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  #861  
Old 06-06-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Selhurst Celtic View Post
The Ashers Bakery case seems to have opened the door on this sort of thing.
You cannot have your fairy cake and eat it...
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  #862  
Old 06-06-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
You cannot have your fairy cake and eat it...
how about sucking on a cream horn...
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  #863  
Old 06-06-2019, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
I am sure there are some women who wear the burqa through personal choice.

But I agree that pressure from male family members is likely to be a significant factor.

This then raises the question of how we weigh one woman's right to personal freedom vs another woman's lifetime of enforced oppression.
I wouldn't ban the burqa, 100% definitely not and I am sure most women in the UK believe they are making a personal choice to wear it.

However, as a construct it is shit absolutely shit, and as I say is not necessary in Islam whatsoever.
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  #864  
Old 06-06-2019, 04:54 PM
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Every time I see a woman wearing a burqa, I feel sorry for them.
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  #865  
Old 06-06-2019, 04:56 PM
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I feel the same about a cyclist in Lycra.
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  #866  
Old 06-06-2019, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
I wouldn't ban the burqa, 100% definitely not and I am sure most women in the UK believe they are making a personal choice to wear it.

However, as a construct it is shit absolutely shit, and as I say is not necessary in Islam whatsoever.
I understand that, like so many things in religious texts, it is open to interpretation. A minority of Muslim scholars, particularly among the Salafi movement, assert that women are required to cover their face in public.

I suspect it is impossible to put a figure on the relative proportions who wear it out of personal choice vs the proportion who wear it due to external pressure or obligations.

I sympathise with the desire to maintain freedom to dress as we wish as much as possible. But I tend to think if even 10% of wearers are pressured to wear it against their will then it needs to be banned. The freedom of nine women to dress as they wish, is not worth one woman suffering a lifetime of oppression imo.
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  #867  
Old 06-06-2019, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I feel the same about a cyclist in Lycra.

I feel the same about men in bootcut jeans whilst wearing smart shoes
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  #868  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:03 PM
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I feel the same about men in ripped jeans.
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  #869  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
I understand that, like so many things in religious texts, it is open to interpretation. A minority of Muslim scholars, particularly among the Salafi movement, assert that women are required to cover their face in public.

I suspect it is impossible to put a figure on the relative proportions who wear it out of personal choice vs the proportion who wear it due to external pressure or obligations.

I sympathise with the desire to maintain freedom to dress as we wish as much as possible. But I tend to think if even 10% of wearers are pressured to wear it against their will then it needs to be banned. The freedom of nine women to dress as they wish, is not worth one woman suffering a lifetime of oppression imo.
What an odd conclusion
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  #870  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:25 PM
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I am always amused by people who claim that a brown man telling a woman what to wear is an affront to freedom, but a white man telling a woman what to wear is perfectly OK.
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  #871  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
I understand that, like so many things in religious texts, it is open to interpretation. A minority of Muslim scholars, particularly among the Salafi movement, assert that women are required to cover their face in public.

I suspect it is impossible to put a figure on the relative proportions who wear it out of personal choice vs the proportion who wear it due to external pressure or obligations.

I sympathise with the desire to maintain freedom to dress as we wish as much as possible. But I tend to think if even 10% of wearers are pressured to wear it against their will then it needs to be banned. The freedom of nine women to dress as they wish, is not worth one woman suffering a lifetime of oppression imo.
Yeah, that rationale checks out. What about the 9 women no longer free to wear what they wish once you ban it?

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  #872  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy View Post
I am always amused by people who claim that a brown man telling a woman what to wear is an affront to freedom, but a white man telling a woman what to wear is perfectly OK.
Quite. Very Orwellian
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  #873  
Old 06-06-2019, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I feel the same about a cyclist in Lycra.
I feel sorry for your Leather trousers!
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  #874  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:00 PM
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I am always amused by white male liberals who place more value in their right to continue virtue signalling than minority ethnic women kept in real-life servitude.
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  #875  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:09 PM
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I am always amused by how men caricature gender politics and think that rules in religion and rules in law have ever had any baring on a woman's place in the home or in society. Do these men never read old books or old short stories?
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  #876  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:15 PM
TWELLSEagle TWELLSEagle is offline
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TWELLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietTWELLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietTWELLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietTWELLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietTWELLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietTWELLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietTWELLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietTWELLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietTWELLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietTWELLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietTWELLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
I am always amused by white male liberals who place more value in their right to continue virtue signalling than minority ethnic women kept in real-life servitude.
I don’t think you are, I just think you like to sound like a pompous twit
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  #877  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy View Post
I am always amused by people who claim that a brown man telling a woman what to wear is an affront to freedom, but a white man telling a woman what to wear is perfectly OK.
Dunno about you but I have been married twice and am always being told you cannot wear that or that does not match
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  #878  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
Dunno about you but I have been married twice and am always being told you cannot wear that or that does not match
Don’t double up on the pattern!
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  #879  
Old 06-06-2019, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
I understand that, like so many things in religious texts, it is open to interpretation. A minority of Muslim scholars, particularly among the Salafi movement, assert that women are required to cover their face in public.

I suspect it is impossible to put a figure on the relative proportions who wear it out of personal choice vs the proportion who wear it due to external pressure or obligations.

I sympathise with the desire to maintain freedom to dress as we wish as much as possible. But I tend to think if even 10% of wearers are pressured to wear it against their will then it needs to be banned. The freedom of nine women to dress as they wish, is not worth one woman suffering a lifetime of oppression imo.
The uk should encourage and support women's right to not wear it, but an outright ban will marginalize women further, as those who believe will suffer social exclusion (they won't go out as much). Instead the UK should prompt and support Islamic feminist movements to empower women to create change
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  #880  
Old 07-06-2019, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
The uk should encourage and support women's right to not wear it, but an outright ban will marginalize women further, as those who believe will suffer social exclusion (they won't go out as much). Instead the UK should prompt and support Islamic feminist movements to empower women to create change
I hear what you are saying, but don't you think they are already suffering social exclusion anyway?

Completely agree with supporting Islamic feminist movements though, or indeed feminist movements in any country where women don't have equal rights.
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