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-   -   Jairo Riedewald (https://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=271278)

November85 29-07-2018 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 14357493)
Sorry fellas, Iím just not seeing it. As for the weight gain, itís evident for everyone to see..

I just assumed he's trying to bulk up to cope with the premier league.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 29-07-2018 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CP-RJW (Post 14357937)
I was more addressing the Ďeven now he is yet to show he is good enough as a central midfielder in the PL.í In Hodgsonís system, only two central midfielders are needed. The injury crisis didnít affect Luka, or Macca (although I know he started wide at times), and only injured Cabaye for a few games. So itís not really a surprise that Jairo didnít get much game time.

We cant say from three PL starts that he is good enough playing there at this level, can we? Needs to do it a lot more often to say that.

Garfy 29-07-2018 05:03 PM

Only watched the first half yesterday when he was playing and thought his passing was good. Listened to the after match interview with Wilf and he mentioned how Jimmy Mac was still adding to his game yet some on here have given up on Jairo at 22 years of age because the whole team started last season poorly.

Nostrils 29-07-2018 05:07 PM

He's looked decent in all of our pre-season games and considering his age, he's a very good prospect. At this stage I wouldn't want him starting every game, but the odd one here and there, cups and to help finish games off he'll gain more experience and confidence. I think he'll play a lot more often this season though.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 29-07-2018 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostrils (Post 14357975)
He's looked decent in all of our pre-season games and considering his age, he's a very good prospect. At this stage I wouldn't want him starting every game, but the odd one here and there, cups and to help finish games off he'll gain more experience and confidence. I think he'll play a lot more often this season though.

I was certainly encouraged by what I say from him yesterday but obviously we have to take the standard of opposition into account.

CP-RJW 29-07-2018 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14357958)
We cant say from three PL starts that he is good enough playing there at this level, can we? Needs to do it a lot more often to say that.

He’s shown he’s good enough so far. The question is if he can do it consistently, and that’s what he hadn’t had the chance to prove.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 29-07-2018 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CP-RJW (Post 14358029)
Heís shown heís good enough so far. The question is if he can do it consistently, and thatís what he hadnít had the chance to prove.

Yep, I accept that but I guess you also have wonder why Roy was so reluctant to use him even as a sub in games last season. In fact he wasn't even making the bench towards the season's end.

bigend1 29-07-2018 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hedgehog (Post 14357717)
Basing your opinion of a player on what a few teenagers say on Twitter is not going to end well.

West Ham also told us we had overpaid for Tomkins etc etc etc...

Agreed. I didnít base my opinion on that. Youíve quoted one sentence of my post

bigend1 29-07-2018 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 14357754)
So exactly how many games have you seen him play at CB then? One?

Iím not slagging him off, Iíve said heís been improving and has potential. Iím increasingly positive about him but think it would be a mistake to rely on him being good enough this season.

Youíve questioned me in quite an aggressive way... almost suggests you know better. What did he play? One? Canít remember but he was awful. Obviously weak in the air to the point that wasnít a bad game, he just is in this league. Ajax fans donít rate him. 2 managers have selected a very very limited kelly ahead of him. Weíve seen his performances improve in Cm.... exactly why do you think the evidence suggests anything other than he isnít up to it at cb?

My point wasnít slagging off ridewald quite the opposite. It was wondering why anyone sucks fhe cock off frank for a signing that might turn out to be ok after flopping. The only people that usually find a reason to praise frank after that on here are those that look for anything to abuse parish

Martin H 29-07-2018 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigend1 (Post 14358204)
Iím not slagging him off, Iíve said heís been improving and has potential. Iím increasingly positive about him but think it would be a mistake to rely on him being good enough this season.

Youíve questioned me in quite an aggressive way... almost suggests you know better. What did he play? One? Canít remember but he was awful. Obviously weak in the air to the point that wasnít a bad game, he just is in this league. Ajax fans donít rate him. 2 managers have selected a very very limited kelly ahead of him. Weíve seen his performances improve in Cm.... exactly why do you think the evidence suggests anything other than he isnít up to it at cb?

My point wasnít slagging off ridewald quite the opposite. It was wondering why anyone sucks fhe cock off frank for a signing that might turn out to be ok after flopping. The only people that usually find a reason to praise frank after that on here are those that look for anything to abuse parish

LOL - how on earth is this aggressive?

Quote:

ĎSo exactly how many games have you seen him play at CB then? One?í
TBH I donít really understand how saying he is awful isnít slagging him off either but canít be a***d.

red&blue_moomin 29-07-2018 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14358035)
Yep, I accept that but I guess you also have wonder why Roy was so reluctant to use him even as a sub in games last season. In fact he wasn't even making the bench towards the season's end.

I'm sorry but that's patently bullshit!

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jair.../0?saison=2017
He was not in the match day squad for three matches out of the last 24 we played. Yeahhhhhh he couldn't make the bench...........he missed two of the last 10 matches.......

Because Luka, Yohan and Jimmy were all fit most of the time FFS it's not a slight on the kid if three senior international players get picked ahead of him :wallbash: any one with half a brain would do that. He was 21 just moved to a foreign country with not much English. You listen to him now and he's pretty much fluent. Want do you want experienced players with 100s of appearances or young prospects, it's something different every ten minutes at the moment. The club can not ******* win with some of you lot.


He made four 90 minute starts, 8 odd appearances as sub all in the second half of the season and it was often to shore things up in the last 10/15 minutes exactly what you'd do with one of your second choice midfielders when one of the first 11 ones goes off. Has it occured to you that Roy likes to slowly integrate young players not chuck them in and wait for them so sink. His hand was forced with AWB and as soon as Ward was fit he dropped Aaron (inexplicably, but it tells you Roy prizes experience in defensive positions) and the only way he got back in was Ward getting injured again.

He'll play more and more as he gets older and more settled.

Excowboy 29-07-2018 09:43 PM

I like that he's got plenty of preseason minutes and that it's settled he's a DM for us. Means he can work on his craft and develop around this strengths and weaknesses.

I don't want to get drawn into this whole baggy shirt debate but it does seem he's a bit more bulky and less mobile than he could be, which removes the possibility of him playing wide and getting game time that way. it also means he's less of a candidate to come off the bench and chase the opposition down for 20 mins like Macca does.

Something tells me next year will be the breakthrough season for Jairo if he stays with us - it'll take a while for him to get enough game time to properly development when he's not first choice, but I think there's a solid player in there.

red&blue_moomin 29-07-2018 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excowboy (Post 14358352)
I like that he's got plenty of preseason minutes and that it's settled he's a DM for us. Means he can work on his craft and develop around this strengths and weaknesses.

I don't want to get drawn into this whole baggy shirt debate but it does seem he's a bit more bulky and less mobile than he could be, which removes the possibility of him playing wide and getting game time that way. it also means he's less of a candidate to come off the bench and chase the opposition down for 20 mins like Macca does.

Something tells me next year will be the breakthrough season for Jairo if he stays with us - it'll take a while for him to get enough game time to properly development when he's not first choice, but I think there's a solid player in there.

Right then so where's this bulk then (pic from Sweden training camp)

https://www.cpfc.co.uk/siteassets/im...1-33.jpg/Large

Unless he's managed to double his body weight in two weeks?


PS sorry about this but this he's fat, bulky etc rubbish has got to stop. You can think he's not very good and a waste of money (don't agree at all long term or even in the medium term) but come on enough of the #fakenews please.

Riley 29-07-2018 10:37 PM

#cakenews

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 29-07-2018 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red&blue_moomin (Post 14358325)
I'm sorry but that's patently bullshit!

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jair.../0?saison=2017
He was not in the match day squad for three matches out of the last 24 we played. Yeahhhhhh he couldn't make the bench...........he missed two of the last 10 matches.......

Because Luka, Yohan and Jimmy were all fit most of the time FFS it's not a slight on the kid if three senior international players get picked ahead of him :wallbash: any one with half a brain would do that. He was 21 just moved to a foreign country with not much English. You listen to him now and he's pretty much fluent. Want do you want experienced players with 100s of appearances or young prospects, it's something different every ten minutes at the moment. The club can not ******* win with some of you lot.


He made four 90 minute starts, 8 odd appearances as sub all in the second half of the season and it was often to shore things up in the last 10/15 minutes exactly what you'd do with one of your second choice midfielders when one of the first 11 ones goes off. Has it occured to you that Roy likes to slowly integrate young players not chuck them in and wait for them so sink. His hand was forced with AWB and as soon as Ward was fit he dropped Aaron (inexplicably, but it tells you Roy prizes experience in defensive positions) and the only way he got back in was Ward getting injured again.

He'll play more and more as he gets older and more settled.

Once Loftus-Cheek and others returned from injury, he wasn't making the bench. That patently isn't bullshit. And I wasn't talking about the last 24 games of the season, I said "towards the end of season"... Which was the last few games. I didn't say it was for lots of games or a specific number of games or anything like that... just that he didn't make the bench towards the end of the season. Which is factually correct.

You also say it was because Jimmy, Schlupp etc. were fit, and yes, that's true but also ignore that fact Lee was also selected on the bench ahead of him. A player we had no intention of keeping was ahead of him despite the fact there were several other players of his type in the squad already (so he wasn't selected over Jairo just because there weren't enough attacking/ wide players in the match day squads).

And the club can't win?!! What you on about? You're talking nonsense. All I said was that it was noticeable that he wasn't making the bench when we had everyone fit. How does that mean the club can't win?!! I'm not criticising anyone with that! Just saying it was noticeable.

Anyway, seriously, what's with the aggression of calling other people's posts bullshit so quickly?!! What's with the insults?!! I'm not going to say you haven't got half a brain in return because it's just childish but I can and did see he wasn't making the bench when all our players were fit.. which was true. So why get personal and throw around such comments? Why not just say you disagree with me or that it should be considered in the context of more experienced players returning?! Why not just be polite to fellow fans and discuss things?!

That is the kind of reaction that just makes this place unpleasant at times. People just post an opinion on something, or in this case just make an observation about it and get fired at with an aggressive, insulting response. You aren't the only one at all but it just makes the BBS all the worse for it.

red&blue_moomin 30-07-2018 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14358423)
Once Loftus-Cheek and others returned from injury, he wasn't making the bench. That patently isn't bullshit. And I wasn't talking about the last 24 games of the season, I said "towards the end of season"... Which was the last few games.

You then say Jimmy, Schlupp etc. were fit, yes, but ignore that fact Lee was also selected on the bench ahead of him. A player we had no intention of keeping was ahead of him despite the fact there were several other players of his type in the squad already (so he wasn't selected over Jairo just because there weren't enough attacking/ wide players in the match day squads).

And the club can't win?!! What you on about? You're talking nonsense. All I said was that it was noticeable that he wasn't making the bench when we had everyone fit. How does that mean the club can't win?!! I'm not criticising anyone with that! Just saying it was noticeable.

Anyway, seriously, what's with the aggression of calling other people's posts bullshit so quickly?!! What's with the insults?!! I'm not going to say you haven't got half a brain in return because it's just childish but I can and did see he wasn't making the bench when all our players were fit.. which was true. So why get personal and throw around such comments? Why not just say you disagree with me or that it should be considered in the context of more experienced players returning?! Why not just be polite to fellow fans and discuss things?!

That is the kind of reaction that just makes this place unpleasant at times. People just post an opinion on something, or in this case just make an observation about it and get fired at with an aggressive response. You aren't the only one at all but it just makes the BBS all the worse for it.


I know you think he's shite and have written him off based on one crap performance in which the whole team played like dog shite. That's my opinion.


But you said he wasn't making the bench at the end of the season, you're using opinion as fact. He was not in the match day squad for three matches of the last 24 games that we played. That's from before December to the end of the season, if you want to be really picky he missed two of the last 8 matches of the season............If you'd said at the start of the season he could barely get on the bench or in the middle of the season you'd have been factually correct. Like this stupid thing about him being fat and unfit. I mean there's pictures of him in training kit looking completely normal footballer sized and yet images of him in a shirt thats clearly massive for him and he's being accused of being fat, unfit unprofessional etc etc.

I even provided you with the actual evidence to look at. Ok I could have said you're wrong but the statement you made was completely and utterly untrue. RLC returned for the last 8 matches of the season. CYL was on the bench for the last 8 matches so Jairo was sat next to him for six of them (guess what CYL missed three matches of the last 24 also.......), Jairo was nearly always involved in our match day squads for longer than the second half of the season in the same way that CYL was.

I'm getting completely fed up with the slagging of young prospects that the club have signed or are now looking at bringing through from the academy after all the bitching on here about wasting £20M+ on players. So when the club do go and do just that what happens, so far Kai Kai, Soroth, Jach, Jairo and Jonny have all been written off as complete wastes of time and money.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 30-07-2018 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red&blue_moomin (Post 14358434)
I know you think he's shite and have written him off based on one crap performance in which the whole team played like dog shite. That's my opinion . But you said he wasn't making the bench at the end of the season, you're using opinion as fact. He was not in the match day squad for three matches of the last 24 games that we played. That's from before December to the end of the season, if you want to be really picky he missed two of the last 8 matches of the season............If you'd said at the start of the season he could barely get on the bench or in the middle of the season you'd have been factually correct.

I even provided you with the actual evidence to look at. Ok I could have said you're wrong but the statement was completely and utterly untrue.

Haha... It's not completely and utterly unture. I didn't say it was for any number of games, just that towards the end of the season when everyone was fit, he wasn't selected on the bench which is a fact. You would be right to point out it was only for a few games, but that doesn't change the fact what I typed was also correct.

I don't think I've ever said he is shite! When and where have I written him off? I have said recently on this thread and elsewhere that he has had a decent pre-season (although I am also remembering those weren't against Premier League standard opponents). He could still come good for us and I hope he does. And for the record, my doubts about him are based on more than one performance. Am I not allowed to reasonably express my doubts about a player's ability? That isn't the same as "slagging off" a young player. Where have I ever done that? It's really not my style to.

But you are right you could have responded your opinion without the insults.

red&blue_moomin 30-07-2018 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14358436)
Haha... It's not completely and utterly unture. I didn't say it was for any number of games, just that towards the end of the season when everyone was fit, he wasn't selected on the bench which is a fact. You would be right to point out it was only for a few games, but that doesn't change the fact what I typed was also correct.

I don't think I've ever said he is shite! When and where have I written him off? I have said recently on this thread and elsewhere that he has had a decent pre-season (although I am also remembering those weren't against Premier League standard opponents). He could still come good for us and I hope he does. And for the record, my doubts about him are based on more than one performance. Am I not allowed to reasonably express my doubts about a player's ability? That isn't the same as "slagging off" a young player. Where have I ever done that? It's really not my style to.

But you are right you could have responded your opinion without the insults.

You've tried to intimate that Roy wasn't picking him for the match day squads. I've just shown you the evidence that he only missed 16% of our match days in the second half of the season, 20% of the run in to the end of the season (commonly taken to be the last 10) and was sat next to the player on the bench that apparently replaced him for eight of those 10 matches, there's not many players who play all 39 matches in a season.

KingCoppell 30-07-2018 01:17 AM

He was our best player against city at home.

Palace43 30-07-2018 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14357761)
As you have gone for that patronising tone, I will too.

You do realise he was signed last season? And at that point central midfield was NOT the position we needed someone for? And that he was actually signed as a left sided centre back in a back 3? Despite a huge injury crisis he still only started 4 games last season and was only used as a sub on 8 ocassions?

So, yes, there is certainly a valid argument we could have spent it better as we went forward with only 2 goal keepers and started the season with only one recognised striker. Moreover, he still, even now has yet to show he is good enough as a central midfielder in the PL. I agree that he looked decent yesterday but we were playing a poor Championship side.

Sorry, I didnít mean to aggravate! Merely being a pedant, and was surprised by the statement.

My point still stands though, while he may have been bought as a centre back, I think none of us see him anywhere near that position now, and in actual fact itís turned out to be money well spent. Heís young, got great attributes which can only be improved on and has resale value.

Thereís no point looking at Frank de Boers tenure as an indicator to his value to us as a team right now. Around 10 million or whatever it was last season has worked out really well for us going into this season to be honest.

Heís done well whenever heís came on and hasnít looked out of place. Heíll get more chances this season and I think heíll come good.

Again, sorry for Ďpatronisingí, wasnít meant like that... tones are hard to translate over text.


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