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-   -   Jairo Riedewald (https://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=271278)

MFBias 03-07-2018 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva (Post 14318767)
Thankfully, I recently heard Hodgson say in interview that he thought that most stats were a load of pony.

All hail the omniscient Hodgson.

jono cp 16-07-2018 09:06 PM

Is it me or does he look a bit chubby? Only seen photos haven’t watched any highlights or anything but he’s looking big

Stavros 69 16-07-2018 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jono cp (Post 14338646)
Is it me or does he look a bit chubby? Only seen photos havenít watched any highlights or anything but heís looking big

Heís 21 and built like a weapon.
Just wears a baggy shirt.

Martin H 16-07-2018 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jono cp (Post 14338646)
Is it me or does he look a bit chubby? Only seen photos havenít watched any highlights or anything but heís looking big

No. Brighty mentioned it again on commentary today. Jairo prefers a baggy shirt rather than the 'player fit' ones and so it makes him look like he is carrying weight but he isn't at all. The problem is that it gets said once and sticks.

Gregz41 16-07-2018 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jono cp (Post 14338646)
Is it me or does he look a bit chubby? Only seen photos havenít watched any highlights or anything but heís looking big

Mark Bright touched on this in todayís co commentary. He said the baggy shirt makes him look a little overweight when the rest of the players are wearing player fit shirts, but he went on to say he is a true athlete.

Hedgehog 16-07-2018 09:56 PM

I think his blond hair makes him look bald during the game.

jono cp 16-07-2018 10:03 PM

Ok makes sense thanks boys

Timbo 16-07-2018 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregz41 (Post 14338717)
Mark Bright touched on this in today’s co commentary. He said the baggy shirt makes him look a little overweight when the rest of the players are wearing player fit shirts, but he went on to say he is a true athlete.

Hmmm don't want too much muscle though, leads to loss of agility and flexibility whilst adding a propensity to injury doesn't it?

Gregz41 16-07-2018 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 14338746)
Hmmm don't want too much muscle though, leads to loss of agility and flexibility whilst adding a propensity to injury doesn't it?

I think it was to be taken more in a "there's nothing to worry about from him being overweight" kind of way.

Oli28 16-07-2018 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 14338691)
No. Brighty mentioned it again on commentary today. Jairo prefers a baggy shirt rather than the 'player fit' ones and so it makes him look like he is carrying weight but he isn't at all. The problem is that it gets said once and sticks.

Were you there today? He looked ridiculously out of shape.

Martin H 16-07-2018 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oli28 (Post 14338780)
Were you there today? He looked ridiculously out of shape.

No, I wish. Just watching on stream. I thought he had a good game today sitting in the middle and keeping it moving. He was the better of the 2 in the middle. So he didn't look out of shape to me in terms of his play. His shirt makes him look big for sure. Its not like it's the Sunday League is it? Where they turn up and get a game. They are monitored and measured and there is no way he could have kept going that long if he wasn't fit by most people's standards.

MFBias 17-07-2018 05:14 AM

He played the full 90, and was constantly moving and looking for the ball while shielding the back four. Didnt look unfit to me, unless you want him diving into challenges which all defensive players are taught not to do.

Vultur 17-07-2018 05:17 AM

I was there. I thought he was our best player. On that evidence I'm happy for him to replace Cabaye if we don't buy someone else which looks increasingly unlikely.

917L 17-07-2018 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vultur (Post 14338809)
I was there. I thought he was our best player. On that evidence I'm happy for him to replace Cabaye if we don't buy someone else which looks increasingly unlikely.

Only from the stream, but I thought Andros was clearly our best player, followed by AWB

mcmean 17-07-2018 07:08 AM

This is the same nonsense as the Sako Ďfatí thing all over again, when in fact he was absolutely ripped

Brummie Allan 17-07-2018 07:21 AM

I take on board what has been said but he does look like a 50 year old bald man with the blond hair and shirt

https://www.cpfc.co.uk/siteassets/im...s/00.jpg/Large

Garfy 17-07-2018 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcmean (Post 14338851)
This is the same nonsense as the Sako Ďfatí thing all over again, when in fact he was absolutely ripped

Most on here would be morbidly obese compared to our players!

LuieJack 17-07-2018 07:51 AM

Why such an over reaction to Riedewald? it is not a question of overweight allover but he just so happens he has a "barrel chest" which makes him look top heavy.
But hey he has returned from his summer break and the whole idea of the next few weeks is to get them back in shape, afterall he wont be the First footballer to return from holiday slightly out of shape.
Lets stop giving our players stick and being so critical before they have even performed, especially this season more than ever if as is being bandied around that any new additions will be at a premium.

Neillo's Son 17-07-2018 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garfy (Post 14338889)
Most on here are morbidly obese !

EFA

Palacebear 17-07-2018 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brumie Allan (Post 14338864)
I take on board what has been said but he does look like a 50 year old bald man with the blond hair and shirt



https://www.cpfc.co.uk/siteassets/im...s/00.jpg/Large


He does look big compared to the others in that picture.

in-exile 17-07-2018 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuieJack (Post 14338892)
Why such an over reaction to Riedewald? it is not a question of overweight allover but he just so happens he has a "barrel chest" which makes him look top heavy.
But hey he has returned from his summer break and the whole idea of the next few weeks is to get them back in shape, afterall he wont be the First footballer to return from holiday slightly out of shape.
Lets stop giving our players stick and being so critical before they have even performed, especially this season more than ever if as is being bandied around that any new additions will be at a premium.

If you were at the game? To see him first hand you would have been shocked by his transformation ... He looks fat and was slow on the ball and on closing down others, I watched him off the ball a bit and he's unrecognizable from the player of last season.
No overreaction he needs to lose 10kg's before being of any use in the Premier League, it's not a shirt fit problem he's been on the pies.

in-exile 17-07-2018 08:36 AM

I'm a big fan of his Man City performance last year and was hoping he could do a job in Midfield with our obvious hole to be filled....as said by others he looks 50 in shape speed and running style.

sylvan eagle 17-07-2018 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brumie Allan (Post 14338864)
I take on board what has been said but he does look like a 50 year old bald man with the blond hair and shirt



https://www.cpfc.co.uk/siteassets/im...s/00.jpg/Large


Heís definitely not got a players fit shirt on, that fits him like a tent

in-exile 17-07-2018 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stavros 69 (Post 14338661)
He’s 21 and built like a weapon.
Just wears a baggy shirt.

Missed aleast four or five challenges due to speed that he did have last year .... He is clearly overestimating his own speed at the moment just like an older Sunday League player who no longer has his pace.
I'm sure the club with have him on salad for a couple of weeks.

Max_Power 17-07-2018 08:47 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Look at Wayne Routledge the fat bastard, what a liberty that he turned up and played quality football in the Premier League in this condition!

exiledeagle 17-07-2018 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vultur (Post 14338809)
I was there. I thought he was our best player. On that evidence I'm happy for him to replace Cabaye if we don't buy someone else which looks increasingly unlikely.

I was quite impressed . He looked comfortable on the ball and unlike Cabaye didn't lunge into tackles and stayed on feet - early days though ( not a dig at Cabaye as he had other attributes ) . Only concerns he did seem to push forward a lot , leaving no one in the holding position ( as Bright said ) . Also looked a bit leggy running back to position . Quite encouraging but still feel we need 2 more players in midfield . I hope Bright is right about the shirt because he does look huge .

Flat Noodle 17-07-2018 09:02 AM

Didn’t see him sprint once the entire match

in-exile 17-07-2018 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flat Noodle (Post 14338992)
Didnít see him sprint once the entire match

Yep.

in-exile 17-07-2018 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_Power (Post 14338972)
Look at Wayne Routledge the fat bastard, what a liberty that he turned up and played quality football in the Premier League in this condition!

Routledge Looking obviously fit underneath that shirt ... Nobody was fooled yesterday.

MFBias 17-07-2018 09:07 AM

He is one of those players who will divide opinion I reckon, those who like seeing players use position and small details will like him, I thought he was excellent yesterday and have thought he has been classy most times Ive seen him apart from his debut.

in-exile 17-07-2018 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exiledeagle (Post 14338989)
I was quite impressed . He looked comfortable on the ball and unlike Cabaye didn't lunge into tackles and stayed on feet - early days though ( not a dig at Cabaye as he had other attributes ) .

He missed at least two possibly free tackles sliding in off his feet due to being slow.

mushroom 17-07-2018 09:19 AM

Needs to be more dynamic. If he could get as fit as possible... heíll be a player. He may have ability, but the prem is a hard league. Players like KantŤ/Henderson/Ramsey/ will just bypass him. Cabaye was nimble...Jairo ainít

Billyd 17-07-2018 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vultur (Post 14338809)
I was there. I thought he was our best player. On that evidence I'm happy for him to replace Cabaye if we don't buy someone else which looks increasingly unlikely.

Jesus Christ. It was a friendly vs a Danish 2nd tier side. He has shown nothing to show he can replace Cabaye at EPL level.

Same has been said during other pre seasons about Jordon Mutch, Steven Dobbie etc....

Kirby 17-07-2018 09:25 AM

I have no idea whether he's fit or not (that picture doesn't do him any favours), but I actually thought he played quite well yesterday.

Clearly a completely different proposition to a PL match, but he looked confident on the ball and dictated play in the middle of the park.

I don't think he should be anywhere near the starting line-up just yet, but I certainly think there's a place for him in the squad as back-up for Luka/Jimmy. It's easy to forget he's only 21.

Martin H 17-07-2018 09:26 AM

It's funny how we see the same thing differently. I genuinely thought Jairo was one of our better players last night and really settled into that midfield role tidying things up and moving it across and up the pitch. He covered a lot of ground for someone that is supposedly so unfit. I thought Townsend probably looked the sharpest of our players but Jairo was probably just behind him for me. PVA up there for forward play but not so much defensively. Funnily enough I haven't been quite as impressed with AWB in these early games as I had expected him to shine and kick on in pre-season but his tackling has been good but he hasn't been great in possession. It's early days and I only mention it in context of differing opinions. If the season started tomorrow I think Ward would start.

If you look at the photos Jairo is very broad and he is wearing a baggy shirt for comfort and everyone else is wearing the 'player fit' As someone said it looks like he may be barrel chested too. Obviously enough the shirt makes him look different.

I don't get this preoccupation with player weight and most of it is b*****. If the Manager is picking them they must be fit and the docs and fitness coaches happy. Different players have different body shapes. He is never going to look like a weedy Dele Alli or Lingard. Grierson and Bright have both now mentioned it specifically saying that it's just the shirt and he isn't carrying weight. Maybe the have been hacked by the Ruskies.

jaxon 17-07-2018 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billyd (Post 14339020)
Jesus Christ. It was a friendly vs a Danish 2nd tier side. He has shown nothing to show he can replace Cabaye at EPL level.

Same has been said during other pre seasons about Jordon Mutch, Steven Dobbie etc....

Surely his performance against Man City last season showed he at least has the potential to step up to the required level?

red&blue_moomin 17-07-2018 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by in-exile (Post 14339000)
He missed at least two possibly free tackles sliding in off his feet due to being slow.

https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/2018/jul...ain-in-sweden/

Look at pictures 7 and 26. He's wearing the normal training top and looks completely fit.

FFS turns out Mark Bright club legend was telling the truth. Or are you going to tell me he's put 6 stone on in a week.

Coating one of our players after two preseason matches. Especially one where he did well.

The stream had a good vantage point of where Jairo was playing and 8 times out of 10 he shut down Halmstead's attempt at a counter high up the pitch cleaning up several attempts by them at breaking. He also passed the ball pretty well though he likes to slow it down and pick a pass which might not work so well in the prem. Bearing in mind the opposition he did well.

headliner 17-07-2018 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 14339026)
It's funny how we see the same thing differently. I genuinely thought Jairo was one of our better players last night and really settled into that midfield role tidying things up and moving it across and up the pitch. He covered a lot of ground for someone that is supposedly so unfit. I thought Townsend probably looked the sharpest of our players but Jairo was probably just behind him for me. PVA up there for forward play but not so much defensively. Funnily enough I haven't been quite as impressed with AWB in these early games as I had expected him to shine and kick on in pre-season but his tackling has been good but he hasn't been great in possession. It's early days and I only mention it in context of differing opinions. If the season started tomorrow I think Ward would start.

If you look at the photos Jairo is very broad and he is wearing a baggy shirt for comfort and everyone else is wearing the 'player fit' As someone said it looks like he may be barrel chested too. Obviously enough the shirt makes him look different.

I don't get this preoccupation with player weight and most of it is b*****. If the Manager is picking them they must be fit and the docs and fitness coaches happy. Different players have different body shapes. He is never going to look like a weedy Dele Alli or Lingard. Grierson and Bright have both now mentioned it specifically saying that it's just the shirt and he isn't carrying weight. Maybe the have been hacked by the Ruskies.



Agreed - I just concentrated on his performance against the opposition in front of him - taking this into account, I thought he was positionally excellent, and gave a very assured all round (no pun intended!) performance. He didn't need to sprint anywhere, he just cruised around the pitch, doing all the right things, linking well Jimmy Mac and the rest of the team, defensively and when attacking. I think we might have one hell of a player there, but time will tell. Just 21!!!!!

El Aguila 17-07-2018 09:45 AM

He's a footballer.
Often when players come from abroad, it takes a year to adjust to the league. And Roy definitely wants to give him a chance, so let's see what he can give us this season.

Tomo 17-07-2018 09:52 AM

We clearly, need another midfielder, but with Luka adding the steel, if he can just get the positioning part of his game correct when defending then he could become very good. No doubting his ability on the ball and looks like he has a decent player in him.
He wasn't helped at all last year with the way he was bought in and then FdB left so soon.

917L 17-07-2018 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Aguila (Post 14339055)
He's a footballer.
Often when players come from abroad, it takes a year to adjust to the league. And Roy definitely wants to give him a chance, so let's see what he can give us this season.

At present Roy has no choice but to give him a chance

glaziers fan 17-07-2018 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headliner (Post 14339048)
Agreed - I just concentrated on his performance against the opposition in front of him - taking this into account, I thought he was positionally excellent, and gave a very assured all round (no pun intended!) performance. He didn't need to sprint anywhere, he just cruised around the pitch, doing all the right things, linking well Jimmy Mac and the rest of the team, defensively and when attacking. I think we might have one hell of a player there, but time will tell. Just 21!!!!!

Still not sure about him, but I like that he's a left footed centre mid, he's a good size (!) and can definitely pass a football. Key for me going forward will be his mobility and reading of the game. Not bad for 21 though. In terms of protecting the back 4 I think he's a better partner for Luka than anyone we've currently got if there's pace around him to cover, and is sitting in allowing everyone else to bomb forward. It's a different ball game if we've got Ward at right back and we want to press higher up the pitch. In that case Jimmy Mac with his bigger engine and increased mobility would be preferable. Hope Jairo gets some game time this season, but also hope it's not too much game time. A bit early for him to be a starter. Needs another season under his belt.

glaziers fan 17-07-2018 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 917L (Post 14339064)
At present Roy has no choice but to give him a chance

No. Still behind Jimmy Mac imho. If we don't sign anyone else (even though we will) midfield will line up like this for Fulham:

Schlupp/CW-------Milivojevic------McArthur---------Townsend

eagle-leg 17-07-2018 10:15 AM

When i watched the stream the other day, I thought they'd given Danny the kit man a run out.

I like Jairo though and feels he needs to be given a chance this year.

AJ 17-07-2018 10:22 AM

Neil Ruddock was a big lad too and played pretty well for us....for a while :)

Martin H 17-07-2018 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glaziers fan (Post 14339081)
No. Still behind Jimmy Mac imho. If we don't sign anyone else (even though we will) midfield will line up like this for Fulham:

Schlupp/CW-------Milivojevic------McArthur---------Townsend

I really like Macca but I really don't think his best position is as one of a pair of DMs or deep CMs. He is fine on either side in a 3 but not in the middle for me. His tackling and the number of fouls he gives away just doesn't work there and TBH we lose his strength which is stepping forward to join the attack. So if the plan was to replace Cabaye with Macca I am going to be nervous. Jairo is better suited to that if Roy thinks he is ready. He should have enough time to decide because it doesn't look like we are buying anyone anytime soon.

glaziers fan 17-07-2018 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 14339104)
I really like Macca but I really don't think his best position is as one of a pair of DMs or deep CMs. He is fine on either side in a 3 but not in the middle for me. His tackling and the number of fouls he gives away just doesn't work there and TBH we lose his strength which is stepping forward to join the attack. So if the plan was to replace Cabaye with Macca I am going to be nervous. Jairo is better suited to that if Roy thinks he is ready. He should have enough time to decide because it doesn't look like we are buying anyone anytime soon.

I agree with your assessment (see my post above the one you quoted). To play in a pair of holding mids alongside Luka I'd go for Jairo. But I don't think RH will see it that way, especially with Jimmy's experience.

wedgetail 17-07-2018 10:30 AM

that loose fit shirt doesn't look too loose fitting to me.

Martin H 17-07-2018 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glaziers fan (Post 14339110)
I agree with your assessment (see my post above the one you quoted). To play in a pair of holding mids alongside Luka I'd go for Jairo. But I don't think RH will see it that way, especially with Jimmy's experience.

I think Jimmy Mac is still in the team somewhere but not if we are looking for him to play deep.

red&blue_moomin 17-07-2018 10:52 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wedgetail (Post 14339113)
that loose fit shirt doesn't look too loose fitting to me.

Since you've all turned into Donald Trump #fakenews

https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/2018/jul...ain-in-sweden/

Picture 26 taken from the training camp images in Sweden




It's clearly just a fans fit shirt that he's wearing during matches.

917L 17-07-2018 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ (Post 14339098)
Neil Ruddock was a big lad too and played pretty well for us....for a while :)

No,

Ruddock was f*cking useless for us

Martin H 17-07-2018 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red&blue_moomin (Post 14339140)
Since you've all turned into Donald Trump

Picture 26 from the training camp in Sweden

https://www.cpfc.co.uk/siteassets/im...1-33.jpg/Large

It's clearly just a fans fit shirt that he's wearing during matches.

Yeah, i wish I was that fat......... hmmmm - Don't think anyone will be convinced until he strips. That would be a different video For CG :D

MFBias 17-07-2018 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 917L (Post 14339064)
At present Roy has no choice but to give him a chance

He could have aslo decided we dont need to replace Cabaye. Who knows what Hodgson has decided...

MFBias 17-07-2018 11:41 AM

What is annoying, is that he will find out about this and will be an unnecessary distraction whilst he should be allowed to be focused on preseason training. I hope he continues to wear a baggy shirt and bosses the midfield.

It’s nice to have a football players that doesnt copy what every other football player does.

bigend1 17-07-2018 11:46 AM

I did say maybe the shirt and hair colour

But on the stream it made him look fat and bald. It looked like a 60 year old, 15 stone old dad blagged his way on to the pitch! :supergrin:

He lasted most (all?) of the game though. Decent passing, lost his man a few times and didnít have the pace to catch them once gone. Jury still out for me

MFBias 17-07-2018 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigend1 (Post 14339215)
I did say maybe the shirt and hair colour

But on the stream it made him look fat and bald. It looked like a 60 year old, 15 stone old dad blagged his way on to the pitch! :supergrin:

He lasted most (all?) of the game though. Decent passing, lost his man a few times and didn’t have the pace to catch them once gone. Jury still out for me

He did look like Andy Gray playing in the Centenary match, I have to agree... but wonder if this new ‘crisis’ is going to get back to him.

Pub Idol 17-07-2018 12:01 PM

Mark Bright said he doesn't like the players fit shirt and prefers the looser fit style as more comfortable.

thereichstuff 17-07-2018 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ (Post 14339098)
Neil Ruddock was a big lad too and played pretty well for us....for a while :)

I must have missed that .

burgess hill 84 17-07-2018 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ (Post 14339098)
Neil Ruddock was a big lad too and played pretty well for us....for a while :)

Is that a joke ?

ebyeeckeagle 17-07-2018 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pub Idol (Post 14339233)
Mark Bright said he doesn't like the players fit shirt and prefers the looser fit style as more comfortable.

Probably for the best. Brighty has got a few extra pounds to carry TBF.

MFBias 17-07-2018 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thereichstuff (Post 14339240)
I must have missed that .

I was impressed with his passing range, but he was a fat bastard.

red&blue_moomin 17-07-2018 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFBias (Post 14339337)
I was impressed with his passing range, but he was a fat bastard.

Really? This is last week

https://www.cpfc.co.uk/siteassets/im...1-33.jpg/Large

#FakeNews

He dutch, he's in midfield, his shirts too big Riedewald, Riedewald.........

eagle-leg 17-07-2018 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebyeeckeagle (Post 14339265)
Probably for the best. Brighty has got a few extra pounds to carry TBF.

:supergrin::supergrin::supergrin:

eagle-leg 17-07-2018 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red&blue_moomin (Post 14339342)
Really? This is last week

https://www.cpfc.co.uk/siteassets/im...1-33.jpg/Large

#FakeNews

He dutch, he's in midfield, his shirts too big Riedewald, Riedewald.........

Fair enough... seems those club shop shirts are doing him a bit of a disservice.

Percy Dalton 17-07-2018 03:21 PM

twenty years ago it was not uncommon for players to come back for pre season carrying a few pounds, some a few stone! he looks fine from the photo's I have seen and at his age he will start to bulk out with muscles which should be a good thing managed correctly. I think he will be like adding a new player now he has settled and starting to mature. I have no doubt the turmoil of the start of last season would not have been an ideal start for him to allow a reasonable settling period.

sydnsteve 17-07-2018 03:52 PM

Be in teresting to see how he gets on

ee-ay-ee-ay-ee-ay-o 17-07-2018 03:57 PM

He's gonna be fine...he has very wide rounded shoulders and a smallish head which I think gives the impression of being on the large side.

As someone has repeated several times, there is no way he would have been allowed back as grossly overweight as some are suggesting.

old traf 18-07-2018 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFBias (Post 14339207)
He could have aslo decided we dont need to replace Cabaye. Who knows what Hodgson has decided...

I think if we don't replace Cabaye it's because we cant't afford to

GreatGonzo 18-07-2018 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle-leg (Post 14339387)
Fair enough... seems those club shop shirts are doing him a bit of a disservice.

I find that is the case when i wear them too :D

GreatGonzo 18-07-2018 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFBias (Post 14339207)
He could have aslo decided we dont need to replace Cabaye. Who knows what Hodgson has decided...

Last year, based on the time on the pitch (as only fair way to do it) Cabaye played 50% more passes than Riedewald. His pass completion was higher and Jairo didn't play any 'key passes' creating opportunities to score.

On the defensive side of his game he won as many tackles as Yohan and didn't miss as many as Cabaye did. He is better at taking on a player with the ball and did that successfully, better in the air than Yo was. He gave away less free kicks (see tackles above) but also he was never fouled himself and you might ask why not? He wasn't far off in terms of interceptions so reads the game pretty well.

Overall in terms of the defensive side of his game he probably offers as much as Cabaye did, however what he lacks the the mobility to get round the park, constantly offering himself for a pass and once have got possession the ability to turn that into something dangerous.

Probably why his best game came in CM against Man City when he had a great defensive game and the attacking side of it was less important.

Excowboy 18-07-2018 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo (Post 14340781)
Last year, based on the time on the pitch (as only fair way to do it) Cabaye played 50% more passes than Riedewald. His pass completion was higher and Jairo didn't play any 'key passes' creating opportunities to score.

On the defensive side of his game he won as many tackles as Yohan and didn't miss as many as Cabaye did. He is better at taking on a player with the ball and did that successfully, better in the air than Yo was. He gave away less free kicks (see tackles above) but also he was never fouled himself and you might ask why not? He wasn't far off in terms of interceptions so reads the game pretty well.

Overall in terms of the defensive side of his game he probably offers as much as Cabaye did, however what he lacks the the mobility to get round the park, constantly offering himself for a pass and once have got possession the ability to turn that into something dangerous.

Probably why his best game came in CM against Man City when he had a great defensive game and the attacking side of it was less important.

Where are you getting your stats from?

Whoscored has Cabaye at 2.3 tackles and 2.5 interceptions per game; Reidewald at 0.9 tackles and 1 interception per game. That's a massive gulf in defensive contribution.

Obviously Reidelwald came on as a sub a lot more so time on the pitch is more helpful but I haven't found any sites that show that.

GreatGonzo 18-07-2018 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excowboy (Post 14340788)
Where are you getting your stats from?

Whoscored has Cabaye at 2.3 tackles and 2.5 interceptions per game; Reidewald at 0.9 tackles and 1 interception per game. That's a massive gulf in defensive contribution.

Obviously Reidelwald came on as a sub a lot more so time on the pitch is more helpful but I haven't found any sites that show that.

Squawka do a player comparison matrix here:http://www2.squawka.com/comparison-matrix

Whoscored is flawed in that the number of tackles etc is divided by the number of appearances whether they play 1 minute or 90.

Excowboy 18-07-2018 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo (Post 14340793)
Squawka do a player comparison matrix here:http://www2.squawka.com/comparison-matrix

Whoscored is flawed in that the number of tackles etc is divided by the number of appearances whether they play 1 minute or 90.

That's a great tool. Thanks for the link.

eagle-leg 18-07-2018 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo (Post 14340772)
I find that is the case when i wear them too :D

Ha - likewise, though I'm not sure the 'players fit' would be a better option to be honest :supergrin:

Think we all need to get behind Jairo this year and hope that Roy believes he is capable of stepping into Cabaye's role this year.

Could save us a fortune!

alexcpfc 18-07-2018 01:31 PM

I would consider Jairo to be cover for Luka not a replacement for Cabaye. The problem we have is Cabaye knitted our midfield together nicely. When he played well the team always played well.

917L 18-07-2018 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle-leg (Post 14340869)
Ha - likewise, though I'm not sure the 'players fit' would be a better option to be honest :supergrin:

Think we all need to get behind Jairo this year and hope that Roy believes he is capable of stepping into Cabaye's role this year.

Could save us a fortune!

He is nowhere near Cabaye's level

GreatGonzo 18-07-2018 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 917L (Post 14340880)
He is nowhere near Cabaye's level

Not that we have seen so far but not to say he couldn't be.

The ball he played i think for one of our goals (one where KaiKai looked offside i think) was a sensational ball forward in the first friendly. We haven't seen much of him in an attacking/playmaking sense.

Was still worried by how little movement there was from him in that game though.

Work in progress.

jaxon 18-07-2018 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 917L (Post 14340880)
He is nowhere near Cabaye's level

Not yet. But he is only 21. Cabaye was v experienced.

Alexc26 18-07-2018 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excowboy (Post 14340788)
Where are you getting your stats from?

Whoscored has Cabaye at 2.3 tackles and 2.5 interceptions per game; Reidewald at 0.9 tackles and 1 interception per game. That's a massive gulf in defensive contribution.

Obviously Reidelwald came on as a sub a lot more so time on the pitch is more helpful but I haven't found any sites that show that.

Cabaye played 2,387 Minutes, Jairo played 434 minutes, both of those are Premier League minutes only.

SOUTHGATE EAGLE 18-07-2018 02:45 PM

I still hope we spend to replace Cabaye as well as we can but I think, if push came to shove, that Jairo could be the shield for the back four and allow Luka to play a slightly more advanced role, suiting him since he is such a good passer. At the least, Reidewald should be enough for us to get to the January window and reevaluate. I'm more worried about replacing what RLC did for us. Without him and if Wilf were injured, we become basically instant relegation fodder.

Hopefully the talk of being penniless is smoke and we'll bring in the CM and AM we need. Do that and an exciting season awaits, IMHO.

Martin H 18-07-2018 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE (Post 14340959)
I still hope we spend to replace Cabaye as well as we can but I think, if push came to shove, that Jairo could be the shield for the back four and allow Luka to play a slightly more advanced role, suiting him since he is such a good passer. At the least, Reidewald should be enough for us to get to the January window and reevaluate. I'm more worried about replacing what RLC did for us. Without him and if Wilf were injured, we become basically instant relegation fodder.

Hopefully the talk of being penniless is smoke and we'll bring in the CM and AM we need. Do that and an exciting season awaits, IMHO.

I think Jairo will be important as you say but I am not so convinced Luka can play too much further forward. It does depend where you mean. Certainly not as an AM (which we don't have anyway in our formation). If you mean as the playmaker in the middle then I think he is probably best left deep doing what he does now. Doing that from deep. I am looking forward to Lukas return so we can see how and who Roy tries out there. I am a bit nervous that none of the 3 likely CMs (Macca, Jairo or Luka) will create enough but it does depend who fills the 2 slots either side of the middle 2. We just don't know right now.

Alexc26 18-07-2018 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 14340973)
I am a bit nervous that none of the 3 likely CMs (Macca, Jairo or Luka) will create enough but it does depend who fills the 2 slots either side of the middle 2. We just don't know right now.

Probably Schlupp and Townsend I imagine ? We're a bit screwed when it comes to backup in those positions though.

MFBias 18-07-2018 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 14340973)
I think Jairo will be important as you say but I am not so convinced Luka can play too much further forward. It does depend where you mean. Certainly not as an AM (which we don't have anyway in our formation). If you mean as the playmaker in the middle then I think he is probably best left deep doing what he does now. Doing that from deep. I am looking forward to Lukas return so we can see how and who Roy tries out there. I am a bit nervous that none of the 3 likely CMs (Macca, Jairo or Luka) will create enough but it does depend who fills the 2 slots either side of the middle 2. We just don't know right now.

Miliviojevic scored more goals than Cabaye with 10 (yes 7 from the spot with one very important one against Southampton) with Cabaye scoring zero.

Miliviojevic also had the same amount of assists as Cabaye with 1, and what an assist it was, with the lofted pass to Zaha to head home against Brighton.

I would say I have no problem with Miliviojevic being tasked to create more next year in Cabaye’s place. Cabaye did do alot of sideways passing. Even McArthur scored 5 and assisted 1, so this Cabaye as the creative outlet in the midfield is abit of a fallacy.

Doesnt just end there

Passes
LM - 1652
YC - 1297

Shots
LM - 42
YC - 38

Tackles
LM - 85
YC - 70

Ariel Battles won
LM - 49
YC - 6!

Cleanances
LM - 74
YC - 28

Interceptions
LM - 71
YC - 79

GreatGonzo 18-07-2018 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFBias (Post 14341031)
Miliviojevic scored more goals than Cabaye with 10 (yes alot from the spot but several not, One very important one against Southampton) with Cabaye scoring zero.

Miliviojevic also had the same amount of assists as Cabaye with 1, and what an assist it was, with the lofted pass to Zaha to head home against Brighton.

I would say I have no problem with Miliviojevic being tasked to create more next year in Cabayeís place. Cabaye did do alot of sideways passing. Even McArthur scored 5 and assisted 1, so this Cabaye as the creative outlet in the midfield is abit of a fallacy.

Doesnt just end there

Passes
LM - 1652
YC - 1297

Shots
LM - 42
YC - 38

Tackles
LM - 85
YC - 70

Ariel Battles won
LM - 49
YC - 6!

Cleanances
LM - 74
YC - 28

Interceptions
LM - 71
YC - 79

Based on how much they actually played....

Luka played more passes and more successful ones although Cabayes % was marginally higher - very little between them.

Cabaye had more shots although Luka's accuracy was slightly better (does include pens though i think)

Cabaye made more successful tackles than Luka, and more unsuccessful ones

There is not a lot between them.

In stats you didn't include, Cabye created far more chances than Luka for others and gave away less free kicks.

Martin H 18-07-2018 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFBias (Post 14341031)
Miliviojevic scored more goals than Cabaye with 10 (yes 7 from the spot with one very important one against Southampton) with Cabaye scoring zero.

Miliviojevic also had the same amount of assists as Cabaye with 1, and what an assist it was, with the lofted pass to Zaha to head home against Brighton.

I would say I have no problem with Miliviojevic being tasked to create more next year in Cabayeís place. Cabaye did do alot of sideways passing. Even McArthur scored 5 and assisted 1, so this Cabaye as the creative outlet in the midfield is abit of a fallacy.

Doesnt just end there

Passes
LM - 1652
YC - 1297

Shots
LM - 42
YC - 38

Tackles
LM - 85
YC - 70

Ariel Battles won
LM - 49
YC - 6!

Cleanances
LM - 74
YC - 28

Interceptions
LM - 71
YC - 79

Not sure what provoked that effort but not too sure how relevant those stats are to the doubt I was expressing. If anything it reinforces it. I was suggesting that we keep Luka where he was last season because it suits him best and that moving him forward might not. You laid out the stats that if anything reinforce that. The stats don't tell us that he can do the same or better if asked to play further forward.

Always seems strange to me that its suggested so often that we change the position of players away from where they are excelling into a different position. Wouldn't a Manager of Roy's experience have done that already? With Wilf I understand it because he wasn't getting enough goals or assists. Lets see what Roy does. You could be right but today I would prefer he stayed where he has been doing so well.

SOUTHGATE EAGLE 18-07-2018 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFBias (Post 14341031)
Miliviojevic scored more goals than Cabaye with 10 (yes 7 from the spot with one very important one against Southampton) with Cabaye scoring zero.

Miliviojevic also had the same amount of assists as Cabaye with 1, and what an assist it was, with the lofted pass to Zaha to head home against Brighton.

I would say I have no problem with Miliviojevic being tasked to create more next year in Cabaye’s place. Cabaye did do alot of sideways passing. Even McArthur scored 5 and assisted 1, so this Cabaye as the creative outlet in the midfield is abit of a fallacy.

Doesnt just end there

Passes
LM - 1652
YC - 1297

Shots
LM - 42
YC - 38

Tackles
LM - 85
YC - 70

Ariel Battles won
LM - 49
YC - 6!

Cleanances
LM - 74
YC - 28

Interceptions
LM - 71
YC - 79

And yet it's been said Luka can't play as a CM or AM when he dominates Cabaye on stats more akin to those roles. Luka also started as an AM so I believe he can play as a CM at least, with Jairo doing the screening role.

I would prefer we buy a quality CM to add options and squad depth but, provided injuries don't reach the biblical plague level of last season, we should be able to get to January at least with our current midfield. Yes, replacing Cabaye properly would be preferable but I'm not prepared to agree with some that we are doomed without his services.

There's only one player we've proven we can't do without and that's why we MUST bring in either an adequate replacement for RLC or one hell of a winger to boost our creative options on the flank. We can't leave it all on Wilf again and we need to start insulating ourselves for his inevitable loss. If he shows the same level of improvement this season as last, there's no way he will still be with us twelve months from now and I hope the club is thinking of our creative options post Wilfred Zaha over this window and the next. Failing to do so is the only way I can see us getting relegated in the near future given the otherwise good general strength of our current squad.

MFBias 18-07-2018 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 14341103)
Not sure what provoked that effort but not too sure how relevant those stats are to the doubt I was expressing. If anything it reinforces it. I was suggesting that we keep Luka where he was last season because it suits him best and that moving him forward might not. You laid out the stats that if anything reinforce that. The stats don't tell us that he can do the same or better if asked to play further forward.

Always seems strange to me that its suggested so often that we change the position of players away from where they are excelling into a different position. Wouldn't a Manager of Roy's experience have done that already? With Wilf I understand it because he wasn't getting enough goals or assists. Lets see what Roy does. You could be right but today I would prefer he stayed where he has been doing so well.

You said you were ‘abit nervous’ about leaving creative duties to Miliviojevic, when he has been far more creative in a defensive position. I just think people put Cabaye on a pedestal, yes he was good but I dont think he was the best centre midfielder last year.

It’s not like suggesting playing Jedinak at Centreback, it’s another role in Centre Midfield which he can obviously play.

bodger 18-07-2018 08:58 PM

YC or LM it's LM every time JR could be the man he looks to have bulked up so can play a DM role with Luka in a more attacking role.

Martin H 18-07-2018 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFBias (Post 14341292)
You said you were Ďabit nervousí about leaving creative duties to Miliviojevic, when he has been far more creative in a defensive position. I just think people put Cabaye on a pedestal, yes he was good but I dont think he was the best centre midfielder last year.

Itís not like suggesting playing Jedinak at Centreback, itís another role in Centre Midfield which he can obviously play.

I wasn't comparing him to or referencing Cabaye which was why I was confused by the detailed comparison of stats. Sounds as if I probably rated Cabaye higher than you did but it's all bit irrelevant now really - he's gone.

I am definitely not knocking Luka, more saying that he is best left in his DM role where he has proven himself a real success. I wouldn't be trying to turn him into a CM or even less likely an AM. It's the pairing of Macca and Luka that worries me if that is supposed to be out creative platform in the middle next season. It doesn't feel as strong going forward or defensively to me. I would prefer Macca was right or left midfield.But lets see how the friendlies and the transfers shape up.

It's just a casual opinion in response to posts, not a crusade on my part although the same point has come up on several posts.

MFBias 18-07-2018 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 14341352)
I wasn't comparing him to or referencing Cabaye which was why I was confused by the detailed comparison of stats. Sounds as if I probably rated Cabaye higher than you did but it's all bit irrelevant now really - he's gone.

I am definitely not knocking Luka, more saying that he is best left in his DM role where he has proven himself a real success. I wouldn't be trying to turn him into a CM or even less likely an AM. It's the pairing of Macca and Luka that worries me if that is supposed to be out creative platform in the middle next season. It doesn't feel as strong going forward or defensively to me. I would prefer Macca was right or left midfield.But lets see how the friendlies and the transfers shape up.

It's just a casual opinion in response to posts, not a crusade on my part although the same point has come up on several posts.

Fair enough, I however will be interested to see what happens when Miliviojevic comes back. I think Rieldewald is going to get a chance in the first team this year.

AJ 18-07-2018 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodger (Post 14341304)
YC or LM it's LM every time JR could be the man he looks to have bulked up so can play a DM role with Luka in a more attacking role.

I would never knock Luka, but if you watched Serbia in the WC, Luka was a different player to the one who plays at Palace. It may have had something to do with the other midfielders around him.

Martin H 18-07-2018 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFBias (Post 14341364)
Fair enough, I however will be interested to see what happens when Miliviojevic comes back. I think Rieldewald is going to get a chance in the first team this year.

I agree and I also hope Jairo gets more of a chance. As a minimum I hope that he gets a healthy amount of games. We do need to be able to share the workload rather than rely on the same 11 every week. The next few weeks define the season again though. Depends on who comes in and out of the doors.

glaziers fan 19-07-2018 03:37 AM

I do think that Jairo is the better partner for Luka (not McArthur) but that's because he sits in which is more in keeping with what Cabaye did alongside Luka. That said, of YC and LM I feel that Yo was ever so slightly further forward at times but did little with the ball - wonder if anyone has an average position map to test my theory! I get why people want Luka slightly further forward; he strikes a good ball and the goal vs Soton and assist for Wilf's header are a testament to that. But ultimately in this system they sit in, and it is up to the wide midfielders to get forward and create.

That said, if we were to sign RLC everyone assumes he'd play left mid, but I'd play him next to Luka in the centre. Roy has always said he is a centre mid long term. Yes he carries the ball, but he was previously thought of as a defensive holding mid. He could help us spring counter attacks; I don't think it would hurt his development to play slightly further back and in the centre. He is physical, can tackle and has a decent passing range but we didn't see that when on the left so much. Very attacking though and could leave us susceptible to counter attacks - we'd need a lot of pace elsewhere to cover.

MFBias 19-07-2018 10:06 AM

Loftus-Cheek actually had his best games under de Boer where he played Centre Mid.

I was instanly blown away, a midfielder who could run and pass but also get stuck in with headers and tackles. I dont know what it was either getting an England call up, different tactics due to manager change and playing in a diffferent position but he was never the all round player again that season. He was execellent when he came back from injury but he was abit weaker, being easily shrugged off and too ponderious, maybe he’s posistion is centre mid rather than a flank?

GreatGonzo 19-07-2018 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFBias (Post 14341691)
Loftus-Cheek actually had his best games under de Boer where he played Centre Mid.

I was instanly blown away, a midfielder who could run and pass but also get stuck in with headers and tackles. I dont know what it was either getting an England call up, different tactics due to manager change and playing in a diffferent position but he was never the all round player again that season. He was execellent when he came back from injury but he was abit weaker, being easily shrugged off and too ponderious, maybe heís posistion is centre mid rather than a flank?

It is but until he improves the defensive side of his game he needs 2 in there with him which Palace don't play.

Sleeping Giant 19-07-2018 11:29 AM

If we're skint we need to sell Schlupp and Riedewald providing we can recoup all our cash (probably). They cost too much for players not automatic in the 1st XI . As soon as you are carrying guys you are trying to fit in somewhere you are beginning to lose sight of priorities.

PalaceSi 19-07-2018 11:41 AM

Personally i thought RLC's defensive side of his game was badly lacking and i wouldn't want to be relying on him in centre mid.
His lack of tracking back was fairly appalling and he he never seemed to be focused on his defensive duties.

It was actually hard to know where to play him, he's not a number 10 and he couldn't be trusted in front of the back 4 so out on the wing it was. It wasn't his position but he could be effective and we didn't need to rely on his defensive work.

I'm not sure why we are so mad keen on him. We might get him back for another loan but loads of other teams would want him too and we certainly can't afford to buy him not now or ever. Frankly for the money it'd take to buy him i wouldn't want him anyway, for that money i'd want a midfielder who can play in midfield.

thereichstuff 19-07-2018 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping Giant (Post 14341803)
If we're skint we need to sell Schlupp and Riedewald providing we can recoup all our cash (probably). They cost too much for players not automatic in the 1st XI . As soon as you are carrying guys you are trying to fit in somewhere you are beginning to lose sight of priorities.

They are important squad players . Not everyone is a automatic 1st team player , we are not at that level . Keep them as they will have a part to play this season .

Sleeping Giant 19-07-2018 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thereichstuff (Post 14341819)
They are important squad players . Not everyone is a automatic 1st team player , we are not at that level . Keep them as they will have a part to play this season .

We are at the level where support players should cost less if we are indeed skint. Funds need to be used where we can hurt people most as a priority, there is no point spending on sort of quite good fillers. If nobody wants them ofcourse we're stuffed but this an area we should be trading in rather than considering moving the likes of Andros on for example.

glaziers fan 19-07-2018 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFBias (Post 14341691)
Loftus-Cheek actually had his best games under de Boer where he played Centre Mid.

I was instanly blown away, a midfielder who could run and pass but also get stuck in with headers and tackles. I dont know what it was either getting an England call up, different tactics due to manager change and playing in a diffferent position but he was never the all round player again that season. maybe heís posistion is centre mid rather than a flank?

COMPLETELY agree. As a centre mid RLC worked much harder on the defensive side covering the centre backs, and displayed his all round game with tackles, 40 yard passes etc as well as the driving runs we have become accustomed to. I was beginning to think I was the only one who saw this side to him under FdB, and that maybe I'd exaggerated it in my head like normal ;)

Was it under Hodgson's orders that as a narrow wide left midfielder he ran with the ball and chose not worry so much with any defensive responsibility? Either way, I believe he has the attributes to be even better at centre mid under Hodgson than he was as a left mid. He's going to be some player when played through the middle.


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