Good knowledge, thanks, that's a new palace player I'm now aware of.

Yes, under Coppell around 92/93. Eddie McGoldrick played there.

So he did! Well remembered

I thought Eddie was our pacy winger?

Eddie was brilliant as a sweeper. Didn't play many games there from memory but he was a class act.

And if you offer him 10 grand he will bang in 10 goals in no time as well. Wish that worked these days

Fairly sure Stewart Jump also played there , if Jeffries wasn't available .

Great player winger or sweeper .

:D

Eddie McGoldrick in one or two matches I seem to remember which was a bit of a surprise at the time.

(edit - sorry - I had the page open so long that I hadn't see the other posts - honest :)

Liverpool away if I remember right. He had a great game

Jeffries was a pretty good defender but Mel Blyth (who was a God) was our first sweeper - and IMHO was only kept out of the England team back then by Bobby Moore, the finest sweeper of all time.

Good memory, that is correct as I recall

Was Shaw used as a sweeper( I thought he was) or DM? Brilliant in whatever position It was , that said my memory is not the same so he probably was deployed purely for man marking.

Including an own goal if my memory serves!

Fairly sure Gerry Francis also played a few games as sweepr

He was often given the man marking job from what I remember. Whether that was in defence on a forward or in midfield. He was really good at just nullifying their star player.

Re some of the other posts, I think some must be using the term sweeper differently to how I would. Not saying it's wrong, buts it's just different to how I would see it. I.e. Bobby Moore wasn't a true sweeper to me. He was often labelled as a sweeper though in the press. When he was playing teams typically had a big CH who tended to be clumsy but great in the air and then a shorter, more nimble player alongside them. Bobby was the best of these in his day and truly World Class due to his composure and reading of the game. No pace, not great in the air but you never noticed somehow. It's true that the little guy of the partnership would be expected to 'sweep up' alongside and around the CH but not in the sense that a Sweeper would in say Italy where they would sit slightly deeper behind defenders. Beckenbauer played DM, the second central defender role or as a genuine sweeper at different times in his career. The most famous was an Italian dude and I can't remember his flaming name but he, like Beckenbauer could control the game from there.

Aha - remembered - Baresi? Or something like that.

Eddie was great as a sweeper as much as he was a loss on the wing... when a goal bonus was in play

Hayden Mullins and Andy Roberts played the odd game as sweeper, both very classy and made it look like they had all the time in the world on the ball

That's jogged my memory. Don't think Shaw was ever used as a sweeper but I'm almost certain Coppell had Thorn as a sort of sweeper in THAT 1990 semi against a Liverpool.

We had 5 across the back with Thorn dropping deep.

---------------------Thorn------------------
Pembo-----Shaw-----------O'Reilly-----Salako

Weird fact: Andy Roberts is younger than Kevin Philips. Yet it seems that they played in different eras.

He played as a DM quite a bit in 93/94 promotion year. Mind you we also had Southgate in midfield back then. When you think about it it's no wonder we romped it that year

Yes. The team that Coppell built flattered Alan Smith somewhat that season.

Saw an Andy Roberts masterclass at Sweeper up at Leicester back in the day. Made the game look so easy and seemed to be playing the game a couple of secs ahead if everyone else. Also remember him playing alongside Simon Rodgers in that infamous floodlight match when they were dominating everything until it went dark :( (I might be mixing up 2 matches but think it was that one). I was surprised when it all fizzled out for him and we let him go. Intelligent player. Because he came from Millwall it was uphill for him.

We had some good 'sweepers', but it always struck me as a position that could make a player look good, because you're basically an extra piece at the back. I'm not sure if any of our players ever reached the height of a truly great sweeper who could also fill the void further up the field rather than just defensive duties

Franco Baresi made the Libero role his own! Bobby Moore rarely crossed the half way line and could read the game better than anyone. He could also play a stopper role as he was comfortable with both feet and good in the air. Steve Coppell played a "double sweeper" in a league game at Forest away about 1991. This resulted in a 1-0 win a few days after they had knocked us out of the FA cup. Geoff Thomas was one of the two sweepers deployed that day, not sure of the other?

Andy Roberts was superb at sweeper. Read the game so well, and had a brilliant range of passing, at times almost Hoddle esque. Never really was the same player at a Centre Mid. Class act all the same.

Smith could never work out who his central midfield two were. It was constantly changing with shaw, Rodger and even O' Connor in there with Bowry and Newman.
Think I remember Edworthy having a go at sweeper.

Absolutely.

Roberts went to Wimbledon and played several more premier league seasons. We were down (or going down) and we cashed in.

But you are right - He should have probably had a better career overall.

On another note he also started abysmally for Palace - He was so bad the rumours circulated that he hated Palace etc :supergrin: But he turned it round thankfully.

I'm pretty sure that the first time Palace ever deployed a sweeper was when Malcolm Allison moved young Mark Lindsay back there in the 73/74 season (or it might have been 74/75). I think he'd been a young winger up until then, but everyone kept commenting on how good he looked in this role, which was a very unusual one in England at the time.

But I was never convinced. As Vince Hilaire's Afro observed, it's a position where a player could look good, because he was filling space no-one else occupied, so it looked like he had a lot of time on the ball. It wasn't effective, because we continued to lose games. And despite the praise Lindsay had received, Allison abandoned the tactic, and Lindsay's Palace career was a short one

Anyone else remember him?

Definitely remember him as he was the first black player I saw in a Palace shirt. Can't remember many of his games though and about the same time there was Martin Hinshelwood breaking through, who looked like he would be a sensational midfielder, but got a bad knee injury during the 75/76 season and hardly played again - the Johnny Williams of his day.

Mark Lindsay was also the first time I watched Palace under Big Mal deploy a sweeper, it was of course widely used in Italian football and known as Cannachio (sp) which was in effect a bolt like system at the rear of the defence.

No wonder Italian games were so often low scoring games.

Had high hopes for him at the time. Like we all still do today when we hear of another exciting product from the youth team.

Good awareness, although a hungrier forward could have got to the cross ahead of him. Not going to judge the clearance as anyone can get an awkward ball like that and half the job is not putting it in your own net there.

Looked classy and definitely taller then 6ft looks about 6,2 maybe even 6,3.

6'4, 6'5, 6'6? Maybe 6'1?

No.

Just like 6'1 or 6'2 then. He's 6'. :p

6 foot two, eyes of blue .....

Looking at the way he has sort of round shoulders and slouches refinds me of a former Palace player, I just can't think who.

It might be Jobi McAnuff or Mikele Leigertwood - I think it's Jobi.

Hayden Mullins?

What about that 60 yard odd long pass he made from the edge of our box bang into Wilf's path in the second half... Breathtaking.

Could be. Need to see more of him.

7'9"?

I'm not a fan of 3 at the back so if we don't play that system I don't see where he fits in the team. Played ok and will do a job, but I don't see much more than that

Yeah he's gonna be a very good player. 20 years old.. reads game very well.. has pace and can pass very well.

Yeah we can do without bloody players coming in who consistently pass it to members of their own team

Agree with this. Problem with Roberts was he never had the physique or pace to play a high tempo game. Very clever pro who could take the pace out of the game. In the latter part of his Palace career (97/98) he became largely a passenger as we were so overrun and constantly chasing games.

I said it earlier in this thread I feel like we've bought him to play one position, one which I don't think he's actually that great at. Even after spending 9m on him I think we still need a left sided centre back......if we don't play a back three he doesn't play. We make some strange signings. I hope I'm proved wrong

Feel sorry for the guy having to play with some of them. PVA lacks so much discipline in his defensive duties that anyone playing alongside him is in for a torrid time.

Awful debut. Says a lot about the joke of a transfer market when 11 years ago £9m got you AJ and today it only gets you this.

I thought his passing was good but he was frequently left exposed by the midfield and Dann who was really poor. For me there's a decent footballer in there.

He and Hennessey looked mighty uncomfortable playing the ball to each other. It was like "you have it" "no, I don't want it, you have it"

No attempt to cut out the cross for the second goal.

He is 20. FFS please have some patience with him

He looked out of his depth to say the least.

You pay peanuts...you get NPL defenders

I expect under 13s defenders to make an attempt to cut out a simple cross into the box. He's an international title winning defender FFS.

Can't judge him on one game but today he was awful. Hopefully he's not that bad normally. De Boer doesn't seem to like defenders who can defend though. Who cares if he can pass a ball when he can't defend?

Terrible performance today

Leave it out. It was a pretty bad performance but nowhere near as bad as Ward and Dann who both look a shadow of their former selves and completely out of their depth.

Tough league debut.

Got me thinking of that French guy who we spent a lot of money on but got completely owned by Carl Leaburn in a terrible 0-3 home defeat. Not that bad, but sadly reminded me of that.

Very poor debut, but if he's as good as the price tag suggests he'll put it right and bounce back quick. Time will tell....

He looked poor today , thought he would bring ball out from back . He wasmt picked much by Ajax last season , so maybe not ready yet .

The Dutch league must be shit then if he looked good in it

Ward and Dann are playing in a system they have NEVER plated. Jairo was brought in specifically to play in this system

FDB will love Souare then.

steve mcclaren won the dutch league says it all for me.

Valerian Ismaele

Rather surprisingly, he looked the least comfortable of the back three playing that system, and yet he must have the most experience playing that way. Not used to being closed down so quickly. A big step up from playing in the Dutch league. He needs to adjust quickly.

He's going to get destroyed by Liverpool next week, im afraid. Worried his confidence might get shot if today is anything to go by, needs to be eased in. Need to go all out for Sakho.

We need to give him time, agreed. Unfortunately if he's all we've got to play that LCB role then it will probably get worse before it gets better. More than happy to be proved wrong.

We need to buy Sakho before the price goes up to £40M

How will it go up by 10M

Did ok. Didn't help we had zero movement in front of him.. and Hennessey took forever to pass it out.

Out of his depth today. But hopefully he will improve. Light years behind Sakho though.

Looked out of his depth and a weak link. Deleaney must be wondering why he was not in the reckoning based on that performance. Every time Rienwald got the ball Hennesey quaked in his boots.

Ajax fan I spoke to said he is a very good player but more a midfielder who can play defence.

Said it looked like a team of ismaeles out there today to the fella in front of me.

Weren't it against spurs he run it up the pitch and just got done.

Agree. While not the same type of player, he reminded me of Jeff Hughes who Peter Talor signed from Lincoln, a rabbit caught in the headlights. I suspect that he will grow into the team with a more experienced centre back next to him. Unfortunately for him Dann's form is so poor and isn't much help - play him next to a Sakho type centre back who plays well, marshals the defence and encourages, I suspect that he might be fine.

Not out of their depth but being played out of position. Ward and Dan have given 110% at Palace. That shouldn't be forgotten. But you can't blame them for the Managers shambolic set up today or the hesitation of Rienwald who made Hennesey even less confident than Normal. It was quite noticeable that Hennesey's confidence soared playing with Mamadou Sakho and has plummeted today with Rienwald.

Just saw second goal , he is obviously not use to defending a big forward .

Should be alright against Firminho next week then.

Let's hope he picks up and the whole team was poor today. But, as he is our only permanent signing of the summer so far and given his struggles today, it is a bit of a concern. Also, if we do end up going to a back 4, would he even make the team? We would have 4(!!) first team candidates for left back after having none for half of last season.

As our biggest signing of the summer it wasn't a great start.

hope the performance was just down to first game nerves

He's no good in the air, thats a bit of a weakness if you play at the back.

Agreed , questioned whether he was big enough for a centre back and got slated. Looked ok last week but worried about him with the intensity and of the premier . Was ponderous too often

It's his first proper game and he is young so will give him time . He seemed well off the pace today and was definitely at fault for their second.

Yeah, I sit a bit of a way from the Holmesdale so didn't see it clearly at the time but after watching the goals back - he was very poor for the second. Ward's 'effort' to block the cross was quite awful too mind.

Reckon it's something to do with him being finished for maybe 18 months

give Jairo time especially in this wank system that leaves the 3 CB's exposed

Actually Jairo was awful on the 3rd goal too. Not strong enough.

Just watched the goals and he was awful on the second and third. Schoolboy defending and he looks weak. But he can pass it a bit so that's all good.

What was he doing on the third goal? Ian Wright blamed tomkins but he was trying to cover two runners
Riedevald left a huge gap on the left hand side and that was the reason for the goal
Also he did a very weak intercepting header very early on and Ince could have scored
Hope it was all just debut nerves but it was a poor and concerning performance and maybe he's not ready yet to be a regular starter

He made an initial bad mistake for the third goal by not winning or even really contesting a goal kick. Mounie out muscled him and then Riedewald slowly jogged back before Mounie finished. His mistake for the second goal was as bad - no challenge at all and it wasn't as if Mounie did any great movement.

A 19 and 20 year in the back three together when they haven't had time to practice together is managerial madness.

He made an initial bad mistake for the third goal by not winning or even really contesting a goal kick. Mounie out muscled him and then Riedewald slowly jogged back before Mounie finished. His mistake for the second goal was as bad - no challenge at all and it wasn't as if Mounie did any great movement.

A 19 and 20 year in the back three together when they haven't had time to practice together is managerial madness.

He should have been the sweeper / spare centre half in the middle behind two markers (of a three), but even then on yesterdays showing that would have been a gamble. Franco Baresi got away with it but he had world class man markers along side him and you could also pass back to the keeper back then (for them to pick it up).

Playing him as a left sided centre half looks crackers, especially in the English prem.

I could not see him being in a back four and it would have been interesting to have seen him at Merstham on Tuesday night. I saw Charlton u23s v Wimbledon u23s in the summer at Merstham and the back fours in those teams looked physically stronger than him.

From what I saw yesterday it is a system which asks far too much of some players who through no fault of their won cannot play those roles but ultimately sees too much risky passing taking place in areas of the pitch (defensive third) where even the big boys don't muck about in and which will also see our key offensive players tire in the last 20 mins of a game (due to the increased workloads : wing backs and Wilf) instead of the opposition

He should have been the sweeper / spare centre half in the middle behind two markers (of a three), but even then on yesterdays showing that would have been a gamble. Franco Baresi got away with it but he had world class man markers along side him and you could also pass back to the keeper back then (for them to pick it up).

Playing him as a left sided centre half looks crackers, especially in the English prem.

I could not see him being in a back four and it would have been interesting to have seen him at Merstham on Tuesday night. I saw Charlton u23s v Wimbledon u23s in the summer at Merstham and the back fours in those teams looked physically stronger than him.

From what I saw yesterday it is a system which asks far too much of some players who through no fault of their won cannot play those roles but ultimately sees too much risky passing taking place in areas of the pitch (defensive third) where even the big boys don't muck about in and which will also see our key offensive players tire in the last 20 mins of a game (due to the increased workloads : wing backs and Wilf) instead of the opposition

It looks like it might be a year too soon to be a regular starter as a CB in the PL with his lack of physically and weakness in the air. Time to sign Sakho imo and have Riedewald on the bench even if we do play 3 at the back.

Good post. Technically I was expecting much more. He didn't really seem to know how to defend, eg he didn't seem to know whether to go with or leave players. And his distribution seemed to be woeful, eg he always seemed to go in the inside and inherently played the recipient into trouble.

Can't help feeling disappointed.