Originally Posted by chateauferret (Post 15442290)

When words are loaned from one language into another the pronunciation changes to reflect the borrowing language's phonology. If the borrowing language doesn't have a sound like one in the loaned word it will be changed. Sometimes the spelling will change as well. We don't pronounce nasal vowels in French words as the French do when they're imported into English, for example. This is a perfectly common phenomenon in all languages, including ours, and is not the result of "ignorance". For that matter, you might as well say that our pronunciation of "James" with a dzh- instead of a y- sound at the beginning was a result of our ignorance of Hebrew, Greek or Latin. It's exactly the same process.

But then surely the authority on how someone's name is pronounced is the person whose name it is. As far as I can tell that is certainly "h-". But then the commentators to whom you refer, having strained every sinew to show everyone that they can get that bit right, proceed to pronounce his surname quite wrongly.

Originally Posted by Spindle (Post 15444389)

And this is the point, it's ok to say it how it sounds to us. The stupid effort they make, it's disingenuous, they only want to appear 'knowledgeable'.

Originally Posted by west country boy (Post 15472796)

The crisp-peddling fraud appears to be channelling Reg Holdsworth tonight.

Originally Posted by Old Joe Paxton (Post 15472860)

Fraud, why so?

Originally Posted by chateauferret (Post 15444461)

Well, the ones that make a noise that sounds like the Scotch express coming out of a tunnel, as Wodehouse would put it, just make themselves look even more stupid than they already do; but of course by the time they get round to talking about actual players, that ship has well and truly sailed.

In general we don't render foreign proper nouns using sounds that aren't in our own language's phonology, and it sounds affected if we do; but for English there are a couple of exceptions: the sounds in Murdoch, Llewelyn; and then Bach, Rakhmaninov, but not for example the very peculiar consonant in the very common Czech surname Dvořák. Those are special cases because similar sounds occur in Welsh and Gaelic.

Originally Posted by Maidstoned Eagle (Post 15472928)

Oh do put a sock in it, you pretentious spunk sock..

Originally Posted by Aki Aki Aki (Post 15472944)

He did look an absolute tool with his fake transparent glasses. Irritating £2M a year fool.

Originally Posted by liberal clubber (Post 15473050)

He scoffed at wilfs crazy flick on pass, only for the Man City chap to say “no, it was intended”

Originally Posted by Latvian (Post 15473064)

Can't understand why the 0-0 was on before us. No goals and they are both beneath us in the table.

Originally Posted by Polak (Post 15473035)

Wants to look like Klopp

Originally Posted by Nostrils (Post 15473083)

They both want to look like Rose West.

Originally Posted by disco mixx kidd (Post 15473054)

What did they say about palace ffs