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  #161  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jmemour View Post
I do not trust Labour to stick to their manifesto. I think they’re attempting to sell themselves as social democrats when their instincts are far, far more revolutionary.

This is a guy that sides up with the likes of Maduro and Chavez. I’m not the one being fooled.
Sigh.
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  #162  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
True but with the number in education the number of Under 18s paying tax is relatively low. More will be paying NI but even full time at minimum wage for their age or apprentice wages they are below that limit too i think.

I think if people suggested 16 year olds were being sent into adult prisons for offences committed after their 16th birthday there would be less people agreeing with it.
Why equate the two? Let younger people become more enfranchised?
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  #163  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Why equate the two? Let younger people become more enfranchised?
Why equate giving 16/17 year old the decision on who should lead the country and making them responsible for their decisions at the same age?

You don't think that is reasonable?

Its also why they are not allowed to take the decision to join the armed forces.
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  #164  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:55 PM
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Let's get there first. Current arguments are over the date and whether 16 year olds can vote. Seems to me this is mixing up referendum ask with standard GE ask.


Would be good if Parliament could actually make a ******* decision.
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  #165  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:58 PM
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"The key questions being asked in Westminster are: will Lindsay Hoyle, the deputy speaker, allow MPs to vote on amendments calling for the franchise to be extended to 16- and 17-year olds and EU citizens and, if he does, will either of them pass?
Those two factors will determine whether Boris Johnson gets his wish for a pre-Christmas general election. Why? Because the government has said that, if either amendment passes, they will scrap the bill that would trigger an early election."

The government would seriously scrap the election rather than let people living here permanently in a 'settled status' organised by this government vote? What utter bastards.
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  #166  
Old 29-10-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
How do people wanting to extend the franchise to 16-17 year olds feel about them being sent into adult prisons at the same age rather than at 18?

If we consider them minors for for some things should they have the vote? If they have the vote because that are old enough to make the decision should their other decisions and actions also face the same penalty as others?
Classic Tory smokescreens. It's gone well in Scotland, and no you don't have to be treated equally on all things at that age. If you can legally have a child and join the army then you can have a vote.
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  #167  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Why equate giving 16/17 year old the decision on who should lead the country and making them responsible for their decisions at the same age?

You don't think that is reasonable?

Its also why they are not allowed to take the decision to join the armed forces.
Yes one should also be ready to be sent into a war zone to get the vote. It should be people over 65 that don’t get the vote. Their prejudices shouldn’t be destroying the futures of the young.
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  #168  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
"The key questions being asked in Westminster are: will Lindsay Hoyle, the deputy speaker, allow MPs to vote on amendments calling for the franchise to be extended to 16- and 17-year olds and EU citizens and, if he does, will either of them pass?
Those two factors will determine whether Boris Johnson gets his wish for a pre-Christmas general election. Why? Because the government has said that, if either amendment passes, they will scrap the bill that would trigger an early election."

The government would seriously scrap the election rather than let people living here permanently in a 'settled status' organised by this government vote? What utter bastards.


Denying the will of the people!!!!
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  #169  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:01 PM
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Are over 65’s ready to be sent to war? No? Take the vote away.
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  #170  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:02 PM
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2019 General Election thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
True but with the number in education the number of Under 18s paying tax is relatively low. More will be paying NI but even full time at minimum wage for their age or apprentice wages they are below that limit too i think.



I think if people suggested 16 year olds were being sent into adult prisons for offences committed after their 16th birthday there would be less people agreeing with it.


Are there more 16/17 year olds in young offenders prisons than those that work and pay tax?
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  #171  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Classic Tory smokescreens. It's gone well in Scotland, and no you don't have to be treated equally on all things at that age. If you can legally have a child and join the army then you can have a vote.
You cannot at 16 take the decision alone to join the army.
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  #172  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe85 View Post
A May landslide would had this country dancing to a Hard Brexit.

Corbyn’s (relative) success at the last election is why we are where we are - which is a lot better than having already left with May’s deal.

The opposition has control of the house, inflicting historic defeats on both May and nonce-face.
A May landslide would have led to her withdrawal bill. Described at the time as a soft Brexit.

Corbyn's success (or May's abject failure) opened the door to the factional shit show we are now seeing. She couldn't rely on the support of her own party, nor could Boris, nor it would seem can Corbyn.

And inflicting historic defeats is all well and good but kinda ignores the inconvenient fact that this perpetuates the continued deadlock which will eventually mean a hard Brexit. There has to be a historic victory agreeing an alternative path as no deal remains the default and is where we are headed at the end of January absent an alternative consensus.
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  #173  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
How do people wanting to extend the franchise to 16-17 year olds feel about them being sent into adult prisons at the same age rather than at 18?

If we consider them minors for for some things should they have the vote? If they have the vote because that are old enough to make the decision should their other decisions and actions also face the same penalty as others?
I don't think 18, 19, 20 year old should be sent to adult prisons. There are different ages of maturity for different things, not a one size fits all.
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  #174  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDawg View Post
A May landslide would have led to her withdrawal bill. Described at the time as a soft Brexit.

Corbyn's success (or May's abject failure) opened the door to the factional shit show we are now seeing. She couldn't rely on the support of her own party, nor could Boris, nor it would seem can Corbyn.

And inflicting historic defeats is all well and good but kinda ignores the inconvenient fact that this perpetuates the continued deadlock which will eventually mean a hard Brexit. There has to be a historic victory agreeing an alternative path as no deal remains the default and is where we are headed at the end of January absent an alternative consensus.
Fair point.

Although this current “shitshow” is better than any Brexit proposed so far as the door to staying is still open.
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  #175  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Yes one should also be ready to be sent into a war zone to get the vote. It should be people over 65 that don’t get the vote. Their prejudices shouldn’t be destroying the futures of the young.
The standard army retirement age is 55. If we disenfranchised over 55s the Daily Mail would become obsolete overnight.
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  #176  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by chelmsfordeagle View Post
I don't think 18, 19, 20 year old should be sent to adult prisons. There are different ages of maturity for different things, not a one size fits all.
I would agree but then i would say a lot of 16 year olds should be nowhere near a ballot box!
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  #177  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
You cannot at 16 take the decision alone to join the army.
I know but you can join. And you can join at 17.

So do you support EU citizens getting the vote now if at all possible?
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  #178  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
I would agree but then i would say a lot of 16 year olds should be nowhere near a ballot box!
Most would be far better than you.
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  #179  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
I would agree but then i would say a lot of 16 year olds should be nowhere near a ballot box!
I honestly don't know any 16 year olds. Not one. If I think of myself when I was 16, I was pretty ignorant (yes, little has changed!) but definitely not more ignorant than many over 18s. Picking an age is always going to be slightly unbalanced and random. Overall I am OK with 16 and 17 year olds getting the vote. I think they have a big enough stake in society and enough mental capabilities that their opinion should be counted.
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  #180  
Old 29-10-2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
I know but you can join. And you can join at 17.

So do you support EU citizens getting the vote now if at all possible?
Probably not.

My understanding and please correct me if i am wrong is that none of the countries from which the EU nationals come from would allow British nations living in that EU nation to vote in a national election?

I would need more information as to why we should be very different from the rest of Europe when the voting rights are not reciprocated. Is there anything in the withdrawal bill about this for example?
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