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HARRY MONK
28-11-2004, 08:27 AM
The SP says Dowie is stepping up his search for a striker and is looking at the watford forward.

cpfc_spc1982
28-11-2004, 08:30 AM
hes always liked him. we do have a lot of strikers though.

paf
28-11-2004, 08:40 AM
Strikers??? Why all this talk of strikers. We play one up front, have 6 strikers in our squad, 5 of which do a few keepie uppies and a reserve kickabout..... lets get another one in.

Ben H
28-11-2004, 10:13 AM
We need to strengthen all areas IMHO. We might have lots of strikers but only one of them is good enough.

Same for centre halfs - only Hall looks the class act.

As for the midfield, if one of the trio of Aki, Hughes and Watson gets injured, who is there to come in?

Dave
28-11-2004, 10:19 AM
Strikers??? Why all this talk of strikers. We play one up front, have 6 strikers in our squad, 5 of which do a few keepie uppies and a reserve kickabout..... lets get another one in.The reason we play one up front is because the other strikers are either injured, too mental to mix with the public or not good enough.

We need another quality forward.

cpfc_spc1982
28-11-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Dave
The reason we play one up front is because the other strikers are either injured, too mental to mix with the public or not good enough.

We need another quality forward.

more to do with an effective formation id say.

Eagle Andy
28-11-2004, 10:42 AM
We play one up front as Dowie said he needs the extra men in midfield at this level. So I agree we don't need another striker.

We do need another midfielder or 2. Who do we have to come in if Hughes, Watson or Aki get injured. Derry has gone. Leigertwood is untested. Who else is there? It would be good to get a midfielder who could get a few goals. It's been good to see Wayne, Aki, Hughes and Kolkka chip in with a few recently but we need this consistently.....

Iain Dowie
28-11-2004, 10:43 AM
I always like Danny Webber,Jason Roberts and Dave Kitson,one of them in mind,or aren't they ready for the big time yet?

Pistike
28-11-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by cpfc_spc1982
more to do with an effective formation id say.

I agree, its got more to do with Hughes and Aki / Aki and Watson / Watson and Hughes not being up to the job.

Lets bring in a midfielder, a left back and a striker.

Raoul Duke
28-11-2004, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Dave
The reason we play one up front is because the other strikers are either injured, too mental to mix with the public or not good enough.



lol.

Torghelle and Kaviedes are the biggest disappointment of the season so far. If they don't improve rapidly I don't see that we have much choice than to invest in another striker.

Martin H
28-11-2004, 11:15 AM
If we are to regularly play 2 up front we will have to strengthen the midfield. Any middle 2 we can put together aren't strong enough. When it happens, and I am pretty certain it will happen, it does mean that 2 of the current 3 will go missing from the middle.

This will be unpopular as any missing combination will include some fan's favourites. Hughes, Watson and Aki all are favourites of the fans.

Watson's progress may be stunted by dropping out of the team. I do think he is progressing very well and yesterday I felt he again grew in stature for someone learning his trade still.

If we get the right player - imagine a fit Petit playing to 80% of his 'world best' (I am not suggesting him but using him as an example) sitting in front of the back four. Who would we play with him. Despite his brilliant form I don't think Aki would be in the side often. I think Watson is the best style blend but I suspect it would be Hughesey. Give Watson another month and he may change that.

Having cracked that then we need the right player up front with AJ. SO who is that. Someone like Dickov would have worked despite them both being small. I suspect we will plump for a big but mobile striker. Blackstock would have been intersting despite his game yesterday. Carlton Cole. All names we have been interested in. Does Helguson fit any of these - I haven't seen much of him

Clapham Grand
28-11-2004, 12:02 PM
This is an old story. We are linked with Helguson every three months or so

MasterYoda
28-11-2004, 12:05 PM
we need Ventola back soon at least so we can work out if he's the second striker we need.

gjtango
28-11-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Raoul Duke
lol.

Torghelle and Kaviedes are the biggest disappointment of the season so far. If they don't improve rapidly I don't see that we have much choice than to invest in another striker.

IMO Torghelle has been quality in the games where he's been given some minutes on the pitch.

MasterYoda
28-11-2004, 12:15 PM
before his injury I'd agree but he's been rubbish since bar 10 minutes in the Carling cup game at Charlton

CanveyEagle
28-11-2004, 12:18 PM
Helguson is no better than we have..............We have bought Andrews for the future, so on the basis that we may (and I stress may) go down and AJ may leave, we should look for a strike pairing to get us up again, and thus I would go for Dean Ashton......................cant see Kaviedes or ST staying if we are relegated

If we do stay up Ashton can be bought in slowly.................

HARRY MONK
28-11-2004, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by MasterYoda
before his injury I'd agree but he's been rubbish since bar 10 minutes in the Carling cup game at Charlton
has he played since then ? remember he is 22 just joined a struggling club in the premiership from abroad. henry, bergkamp and angel to name a few took time settle in better teams.

nottsunieagle
28-11-2004, 01:44 PM
helguson is not good enough imo. if we go for a striker it should be ashton.

Golf Boy
28-11-2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Ben H
We need to strengthen all areas IMHO. We might have lots of strikers but only one of them is good enough.



What about Ventola?

Sussex Eagle
28-11-2004, 01:51 PM
*cough, cough* ELLINGTON! GET ANOTHER MORTGAGE IF YOU NEED TO SIMON!

We have 7 or 8 strikers - AJ is fantastic, Dougie can play a role, Ventola looked not bad but has taken an age to recover from this injury, Kaviedes & Torghelle look to have some potential but are possible nutters - and I doubt the rest will ever measure up. If anything, the lack of a second striker in AJ's league is the biggest hole in our squad. It seriously restricts our options. Helguson probably ain't that hole-filler. Would happily settle for Ashton - or even a fit and in form Ventola.

Super Mabbutt
28-11-2004, 01:53 PM
Helguson will not be the answer.

Curry
28-11-2004, 02:09 PM
Ashton or Ellington. Good call. Why weren't we in for Earnshaw? AJ and Earnshaw would have been awesome.

KungFuCharlie
28-11-2004, 04:53 PM
Cos Earnshaw is shite would be my guess.

Helguson is not good enough, Ashton is, and Wigan have no reason to sell Ellington.

dave_who_ru
28-11-2004, 05:09 PM
Reading the article in Saturday's Guardian on Andy Johnson the following snippet is particularly relevant:-

"Today (one day last week) everyone's had a day off but he's (Dowie) brought me, Dougie (Freedman) and Sandor (Torghelle) in to do a bit of finishing. We do that every two or three weeks and we work hard. We work at my weaknesses but at my strengths as well."

This seems to confirm that these are Dowie's top 3 strikers. Problem is has he given up on Sandor already. At the end of the day I would rather see the defence strenghtened.

Braders
28-11-2004, 05:34 PM
Reports in some papers today,have Leeds ready to bid 1 million for Dean Ashton :eek: as the player now wants to play at a higher level.Surely we would be a better option :p than Leeds,or maybe Dowie might have this deal already sealed for January........hope so

Tripod 10
28-11-2004, 07:50 PM
Helhuson is not good enough for this level,he is the sort of player we would have already purchased if we did not get promotion.I think maybe Ventola could be the answer(if he stays fit).

Would be happy with Ashton though.

Shipp Ahoy!
28-11-2004, 07:54 PM
Leeds at a higher level? How does that work :eek:
Leeds are now a lower mid table championship team, the sooner they realise that the better they will be.

Gooders
28-11-2004, 08:08 PM
We can't afford to risk taking Ellington, Ashton or Helguson. If we are to bring in another striker, it should somebody proven.

Celestial Empire
28-11-2004, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by Braders
Reports in some papers today,have Leeds ready to bid 1 million for Dean Ashton :eek: as the player now wants to play at a higher level.Surely we would be a better option :p than Leeds,or maybe Dowie might have this deal already sealed for January........hope so

Kite flying by Crewe to see if they can get a big club interested ? If not, sell to Palace.
Although I have a horrible feeling he'll go to Blackburn or (again :hmph: ) bloody Everton.

spt1978
28-11-2004, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
We can't afford to risk taking Ellington, Ashton or Helguson. If we are to bring in another striker, it should somebody proven.

I take your point but I think the wages and transfer fee would be a problem when signing a proven prem striker. Think Ashton would be a good signing, from seeing him for England u21 looks like he could make the step up. On the crewe rivals message board they are talking a fee of 1.5m which isnt too bad and his wages wouldnt be sky high. Also if we went down (dont think we will) him a AJ would score enough goals for us to come straight back up.

hughff
28-11-2004, 10:10 PM
Would not be inspired if this signing came to pass.

Sussex Eagle
28-11-2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Curry
Ashton or Ellington. Good call. Why weren't we in for Earnshaw? AJ and Earnshaw would have been awesome.

Too similar to AJ - a pair of speedy midgets wouldn't work - we need a bit of size and power.

ANDYEAGLE
28-11-2004, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
We can't afford to risk taking Ellington, Ashton or Helguson. If we are to bring in another striker, it should somebody proven.

In the case of Ashton or Ellington both these strikers have the quality to make it in the premier of course not proven but nor was AJ. To get the equivalent of a proven striker it would cost a fortune that is if they would ever come to Palace. There is no chance of Ellington because Wigan will not sell but Ashton there is a chance we can get him at a reasonable price, forget the 3 million half that. He would be a great signing for us. Sign him.

BW_Palace
29-11-2004, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by spt1978
I take your point but I think the wages and transfer fee would be a problem when signing a proven prem striker. Think Ashton would be a good signing, from seeing him for England u21 looks like he could make the step up. On the crewe rivals message board they are talking a fee of 1.5m which isnt too bad and his wages wouldnt be sky high. Also if we went down (dont think we will) him a AJ would score enough goals for us to come straight back up.

Didn't we get a 2m bid rejected?

Fatman
29-11-2004, 08:25 AM
I think we need cover in the centre of midfield in case Aki, Hughes or Watson get injured. Don't think we've got too much cover there to be honest

cpfc_spc1982
29-11-2004, 09:08 AM
we had a 2mil bid turned down for ashton ?? why would his value have gone down after such a good start to the season.

GanbareWashi
29-11-2004, 09:44 AM
I can not see us changing our formation and I can not see us rotating our strikers. Therefore the only striker to get a run of games and prove himself is AJ (and rightly so). So why would we want to buy another striker, to play in the reserves without having a chance to prove himself. No, we do not need any more strikers this season ....

RednBlue
29-11-2004, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Iain Dowie
I always like Danny Webber,Jason Roberts and Dave Kitson,one of them in mind,or aren't they ready for the big time yet? Agreed we should be looking at Kitson....and if we don't snaffle him from Reading, someone else will.

gold76
29-11-2004, 10:12 AM
Helguson's a striker in Dowie's image, a tidy player but I'm not sure if he's premiership quality. Ashton would be a great signing as he's young & would develop under Dowie as AJ has done. I cant see Wigan let the duke go, but like others have suggested, Kitson wouldn't be a bad alternative.

nicky
29-11-2004, 10:24 AM
Leeds can pay 1m for Ashton, but cant afford 300k for Derry ?

Shipp Ahoy!
29-11-2004, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by cpfc_spc1982
we had a 2mil bid turned down for ashton ?? why would his value have gone down after such a good start to the season.

Because they are probably starting to realise they can't afford to keep hold of him, as i doubt they are amazingly well off and the player wants to leave. Also does anyone know when his contract expires? I heard a rumour its end of the season, in which case they may have to settle for something like a million.

Personally I would rather we got someone along the lines of Ashton or prefferably (sp?) Ellington. Nathan is incredibly strong and a very powerful striker, with a proven hit rate in division one from the last couple of seasons, would like to see if like AJ he could transfer that to the big stage.

BW_Palace
29-11-2004, 10:34 AM
Amazing if we got Ellington but I can't see it happening - they wanted 10million at the start of the season and I think Wigan will go up.

Batsta
29-11-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Gooders
We can't afford to risk taking Ellington, Ashton or Helguson. If we are to bring in another striker, it should somebody proven.

What someone that scored 20 goals In the Premiership?

um....? We can't afford proven players. Dowie has to take a gamble, i.e young players that will Improve.

Sussex Eagle
29-11-2004, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by BW_Palace
Amazing if we got Ellington but I can't see it happening - they wanted 10million at the start of the season and I think Wigan will go up.

I think he would be worth it if Simon could afford to really go for it and bid say 4-5 million (huge for us I know) - I suspect if the player himself wanted the move they would probably accept a big bid like that.

Beanie
29-11-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Raoul Duke
lol.

Torghelle and Kaviedes are the biggest disappointment of the season so far. If they don't improve rapidly I don't see that we have much choice than to invest in another striker.
How can they really be a disappointment - neither of them have played enough to disappoint.

The 4-5-1 formation has proved effective, and while AJ keeps scoring nobody else will get a look in, that's not their fault though. The problem is that they were signed with 4-4-2 in mind (it's how the season started) and now we've switched formation on them. If AJ were to be out for whatever reason we'd see if they can cut it.

Brett
29-11-2004, 01:09 PM
Lots of experts questioning if HH is Premiership quality. LOL. Check his Premiership record...

AFAIC, he'd be the perfect foil for AJ.

Brett
29-11-2004, 01:11 PM
BTW - the answer you're looking for is 6 goals in 16 Premiership appearances.

jazman
29-11-2004, 01:15 PM
Can't see it to be honest unless a couple of strikers are due to go soon

Nelson Muntz
29-11-2004, 01:17 PM
Helguson is a quality player. Impressed me every time I've seen him.
I say buy.

adrenalin john
29-11-2004, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Super Mabbutt
Helguson will not be the answer.

a quick question who is that Icelandic bloke who plays up front for Watford?

adrenalin john
29-11-2004, 01:25 PM
on amore serous note the guy is a classic centre forward but with exceptional leap, mobility and work rate. I have long been a fan and would love him to play alongside AJ. However we are currently playing 451 not 442.

Brett
29-11-2004, 01:27 PM
I think he could play 451 with HH if we needed to rest AJ (or God forbid, the Son of God got injured - whereas ID is God).

BVB Bob
29-11-2004, 01:30 PM
Not the first time we've been linked with him.

http://forums.cpfc.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48884&highlight=helguson

Tommy Pickle
29-11-2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by CanveyEagle
Helguson is no better than we have..............We have bought Andrews for the future, so on the basis that we may (and I stress may) go down and AJ may leave, we should look for a strike pairing to get us up again, and thus I would go for Dean Ashton......................cant see Kaviedes or ST staying if we are relegated

If we do stay up Ashton can be bought in slowly.................

Andrews is 27, if anyone was bought for the future it was Sandor. Agree that Ashton would be a great signing tho.

honeysuckle
29-11-2004, 04:06 PM
It's beginning to look as if Shipps is out of the first team reckoning at Palace and that Ventola is never going to be fit. Therefore a priority must be another target man.

The derided Peter Crouch was very effective when he came on for Saints on Saturday and at the moment we are missing this type of player. If AJ gets injured we are going to have to change our style of play and a target man option would be very useful.

Dean Ashton (Crewe) or Kevin Kyle (Sunderland) or Marco Vorbeck (Hansa Rostock), all of whom have been mentioned several times before would fill this role.

BVB Bob
29-11-2004, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by honeysuckle
Marco Vorbeck (Hansa Rostock)......would fill this role.

Please tell me you are joking.

Gooders
29-11-2004, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Brett
Lots of experts questioning if HH is Premiership quality. LOL. Check his Premiership record...

AFAIC, he'd be the perfect foil for AJ.

Fair enough. I'm not saying he's no good, just that it would be a gamble. If he was that great, wouldn't he have scored bucketloads of goals in Division 1?

Brett
29-11-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Fair enough. I'm not saying he's no good, just that it would be a gamble. If he was that great, wouldn't he have scored bucketloads of goals in Division 1?

Probably but the crazy Ray Lewington prefers Webber and Dyer... and he's always played in a 'team-in-transition'*. Never really ideal for getting a run in the team and therefore a bucketful of goals.

Even so, his Watford career has produced a goal every (approx) two and a half games.

* The number of squad overhauls they have had since playing in the Premiership is quite staggering.

GreatGonzo
29-11-2004, 04:39 PM
Helgerson is a good player, would give us better heading ability up front and would be able to provide knock ons and knock downs for AJ.

Ashton however is younger and has a better strike rate, the question is how he would be able to play a similar role. He is used to being the main source of goals at Crewe not a striker looking to support someone else!

If we get the right striker in we would be able to make the ball stick up front and then we may be able to change the formation. At the moment i think Aki and Watson look the best Centre mid partnership but Ben is young and has his off games. Will be very interesting to see what happens come January as teams prepare for AJ and he is easier to handle when you have 2 CB's looking after him! Take one of them away to look after another striker and AJ might be able to step it up yet another gear. Trouble is it doesn't seem we have the right partner for him at the club at the moment.

KungFuCharlie
29-11-2004, 04:41 PM
Let's just buy Ashton, then we can halve the number of messages left on the BBS

Brett
29-11-2004, 04:49 PM
Ashton has been playing all the time, in a team set-up to score goals and primarily in League One. He's a good player but he's more Dougie Freedman than Andy Johnson; he won't lead the line.

CK
29-11-2004, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by BVB Bob
Please tell me you are joking.


"Lanky bugger with an "unfortunate" face. " That the one???:D

Celestial Empire
29-11-2004, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Brett
Ashton has been playing all the time, in a team set-up to score goals and primarily in League One. He's a good player but he's more Dougie Freedman than Andy Johnson; he won't lead the line.

But he is quick and quite big.
Helguson seems to have a lot of time off injured (to be fair to Ray Lew).

muswell eagle
30-11-2004, 08:53 PM
Helguson has scored v Portsmouth and Ashton has scored v Millwall tonight.

My Watford supporting friends rate Helguson very highly and at this time of the season, I would go for the older player.

Ashton had his chance in the summer.

HARRY MONK
30-11-2004, 09:45 PM
helguson scores secong against portsmouth

Freddy Kurz
30-11-2004, 10:49 PM
Ashton is a tremendous young prospect, just 21, H. 6ft. 2ins,W.12.08
scoring League goals at the ratio of 1 goal every 3 games for Crewe A.
Helguson, an Icelander(25 caps), is 27, H. 5.10 W 12.09 has scored
his goals for Watford at the rate of 1 every 3.5 games. Helguson
although lacking height is very strong in the air and leads a for-
ward-line well.

Gerry from Sussex
30-11-2004, 10:51 PM
I suppose the rumours about wormhead will start again soon

cpfc_spc1982
30-11-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Brett
Ashton has been playing all the time, in a team set-up to score goals and primarily in League One. He's a good player but he's more Dougie Freedman than Andy Johnson; he won't lead the line.

he led the line very well against us last season.

Sussex Eagle
30-11-2004, 10:56 PM
*Sneaks a tape recorder quietly spewing "NOTGNILLE NAHTAN" into Jordan's bedroom as he sleeps*

smileysmith
01-12-2004, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Sussex Eagle
*Sneaks a tape recorder quietly spewing "NOTGNILLE NAHTAN" into Jordan's bedroom as he sleeps*

Can't see Wigan selling now ...

Brett
01-12-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by cpfc_spc1982
he led the line very well against us last season.

Did he? Didn't we get slaughtered by them because Ashton dropped off and Jones raided from wide, thereby leaving our central defenders at sixes and sevens?

Shipp Ahoy!
01-12-2004, 11:47 AM
I think that we should trust Dowies judgement.

But then again the BBS would be pretty quiet if we went along with that line :p

LP
01-12-2004, 12:59 PM
Helguson would do a job for us, although whether we are going to drop 4-5-1 in order to incorperate another striker remains to be seen. That perhaps depends on whether we're able to add a quality midfielder to the squad. However, I'd go for Ashton out of the 2. He is much younger and has real promise and lets be honest if the worst comes to the worst we go down we'll lose AJ and Ashton would be a player who could definately fire the goals to take us back up and ease the blow of AJ going. The Watford player I'd take is Webber, although he's injured right now I think.