CPFC BBS

CPFC BBS (https://www.cpfc.org/forums/index.php)
-   General Palace Discussion (https://www.cpfc.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   Jairo Riedewald (https://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=271278)

MFBias 19-07-2018 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping Giant (Post 14341803)
If we're skint we need to sell Schlupp and Riedewald providing we can recoup all our cash (probably). They cost too much for players not automatic in the 1st XI . As soon as you are carrying guys you are trying to fit in somewhere you are beginning to lose sight of priorities.

I think you will see this year that Rieldewald and Schlupp will be important players. They are also both versatile, something you need in a squad. Hodgson likes both of them, so you will be seeing them.

Schlupp has been unlucky with injuries, but did you not see him at the end of last season, he was on fire, it was just hard to get into the team as everyone was!

MFBias 19-07-2018 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeping Giant (Post 14341839)
We are at the level where support players should cost less if we are indeed skint. Funds need to be used where we can hurt people most as a priority, there is no point spending on sort of quite good fillers. If nobody wants them ofcourse we're stuffed but this an area we should be trading in rather than considering moving the likes of Andros on for example.

Sell two decent players and buy two less quality players because they are cheaper? Is that what you are saying?

glaziers fan 19-07-2018 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFBias (Post 14341850)
Sell two decent players and buy two less quality players because they are cheaper? Is that what you are saying?

Quite the opposite. He wants us to sell the squad players and sign another first XI player. And I understand the reasoning. Apparently in the papers they were saying we are looking to offload Riedewald. Assume it is so we can buy someone superior and hope it is RLC.

MFBias 19-07-2018 01:34 PM

We need some squad depth, I wouldnt trade Schlupp and Rieldwwald for Loftus-Cheek, who is injury prone. His back has to be managed apparently.

red&blue_moomin 19-07-2018 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glaziers fan (Post 14341878)
Quite the opposite. He wants us to sell the squad players and sign another first XI player. And I understand the reasoning. Apparently in the papers they were saying we are looking to offload Riedewald. Assume it is so we can buy someone superior and hope it is RLC.

You do realise that will be agent bollocks, or another club testing the water to get a bite and see if we're interested in selling.

Right now our squad has two spaces we have 23 over 21 players. Funnily enough the exact two midfielders we are missing. How does selling another two midfielders fix that? Moronic so we'd have to buy four midfielders instead of two ******* brilliant. Talk about the brains trust FFS.

The only players worth anything more than what we paid for them are Andros, Luka, PVA, Tonka, Vicente and Wilf that's how you raise money for more players and at the same time replace the 1st teamer that you've sold. But doing that apart from selling Wilf for £80M would be suicide.

CaptainCharisma 19-07-2018 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glaziers fan (Post 14341878)
Quite the opposite. He wants us to sell the squad players and sign another first XI player. And I understand the reasoning. Apparently in the papers they were saying we are looking to offload Riedewald. Assume it is so we can buy someone superior and hope it is RLC.

Offload him? If our two friendlies in Scandanavia are anything to by, I think we are looking to play him in Cabaye's spot.

GreatGonzo 19-07-2018 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCharisma (Post 14342229)
Offload him? If our two friendlies in Scandanavia are anything to by, I think we are looking to play him in Cabaye's spot.

If last year Asian friendlies were anything to go by last year Luka was a CB and Lokilo starting on the wing.

Pistol Knight 19-07-2018 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCharisma (Post 14342229)
Offload him? If our two friendlies in Scandanavia are anything to by, I think we are looking to play him in Cabaye's spot.

In Denmark he sure looked like Cabaye, after 95mins at that was at the start of the game, reminded me of KG!

bodger 19-07-2018 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ (Post 14341384)
I would never knock Luka, but if you watched Serbia in the WC, Luka was a different player to the one who plays at Palace. It may have had something to do with the other midfielders around him.

Yes Lukas talent was wasted he is a far better player then allowed to show.

GreatGonzo 19-07-2018 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistol Knight (Post 14342239)
In Denmark he sure looked like Cabaye, after 95mins at that was at the start of the game, reminded me of KG!

Assume the KG comment is about his size although that has been done over and over on here. He prefers the fan style shirt over the players fit and it has the effect of making him look bigger.

However he has come from a much slower paced game in Holland and even when he played last season he showed he was not quite up at the pace of the PL, especially in terms of the athleticism.

At Ajax he would play 60-70 passes a game. yes they would have more possession but there didn't need to be as much movement. Cabaye's skill was partially in how much he moved to always be available for a pass and to always be able to get on the ball. Jario's average passes were down in the 30s (based on 90 minutes played) but he doesn't move as well to be able to get on the ball. His successful passes dropped from Ajax too as space is more compacted and players are better at stopping you keeping the ball.

Like all young players, especially those coming from abroad, the step up to PL football week in week out is a huge one. He will take time to develop, if indeed he does, just like Sorloth. Interesting that Kirby said the first friendly was a big step up in the pace of the game compared to what he is used to.

CaptainCharisma 19-07-2018 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo (Post 14342232)
If last year Asian friendlies were anything to go by last year Luka was a CB and Lokilo starting on the wing.

We had an idiot in charge back then! I may well be wrong, but Jairo got more game time than most I believe, and I just wonder if roy is trying to get him ready as much as possible, so that if we don't sign a Cabs replacement, then he will be set to go. That is just the impression I am getting.

As for the comment someone else said about Luka not looking as good for Serbia, I honestly believe Cabs was a big part of that. In a Palace shirt, Luka was often a much better player when he had Cabs in the middle with him. Both were excellent on the ball and determined to break up play. Quality often enhances quality and I think they made each other better players because they worked as a pair. Cabs will be a bigger loss then many give him credit for.

Jim Cannon 19-07-2018 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCharisma (Post 14342229)
Offload him? If our two friendlies in Scandanavia are anything to by, I think we are looking to play him in Cabaye's spot.

Wouldn't take any notice of team selections just yet, nor care about results of friendlies, they mean nothing

PALACEWU 19-07-2018 07:14 PM

Who calls him cabs?

bourne man 19-07-2018 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PALACEWU (Post 14342336)
Who calls him cabs?

:supergrin:

Stan the man 19-07-2018 07:59 PM

Replacing Cabaye with Reidelwald is absurd. He may come good in time, but you cant compare them in terms of nouse, skill, experience, even playing style. Cabaye needs a like for like replacement and JR should be brought in as a squad player and as cover. Anything else is asking for trouble...

Stan the man 19-07-2018 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PALACEWU (Post 14342336)
Who calls him cabs?

If you ask nicely most pubs will do that for you.

Kai 19-07-2018 08:16 PM

Was it only me who thought he looked overweight in the recent friendly at Halmstad?

Jim Cannon 19-07-2018 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai (Post 14342393)
Was it only me who thought he looked overweight in the recent friendly at Halmstad?

No one has suggested it at all

thereichstuff 19-07-2018 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo (Post 14342232)
If last year Asian friendlies were anything to go by last year Luka was a CB and Lokilo starting on the wing.

Fdb.

16eagles 19-07-2018 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan the man (Post 14342376)
Replacing Cabaye with Reidelwald is absurd. He may come good in time, but you cant compare them in terms of nouse, skill, experience, even playing style. Cabaye needs a like for like replacement and JR should be brought in as a squad player and as cover. Anything else is asking for trouble...

Although I agree, he is still the closest centre mid ball playing midfielder to Yohan. Off the ball vision and awareness is all outstanding for someone his age. I think he will come good this year but has to play with Milivojevic in middle

TWELLSEagle 19-07-2018 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCharisma (Post 14342309)
We had an idiot in charge back then! I may well be wrong, but Jairo got more game time than most I believe, and I just wonder if roy is trying to get him ready as much as possible, so that if we don't sign a Cabs replacement, then he will be set to go. That is just the impression I am getting.

As for the comment someone else said about Luka not looking as good for Serbia, I honestly believe Cabs was a big part of that. In a Palace shirt, Luka was often a much better player when he had Cabs in the middle with him. Both were excellent on the ball and determined to break up play. Quality often enhances quality and I think they made each other better players because they worked as a pair. Cabs will be a bigger loss then many give him credit for.

Spot on. Enough with the ďcabsĒ though! 🤢

CPFC.1990 19-07-2018 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCharisma (Post 14342309)
We had an idiot in charge back then! I may well be wrong, but Jairo got more game time than most I believe, and I just wonder if roy is trying to get him ready as much as possible, so that if we don't sign a Cabs replacement, then he will be set to go. That is just the impression I am getting.

As for the comment someone else said about Luka not looking as good for Serbia, I honestly believe Cabs was a big part of that. In a Palace shirt, Luka was often a much better player when he had Cabs in the middle with him. Both were excellent on the ball and determined to break up play. Quality often enhances quality and I think they made each other better players because they worked as a pair. Cabs will be a bigger loss then many give him credit for.

'Cabs'!? Cringe

MFBias 19-07-2018 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo (Post 14342232)
If last year Asian friendlies were anything to go by last year Luka was a CB and Lokilo starting on the wing.

Come on dont be obtuse, a major diffence is we had a complete muppet as a manager,.

MFBias 19-07-2018 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPFC.1990 (Post 14342447)
'Cabs'!? Cringe

I cant stand ĎYoí either.

CP-RJW 21-07-2018 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWELLSEagle (Post 14342434)
Spot on. Enough with the “cabs” though! ��

Sounds like a pet name a 14 year old girl has for her ‘bestie.’

CaptainCharisma 21-07-2018 10:46 PM

I have to laugh that people are moaning about the use of ‘cabs’, because that of course is the important point! Quicker than writing cabaye and it’s sometimes it’s just how some of us would refer to him. I apologise for nothing!

Cabs

MFBias 21-07-2018 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCharisma (Post 14345376)
I have to laugh that people are moaning about the use of Ďcabsí, because that of course is the important point! Quicker than writing cabaye and itís sometimes itís just how some of us would refer to him. I apologise for nothing!

Cabs

Quicker to write? Y botha writin ny wordz in full.

You need all that extra time for jerking to internet porn? You have fibre optic? You can save even more time...

Hedgehog 21-07-2018 11:46 PM

I thought he had a pretty good game today for a pre-season game.

Not a player to run with the ball like RLC or get stuck in like Luka, but looked to get the ball from a team mate and put a pass out there to to spread the play.

Timbo 21-07-2018 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPFC.1990 (Post 14342447)
'Cabs'!? Cringe

Oi! Leave "Caps" alone!! ;)

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 26-07-2018 12:29 PM

I have been quite unconvinced by Jairo but with us leaving transfers late and any new players unlikely to be integrated by the time the season starts, it will be massive chance for him if he does get the start at Craven Cottage. It's quite likely Wilf and Andros will start up top with Schlupp and Jimmy in the wider midfield roles. Hope he can prove doubters like me wrong if he does get that opportunity.

Riley 26-07-2018 12:42 PM

Iím backing Jairo to step up and prove his worth this season. Hope everyone remembers heís younger than Kaikai, who we see as pretty green, and only slightly older than AWB.

palace_burger 26-07-2018 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riley (Post 14352392)
Iím backing Jairo to step up and prove his worth this season. Hope everyone remembers heís younger than Kaikai, who we see as pretty green, and only slightly older than AWB.

Very good point

Excowboy 28-07-2018 10:36 PM

Really think there needs to be an update of the most recent Palace Minute to include a Jairo rendition of 'Loose Fit'.

Isle of Wight 29-07-2018 08:55 AM

Maybe if Bubbs medical bill target is achieved he may well do it ;)

(I'll take any chance for another plug :) link below )

wedgetail 29-07-2018 09:09 AM

The flip flop from useless waste of money to saviour is amusing as his play hasn't changed.

mushroom 29-07-2018 09:14 AM

Iím not convinced by him.

glaziers fan 29-07-2018 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mushroom (Post 14357253)
Iím not convinced by him.

He's the back-up. He's a good passer, but McArthur is more experienced and a better player at the moment.

Martin H 29-07-2018 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riley (Post 14352392)
Iím backing Jairo to step up and prove his worth this season. Hope everyone remembers heís younger than Kaikai, who we see as pretty green, and only slightly older than AWB.

Agree that people seem to forget that Jairo and Sorloth are both youngsters. I think that Jairo has had a very tidy pre-season. He does exactly what you want that role to do. Wins the ball and moves the ball from side to side to stretch play and rarely gives the ball away. He has started now to build on that by threading through some good forward passes and should offer a very solid option this season.

TAM 29-07-2018 10:21 AM

Maybe there's a place to fit in the team especially against the top teams, yesterday second half there were a few changes to score but thankfully they didn't

PemboExpress 29-07-2018 10:31 AM

I thought he was OK yesterday. His passing was accurate if none too adventurous, but he did give away a couple of silly free kicks.

An amusing observation from the Reading fans forum on him yesterday:

"Meyler was only good because he had the better of the Palace 44 who was the size of Croydon and slower than Brian the Snail. (Kinnel he really eat all the proverbial pies.)"

Thefunkymonk 29-07-2018 10:41 AM

Didn’t misplace a pass, apart from a silly fould he gave away at edge of box looked tidy. Think he’s a good player and will get better.

Malarkey 29-07-2018 10:46 AM

He'll obviously improve. Not sure why people are calling him a waste of money. Same as Sorloth.

Martin H 29-07-2018 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thefunkymonk (Post 14357402)
Didnít misplace a pass, apart from a silly fould he gave away at edge of box looked tidy. Think heís a good player and will get better.

He plays intelligently and has the discipline needed. I think Schlupp has done well in pre-season too and has had some nice moments but it's all a bit off the cuff whereas Jairo strikes me as having that football smarts that normally comes with a load of experience. Don't want to over-egg this but it's very encouraging in a youngster. He played a really nice ball in for PVA in the first half that put him in and if he peppers his game with those he will do fine.

NickinOx 29-07-2018 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malarkey (Post 14357407)
He'll obviously improve. Not sure why people are calling him a waste of money. Same as Sorloth.

I know. People call out for the club to buy young players with potential, bring through players from the academy, etc., but then complain they are not the finished article after a few appearances, or claim they are the best thing since sliced bread (AWB). Itís silly.

All the young players need time, and the best judge is Roy who sees them playing and training every day.

Tim 29-07-2018 11:08 AM

He’s a good example of why we’ve got no money to spend. We’ve frittered away way too much money on average players with little to no resale value. This guy is bang average & his weight gain is a sign of his commitment to his playing career. I’d say move him on but I can’t see who would want him so we can write off another £8 million.

gilesy14 29-07-2018 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 14357442)
He’s a good example of why we’ve got no money to spend. We’ve frittered away way too much money on average players with little to no resale value. This guy is bang average & his weight gain is a sign of his commitment to his playing career. I’d say move him on but I can’t see who would want him so we can write off another £8 million.

This is quite simply a load of bollocks. Jairo is one of the most decent bits of business we’ve done. £9mil for a 20 year old from Ajax with bags of potential is fantastic business in today’s climate. The kid has had one season to adapt to a new country, like Jedinak needed - but you’re just gonna write him off?! Class. Not exactly a Jordon Mutch is he.

& by the way, it’s been stated several times by people at the club that the weight gain is a myth. He’s just requested to wear a baggier shirt for comfort. But calling him fat probably helps back up your agenda.

Steve in Phoenix 29-07-2018 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glaziers fan (Post 14357326)
He's the back-up. He's a good passer, but McArthur is more experienced and a better player at the moment.

People just don't realise how young Riedewald is. McArthur is 10 years older and has played hundreds of games compared to Riedewald's 12. Not really a good comparison to make. Jairo is younger than the likes of Jonny Williams and Sulley Kaikai.

Owngoal 29-07-2018 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 14357442)
Heís a good example of why weíve got no money to spend. Weíve frittered away way too much money on average players with little to no resale value. This guy is bang average & his weight gain is a sign of his commitment to his playing career. Iíd say move him on but I canít see who would want him so we can write off another £8 million.

His passing accuracy was the best in the Dutch league (could see that yesterday) and he wears an unfitted shirt that makes him look bigger than he is (amazing that he can run so much if he was overweight and Roy certainly would not have allowed that). He will one day go for a big fee as he continues to develop - Williams loses the ball cheaply just like Punch does - hence I know which of the three should be getting game time.

delboy01 29-07-2018 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owngoal (Post 14357455)
His passing accuracy was the best in the Dutch league (could see that yesterday) and he wears an unfitted shirt that makes him look bigger than he is (amazing that he can run so much if he was overweight and Roy certainly would not have allowed that). He will one day go for a big fee as he continues to develop - Williams loses the ball cheaply just like Punch does - hence I know which of the three should be getting game time.

Agree with this 100%. Not noticed the shirt thing before. He seems to improve every game.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 29-07-2018 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malarkey (Post 14357407)
He'll obviously improve. Not sure why people are calling him a waste of money. Same as Sorloth.

I certainly wouldn't say he was a "waste" and its way too early to suggest that. But I think with the budget constraints we've had in recent windows and gaps in the squad it is very reasonable to ask if we could have spent it better.

Tim 29-07-2018 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owngoal (Post 14357455)
His passing accuracy was the best in the Dutch league (could see that yesterday) and he wears an unfitted shirt that makes him look bigger than he is (amazing that he can run so much if he was overweight and Roy certainly would not have allowed that). He will one day go for a big fee as he continues to develop - Williams loses the ball cheaply just like Punch does - hence I know which of the three should be getting game time.

Sorry fellas, Iím just not seeing it. As for the weight gain, itís evident for everyone to see..

Dave Hedgehog 29-07-2018 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 14357493)
Sorry fellas, Iím just not seeing it. As for the weight gain, itís evident for everyone to see..

Are you on a wind up?

It's a fan fit shirt. This has been covered many times now. Keep up!

cockles 29-07-2018 12:26 PM

It seems likely he's going to get game time in the prem league this season, so we'll see soon enough if he's up to it. There's nothing else to say until then.

red&blue_moomin 29-07-2018 12:26 PM

.

red&blue_moomin 29-07-2018 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 14357493)
Sorry fellas, I’m just not seeing it. As for the weight gain, it’s evident for everyone to see..

https://www.cpfc.co.uk/siteassets/im...1-33.jpg/Large

This is from the training camp in Sweden.

FFS he's been asked on Palace TV about it and explained he doesn't like the tight fit shirts for match days. Mark Bright has explained it too.

He's played three 90 minute matches and a 45 recently. Fat FFS believe everything I see with my own eyes blah blah blah, I think you might need them checked! You've called three people at the club liars.

Percy Dalton 29-07-2018 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 14357442)
He’s a good example of why we’ve got no money to spend. We’ve frittered away way too much money on average players with little to no resale value. This guy is bang average & his weight gain is a sign of his commitment to his playing career. I’d say move him on but I can’t see who would want him so we can write off another £8 million.

Bodyweight gain is as others have said a myth but he grown muscle as you would expect from a maturing athlete

Glɑzier 29-07-2018 12:53 PM

I agree with a lot on here, if he gets a run of games I think he'll become a very solid midfielder for us. Also at risk of stagnating if he doesn't get games though... He needs a add a bit of physicality and snap to his game as well, but I do think he had the speed of thought and intelligence to make it. For heaven's sake, he showed that against man city....

exiledeagle 29-07-2018 12:54 PM

Been quite impressed with him during pre season , looks a bit leggy as game goes on but keeps possession well and makes himself available . Trouble is most on here feel we need 2 additions in midfield ( me included ) so that would in all probability mean less playing time for Jairo - not sure he would accept that .

Palace43 29-07-2018 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14357492)
I certainly wouldn't say he was a "waste" and its way too early to suggest that. But I think with the budget constraints we've had in recent windows and gaps in the squad it is very reasonable to ask if we could have spent it better.

You realise the gap is at central midfield? The position that Riedewald actually plays?

bubbs11 29-07-2018 01:04 PM

I think within Roy’s brilliantly worked system, where everyone knows their jobs; Jiro, Johnny and even Punch will be great squad players throughout the season. Noticed in pre season, Punch is a lot less wasteful as he knows exactly what to do when he gets the ball, whereas before he almost had to make it up as he went along and make something happen, and that’s when things went wrong for him. He’s still got the skill and movement that fits well into Roy’s system in midfield.

As for Jiro; his passing and football brain for his tender age is already a very promising sign. We could well have a real player on our hands here.

LuieJack 29-07-2018 01:15 PM

For all the stick he has taken on here, FDB also needs congratulating for spotting the talent that clearly was there with Riedewald when he signed him, he also knew the best system JR fitted into providing he had the right players around him. We will never get to know what FDB plans were.
As for JR he has taken time to come to the forefront understandably with all the turmoil that happened around him and at just 21 in a foreign land its no wonder we never saw his better performances last season. So with pre season and Roy's help will see big improvements, but we also need to show patience and not rush him into the team as he develops his confidence but i think he has what is needed to become a regular in the months ahead.

bodger 29-07-2018 01:42 PM

It looks like RH sees him in Lukas role, that may give Luka the YC position i can see that working well.

Martin H 29-07-2018 01:44 PM

I have realised for a long time that we all see players and performances differently but this bs about Jairo being fat just makes me wonder about people’s eyesight. Beyond that who is it that would believe some ‘fat dude’ would get near to starting a match. Crazy world.

bigend1 29-07-2018 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuieJack (Post 14357615)
For all the stick he has taken on here, FDB also needs congratulating for spotting the talent that clearly was there with Riedewald when he signed him, he also knew the best system JR fitted into providing he had the right players around him. We will never get to know what FDB plans were.
As for JR he has taken time to come to the forefront understandably with all the turmoil that happened around him and at just 21 in a foreign land its no wonder we never saw his better performances last season. So with pre season and Roy's help will see big improvements, but we also need to show patience and not rush him into the team as he develops his confidence but i think he has what is needed to become a regular in the months ahead.

Fdb signed him as a cb and he was awful

Ajax fans laughed at how much we paid for him

I hope he makes it here, Iíve been increasingly impressed through preseason and think he has got potential but certainly not as first choice this season.

We paid way way over the odds for someone that wasnít good enough for what he was bought for. Happily it looks like we might get him better in another position. Iím not sure sucking franks cock is really needed for this

Thefunkymonk 29-07-2018 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 14357493)
Sorry fellas, Iím just not seeing it. As for the weight gain, itís evident for everyone to see..

Assume your a finely turned athlete yourself....

My guess is not

Billy Rhino 29-07-2018 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 14357442)
Heís a good example of why weíve got no money to spend. Weíve frittered away way too much money on average players with little to no resale value. This guy is bang average & his weight gain is a sign of his commitment to his playing career. Iíd say move him on but I canít see who would want him so we can write off another £8 million.

Strange time to say this comment as his stock is up at the moment. I agree it did seem a lot of money, likewise with Sorloth, but these sorts of signings are the way forward. What we really should be doing is signing a few more promising young players for around £1-2m.

There's no easy answer though as either short term or long term options have risks attached to them. The only thing the club can really do is get the best scouting system it can and hope the majority of the signings work.

Dave Hedgehog 29-07-2018 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigend1 (Post 14357677)

Ajax fans laughed at how much we paid for him

Basing your opinion of a player on what a few teenagers say on Twitter is not going to end well.

West Ham also told us we had overpaid for Tomkins etc etc etc...

Danny boy 29-07-2018 02:38 PM

8m for a very talented young midfielder is excellent value.

Billy Rhino 29-07-2018 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thefunkymonk (Post 14357681)
Assume your a finely turned athlete yourself....

My guess is not

Whats that got to do with anything?

Martin H 29-07-2018 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigend1 (Post 14357677)
Fdb signed him as a cb and he was awful

Ajax fans laughed at how much we paid for him

I hope he makes it here, Iíve been increasingly impressed through preseason and think he has got potential but certainly not as first choice this season.

We paid way way over the odds for someone that wasnít good enough for what he was bought for. Happily it looks like we might get him better in another position. Iím not sure sucking franks cock is really needed for this

So exactly how many games have you seen him play at CB then? One?

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 29-07-2018 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palace43 (Post 14357600)
You realise the gap is at central midfield? The position that Riedewald actually plays?

As you have gone for that patronising tone, I will too.

You do realise he was signed last season? And at that point central midfield was NOT the position we needed someone for? And that he was actually signed as a left sided centre back in a back 3? Despite a huge injury crisis he still only started 4 games last season and was only used as a sub on 8 ocassions?

So, yes, there is certainly a valid argument we could have spent it better as we went forward with only 2 goal keepers and started the season with only one recognised striker. Moreover, he still, even now has yet to show he is good enough as a central midfielder in the PL. I agree that he looked decent yesterday but we were playing a poor Championship side.

Gyro1780 29-07-2018 02:58 PM

Not sure on him being first choice yet but can see him getting a lot more game time this season.

CP-RJW 29-07-2018 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14357761)
Moreover, he still, even now has yet to show he is good enough as a central midfielder in the PL.

He’s started in midfield 3 times in the Prem. 1 brilliant performance vs Man City, 1 good performance vs Burnley, 1 meh performance vs Spurs. So when he gets a chance, he does pretty decent.

Thefunkymonk 29-07-2018 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Rhino (Post 14357753)
Whats that got to do with anything?

Iím guessing RH, his staff, the players and Jairo know if heís fat or not.. not some dude behind a keyboard that probably isnít an athlete himself. Donít get how people find it difficult to comprehend.. heís wearing a baggier shirt through choice..

Bovril Dan 29-07-2018 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 14357442)
He’s a good example of why we’ve got no money to spend. We’ve frittered away way too much money on average players with little to no resale value. This guy is bang average & his weight gain is a sign of his commitment to his playing career. I’d say move him on but I can’t see who would want him so we can write off another £8 million.

Couldn`t disagree more ! I have been fortunate enough to go to the Helsingor, Oxford and Reading games and for me, with the exception of Zaha, he has been the stand out player. I see him as very much a part of the squad this year, either as the DM, pushing Luka forward, or replacement for Luka should he get injured.

Ifill Over 29-07-2018 04:00 PM

I am undecided about him. I need to see more of him. In his defence, he came into the team playing the Ajax keep ball, which is alien to us. He has had to adjust to the premier league and the style of a different manager. He does appear to be one of the best passers of the ball. He needs games, which he did not get last season.

So he likes a loose fitting shirt, that does not make him fat.

Let's get behind the lad.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 29-07-2018 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CP-RJW (Post 14357792)
He’s started in midfield 3 times in the Prem. 1 brilliant performance vs Man City, 1 good performance vs Burnley, 1 meh performance vs Spurs. So when he gets a chance, he does pretty decent.

Im not disputing that to honest, although he was poor when he started there against Bristol City in the cup. I am saying that with him making so few appearances (as a result of not being selected) there is certainly an argument that we could have sent the money better.

glaziers fan 29-07-2018 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14357492)
I certainly wouldn't say he was a "waste" and its way too early to suggest that. But I think with the budget constraints we've had in recent windows and gaps in the squad it is very reasonable to ask if we could have spent it better.

I think his arrival (and Sorloth plus Jach) has signalled a move towards younger players being acquired. It is something that needed to happen at some point but perhaps the switch to that happened too soon. Imagine if our rumoured £15 budget had £9m + £8m + £3m. That would have more than doubled our budget to fill holes in our first XI with the 2 players we need.

As for Jairo, I like him but think he lacks bite, intensity and ultimately pace. For me a midfield of Luka and Jairo would be too slow. Good passer though, and should make an impact as a squad player this season.

Tim 29-07-2018 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thefunkymonk (Post 14357681)
Assume your a finely turned athlete yourself....

My guess is not

Your guess is correct. I could use one Jairoís magic t-shirts..

CP-RJW 29-07-2018 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14357895)
Im not disputing that to honest, although he was poor when he started there against Bristol City in the cup. I am saying that with him making so few appearances (as a result of not being selected) there is certainly an argument that we could have sent the money better.

I was more addressing the ‘even now he is yet to show he is good enough as a central midfielder in the PL.’ In Hodgson’s system, only two central midfielders are needed. The injury crisis didn’t affect Luka, or Macca (although I know he started wide at times), and only injured Cabaye for a few games. So it’s not really a surprise that Jairo didn’t get much game time.

November85 29-07-2018 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 14357493)
Sorry fellas, Iím just not seeing it. As for the weight gain, itís evident for everyone to see..

I just assumed he's trying to bulk up to cope with the premier league.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 29-07-2018 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CP-RJW (Post 14357937)
I was more addressing the Ďeven now he is yet to show he is good enough as a central midfielder in the PL.í In Hodgsonís system, only two central midfielders are needed. The injury crisis didnít affect Luka, or Macca (although I know he started wide at times), and only injured Cabaye for a few games. So itís not really a surprise that Jairo didnít get much game time.

We cant say from three PL starts that he is good enough playing there at this level, can we? Needs to do it a lot more often to say that.

Garfy 29-07-2018 05:03 PM

Only watched the first half yesterday when he was playing and thought his passing was good. Listened to the after match interview with Wilf and he mentioned how Jimmy Mac was still adding to his game yet some on here have given up on Jairo at 22 years of age because the whole team started last season poorly.

Nostrils 29-07-2018 05:07 PM

He's looked decent in all of our pre-season games and considering his age, he's a very good prospect. At this stage I wouldn't want him starting every game, but the odd one here and there, cups and to help finish games off he'll gain more experience and confidence. I think he'll play a lot more often this season though.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 29-07-2018 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostrils (Post 14357975)
He's looked decent in all of our pre-season games and considering his age, he's a very good prospect. At this stage I wouldn't want him starting every game, but the odd one here and there, cups and to help finish games off he'll gain more experience and confidence. I think he'll play a lot more often this season though.

I was certainly encouraged by what I say from him yesterday but obviously we have to take the standard of opposition into account.

CP-RJW 29-07-2018 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14357958)
We cant say from three PL starts that he is good enough playing there at this level, can we? Needs to do it a lot more often to say that.

He’s shown he’s good enough so far. The question is if he can do it consistently, and that’s what he hadn’t had the chance to prove.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 29-07-2018 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CP-RJW (Post 14358029)
Heís shown heís good enough so far. The question is if he can do it consistently, and thatís what he hadnít had the chance to prove.

Yep, I accept that but I guess you also have wonder why Roy was so reluctant to use him even as a sub in games last season. In fact he wasn't even making the bench towards the season's end.

bigend1 29-07-2018 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Hedgehog (Post 14357717)
Basing your opinion of a player on what a few teenagers say on Twitter is not going to end well.

West Ham also told us we had overpaid for Tomkins etc etc etc...

Agreed. I didnít base my opinion on that. Youíve quoted one sentence of my post

bigend1 29-07-2018 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin H (Post 14357754)
So exactly how many games have you seen him play at CB then? One?

Iím not slagging him off, Iíve said heís been improving and has potential. Iím increasingly positive about him but think it would be a mistake to rely on him being good enough this season.

Youíve questioned me in quite an aggressive way... almost suggests you know better. What did he play? One? Canít remember but he was awful. Obviously weak in the air to the point that wasnít a bad game, he just is in this league. Ajax fans donít rate him. 2 managers have selected a very very limited kelly ahead of him. Weíve seen his performances improve in Cm.... exactly why do you think the evidence suggests anything other than he isnít up to it at cb?

My point wasnít slagging off ridewald quite the opposite. It was wondering why anyone sucks fhe cock off frank for a signing that might turn out to be ok after flopping. The only people that usually find a reason to praise frank after that on here are those that look for anything to abuse parish

Martin H 29-07-2018 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigend1 (Post 14358204)
Iím not slagging him off, Iíve said heís been improving and has potential. Iím increasingly positive about him but think it would be a mistake to rely on him being good enough this season.

Youíve questioned me in quite an aggressive way... almost suggests you know better. What did he play? One? Canít remember but he was awful. Obviously weak in the air to the point that wasnít a bad game, he just is in this league. Ajax fans donít rate him. 2 managers have selected a very very limited kelly ahead of him. Weíve seen his performances improve in Cm.... exactly why do you think the evidence suggests anything other than he isnít up to it at cb?

My point wasnít slagging off ridewald quite the opposite. It was wondering why anyone sucks fhe cock off frank for a signing that might turn out to be ok after flopping. The only people that usually find a reason to praise frank after that on here are those that look for anything to abuse parish

LOL - how on earth is this aggressive?

Quote:

ĎSo exactly how many games have you seen him play at CB then? One?í
TBH I donít really understand how saying he is awful isnít slagging him off either but canít be a***d.

red&blue_moomin 29-07-2018 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14358035)
Yep, I accept that but I guess you also have wonder why Roy was so reluctant to use him even as a sub in games last season. In fact he wasn't even making the bench towards the season's end.

I'm sorry but that's patently bullshit!

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jair.../0?saison=2017
He was not in the match day squad for three matches out of the last 24 we played. Yeahhhhhh he couldn't make the bench...........he missed two of the last 10 matches.......

Because Luka, Yohan and Jimmy were all fit most of the time FFS it's not a slight on the kid if three senior international players get picked ahead of him :wallbash: any one with half a brain would do that. He was 21 just moved to a foreign country with not much English. You listen to him now and he's pretty much fluent. Want do you want experienced players with 100s of appearances or young prospects, it's something different every ten minutes at the moment. The club can not ******* win with some of you lot.


He made four 90 minute starts, 8 odd appearances as sub all in the second half of the season and it was often to shore things up in the last 10/15 minutes exactly what you'd do with one of your second choice midfielders when one of the first 11 ones goes off. Has it occured to you that Roy likes to slowly integrate young players not chuck them in and wait for them so sink. His hand was forced with AWB and as soon as Ward was fit he dropped Aaron (inexplicably, but it tells you Roy prizes experience in defensive positions) and the only way he got back in was Ward getting injured again.

He'll play more and more as he gets older and more settled.

Excowboy 29-07-2018 09:43 PM

I like that he's got plenty of preseason minutes and that it's settled he's a DM for us. Means he can work on his craft and develop around this strengths and weaknesses.

I don't want to get drawn into this whole baggy shirt debate but it does seem he's a bit more bulky and less mobile than he could be, which removes the possibility of him playing wide and getting game time that way. it also means he's less of a candidate to come off the bench and chase the opposition down for 20 mins like Macca does.

Something tells me next year will be the breakthrough season for Jairo if he stays with us - it'll take a while for him to get enough game time to properly development when he's not first choice, but I think there's a solid player in there.

red&blue_moomin 29-07-2018 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excowboy (Post 14358352)
I like that he's got plenty of preseason minutes and that it's settled he's a DM for us. Means he can work on his craft and develop around this strengths and weaknesses.

I don't want to get drawn into this whole baggy shirt debate but it does seem he's a bit more bulky and less mobile than he could be, which removes the possibility of him playing wide and getting game time that way. it also means he's less of a candidate to come off the bench and chase the opposition down for 20 mins like Macca does.

Something tells me next year will be the breakthrough season for Jairo if he stays with us - it'll take a while for him to get enough game time to properly development when he's not first choice, but I think there's a solid player in there.

Right then so where's this bulk then (pic from Sweden training camp)

https://www.cpfc.co.uk/siteassets/im...1-33.jpg/Large

Unless he's managed to double his body weight in two weeks?


PS sorry about this but this he's fat, bulky etc rubbish has got to stop. You can think he's not very good and a waste of money (don't agree at all long term or even in the medium term) but come on enough of the #fakenews please.

Riley 29-07-2018 10:37 PM

#cakenews

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 29-07-2018 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red&blue_moomin (Post 14358325)
I'm sorry but that's patently bullshit!

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jair.../0?saison=2017
He was not in the match day squad for three matches out of the last 24 we played. Yeahhhhhh he couldn't make the bench...........he missed two of the last 10 matches.......

Because Luka, Yohan and Jimmy were all fit most of the time FFS it's not a slight on the kid if three senior international players get picked ahead of him :wallbash: any one with half a brain would do that. He was 21 just moved to a foreign country with not much English. You listen to him now and he's pretty much fluent. Want do you want experienced players with 100s of appearances or young prospects, it's something different every ten minutes at the moment. The club can not ******* win with some of you lot.


He made four 90 minute starts, 8 odd appearances as sub all in the second half of the season and it was often to shore things up in the last 10/15 minutes exactly what you'd do with one of your second choice midfielders when one of the first 11 ones goes off. Has it occured to you that Roy likes to slowly integrate young players not chuck them in and wait for them so sink. His hand was forced with AWB and as soon as Ward was fit he dropped Aaron (inexplicably, but it tells you Roy prizes experience in defensive positions) and the only way he got back in was Ward getting injured again.

He'll play more and more as he gets older and more settled.

Once Loftus-Cheek and others returned from injury, he wasn't making the bench. That patently isn't bullshit. And I wasn't talking about the last 24 games of the season, I said "towards the end of season"... Which was the last few games. I didn't say it was for lots of games or a specific number of games or anything like that... just that he didn't make the bench towards the end of the season. Which is factually correct.

You also say it was because Jimmy, Schlupp etc. were fit, and yes, that's true but also ignore that fact Lee was also selected on the bench ahead of him. A player we had no intention of keeping was ahead of him despite the fact there were several other players of his type in the squad already (so he wasn't selected over Jairo just because there weren't enough attacking/ wide players in the match day squads).

And the club can't win?!! What you on about? You're talking nonsense. All I said was that it was noticeable that he wasn't making the bench when we had everyone fit. How does that mean the club can't win?!! I'm not criticising anyone with that! Just saying it was noticeable.

Anyway, seriously, what's with the aggression of calling other people's posts bullshit so quickly?!! What's with the insults?!! I'm not going to say you haven't got half a brain in return because it's just childish but I can and did see he wasn't making the bench when all our players were fit.. which was true. So why get personal and throw around such comments? Why not just say you disagree with me or that it should be considered in the context of more experienced players returning?! Why not just be polite to fellow fans and discuss things?!

That is the kind of reaction that just makes this place unpleasant at times. People just post an opinion on something, or in this case just make an observation about it and get fired at with an aggressive, insulting response. You aren't the only one at all but it just makes the BBS all the worse for it.

red&blue_moomin 30-07-2018 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14358423)
Once Loftus-Cheek and others returned from injury, he wasn't making the bench. That patently isn't bullshit. And I wasn't talking about the last 24 games of the season, I said "towards the end of season"... Which was the last few games.

You then say Jimmy, Schlupp etc. were fit, yes, but ignore that fact Lee was also selected on the bench ahead of him. A player we had no intention of keeping was ahead of him despite the fact there were several other players of his type in the squad already (so he wasn't selected over Jairo just because there weren't enough attacking/ wide players in the match day squads).

And the club can't win?!! What you on about? You're talking nonsense. All I said was that it was noticeable that he wasn't making the bench when we had everyone fit. How does that mean the club can't win?!! I'm not criticising anyone with that! Just saying it was noticeable.

Anyway, seriously, what's with the aggression of calling other people's posts bullshit so quickly?!! What's with the insults?!! I'm not going to say you haven't got half a brain in return because it's just childish but I can and did see he wasn't making the bench when all our players were fit.. which was true. So why get personal and throw around such comments? Why not just say you disagree with me or that it should be considered in the context of more experienced players returning?! Why not just be polite to fellow fans and discuss things?!

That is the kind of reaction that just makes this place unpleasant at times. People just post an opinion on something, or in this case just make an observation about it and get fired at with an aggressive response. You aren't the only one at all but it just makes the BBS all the worse for it.


I know you think he's shite and have written him off based on one crap performance in which the whole team played like dog shite. That's my opinion.


But you said he wasn't making the bench at the end of the season, you're using opinion as fact. He was not in the match day squad for three matches of the last 24 games that we played. That's from before December to the end of the season, if you want to be really picky he missed two of the last 8 matches of the season............If you'd said at the start of the season he could barely get on the bench or in the middle of the season you'd have been factually correct. Like this stupid thing about him being fat and unfit. I mean there's pictures of him in training kit looking completely normal footballer sized and yet images of him in a shirt thats clearly massive for him and he's being accused of being fat, unfit unprofessional etc etc.

I even provided you with the actual evidence to look at. Ok I could have said you're wrong but the statement you made was completely and utterly untrue. RLC returned for the last 8 matches of the season. CYL was on the bench for the last 8 matches so Jairo was sat next to him for six of them (guess what CYL missed three matches of the last 24 also.......), Jairo was nearly always involved in our match day squads for longer than the second half of the season in the same way that CYL was.

I'm getting completely fed up with the slagging of young prospects that the club have signed or are now looking at bringing through from the academy after all the bitching on here about wasting £20M+ on players. So when the club do go and do just that what happens, so far Kai Kai, Soroth, Jach, Jairo and Jonny have all been written off as complete wastes of time and money.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash 30-07-2018 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red&blue_moomin (Post 14358434)
I know you think he's shite and have written him off based on one crap performance in which the whole team played like dog shite. That's my opinion . But you said he wasn't making the bench at the end of the season, you're using opinion as fact. He was not in the match day squad for three matches of the last 24 games that we played. That's from before December to the end of the season, if you want to be really picky he missed two of the last 8 matches of the season............If you'd said at the start of the season he could barely get on the bench or in the middle of the season you'd have been factually correct.

I even provided you with the actual evidence to look at. Ok I could have said you're wrong but the statement was completely and utterly untrue.

Haha... It's not completely and utterly unture. I didn't say it was for any number of games, just that towards the end of the season when everyone was fit, he wasn't selected on the bench which is a fact. You would be right to point out it was only for a few games, but that doesn't change the fact what I typed was also correct.

I don't think I've ever said he is shite! When and where have I written him off? I have said recently on this thread and elsewhere that he has had a decent pre-season (although I am also remembering those weren't against Premier League standard opponents). He could still come good for us and I hope he does. And for the record, my doubts about him are based on more than one performance. Am I not allowed to reasonably express my doubts about a player's ability? That isn't the same as "slagging off" a young player. Where have I ever done that? It's really not my style to.

But you are right you could have responded your opinion without the insults.

red&blue_moomin 30-07-2018 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14358436)
Haha... It's not completely and utterly unture. I didn't say it was for any number of games, just that towards the end of the season when everyone was fit, he wasn't selected on the bench which is a fact. You would be right to point out it was only for a few games, but that doesn't change the fact what I typed was also correct.

I don't think I've ever said he is shite! When and where have I written him off? I have said recently on this thread and elsewhere that he has had a decent pre-season (although I am also remembering those weren't against Premier League standard opponents). He could still come good for us and I hope he does. And for the record, my doubts about him are based on more than one performance. Am I not allowed to reasonably express my doubts about a player's ability? That isn't the same as "slagging off" a young player. Where have I ever done that? It's really not my style to.

But you are right you could have responded your opinion without the insults.

You've tried to intimate that Roy wasn't picking him for the match day squads. I've just shown you the evidence that he only missed 16% of our match days in the second half of the season, 20% of the run in to the end of the season (commonly taken to be the last 10) and was sat next to the player on the bench that apparently replaced him for eight of those 10 matches, there's not many players who play all 39 matches in a season.

KingCoppell 30-07-2018 01:17 AM

He was our best player against city at home.

Palace43 30-07-2018 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie McGoldrick's tash (Post 14357761)
As you have gone for that patronising tone, I will too.

You do realise he was signed last season? And at that point central midfield was NOT the position we needed someone for? And that he was actually signed as a left sided centre back in a back 3? Despite a huge injury crisis he still only started 4 games last season and was only used as a sub on 8 ocassions?

So, yes, there is certainly a valid argument we could have spent it better as we went forward with only 2 goal keepers and started the season with only one recognised striker. Moreover, he still, even now has yet to show he is good enough as a central midfielder in the PL. I agree that he looked decent yesterday but we were playing a poor Championship side.

Sorry, I didnít mean to aggravate! Merely being a pedant, and was surprised by the statement.

My point still stands though, while he may have been bought as a centre back, I think none of us see him anywhere near that position now, and in actual fact itís turned out to be money well spent. Heís young, got great attributes which can only be improved on and has resale value.

Thereís no point looking at Frank de Boers tenure as an indicator to his value to us as a team right now. Around 10 million or whatever it was last season has worked out really well for us going into this season to be honest.

Heís done well whenever heís came on and hasnít looked out of place. Heíll get more chances this season and I think heíll come good.

Again, sorry for Ďpatronisingí, wasnít meant like that... tones are hard to translate over text.


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.