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View Poll Results: Which one
Conservatives 33 16.34%
Labour 61 30.20%
Lib Dem 74 36.63%
Green 9 4.46%
Brexit 12 5.94%
Someone else 1 0.50%
Moo = canít be bothered/spoil ballot paper 12 5.94%
Voters: 202. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 04-09-2019, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Things are moving so rapidly at the moment, it is pointless to make a choice now. As others have said above it nearly always is tactical, and in the heat of Brexit, this will be even more apparent.

There could be a Tory/ Brexit party alliance, and an equal and opposite anti Brexit Alliance, if that happens.

The latest poll before Johnson's humiliation yesterday were showing a significant Tory lead, but I suspect this will change when manifestos are published. Theresa May called an election thinking she would easily win when she had a massive poll lead, and Johnson is obviously thinking the same now, despite it backfiring for her. Interesting times.
However a key part of the May's campaign was an attack on the core support. That with her refusal to be seen in public did for her.

Will be interesting to see how much the Tories have learned from that and how publicly visible Boris is in an upcoming election.
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  #22  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Worksop Palace View Post
So in other words you want to rip up the original vote ? You’re as bad as the politicians
Or replay a deeply flawed non binding referendum won by Russian interference, Cambridge analytica, Farage’s racism, lies on the side of a bus, Aaron Banks’s dodgy money, Leave.eu overspending, easiest deal in history, non no deal campaigning?

You’re as bad as the Daily Mail.
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  #23  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post
Or replay a deeply flawed non binding referendum won by Russian interference, Cambridge analytica, Farageís racism, lies on the side of a bus, Aaron Banksís dodgy money, Leave.eu overspending, easiest deal in history, non no deal campaigning?

Youíre as bad as the Daily Mail.
Daily Mail ? Never read it mate

I just want simple things in life mate. Like our elected officials to carry out the will of the people. Which theyíve singular failed to do. Itís not difficult to understand (I voted remain btw)

And for Ben Stokes to continue to be Englandís best cricketer
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  #24  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:04 AM
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I'll probably drive 100 miles back to redcar to vote there. And then when I get there I'll probably write a few choice words for my MP Anna Turley and render my ballot spoilt. Yes I know I could postal vote and I know I could vote in Sheffield instead but..

Dont think I can vote Labour right now but could never vote Tory and very doubtful to ever vote Brexit Party. But if my denial of one usual Labour vote helps Anna lose her seat I'd be very happy with that...
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  #25  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:36 AM
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I don't care who wins as long as Boris is toast by the time it's over.
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  #26  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:08 AM
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Would 5 years of corbyn be more damaging than no deal brexit?! I donít know

I actually donít think boris would have ended up with no deal if left alone but this cluster **** means he probably will going forward. I do believe the threat of no deal is/was the best way to get a deal. Mays deal is awful and I fear it will be that or no deal and/or corbyn.

Donít trust boris. His stubborn side would probably screw us all and run for undermining his moment.

What a terrible selection of crap options we have. I thought the unbelievable vote to leave was the low point. This is insane
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  #27  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigend1 View Post
Would 5 years of corbyn be more damaging than no deal brexit?! I donít know

I actually donít think boris would have ended up with no deal if left alone but this cluster **** means he probably will going forward. I do believe the threat of no deal is/was the best way to get a deal. Mays deal is awful and I fear it will be that or no deal and/or corbyn.

Donít trust boris. His stubborn side would probably screw us all and run for undermining his moment.

What a terrible selection of crap options we have. I thought the unbelievable vote to leave was the low point. This is insane
Pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter
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  #28  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigend1 View Post
Would 5 years of corbyn be more damaging than no deal brexit?! I donít know

I actually donít think boris would have ended up with no deal if left alone but this cluster **** means he probably will going forward. I do believe the threat of no deal is/was the best way to get a deal. Mays deal is awful and I fear it will be that or no deal and/or corbyn.

Donít trust boris. His stubborn side would probably screw us all and run for undermining his moment.

What a terrible selection of crap options we have. I thought the unbelievable vote to leave was the low point. This is insane
Why? What elements do you disagree with and how would you change it in a workable fashion?
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  #29  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:22 AM
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My local Tory mp is on a majority of about 50 votes, will be gone at nxt election and he knows it
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  #30  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigend1 View Post
Would 5 years of corbyn be more damaging than no deal brexit?! I donít know

I actually donít think boris would have ended up with no deal if left alone but this cluster **** means he probably will going forward. I do believe the threat of no deal is/was the best way to get a deal. Mays deal is awful and I fear it will be that or no deal and/or corbyn.

Donít trust boris. His stubborn side would probably screw us all and run for undermining his moment.

What a terrible selection of crap options we have. I thought the unbelievable vote to leave was the low point. This is insane
If Corbyn wins I doubt it will be with a majority. So the really left wing policies wonít go through but we would likely get another referendum.
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  #31  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Why? What elements do you disagree with and how would you change it in a workable fashion?
The back stop is a never ending surrender to eu control. They let us out when they want.

We pay the eu a fortune. We stay tied to eu control but we have no say. No influence in how things go forward.

Don’t get me wrong I don’t want no deal. I don’t want brexit. I could not believe we got a leave vote. In fact a referendum at all was insane. Let millions of people who haven’t got a clue about anything involved make the biggest decision we have!

But.... a half arsed compromise is not the answer. All that does is give us far less benefit with almost all of the cost. No deal is devastating, probably for a generation but deals will come and it will be repaired. Mays deal is a shit deal we can’t leave. It’s like capping the U.K. as an eu dependency, thrown the odd treat but we speak when spoken to and know our place.

This is all awful. We have somehow got into a shit mess. An insane referendum that’s probably shown the world the danger of giving the stupid masses control based on Twitter comments. It’s got worse... infighting and indecision now sees us circling the bowl.

I don’t know what to do now. It’s either no brexit or leave on the 31st. Removing the threat of no deal is just throwing us back to the mercy of the eu, who are sick of us.

Remain>good deal>no deal>delay>Shit deal>Corbyn
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  #32  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:35 AM
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Stellavista Stellavista is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyTKid View Post
If Corbyn wins I doubt it will be with a majority. So the really left wing policies wonít go through but we would likely get another referendum.
I agree with that. I think there's a strong possibility of a Labour/LibDem coalition. I don't think it would necessarily be a comfortable one, but it would at least have more of a social conscience. Johnson only has himself to blame. Going for Cummings' scorched earth approach has been calamitous for him and his party.
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  #33  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigend1 View Post
The back stop is a never ending surrender to eu control. They let us out when they want.

We pay the eu a fortune. We stay tied to eu control but we have no say. No influence in how things go forward.

Don’t get me wrong I don’t want no deal. I don’t want brexit. I could not believe we got a leave vote. In fact a referendum at all was insane. Let millions of people who haven’t got a clue about anything involved make the biggest decision we have!

But.... a half arsed compromise is not the answer. All that does is give us far less benefit with almost all of the cost. No deal is devastating, probably for a generation but deals will come and it will be repaired. Mays deal is a shit deal we can’t leave. It’s like capping the U.K. as an eu dependency, thrown the odd treat but we speak when spoken to and know our place.

This is all awful. We have somehow got into a shit mess. An insane referendum that’s probably shown the world the danger of giving the stupid masses control based on Twitter comments. It’s got worse... infighting and indecision now sees us circling the bowl.

I don’t know what to do now. It’s either no brexit or leave on the 31st. Removing the threat of no deal is just throwing us back to the mercy of the eu, who are sick of us.

Remain>good deal>no deal>delay>Shit deal>Corbyn
1: It is only never ending if we don't deliver the tech we have said is available. However nothing is never ending. Parliament could just vote to leave the backstop and they could because they are sovereign.

2: We pay what we have agreed to pay during our tenure and for the pensions of our representatives. Seems fair enough to me or do you think the EU should pay for Farage's pension and for commitments we made while in?

3: What would the EU be able to dictate to us once we leave the backstop (which we can leave as soon as we produce what we have insisted is easy to produce. We are still insisting the same thing)?

The only deal possible would have had to involve concessions due to the Good Friday Agreement. No deal breaks the GFA - if we can do that why can't we break the backstop?

Last edited by Hpalace; 04-09-2019 at 12:04 PM.
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  #34  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:47 AM
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Anything to keep the Tories / Brexit Party out.

Probably Labour in Croydon North.
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  #35  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:03 AM
Harry Bassett Harry Bassett is offline
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Interesting that some will wait for a manifesto before deciding? was austerity part of a manifesto?

In my opinion the referendum result staggered the politicians because they are so out of touch with society and in particular working people, largely away from the south and London.

So carry on voting for a flawed system which equates to your extreme politics or our extreme politics! I personally would never vote Tory but the whip system used by the Tory party yesterday denied conscience votes and resulted in the loss of their elected roles.

I am not sure how the system can be changed or improved from its current structure except by a "no lies ever" party or "decency for all" party.

Last edited by Harry Bassett; 04-09-2019 at 10:27 AM.
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  #36  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:04 AM
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Likely Labour or the Lib dems.

Never actually voted Labour before, so that could be a first.
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  #37  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:35 AM
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wedgetail wedgetail is offline
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A confirmatory vote on brexit and an election on the same day would be a great idea.
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  #38  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigend1 View Post
The back stop is a never ending surrender to eu control. They let us out when they want.

We pay the eu a fortune. We stay tied to eu control but we have no say. No influence in how things go forward.

Donít get me wrong I donít want no deal. I donít want brexit. I could not believe we got a leave vote. In fact a referendum at all was insane. Let millions of people who havenít got a clue about anything involved make the biggest decision we have!

But.... a half arsed compromise is not the answer. All that does is give us far less benefit with almost all of the cost. No deal is devastating, probably for a generation but deals will come and it will be repaired. Mays deal is a shit deal we canít leave. Itís like capping the U.K. as an eu dependency, thrown the odd treat but we speak when spoken to and know our place.

This is all awful. We have somehow got into a shit mess. An insane referendum thatís probably shown the world the danger of giving the stupid masses control based on Twitter comments. Itís got worse... infighting and indecision now sees us circling the bowl.

I donít know what to do now. Itís either no brexit or leave on the 31st. Removing the threat of no deal is just throwing us back to the mercy of the eu, who are sick of us.

Remain>good deal>no deal>delay>Shit deal>Corbyn
Threatening to self harm as a way to get your way is never a good idea.
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  #39  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wedgetail View Post
Threatening to self harm as a way to get your way is never a good idea.
Of course not. Nothing, NOTHING about Brexit is a good idea.

But when you have no good options refusing to accept reality and chose the least damaging path is just as bad.

I don't know what we should do, I dont claim to. I know we shouldn't be in this position. I know the people charged with sorting this shit out shouldn't be fighting each other for political and personal gain. No deal is an awful idea but rather than ruling it out we should be talking to the EU to find a solution. Not this

This is sinking on the titanic and fighting each other for a space in the life raft that has enough room for all. Ignoring the fact the tide is pulling your only chance in that life raft away while you battle with each other with backs turned
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  #40  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:46 AM
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stevek stevek is offline
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Originally Posted by wedgetail View Post
A confirmatory vote on brexit and an election on the same day would be a great idea.
I'm not sure it's feasible, given the process needed to set up a referendum, but it could be fascinating, particularly if the results conflicted (eg vote to remain in the EU, but Tories win the election).
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