rog 007
17-10-2003, 09:39 AM
At least we're not like the dons and getting stuffed every week

Tim
17-10-2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Justin
I fear we would take a huge gamble to try and stay up and if that failed then the club would have put itself in a perilous financial position. Furthermore if supporters are glum now then that would be nothing compared to getting beaten every week. If we were relegated straight away, SJ would realise that his dream was not possible without spending vast sums and walk away. However many faults he has I really can't see a queue of people lined up to buy the club off him.

Maybe I am missing the point but you never want us to go up then?

Panther
17-10-2003, 09:56 AM
I imagine Justin takes my view that sure I'd like us to go up but only when we have a squad strong enough to remain in the Prem for more than one year. (I guess that's a few years off yet.)

sydnsteve
17-10-2003, 09:57 AM
I think Richard has summed up the situation very neatly. SJ has saved the club, we as fans are eternally grateful. He has splashed out a lot of money, nearly all of it badly, and manifestly failed to run the business side (facilities) well. He now will spend no more, to the extent that we cannot get another player in unless Gray has left. Furthermore, he has shown that he has bad man management, which has led to SK being promoted above his abilities (I sincerely hope to be wrong on this one). The first team squad is as good as any, cover is very thin. The difference in this division will be managerial ability. Sadly SK is doing poorly, but as with TF we wait for things to turn round with that Palace fan's mixture of pessimistic optimism. ( I always remember Coppell saying about three quarters of the way through the season we finished third that at least we shouldn't be relegated now).
If SJ no longer wants to put his money in I could not blame him, but to me he is now the problem rather than the savoiur he was, and always will be. I don't think he can help it, it is just the way he is, but it is doing nothing for Palace. Until he goes I fear we will struggle, and the only possible alternative is clearly RN, as I can't see anyone else touching the place. I never had any time for him, but seeing SJ in charge has made me more appreciative.
Cue the SJ is God brigade, and he should be allowed to destroy the club if he wants to as it is his money and his club. To me it is not his club, it is our club, and we should be getting more entertainment , a few games like Cardiff excepted, than we are.

Justin
17-10-2003, 10:00 AM
A perfectly fair question and one that I think helps to explain my current complete lack of enjoyment of football. On another thread I spoke about the glory years where I liked Liverpool in Europe and Forest got promoted, won the league and then the European Cup. Even look at Wimbledon - non-league to FACup Winners. Now contrast that with Wolves - their wage bill must be huge but they just can't compete despite having a Chairman who makes SJ look like a Big Issue vendor. I do in my hear want us to be promoted but I think it would be the start of even bigger troubkle rather than the start of a glorious future. I genuinely belive our best chance is to build really solid foundations now so that when a few clubs go out of business over the next few years we are able to take advantage.

At a even further tangent I might explain my favourite game this season - Sheffield United. I know we lost but it had everything a game should have. Passion from teams, managers and fans and drama and excitement. I know we lost but I enjoyed that game. Perverse I know.

(having jsut read the previous answer I will also add that I thought the Cardiff game was good as well!)

Panther
17-10-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Justin
A I genuinely belive our best chance is to build really solid foundations now .



Yes, and that's what our most recent chairmen should have tried as soon as they took over instead of trying to be flash and do everything in too much of a hurry.

Justin
17-10-2003, 10:12 AM
But both made their money in industries where long-term planning was probably a 6 month view and their aim was to build up a company and sell it at the best possible time.

James
17-10-2003, 10:18 AM
I wonder what Simon Jordan really expects of the Club?

This is a question that intrigues me. From various things I have heard, I have become convinced that Jordan would like to get out, if he can find a way to do so. However, he has invested millions into the Club and would stand to lose a huge amount in addition if he simply walked away. He may have got to the stage where he feels that he can’t afford simply to abandon the Club.

Unless he is really stupid, he must know that he is unlikely to find a buyer who would take the Club on in its present condition. The Club is deeply in debt and – worse still – seems to be haemorrhaging cash at an alarming rate.

So, what does he expect – and what does he want?

He seems to have got it into his head that Promotion would be the answer to all his problems. At a stroke, there would be cash flooding into the Club and the players’ contract would be worth far more than they are now. In Jordan’s mind, that might be the time to sell.

However, Justin (and others) have made a very good point. Promotion doesn’t always mean the end to financial difficulties. Indeed, it can be the catalyst for problems that are far greater than those we face at the moment.

Even if Jordan was minded to take his chances in the Premiership without investing further, there is no guarantee that he would be able to find a buyer for a Club with limited security of tenure. In six short years, Palace will have no home – what then? Although there may be more money coming in, I doubt whether there would be enough to arrest the losses, let alone make a dent in the sizeable debts that have been building up.

Of course, it may be that I have been wrong about Jordan. Perhaps he wants promotion for the same reason as the rest of us – because he wants to see our Team compete with the very best. Perhaps the money isn’t particularly important.

Perhaps pigs might fly.

ravepants
17-10-2003, 10:20 AM
Doc Sav .no relation, and without SJ you wouldnt have a club to support now. simple, without him, maybe none
2. MORGAN ... Noades bought a club that was heavily debted for the times, and is there not the imfamous story of Ron wrestling light fittings from Balifs hands, was the Whitehorse not sold for peanuts to Sainsburys in the Cr*p real estate deal of the decade, 100 year lease for 3 million which I might add your average large supermarket clears as Profit each year, (and yes I do know that as fact sadly having worked in the sector for 12 sad years till i escaped) and with no provision for payment for stands to sit over it. WAS A THIS WELL RUN CLUB THEN?
Noades took the club from ruin did nicely out of THE BUSINESS and left, he left the club in much the same state Jordan would if he is hounded out, yet Jordan will walk with nothing to show for it.
I agree there is also little point in going up yet, lets be realistic football has changed, until it re-aligns with 4 clubs moving to Europe and the rest left to create a new challenging league with proper finance why go up?? To get slapped to be be relegated and go so deep into debt we wont recover, we will never be a capable of challenging Arsenal United or the majority of Premiership as it stands, the gap is far too big!
I also fear Jordan getting his dream of Premiership, coz I do feel he may get so wrapped up like the rest of us, we go all or bust. He is a fan also , lets remember that. I wouldnt be able to control myself, would you? Promotion was Sir jacks dream at Wolves for so long, and when the reality hit home, he is half the man now....... he is offering to give it away to keep the dream alive. Look at what Wolves have that we dont, a stadium that is really fit for the job and a decent manager.

James
17-10-2003, 10:28 AM
Ron Noades had nothing to do with the sale to Sainsburys.

Justin
17-10-2003, 10:30 AM
Although no keen supporter of RN I would point out that Bloye sold off the Whithorse end and not Noades.

I would add that my belief is that when Jordan took over the club he thought by spending £20m (or whatever) he could turn us into a mid-table Premiership side. Add in some modern day selling and marketing tricks and the revenue side of the balance sheet could be grown as well. However it hasnot worked out that way and he has found out like many before him taht football is like no other investment. Not only do you lose your cash but the fans don't appreciate what you are doing either. He now sees the Premiership as his exit strategy but that is based on blind hope rather than reality in terms of finding a buyer and getting promoted anyway.

DocSavage
17-10-2003, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by GUCCI Eagle
<NEWSFLASH>

Every supporter in the land thinks their club has masses of potential and should be doing better. The obvious ones (most vociferous on the subject):

Sheffield Wednesday
QPR
Nottingham Forest
West Brom
West Ham
Crystal Palace
Spineless Spurs
+ many more

Yep but we're right

ravepants
17-10-2003, 10:31 AM
That is what I have just said james The comparison was Aurthur Wait did a better job than Noades I believe

Richard
17-10-2003, 10:32 AM
ravepants, Noades didn't sell the Whitehorse - that was done by Bloye, and it's rumoured that he kept the proceeds.

Originally posted by ravepants
Noades took the club from ruin did nicely out of THE BUSINESS and left, he left the club in much the same state Jordan would if he is hounded out, yet Jordan will walk with nothing to show for it.

That simply demonstrates the difference in the ability between the two in running a football club. Oh, and Goldberg's utter stupidity in not doing proper due diligence into what he was buying.

Morgan
17-10-2003, 10:34 AM
Ravepants - I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make re Noades.
I referred to Arthur Wait (who I think was Palace's best chairman) who gave the club it's first taste of success. With this success he improved the ground and general set-up.
When Bloye took over, the club had a very healthy support and was still in the then first division (albeit for no more than a few months!). However it was in debt due to the heavy spending of Bert Head in trying to maintain first division status.
Bloye spent very little money and basically enforced his managers to build around the youth team - which proved very successful. However despite returning to the first division, with once again, terrific support, Bloye was still reluctant to spend very money. I think Venables refers to this as one of the resaosn why he left the club.
Bloye's deal with Sainsbury's was scandalous to say the least, and yes Noades brought a club in a very weak financial predictament.

However, I still believe that the club can reach the highest pinnacles, just that we have seemed, since Arthur Waits days, not to have the management, foresight and vision to do so.

I agree with Justin re going-up - a complete bloody nightmare.

ravepants
17-10-2003, 10:35 AM
I was stating the job, although maybe not entirely clearly written by myself for which I apologise, Noades did was a huge one, balifs, Sainsburies having been sold under the previous leadership, I was praising Noades and I never said he sold sainsbuys coz anyone who has Noades talk about what he took over will here how bad that deal was, and that it had nothing to do with him as the first line of conversation....... apologies again if I didnt make myself clear here, it was all that refering to me as related that Jordan did it, I might be greatful to him and respect what he did, doesnt mean I want to be related ha ha

Richard
17-10-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by sydnsteve
I think Richard has summed up the situation very neatly. SJ has saved the club, we as fans are eternally grateful. He has splashed out a lot of money, nearly all of it badly, and manifestly failed to run the business side (facilities) well. He now will spend no more, to the extent that we cannot get another player in unless Gray has left. Furthermore, he has shown that he has bad man management, which has led to SK being promoted above his abilities (I sincerely hope to be wrong on this one). The first team squad is as good as any, cover is very thin. The difference in this division will be managerial ability. Sadly SK is doing poorly, but as with TF we wait for things to turn round with that Palace fan's mixture of pessimistic optimism. ( I always remember Coppell saying about three quarters of the way through the season we finished third that at least we shouldn't be relegated now).
If SJ no longer wants to put his money in I could not blame him, but to me he is now the problem rather than the savoiur he was, and always will be. I don't think he can help it, it is just the way he is, but it is doing nothing for Palace. Until he goes I fear we will struggle, and the only possible alternative is clearly RN, as I can't see anyone else touching the place. I never had any time for him, but seeing SJ in charge has made me more appreciative.
Cue the SJ is God brigade, and he should be allowed to destroy the club if he wants to as it is his money and his club. To me it is not his club, it is our club, and we should be getting more entertainment , a few games like Cardiff excepted, than we are.

sydnsteve, are you my long lost twin ? I agree with every word. (Except that I thought Hughes was actually Gray's replacement, but then I suppose that Akinbiyi has also now left).

I particularly love this comment "Palace fan's mixture of pessimistic optimism". Sums up my outlook on Palace perfectly.

newbureagle
17-10-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by pepper
I wouldn't argue over your 'truly great records' label necessarily. But I reckon there could be a psychological link between playing a record over and over again, and the whole monotonous experience that is a Palace home match just now.

Hang on! We nearly won the FA Cup and the old first division listening to Americano's every bloody week. Didn't do us any harm then!

ravepants
17-10-2003, 10:40 AM
Now my english and proof reading skills are leaving me also...... I should give up.
Clarity
I KNOW NOADES DIDNT SELL SAINSBURYS - I WAS JUST STATING THAT HE DID FINE JOB TURNING US ROUND FROM MASSIVE DEBTS AND HAVING A HUGE CHUNK OF GROUND SOLD FOR PEANUTS.
He also got plenty out of us at the end, which you can argue was rightly deserved, I dont and never have hated or blamed Noades and will stand up for him as I will for anyone running us, coz to slap them down wont kepp my beloved palace alive!

ElwissAtMemphis
17-10-2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by ravepants
was the Whitehorse not sold for peanuts to Sainsburys in the Cr*p real estate deal of the decade, 100 year lease for 3 million which I might add your average large supermarket clears as Profit each year, (and yes I do know that as fact sadly having worked in the sector for 12 sad years till i escaped) and with no provision for payment for stands to sit over it. WAS A THIS WELL RUN CLUB THEN?...

No, that particular deal was the 2nd cràppest real estate deal of the decade.

The undisputed cràppest deal of the decade saw what remained of the ground sold off to a company that ... I'm not exactly sure what useful purpose the company earns. However, it's a bit of a laugh that the man that has profited from the latter deal to the tune of millions of pounds (at CPFC's expense) used to bellyache incessantly about how the former deal hadn't benefited our club.

Morgan
17-10-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
No, that particular deal was the 2nd cràppest real estate deal of the decade.

The undisputed cràppest deal of the decade saw what remained of the ground sold off to a company that ... I'm not exactly sure what useful purpose the company earns. However, it's a bit of a laugh that the man that has profited from the latter deal to the tune of millions of pounds (at CPFC's expense) used to bellyache incessantly about how the former deal hadn't benefited our club.

10 out of 10 for perserverence Elwiss !!!!
Although I must add that I rather agree with you !!!!

Richard
17-10-2003, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
No, that particular deal was the 2nd cràppest real estate deal of the decade.

The undisputed cràppest deal of the decade saw what remained of the ground sold off to a company that ... I'm not exactly sure what useful purpose the company earns. However, it's a bit of a laugh that the man that has profited from the latter deal to the tune of millions of pounds (at CPFC's expense) used to bellyache incessantly about how the former deal hadn't benefited our club.

Ohmygod - who set him off again ?

Richard
17-10-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by newbureagle
Hang on! We nearly won the FA Cup and the old first division listening to Americano's every bloody week. Didn't do us any harm then!

True. However, I definitely blame "Zombie Nation" for inducing a trance-like state in our defence (and support) on many occasions.

Justin
17-10-2003, 10:56 AM
To look at how football has changed then consider the situation at Brentford. Noades bought them for very little and thought the business model that had worked at Palace could be replicated. Without doubt he was influenced by his desire to prove his managerial nous as well. I do not know enough about the Brentford situation to know why he left and I suppose it is possible that he realised his heart was still at Selhurst. However I would imagine that he realised that to sustain a club of even Brentford's size was a costly exercise in the modern day world. I believe that it would be impossible to run a club of our size and not sustain losses of say £1m to £3m per annum. Previously the club could sell a young player for a good sum to cover the losses but this isn't possible now.

Others on this board can try and read Noades' mind better than me but I imagine his Brentford experience has persuaded him to keep his money and avoid the losses and grief that is associated with owning a football club.

DocSavage
17-10-2003, 11:37 AM
Someone said earlier that "Jordan was the saviour but is now the problem". I think that was well put. I am not sure I want Jordan to pack up and move on. I do wnat him to look at himself and review his business plan.

He needs a high profile, business orientated CEO, a bright articulate marketing manager and he needs to stay away from the team and team matters.

He needs to understand that the club's life blood is the fans and he needs to respect that and them. We know he has spent his money on what he now considers his business, if he wants a return on it he has to expend some more on the business infrastructure and then the team resources.

IMHO

ravepants
17-10-2003, 11:38 AM
I have tried posting twice and my PC blew up, this the 2nd one and it went down again......
Real estate ...... yes true, that sale after we had incured the debts of the building of the holmesdale (i believe) was the deal of the decade, but I dont think this phased Goldberg or even Jordan, I believe the original plan to follow what is now called the southampton model as opposed to the Charlton (got lucky with the council) option of uppin sticks and moving to a 30 thousand cheap but well thought out venue based on reality of attendence rather than dreaming, in our case around Gatwick was always in the plan, reality however is football changed, finances changed, we missed the boat somewhat, still makes the most sense longterm, but financially not within our reach alas. i still repeat I am glad we are alive! and we have a club to watch in reality not just a dream of wright scoring from a knockdown from bright after salad had crossed.......... oh I know reality was they both hit the floodlight bulbs as much as the back of the net, but memories hey, 4-3 we beat the scousers 4-3.... loadsa loadsa money........ oh how those words we chanted in the faces of the scousers at villa park blister inthe back of my throat!!

ravepants
17-10-2003, 11:40 AM
Justin I agree is what I meant to add and Iknow the hot air and crap I spout is probably the reason for the PC giving up!!

Panther
17-10-2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Richard
I particularly love this comment "Palace fan's mixture of pessimistic optimism". Sums up my outlook on Palace perfectly.

I liked that too. Perhaps we can coin a new word "pessimoptimism"?

c_block_lad
17-10-2003, 03:46 PM
Dear SJ

Do not listen to the cretins who want your depature from this club or those who crictise your every move. Simply say, "Put up or Shut up".
Thank you for your continue investment into this football club.

Icy
17-10-2003, 04:07 PM
Cant be bothered to read the rest of this thread as it sounds to moany so id just like to add - "Cheers SJ for saving the club we luv and continuing to spunk your own funds to keep us going" :p

DocSavage
17-10-2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by Icy
Cant be bothered to read the rest of this thread as it sounds to moany so id just like to add - "Cheers SJ for saving the club we luv and continuing to spunk your own funds to keep us going" :p

WEll frankly you should try harder and read before you comment?

DocSavage
17-10-2003, 09:59 PM
The club is the fans, we are the stock holders, we are the customers, we are the income, we are the club. We stand in the rain, risk physical damage for our allegiance. We try to sing to raise the team. We would all like to have the money to buy it and do the right thing, we all have opinion, views desires.

We are the past and the future, the present and therefore the pain. We have opinion and desire.

If we saw something positive developing we would root to the depths, if SJ asked for next months pay packet most of us would give it.

But today I only see the shadow of irrelevance growing, I believe we should be mid table premiership but see mit table 2 looming

But long after SJ has gone I and my children will be singing red and blue army

Love you all

Chobham Eagle
18-10-2003, 06:16 PM
Dear Mr Jordan

Have you noticed that Reading have won their last two matches?

Nobby
18-10-2003, 06:43 PM
Dear Chobham Eagle,

You ba**ard. Thanks for rubbing it in, Steve Coppell-wise. Although let's see where they are circa the end of the season.

Lots of love,

Jordypoos

Chobham Eagle
19-10-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Nobby
Dear Chobham Eagle,

You ba**ard. Thanks for rubbing it in, Steve Coppell-wise. Although let's see where they are circa the end of the season.

Lots of love,

Jordypoos

Dear Jordypoos

More to the point...let's see where WE are circa the end of the season!