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  #2121  
Old 06-04-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by andy1980
You need to start thinking very carefully too. There is a thread on here started about Brightons 9.1 million loss (which is not an unusually hig loss, being posted by Championship teams at the moment) by a Palace fan. Barber was voicing reassurance that it was being dealt with and although hard work we would achieve it and taking it seriously.
I do? You're just repeating what I said. After over a year of being told about Brighton's incomparable income streams, they post what in the context of your fans' boasting is a surprisingly high loss, with more to come. A loss which even seemed to take Barber by surprise. Threadworthy.

Compared to a wankathon countdown on accounts that are yet to even be announced, the firm of auditors, what date and time were they submitted. Sad wankers.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince Hilaire's Afro
I do? You're just repeating what I said. After over a year of being told about Brighton's incomparable income streams, they post what in the context of your fans' boasting is a surprisingly high loss, with more to come. A loss which even seemed to take Barber by surprise. Threadworthy.

Compared to a wankathon countdown on accounts that are yet to even be announced, the firm of auditors, what date and time were they submitted. Sad wankers.
You can twist it how you want, all the time I have been on here, you have threads about our accounts, same with NSC. We are rivals its what rivals do. How can Barber be suprised, when those accounts were for last season, and is more than likley why he is here?
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  #2123  
Old 06-04-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by andy1980
You can twist it how you want, all the time I have been on here, you have threads about our accounts, same with NSC. We are rivals its what rivals do. How can Barber be suprised, when those accounts were for last season, and is more than likley why he is here?
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  #2124  
Old 06-04-2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince Hilaire's Afro
No-one cares Andy, it just demonstrates why Brighton's finances may have been a point of discussion. It possibly also explains the pitiful 'countdown to Palace's accounts' wankfest on NSC, where straws are being desperately clutched in one hand, and cocks in the other.
it demonstrates that even by the MASSIVE cheating of ignoring the financing of the stadium they are living massively outside of their means. A nice mega shiny brand new stadium means lots of plastic pie purchasers so large increase in income in the accounts but without the financing that you would need to factor into the Cashflow statement on an arms length basis ie you need to add in c10m into the -ve CF
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  #2125  
Old 06-04-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince Hilaire's Afro
If you call it stubborness then so be it, but as far as I'm concerned if you want to take the mickey out of Brighton fans wanting to see your accounts then ignor the fact on here Palace fans have already gone through ours then so be it. By the way there is a lot of other reasons why they might want to see your accounts. I mean you have been in administration twice, so why wouldn't it be of interest to see if there is any sign of going in a third time? See if you have learnt your lessons from the prevous two times, isn't that worthy of a thread?
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  #2126  
Old 06-04-2013, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by eaglejez
it demonstrates that even by the MASSIVE cheating of ignoring the financing of the stadium they are living massively outside of their means. A nice mega shiny brand new stadium means lots of plastic pie purchasers so large increase in income in the accounts but without the financing that you would need to factor into the Cashflow statement on an arms length basis ie you need to add in c10m into the -ve CF
How were we cheating with the finances of the stadium? Buckinghams have been paid, they are so happy with us they are building our training ground.

We went to the bank they wouldn't lend us the money, so where else should we have gone, or should we have died?

Why are you not cheating with the donation to your youth academy?
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  #2127  
Old 06-04-2013, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by andy1980
If you call it stubborness then so be it, but as far as I'm concerned if you want to take the mickey out of Brighton fans wanting to see your accounts then ignor the fact on here Palace fans have already gone through ours then so be it. By the way there is a lot of other reasons why they might want to see your accounts. I mean you have been in administration twice, so why wouldn't it be of interest to see if there is any sign of going in a third time? See if you have learnt your lessons from the prevous two times, isn't that worthy of a thread?
our owners have already said they are willing to cover our losses out of their own pockets until somebody can take over. Subject to the odd variation from Sales proceeds or the odd signing they are going to be -5m +/- a few million. That will be wiped out and not rack up as debt.

We may never go up but at least we are solvent long term. We are very lucky to have our owners since like most clubs we would be totally ****ed financially without them
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  #2128  
Old 06-04-2013, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by andy1980
How were we cheating with the finances of the stadium? Buckinghams have been paid, they are so happy with us they are building our training ground.

We went to the bank they wouldn't lend us the money, so where else should we have gone, or should we have died?

Why are you not cheating with the donation to your youth academy?
you could say we are cheating if the definition is living outside our means. If we bought a new stadium we would need to include the financing costs. Most clubs including Palace and Brighton are living outside their means. We don't need to include the rent since we now own the ground and the future rentals in theory would have been factored into the price paid by CPFC2010 in 2010. In theory that would be as asset that would be depreciated over time.

Brighton don't include the financing costs which is very fortunate.

Football finances are totally screwed
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  #2129  
Old 06-04-2013, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by andy1980
I won't argue it is big, I don't have a clue if it is out of control (I think only Bloom and Barber can answer that, and I don't think they are going to tell me). Some Brighton fans on NSC, I believe, have got the wrong impression about how Palace is being run at the moment. I obviously don't think I'm one of them.

I will say that of the top of my head Ipswich, Middlesborough, Cardiff, Bristol City, Leicester, and Nottingham Forest (I'm not 100% sure on this one) have all posted bigger losses than us. Derby has posted similar to us.That is 1 in 3 that has posted more or similar to us. So I do dispute it is unusually high.
They don't haver attendences of 250,000 per game like you do though.
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  #2130  
Old 06-04-2013, 12:19 PM
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Why are you not cheating with the donation to your youth academy?
For donation, read sponsorship.
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  #2131  
Old 07-04-2013, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by little al
For donation, read sponsorship.
At this moment in time Brighton have not cheated at all (broken any rules set out by the Football League). Yet some Palace fans say we have, basically because we have a sugar daddy, who has spent 150 million on us, hence living outside our means. A donation from your fan is generous, kind and along the same line as Tony Bloom (although I am sure its nowhere near as much). If what is happening at Brighton is cheating, then the donation from the fan is cheating.

Your owners say that they cover your losses with interest free loans to the club. If what is being written on the NSC is true, and you expected to post about a 3 million loss up to June 2012, added to your 5.5 million loss before that, then that 8.5 million loss since they took over 2 years ago, therefore 8.5 million in interest free loans.

Brighton figures and Palace figures are nothing like eachother obviously, and if you really do believe that any money outside what the club brings in is cheating, then we are cheating far more than you.

If following pre-set rules agreed by and set out by the footballing authorities is how you define cheating or not, then neither of us are cheating, and both are lucky with how things are going.
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  #2132  
Old 07-04-2013, 08:04 AM
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I dont think Brighton have cheated, I'm just amused by the hypocrisy of Brighton fans claiming living on Bloom is any different to our situation when we living on Jordan's money. It's all fine until it isn't, yet Brighton fans insist that we were outrageous cheats for doing what they are currently doing.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4
I dont think Brighton have cheated, I'm just amused by the hypocrisy of Brighton fans claiming living on Bloom is any different to our situation when we living on Jordan's money. It's all fine until it isn't, yet Brighton fans insist that we were outrageous cheats for doing what they are currently doing.
The administration is cheating, I know most of the money was owed to Jordan but other people lost money too who didn't want to.
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  #2134  
Old 07-04-2013, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by andy1980
The administration is cheating, I know most of the money was owed to Jordan but other people lost money too who didn't want to.
Then it's the system that's wrong and the same happens in any business.

Cheating, it certainly isn't, and certainly isn't the fault of the fans who carry on supporting their club oblivious to what the real financial scenes behind the club, like you maybe ?
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:22 AM
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The administration is cheating, I know most of the money was owed to Jordan but other people lost money too who didn't want to.

I don't think you can class administration as cheating. No business wants to go into administration as it can have a devastating effect. Football has rules & punishments regarding clubs which go into administration so if we are to go by your argument that outside funding isn't breaking rules then going into administration isn't breaking rules as you get punished for going into administration.

One thing you should remember is that Jordan didn't want to & didn't ask for the club to be put into administration it was forced upon him.

You should also remember that when Brighton were on the verge of disappearing you came to an agreement with some of your creditors that you will only pay them a percentage of what you owed them which, lets be honest, is an act of administration in all but name.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by spuddy
I don't think you can class administration as cheating. No business wants to go into administration as it can have a devastating effect. Football has rules & punishments regarding clubs which go into administration so if we are to go by your argument that outside funding isn't breaking rules then going into administration isn't breaking rules as you get punished for going into administration.

One thing you should remember is that Jordan didn't want to & didn't ask for the club to be put into administration it was forced upon him.

You should also remember that when Brighton were on the verge of disappearing you came to an agreement with some of your creditors that you will only pay them a percentage of what you owed them which, lets be honest, is an act of administration in all but name.
You are wrong about the rules bit. The rules as it stands say that next season say if we make over an 8 million loss we are breaking the rules and will get a transfer embargoagainst unless we get promoted then we will have to pay x amount. The rules on administration say if you go into administration then you get a 10 point deduction, you can't get penalised for something unless it breaks the rules.

Obviously Jordan didn't want to go into administration but he had control of the purse string, he spent the money and ultimately payed the price.

Ive read about Brightons agreement, and too a certain extent your right, but ultimatly they sat down with them and came to an agreement where both benefitted as much as they could.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Penstone Eagle
Then it's the system that's wrong and the same happens in any business.

Cheating, it certainly isn't, and certainly isn't the fault of the fans who carry on supporting their club oblivious to what the real financial scenes behind the club, like you maybe ?
I agree that it isn't the fault of the fans, but it most definatly is cheating you can't get penalised for something (10 point deduction) unless people see it as cheating.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by andy1980
The administration is cheating, I know most of the money was owed to Jordan but other people lost money too who didn't want to.
Firstly, administration isn't "cheating" since (much like living on other people's money) it functions within the rules. There is a penalty and we paid it. Frankly I'd like to see a change to the rules, both in regards to administration and living on other people's money, but you can't cry about Palace fans calling your handouts cheating in one breath and then do the same the next regarding Palace.

The rules are the rules. Whether they should be different is another matter.

Secondly, are you saying if Bloom should get into financial difficulties in future and be put into administration in a few years over a minor sum (a few million, compared to the tens of millions that he has put in) that all actions of his will have been cheating? That your promotion to the Championship was cheating, your new ground was cheating, every player you've bought is cheating?

Or will it only be cheating from the moment he borrowed that sum? Or from the moment he was put into administration? I'm just wondering at what point this fictional cheating of yours starts, and how far it is retrospective.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4
Firstly, administration isn't "cheating" since (much like living on other people's money) it functions within the rules. There is a penalty and we paid it. Frankly I'd like to see a change to the rules, both in regards to administration and living on other people's money, but you can't cry about Palace fans calling your handouts cheating in one breath and then do the same the next regarding Palace.

The rules are the rules. Whether they should be different is another matter.

Secondly, are you saying if Bloom should get into financial difficulties in future and be put into administration in a few years over a minor sum (a few million, compared to the tens of millions that he has put in) that all actions of his will have been cheating? That your promotion to the Championship was cheating, your new ground was cheating, every player you've bought is cheating?

Or will it only be cheating from the moment he borrowed that sum? Or from the moment he was put into administration? I'm just wondering at what point this fictional cheating of yours starts, and how far it is retrospective.
If we get put into administration then we cheated. It's one thing having a sugar daddy spending his own money, thats his choice. If you then start spending money that he hasn't got then too right thats cheating. The sister company to the company that I work for is a supplier of Brighton, why on earth should they end up paying anything towards Brighton just because they give them credit for what they buy of them? It's theft pure and simple.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:18 AM
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You are wrong about the rules bit. The rules as it stands say that next season say if we make over an 8 million loss we are breaking the rules and will get a transfer embargoagainst unless we get promoted then we will have to pay x amount. The rules on administration say if you go into administration then you get a 10 point deduction, you can't get penalised for something unless it breaks the rules.

Obviously Jordan didn't want to go into administration but he had control of the purse string, he spent the money and ultimately payed the price.

Ive read about Brightons agreement, and too a certain extent your right, but ultimatly they sat down with them and came to an agreement where both benefitted as much as they could.
Your last paragraph makes me chuckle. To come out of administration we had to have a CVA agreement whereby we had to come to a deal with our creditors where they would accept a percentage of the monies owed to them. That agreement was reached by all parties. Plenty of fans & people hammer us & any other club who have to go down that road.

Brighton came to an agreement with their creditors to only pay them a percentage of what they were owed. Agreement was reached by all parties. Surprise surprise you & all other brighton fans say this isn't classed as cheating, not paying all the debt & not living beyond your means. Not so nice when boots on the other foot mate.

Now I know bloom is lifelong fan blah blah blah. I hope for your sake things pan out as you all hope but never ever forget nobody can tell what will happen in the future but if he ever calls in the debt it even a % of it you are well & truly stuffed.
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'It's almost like this burden of not having come from behind to win a game is er weighing heavy on the minds of these Brighton players. They cannot find a response. Dikgacoi.....Zaha Oh yes Wilfried Zaha single handidly firing palace to wembley'
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