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-   -   Gary Lineker Just Now On MoTD (https://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=248686)

Penshaw Eagle 03-10-2020 10:35 PM

For once a fair account on how we played today

Excowboy 03-10-2020 10:38 PM

I'm not sure whether to admire or pity Palace fans that turned on MOTD tonight.

What did they say about us?

chateauferret 03-10-2020 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spindle (Post 15433900)
Lovely. So it is James in Britain only and therefore "Ham-ez" is a Spanish speaking insensitive ignorant bastardisation.

You've forgotten about the United States which has a significant minority of Spanish speakers and in which James with the dzh- pronunciation is extremely common.

As far as I can see, James is taken by some Spanish-speakers in the USA and has found its way to Mexico, and in these cases is taken from US English but pronounced h-. That name is not as common in South America, but it does occur there; it seems to be rarer in Spain. So I think the source must be US English. For that matter, it is possible (espcially in the US) for an English-speaker with an ordinary US English Christian name to pronounce it as in US English but to have a surname like Rodriguez.

chateauferret 03-10-2020 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excowboy (Post 15439919)
I'm not sure whether to admire or pity Palace fans that turned on MOTD tonight.

What did they say about us?

I've already watched that toilet once, no way am I doing it again.

Billy Rhino 04-10-2020 08:16 AM

Just watching it now, Ian Wright's "why are you digging me out" comment to Lineker was funny. I dont hate Lineker like some do, but he can be a bit too sarky sometimes so agree with Wright.

Didnt watch the game yesterday so didnt realise how bad Sakho was. Guiata's efforts for the penalties were embarrassing.

OxtedBob 04-10-2020 08:18 AM

Steve Bruce on MOTD:
“We’ve played seven games, won five and drew the other one”

Sorry!

Spindle 04-10-2020 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chateauferret (Post 15439923)
You've forgotten about the United States which has a significant minority of Spanish speakers and in which James with the dzh- pronunciation is extremely common.

As far as I can see, James is taken by some Spanish-speakers in the USA and has found its way to Mexico, and in these cases is taken from US English but pronounced h-. That name is not as common in South America, but it does occur there; it seems to be rarer in Spain. So I think the source must be US English. For that matter, it is possible (espcially in the US) for an English-speaker with an ordinary US English Christian name to pronounce it as in US English but to have a surname like Rodriguez.

And that would be the correct and respectful way of pronunciation. Very well done on the assessment and proving me right that these commentators are just dickheads.

As for the USA, I don't think that uneducated peasant immigrants are going to be the ones to try to say an English J correctly, so they bastardise it with their ignorance. That doesn't mean we need to have our professional commentators pick up on that. And they need to do better with our Scandinavian cousins first in any case.

legaleagle2 04-10-2020 10:08 AM

Given his name is James David Rodríguez Rubio and his dad's name is Wilson James Rodriguez Bedoya,it would seem not impossible that a few generations ago a James from the British Isles (perhaps a James Wilson?) ended up in Colombia and JRs first name was handed down...Also,quite a few emigrated from the West Indies to Colombia.Then, down the generations pronounced it how the locals would pronounce such a name ie as per 'jamon'.

Celestial Empire 04-10-2020 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chateauferret (Post 15433832)
This is from Wikipedia concerning the etymology of the name as it refers to Christ:

"The English name Jesus is derived from the Latin Iesus, a transliteration of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iēsoûs).[53] The Greek form is a rendering of the Hebrew ישוע‎ (Yeshua), a variant of the earlier name יהושע‎ (Yehoshua), or in English, "Joshua",[54][55][56][57] meaning "Yah saves".[58][59] This was also the name of Moses' successor[60] and of a Jewish high priest in the Old Testament.[61]"

So the initial sound seemingly has always been a y-glide, not a vowel like "ee" as suggested by the Greek spelling, nor a "dzh" sound as suggested by the modern English spelling, which has clearly come about because the Latin "I" was frequently written and printed as a "J" and led to Anglicised pronunciation. Presumably the same is true of Portuguese and (for its own pronunciation) Spanish.

The language of the Isrealites at the time of Christ was Aramaic - from which both Arabic and Hebrew developed (they are both Semitic languages).
Aramaic was still spoken in a few southern Syrian villages until recently (don't know how they fared in the war). They also had religious buildings which (historically) were shared between the three religions.
I guess that Wiki piece was written by some American evangelical.

PeterH 04-10-2020 04:53 PM

James is Jaime pronounced Haime or I Me. Or even Santiago for some strange reason.

liberal clubber 04-10-2020 06:23 PM

Ian Wright didn’t like being corrected that the penalty takers style was unique
“Pogba does it”
“Stop digging me out”
I think weighty wanted to punch lineker. Now that would put the ratings up

Martin H 04-10-2020 06:28 PM

Slight digression but Evra follows up his Zaha foopah with the suggestion that the ManU players all need a slap! Expecting another embarrassing apology to follo. What next I wonder......

BERT'S HEAD 04-10-2020 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 15442057)
Slight digression but Evra follows up his Zaha foopah with the suggestion that the ManU players all need a slap! Expecting another embarrassing apology to follo. What next I wonder......

Evra said live on TV he wanted to end his contract with Sky.

Martin H 04-10-2020 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERT'S HEAD (Post 15442070)
Evra said live on TV he wanted to end his contract with Sky.

I thought I heard that but missed the context for why he said it and TBH he was difficult to understand. He made reference to things he can’t say on TV but did he actually mention Wilf.

What was he meaning to say?

BERT'S HEAD 04-10-2020 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 15442076)
I thought I heard that but missed the context for why he said it and TBH he was difficult to understand. He made reference to things he can’t say on TV but did he actually mention Wilf.

What was he meaning to say?

https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/stat...108729862?s=19

Another Oxted Eagle 04-10-2020 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERT'S HEAD (Post 15442082)

Wow , that’s great TV. Not my favourite ex wanker but hats off to him for speaking from the heart . Almost Wrighty-esque

Martin H 04-10-2020 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERT'S HEAD (Post 15442082)

Thanks. I thought he mentioned Sanchez but didn’t understand the reference. So nothing to do with Wilf at all. Just saying he can’t do this pundit thing and avoid slagging off ManU. Quite happy to spread scurrilous lies about former ManU players but wouldn’t want to make the ManU boys cry :) slight paraphrase but his point I think.

chateauferret 04-10-2020 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spindle (Post 15440322)
And that would be the correct and respectful way of pronunciation. Very well done on the assessment and proving me right that these commentators are just dickheads.

As for the USA, I don't think that uneducated peasant immigrants are going to be the ones to try to say an English J correctly, so they bastardise it with their ignorance. That doesn't mean we need to have our professional commentators pick up on that. And they need to do better with our Scandinavian cousins first in any case.

When words are loaned from one language into another the pronunciation changes to reflect the borrowing language's phonology. If the borrowing language doesn't have a sound like one in the loaned word it will be changed. Sometimes the spelling will change as well. We don't pronounce nasal vowels in French words as the French do when they're imported into English, for example. This is a perfectly common phenomenon in all languages, including ours, and is not the result of "ignorance". For that matter, you might as well say that our pronunciation of "James" with a dzh- instead of a y- sound at the beginning was a result of our ignorance of Hebrew, Greek or Latin. It's exactly the same process.

But then surely the authority on how someone's name is pronounced is the person whose name it is. As far as I can tell that is certainly "h-". But then the commentators to whom you refer, having strained every sinew to show everyone that they can get that bit right, proceed to pronounce his surname quite wrongly.

Spindle 05-10-2020 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legaleagle2 (Post 15440650)
Given his name is James David Rodríguez Rubio and his dad's name is Wilson James Rodriguez Bedoya,it would seem not impossible that a few generations ago a James from the British Isles (perhaps a James Wilson?) ended up in Colombia and JRs first name was handed down...Also,quite a few emigrated from the West Indies to Colombia.Then, down the generations pronounced it how the locals would pronounce such a name ie as per 'jamon'.

I'm looking forward to this one

Quote:

Arsenal to sign Nikolaj Moller as Swedish striker undergoes medical
A swede with a russo-germanic name. How will they cope? :D

Spindle 05-10-2020 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERT'S HEAD (Post 15442082)

Lol terrific stuff


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