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View Poll Results: Which one
Conservatives 33 16.34%
Labour 61 30.20%
Lib Dem 74 36.63%
Green 9 4.46%
Brexit 12 5.94%
Someone else 1 0.50%
Moo = canít be bothered/spoil ballot paper 12 5.94%
Voters: 202. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bigend1 View Post
I know the people charged with sorting this shit out shouldn't be fighting each other for political and personal gain.
The one set of people you can't (reasonably) accuse of doing that are the Tory rebels. They supported May's deal. And they are sacrificing their political careers to save the country from an act of massive self-harm.
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  #42  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:56 AM
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Maybe, on the basis that whatever happens with Brexit, it's going to be terrible, people should decide their votes on absolutely any and every policy and issue except Brexit.
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  #43  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:00 AM
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Following the expulsions yesterday the Conservative Party no longer represent my political view. Beckenham constituency so it will have to be Lib Dem from now on.

If the expelled Tories and other independents (Lab and Tory) want to get together they would also have a chance of my vote.
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  #44  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
Maybe, on the basis that whatever happens with Brexit, it's going to be terrible, people should decide their votes on absolutely any and every policy and issue except Brexit.
there is a reason why expats opinions are not taken seriously on here...
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  #45  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:31 AM
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Maybe, on the basis that whatever happens with Brexit, it's going to be terrible, people should decide their votes on absolutely any and every policy and issue except Brexit.
No way. Will be voting Lib Dem for that exact reason.
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  #46  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:47 AM
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I think lib dem for me too unless something unexpected happens.
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  #47  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:51 AM
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I would probably vote Labour, but would consider Green if there is a local deal to make them the opposition option. This has happened in a council election, returning a Green councillor, though not 'officially'.

I would find it very hard to vote LibDem and they would never win in my constituency which has historically been a Lab/Con swing seat.
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  #48  
Old 04-09-2019, 02:04 PM
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I would find it very hard to vote LibDem and they would never win in my constituency which has historically been a Lab/Con swing seat.
That's the key issue here - if you don't want the Tories you need to consider what constituency you are voting in.

There's not that many Lab/LD marginals in England. The SNP may well clean up in Scotland (thought they would in 2017, mind you). God knows what is happening in NI.

Wales will be an interesting battleground, but hard to see Lib dems winning all over Wales. Plaid? maybe in some seats.

But sadly for those that don't want to choose between Johnson & Corbyn - in a lot of places, that's your choice.
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  #49  
Old 04-09-2019, 03:12 PM
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Green. Planet earth needs a win.
Looks like the greens and Lib dems may do a deal to swap standing in various areas so as not to split a remain vote. Will be interesting to see if this does happen.
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  #50  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:24 PM
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So who is the counter to Farage?
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  #51  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:45 PM
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There's such a welter of misinformation, disinformation and chicanery. The fact is we've reached a point where no one can really, despite all the 'experts,' say what we should do or what the consequences are of Leaving / Staying are and all objectivity and civility has gone from the debate. I think the main parties are populated by fools. I always assumed I was a lifelong Labour voter but so many of them are so obsessed with SJW politics now that they have turned me off. Nothing will make me vote Tory and I can't forgive the Libs for propping up Tory power and their lies.
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  #52  
Old 04-09-2019, 09:52 PM
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  #53  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:02 PM
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There's such a welter of misinformation, disinformation and chicanery. The fact is we've reached a point where no one can really, despite all the 'experts,' say what we should do or what the consequences are of Leaving / Staying are and all objectivity and civility has gone from the debate. I think the main parties are populated by fools. I always assumed I was a lifelong Labour voter but so many of them are so obsessed with SJW politics now that they have turned me off. Nothing will make me vote Tory and I can't forgive the Libs for propping up Tory power and their lies.
So who does that leave? The Greens? I am with you on your position of Labour and Tories but when the libdems moderated the Tories things were a lot better. I think they will get my vote as I Simply canít vote Labour or Tory. Not that is really counts for much here as the Conservatives have a huge majority
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  #54  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:02 PM
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So who does that leave? The Greens? I am with you on your position of Labour and Tories but when the libdems moderated the Tories things were a lot better. I think they will get my vote as I Simply can’t vote Labour or Tory. Not that is really counts for much here as the Conservatives have a huge majority
I don't know who it leaves. All I do know it that politics in general has become so divisive, tribalistic and mean-spirited that objective debate on almost anything is impossible because the core component of effective debate -listening and giving even the smallest ground on another's points -is now rare indeed. Discussions of Brexit have been swamped by bitter recrimination and dismissal of the political and even moral POV of others and all that's left now are entrenched opinions and know-it-all attitudes. There's no middle ground, everyone is exclusively right and everyone else exclusively wrong ( and fit to be despised ) and I checked out of any real attention to it long ago.

I do still believe we live in a world run by Elites and that there are too many vested, powerful interests to allow a democratic decision to leave ever count but I'm not even sure we should leave anyway and only 'want' to see us leave insomuch as not to make a mockery of a democratic institution such as the referendum. Because of this, I'm disinterested in the conceited argument by Remainers that we should stay because only their minority grasp the 'truth' but, at the same time, I don't pretend ( unlike many ) to have a strong enough grasp of economics ( or a Crystal Palace ball! ) to have any idea whether leaving the EU is a good idea for the country as a whole. Mainly, I'm sick of the rigmarole and want us out just to end this and because the alternative of staying in seems a betrayal of the trust put into a democratic referendum.

Boris Johnson at least seems to be trying to effect the leaving the E.U. that was voted for but I can't vote for Tories. Labour are a joke and the Lib-Dems betrayed their base with lies about tuition fees and boundary rules, ect.

I'd vote Green but that's more an environmental vote and that party and its principles will never be allowed to make fundamental change that hurts corporate profits so there's nothing left for me to vote for. Like most aspects of politics and political discourse these days, the best course is abstention.

Last edited by SOUTHGATE EAGLE; 04-09-2019 at 11:05 PM.
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  #55  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE View Post
I don't know who it leaves. All I do know it that politics in general has become so divisive, tribalistic and mean-spirited that objective debate on almost anything is impossible because the core component of effective debate -listening and giving even the smallest ground on another's points -is now rare indeed. Discussions of Brexit have been swamped by bitter recrimination and dismissal of the political and even moral POV of others and all that's left now are entrenched opinions and know-it-all attitudes. There's no middle ground, everyone is exclusively right and everyone else exclusively wrong ( and fit to be despised ) and I checked out of any real attention to it long ago.

I do still believe we live in a world run by Elites and that there are too many vested, powerful interests to allow a democratic decision to leave ever count but I'm not even sure we should leave anyway and only 'want' to see us leave insomuch as not to make a mockery of a democratic institution such as the referendum. Because of this, I'm disinterested in the conceited argument by Remainers that we should stay because only their minority grasp the 'truth' but, at the same time, I don't pretend ( unlike many ) to have a strong enough grasp of economics ( or a Crystal Palace ball! ) to have any idea whether leaving the EU is a good idea for the country as a whole. Mainly, I'm sick of the rigmarole and want us out just to end this and because the alternative of staying in seems a betrayal of the trust put into a democratic referendum.

Boris Johnson at least seems to be trying to effect the leaving the E.U. that was voted for but I can't vote for Tories. Labour are a joke and the Lib-Dems betrayed their base with lies about tuition fees and boundary rules, ect.

I'd vote Green but that's more an environmental vote and that party and its principles will never be allowed to make fundamental change that hurts corporate profits so there's nothing left for me to vote for. Like most aspects of politics and political discourse these days, the best course is abstention.
I’m surprised as you use your prose effectively to say very little yet use rhetoric of ‘betrayal of the trust’ and ‘mockery of a democratic institution’ to basically say in layman’s terms you would like brexit enacted.

It’s particularly interesting as the two quotes I picked out were the most emotionally designed text in favour of brexit purposefully intertwined behind, respectfully, a lot of meaningless prose.

Can I ask you to put your two, important terms against why brexit is more important than the Belfast agreement/GFA and define?

Last edited by Hpalace; 04-09-2019 at 11:23 PM.
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  #56  
Old 04-09-2019, 11:19 PM
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Given your position is contradictory to said enacted referendum.
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:26 PM
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I don’t think it matters which way you vote I’m terms of tactical voting (as it’s called) this has got a hung parliament written all over it.

Then the issues begin Lib lab coalition unlikely to happen Personally think libs can’t run the risk of doing this again and think they have to many issues

Con lab coalition well that’s never going to happen

So lab snp coalition could occur with Corbyn offering a Scot Indy ref to sturgeon who could well snap his hand off but that’s unlikely to give them a majority

So then it comes down to who has the highest percentage in the commons and goes to the queen and ask to run a minority government that could result in hardly anything passing through in terms of legislation in parliament

So where does that leave my vote I have not idea
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  #58  
Old 05-09-2019, 02:23 AM
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Iím surprised as you use your prose effectively to say very little yet use rhetoric of Ďbetrayal of the trustí and Ďmockery of a democratic institutioní to basically say in laymanís terms you would like brexit enacted.

Itís particularly interesting as the two quotes I picked out were the most emotionally designed text in favour of brexit purposefully intertwined behind, respectfully, a lot of meaningless prose.

Can I ask you to put your two, important terms against why brexit is more important than the Belfast agreement/GFA and define?
I thought I made it clear and sorry if you didn't get it; I don't know if Brexit is good for the country, per se, but we voted for it and we can't ignore a legal, democratic referendum in a democratic country. To surrender the right to leave on a No Deal basis and keep arguing and delaying leaves our country stuck in a circus of even greater economic, political and social turmoil for months or years to come. And we all know no happy compromise exists that will please all sides. We are in the realm of brinkmanship now, with the main question left being whether certain interested parties in this country have the right to prevent a democratically chosen action happening. For me, leaving to represent that we are indeed a democracy is more important than catering to the desperate wish of some who believe the majority decision is wrong.

My post never tried to measure the rights or wrongs of leaving verses staying so I don't need to be dragged into a debate which some here love competing over. You argue with others about it. That's your bag, not mine.
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Old 05-09-2019, 02:51 AM
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I normally spoil my ballot paper with a "hilarious" big spunking cock but it will be Lib Dem for me this time.
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:30 AM
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So who does that leave? The Greens? I am with you on your position of Labour and Tories but when the libdems moderated the Tories things were a lot better. I think they will get my vote as I Simply canít vote Labour or Tory. Not that is really counts for much here as the Conservatives have a huge majority
What did the Lib dems moderate in the coalition?

Austerity - no. Public sector pay freeze throughout linked ti swingeing pension increases, freeze on benefits, unfair disability tests etc, huge tuition fees rise (despite pledge.

All they got was a vote on AV (not even proper PR)

Struggling to think of one thing they did to hold back the Tory assault. May ramped up the Hostile Environment to immigrants ("deport first and ask questions later').

So how did this holding back of the Tories manifest itself? - seemed to be a pretty seamless continuation from coalition to Tory majority to me.
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