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NickP 08-09-2019 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langers (Post 14910369)

I hoping for a Macron in the UK - can’t see it yet but it will come

God that's sad. Macron is despised in a lot France and there's been ongoing protests in the streets.

The only good thing about it him, and in fact the reason he got the votes, was that it was him or out-and-out labelled fascism.

El Aguila 08-09-2019 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrenalin john (Post 14910361)
The Liberals are hard core remain, but even they would have a 2nd referendum rather than act without the consent of the people.

I really can't see the problem with a 2nd referendum that gives people the choices on offer.

May's deal
Remain
WTO
Norway

First to 50 percent wins, transferable vote system.

It's the least bad option, at this point - that, or May's deal.

Walter Wort 08-09-2019 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westsussexeagle (Post 14910385)
You might not need to look much further than the EU Tax Avoidance legislation that is on the horizon. Many of the main players in Brexit, Rees Mogg, Aaron Banks, the Barclay Brothers etc. all put in an appearance in the Paradise Papers. Forget the Sovereignty bollocks, this is all about the rich looking after number one.

Spot on.

davech 08-09-2019 09:42 AM

Therese Coffey, new Secretary for State for Work and Pensions. This is the person who proposed that pensioners should pay National Insurance.

spt1978 08-09-2019 09:48 AM

Have always voted Tory but Boris has completely lost it.

Time to join the LD.

spt1978 08-09-2019 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davech (Post 14910427)
Therese Coffey, new Secretary for State for Work and Pensions. This is the person who proposed that pensioners should pay National Insurance.

Tories wonít touch the pensioners, itís the only voters they are going to have left.

Langers 08-09-2019 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickP (Post 14910387)
God that's sad. Macron is despised in a lot France and there's been ongoing protests in the streets.

The only good thing about it him, and in fact the reason he got the votes, was that it was him or out-and-out labelled fascism.

Unpopular but in power and fronting up against the populism of the left and right - I can see similarities with the UK but with no Macron figure at the moment. We are potentially about to dabble with the hard right or hard left - neither will turn out well and be short lived.

cockneyrebel 08-09-2019 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langers (Post 14910435)
Unpopular but in power and fronting up against the populism of the left and right - I can see similarities with the UK but with no Macron figure at the moment. We are potentially about to dabble with the hard right or hard left - neither will turn out well and be short lived.

And neither will Macron turn out well. Worst case scenario he paves the way for Le Pen.

Stellavista 08-09-2019 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langers (Post 14910435)
Unpopular but in power and fronting up against the populism of the left and right - I can see similarities with the UK but with no Macron figure at the moment. We are potentially about to dabble with the hard right or hard left - neither will turn out well and be short lived.

The 'hard left' in the UK is not the Labour Party. It's 2017 manifesto was a decent document, with proposals that are considered centrist in many EU countries. Ignore the Daily Mail Bogeyman.

Langers 08-09-2019 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyrebel (Post 14910450)
And neither will Macron turn out well. Worst case scenario he paves the way for Le Pen.

And that is the horror show of modern day politics - the tech revolution and globalisation is changing the post war order of political parties and potentially we are heading towards a new era of authoritarianism

Langers 08-09-2019 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stellavista (Post 14910455)
The 'hard left' in the UK is not the Labour Party. It's 2017 manifesto was a decent document, with proposals that are considered centrist in many EU countries. Ignore the Daily Mail Bogeyman.

Agreed - not the Labour Party but potentially a Corbyn government (I actually think Corbyn will much more main stream than predicted and a far better option than No Deal)

Johnybegood 08-09-2019 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spt1978 (Post 14910432)
Have always voted Tory but Boris has completely lost it.

Time to join the LD.

My sister in law said the same this morning and she even voted for IDS.

NickP 08-09-2019 11:27 AM

So according to the polls EITHER the Tories have raced to a massive lead (YouGov) OR the polls have closed to practically level (DeltaPoll).

You have to begin to wonder about how accurate they actually are.

Stellavista 09-09-2019 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14910338)
And whats in it for the CBI and Goldman Sachs and all the other big money interests ... To constantly be trying to get us to stay in?
Sweetness of heart?

What about our exporters? What about the tariffs that will hammer them if we go no deal/WTO? Do you think your life is somehow immune from this shit, or it simply 'the will of the people'?
In any measure of sanity, this is voting for the padded room. What about freedom of movement in Europe, what about reciprocal health care, what about medical research funding and crime agency co-operation, what about Erasmus and other educational programes, what about UK nationals residing and working on mainland Europe? Shall I go on? But you boil it down to the wishes of the banks and corporate business. Even John McDonnell (bogeyman no 2) sees the folly of this. Still, blue passports (which we've always been able to have), parliamentary sovereignty (which is in the process of being trashed) and 'control of our borders' ( which we've always had, but which successive governments have failed to act on).

SE25 exile 09-09-2019 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickP (Post 14910525)
So according to the polls EITHER the Tories have raced to a massive lead (YouGov) OR the polls have closed to practically level (DeltaPoll).

You have to begin to wonder about how accurate they actually are.

Well yes. They have been pretty good at establishing trends in the past, if not accurate in percentage terms, but even that seems to have gone now. It would be a very brave person to put too much money on any specific outcome at the moment.

dogstar721 09-09-2019 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrenalin john (Post 14910361)
The Liberals are hard core remain, but even they would have a 2nd referendum rather than act without the consent of the people.

I really can't see the problem with a 2nd referendum that gives people the choices on offer.

May's deal
Remain
WTO
Norway

First to 50 percent wins, transferable vote system.

I assume WTO is no deal. They'd proably have to call it that otherwise people will complain that No Deal isn't on the list. :o Also I think Norway would be better put as EFA - which is what that really is.

Rate them in order. 1 to 4 in terms of preference, 4 being highest preference. Score 4, 3, 2 or 1 pt.

Highest score wins

dogstar721 09-09-2019 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stellavista (Post 14911451)
What about our exporters? What about the tariffs that will hammer them if we go no deal/WTO? Do you think your life is somehow immune from this shit, or it simply 'the will of the people'?
In any measure of sanity, this is voting for the padded room. What about freedom of movement in Europe, what about reciprocal health care, what about medical research funding and crime agency co-operation, what about Erasmus and other educational programes, what about UK nationals residing and working on mainland Europe? Shall I go on? But you boil it down to the wishes of the banks and corporate business. Even John McDonnell (bogeyman no 2) sees the folly of this. Still, blue passports (which we've always been able to have), parliamentary sovereignty (which is in the process of being trashed) and 'control of our borders' ( which we've always had, but which successive governments have failed to act on).

Yep, for all the talk of how Corbyn and McDonnell will 'destroy the UK' both of them seem to be against leaving a captialist trade organisation without a deal because they know that the consequences and risk are staggering compared to the reward.

Now doubt they've been added to the 'conspiracy of the elites', along with Jo Swanson.

Cambridge Eagle 09-09-2019 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickP (Post 14910525)
So according to the polls EITHER the Tories have raced to a massive lead (YouGov) OR the polls have closed to practically level (DeltaPoll).

You have to begin to wonder about how accurate they actually are.

Clearly at least one of them is completely inaccurate! Or they are asking slightly different questions.

Cambridge Eagle 09-09-2019 02:06 PM

Also on subject of polling, this is from Pippa Crerar (Mirror Journo):

A Number 10 mole tells me that the private polling actually shows the Tories would currently win ��287 seats ��(YouGov. Sample 50,000)


This is response to No 10 leaks suggesting the Tories think they'd get about 300 seats. They realise they will lose seats in London, Scotland and the South West and will need to pick up seats in Labour heartlands just to stand still.


Personally I could envisage anything from a Tory Landslide to a Labour Landslide. People just don't seem to know what they want.

smileysmith 09-09-2019 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westsussexeagle (Post 14910385)
You might not need to look much further than the EU Tax Avoidance legislation that is on the horizon. Many of the main players in Brexit, Rees Mogg, Aaron Banks, the Barclay Brothers etc. all put in an appearance in the Paradise Papers. Forget the Sovereignty bollocks, this is all about the rich looking after number one.

Where's Adler today?


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