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-   -   Jairo Riedewald (https://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=271278)

GrayP41ace 10-02-2020 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philsick (Post 15101072)
I totally disagree with this, jairo and players of his age and potential are the long term answer, not ageing seasoned pro's the first team consist of. Jairo has put in better performances than luka and mccarthy lately yet they walk into the team every week.

But you've spent 6 months moaning about how defensive we are?

So when our 1st choice left back comes back, who is more attacking and certainly offers us more going forward, he shouldn't play because a central player out of position (which is credit to him, but largely why he has been praised as much as he had) played better than anyone else (which wasn't difficult) for a month? When your fullbacks offer the attacking threat the midfielders need to offer the cover. We play 3 CM's in the same way Liverpool do, only theirs are infinitely better than ours, along with their full backs and forwards obviously.

The problem we are having this year is that our RB is dreadful past the half way line. There is zero threat from that side.
By having no threat on the right and nothing on the left side bar Wilf, teams are doubling up and taking him completely out the game.
It's not a surprise that Wilf had more impact in the Sheff Utd game with PVA back, than the previous 4/5 games without him.

The way we approach games is due to the personnel we have:
An attacking LB, that can't defend - PVA
A RW that is very defensive - AT
A defensive RB that cannot offer any threat going forward - JW, and he was replaced with an even less offensive RB for large parts!
A pair of strikers that can't finish or stay fit for any length of time CB and CW.

Our offensive play consists of PVA, Wilf and Ayew, and people want PVA dropped, with Wilf double or triple marked!

Gregz41 10-02-2020 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayP41ace (Post 15101120)
But you've spent 6 months moaning about how defensive we are?

So when our 1st choice left back comes back, who is more attacking and certainly offers us more going forward, he shouldn't play because a central player out of position (which is credit to him, but largely why he has been praised as much as he had) played better than anyone else (which wasn't difficult) for a month? When your fullbacks offer the attacking threat the midfielders need to offer the cover. We play 3 CM's in the same way Liverpool do, only theirs are infinitely better than ours, along with their full backs and forwards obviously.

The problem we are having this year is that our RB is dreadful past the half way line. There is zero threat from that side.
By having no threat on the right and nothing on the left side bar Wilf, teams are doubling up and taking him completely out the game.
It's not a surprise that Wilf had more impact in the Sheff Utd game with PVA back, than the previous 4/5 games without him.

The way we approach games is due to the personnel we have:
An attacking LB, that can't defend - PVA
A RW that is very defensive - AT
A defensive RB that cannot offer any threat going forward - JW, and he was replaced with an even less offensive RB for large parts!
A pair of strikers that can't finish or stay fit for any length of time CB and CW.

Our offensive play consists of PVA, Wilf and Ayew, and people want PVA dropped, with Wilf double or triple marked!

Agree with this, especially about the shambles our right hand side has become. PVA, for all his faults is good going forward. We desperately need more attacking outlets in the team.

aj4england 10-02-2020 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayP41ace (Post 15101120)
But you've spent 6 months moaning about how defensive we are?

So when our 1st choice left back comes back, who is more attacking and certainly offers us more going forward, he shouldn't play because a central player out of position (which is credit to him, but largely why he has been praised as much as he had) played better than anyone else (which wasn't difficult) for a month? When your fullbacks offer the attacking threat the midfielders need to offer the cover. We play 3 CM's in the same way Liverpool do, only theirs are infinitely better than ours, along with their full backs and forwards obviously.

The problem we are having this year is that our RB is dreadful past the half way line. There is zero threat from that side.
By having no threat on the right and nothing on the left side bar Wilf, teams are doubling up and taking him completely out the game.
It's not a surprise that Wilf had more impact in the Sheff Utd game with PVA back, than the previous 4/5 games without him.

The way we approach games is due to the personnel we have:
An attacking LB, that can't defend - PVA
A RW that is very defensive - AT
A defensive RB that cannot offer any threat going forward - JW, and he was replaced with an even less offensive RB for large parts!
A pair of strikers that can't finish or stay fit for any length of time CB and CW.

Our offensive play consists of PVA, Wilf and Ayew, and people want PVA dropped, with Wilf double or triple marked!

Good post this. The flip side however could be said that a Pulis approach of play your best defenders and work around a clean sheet is the starting point that we need to survive. With that in mind would Ridewald be better than PVA for that focus? Probably.

In terms of Jairo, we really don't know how good he can be in midfield. There surely is also a case that Ridewald plays at LB and PVA infront of him. PVA has the extra burst of pace that perhaps Jairo or Macca or Mcarthy do not have to cause defence trouble. Or that Jairo comes in to centre midfield in place of any of the 3 that started on Sat.

We have however looked a far worse team with Kouyate out of the side than we did when he was in it and Luka over him has made us far worse, rather than Ridewald abscence.

For me we should have Kouyate and Ridewald in midfield, then you can choose to have any of the other 3 or Meyer. Play your best technical midfielders, particularly at home when we know a few wins could see us home and dry. You can always go more defensive if it doesn't work.

In relation to your point about lack of attacking force down the right, would Kouyate at RB be worse than Ward?

AJ 10-02-2020 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnsonpen (Post 15099858)
PVA mistakes are costing us goals. Simple. Hope Kelley is back soon because at CH he always makes a couple of stand out stops that probably save us goals and Cahill is also making mistakes. Jairo will get better at LB as will Kelley at CH

Never thought I would see that in print, but I agree.

sbds18 10-02-2020 11:18 AM

With current form, I'd want to see Jairo playing instead of Luka. I'm a big fan of Luka, but we haven't seen anything resembling his best form this season. Together with Kouyate and one of the James McArth's that seems a more balanced midfield to me, in the short term, and when Schlupp is back he can take the McArth spot, gives more energy and forward momentum.

(This is all assumed Roy won't change the formation to have 2 strikers).

Spindle 10-02-2020 11:51 AM

PVA is a terrible passer of the ball and he often gives it away when our entire side is up the pitch. His best quality is his pace, it certainly isn't tackling. I prefer Riedewald, just a better passer and tackler.

philsick 10-02-2020 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayP41ace (Post 15101120)
But you've spent 6 months moaning about how defensive we are?

So when our 1st choice left back comes back, who is more attacking and certainly offers us more going forward, he shouldn't play because a central player out of position (which is credit to him, but largely why he has been praised as much as he had) played better than anyone else (which wasn't difficult) for a month? When your fullbacks offer the attacking threat the midfielders need to offer the cover. We play 3 CM's in the same way Liverpool do, only theirs are infinitely better than ours, along with their full backs and forwards obviously.

The problem we are having this year is that our RB is dreadful past the half way line. There is zero threat from that side.
By having no threat on the right and nothing on the left side bar Wilf, teams are doubling up and taking him completely out the game.
It's not a surprise that Wilf had more impact in the Sheff Utd game with PVA back, than the previous 4/5 games without him.

The way we approach games is due to the personnel we have:
An attacking LB, that can't defend - PVA
A RW that is very defensive - AT
A defensive RB that cannot offer any threat going forward - JW, and he was replaced with an even less offensive RB for large parts!
A pair of strikers that can't finish or stay fit for any length of time CB and CW.

Our offensive play consists of PVA, Wilf and Ayew, and people want PVA dropped, with Wilf double or triple marked!

I didn't say dont play pva I said jairo deserved a place in the team over luka or McCarthy in midfield especially if we're thinking long term.

Crozzy71 10-02-2020 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spindle (Post 15101223)
PVA is a terrible passer of the ball and he often gives it away when our entire side is up the pitch. His best quality is his pace, it certainly isn't tackling. I prefer Riedewald, just a better passer and tackler.

Yep, this.

Timbo 10-02-2020 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PemboExpress (Post 15099569)
Jairo may have been voted potm but we have not won a game in 2020 and it was little more than a vote for someone who exceeded low expectations. Let's not pretend he set the month on fire.

This is the way I see it too. JR did much better than I thought but did not make himself undroppable, although that said I would have had no problem if he had continued in place of Luka or McCarthy

TennesseeKing 10-02-2020 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 15101255)
This is the way I see it too. JR did much better than I thought but did not make himself undroppable, although that said I would have had no problem if he had continued in place of Luka or McCarthy

There were definitely players far more deserving of being dropped (the two you mention are two of the better examples). One of my worries with our extended poor form is that Hodgson when he first joined us wasn't afraid of dropping underperforming players. It kept players on their toes and removed any complacency that may have existed. He dropped Puncheon, Hennessey and I think a couple of others early on I believe?

That is quite clearly not happening now, and when he brings players back in that aren't performing for players that whilst maybe not "undroppable" form wise probably didn't deserve to be replaced immediately. It's likely to cause resentment within the squad from players who feel like they haven't been given the same opportunities as underperforming favourites.

As a result, is our form actually like to pick up again any time soon? It's certainly a worrying trend.

Timbo 10-02-2020 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TennesseeKing (Post 15101264)
There were definitely players far more deserving of being dropped (the two you mention are two of the better examples). One of my worries with our extended poor form is that Hodgson when he first joined us wasn't afraid of dropping underperforming players. It kept players on their toes and removed any complacency that may have existed. He dropped Puncheon, Hennessey and I think a couple of others early on I believe?

That is quite clearly not happening now, and when he brings players back in that aren't performing for players that whilst maybe not "undroppable" form wise probably didn't deserve to be replaced immediately. It's likely to cause resentment within the squad from players who feel like they haven't been given the same opportunities as underperforming favourites.

As a result, is our form actually like to pick up again any time soon? It's certainly a worrying trend.

Good point

CharlieCPFC 29-02-2020 03:50 PM

Needs a run of games in the middle, so good in possession and reads the game so well. Fair play to Hodgson for giving him a run, the easy option would've been to bring Luka on. Good to see Jairo getting involved with the fans at the end too.

917L 29-02-2020 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieCPFC (Post 15119817)
Needs a run of games in the middle, so good in possession and reads the game so well. Fair play to Hodgson for giving him a run, the easy option would've been to bring Luka on. Good to see Jairo getting involved with the fans at the end too.

However he very poor in comparison to McCarthy, and opart of the reason we gave up midfield in the second half

Showed nothing to suggest he would be the answer to our lack of a play maker

Stellavista 29-02-2020 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieCPFC (Post 15119817)
Needs a run of games in the middle, so good in possession and reads the game so well. Fair play to Hodgson for giving him a run, the easy option would've been to bring Luka on. Good to see Jairo getting involved with the fans at the end too.

Yes. He just needs to impose himself a bit more in midfield. He's young, and it will come. He has the potential to be an important player for us. Pleased for him.

carter 29-02-2020 03:53 PM

I love the sliding interceptions he makes

CharlieCPFC 29-02-2020 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 917L (Post 15119821)
However he very poor in comparison to McCarthy, and opart of the reason we gave up midfield in the second half

Showed nothing to suggest he would be the answer to our lack of a play maker

Seriously?

He did a good job in my eyes and recycles possession well. Give him a run of games in the middle like McCarthy has and you'll see what he's capable of in his more natural position.

biggus mickus 29-02-2020 03:58 PM

So many managers, so many know better.

How many manage a Premier football team?

CP-RJW 29-02-2020 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggus mickus (Post 15119840)
So many managers, so many know better.

How many manage a Premier football team?

Not ‘so many’ in Jairo’s case to be fair, just Roy and 4 games of FDB.

917L 29-02-2020 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieCPFC (Post 15119836)
Seriously?

You don't think he was poor compared to McCarthy?

CharlieCPFC 29-02-2020 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 917L (Post 15119854)
You don't think he was poor compared to McCarthy?

I rate McCarthy and thought he was excellent today so comparing the two for me is pointless. Compare Jairo's performances to Lukas for example who gets gametime every week, that would be a better comparison.


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