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sam bater
13-12-2004, 08:42 AM
Just seen this on SSN:

Roma eye Sandor swoop

Italian reports have suggested that Roma are eyeing a shock swoop for Crystal Palace striker Sandor Torghelle.

The struggling Italian giants are bracing themselves for the likes of skipper Francesco Totti and star youngster Antonio Cassano leaving the club.

Financial problems have played their part in Roma sliding away from the Serie A title race and joining the also-rans down in ninth spot - already 18 points off the pace.

Roma expect both Totti and Cassano to leave in the near future, and are looking for cut-price alternatives - leading to a shock swoop on Crystal Palace.

Reports in Italy suggest Roma believe Torghelle could be one for the future, although the 22-year-old is struggling for first team football at Selhurst Park.

Torghelle says that he has heard about the reports linking him with a Stadio Olimpico switch.

"I've heard about these reports but I can't say more about it," Torghelle told Hungarian website www.nb1.hu.

"It would be a huge honour for me if my name was really connected with the Italian giants, but one should know that I don't play in the same position as Cassano."

st albans
13-12-2004, 08:46 AM
jesus, i know they have been having a rough time of it, but signing Sandor must mean they are desperate

After sat's performance i dont want to see him play for us again. prospect or no prospect, theres no place for what he did a) against charlton, and b) against Blackburn

davematt
13-12-2004, 08:46 AM
Roma must be desparate, as Torghelle looks the worst striker in a Palace shirt since Thomas Brolin. Get 1,000,000 and we will be well chuffed.

The Omen
13-12-2004, 08:54 AM
Show him the door. Try and get our money back and forget this talented footballer with a crazy attitude.

Good riddance to bad rubbish if true.

HARRY MONK
13-12-2004, 09:09 AM
For f#cks sake he has only just arrived.He is only 22 and in a foriegn country. if all the imports where sold for diving / play acting 75% would be out of the english game.Norwich away his debut was one of the best debuts ive seen in a palace shirt.Then he was injured and has only been involved in 5 games since 3 as a sub.At charlton in the cup he was quality and scored an outstanding goal, arguably our best of the season.then he was sent off for diving a second booking.if rooney had been sent off for a second booking for his dive against arsenal would man u sell him!!!!! dowie will sort him out in the correct way to conduct himself in the english game. there really are some t#ats on this site.

Jasper
13-12-2004, 09:14 AM
Yeah Cash in on him. Im not at all impressed with what ive seen, although I do appreciate that it will take time for him to settle. Ive always been suprised at the general praise he gets on this website compared to the criticism that Kaviedes recieves when neither have played much first team football. Personally I dont like players who dive, or players who always look likely to get booked or sent off.

GanbareWashi
13-12-2004, 09:20 AM
Could be a great talent in the future, but is a liability now. Cash in on him.

Lion
13-12-2004, 09:23 AM
Looks like the idiotic boo boys are on his case already then.

PhilD
13-12-2004, 09:33 AM
I don't think we should give up on him so soon after signing him. Afterall, he has only been here 5 minutes and as Harry Monk points out moving to a foreign country as a 22 year old can't be easy. After the Norwich game he was going to be the best thing since sliced bread according to a lot of people on here. It's not as if he's had a great number of opportunities to prove himself. The play-acting element of his game certainly isn't great, but it is common place in football, he just hasn't learnt how to be less obvious about it yet. I'd be amazed if Roma wanted him, but I guess we'd probably let him go if they offered more than we paid for him. Having said that he'd probably then go and get 12 goals in serie a and then be valued at 10 million by the end of the season.

Jasper
13-12-2004, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Lion
Looks like the idiotic boo boys are on his case already then.



I dont think its a case of the 'Boo Boys' but if Roma offer something in the region of 3million then why not let him go. Besides If an offer comes in and he wants to go then why not let him.

davematt
13-12-2004, 09:42 AM
Have any of you guys been to reserve games????

From all accounts, he turns reserve games into 22 man brawls. He is a liability, and unless he can learn to control himself, we might as well get rid.

ANDYEAGLE
13-12-2004, 09:56 AM
I thought in the last reserve game he done okay playing with Shipps in the 1-0 win in which he scored in. I think he will temper his aggression.He is only young and raw and in my opinion should still be behind Shipps in the pecking order. He has potential but obviously if we get offered a decent fee like any of our fringe players we must consider it. Cant see us getting much of a fee if any but personally I am happy if he stays.

Ruskin Old Boy
13-12-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by davematt
Have any of you guys been to reserve games????

From all accounts, he turns reserve games into 22 man brawls. He is a liability, and unless he can learn to control himself, we might as well get rid.

Yes, I go; to which games are you referring to?

davematt
13-12-2004, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Ruskin Old Boy
Yes, I go; to which games are you referring to?

Well my Dad goes to every home one, and says this of Torghelle, and I was at the Derby game which was quite a relaxing game, until Sandor made a ridicolous challenge and all hell broke loose.

pendral
13-12-2004, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Jasper
I dont think its a case of the 'Boo Boys' but if Roma offer something in the region of 3million then why not let him go. Besides If an offer comes in and he wants to go then why not let him.

I think the point of going for someone like Torghelle is that you dont have to pay 3 million, rather about a tenth of that

Twiggy
13-12-2004, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by davematt
Have any of you guys been to reserve games????

From all accounts, he turns reserve games into 22 man brawls. He is a liability, and unless he can learn to control himself, we might as well get rid.

ROB.....I think the key quote here is "From all accounts"....:rolleyes:

Nelson Muntz
13-12-2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by HARRY MONK
For f#cks sake he has only just arrived.He is only 22 and in a foriegn country. if all the imports where sold for diving / play acting 75% would be out of the english game.Norwich away his debut was one of the best debuts ive seen in a palace shirt.Then he was injured and has only been involved in 5 games since 3 as a sub.At charlton in the cup he was quality and scored an outstanding goal, arguably our best of the season.then he was sent off for diving a second booking.if rooney had been sent off for a second booking for his dive against arsenal would man u sell him!!!!! dowie will sort him out in the correct way to conduct himself in the english game. there really are some t#ats on this site.
Agreed.

davematt
13-12-2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Twiggy
ROB.....I think the key quote here is "From all accounts"....:rolleyes:

Well I find my old man quite a reliable match reporter, and he is one for giving players a chance, but he has not time for Torghelle.

Shipp Ahoy!
13-12-2004, 10:21 AM
Hate to say it but so far he has been a utter disgrace to the Palace shirt. He has made no real impact on the first team, and a little birdie tells me Dowie is fed up with him.

If a half decent offer does come in, I have a feeling that he will be off. No matter how short his time at the club. Oh and if it helps us bring in a really decent striker such as Ashton (as unlikely as some people say it is) then I am all for it.

nookiebear
13-12-2004, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Lion
Looks like the idiotic boo boys are on his case already then.

I don't think it's a case of being boo boys

For me, Torghelle has only made three contributions to CPFC in the (granted) short time he's been here

Scored a cracker at Charlton - a good thing
Got sent off for Diving - a very bad thing
Nearly got sent off for play-acting and got a fellow professional sent off as well - an extremely bad thing

His temperament could be excused if we were 10th and he'd scored 8 or 9 goals, but we're not - all we have is a striker who cost 750,000 sitting in the reserves who until Sat hasn't even been near the bench in weeks.

If we change to 4-4-2, I want Shipps back in the side, not Torghelle -at least he causes problems to defenses, not other players and refs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Torghelle is sold or loaned out in Jan

Ralph
13-12-2004, 10:29 AM
This feels too much like Ismael, Fuller and Collymore to me! I dont think we should "risk" selling him yet!!

BW_Palace
13-12-2004, 10:32 AM
Roma most be looking for a true replacement for Cassano then.

Torghelle - play-acting, diving, hmm. Sounds about right. ;)

If we get an offer of around 1m we should take it IMO - sooner or later I can see Torghelle getting sent off (in a Prem game).

sydnsteve
13-12-2004, 10:35 AM
All I know is what he did on Sat was utterly inexcusable. First the foul, studs up, and then that disgusting play acting. What we do with him is nether here nor ther, but unless he gets his head together I can't see Dowie putting up with it.

Ruskin Old Boy
13-12-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Twiggy
ROB.....I think the key quote here is "From all accounts"....:rolleyes:

He was brought down in the Derby game and retaliated when the guy had a dig at him (happened right in front of us so we couldn't miss it). Ref booked him for retaliation and gave a free kick the wrong way; anyone there that evening will tell you that the ref lost it long before that.

As for a 22 man brawl, Torghelle shouldn't get the blame for the actions of other players, it's down to them if they get involved - Butters ran 50 yards to confront the Derby player who went down as if pole-axed.

If the boo boys on here had bothered to read what Dowie has said - that Torghelle hasn't been the same since the injury sustained against Scotland but that they were confident he would make it - then they would know that the management doesn't share their point of view.

But, hey, don't let's get in the way of rubbishing our own players

Clapham Grand
13-12-2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by Jasper
I dont think its a case of the 'Boo Boys' but if Roma offer something in the region of 3million then why not let him go. Besides If an offer comes in and he wants to go then why not let him.

Agree with this

Clapham Grand
13-12-2004, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by nookiebear
I don't think it's a case of being boo boys

For me, Torghelle has only made three contributions to CPFC in the (granted) short time he's been here

Scored a cracker at Charlton - a good thing
Got sent off for Diving - a very bad thing
Nearly got sent off for play-acting and got a fellow professional sent off as well - an extremely bad thing

His temperament could be excused if we were 10th and he'd scored 8 or 9 goals, but we're not - all we have is a striker who cost 750,000 sitting in the reserves who until Sat hasn't even been near the bench in weeks.

If we change to 4-4-2, I want Shipps back in the side, not Torghelle -at least he causes problems to defenses, not other players and refs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Torghelle is sold or loaned out in Jan
Couldn't have out this better myself.

There are no booboys here, I have never had Sandor bbod, but Nookiebear sums up his contribution so far succinctly

RDSdaEAGLE
13-12-2004, 10:42 AM
Anyone who thinks Roma would offer anything more than 500k is living a lie.

They're in real financial hardship.

davematt
13-12-2004, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Ralph
This feels too much like Ismael, Fuller and Collymore to me! I dont think we should "risk" selling him yet!!

Knowing our luck we will sell him to Roma and he goes on to be European player of the year.

landeval
13-12-2004, 10:46 AM
Why would Roma want him? He scored twice against Germany and that it.
I do not think he is a PL quality player yet, he will become one in time but he has to learn how to behave.
His still fit PL more the Italian league, he is classical power football player not a technical one.

Cleon
13-12-2004, 10:46 AM
Personally I still feel that Torghelle has a lot of potential, and that we need to be harnessing that potential. Yes, he has a somewhat suspect temprement, but so did that t**s-w**k Cantona, Gazza and Wayne Rooney, but I can't imagine we'd have been complaining if we had ever harnessed their collective ability. He went down like he'd been shot on Saturday, but then so did Sami Hyppia when Dougie tangled with him a couple of years ago. It's not sporting, and hope Dowie sets him straight, but that doesn't mean he should be jettisoned immediately.

Some players need a little while settle - especially people with no knowledge of the local language and culture. Andy Johnson looked a bit pony in his first 3-4 months, and he had a proper run in the team. He looked poor again after his initial purple patch.

If AS Roma are interested in Torghelle (and it sounds like rubbish, but hey, let's not let that get in the way of the rumour mill), then it suggests that they can see his ability and/or potential. He looked great in his first few games for us, and I think we need to retain him to see if he can rediscover that form when Dowie chooses to play 4-4-2.

Shoreditch CPFC
13-12-2004, 10:47 AM
it would be a shame to let him go so soon, but do we have the time for him to find his feet, given the importance of staying up this season ? Also would like to see an apology for the play acting on Sat.

bkcbongo
13-12-2004, 12:17 PM
he might or might not have potential, but he's done little but embarrass himself so far.

whatever happens come the end of this season, i want to be able to say that i am proud of the players. How anyone could watch sandor rolling around on saturday and not feel ashamed that thats a Palace player I dont know. It would be no more excusable if he'd done anything good.

with ventola sidelined and kaviedes yet to be ready, I dont know if we could afford to gamble on selling right now. But i hope Dowie gives him a good slap cos I dont want to see that from a Palace player again!

glaziers fan
13-12-2004, 12:32 PM
He's a good player with far more mobility than Shipps for example. Yes he is raw but I like his agression. It hasn't stopped Alan Smith winning England caps for example. Does he dive? Yes. More than Andy Johnson? Probably not.

Having said all that, if Dowie wants to play a 28 year old from Colchester Utd ahead of a proven International, I think he is better off looking for a new club.

Maybe he has an attitude problem cos otherwise I can't understand why Dowie dropped him after he was injured in the first place. Was our best player on the opening day of the season.

cpfc_spc1982
13-12-2004, 12:41 PM
if they offer anything like what we payed id get rid and use it towards an increased bid for ashton.

mojoeagle
13-12-2004, 12:42 PM
Imo we should keep him, but teach him play acting is not part of crystal palace fc.

st albans
13-12-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
Does he dive? Yes. More than Andy Johnson? Probably not.

going down holding your face when you havent been touched is a completely different thing. it's completely inexcusable and along with spitting i find disgusting about our game

Brett
13-12-2004, 12:43 PM
Roma haven't got two pennies to rub together. The club is on the verge of imploding.

st albans
13-12-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by mojoeagle
Imo we should keep him, but teach him play acting is not part of crystal palace fc.

problem is that apparently Dowie had a word with him after the Charlton 'play acting' and clearly hasnt learnt his lesson. hopefully Dowie (the club) will punish him for sat, sit him down and say 'do it again and you're out'

MAX
13-12-2004, 12:47 PM
Well I like Sandy.Thought he looked good in pre season friendlies.ID will sort him out and as for suggesting Shipps would be a better bet -----------!!!!!!!!

JFBeagle
13-12-2004, 12:49 PM
I'm not at all bothered about Torgehelle but if he goes - Gabor will probably go as well. Sandor is worth it just to give Gabor someone to talk to.

Bartman
13-12-2004, 12:53 PM
Sandor is having a very tough time settling in and the club are getting people around him in the hope that this will help things.

gold76
13-12-2004, 12:54 PM
Whether the Roma rumours are true or not, the signs are not good. The potential is there but I'm not sure if we're the ones who are gonna harness it.

davematt
13-12-2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by JFBeagle
I'm not at all bothered about Torgehelle but if he goes - Gabor will probably go as well. Sandor is worth it just to give Gabor someone to talk to.

Dont think thats the case. Gabor is not going to walk away from 1st team football, and he has settled down very well I have heard.

EddieEdwards
13-12-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by st albans
theres no place for what he did a) against charlton, and b) against BlackburnOf course there is. Italy. :)

JFBeagle
13-12-2004, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by davematt
Dont think thats the case. Gabor is not going to walk away from 1st team football, and he has settled down very well I have heard.
But I believe they both hardly speak a word of English. And I don't think anyone else speaks Hungarian. It will be lonely with noone to talk to!

cpfc_spc1982
13-12-2004, 01:16 PM
theres some big guy who is always with gabor and sandor.

davematt
13-12-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by JFBeagle
But I believe they both hardly speak a word of English. And I don't think anyone else speaks Hungarian. It will be lonely with noone to talk to!

I am sure they are learning. Anyway, Gabor has only just got the number one jersey and its the first time he has had it for a while as his last season at Hertha were spent as back up, so he his hardly going to walk out if sandor leaves.

smileysmith
13-12-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
Personally I still feel that Torghelle has a lot of potential, and that we need to be harnessing that potential. Yes, he has a somewhat suspect temprement, but so did that t**s-w**k Cantona, Gazza and Wayne Rooney, but I can't imagine we'd have been complaining if we had ever harnessed their collective ability. He went down like he'd been shot on Saturday, but then so did Sami Hyppia when Dougie tangled with him a couple of years ago. It's not sporting, and hope Dowie sets him straight, but that doesn't mean he should be jettisoned immediately.

Some players need a little while settle - especially people with no knowledge of the local language and culture. Andy Johnson looked a bit pony in his first 3-4 months, and he had a proper run in the team. He looked poor again after his initial purple patch.

If AS Roma are interested in Torghelle (and it sounds like rubbish, but hey, let's not let that get in the way of the rumour mill), then it suggests that they can see his ability and/or potential. He looked great in his first few games for us, and I think we need to retain him to see if he can rediscover that form when Dowie chooses to play 4-4-2.

Agree 100% (as usual) - great post.

skorpie
13-12-2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by JFBeagle
But I believe they both hardly speak a word of English. And I don't think anyone else speaks Hungarian. It will be lonely with noone to talk to!


As I heard Kiraly is improving while the only word Torghelle knows is Super :o I don't think Gabor would go if Sanyi does. Gabi is not the type who leaves a club after 6 months especially when playing regularly in the first team.

LeeH
13-12-2004, 01:23 PM
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/images/playerpics04_05/football/england/crystalpalace/torghelle_blackburn.jpg

does this image somewhat rule out the 'cheat' calls from this weekend? Looks bloody painful to me!

El Aguila
13-12-2004, 01:26 PM
Hello.....
Originally posted by Brett Roma haven't got two pennies to rub together. The club is on the verge of imploding.

this is true.

landeval
13-12-2004, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by JFBeagle
But I believe they both hardly speak a word of English. And I don't think anyone else speaks Hungarian. It will be lonely with noone to talk to!

He should join hungarian cultural centre in London
my brother lives in London and are member. Lot of Hungarian events.

http://www.hungary.org.uk/start.htm

KennyB
13-12-2004, 01:30 PM
As lots have said, he won't be the first player to dive.

But, the commentators at the Charlton game and the Blackburn game both said words like 'disgusting', 'cheat', 'disgraceful'.

I don't want to hear that about a Palace player, and not in two consecutive first team games !

Sure he has talent, and could be what we need up front. But at what cost ?

I think the writing is on the wall for him, judging by what ID said on Sky; something like "I will have another look at the incident, and if he has dived there's no place in my team for that sort of thing", or words to that effect.

So I will be surprised if he ever plays again for us.

Benzhiyi
13-12-2004, 01:34 PM
Crikey, yet another BBS bandwagon. Shall I jump aboard?

No.

Some of the hyperbole on this thread is unreal. "After sat's performance i dont want to see him play for us again." Would you have said this after Dougie's petulant display at Anfield in the cup? Have you ever said it after AJ has dived to win a penalty? I doubt it.

Yes, Sandor is taking a while to settle in and yes, he is a little aggressive. But these are the same people complaining that Wayne doesn't put his foot in, isn't aggressive enough, etc. Which do you want? Not every footballer can be a happy medium.

Hughesy leaves his foot in once a game and you all applaud him for it. A young Hungarian settling in a new country does the same and suddenly becomes a yob who's a disgrace to our club. Which is it?

For the record, Sanyi looks a good player. He was our best performer at Pompey, played well at Norwich, and also at Charlton (until his sending off) and Man U. He just needs to cut out the acting and channel his aggression, both of which I've no doubt Dowie is working on.

Now, anyone want to step off the bandwagon?

Scroatey
13-12-2004, 01:39 PM
Through a good connection to the Hungarians I understood Torghelle was bought as an emerging talent, who is confident in himself, and looked at Palace as his stepping stone to much greater things - I hope he still ends up doing the business for us, and if he is then sold on we get a tidy profit.

Personally selling him before the end of the season is a little too early, but if it meant the acquisition of someone better and with a longer-term outlook who's to disagree with selling him?

Mong!
13-12-2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Benzhiyi


Now, anyone want to step off the bandwagon?

Didn't get on it in the first place :p

Reps AJ
13-12-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by KennyB
As lots have said, he won't be the first player to dive.

But, the commentators at the Charlton game and the Blackburn game both said words like 'disgusting', 'cheat', 'disgraceful'.

I don't want to hear that about a Palace player, and not in two consecutive first team games !

It wasn't two consecutive first team games - the 1st against Charlton was the cup game, not last weeks league game

KennyB
13-12-2004, 02:11 PM
It was his second consecutive first team game.

landeval
13-12-2004, 02:12 PM
source www.nb1.hu

Torghelle told the Hungarian football site. that he read the about Roma on the web, so he could not give more info then which were found on the web. He said it would be a great honor if it would be true. He said he is not even playing on same post as Cassano, so he do think it is to much truth in the story.

Benzhiyi
13-12-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by KennyB
It was his second consecutive first team game.

No it wasn't, he played at Man Utd.

Malakite
13-12-2004, 02:17 PM
I think its pathetic if we sell him...lets give him a chance by playing the 4-4-2 system surely? Its really funny as when I suggested oXo-ing him in January to make room for more ppl laughed and said it was a silly idea, but now most people on this thread want him GONE! :eek:

KennyB
13-12-2004, 02:21 PM
2 things.

1. $h1t. I forgot about the Manure game. Apologies.

2. I don't think it's a case of people wanting him gone, just to refrain from silly antics that are so blatant. For that I think I we need to trust ID and his team to put him on the right road, because he most definitely has talent and enthusiasm, both of which we need badly right now.

nookiebear
13-12-2004, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
.

Some players need a little while settle - especially people with no knowledge of the local language and culture. Andy Johnson looked a bit pony in his first 3-4 months, and he had a proper run in the team. He looked poor again after his initial purple patch.


This perhaps, is a Dowie error, though - he's bought 4 strikers in the summer

Kaviedes and Torghelle have not settled and got anywhere near the first team
Ventola is always injured
Andrews is going to have to make a massive jump to be Prem quality

Which means none of those players have been ready for the Prem from day one, for one reason or another - but as some people have said on here, we don't have time for them to settle. Otherwise they could be settled by August when we're going to Millwall and Burnley again

We bif for Harewood and Ashton in the summer and I think we need to bid for a striker who doesn't need half a season to settle in and help AJ. We need to buy someone playing in the Prem or Div 1 who knows what it's all about

Sussex Eagle
13-12-2004, 03:21 PM
Gosh...

Wouldn't exactly be devastated to see him go, though he obviously has some potential - if we can get enough money for him to fund a bid for Nathan Ellington I'd bite their hands off. *Prays*

Sussex Eagle
13-12-2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by LeeH
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/images/playerpics04_05/football/england/crystalpalace/torghelle_blackburn.jpg

does this image somewhat rule out the 'cheat' calls from this weekend? Looks bloody painful to me!

LoL! Fairly sure he clutched at his face rather than his bollox though!

Radders
13-12-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by HARRY MONK
For f#cks sake he has only just arrived.He is only 22 and in a foriegn country. if all the imports where sold for diving / play acting 75% would be out of the english game.Norwich away his debut was one of the best debuts ive seen in a palace shirt.Then he was injured and has only been involved in 5 games since 3 as a sub.At charlton in the cup he was quality and scored an outstanding goal, arguably our best of the season.then he was sent off for diving a second booking.if rooney had been sent off for a second booking for his dive against arsenal would man u sell him!!!!! dowie will sort him out in the correct way to conduct himself in the english game. there really are some t#ats on this site.

Well said mate! :p

Lion
13-12-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Benzhiyi
Crikey, yet another BBS bandwagon. Shall I jump aboard?

No.

Some of the hyperbole on this thread is unreal. "After sat's performance i dont want to see him play for us again." Would you have said this after Dougie's petulant display at Anfield in the cup? Have you ever said it after AJ has dived to win a penalty? I doubt it.

Yes, Sandor is taking a while to settle in and yes, he is a little aggressive. But these are the same people complaining that Wayne doesn't put his foot in, isn't aggressive enough, etc. Which do you want? Not every footballer can be a happy medium.

Hughesy leaves his foot in once a game and you all applaud him for it. A young Hungarian settling in a new country does the same and suddenly becomes a yob who's a disgrace to our club. Which is it?

For the record, Sanyi looks a good player. He was our best performer at Pompey, played well at Norwich, and also at Charlton (until his sending off) and Man U. He just needs to cut out the acting and channel his aggression, both of which I've no doubt Dowie is working on.

Now, anyone want to step off the bandwagon?

Top post - Well said.

BTW - Whoever said Dowie has "bought" 4 strikers - can you re-word it - he's bought 2, and loaned 2.

sydnsteve
13-12-2004, 04:17 PM
Benzhyi, it isn't a bandwagon to say certain things are unacceptable. I think Dowie should do whatever he sees fit with him, and if he can get him playing well for CPFC then fine, but to equate diving for a penalty, which i personally would not agree with (and i don't think AJ does very much) with holding your face pretending you've been hit is a bit odd. One gets you a chance at goal, the other gets a fellow player sent off. I remember Mark hughes doing it successfully for Man U in the European Cup some years ago, and thought then it was a really petty, spiteful, dishonest way to cheat.
If Torghelle had simply left his foot in I would have no problem, but would ask him to calm down. But cheating to get a player sent off is something i find reprehensible. Perhaps others don't, that's their choice.

Bounty
13-12-2004, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by davematt
Knowing our luck we will sell him to Roma and he goes on to be European player of the year.
Now there's a thought! Where have I seen that before and WHY I wonder

Young gun looking to pull the trigger but 10 mins isn't long enough sadly.
This thread's about Roma and so if you believe that a young fledging would want to leave England after only just arriving 2 mins ago I gotta ask you what you are drinking/smoking. It ain't gonna happen but hey ho it gives "the people" something to talk about I guess.

Rufty tufty robust geezer that needs looking after not slagging off. With not much help from CPFC and no agent in the country I think he has done quite well so far.

concluding........ try going to work in a foreign country with an Alien language that you know nothing about.

nookiebear
13-12-2004, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Lion
Top post - Well said.

BTW - Whoever said Dowie has "bought" 4 strikers - can you re-word it - he's bought 2, and loaned 2.

loaned, bought, whatever - the fact remains all four of them are here and have contributed little towards the first team this season, for a variety of reasons

Extravagant for a team in our position, IMHO

zonin2000
13-12-2004, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by RDSdaEAGLE
Anyone who thinks Roma would offer anything more than 500k is living a lie.

They're in real financial hardship.

:D

Sorry, I actually burst out laughing when I read this. Not because of any factual inaccuracy, but because I thought it sounded a bit dramatic - the 'living a lie part'. It sounds as if you mean that whoever believes that is leading a life of deception and fraud, rather than simply mistaken.

Oh well, I guess I've slightly laboured the joke! :o

You, er, had to be there...


Coat :(.

Palaceboy222
13-12-2004, 04:54 PM
I've seen enough this season to see we have a player worth keeping unless someone comes in with silly cash, e.g. 1.5M+, which roma don't have

Kirby
13-12-2004, 05:18 PM
Give him a fair go.

He was quality at Norwich on the first day and had a pretty decent game away at Charlton until his dive.

If Dowie etc. can channel his aggression in a positive way he could be a real star for us.

pfc
13-12-2004, 05:34 PM
and also not a bad game down at Fratton park

Tomo
13-12-2004, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Sussex Eagle
LoL! Fairly sure he clutched at his face rather than his bollox though!

But to be fair when you get hurt people naturally tend to cover their face. As mentioned in a previous post about Torghelle in my match on Sunday a boy got tackled and went down holding his face and his leg. We all laughed and said you can get up now you won the free kick. Turned out he broke his leg.

I think faking is inexcusable but I feel he was hurt. Would you have moaned had Kiraly gone down when Dickov took him out leading to a sending off. I don't think so. It is a bandwagon and one that I will not be boarding.

Benzhiyi
13-12-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by nookiebear
Extravagant for a team in our position, IMHO

Given the Premiership's transfer windows, you can never have too many players in any position.

A couple of injuries up front and we'd need all those strikers.

honeysuckle
13-12-2004, 07:09 PM
He's a good player with far more mobility than Shipps for example. Yes he is raw but I like his agression. It hasn't stopped Alan Smith winning England caps for example. Does he dive? Yes. More than Andy Johnson? Probably not.

as posted by glaziers fan

.................................................. ............................

Yes but AJ dives in an endearing English style that has integrity and realism; Sandor on the other hand dives in a dastardly foreign way that involves unfair playacting.

Really glaziers fan you are just not comparing like with like.

pete eagle
13-12-2004, 07:28 PM
Ben's right, Liverpool is a prime example of problems in forward positions.

Eric the Ginga
13-12-2004, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by HARRY MONK
For f#cks sake he has only just arrived.He is only 22 and in a foriegn country. if all the imports where sold for diving / play acting 75% would be out of the english game.Norwich away his debut was one of the best debuts ive seen in a palace shirt.Then he was injured and has only been involved in 5 games since 3 as a sub.At charlton in the cup he was quality and scored an outstanding goal, arguably our best of the season.then he was sent off for diving a second booking.if rooney had been sent off for a second booking for his dive against arsenal would man u sell him!!!!! dowie will sort him out in the correct way to conduct himself in the english game. there really are some t#ats on this site.

Quality input, totally agree......particularly your last sentence. Good point, well made.

Eric the Ginga
13-12-2004, 07:29 PM
Torghelle is a centre forward thug in the Duncan Ferguson mould. Give him a start in a 4-4-2

Tomo
13-12-2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by honeysuckle

Yes but AJ dives in an endearing English style that has integrity and realism; Sandor on the other hand dives in a dastardly foreign way that involves unfair playacting.

Really glaziers fan you are just not comparing like with like.

Article one your honour of the get rid of Torghelle Bandwagon yet AJ can do no wrong.

Freddy Kurz
13-12-2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by HARRY MONK
For f#cks sake he has only just arrived.He is only 22 and in a foriegn country. if all the imports where sold for diving / play acting 75% would be out of the english game.Norwich away his debut was one of the best debuts ive seen in a palace shirt.Then he was injured and has only been involved in 5 games since 3 as a sub.At charlton in the cup he was quality and scored an outstanding goal, arguably our best of the season.then he was sent off for diving a second booking.if rooney had been sent off for a second booking for his dive against arsenal would man u sell him!!!!! dowie will sort him out in the correct way to conduct himself in the english game. there really are some t#ats on this site.

Having watched Torghelle on numerous occasions getting himself
repeatedly provoked booked and sent off in first-team and
reserve games, I wonder just how many times you have seen
this player in action? As things stand Dowie cannot
start him in any Premier League game, simply because our opp-
onents know precisely what they need to do to get him yellow
or red-carded, and in our precarious position, we just can't
risk being reduced to ten men before half-time on a regular
basis. However good his goal was v Chortleton in the Cup,
along with the one he recently got v Ipswich Reserves, that
still makes a grand total of only 2 goals in first team and
reserve football this season. Frankly if we can recover
our outlay on this player and put it towards a target man
with proven Premiership credentials, we should do so.
Oh! and by the way insults and abuse hurled at other
Palace fans with a point of view different to your own
does not constitute reasonable argument..........
NB Freedman has so far scored 8 goals in the League Cup
and Reserves and Kaviedes 6.

Richwak
13-12-2004, 08:05 PM
Do not sell him, he is a talent, if you said not too play any player who is know for diving or being violent then many players would not be playing. He has strength and power which to be honest out palace team is seriously lacking.

pfc
13-12-2004, 08:10 PM
the lad has potential he is one for the future. I personally want him to stay. Would we want an old has been proven striker or someone for the future. I'm sure in time he'll come good. No we don't have time as 1/2 the season has almost gone but atleast he is showing aggression and a will to win the ball IF we do go down a proven striker would more than likley pi$$ off and not fight our corner in the Championship!!

cpfcben
13-12-2004, 08:29 PM
Feel this guy has bags of talent and I just hope Iain shows some patience with the guy.

The Misfit
13-12-2004, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by Eric the Ginga
Torghelle is a centre forward thug in the Duncan Ferguson mould. Give him a start in a 4-4-2

And then we'll have to play the second half with 10 men. I don't think he should be given a 1st team start until he proves that he can behave himself on the pitch. Besides I don't think I want to see a DF style thug playing for Palace.

hughsaaaay
13-12-2004, 08:49 PM
bags of talent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've seen him play 4 times and he's makes Shipps look like Ronaldo
TORGHELLE FOR ROMA
AAAHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

norwoodeagle
13-12-2004, 09:02 PM
Take the money and run. Ship him out asap. Yellow card is his middle name and no goals

cpfc_spc1982
13-12-2004, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Eric the Ginga
Torghelle is a centre forward thug in the Duncan Ferguson mould. Give him a start in a 4-4-2

probably in the same mold as he likes a tear up but he cant head it that well.

Tommy Pickle
13-12-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by nookiebear
This perhaps, is a Dowie error, though - he's bought 4 strikers in the summer

Kaviedes and Torghelle have not settled and got anywhere near the first team
Ventola is always injured
Andrews is going to have to make a massive jump to be Prem quality


Lets not get carried away. The above 4 have been assembled at the cost of Gareth Williams and 750k. People are talking about 3m for Torghelle. Where is Dowies error?

Shipp Ahoy!
13-12-2004, 10:59 PM
If we got 3million for Torghelle it would be a Dowie masterstroke.

I mean seriously in business when you have an asset you have brought for a minimal fee that has so far done not much for your company (in this case club) and then get offered a substancial profit for just having him at the club for 4 months. Who wouldn't take that?

Granada allover
13-12-2004, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by Richwak
He has strength and power which to be honest our palace team is seriously lacking.

But, from what I've seen, he lacks pace - and you really need it in this division.

Sussex Eagle
13-12-2004, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Tomo
But to be fair when you get hurt people naturally tend to cover their face. As mentioned in a previous post about Torghelle in my match on Sunday a boy got tackled and went down holding his face and his leg. We all laughed and said you can get up now you won the free kick. Turned out he broke his leg.

I think faking is inexcusable but I feel he was hurt. Would you have moaned had Kiraly gone down when Dickov took him out leading to a sending off. I don't think so. It is a bandwagon and one that I will not be boarding.

I'm not in the 'we should get rid of him because he seems to dive about a bit' gang, as most players cheat to some extent (though certainly not Gabor, I was very proud of the way he jumped up and shook Dickov's hand to avoid him getting in trouble for what having seen the replay was just an accidental clash). As I said, I reckon he probably needs to be loaned out, not sold.

I know you weren't really targetting me, but I don't recall 'moaning'. My initial instinct was that he must have been genuine as he was wearing red and blue - I always think like this, it's one of the saddening things about tv replays or watching games you can't get to - it takes away your ability to be happily ignorant of Palace wrongdoings.

Tommy Pickle
13-12-2004, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Granada allover
But, from what I've seen, he lacks pace - and you really need it in this division.

Duncan Ferguson.

Ollie Ox
14-12-2004, 12:07 AM
torgelle is worth hanging on to, i think us Palace fans are notorious for making our minds up about a player too quickly. Ricardo Fuller anyone?

pfc
14-12-2004, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by Ollie Ox
torgelle is worth hanging on to, i think us Palace fans are notorious for making our minds up about a player too quickly. Ricardo Fuller anyone?

:p :p :p :p

The Vicar
14-12-2004, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by cpfcben
Feel this guy has bags of talent and I just hope Iain shows some patience with the guy.

And determination and fight. Well said.

The Vicar
14-12-2004, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Granada allover
But, from what I've seen, he lacks pace - and you really need it in this division.

Out of curiousity, do you think Shipps has more pace? I agree we need pace, and Iain seems to understand that. Shipps did a job for us last year, but I wouldn't play him ahead of Torghelle.

cpfcben
14-12-2004, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by hughsaaaay
bags of talent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've seen him play 4 times and he's makes Shipps look like Ronaldo
TORGHELLE FOR ROMA
AAAHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

His best games for Palace have been in the two away games that I have seen. Against Both Norwich and Portsmouth he was probably our best player. His performances at Selhurst have been a bit of a let down, however I have still seen enough in all the games he has played to suggest he could a real star.

sydnsteve
14-12-2004, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by honeysuckle
...........................................

Yes but AJ dives in an endearing English style that has integrity and realism; Sandor on the other hand dives in a dastardly foreign way that involves unfair playacting.



Exactly my point honeysuckle. One just cannot instil Britishness into Johnny Foriegner, you know.

Jim Cannon
14-12-2004, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by honeysuckle

Yes but AJ dives in an endearing English style that has integrity and realism; Sandor on the other hand dives in a dastardly foreign way that involves unfair playacting.

Really glaziers fan you are just not comparing like with like.

For fecks sake diving is diving - at the moment I think we'd all turn a blind eye if a dive got us somewhere.

I don't remember many people complaining about Shipps fouling the keeper at Sunderland or Hopkin handballing at Stockport.

Radders
14-12-2004, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by honeysuckle
He's a good player with far more mobility than Shipps for example. Yes he is raw but I like his agression. It hasn't stopped Alan Smith winning England caps for example. Does he dive? Yes. More than Andy Johnson? Probably not.

as posted by glaziers fan

.................................................. ............................

Yes but AJ dives in an endearing English style that has integrity and realism; Sandor on the other hand dives in a dastardly foreign way that involves unfair playacting.

Really glaziers fan you are just not comparing like with like.

Diving is diving. So you are saying it's ok to dive as long as it's done the right way?? Not sure about that mate!

Bungalow
14-12-2004, 10:13 AM
It will all come down to Dowie. If it true he is fed up with him then he will be sold provided we don't lose money. However I like to think that ID is not the type of manager who "gets fed up with players". I think he tries to manage them individually.
My own feeling is we haven't seen enough of him to make a proper assessment.

Clapham Grand
14-12-2004, 10:51 AM
he ain't going nowhere

smileysmith
14-12-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Clapham Grand
he ain't going nowhere

Thank feck for that. Cheers CG. :)

nookiebear
14-12-2004, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Tommy Pickle
Lets not get carried away. The above 4 have been assembled at the cost of Gareth Williams and 750k. People are talking about 3m for Torghelle. Where is Dowies error?

The point I'm making is none of those players, for one reason or another, has made an impact - certainly not enough of an impact to make Dowie think of playing them. Those players are still some way off challenging for a starting place, IMHO

I'm not getting carried away - it's a minor criticism of the best manager the club has had in years. We all know who Dowie wanted in the summer - Harewood, Ashton, etc

He didn't get them, he gambled and for one reason or another it hasn't come off, striker-wise.

Ideally, by May, we'll be mid-table, Torghelle will be creating loads for AJ, Kaviedes will be tricking defenses and Ventola will be banging them in for fun. I really hope they are

Freddy Kurz
14-12-2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by pfc
the lad has potential he is one for the future. I personally want him to stay. Would we want an old has been proven striker or someone for the future. I'm sure in time he'll come good. No we don't have time as 1/2 the season has almost gone but atleast he is showing aggression and a will to win the ball IF we do go down a proven striker would more than likley pi$$ off and not fight our corner in the Championship!!

And your concrete evidence for this gigantic leap of faith in support
of Torghelle? Any Premier League opponents worth their salt
who have done their homework on this guy will have him safely
red-carded and taking an early bath long before half-time
based on his recent conduct in first-team and reserve games.
He is as naively predictable as a rainy day in Manchester!

Jimbo ?
14-12-2004, 12:44 PM
yawn yawn yawn, just because he hasnt started very ofetn doesnt mean he will be leaving - personally i think we have a lot to get out of torghelle and in a year or 2 he could be a prolific scorer. give hima chance to settle and play a few games

Tommy Pickle
14-12-2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by nookiebear
The point I'm making is none of those players, for one reason or another, has made an impact - certainly not enough of an impact to make Dowie think of playing them. Those players are still some way off challenging for a starting place, IMHO

I'm not getting carried away - it's a minor criticism of the best manager the club has had in years. We all know who Dowie wanted in the summer - Harewood, Ashton, etc

He didn't get them, he gambled and for one reason or another it hasn't come off, striker-wise.

Ideally, by May, we'll be mid-table, Torghelle will be creating loads for AJ, Kaviedes will be tricking defenses and Ventola will be banging them in for fun. I really hope they are

I get you Nookie. On the subject of strikers I still don't feel that any critisism can be aimed at ID though. Financially he has got it spot on, as any money he has spent, it seems, would easily be recouped. As you say we all know who ID wanted in the summer, and i very much doubt it was his fault that we didn't get them. As a result we have AJ, Ventola, Torghelle, Kaviedes, Andrews, the Doog, or even Shipps to choose from. Obviously we have had 1 or 2 problems with injuries and discipline, but i am sure you will admit it is a bloody good choice for a newly promoted team with financial restrictions. Norwich have not been able to sign a single striker and West Brom managed to sign Kanu and Earnshaw. Are these the sort of moves that you would have prefered to see? If there was something that ID could have done and didn't then i could understand the critisism.

KennyB
14-12-2004, 04:00 PM
It would seem we are about 50/50 on whether he should go or stay. I wonder what ID thinks.

trufan
14-12-2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by KennyB
It would seem we are about 50/50 on whether he should go or stay. I wonder what ID thinks.

ID quoted by PA today: "As far as I am concerned, he is staying at the club. To be honest, I bought him as a raw young lad who had a great goal record and had probably over-achieved early on, and he is developing.

He played in the reserves last night and his link-up play was much better, his understanding of the game is improving. He is taking time and is emerging, so I see him being at the club for future years.

Neil 154
14-12-2004, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by trufan
He is taking time and is emerging, so I see him being at the club for future years.

'Emerging'. Anyone else noticed utterence every time Dowie opens his mouth?

zonin2000
14-12-2004, 06:47 PM
Dowie defends Palace's Torghelle

Blackburn were furious with Torghelle
Crystal Palace manager Iain Dowie has warned Sandor Torghelle about play-acting, but insists the Hungarian striker is not a cheat.
Blackburn were furious with Torghelle's reaction after a clash with Lucas Neill in the goalless draw at Selhurst Park.

Dowie said: "If you watch him train, he is not a cheat. He is very honest and works hard.

"I will have a little word with him about it because I think it probably is a little bit over-exaggerated."

Dowie said: "I have seen it and there is a tangle.

"What Sandor said is that he got a finger in the eye, not an elbow, he said it just caught his eyeball, and that is what hurt him.

"It looks like that is what may have happened on the video.

"Whether or not the reaction deserved that, I don't know."

Dowie added: "Craig Short has been very vocal about it, and I understand what he is about."

zonin2000
14-12-2004, 06:48 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/crystal_palace/4096113.stm

Martin H
15-12-2004, 09:02 PM
I think we are being a little too 'outraged' about Torghelle's cheating. This is an aspect of the modern game that has always annoyed me but I think that we are blowing Sandor's behaviour out of proportion. If you watch any game you will see many incidents.

Take Saturday. He definitely appeared to ham it up a little. He did NOT do fifteen rolls and lie groaning on the floor for 5 minutes. He reacted to the knock in the face and overdid it a little. He didn't carry it on but quickly seemed to stop it. Craig Short was the one carrying on the moment. The Blackburn response to all of this was as much to blame with everyone up in arms and complaining (what Thompson and Ferguson were doing I don't know). That was as over the top as Sandor's and more to blame for the trouble.

I AM NOT defending Sandor but I am trying to balance the picture.

Another linked thought. AJ rolls like a good un when looking for a penalty you all know that. There is a difference, but how different is it?

Anyway lets give the poor guy a chance. As a crowd we have a habit of burying our players before they have been born.

hughsaaaay
15-12-2004, 09:13 PM
IMAGINE TORGHELLE AND SHIPPERS UP FRONT TOGETHER, I CAN JUST PICTURE IT:
"Popa hoofs it upfield, the ball hits Shippers arse and rolls to Torghelle! Torhelle's through on goal, could this be another trademark Shipperley assist, but what's this, Torghelle has missed the ball completely and is now holding is head claiming a penalty!"
:eek: :eek: :eek:

NZsparky
15-12-2004, 11:31 PM
How about we just don't bother to imagine that

Jza
15-12-2004, 11:40 PM
I can imagine the Roma Scouts with their notepads open all nodding with glee and scoring Trog's straights 10's for diving/rolling/playacting. "wait till we tell the boss what we found in London!"

The Vicar
16-12-2004, 03:56 AM
Originally posted by Jza
I can imagine the Roma Scouts with their notepads open all nodding with glee and scoring Trog's straights 10's for diving/rolling/playacting. "wait till we tell the boss what we found in London!"

I think Torghelle will do well for Palace, and don't like what the critics have had to say on this topic.

But this post did indeed make me laugh!:p

magician
16-12-2004, 05:48 AM
he's a total nutter !
and the 2nd most entertaining player we have (ivan kav being the most entertaining) he livened up a dull match vs blackburn the other day didn't he
been on for 90 secs bang does the centre half 2mins later bang does lucas neil wallop all hell breaks loose
bring it on
someone said he got a fellow pro sent off . when did he do that ? thompson got himself sent off for being a little napolion syndrome scouse t##t who obviously spends too much time with dickov

Bounty
16-12-2004, 01:03 PM
Some of the comments on this thread are very sad indeed.
I dunno if I have ever seen such a response by fans to such a little incident. Of course the incident is now over and done with and we as Palace fans should be looking forwards not backwards.

Some of you have a funny way of getting behind your players which I find incredibly sad indeed :sob:

GIVE THE GUY A BREAK ALREADY!

hughsaaaay
16-12-2004, 04:59 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bounty
Some of the comments on this thread are very sad indeed.
I dunno if I have ever seen such a response by fans to such a little incident. Of course the incident is now over and done with and we as Palace fans should be looking forwards not backwards.

Some of you have a funny way of getting behind your players which I find incredibly sad indeed :sob:

GIVE THE GUY A BREAK ALREADY! [/QUOTE


I thought it was quite funny. Don't be so serious Bounty :S: :S:

hughsaaaay
16-12-2004, 05:02 PM
Was anyone else shocked to discover that Torghelle is ONLY 22!!
After coming back from holiday and first watching him play it looked as if he was going on 50.

Bounty
17-12-2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by hughsaaaay
Was anyone else shocked to discover that Torghelle is ONLY 22!!
After coming back from holiday and first watching him play it looked as if he was going on 50.

Yes, he is only only 22 matey which is why I was so serious lol. I just feel deeply for the guy and his struggles apart from the fact that HE IS actually my friend so I felt compelled to post.

When half the world declares he is the new "Hungarian Wayne Rooney" and builds him up to be this super character it is a shame to see people knock him down so soon.

But hey, we are really good at doing this to people aren't we ;)

Peace

smileysmith
17-12-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Bounty
But hey, we are really good at doing this to people aren't we ;)

Irritating that isn't it?!


Seriously though, good luck to Sandor - I like him. Can't wait to see him and AJ up front together - once he has settled ...

eagles #1
17-12-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by smileysmith
Irritating that isn't it?!


Seriously though, good luck to Sandor - I like him. Can't wait to see him and AJ up front together - once he has settled ... feel exactly the same mate.

Come on the Sandor!!