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View Poll Results: Which one
Conservatives 33 16.34%
Labour 61 30.20%
Lib Dem 74 36.63%
Green 9 4.46%
Brexit 12 5.94%
Someone else 1 0.50%
Moo = canít be bothered/spoil ballot paper 12 5.94%
Voters: 202. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 05-09-2019, 10:24 AM
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  #82  
Old 06-09-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Reg_Maudling View Post
I expect in Uxbridge and South ruislip you won't be able to move at the next election for momentum activists trying to get johnson out
Boris is going to parachute himself into one of the purged safe seats. East Surrey, maybe?
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  #83  
Old 06-09-2019, 10:55 AM
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Boris is going to parachute himself into one of the purged safe seats. East Surrey, maybe?
Please God no!!!!! Thats my constituency..... 😥
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  #84  
Old 06-09-2019, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE View Post
I don't pretend ( unlike many ) to have a strong enough grasp of economics ( or a Crystal Palace ball! ) to have any idea whether leaving the EU is a good idea for the country as a whole.
Random selection of things I learned from three years studying economics:

99% of what gets written about it in the press is horse****.

It isn't an exact science. There are general principles but they will have varying extent of effect depending on circumstances of the economy in question. You can predict general trends with a reasonable degree of accuracy but not specifics. Contrary to established narrative quite a few economists were warning about a possible massive debt based crash in 00s...but couldn't be sure when it would happen.

A lot of it is counter-intuitive. E.g. Cutting government spending is very rarely a fiscally responsible thing to do (increasing it can be good or bad - depends when, how much and what you do with it).

Austerity was a con. Even at height of crash Labour's %age structural deficits were no worse than some of Thatcher's in the 80s. It was the money they were shovelling into banks that caused debt issues, not the money they were using to pay for welfare state.

'Centrist' economic policy in Britain is actually pretty right wing. Labour's '17 manifesto was (economically) closer to the true centre than the Tories are.

Government borrowing and finance is absolutely nothing like a credit card.

If you want to stimulate growth, you don't give a tax cut to the people at the top, you give it to the people at the bottom.

Economists don't all think globalisation and corporations are wonderful. Joseph Stiglitz, an economics Nobel prize winner, has written lots of pop-economics books on how globalisation has been misused to benefit companies and capital instead of people.

The degree of consensus amongst economists that you see in regards to Brexit is extremely unusual.

Economically speaking, Brexit is stupid. As above, I cannot tell you exactly how stupid. Nobody can. But it is definitely stupid.

Fwiw as a declared interest, I vote Green.
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  #85  
Old 06-09-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Not sure until I can see it what each party is saying they will do on the full range of the manifesto.

The poll above would usually show a Labour win on the BBS so my interest in this poll is mainly about how well the Lib Demís do against Labour. The BBS is and always has been left leaning in these polls.
That is a good way to think but this will be a one policy election for the vast majority of people.
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  #86  
Old 06-09-2019, 11:27 AM
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Boris is going to parachute himself into one of the purged safe seats. East Surrey, maybe?
Wouldn't that be an awfully bad look?
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  #87  
Old 06-09-2019, 11:36 AM
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Usually vote conservative, can't vote for Boris (I'm a Rory Stewart, David Gauke Nicholas Soames style of conservative) so it will have to be Lib Dems I suppose. Can't vote for Corbyn because it just swaps one PM with the IQ of a rock being controlled by dangerous people for another and the Lib Dems are at least clear in their messaging and I would rather Brexit was quietly taken out back and shot.

Either way it will be a hung parliament and I live in Tunbridge Wells so a vote other than Conservative won't make a huge amount of difference in any case.

Essentially this election will solve nothing and actually make UK politics even more toxic as the extremes of both major parties replace the Labour non-believers who have either defected to the Lib Dems and those who were purged by Boris.

Buckle up folks, we're screwed for the long haul.
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  #88  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Vicmo View Post
Usually vote conservative, can't vote for Boris (I'm a Rory Stewart, David Gauke Nicholas Soames style of conservative) so it will have to be Lib Dems I suppose. Can't vote for Corbyn because it just swaps one PM with the IQ of a rock being controlled by dangerous people for another and the Lib Dems are at least clear in their messaging and I would rather Brexit was quietly taken out back and shot.

Either way it will be a hung parliament and I live in Tunbridge Wells so a vote other than Conservative won't make a huge amount of difference in any case.

Essentially this election will solve nothing and actually make UK politics even more toxic as the extremes of both major parties replace the Labour non-believers who have either defected to the Lib Dems and those who were purged by Boris.

Buckle up folks, we're screwed for the long haul.
It's been going on much longer than that in the Tories' case. Cameron's government - from an economic perspective - was in no way a moderate government.

I've thought about Lib Dems. Problem for me is while they would definitely stop Brexit, I don't believe they would do anything to reverse the things that caused it; long term rising inequality, stagnant wages, house prices/energy swallowing disposable income, wealth drain to London. They say a lot of nice-sounding things but there are precious few actual policies. Feels like it would be back to the status quo. Growth pushed by city and house prices. More inequality.

If we learn anything from Brexit it should be that there are a lot of people for whom the status quo is broken.
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  #89  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:24 PM
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The next general election should not be a Brexit election. It should be free to campaign on all important issues that have been neglected since June 2016.

A legally binding referendum is the only way to resolve the current impasse not a Johnson election.
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  #90  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:28 PM
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38% want to vote for a party that can lie on a par with Johnson.
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  #91  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:34 PM
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The Brexit/Tory Reich to get brexit done!
Nigel Farage as president please!
Why no Brexit Tory coalition option? With the remain parties no doubt choosing their battlefields Boris only has a chance with Nigel on board...
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  #92  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
The next general election should not be a Brexit election. It should be free to campaign on all important issues that have been neglected since June 2016.

A legally binding referendum is the only way to resolve the current impasse not a Johnson election.
This is a better post than most on here. Vast numbers will vote on issues others than Brexit rather than on the single issue. Brexit isn't the only thing going on in our lives and there will be a myriad of other issues that each individual has on their mind. Besides I doubt whether the vote outcome will be decisive anyway. Probably a referendum first followed by a general election.
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  #93  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE View Post
I thought I made it clear and sorry if you didn't get it; I don't know if Brexit is good for the country, per se, but we voted for it and we can't ignore a legal, democratic referendum in a democratic country. To surrender the right to leave on a No Deal basis and keep arguing and delaying leaves our country stuck in a circus of even greater economic, political and social turmoil for months or years to come. And we all know no happy compromise exists that will please all sides. We are in the realm of brinkmanship now, with the main question left being whether certain interested parties in this country have the right to prevent a democratically chosen action happening. For me, leaving to represent that we are indeed a democracy is more important than catering to the desperate wish of some who believe the majority decision is wrong.

My post never tried to measure the rights or wrongs of leaving verses staying so I don't need to be dragged into a debate which some here love competing over. You argue with others about it. That's your bag, not mine.
I appreciate you have said you don't want to talk further on the matter which is a shame but I wanted to point out I agree with you.

However if leaving breaks the democratic referendum voted upon in a legal manner in a democratic country (well two of them) why do certain interested parties have the right to block the majority decision of the Good Friday agreement referendum.

For me, maintaining the result of the Good Friday Agreement to represent that we are indeed a democracy is more important than catering to the desperate wish of some who believe the majority decision is wrong.
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  #94  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
Wouldn't that be an awfully bad look?
Probably, but a better look than losing your seat as the sitting PM. He is going to need a big majority.....
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  #95  
Old 06-09-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bipe View Post
Boris Johnson's own seat will be an interesting battleground. He currently holds a majority of around 5,000, but Labour have selected a British-Asian local councillor to stand against him. This guy has basically made it his life's work to win the seat and has spent the past year diligently canvassing the electorate. They seem to be increasingly confident that they can win.

I mentioned earlier that the libs if they donít contest his seat then heís gone
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Old 06-09-2019, 01:03 PM
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It's been going on much longer than that in the Tories' case. Cameron's government - from an economic perspective - was in no way a moderate government.

I've thought about Lib Dems. Problem for me is while they would definitely stop Brexit, I don't believe they would do anything to reverse the things that caused it; long term rising inequality, stagnant wages, house prices/energy swallowing disposable income, wealth drain to London. They say a lot of nice-sounding things but there are precious few actual policies. Feels like it would be back to the status quo. Growth pushed by city and house prices. More inequality.

If we learn anything from Brexit it should be that there are a lot of people for whom the status quo is broken.
I imagine you're hinting that I should vote for the other rock? Not going to happen. I get that there's inequality and it needs to be dealt with in time but the only way it will happen under Corbyn is if everyone's life is equally terrible.

Ultimately life just isn't fair, there will always be rich people and poor people unless you're in Norway but that's not an option for this country (we're too big, too unwieldy and spent our oil money a ling time ago).

Just because a rich bloke from a private school background who has never held a civvie job of any note gets up and says he's going to get rid of the evil rich privately educated people who are ruining their lives and that will make their life magically better, doesn't make it so. The world is more nuanced than that. Those self same people are the ones who were sold an easy answer in the Brexit debate, a silver bullet that would end their woes. How has that gone?

As for Cameron's economic policy, I don't think there was much room for an economic policy whoever was in government, it was economic survival.
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  #97  
Old 06-09-2019, 03:22 PM
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It's been going on much longer than that in the Tories' case. Cameron's government - from an economic perspective - was in no way a moderate government.

I've thought about Lib Dems. Problem for me is while they would definitely stop Brexit, I don't believe they would do anything to reverse the things that caused it; long term rising inequality, stagnant wages, house prices/energy swallowing disposable income, wealth drain to London. They say a lot of nice-sounding things but there are precious few actual policies. Feels like it would be back to the status quo. Growth pushed by city and house prices. More inequality.

If we learn anything from Brexit it should be that there are a lot of people for whom the status quo is broken.
^^
This is it exactly for me.

The lib dems hate brexit but they were absolutely instrumental in creating the social and economic conditions that brought brexit about, and that blindness just about sums them up for me; they have all sorts of noble aspirations and policies that I could support but they seem to have no ability to see how a grossly wealth-divided society will never be a society at peace, will never have any meaningful solidarity between people.

Corbyn's got many problems but at least he can see this and has policies that might cure the disease rather than constantly wrestling, vainly, with the symptoms.
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  #98  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Vicmo View Post
I imagine you're hinting that I should vote for the other rock? Not going to happen. I get that there's inequality and it needs to be dealt with in time but the only way it will happen under Corbyn is if everyone's life is equally terrible.

Ultimately life just isn't fair, there will always be rich people and poor people unless you're in Norway but that's not an option for this country (we're too big, too unwieldy and spent our oil money a ling time ago).

Just because a rich bloke from a private school background who has never held a civvie job of any note gets up and says he's going to get rid of the evil rich privately educated people who are ruining their lives and that will make their life magically better, doesn't make it so. The world is more nuanced than that. Those self same people are the ones who were sold an easy answer in the Brexit debate, a silver bullet that would end their woes. How has that gone?

As for Cameron's economic policy, I don't think there was much room for an economic policy whoever was in government, it was economic survival.
I don't vote for the other rock either. I vote Green. And I wasn't trying to push any particular party, more a point of view.

'There will always be inequality' doesn't mean that the current level is acceptable. Inequality is like the vast majority of economic phenomena - it is neither inherently good nor inherently bad. It depends on the circumstances. You must have inequality, otherwise capitalist society cannot function. But if you have too much, it starts to function badly, and you get things like Brexit votes.

People forget that the economy was out of recession and in positive growth when Cameron took over. He and Osborne trashed it and put it back in recession. The 'maxed out credit card' was a narrative used to justify what they wanted to do anyway. Not least because government borrowing is nothing like a credit card.
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  #99  
Old 10-09-2019, 01:00 PM
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Green or Labour. Was a Green member until recently when I left the UK.

It depends, I reckon in the area I'm registered to vote in (Reigate) the best chance of unseating the Tory incumbent (Crispin Blunt, voted for no deal) would be a resurrection of a "Progressive Alliance" as I can see the vote being split between Green, Labour, Lib Dem. The other split would be Tories (strong, safe seat), Brexit and UKIP.

In Reigate so far the Brexit party have already announced their candidate: A Reverend Doctor businessman born in 1952. UKIP came second in 2015 with 13% but then down below 3% in 2017 which seem to have gone to Labour.

For me, if Labour came out in support of revoking article 50, or a people's vote with remain on the ballot, I'd vote Labour. Anything else and I vote Green.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:18 PM
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Les Butler Les Butler is offline
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Les Butler Sam the man is hereLes Butler Sam the man is hereLes Butler Sam the man is hereLes Butler Sam the man is hereLes Butler Sam the man is hereLes Butler Sam the man is hereLes Butler Sam the man is hereLes Butler Sam the man is hereLes Butler Sam the man is hereLes Butler Sam the man is hereLes Butler Sam the man is here
I cannot vote so I will not vote on the poll but if I could Lib Dems for me,don't understand how anyone can vote for the shower of shit that put the UK in this shit in the first place. An opposition that is equally split down the middle and main goal has been power at any cost despite all their rhetoric which even the electorate has put their leader and party in 2nd place all along below the shower of shit that is there now.

Get something new and fresh,have another ref and thats it, in or out then start running the country as it should be Governed.
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