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-   -   Jairo Riedewald (https://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=271278)

LuieJack 12-11-2020 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JannerEagle (Post 15498967)
And Jaroslaw Jach was capped by Poland but ....

Surely it a laughable comparison Meyer to Jach as players? eventhough they were both capped at National level.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 12-11-2020 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reg_Maudling (Post 15499514)
I remember in that Huddersfield game he blatantly chickened out of a physical challenge with one of their big players - he doesn't look afraid any more

Generally I agree but then he completely ducked out of a header from a corner last weekend, with a scared look on his face, and Leeds nearly scored.

There is definite improvement but he still has those moments a bit too often. If he can work on that side he would be even better.

Martin H 12-11-2020 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuieJack (Post 15499679)
Was that really the case that Riedewald adapted his game? or was it more down to a change of position from Left Back to a more comfortable role that he is more suited to, as opposed to playing in Midfield. Which is where he has more time on the ball to express his game better rather than at Left Back where his lack of pace means he is put under pressure instantly, but yes to his credit he has learnt to adapt and will get better still with greater experience.
And that was my point i was making about Meyer as we clearly knew his game when signed, and to see the best of his game would require him getting a proper run in the team but also crucially having the right players alongside and we would have seen a very different player.
Unfortunately like it or not but Palace do NOT play with a fluid attacking style in midfield instead we play with a more robust style midfield, and the signing of Meyer it was just a question of bringing in the Right player but to the Wrong club and now we Both move on, i have no issues with that.

Donít think there can be much doubt at all that Jairo has adapted his game because itís so easily recognisable. He has added intensity, mobility and as a result is making an impact in the middle rather than it often going on around him. These were exactly the things asked of him and he showed them initially in the first team at LB and then in pre-season where Roy had obviously pencilled him in and he took that chance. It has taken him a while to make that change but in truth he is still young for the PL in that position and so maybe it shouldnít be that big a shock. He also looks stronger physically. He still has work to do on that position but I canít think of anyone better to be coaching him. Roy and Ray both are outstanding coaches and in particular of how midfield shields and supports the defence but also then play fast passing football coming forward. They arenít kick it and chase it merchants. The combinations we are starting to see donít happen by accident and take a lot of repetition/practice and we saw them pay off v Leeds

So far, Jairo looks to me to be better alongside Macca who not only encourages Jairo to take the ball off the CBs but also complements Jairo with his mobility. Luka has had to a lesser extent similar weaknesses and paired it seems to expose both of them. We will see.

Meyer has made next to no impact in games in over 2000 mins I think. Is it 25 starts and 21 subs in the PL plus cups? ( care From memory). What young player gets 2000 mins to show that they have something at this level? Players do have positions they prefer or perhaps make their biggest contribution but wherever they are playing you can see their attributes and Meyer has been disappointing compared to his reputation. He lacks power physically and in his shooting and even his passing, he has little pace and poor acceleration. Even his creativity seems limited. He isnít picking out runners or sliding in strikers itís centred on short pass and move. He has a good first touch and one of the best 180 degree turns I have seen but then doesnít have the rest to take advantage of that and too often a short 3-5 yard sideways pass is the outcome. He doesnít tackle or intercept well and has low intensity. The games too often pass him by and even in his best game (I think eof first season in a game we scored well) he played in short bursts. None of the above works well in the PL.

The suggestion that we should reorganise the tactics, team and so on Ďjust to seeí if there is a player in there rather than rely on a century of coaching experience and seeing him every day in training is beyond bizarre. We got him on a free and with next to no opposition. That tells you something. Maybe he can even now adapt his game, but that should come first, not rejig everything to accommodate him. Certainly shouldnít be used as a club to beat Roy with.

LuieJack 12-11-2020 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 15499807)
Donít think there can be much doubt at all that Jairo has adapted his game because itís so easily recognisable. He has added intensity, mobility and as a result is making an impact in the middle rather than it often going on around him. These were exactly the things asked of him and he showed them initially in the first team at LB and then in pre-season where Roy had obviously pencilled him in and he took that chance. It has taken him a while to make that change but in truth he is still young for the PL in that position and so maybe it shouldnít be that big a shock. He also looks stronger physically. He still has work to do on that position but I canít think of anyone better to be coaching him. Roy and Ray both are outstanding coaches and in particular of how midfield shields and supports the defence but also then play fast passing football coming forward. They arenít kick it and chase it merchants. The combinations we are starting to see donít happen by accident and take a lot of repetition/practice and we saw them pay off v Leeds

So far, Jairo looks to me to be better alongside Macca who not only encourages Jairo to take the ball off the CBs but also complements Jairo with his mobility. Luka has had to a lesser extent similar weaknesses and paired it seems to expose both of them. We will see.

Meyer has made next to no impact in games in over 2000 mins I think. Is it 25 starts and 21 subs in the PL plus cups? ( care From memory). What young player gets 2000 mins to show that they have something at this level? Players do have positions they prefer or perhaps make their biggest contribution but wherever they are playing you can see their attributes and Meyer has been disappointing compared to his reputation. He lacks power physically and in his shooting and even his passing, he has little pace and poor acceleration. Even his creativity seems limited. He isnít picking out runners or sliding in strikers itís centred on short pass and move. He has a good first touch and one of the best 180 degree turns I have seen but then doesnít have the rest to take advantage of that and too often a short 3-5 yard sideways pass is the outcome. He doesnít tackle or intercept well and has low intensity. The games too often pass him by and even in his best game (I think eof first season in a game we scored well) he played in short bursts. None of the above works well in the PL.

The suggestion that we should reorganise the tactics, team and so on Ďjust to seeí if there is a player in there rather than rely on a century of coaching experience and seeing him every day in training is beyond bizarre. We got him on a free and with next to no opposition. That tells you something. Maybe he can even now adapt his game, but that should come first, not rejig everything to accommodate him. Certainly shouldnít be used as a club to beat Roy with.

It is all about opinions. I would suggest Meyer is not as bad as the case you put forward, how can he be? think back to when he arrived and how highly he was thought off, also as a full German International aged just 22yrs old suggests he was no mug. I would say rightly or wrongly it is more a question of him becoming disillusioned at CPFC due to a lack of game time, which i feel is a real pity as he could have been that missing link but more likely is we were the wrong club to suit his game. And now clearly RH has lost patience and his days are numbered, which is best for all concerned.

Shoreditch CPFC 12-11-2020 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuieJack (Post 15500057)
It is all about opinions. I would suggest Meyer is not as bad as the case you put forward, how can he be? think back to when he arrived and how highly he was thought off, also as a full German International aged just 22yrs old suggests he was no mug. I would say rightly or wrongly it is more a question of him becoming disillusioned at CPFC due to a lack of game time, which i feel is a real pity as he could have been that missing link but more likely is we were the wrong club to suit his game. And now clearly RH has lost patience and his days are numbered, which is best for all concerned.

I'm not sure RH has, he just has better options with most of the squad fit. If he didn't Meyer would be on the bench.

BadenEagle 12-11-2020 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuieJack (Post 15499679)
Was that really the case that Riedewald adapted his game? or was it more down to a change of position from Left Back to a more comfortable role that he is more suited to, as opposed to playing in Midfield. Which is where he has more time on the ball to express his game better rather than at Left Back where his lack of pace means he is put under pressure instantly, but yes to his credit he has learnt to adapt and will get better still with greater experience.
And that was my point i was making about Meyer as we clearly knew his game when signed, and to see the best of his game would require him getting a proper run in the team but also crucially having the right players alongside and we would have seen a very different player.
Unfortunately like it or not but Palace do NOT play with a fluid attacking style in midfield instead we play with a more robust style midfield, and the signing of Meyer it was just a question of bringing in the Right player but to the Wrong club and now we Both move on, i have no issues with that.

Well, both Jairo and Roy have stated that Jairo has worked very hard and has learnt to cope with the demands of the PL, so thatís enough evidence for me. I like Max and was excited when he signed. He is great on the ball with good control and a good eye for a pass, but defensively he is IMO extremely lightweight. I believe that this is his major issue and not a lack of opportunity. Either way, I think we can agree that Jairo is in great form and long may it continue.

LuieJack 13-11-2020 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoreditch CPFC (Post 15500083)
I'm not sure RH has, he just has better options with most of the squad fit. If he didn't Meyer would be on the bench.

Do we have better options for the type of role MM plays? i am not so sure, what i will say and i would not dispute it that Meyer has Not delivered as was expected which has disappointed most Palace fans, mainly as we know he was just the type we have been asking for and could have been a very big player for us. And it's not to be so we move on and i dont have an issue with that, probably the Right player but at the Wrong club to suit his style nor our's.
The better options you mention i would say is more to do with players who suit Roy's more robust and workman like midfield rather than the flair schemers like Meyer and Campana, fine as we have been reasonably successful with that ploy but in my opinion i would also love to see flair added to our midfield, which if combined with our robust style would make us more effective.

LuieJack 13-11-2020 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadenEagle (Post 15500183)
Well, both Jairo and Roy have stated that Jairo has worked very hard and has learnt to cope with the demands of the PL, so thatís enough evidence for me. I like Max and was excited when he signed. He is great on the ball with good control and a good eye for a pass, but defensively he is IMO extremely lightweight. I believe that this is his major issue and not a lack of opportunity. Either way, I think we can agree that Jairo is in great form and long may it continue.

I would not dispute what you say in your first paragraph and Both deserve credit for that, but make no mistake JR was always a good player when joining it was just a question of finding his best role, which i have always said would be if played as a "sweeper" a Rio Ferdinand type. It could also be said that Roy's hand was forced into playing Riedewald in that position due to injuries plus the loss of form of Luka and the enforced change of role for Kouyate were factors.
As for Meyer, your assessment is spot on and it is how i also see it. But surely management knew what we were getting when joining? and if we were to see the best of his game our midfield would needed to be tweeked to accomodate him, and that has always been my arguement. It has not worked out and thats the way it goes sometimes, fine and we move on, as for Roy Hodgson i am a big fan of his and his achievements since joining us eventhough working with restrictions has been nothing short of being brilliant work, and have constantly said so.

mylona 13-11-2020 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoreditch CPFC (Post 15500083)
I'm not sure RH has, he just has better options with most of the squad fit. If he didn't Meyer would be on the bench.

Agreed, we have midfielders ahead of Meyer who can slot into the team. Meyer may be talented but he doesn't simply fit, we would have to adapt the midfield to accommodate him. He is not at a level where you could build the midfield around him the way it tended to work with an on form Cabaye.

aashman12 13-11-2020 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 15499807)
Donít think there can be much doubt at all that Jairo has adapted his game because itís so easily recognisable. He has added intensity, mobility and as a result is making an impact in the middle rather than it often going on around him. These were exactly the things asked of him and he showed them initially in the first team at LB and then in pre-season where Roy had obviously pencilled him in and he took that chance. It has taken him a while to make that change but in truth he is still young for the PL in that position and so maybe it shouldnít be that big a shock. He also looks stronger physically. He still has work to do on that position but I canít think of anyone better to be coaching him. Roy and Ray both are outstanding coaches and in particular of how midfield shields and supports the defence but also then play fast passing football coming forward. They arenít kick it and chase it merchants. The combinations we are starting to see donít happen by accident and take a lot of repetition/practice and we saw them pay off v Leeds

So far, Jairo looks to me to be better alongside Macca who not only encourages Jairo to take the ball off the CBs but also complements Jairo with his mobility. Luka has had to a lesser extent similar weaknesses and paired it seems to expose both of them. We will see.

Meyer has made next to no impact in games in over 2000 mins I think. Is it 25 starts and 21 subs in the PL plus cups? ( care From memory). What young player gets 2000 mins to show that they have something at this level? Players do have positions they prefer or perhaps make their biggest contribution but wherever they are playing you can see their attributes and Meyer has been disappointing compared to his reputation. He lacks power physically and in his shooting and even his passing, he has little pace and poor acceleration. Even his creativity seems limited. He isnít picking out runners or sliding in strikers itís centred on short pass and move. He has a good first touch and one of the best 180 degree turns I have seen but then doesnít have the rest to take advantage of that and too often a short 3-5 yard sideways pass is the outcome. He doesnít tackle or intercept well and has low intensity. The games too often pass him by and even in his best game (I think eof first season in a game we scored well) he played in short bursts. None of the above works well in the PL.

The suggestion that we should reorganise the tactics, team and so on Ďjust to seeí if there is a player in there rather than rely on a century of coaching experience and seeing him every day in training is beyond bizarre. We got him on a free and with next to no opposition. That tells you something. Maybe he can even now adapt his game, but that should come first, not rejig everything to accommodate him. Certainly shouldnít be used as a club to beat Roy with.

Eze seems to be the player we thought we were getting with meyer.

El Aguila 13-11-2020 10:37 AM

The midfield is no place for vegans.

Ian J 13-11-2020 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Aguila (Post 15500581)
The midfield is no place for vegans.

Fabian Delph might disagree

Jim Cannon 13-11-2020 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian J (Post 15500642)
Fabian Delph might disagree

He is always injured though, to be fair

Timbo 13-11-2020 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuieJack (Post 15500436)
Do we have better options for the type of role MM plays? i am not so sure, what i will say and i would not dispute it that Meyer has Not delivered as was expected which has disappointed most Palace fans, mainly as we know he was just the type we have been asking for and could have been a very big player for us. And it's not to be so we move on and i dont have an issue with that, probably the Right player but at the Wrong club to suit his style nor our's.
The better options you mention i would say is more to do with players who suit Roy's more robust and workman like midfield rather than the flair schemers like Meyer and Campana, fine as we have been reasonably successful with that ploy but in my opinion i would also love to see flair added to our midfield, which if combined with our robust style would make us more effective.

I havent seen any flair, let alone scheming ability, from MM. Quite simply he is not, yet, PL quality and he needs to work at it or leave

SOUTHGATE EAGLE 13-11-2020 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aashman12 (Post 15500559)
Eze seems to be the player we thought we were getting with meyer.

And Cabaye and Guedioura.

Meyer could play behind the striker and our midfield would probably have the ball more and use it well. But we either would have to give up using wingers or stop playing Zaha in a pair. It's too much of a sacrifice. I've long wanted to see a good technician like Meyer fitted into the middle but ( as I've long believed ) playing Zaha up front cures a lot of our creativity issues, just because of his mobility and X-factor being situated where it does most damage.

The fact that Eze has been brought in and both Townsend and Schlupp are now fit-and-firing means that we have added the craft Meyer could have contributed but also with more pace and power. Max seems like a good egg so its a shame he's not worked out here but, as other posters have said, he's the wrong player for a club like us. He would do well at a team which dominates possession, especially abroad, but his wages mean he needs to join Benteke and Sakho in being sold or even released from here as soon as can be safely arranged.

Johnsonpen 13-11-2020 02:57 PM

Meyer has been given so many chances to show he has something and not taken them. Huge mistake that we all thought was great at the time. How much the entire disaster costs us in the end will be too painful to contemplate. Please, please stop saying he can make it still.

jmemour 13-11-2020 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnsonpen (Post 15500737)
Meyer has been given so many chances to show he has something and not taken them. Huge mistake that we all thought was great at the time. How much the entire disaster costs us in the end will be too painful to contemplate. Please, please stop saying he can make it still.

It really isn't that bad in terms of cost. He came on a free and isn't on anything like the wages that were bandied about at the time we got him.

palace_burger 13-11-2020 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmemour (Post 15500851)
It really isn't that bad in terms of cost. He came on a free and isn't on anything like the wages that were bandied about at the time we got him.

His monthly take home is circa 140k per week . Thatís a combo of wages and the signing on fee we gave him, because he was on a free

We pay the signing on fee monthly as it suits both parties from a tax. FFP and Amortization point of view.

El Aguila 13-11-2020 06:48 PM

That’s a lot of quorn.

Psych 14-11-2020 09:48 AM

This idea that with players like Meyer Ďjust need the right players playing alongside themí is a bit strange. Firstly, we donít have the luxury of doing this. And secondly, surely this is only done with the great and the very good, eg the Messis of the world? Building a team around a player unproven at this level is not practical or even desirable. Players at this level prove their worth by being able to adapt to their team and managerís system. To his credit, Jairo has done this; Meyer has not (for whatever reason).


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