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-   -   Jairo Riedewald (https://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=271278)

AJ 10-07-2020 07:04 PM

I really like him but i don't think his style fits us. We also have about 10 DM's so it is one area we can afford to let someone go.

SOUTHGATE EAGLE 10-07-2020 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ (Post 15295962)
I really like him but i don't think his style fits us. We also have about 10 DM's so it is one area we can afford to let someone go.

Perhaps but since Jairo is one of our few players with the ability to reliably pass the ball and can play LB, I'd rather we kept him. I'd argue Kouyate justifies his place as a good CM back up and McCarthy gives us more steel than anyone else so I'd rather see Luka go myself. We might get a reasonable fee for him too. If it helped fund someone who could do even half what someone like RLC does, I'd be all for it. We need a midfielder with an offensive threat far more than the panoply of defensive-based midfielders we currently have.

SOUTHGATE EAGLE 10-07-2020 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC EAGLE (Post 15295516)
He would be in my starting 11 instead of Luka, I believe this lad has a lot to offer.

He wants to release the ball quickly and positively. Has an eye for a pass and is used to playing in a system of high technical finesse.

Surprised Jairo has lasted here as long as he has.

F*cking had it with our transfer policy.

AJ 11-07-2020 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE (Post 15295970)
Perhaps but since Jairo is one of our few players with the ability to reliably pass the ball and can play LB, I'd rather we kept him. I'd argue Kouyate justifies his place as a good CM back up and McCarthy gives us more steel than anyone else so I'd rather see Luka go myself. We might get a reasonable fee for him too. If it helped fund someone who could do even half what someone like RLC does, I'd be all for it. We need a midfielder with an offensive threat far more than the panoply of defensive-based midfielders we currently have.

Only Luka and Kouyate are over 5ft, the rest of them are close to being called 'little people's :)

LuieJack 11-07-2020 07:33 AM

The reason Riedewald has never been fully appreciated is he was brought in by FDB to fit into a system that He wanted to adapt at Palace, but to succeed it would have also needed several new additions to implement his methods. So when we now look back on the FDB saga, who knows what may have been the final outcome if Frank de Boer stayed and had been given time and the funds to carry out his game plans, guess we will never ever know.
I feel JR does not fit into Roy's playing ethos as to how he wants the game played and that is why he gets overlooked. Personally i feel he would be far more effective if played in a deeper holding role in central midfield as he lacks pace, but reads situations well and can pass a ball effectively and can be a good hard tackler, but he will need to be given time to adapt to the role.
And i would then move Luka further up to a more attacking midfield role where he is able to hit a ball very cleanly and will be able to test the keeper from midfield which is something sadly we seldom do, surely its worth an experiment? as currently we are certainly not seeing the best out of Either players game.

chateauferret 11-07-2020 07:52 AM

I think we have a fair idea of what would have happened if de Twat had stayed. The moment he arrived it was immediately obvious that he was toilet in every way and also a wanker of the highest order. Told senior players they were pony and to go and train wiyh the U23s. Showed off tricks and got stroppy if players couldn't repeat them. Humiliated players in front of everyone. Then in the middle of transfer business he f***ed off and was nowhere to be found. Trained Milivojevic in midfidld in pre-season then started him in a three-man defence when the season began. Lost four games on the trot without a single goal.

He was like Midas with one important difference. Everything he touched turned into shite.

Now as for Riedewald bringing him to the club was about the only exception to that. Useful and talented player who brings some things the others don't, except possibly Meyer. If we aren't using him because of mere politics tbat is pathetic and I can't see any other reason given how pants Milivojevic has been lately.

LuieJack 11-07-2020 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chateauferret (Post 15296270)
I think we have a fair idea of what would have happened if de Twat had stayed. The moment he arrived it was immediately obvious that he was toilet in every way and also a wanker of the highest order. Told senior players they were pony and to go and train wiyh the U23s. Showed off tricks and got stroppy if players couldn't repeat them. Humiliated players in front of everyone. Then in the middle of transfer business he f***ed off and was nowhere to be found. Trained Milivojevic in midfidld in pre-season then started him in a three-man defence when the season began. Lost four games on the trot without a single goal.

He was like Midas with one important difference. Everything he touched turned into shite.

Now as for Riedewald bringing him to the club was about the only exception to that. Useful and talented player who brings some things the others don't, except possibly Meyer. If we aren't using him because of mere politics tbat is pathetic and I can't see any other reason given how pants Milivojevic has been lately.

You seem very well informed about what happened behind the scenes, you really must be an insider in disguise:rolleyes:
But seriously are you saying that the Board when appointing FDB did not know what to expect? these guys were the decision makers and clearly would have discussed at his interview what his plans were and how he would implement them, and i seem to recall Parish making a statement to that effect at the time.
So if FDB was expected to change the clubs approach and playing style then he needed to be given total freedom plus full financial backing to bring in "his" players as in the case of Riedewald, or it was never going to work out. But whatever happened behind the scenes I along with 98% of Palace fans would have been in the dark as to what really caused the parting of ways and de Boer to be sacked after just 4 games, that action for me beggared belief in its swiftness.
I dont dispute the releationship between club and manager had badly broken down and a parting of ways was inevitable, but was it all down to the manager? or did Parish and his Board also play a major part in what went wrong as it was an appointment made by them.
But in defence of Roy as to why he has mostly ignored JR, i would say Jairo has not really sold his case for inclusion in the past whenever given a chance as can also be said about Meyer, who both have generally disappointed when chosen especially as we know they are both talented players. Moving forward as mentioned i would like to see Riedewald And Luka who make no mistake is very talented but has simply lost his way of late as many players do, but if played in a formation as i suggested may work better for both players.

AJ 11-07-2020 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chateauferret (Post 15296270)
I think we have a fair idea of what would have happened if de Twat had stayed. The moment he arrived it was immediately obvious that he was toilet in every way and also a wanker of the highest order. Told senior players they were pony and to go and train wiyh the U23s. Showed off tricks and got stroppy if players couldn't repeat them. Humiliated players in front of everyone. Then in the middle of transfer business he f***ed off and was nowhere to be found. Trained Milivojevic in midfidld in pre-season then started him in a three-man defence when the season began. Lost four games on the trot without a single goal.

He was like Midas with one important difference. Everything he touched turned into shite.

Now as for Riedewald bringing him to the club was about the only exception to that. Useful and talented player who brings some things the others don't, except possibly Meyer. If we aren't using him because of mere politics tbat is pathetic and I can't see any other reason given how pants Milivojevic has been lately.

Tbf he started poorly at Atlanta in the MLS with the same type of comments based on his formation and moving players to new positions but in his first season(2019) he turned it around and ended up winning 2 cups and coming second in the league.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 11-07-2020 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuieJack (Post 15296678)
You seem very well informed about what happened behind the scenes, you really must be an insider in disguise:rolleyes:
But seriously are you saying that the Board when appointing FDB did not know what to expect? these guys were the decision makers and clearly would have discussed at his interview what his plans were and how he would implement them, and i seem to recall Parish making a statement to that effect at the time.
So if FDB was expected to change the clubs approach and playing style then he needed to be given total freedom plus full financial backing to bring in "his" players as in the case of Riedewald, or it was never going to work out. But whatever happened behind the scenes I along with 98% of Palace fans would have been in the dark as to what really caused the parting of ways and de Boer to be sacked after just 4 games, that action for me beggared belief in its swiftness.
I dont dispute the releationship between club and manager had badly broken down and a parting of ways was inevitable, but was it all down to the manager? or did Parish and his Board also play a major part in what went wrong as it was an appointment made by them.
But in defence of Roy as to why he has mostly ignored JR, i would say Jairo has not really sold his case for inclusion in the past whenever given a chance as can also be said about Meyer, who both have generally disappointed when chosen especially as we know they are both talented players. Moving forward as mentioned i would like to see Riedewald And Luka who make no mistake is very talented but has simply lost his way of late as many players do, but if played in a formation as i suggested may work better for both players.

Take your point but A. It is clear that his man management pissed off a lot of our players. That is a recipe for disaster.

As for backing him with his own players, they did sign Jairo for him. Who was definitely bought to play left side of a back 3 and he was absolutely dire there on his debut. After seeing his judgment of the player he wanted to play in specifically that position, I wouldn't have been too keen to give him much more to spend at that point in time.

chateauferret 11-07-2020 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuieJack (Post 15296678)
You seem very well informed about what happened behind the scenes, you really must be an insider in disguise:rolleyes:
But seriously are you saying that the Board when appointing FDB did not know what to expect? these guys were the decision makers and clearly would have discussed at his interview what his plans were and how he would implement them, and i seem to recall Parish making a statement to that effect at the time.
So if FDB was expected to change the clubs approach and playing style then he needed to be given total freedom plus full financial backing to bring in "his" players as in the case of Riedewald, or it was never going to work out. But whatever happened behind the scenes I along with 98% of Palace fans would have been in the dark as to what really caused the parting of ways and de Boer to be sacked after just 4 games, that action for me beggared belief in its swiftness.
I dont dispute the releationship between club and manager had badly broken down and a parting of ways was inevitable, but was it all down to the manager? or did Parish and his Board also play a major part in what went wrong as it was an appointment made by them.
But in defence of Roy as to why he has mostly ignored JR, i would say Jairo has not really sold his case for inclusion in the past whenever given a chance as can also be said about Meyer, who both have generally disappointed when chosen especially as we know they are both talented players. Moving forward as mentioned i would like to see Riedewald And Luka who make no mistake is very talented but has simply lost his way of late as many players do, but if played in a formation as i suggested may work better for both players.

Anyone with an internet connection and the ability to read English could know the facts I posted. And anyone who thought he was ever going to turn that shitshow around without going down a couple of divisions first would have to be weed-level deluded.

LuieJack 11-07-2020 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 15296696)
Take your point but A. It is clear that his man management pissed off a lot of our players. That is a recipe for disaster.

As for backing him with his own players, they did sign Jairo for him. Who was definitely bought to play left side of a back 3 and he was absolutely dire there on his debut. After seeing his judgment of the player he wanted to play in specifically that position, I wouldn't have been too keen to give him much more to spend at that point in time.

Regarding his man management style "Eddie", i would say it was more down to his unfortunate abrupt/unfriendly appearance that he displayed which turned people off, and never went down well with our pampered premiership players but i guess we will never truly know the reasons.
As for being backed? what allowed to buy ONE player and then lasting FOUR games in charge before being sacked so i would say he had no chance to prove anything, i am not supporting him but being fair to the man based on what and how it happened, clearly something happened behind the scenes that we fans were unaware off.
Your other point on trusting his player judgement, surely like any new manager would do he was experimenting with the players at his disposal to fit into his intended system before dipping into the transfer market. That surely is the sensible way to do it? but in all reality have you ever known a manager expected to turn thing around in the time he was given of 4 games, as a consequence i felt CPFC instead became the laughing stock of the footballing world in how we conducted that fiasco.
But the blessing from that sacking is we got Roy Hodgson.:p

LuieJack 11-07-2020 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chateauferret (Post 15296882)
Anyone with an internet connection and the ability to read English could know the facts I posted. And anyone who thought he was ever going to turn that shitshow around without going down a couple of divisions first would have to be weed-level deluded.

You should audition for "Britians Got Talent" as a comedy act.:supergrin:

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 11-07-2020 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuieJack (Post 15297046)
Regarding his man management style "Eddie", i would say it was more down to his unfortunate abrupt/unfriendly appearance that he displayed which turned people off, and never went down well with our pampered premiership players but i guess we will never truly know the reasons.
As for being backed? what allowed to buy ONE player and then lasting FOUR games in charge before being sacked so i would say he had no chance to prove anything, i am not supporting him but being fair to the man based on what and how it happened, clearly something happened behind the scenes that we fans were unaware off.
Your other point on trusting his player judgement, surely like any new manager would do he was experimenting with the players at his disposal to fit into his intended system before dipping into the transfer market. That surely is the sensible way to do it? but in all reality have you ever known a manager expected to turn thing around in the time he was given of 4 games, as a consequence i felt CPFC instead became the laughing stock of the footballing world in how we conducted that fiasco.
But the blessing from that sacking is we got Roy Hodgson.:p

The problem for me is that he was experimenting in the first game of the season and ripped up a large amount of what he had done pre-season.

Townsend had played wing back all pre-season, Ward had hadn't had a chance to play there and adapt to a new role before the opening day. Luka had played centre back all pre-season then moved. Loftus-Cheek suddenly in the front 3 after Lokilo/Lumeka had played there pre-season. It was all over the shop.

hulkster 12-07-2020 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE (Post 15295970)
Perhaps but since Jairo is one of our few players with the ability to reliably pass the ball and can play LB, I'd rather we kept him. I'd argue Kouyate justifies his place as a good CM back up and McCarthy gives us more steel than anyone else so I'd rather see Luka go myself. We might get a reasonable fee for him too. If it helped fund someone who could do even half what someone like RLC does, I'd be all for it. We need a midfielder with an offensive threat far more than the panoply of defensive-based midfielders we currently have.

Jeff Schlupp?

Johnsonpen 12-07-2020 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hulkster (Post 15297964)
Jeff Schlupp?

The value of Wilf is his ability to play the majority of games in a season. Schlupp needs to get and stay fit to not be the forgotten man. Jairo sadly seems to be prone to minor injuries. He has something and can pass quickly and well.

dogstar721 12-07-2020 09:31 AM

Of try him out in midfield ahead of PVA linking PVA into Zaha. That way if PVA is out of position in attack, we have full back coverage, as well as supporting midfield to play across the final third.

He's a keen player, and seems like McArthur happy to go forward behind the front line. Would give us a lot of options in and around Zaha and PVA which seems out best attacking area.

dogstar721 12-07-2020 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuieJack (Post 15296246)
The reason Riedewald has never been fully appreciated is he was brought in by FDB to fit into a system that He wanted to adapt at Palace, but to succeed it would have also needed several new additions to implement his methods. So when we now look back on the FDB saga, who knows what may have been the final outcome if Frank de Boer stayed and had been given time and the funds to carry out his game plans, guess we will never ever know.
I feel JR does not fit into Roy's playing ethos as to how he wants the game played and that is why he gets overlooked. Personally i feel he would be far more effective if played in a deeper holding role in central midfield as he lacks pace, but reads situations well and can pass a ball effectively and can be a good hard tackler, but he will need to be given time to adapt to the role.
And i would then move Luka further up to a more attacking midfield role where he is able to hit a ball very cleanly and will be able to test the keeper from midfield which is something sadly we seldom do, surely its worth an experiment? as currently we are certainly not seeing the best out of Either players game.

We'd have suffered more, no way would we have been able to play a 3-5-2 without a massive change of players.

CharlieCPFC 17-07-2020 09:44 AM

I thought he did well when he came on last night, I think it’s criminal he’s not starting. The intelligence he has with just his movement off the ball is something we lack.

switchboard 17-07-2020 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieCPFC (Post 15307466)
I thought he did well when he came on last night, I think itís criminal heís not starting. The intelligence he has with just his movement off the ball is something we lack.

Yeah, I don't want to overhype him but he is exactly the right age and skill set to be building a midfield 3 around. It is a real shame the manager doesn't share that vision because he should have played every game once we were safe.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 17-07-2020 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieCPFC (Post 15307466)
I thought he did well when he came on last night, I think itís criminal heís not starting. The intelligence he has with just his movement off the ball is something we lack.

Criminal? Really? Our midfield did very well last night.

I don't mind if Jairo gets more chances but he has never shown anything to suggest he should definitely be starting ahead of other players.


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