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cockneyrebel 17-07-2019 11:56 AM

Tory Party
 
Given May is almost on her way out.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...paign=sharebar

Maz 17-07-2019 12:01 PM

Seems like a pretty rapid response from the Party.

Odd for you to post a thread inviting praise for the tories.

cockneyrebel 17-07-2019 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maz (Post 14825530)
Seems like a pretty rapid response from the Party.

Odd for you to post a thread inviting praise for the tories.

Not really. If you think they should be praised fair enough. Just a thread for the Tory party.

Selhurst Celtic 17-07-2019 03:22 PM

Any relation to Eric Joyce? Though he was Labour & violent, as opposed to Tory & racist.
Or William 'Lord Haw Haw' Joyce perhaps?

Sounds like the Joyce's should keep out of politics.

dogstar721 17-07-2019 03:24 PM

Well done the Conservative Party, for responding so quickly, and correctly in the matter.

west country boy 17-07-2019 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selhurst Celtic (Post 14825818)
Any relation to Eric Joyce? Though he was Labour & violent, as opposed to Tory & racist.
Or William 'Lord Haw Haw' Joyce perhaps?

Sounds like the Joyce's should keep out of politics.

All Joyces are tinkers and/or nonces in my o.

El Aguila 17-07-2019 05:39 PM

Even dear Yootha?

Bipe 17-07-2019 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by west country boy (Post 14825944)
All Joyces are tinkers and/or nonces in my o.

Joyce the voice??

How dare you sir.

Les Butler 17-07-2019 07:57 PM

Hunt doing his speech starting of with what his name rhymes with LOL

big bad John 18-07-2019 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selhurst Celtic (Post 14825818)

Sounds like the Joyce's should keep out of politics.

and out of Appleby:lux:

JDawg 10-08-2019 09:49 AM

The Conservatives have traditionally been seen as the safe pair of hands whilst others ideology have caused them electoral issues. But what we are now presented with is an increasingly fractured edifice with a number of parties within a party. If a government cannot command the support of their own party, how are they supposed to govern? Were this a blip, I could kinda see it but this has been building for 20 years and the battle for this party's soul risks wrecking the country.

The added issue is the same is true, to a degree, within the Labour party, so how are they effective in holding a government who can't govern to account? Why do Johnson and his cronies fear Farage more than Corbyn?

It is time the current form of this party to face reality. The only thing which seems to unite them appears to be a fear of being removed. Despite fractures in even this appearing, if this it, the party is serving itself rather than the electorate. Time for the party in its current form to disolve into its component parts. I won't vote for them again.

Reps AJ 10-08-2019 11:01 AM

This is the most horrendous, self-serving bunch of liars and incompetents I've ever seen

Spindle 21-08-2019 09:53 AM

Incompetents? No, they have done what they wanted to

Eg
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-49412835

the drexciyan 25-08-2019 05:52 AM

The tories reflect a 19th century economic paradigm that is increasingly shown to be busted, with their typical self-preservation, ever-decreasing circles head in sand responses. They cannot be an environmentalist party because they are at their core based on extracting every resource possible from the earth to sell and the increasingly bankrupt policies to achieve this.

I am constantly amazed to see them polling so high, but to achieve this now they are banking on getting a higher proportion of a diminishing voter base (EU leavers). This is not sustainable and they will get superceded eventually, at least i hope so..

RazorsEdge 25-08-2019 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the drexciyan (Post 14894949)
The tories reflect a 19th century economic paradigm that is increasingly shown to be busted, with their typical self-preservation, ever-decreasing circles head in sand responses. They cannot be an environmentalist party because they are at their core based on extracting every resource possible from the earth to sell and the increasingly bankrupt policies to achieve this.

I am constantly amazed to see them polling so high, but to achieve this now they are banking on getting a higher proportion of a diminishing voter base (EU leavers). This is not sustainable and they will get superceded eventually, at least i hope so..

Agree

bubbs11 28-08-2019 05:02 PM

Ruth Davidson is stepping down as Scots Tory leader

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...tland-49502861

GreatGonzo 29-08-2019 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbs11 (Post 14899617)
Ruth Davidson is stepping down as Scots Tory leader

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...tland-49502861

She has now done so. Her letter states because of the likelihood of a GE in the immediate future and the Scottish elections in 2021, she does not want to be away from her family campaigning for 2 elections in 20 months so has stood down.

Wolfnipplechips 29-08-2019 10:34 AM

Are you a paid party apparatchik Gonzo?

GreatGonzo 29-08-2019 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips (Post 14900310)
Are you a paid party apparatchik Gonzo?

What makes you say that. Just passing on the conformation she has gone on the thread it is mentioned and the reasons she has given.

Are you calling her a liar?

foetus eagle 29-08-2019 10:35 AM

You can say what you like about Ruth Davidson, but at least she knows how many children she has.

Adlerhorst 29-08-2019 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo (Post 14900308)
She has now done so. Her letter states because of the likelihood of a GE in the immediate future and the Scottish elections in 2021, she does not want to be away from her family campaigning for 2 elections in 20 months so has stood down.

Whether you think it is for this, or because of Boris or a bit of both, the Scotch Tories are pretty much ****ed now.

Went from 1 MP in 2015 to 13 in 2017, and that was primarily down to her. They are only in power now because of her. In a near future election a lot of those seats are likely to be lost, so that’s a lot of extra seats Boris has to win elsewhere.

GreatGonzo 29-08-2019 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adlerhorst (Post 14900315)
Whether you think it is for this, or because of Boris or a bit of both, the Scotch Tories are pretty much ****ed now.

Went from 1 MP in 2015 to 13 in 2017, and that was primarily down to her. So in a future election a lot of those seats are likely to be lost, so thatís a lot of extra seats Boris has to win elsewhere.

Depends a little on the successor but yes, she was one of, if not the most well thought of Tory politician and many would have liked to have seen her leading the party.

She has made no secret of her position on Brexit, but i am inclined to believe the underlying reasons for it being family. The timing the day after Johnson's decision will always raise suspicions though. Equally Holyrood is due to sit again on Monday and it also makes sense that her announcement came before that.

ExiledStirling 29-08-2019 11:21 AM

She was the only one who had the wherewith all to hold the SNP government to account.

She transformed the Tories up here and deposing Labour as the second party is testament to how good she was. However I feel she has recently, both before and after her maternity leave, appeared to become less her own person and more a mouthpiece for central office and less convincing and effective for it.

adrenalin john 29-08-2019 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExiledStirling (Post 14900387)
I feel she has recently, both before and after her maternity leave, appeared to become less her own person and more a mouthpiece for central office and less convincing and effective for it.

Interesting. Not going against Boris or central office directly but also being on the right side of Brexit could be an insurance policy against leaving any hostages out there.

It makes me wonder if she has a longer term plan, involving national leadership. If so dropping out now for legitimate family reasons means her record remains utterly unblemished and she avoids what is likely to be an utter cluster**** over the next few years.

As a Scottish woman of charm, charisma, communication skills and a degree of humanity so often absolutely absent in the tory genetic make up, I think she could appeal to a broad spectrum in a UK wide election. Once her boy starts school obviously.

ExiledStirling 29-08-2019 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrenalin john (Post 14900410)
Interesting. Not going against Boris or central office directly but also being on the right side of Brexit could be an insurance policy against leaving any hostages out there.

It makes me wonder if she has a longer term plan, involving national leadership. If so dropping out now for legitimate family reasons means her record remains utterly unblemished and she avoids what is likely to be an utter cluster**** over the next few years.

As a Scottish woman of charm, charisma, communication skills and a degree of humanity so often absolutely absent in the tory genetic make up, I think she could appeal to a broad spectrum in a UK wide election. Once her boy starts school obviously.

You may have a point.

If she decides to stand down as an MSP at any point and puts herself forward as a Tory party candidate in a Westminster seat, then her course will be set to try and become a future Tory leader.

the drexciyan 31-08-2019 04:43 PM

Why is she even a tory? For them she's like Andy Carroll to football, about 30 years out of date.

Philipw 01-09-2019 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the drexciyan (Post 14902993)
Why is she even a tory? For them she's like Andy Carroll to football, about 30 years out of date.

you may be surprised to hear this, but not all Tories are clones of Boris and Rees Mogg...

Ruskin Old Boy 01-09-2019 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipw (Post 14904449)
you may be surprised to hear this, but not all Tories are clones of Boris and Rees Mogg...

You've met Gonzo then?

bubbs11 04-09-2019 05:55 AM

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews...-list-mps/amp/

So 21 Tories losing the whip.

It’s Twilight Zone stuff. Are the Tories finally about to eat themselves to death?

DANGERMOUSE 04-09-2019 06:57 AM

Was Labour this bad around the time of the SDP defections? I'm trying to think of a time in modern politics when a major party has torn itself to bits like the Tories are doing now.

NickP 04-09-2019 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipw (Post 14904449)
you may be surprised to hear this, but not all Tories are clones of Boris and Rees Mogg...

They will be soon.

SE25 exile 04-09-2019 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipw (Post 14904449)
you may be surprised to hear this, but not all Tories are clones of Boris and Rees Mogg...

Agreed, but those 21 Tory MPs have now been sacked today by the dicktator, so you need to revise your view.

BillyTKid 04-09-2019 08:05 AM

I’ve pretty much always voted Conservative but I’m going to be voting Lib Dem. Over the last few years the party has been moving further and further away from my centralist position. I find their doubling down on hard Brexit to be a massively short term move and a big problem to the party over the longer term. I know the demographic of the Tory vote has always been skewed towards the older vote but I feel this will be particularly the case at the next election. I’m 38 and feel the party has become completely outdated and can’t see where younger new Tory votes will come from in the future.

weltklasse 04-09-2019 08:38 AM

Denial is never a good place to be:D

https://pbs.twimg.com/amplify_video_...jpg&name=small

weltklasse 04-09-2019 08:41 AM

quote from Keith Simpson MP

"What moron in No10 thought up this wheeze."

lowenand 04-09-2019 08:41 AM

Shameful behaviour. Rees-Mogg has voted over 100 times against his own party. Now someone does it once and they are out.

dogstar721 04-09-2019 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbs11 (Post 14906591)
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews...-list-mps/amp/

So 21 Tories losing the whip.

Itís Twilight Zone stuff. Are the Tories finally about to eat themselves to death?

Pretty much, given some of those names on that list are among the most respected members of the party. Sacking Ken Clarke would have been unimaginable under just about any Tory Leader.

It'd be like Heath sacking Thatcher or Thatcher sacking Hessletine because they didn't agree with them. Dark days for the conservative party as its going to effectively slough off its moderate MPs and probably in doing so lose them to the Liberal Democrats or see them stand well as independents at the next election (and split their vote).

If they're lucky, Ken Clarke will stand down. if he stands as an independent, chances are he'll get at least half the tory vote in his constituency (probably delivering a seat for the Lib Dems.

It seems to me, that Borris Johnson is now reliant election wise on forming a coailition of the DUP, with the Brexit Party / UKIP or whatever they'll be called by then under Farage (an unlikely prospect that either would be willing to take the lesser role).

F**ked in the eyes of anyone who is remotely interested in policitcs beyond polemics, are the tories.

GreatGonzo 04-09-2019 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogstar721 (Post 14906763)
Pretty much, given some of those names on that list are among the most respected members of the party. Sacking Ken Clarke would have been unimaginable under just about any Tory Leader.

It'd be like Heath sacking Thatcher or Thatcher sacking Hessletine because they didn't agree with them. Dark days for the conservative party as its going to effectively slough off its moderate MPs and probably in doing so lose them to the Liberal Democrats or see them stand well as independents at the next election (and split their vote).

If they're lucky, Ken Clarke will stand down. if he stands as an independent, chances are he'll get at least half the tory vote in his constituency (probably delivering a seat for the Lib Dems.

It seems to me, that Borris Johnson is now reliant election wise on forming a coailition of the DUP, with the Brexit Party / UKIP or whatever they'll be called by then under Farage (an unlikely prospect that either would be willing to take the lesser role).

F**ked in the eyes of anyone who is remotely interested in policitcs beyond polemics, are the tories.

How will it deliver a seat to the Lib Dems?

He got 30,223 last time, the Lib Dems 2.759. Labout were the nearest challenger on 22,213.

If he stands, as he has said in 2015 he would not stand in 2020, then the Tory electorate may view that not voting Tory risks letting Corbyn in.

Spindle 04-09-2019 09:32 AM

Yes you'd rather have the current lot in the midst of their turf war than an actual functioning majority government.....

GreatGonzo 04-09-2019 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spindle (Post 14906799)
Yes you'd rather have the current lot in the midst of their turf war than an actual functioning majority government.....

Can you offer a good option?

Are the Lib Dems going to secure a majority government? If not it remains that the only 2 who could would be Labour and the Conservatives.

This is better IMO than a majority Corbyn government based on his 2017 manifesto.

dogstar721 04-09-2019 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo (Post 14906774)
How will it deliver a seat to the Lib Dems?

He got 30,223 last time, the Lib Dems 2.759. Labout were the nearest challenger on 22,213.

If he stands, as he has said in 2015 he would not stand in 2020, then the Tory electorate may view that not voting Tory risks letting Corbyn in.

Hahaha got me there, I didn't look specifically at the details. Yes, it could certainly deliver a seat to Labour.

Brexit will dominate the next election (which will be sooner than Brexit no doubt). People won't worry so much about delivering a seat for Labour, they'll vote entirely around their concerns regarding Brexit. I suspect that both the Conservatives and Labour will lose out, significantly.

We won't get a majority government - But I think you'll see the power brokers being the Lib Dems.

El Aguila 04-09-2019 10:13 AM

I wonder if this demonising of Corbyn might not be counter productive if it came to an election. People might get to an election and check out manifestos and think that perhaps he isn't quite the democracy and the British way that he's been painted, compared to the alternatives.

Philipw 04-09-2019 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SE25 exile (Post 14906631)
Agreed, but those 21 Tory MPs have now been sacked today by the dicktator, so you need to revise your view.

I meant the 15 million odd people who vote for them, not just the MPs...

Spindle 04-09-2019 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo (Post 14906806)
Can you offer a good option?

Are the Lib Dems going to secure a majority government? If not it remains that the only 2 who could would be Labour and the Conservatives.

This is better IMO than a majority Corbyn government based on his 2017 manifesto.

The fully costed Labour manifesto you mean? Vs what? Nothing has been done, it's all a total shitshow. And the irony is that the man saying "Let's get on with it so we can get back to talking about schools and hospitals" is the utter twat who switched from remain to leave and swung the vote to create the shitshow in the first place.

Tories. What a bunch of shits.

bubbs11 08-09-2019 05:57 AM

Amber Ruddís quit now. Is there going to be anyone left?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...itics-49623737

Spindle 08-09-2019 06:37 AM

Now the New Fascist tory party want to break yet more convention by standing against Bercow

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49624334

Andrea Lothesome, a sub-human.

in-exile 08-09-2019 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spindle (Post 14910269)
Now the New Fascist tory party want to break yet more convention by standing against Bercow

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49624334

Andrea Lothesome, a sub-human.

Why not .... The same Bercow who breaks convention and traditions of the Speakers job and house all the time.

in-exile 08-09-2019 07:01 AM

I've just joined the Tunbridge Wells Tory party ... So I can be ready to deselect one of the rebels!
Unless it's within 3 months of Friday .... as I would re nationalise trains water companies and other Utilities ... Increase spending on the NHS and schools .... Maybe I shouldn't go along to local party meetings... Hey ho brexit is brexit!
Just need the Brexit/Tory election Pact .... For guaranteed election Victory!

Spindle 08-09-2019 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910276)
Why not .... The same Bercow who breaks convention and traditions of the Speakers job and house all the time.

Got any evidence to back that up?

Another parasite in the tories to help ruin them. Fantastic :p

SE25 exile 08-09-2019 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910276)
Why not .... The same Bercow who breaks convention and traditions of the Speakers job and house all the time.

The Tories are very good these days at breaking conventions, and I don't believe Bercow is one of them. Look no further than your own loser leader Johnson, who told members publicly yesterday he is going to break the law of the land deliberately,becuse he is not good enough to deliver on his promises any other way but I guess because that doesn't suit your bias, you will duly ignore it.

SE25 exile 08-09-2019 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910278)
I've just joined the Tunbridge Wells Tory party ... So I can be ready to deselect one of the rebels!
Unless it's within 3 months of Friday .... as I would re nationalise trains water companies and other Utilities ... Increase spending on the NHS and schools .... Maybe I shouldn't go along to local party meetings... Hey ho brexit is brexit!
Just need the Brexit/Tory election Pact .... For guaranteed election Victory!

Disgruntled of Tunbridge Wells

LOL

in-exile 08-09-2019 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SE25 exile (Post 14910283)
The Tories are very good these days at breaking conventions, and I don't believe Bercow is one of them. You should look no further than your own loser leader Johnson, who told members publicly yesterday he is going to break the law of the land deliberately, but I guess because that doesn't suit your bias, will duly ignore it.

But the convention was wrongly and biasedly broken by Rat Bercow to take power away from the executive in the first place... Breaking tradition by a meant to be impartial speaker.... Disregarding 100s of years of tradition ... The remainers in Parliament don't represent the people's will on this matter and have staged a European Union backed destruction of democracy .... The Rebels in Parliament took legal advice and assurances from the European Union before the votes even when in.... Completely traitorous dogs.
We had a vote .... The same remain MPs delegated their power to the public Will.

in-exile 08-09-2019 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SE25 exile (Post 14910284)
Disgruntled of Tunbridge Wells

LOL

:p :supergrin:.

in-exile 08-09-2019 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spindle (Post 14910280)
Got any evidence to back that up?

Another parasite in the tories to help ruin them. Fantastic :p

the parasites are in Parliament!

wedgetail 08-09-2019 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910278)
I've just joined the Tunbridge Wells Tory party ... So I can be ready to deselect one of the rebels!
Unless it's within 3 months of Friday .... as I would re nationalise trains water companies and other Utilities ... Increase spending on the NHS and schools .... Maybe I shouldn't go along to local party meetings... Hey ho brexit is brexit!
Just need the Brexit/Tory election Pact .... For guaranteed election Victory!

So you are proud that you wish to impoverish your country, wreck the health and rights of its citizens and put the government under the control of foreign actors.

Harold 08-09-2019 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910278)
I've just joined the Tunbridge Wells Tory party ... So I can be ready to deselect one of the rebels!
Unless it's within 3 months of Friday .... as I would re nationalise trains water companies and other Utilities ... Increase spending on the NHS and schools .... Maybe I shouldn't go along to local party meetings... Hey ho brexit is brexit!
Just need the Brexit/Tory election Pact .... For guaranteed election Victory!

That's my fear as well. Let's face it, despite their differences on the type of Brexit, the Brexit Party is going to be far more inclined to lean hard right than left. I think that's why we are seeing the tactics from Labour that we are seeing, to try to divide them first, ahead of an election. Mind you, I'm no expert and just guessing. In fact im not sure that this is the tactic now. They'll probably still end up siding with the tories anyway and the libdems will split the labour vote. What a mess. At least it's good that the tories seem finished as a party. Kind of poetic justice really for breaking the country.

SE25 exile 08-09-2019 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910288)
But the convention was wrongly and biasedly broken by Rat Bercow to take power away from the executive in the first place... Breaking tradition by a meant to be impartial speaker.... Disregarding 100s of years of tradition ... The remainers in Parliament don't represent the people's will on this matter and have staged a European Union backed destruction of democracy .... The Rebels in Parliament took legal advice and assurances from the European Union before the votes even when in.... Completely traitorous dogs.
We had a vote .... The same remain MPs delegated their power to the public Will.

Actually parliament has represented the will of the country pretty accurately. The referendum was 52/48 and so essentially almost evenly split like parliament. The reason things haven't gone your way and there is now an anti no deal alliance in the house, is purely down to to the reckless and ill judged strategy of Cummings pulling a subservient Johnson's strings. In one week between them, they have alienated 23 of their own MPs, many of whom voted for May's Brexit deal on all three occasions. The ERG and the Tory membership are to blame for this basically by voting in someone who is equally as selfish, reckless and myopic as themselves, and now are seemingly dismayed and angry by the bleeding obvious outcome. It isn't going to end well for your party, Mr Entryist, and ranting on nonsense about traitors and fake claims of breaking conventions is not helping anyone.

in-exile 08-09-2019 07:51 AM

Don't be silly you know MPs don't represent the people on this issue.... Respect if you want to remain but don't be silly.

in-exile 08-09-2019 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedgetail (Post 14910299)
So you are proud that you wish to impoverish your country, wreck the health and rights of its citizens and put the government under the control of foreign actors.

Brexit is everything for now ... Finally get it done we can go back to domestic policies.
You believe the country will be poorer I don't believe that ... I can then go back to singing things can only get better .. which I voted for but soon realise Tony Blair was a fraud.
We allo know the Tory party cannot be trusted on the NHS or on normal working class school funding .... Social care and cash for the disabled and so on.
If Parliament wasn't in the zombie lockdown paralysis our country might be moving forward.

SE25 exile 08-09-2019 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910315)
Don't be silly you know MPs don't represent the people on this issue.... Respect if you want to remain but don't be silly.

I am not asking for your respect thanks. I am only interested in a resolution to this impasse that does no further damage our country. I have even got to the point now where I would accept a Norwegian style leave option, you know, the one that Farage was promoting during the 2016 campaign and has now ditched in favour of no deal at all, because he thinks he can get away with it in the current climate. However, Johnson, is not interested in any kind of deal and has sold your party totally off to Farage, as illustrated by your own comment on a pact. Your party is now far right, and has scotched any potential deal that might have saved our country from entering decades of uncertainty and damage.

Well done.

Reps AJ 08-09-2019 08:01 AM

Got to ask yourself what is the end game for the Tory Brexiters

Big Blue Eagle 08-09-2019 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reps AJ (Post 14910327)
Got to ask yourself what is the end game for the Tory Brexiters

££££££££££

SE25 exile 08-09-2019 08:03 AM

Power and extra cash for themselves?

mte103 08-09-2019 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910315)
Don't be silly you know MPs don't represent the people on this issue.... Respect if you want to remain but don't be silly.

When the history books are written I think it'll be clear the majority of MPs will have been trying to protect the people from their own stupid decision; the bottom line is the average MP is going to be on average more intelligent, more educated, and much more privy to actual facts and evidence than the average person - and on the basis of nothing else, that most aren't prepared to pursue a no deal Eu Exit, this should ring massive red alarm bells.

But to a huge swathe of the population, evidence and facts don't seem to matter.

Not a dig at you in particular, just the whole 'quisling mp' line.

in-exile 08-09-2019 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reps AJ (Post 14910327)
Got to ask yourself what is the end game for the Tory Brexiters

probably depends if they own a fund or their friends do.. I guess some others like most of us just want a normal country and Parliament ...

adrenalin john 08-09-2019 08:06 AM

In exile, are you being serious? Or are you having fun with a cliched parody?

bubbs11 08-09-2019 08:06 AM

I honestly think a Tory/Brexit pact would not be the vote winner many leavers believe it will be in a GE. The Euro elections were a bit of a red herring. If Labour and the Libs do a pact of sorts supporting a Peopleís vote, then I can see the Tories being absolutely slaughtered at the polls.

in-exile 08-09-2019 08:07 AM

And whats in it for the CBI and Goldman Sachs and all the other big money interests ... To constantly be trying to get us to stay in?
Sweetness of heart?

in-exile 08-09-2019 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrenalin john (Post 14910336)
In exile, are you being serious? Or are you having fun with a cliched parody?

sorry representing the majority wanting this done...:(

adrenalin john 08-09-2019 08:09 AM

Also if a hard brexit is what you want and you honestly believe this is the type of Brexit that the people want then why the fear of a end referendum, that decided what type of leave the people want - or not

wedgetail 08-09-2019 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reps AJ (Post 14910327)
Got to ask yourself what is the end game for the Tory Brexiters

They have a lot in common with the taliban, they would rather have their narrow vision of a Britain based on constructed myths in a broken and impoverished country than share a prosperous open and diverse society.

adrenalin john 08-09-2019 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910340)
sorry representing the majority wanting this done...:(

I wasnt taking the piss, it was a legitimate question. I understand now you are a labour inclined hard core brexiteer.

Sadly, Brexit is not going to deliver the social and financial benefits you believe

El Aguila 08-09-2019 08:15 AM

A no deal Brexit without a referendum seems as mad as revoking - even more of a minority view and would fatally divide the country for decades.

wedgetail 08-09-2019 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910338)
And whats in it for the CBI and Goldman Sachs and all the other big money interests ... To constantly be trying to get us to stay in?
Sweetness of heart?

They can make more money out of a rich country. For the CBI they just want to exist in 10 years time, as for the big banks, they will just go with the (money) flow, however, you seem to miss the fact that the really big money interests just want a quick pillage and plunder of the UK, for them brexit is just a turning point.

Just why are you so keen for the UK to become a puppet state of US corporate power?

Les Butler 08-09-2019 08:25 AM

I think what the Tory, Labour whoever Brexiters want is to leave whatever,it's got so polarized whatever anyone says its become like two rival football teams where one side makes sense but calls the other condescending abusive names at every opportunity and the other stopped listening a long time ago.

Its leave or stay..That simple.

If there is a gen election it depends on how many on both sides can hold their noses and support a team they have never supported before that they would never have dreamed of doing up until Brexit.

adrenalin john 08-09-2019 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Aguila (Post 14910350)
A no deal Brexit without a referendum seems as mad as revoking - even more of a minority view and would fatally divide the country for decades.

The Liberals are hard core remain, but even they would have a 2nd referendum rather than act without the consent of the people.

I really can't see the problem with a 2nd referendum that gives people the choices on offer.

May's deal
Remain
WTO
Norway

First to 50 percent wins, transferable vote system.

Big Blue Eagle 08-09-2019 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrenalin john (Post 14910361)
The Liberals are hard core remain, but even they would have a 2nd referendum rather than act without the consent of the people.

I really can't see the problem with a 2nd referendum that gives people the choices on offer.

May's deal
Remain
WTO
Norway

First to 50 percent wins, transferable vote system.

In an ideal world maybe, but the great British electorate are schooled in simple A or B choices, one winner immediately known. If some form of Lab/LD/SNP coalition gets in, it will be a straight choice - this deal or revoke and stay.

Langers 08-09-2019 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Aguila (Post 14910350)
A no deal Brexit without a referendum seems as mad as revoking - even more of a minority view and would fatally divide the country for decades.

The Tory’s are desperate to hand over Brexit to another party - it is undeliverable and they know the reality of any sort of Brexit will lead to political fall out. Many in the party would be happy to go into opposition and rebuild but I doubt the factions in the Tory party will ever be reconciled - it will never be the same.

Im hoping for a Macron style national unity government in the UK - can’t see it yet but it will come

Joe85 08-09-2019 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910278)
I've just joined the Tunbridge Wells Tory party ... So I can be ready to deselect one of the rebels!
Unless it's within 3 months of Friday .... as I would re nationalise trains water companies and other Utilities ... Increase spending on the NHS and schools .... Maybe I shouldn't go along to local party meetings... Hey ho brexit is brexit!
Just need the Brexit/Tory election Pact .... For guaranteed election Victory!



Bloody hell mate. Sad reading.

westsussexeagle 08-09-2019 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reps AJ (Post 14910327)
Got to ask yourself what is the end game for the Tory Brexiters

You might not need to look much further than the EU Tax Avoidance legislation that is on the horizon. Many of the main players in Brexit, Rees Mogg, Aaron Banks, the Barclay Brothers etc. all put in an appearance in the Paradise Papers. Forget the Sovereignty bollocks, this is all about the rich looking after number one.

NickP 08-09-2019 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langers (Post 14910369)

I hoping for a Macron in the UK - can’t see it yet but it will come

God that's sad. Macron is despised in a lot France and there's been ongoing protests in the streets.

The only good thing about it him, and in fact the reason he got the votes, was that it was him or out-and-out labelled fascism.

El Aguila 08-09-2019 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrenalin john (Post 14910361)
The Liberals are hard core remain, but even they would have a 2nd referendum rather than act without the consent of the people.

I really can't see the problem with a 2nd referendum that gives people the choices on offer.

May's deal
Remain
WTO
Norway

First to 50 percent wins, transferable vote system.

It's the least bad option, at this point - that, or May's deal.

Walter Wort 08-09-2019 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westsussexeagle (Post 14910385)
You might not need to look much further than the EU Tax Avoidance legislation that is on the horizon. Many of the main players in Brexit, Rees Mogg, Aaron Banks, the Barclay Brothers etc. all put in an appearance in the Paradise Papers. Forget the Sovereignty bollocks, this is all about the rich looking after number one.

Spot on.

davech 08-09-2019 09:42 AM

Therese Coffey, new Secretary for State for Work and Pensions. This is the person who proposed that pensioners should pay National Insurance.

spt1978 08-09-2019 09:48 AM

Have always voted Tory but Boris has completely lost it.

Time to join the LD.

spt1978 08-09-2019 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davech (Post 14910427)
Therese Coffey, new Secretary for State for Work and Pensions. This is the person who proposed that pensioners should pay National Insurance.

Tories wonít touch the pensioners, itís the only voters they are going to have left.

Langers 08-09-2019 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickP (Post 14910387)
God that's sad. Macron is despised in a lot France and there's been ongoing protests in the streets.

The only good thing about it him, and in fact the reason he got the votes, was that it was him or out-and-out labelled fascism.

Unpopular but in power and fronting up against the populism of the left and right - I can see similarities with the UK but with no Macron figure at the moment. We are potentially about to dabble with the hard right or hard left - neither will turn out well and be short lived.

cockneyrebel 08-09-2019 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langers (Post 14910435)
Unpopular but in power and fronting up against the populism of the left and right - I can see similarities with the UK but with no Macron figure at the moment. We are potentially about to dabble with the hard right or hard left - neither will turn out well and be short lived.

And neither will Macron turn out well. Worst case scenario he paves the way for Le Pen.

Stellavista 08-09-2019 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langers (Post 14910435)
Unpopular but in power and fronting up against the populism of the left and right - I can see similarities with the UK but with no Macron figure at the moment. We are potentially about to dabble with the hard right or hard left - neither will turn out well and be short lived.

The 'hard left' in the UK is not the Labour Party. It's 2017 manifesto was a decent document, with proposals that are considered centrist in many EU countries. Ignore the Daily Mail Bogeyman.

Langers 08-09-2019 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyrebel (Post 14910450)
And neither will Macron turn out well. Worst case scenario he paves the way for Le Pen.

And that is the horror show of modern day politics - the tech revolution and globalisation is changing the post war order of political parties and potentially we are heading towards a new era of authoritarianism

Langers 08-09-2019 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stellavista (Post 14910455)
The 'hard left' in the UK is not the Labour Party. It's 2017 manifesto was a decent document, with proposals that are considered centrist in many EU countries. Ignore the Daily Mail Bogeyman.

Agreed - not the Labour Party but potentially a Corbyn government (I actually think Corbyn will much more main stream than predicted and a far better option than No Deal)

Johnybegood 08-09-2019 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spt1978 (Post 14910432)
Have always voted Tory but Boris has completely lost it.

Time to join the LD.

My sister in law said the same this morning and she even voted for IDS.

NickP 08-09-2019 11:27 AM

So according to the polls EITHER the Tories have raced to a massive lead (YouGov) OR the polls have closed to practically level (DeltaPoll).

You have to begin to wonder about how accurate they actually are.

Stellavista 09-09-2019 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910338)
And whats in it for the CBI and Goldman Sachs and all the other big money interests ... To constantly be trying to get us to stay in?
Sweetness of heart?

What about our exporters? What about the tariffs that will hammer them if we go no deal/WTO? Do you think your life is somehow immune from this shit, or it simply 'the will of the people'?
In any measure of sanity, this is voting for the padded room. What about freedom of movement in Europe, what about reciprocal health care, what about medical research funding and crime agency co-operation, what about Erasmus and other educational programes, what about UK nationals residing and working on mainland Europe? Shall I go on? But you boil it down to the wishes of the banks and corporate business. Even John McDonnell (bogeyman no 2) sees the folly of this. Still, blue passports (which we've always been able to have), parliamentary sovereignty (which is in the process of being trashed) and 'control of our borders' ( which we've always had, but which successive governments have failed to act on).

SE25 exile 09-09-2019 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickP (Post 14910525)
So according to the polls EITHER the Tories have raced to a massive lead (YouGov) OR the polls have closed to practically level (DeltaPoll).

You have to begin to wonder about how accurate they actually are.

Well yes. They have been pretty good at establishing trends in the past, if not accurate in percentage terms, but even that seems to have gone now. It would be a very brave person to put too much money on any specific outcome at the moment.

dogstar721 09-09-2019 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrenalin john (Post 14910361)
The Liberals are hard core remain, but even they would have a 2nd referendum rather than act without the consent of the people.

I really can't see the problem with a 2nd referendum that gives people the choices on offer.

May's deal
Remain
WTO
Norway

First to 50 percent wins, transferable vote system.

I assume WTO is no deal. They'd proably have to call it that otherwise people will complain that No Deal isn't on the list. :o Also I think Norway would be better put as EFA - which is what that really is.

Rate them in order. 1 to 4 in terms of preference, 4 being highest preference. Score 4, 3, 2 or 1 pt.

Highest score wins

dogstar721 09-09-2019 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stellavista (Post 14911451)
What about our exporters? What about the tariffs that will hammer them if we go no deal/WTO? Do you think your life is somehow immune from this shit, or it simply 'the will of the people'?
In any measure of sanity, this is voting for the padded room. What about freedom of movement in Europe, what about reciprocal health care, what about medical research funding and crime agency co-operation, what about Erasmus and other educational programes, what about UK nationals residing and working on mainland Europe? Shall I go on? But you boil it down to the wishes of the banks and corporate business. Even John McDonnell (bogeyman no 2) sees the folly of this. Still, blue passports (which we've always been able to have), parliamentary sovereignty (which is in the process of being trashed) and 'control of our borders' ( which we've always had, but which successive governments have failed to act on).

Yep, for all the talk of how Corbyn and McDonnell will 'destroy the UK' both of them seem to be against leaving a captialist trade organisation without a deal because they know that the consequences and risk are staggering compared to the reward.

Now doubt they've been added to the 'conspiracy of the elites', along with Jo Swanson.

Cambridge Eagle 09-09-2019 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickP (Post 14910525)
So according to the polls EITHER the Tories have raced to a massive lead (YouGov) OR the polls have closed to practically level (DeltaPoll).

You have to begin to wonder about how accurate they actually are.

Clearly at least one of them is completely inaccurate! Or they are asking slightly different questions.

Cambridge Eagle 09-09-2019 02:06 PM

Also on subject of polling, this is from Pippa Crerar (Mirror Journo):

A Number 10 mole tells me that the private polling actually shows the Tories would currently win ��287 seats ��(YouGov. Sample 50,000)


This is response to No 10 leaks suggesting the Tories think they'd get about 300 seats. They realise they will lose seats in London, Scotland and the South West and will need to pick up seats in Labour heartlands just to stand still.


Personally I could envisage anything from a Tory Landslide to a Labour Landslide. People just don't seem to know what they want.

smileysmith 09-09-2019 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westsussexeagle (Post 14910385)
You might not need to look much further than the EU Tax Avoidance legislation that is on the horizon. Many of the main players in Brexit, Rees Mogg, Aaron Banks, the Barclay Brothers etc. all put in an appearance in the Paradise Papers. Forget the Sovereignty bollocks, this is all about the rich looking after number one.

Where's Adler today?


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