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alexthefatdawg
31-08-2004, 08:01 PM
Doesn't anyone else share my dislike of loan deals?

All I can find is general approval of the news from Inter but I don't understand how I am supposed to support players who do not belong to my club. Or indeed, why I should.

I can tolerate loanees where we have an option to purchase at the end of the deal. This could be seen as good practice especially on a limited budget. But I will find it very difficult to stomach leaving out someone who ran through brick walls to get us where we are in favour of someone who belongs to another club

Am I a lone voice on this one?

Benzhiyi
31-08-2004, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by alexthefatdawg
Am I a lone voice on this one?

You missed a cracking pun there...

CPFC987
31-08-2004, 08:02 PM
Think so ;)

samtheeagle
31-08-2004, 08:02 PM
haha

thewill
31-08-2004, 08:03 PM
no your not a-loan on this, I will 'loan' you my support... er... thats all i got

Sussex Eagle
31-08-2004, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by alexthefatdawg
Doesn't anyone else share my dislike of loan deals?

All I can find is general approval of the news from Inter but I don't understand how I am supposed to support players who do not belong to my club. Or indeed, why I should.

I can tolerate loanees where we have an option to purchase at the end of the deal. This could be seen as good practice especially on a limited budget. But I will find it very difficult to stomach leaving out someone who ran through brick walls to get us where we are in favour of someone who belongs to another club

Am I a lone voice on this one?

What a misery! We are on a limited budget, by Premiership standards, and these loans have enabled us to get 3 players we probably weren't prepared to shell out the fees for without a better look for the whole season (longer than some permanent Palace players of the past)

henryhallandhisbasque
31-08-2004, 08:04 PM
Depends if the loan players contribute to keeping us up or not. Sometimes they can be an absolute nightmare. That said, as Jordan is hardly likely to pay out the sort of transfer fees people like Sorondo etc would cost, I don't see what choice Dowie has but to go down the loan route.

Sussex Eagle
31-08-2004, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by alexthefatdawg
.

Er, I've already quoted you mate, so it's a bit late to withdraw your comments!

Sussex Eagle
31-08-2004, 08:05 PM
Oh, it's back - confuzzled

Walsh-Palace
31-08-2004, 08:05 PM
What ever it takes to stay up in the First Season.

alexthefatdawg
31-08-2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by henryhallandhisbasque
Depends if the loan players contribute to keeping us up or not. Sometimes they can be an absolute nightmare. That said, as Jordan is hardly likely to pay out the sort of transfer fees people like Sorondo etc would cost, I don't see what choice Dowie has but to go down the loan route.

Whether we stay up or not, how do loanees help in the long term? They won't be with us next season whether we stay up or not.

JannerEagle
31-08-2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by henryhallandhisbasque
Depends if the loan players contribute to keeping us up or not. Or indeed taking us up, like Paul Stewart a few seasons back - inspired choice at the time - who knows?

alexthefatdawg
31-08-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Sussex Eagle
Er, I've already quoted you mate, so it's a bit late to withdraw your comments!

Sorry, just thought it might be in the wrong forum. Didn't get time to move it though!

;)

lordanton
31-08-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by alexthefatdawg
Whether we stay up or not, how do loanees help in the long term? They won't be with us next season whether we stay up or not.

They may fall in love with the club and sign permenantly.

henryhallandhisbasque
31-08-2004, 08:09 PM
If they help us stay up and then bugger off, then we have stayed up and make more money than getting relegated. Then, we can get some more loan players in.

Sussex Eagle
31-08-2004, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by JannerEagle
Or indeed taking us up, like Paul Stewart a few seasons back - inspired choice at the time - who knows?

Kenny Brown was another good deal - did he do much else in his career?

Bryan
31-08-2004, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by alexthefatdawg
Whether we stay up or not, how do loanees help in the long term?

If we stay up then we can buy better permanent players and establish ourselves as a premiership club. That's pretty obvious.

alexthefatdawg
31-08-2004, 08:11 PM
Does anyone think that it is possible for loanees to give the same commitment to the team than last season's boysd did or is the expectation that theiur ability will more than make up for this?

eaglei_uk
31-08-2004, 08:11 PM
So what about Hudson on loan last season?

limited_edition
31-08-2004, 08:12 PM
Beggars like us can't be choosers.

alexthefatdawg
31-08-2004, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Bryan
If we stay up then we can buy better permanent players and establish ourselves as a premiership club. That's pretty obvious.

I disagree. If we stay up but have to replace the loanees we are in exactly the same boat as today - having to use our premiership money to buy players just to stay up. That's not progress.

alexthefatdawg
31-08-2004, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by eaglei_uk
So what about Hudson on loan last season?

Hudson made it very clear from very early on that he wanted to join us full time and would have done so last season if Fuham had not obstructed matters

Stockport_Eagle
31-08-2004, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by alexthefatdawg
Whether we stay up or not, how do loanees help in the long term? They won't be with us next season whether we stay up or not.
If you get it right, you are Bolton Wanderers. Means to an end really, they have attracted better players season by season over the past few years. You're pretty knackered if it fails mind you.

Sussex Eagle
31-08-2004, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by alexthefatdawg
Hudson made it very clear from very early on that he wanted to join us full time and would have done so last season if Fuham had not obstructed matters

I think it's clear that all 3 of these players are playing for a permanent contract at Palace - Kaviedes has an option in the contract, and the other 2 may.

Kirby
31-08-2004, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by alexthefatdawg
I disagree. If we stay up but have to replace the loanees we are in exactly the same boat as today

Yeah but we can attract better players after a year in the Premiership.

brighton_eagle
31-08-2004, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Kirby
Yeah but we can attract better players after a year in the Premiership.

Exactly. :p

alexthefatdawg
31-08-2004, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Sussex Eagle
I think it's clear that all 3 of these players are playing for a permanent contract at Palace - Kaviedes has an option in the contract, and the other 2 may.

I have no problem with Kaviedes for exactly that reason, hence waiting until today to start the thread

Chris K
31-08-2004, 08:29 PM
I think its a very wise move, of the three players we've signed I'd think it would be very risky for us to sign them permanently. Have them on loan and they do well, we try and sign them, if not, kick em to the curb. Besides who wouldn't fall in love with the charms South London has to offer?

borris_531
31-08-2004, 08:29 PM
i agree with sussex eagle, hudson always wanted to join us fulltime.

krupa
31-08-2004, 08:30 PM
'Talksport' guys reckon that we've done well to get these guys in though that might not be saying much.......

Sir.S.C Remembered
31-08-2004, 08:38 PM
Forssell was committed to us! I know what you mean as I think it is stupid to pay any fee other than nominal when it is a loan deal and I question their committment and whether we will be in trouble if they do not sign at the end of the year as well as someone nicking them or their asking price shooting up if they do well.

However in our situation it is a good idea. Free transfers for experienced players on year contracts as long as signing on fees are low are good as we can afford their wages whilst in the prem and if we go down then they are not renewed although it does mean other teams can steal them.

If we are not paying all their wages even better but if so so be it but as long as not high fees are being paid for the loan then it makes sense especially if we have a first option with a settled advance fee agreed as this gets rid of almost all the problems mentioned apart from a wage increase demand.

dave_who_ru
31-08-2004, 08:38 PM
What I don't like is the new Premiership rule that loan players can't play against their own club. I believe this works to the advantage of the richer clubs like Chelsea. They have Carlton Cole on loan to Villa and Michel Forsell at Birmingham. In all likelihood both these players will be amongst the leading goalscorers at their respective clubs this season. So while they can ping in goals against Chelsea's rivals they will have to stand down when their teams play Chelsea.

Doesn't make sense to me.

gongle
31-08-2004, 08:46 PM
3 words..

Myhre, Hudson and Vaesen.

(OK, 4 words)

Crate
31-08-2004, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by eaglei_uk
So what about Hudson on loan last season?

And we had no difficulty cheering Ashley Cole and Mickael Forssell a few years ago.

alexthefatdawg
31-08-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by gongle
3 words..

Myhre, Hudson and Vaesen.

(OK, 4 words)

Hudson is different as stated above - he made it clear he wanted to join permanently

Myhre and Vaesen were emergencies - indeed goalkeepers by definition are a different kettle of fish. When you need one there are no options - you have to get one however it is done

Gerry from Sussex
31-08-2004, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by alexthefatdawg
Hudson made it very clear from very early on that he wanted to join us full time and would have done so last season if Fuham had not obstructed matters

True, but how do you know one of this lot might not want to stay if we are still in the prem

Gerry from Sussex
31-08-2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by dave_who_ru
What I don't like is the new Premiership rule that loan players can't play against their own club. I believe this works to the advantage of the richer clubs like Chelsea. They have Carlton Cole on loan to Villa and Michel Forsell at Birmingham. In all likelihood both these players will be amongst the leading goalscorers at their respective clubs this season. So while they can ping in goals against Chelsea's rivals they will have to stand down when their teams play Chelsea.


Cunning isn't it?!

Sussex Eagle
31-08-2004, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Gerry from Sussex
True, but how do you know one of this lot might not want to stay if we are still in the prem

As I stated earlier I think all 3 are playing to get a permanent deal. Admittedly if Ventola does well, bigger clubs might start sniffing.

cpfc_spc1982
31-08-2004, 09:08 PM
not keen on loanees who wouldnt want to join us full time but i guess if ventola scores goals which keep us up, im happy.

Gerry from Sussex
31-08-2004, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by Sussex Eagle
As I stated earlier I think all 3 are playing to get a permanent deal. Admittedly if Ventola does well, bigger clubs might start sniffing.

There's not much we can do about that. Anyway, let's get through this season first then we can worry about who does/doesn't want to play for us next season.

(I'd be more worried about other clubs poaching AJ in any case)

Diamondeagle
31-08-2004, 09:11 PM
Of course we need loan players. Palace will not attract the type of players we need to stay up. We are the least attractive prospect to sign for. Even WBA and Portsmouth beat us to the same players. The only way we will get quality is to loan players who will try hard for Palace to earn themselves a place back at their former club or a big move.
I for one would be pleased to have any of Chelsea's second team e,g Huth, Parker Etc..
I am more concerned why we are not loaning any Premier players

alexthefatdawg
01-09-2004, 08:03 PM
OK - It's just me then!

Sires
01-09-2004, 08:06 PM
I have no problem with them because it is like getting someone for free as alot of players only spend a season at clubs anyone even if they have been payed for.

Chickereagle
01-09-2004, 09:04 PM
Didn't loan players help Bolton establish themselves in the premiership and thereby enable the club to attract good quality signings to move them further onwards?

Kirby
02-09-2004, 12:51 AM
Pretty much.

brighton_eagle
02-09-2004, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by Diamondeagle
I am more concerned why we are not loaning any Premier players

Wages? I expect we can cut a better deal with foreign clubs on loan players wages, whereas we are obliged to pay 100% of Premiership based loan players wages.

sydnsteve
02-09-2004, 08:58 AM
Cole showed more passion when he was with us than most of the 'permanent' players. The big advantage of loaning good players in the current financial climate is that if we did by some miracle stay up we would have much more money than anticipated for the followinmg season. It really all depends how they play as far as I'm concerned. If they put in the effort they'll get my support. And remember these guys are trying to get their careers back on track so should be going for it.

Time
02-09-2004, 09:04 AM
One word - Vaesen.

PalaceMonkey
02-09-2004, 09:05 AM
I love loan players! :lux:
I think they are vital to clubs of our size,
and when we are winning the champions league year in, year out, they will be useful for giving our huge squad first team experience.

LP
02-09-2004, 09:11 AM
Bringing in loan players is an ideal solution for a club in our situation. It means that we can bring in players on Premiership wages, but if the worst comes to the worst and we get relegated, we're then not stuck with these players on big wages we can't afford in the division below. Just ask Wednesday or Derby fans the perils of that. Clubs we have to aspire to have used loans well, Birmingham with Forsell, Bolton with Djoerkaeff and Pompey with Smertin for example.

I was less happy in recent years in division 1 when we seemed to be continually plugging our defence with short term loan signings, who could only play for us for 3 month spells ans who could be recalled by their clubs at any time. But the Ventola/Serondo deals are different as those players are ours for the whole season.

ebyeeckeagle
02-09-2004, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by alexthefatdawg
OK - It's just me then!

Alex, actually I agree with your general view on loans, though I do not see anything else we can do to be honest.

I just do not like what the loan system has become. It was supposed to be temp cover for injuries and to give first team experience to youngsters. It is now a disticnt market in itself, that allows bigger clubs to build up massive squads, and distorts the real transfer market and wage structure.

We should again ban loans between clubs in the same league, though this would only work if spread across Europe, to avoid just taking on more foreigners (so cant/wont happen). But this would have the effect that clubs may actually sell their players (and more on the market brings the transfer price down and the wages). Won't happen. So Chelsea et all will have 50 player squads, ten or twenty loaned out to keep them happy, but who cant play against them.

Kenny
02-09-2004, 10:33 AM
In our position loan deals can work well. If the small possibility of us going back down becomes reality, we won't be financially trapped by players who don't want to play for us in a lower division.

The motivation for the players from Inter is being able to show how good they are at Premiership level to Inter so either Inter will be desperate to get them back at the end of the season, or alternatively create a market for themselves by advertising their skills which would be hidden in the Inter reserve team.

The 1st couple of seasons back in the top flight are always touch and go, but Charlton and Portsmouth have shown what can be done without taking too much of a financial risk, and after a couple of seasons, more money's available and good players are prepared to put their lot in for a longer term Premiership career.

Levski
03-09-2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Kenny
In our position loan deals can work well. If the small possibility of us going back down becomes reality, we won't be financially trapped by players who don't want to play for us in a lower division.



Small possibility!!

I like your optimism.