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View Poll Results: Penalty - Yes or No?
Yes it was penalty, referee was correct. 47 47.96%
No penalty, ref was wrong. 51 52.04%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 16-07-2018, 03:34 PM
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WC Final 2018 - Was it a penalty?

Good article on the BBC about 'that incident'.

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I have to say I was surprised at the time by the universal view from the BBC pundits (Shearer, Ferdinand, etc), that the referee had got it wrong. So it will interesting to see what the BBs thinks.

For me it was a clear penalty and the referee was spot on.
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Old 16-07-2018, 03:44 PM
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There was definitely a movement down with his hand as the ball came past the France player - whether it was a deliberate or involuntary movement I don't think anyone can say. If it was a deliberate movement, it was quite possibly to try and get his arm down in case the French player made contact and flicked it across the goal.

I think it shows why they need to think about how the handball rule works going forward, as the whole "deliberate act" is open to so much interpretation. I would change it to whether or not it stops the opposition gaining an advantage, but don't know how you'd manage that with something a foot away in the box that is accidental.

What I would say though, is that the referee definitely got the decision wrong - he gave a goal kick when at the very least it should have been a corner. Interesting side point - if he reviewed it and didn't give a penalty, could he have switched it to a corner, having watched the replay?
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Old 16-07-2018, 03:47 PM
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Never a penalty and the free kick for the first goal wasn't a free kick either. **** the French.
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Old 16-07-2018, 03:51 PM
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I'm still not 100% sure. Basically, you would want them given for you, but not against.

And I'm still waiting for the retrospective action on Griezmann for his provocative "Loser" dance to the Croat supporters. And his dive to win the non-free kick for the first goal.
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Old 16-07-2018, 03:52 PM
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It is more a VAR discussion generally, but it's similar to rugby union replays on whether a player should be carded - for this sort of thing, the ref should make the final decision on real time speed not in some sort of super slow mo. Look at every angle going but slowing it down gives a false impression.

The answer is it should not have been given. It may well have been a deliberate handball, but the ref didn't give it and as seen by here and elsewhere (and his own time spent looking and re-looking), it wasn't that 'obvious' enough to overturn his decision.
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Old 16-07-2018, 03:56 PM
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Whatever. But it was a pleasure seeing the reaction of Lovren and Vida when the penalty was awarded.

And Mandzukic's own goal? A classic.
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Old 16-07-2018, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davech View Post
And I'm still waiting for the retrospective action on Griezmann for his provocative "Loser" dance to the Croat supporters.
It was not a provocative dance to the Croat supporters. He's been doing it for a while now. He just goes to the nearest corner and does it! Pathetic dance yes, provocative no!
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Old 16-07-2018, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruskin Old Boy View Post
Whatever. But it was a pleasure seeing the reaction of Lovren and Vida when the penalty was awarded.

And Mandzukic's own goal? A classic.
True.

But I was also surprised at how certain Shearer was that it wasn't a penalty. It looked to me like a deliberate movement with the hand. I don't believe any ref would have spotted it real time because of the position of the players.
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Old 16-07-2018, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davech View Post
I'm still not 100% sure. Basically, you would want them given for you, but not against.

And I'm still waiting for the retrospective action on Griezmann for his provocative "Loser" dance to the Croat supporters. And his dive to win the non-free kick for the first goal.
Isn't it a Fortnite emote? That's the impression I got from my kids.
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Old 16-07-2018, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabbott View Post
It was not a provocative dance to the Croat supporters. He's been doing it for a while now. He just goes to the nearest corner and does it! Pathetic dance yes, provocative no!
Can a dance be provocative simply because it is so crap?

Yes, I say. He should make an effort, its the World Cup FFS. I hope FIFA ban him and fine the French FA a seven figure sum.
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Old 16-07-2018, 04:20 PM
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My problem with it was I didnt feel that the hand was in any kind was in any kind of natural position. On balance I thought it was a poor call. . Bigges grip or me is that once again VAR has been used on a marginal call when it was said that wouldnt be the case. I hope their will be a massive review of hiw its meant to work in future
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Old 16-07-2018, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabbott View Post
It was not a provocative dance to the Croat supporters. He's been doing it for a while now. He just goes to the nearest corner and does it! Pathetic dance yes, provocative no!
I do not follow European football, so thanks for the clarification. But surely there is no point in doing it to your own supporters, whilst it will only wind up the opposition. Or am I missing something?
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Old 16-07-2018, 04:28 PM
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Isn't it a Fortnite emote? That's the impression I got from my kids.
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Old 16-07-2018, 04:32 PM
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I do not follow European football, so thanks for the clarification. But surely there is no point in doing it to your own supporters, whilst it will only wind up the opposition. Or am I missing something?
As I said, he just runs to the nearest corner regardless of whether it's his fans or opposition fans. It's probably not worth the bother to run the length of the pitch just to do that in front of his fans!
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Old 16-07-2018, 04:41 PM
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As I said, he just runs to the nearest corner regardless of whether it's his fans or opposition fans. It's probably not worth the bother to run the length of the pitch just to do that in front of his fans!
Fair enough
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Old 16-07-2018, 05:34 PM
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Heard somewhere that Collina had let it be known after the first round that if it hit a hand in the area it would be treated as hand ball. If thats the way this law was being interpreted, fair enough.
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Old 16-07-2018, 05:36 PM
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Heard somewhere that Collina had let it be known after the first round that if it hit a hand in the area it would be treated as hand ball. If thats the way this law was being interpreted, fair enough.
Who would be brave enough to argue with Collina when he fixes you with those eyes?
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Old 16-07-2018, 05:36 PM
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Heard somewhere that Collina had let it be known after the first round that if it hit a hand in the area it would be treated as hand ball. If thats the way this law was being interpreted, fair enough.
It's completely unfair.There are all kinds of ways that you can accidentally handball it.To penalise a player for it is absurd.
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Old 16-07-2018, 05:49 PM
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Heard somewhere that Collina had let it be known after the first round that if it hit a hand in the area it would be treated as hand ball. If thats the way this law was being interpreted, fair enough.
So attackers in the area should be trying to hit the defenders hands or arms with the ball to win an easy penalty.

In my view penalties should not be given for accidental handball except in extreme circumstances. If there is no intent on the part of the defender to handle the ball and he didn't have time to get the hand out of the way then it should be deemed accidental.

It was a crucial decision in the world cup final and swayed the game towards France when the defender had no intention of handling it for me play should have been waved on.

I can understand there are circumstances when a definitive goal scoring opportunity is lost due to an accidental but significant hand ball so there is a grey area open to interpretation but in my view the incident in the final was not sufficient for a penalty to be given.

The Ref's do need to make their interpretation of this and they were split on Sundays decision. A directive needs to come from above as to what is and what isn't a penalty when such a grey area exists.

At least with the use of VAR we have the opportunity to see the incident several times before making the call, it was a shame on Sunday he saw it several times and still gave the wrong call in my view.
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Old 16-07-2018, 07:58 PM
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The only time you see a ‘deliberate’ handball is when someone tries to stop a goal going in.
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