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-   -   Jairo Riedewald (https://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=271278)

TouchyAndalou 02-10-2017 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Palace (Post 13845873)
FDB was awful with Luka - playing him as a centre back in pre season and then in a midfield two with a back 5. He hung him out to dry and hen stupidly dropped him against Burnley. It's one of many examples of awful man management from FDB. Let's not forget that Luka was a major reason we stayed up. I think he will get back to fill form under Hodgson who will hopefully play him his best position.

A new manager plays a player in a different position and then doesn't select him for a couple games. Scandalous!

eagle-leg 02-10-2017 08:21 PM

I like Riedewald as a midfilder. Hes able to move the ball forward at pace. Very promising player. Against chelsea id be looking to play him alongside luka with cabaye performing a high press.

Chillo 02-10-2017 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgin eagle (Post 13878567)
Frees up our 3 left wing backs for striking duties too.

EFA :p

Urine Mattress 02-10-2017 08:32 PM

His age and coming to a new league/country will take some adjustment, but he clearly has a footballing brain and shows great promise

Lombardo's hair 02-10-2017 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy the gent (Post 13878377)
Where did i say a) it was 'all his fault', or b) bury him? He failed to track his runner and that isn't acceptable. He needs to be told that in no uncertain terms, if he's ever going to make it here. Would you not agree?

The unacceptable hinted at it quite strongly. The issue is most of our players give less than acceptable effort or are just inept. But we will blame FDB and pick on a kid he signed

jimmy the gent 02-10-2017 08:45 PM

No one's 'picking on him', get a grip. His lack of tracking back wasn't acceptable, and needs to be drummed out of him ASAP. What on earth is wrong with pointing that out.

Lombardo's hair 02-10-2017 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TouchyAndalou (Post 13878588)
A new manager plays a player in a different position and then doesn't select him for a couple games. Scandalous!

It would seem he played him in a different position because he didn't rate the other CBs available at time. When he dropped him for the Burnley game it was after 3 poor performances in midfield. It's only Puncheon that can be crap for months and not get dropped

orp pisshead1 02-10-2017 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TouchyAndalou (Post 13878588)
A new manager plays a player in a different position and then doesn't select him for a couple games. Scandalous!

So what part of Mr Palace's post is wrong? And a couple of games that have at the moment set the tone for our season:(.

orp pisshead1 02-10-2017 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle-leg (Post 13878641)
I like Riedewald as a midfilder. Hes able to move the ball forward at pace. Very promising player. Against chelsea id be looking to play him alongside luka with cabaye performing a high press.

Agree with this:p

bradpitt 02-10-2017 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle-leg (Post 13878641)
I like Riedewald as a midfilder. Hes able to move the ball forward at pace. Very promising player. Against chelsea id be looking to play him alongside luka with cabaye performing a high press.

Agree with this but what’s the odds Puncheon plays instead....

orp pisshead1 02-10-2017 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradpitt (Post 13878716)
Agree with this but what’s the odds Puncheon plays instead....

He didn't at city so there's a chance:p

Mr Palace 02-10-2017 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TouchyAndalou (Post 13878588)
A new manager plays a player in a different position and then doesn't select him for a couple games. Scandalous!

Come on, it was awful management. Something FDB excels in by all accounts.

RisZero 02-10-2017 11:01 PM

Thought he looked like he actually gave a shit about playing when he came on, unlike some in our last game. MOTD highlighted him as being lazy in one clip but even then he has identified the danger as was pointing the other guy to cover it.

Martin H 02-10-2017 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orp pisshead1 (Post 13878709)
So what part of Mr Palace's post is wrong? And a couple of games that have at the moment set the tone for our season:(.

The only questionable thing was trying him at RCB while we were waiting for Timbo to arrive. So the 'hanging him out to dry' comment seems an exaggeration to me. There are differences between playing DM in front of a 3CB vs a 2 CB but not big enough to explain his poor form. Even now I don't think he is playing that well. Improving but still not good enough (he isn't alone but that's not the point here). He isn't winning the ball like he was last year and certainly has forgotten how to win the ball in the air altogether which has been a big problem this year (again at OT). Certainly lost his edge in a situation where he should be able to shine. Hopefully he will keep improving and we will get the 'Luka' bacjbthat we had last year.

Re the tone being set. I would say the state of the squad (balance) following the window and the injuries to key players have had a huge impact that we are still struggling with.

I am just really hoping Roy/Ray will use these 2 weeks to nail down things down because we have to hit the games following Chelsea in some sort of shape. Right now we just seem to have lost our way across the board. I have faith, I am sh******* myself but will hang in there.

glaziers fan 03-10-2017 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 13878899)
The only questionable thing was trying him at RCB while we were waiting for Timbo to arrive. So the 'hanging him out to dry' comment seems an exaggeration to me. There are differences between playing DM in front of a 3CB vs a 2 CB but not big enough to explain his poor form. Even now I don't think he is playing that well. Improving but still not good enough (he isn't alone but that's not the point here). He isn't winning the ball like he was last year and certainly has forgotten how to win the ball in the air altogether which has been a big problem this year (again at OT). Certainly lost his edge in a situation where he should be able to shine. Hopefully he will keep improving and we will get the 'Luka' bacjbthat we had last year.

Re the tone being set. I would say the state of the squad (balance) following the window and the injuries to key players have had a huge impact that we are still struggling with.

I am just really hoping Roy/Ray will use these 2 weeks to nail down things down because we have to hit the games following Chelsea in some sort of shape. Right now we just seem to have lost our way across the board. I have faith, I am sh******* myself but will hang in there.

Keep the faith Martin :) I still believe we will get ourselves out of this mess, although I am sh***ing myself too. Would just like to get a point on the board asap to settle the nerves. Morata is out. TFM can take Hazard. Chelsea might struggle to score if we can defend properly. That should be the emphasis, especially if Wilf doesn't make it.

Against Man Utd, Riedewald replaced Schlupp. I thought he played left midfield, and I think that's not a bad position for him. He can tuck in to help Luka and Cabaye, and he is very good in possession. But if he plays there then it could allow the left back to get forward, as he should be able to cover at left back also. The thing about Schlupp is he is not as good at defending as Jairo, or as good in possession. Sure, JR doesn't have the same pace to go forward, but we should be concentrating on defending first and foremost.

As for Milivojevic, I have never felt he is as good at winning the ball or heading as some people think. Sure, he is 6'1" but he is nowhere near Jedinak in the air for example. And on the ground he is is not as explosive as someone like Kante. But his strengths are positioning and covering. He is normally in the right place at the right time. And he can play. His passing for a defensive mid is very good, and he is comfortable in possession. Personally, I saw signs of a return to form for him vs Man Utd. I like his passing - quick, first time, along the ground and, crucially, in a forward direction. He's integral. Alongside Cabaye and Riedewald they should keep the team solid.

So I'd go (just midfield and attack):

Townsend----Cabaye----Milivojevic-----Riedewald
-------------------X1-------------X2--------------------

Which can become:

---------------------Milivojevic------------------------
Townsend----Cabaye---------Riedewald-------X2
-------------------------X1----------------------------

I think Riedewald could be very decent for the team in those positions. Another guy who can actually put his put in and win tackles as well as solid passing. A much better option than Schlupp, Puncheon or McArthur in my opinion.

Martin H 03-10-2017 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glaziers fan (Post 13879119)
Keep the faith Martin :) I still believe we will get ourselves out of this mess, although I am sh***ing myself too. Would just like to get a point on the board asap to settle the nerves. Morata is out. TFM can take Hazard. Chelsea might struggle to score if we can defend properly. That should be the emphasis, especially if Wilf doesn't make it.

Against Man Utd, Riedewald replaced Schlupp. I thought he played left midfield, and I think that's not a bad position for him. He can tuck in to help Luka and Cabaye, and he is very good in possession. But if he plays there then it could allow the left back to get forward, as he should be able to cover at left back also. The thing about Schlupp is he is not as good at defending as Jairo, or as good in possession. Sure, JR doesn't have the same pace to go forward, but we should be concentrating on defending first and foremost.

As for Milivojevic, I have never felt he is as good at winning the ball or heading as some people think. Sure, he is 6'1" but he is nowhere near Jedinak in the air for example. And on the ground he is is not as explosive as someone like Kante. But his strengths are positioning and covering. He is normally in the right place at the right time. And he can play. His passing for a defensive mid is very good, and he is comfortable in possession. Personally, I saw signs of a return to form for him vs Man Utd. I like his passing - quick, first time, along the ground and, crucially, in a forward direction. He's integral. Alongside Cabaye and Riedewald they should keep the team solid.

So I'd go (just midfield and attack):

Townsend----Cabaye----Milivojevic-----Riedewald
-------------------X1-------------X2--------------------

Which can become:

---------------------Milivojevic------------------------
Townsend----Cabaye---------Riedewald-------X2
-------------------------X1----------------------------

I think Riedewald could be very decent for the team in those positions. Another guy who can actually put his put in and win tackles as well as solid passing. A much better option than Schlupp, Puncheon or McArthur in my opinion.

Agree with much of this. I think our lack of striker options makes Chelsea a tough challenge, all but impossible unless we get luck at a corner. I would think our only option is to make the choices around a solid defence and a defensively strong midfield that can retain the ball when we do have it rather than punt it back to them. Jairo seems a good option and I would be tempted to play 2 DMs if Luka and Jairo. The dilemma will be do we give Ladapo a run because he can win it in the air or do we play Sako who will be do better with holding and playing it to a man. I suspect both play but probably would start Sako again. What is clear is that we need to get a workable solution because we have months of this. Likely Ruben, who I would prefer to see in the middle but....

Back to Jairo. I do think he has the composure and intelligence with the ball and I am a big fan of how quickly he moves the ball. It's a bit early to know for sure but the signs are very encouraging.

Mr Palace 03-10-2017 09:08 AM

I love the optimism! You never know of course but our problems are much bigger than not being able to score. We seem to have regressed defensively. That must in part be down to FDB messing up the formation/system but more importantly all the chopping and changing. We need a settled back four and defensive midfield screen.

The defence (imo) has to be:

TFM------Tomkins-----Sakho-----Schlupp

With Luka, Cabaye and RLC in the midfield three, but for the Chelsea game I would bring in Riedewald for the ineligible RLC.


Going back to Luka, there are a few people with short memories. He was absolutely superb last season. I think FDB knocked his confidence, as he did to many other players. He will be back on form before long and is already showing signs of improving.

CharlieCPFC 03-10-2017 09:17 AM

I thought Luka was looking his old self against both Manchester clubs.

Let him sit in front of that back four in front of Sakho and Tomkins and that's a rock solid spine. It all stems from there.

As for Riedewald I think as long as he can settle here and not want to go back to Holland he can become a popular figure here. People forget how young he is, his technique, intelligence and movement is a class above. It's still a big deal for a 20 year old moving to another country where he's been so settled at the same club all his life.

Martin H 03-10-2017 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Palace (Post 13879167)
I love the optimism! You never know of course but our problems are much bigger than not being able to score. We seem to have regressed defensively. That must in part be down to FDB messing up the formation/system but more importantly all the chopping and changing. We need a settled back four and defensive midfield screen.

The defence (imo) has to be:

TFM------Tomkins-----Sakho-----Schlupp

With Luka, Cabaye and RLC in the midfield three, but for the Chelsea game I would bring in Riedewald for the ineligible RLC.


Going back to Luka, there are a few people with short memories. He was absolutely superb last season. I think FDB knocked his confidence, as he did to many other players. He will be back on form before long and is already showing signs of improving.

I really struggle with this FDB messing with their heads thing being a problem now. I don't see how you can play that many years of professional football and be screwed up so badly by a pre-season and playing two and a half matches with 3 CBs. I don't think it stops you jumping for headers, winning tackles or encourages you to make the super dumb mistakes we have seen. I do agree the late arrival Sakho has been an impact (and TBH playing him on the right won't help either).

Re Luka, I desperately want last season's Luka back but we really don't have that yet. Saturday was easily his best game this season and yet he still made sloppy errors. He did have the odd poor game last year too but in between he was a real force. We need that player right now. He has to stamp out the errors though because at DM it really hurts.

Mr Palace 03-10-2017 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 13879237)
I really struggle with this FDB messing with their heads thing being a problem now. I don't see how you can play that many years of professional football and be screwed up so badly by a pre-season and playing two and a half matches with 3 CBs. I don't think it stops you jumping for headers, winning tackles or encourages you to make the super dumb mistakes we have seen. I do agree the late arrival Sakho has been an impact (and TBH playing him on the right won't help either).

Re Luka, I desperately want last season's Luka back but we really don't have that yet. Saturday was easily his best game this season and yet he still made sloppy errors. He did have the odd poor game last year too but in between he was a real force. We need that player right now. He has to stamp out the errors though because at DM it really hurts.

The problem - I think - is partly down to FDB constantly chopping and changing the team, playing a certain way in pre-season and then suddenly ditching that for the opening game - e.g. Ward played at RWB when he hadn't all pre-season, Townsend moving from RWB to further forward, and Luka not playing in defence once the season started. On top of that he threw a very inexperienced back three together for the Huddersfield game that wouldn't have barely had any time to even train together. FDB's approach was a car crash. But it's all history I guess...

As for Luka, I'm confident he will come back to being the supber player he is - i.e. as Hodgson will know how to get the best out of him. He was brilliant against the Republic for Serbia a few weeks ago. I just think he was temporarily discombobulated by de Boer!


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