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  #81  
Old 23-09-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
That Chief Executive really earned his 8m.
I bet he's one of the first in line to get something out of the ashes. P45's for the common people.
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  #82  
Old 23-09-2019, 11:09 AM
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And I'm not sure being 'stranded abroad' is an unattractive option at the moment.
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  #83  
Old 23-09-2019, 11:16 AM
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The crew that worked those flights very often tend to be left abroad. It happened with Primera Air where staff weren't informed that the airline had even gone out of business and ended up then being told they'd have to find their own way home, in some cases from the east coast of the United States. I'm sure there are Thomas Cook staff in exactly the same position.
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  #84  
Old 23-09-2019, 12:08 PM
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Well someone's making money out of it...

While the taxpaper faces a £100m bill to get Thomas Cook’s customers home, investors who bet on the firm’s collapse will enjoy a payday.

Bloomberg reports that hedge funds who bet against Thomas Cook’s bonds are in line for a £250m windfall -- exactly the amount which the government declined to pump into the firm.

They’ll profit through credit default swaps - insurance that pays out when a company fails to repay its bonds.

Bloomberg says:

Not everyone lost out with the collapse of 178-year-old Thomas Cook Group Plc that put 21,000 jobs at risk and left travelers around the world stranded.

Speculators including Sona Asset Management and XAIA Investment GmbH stand to earn as much as $250 million from the bankruptcy.

They invested in derivatives that pay out when a company defaults. The fate of those securities was at the heart of the battle over whether Thomas Cook lived or died.

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Last edited by SKATE; 23-09-2019 at 12:27 PM.
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  #85  
Old 23-09-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SKATE View Post
Well someone's making money out of it...

While the taxpaper faces a £100m bill to get Thomas Cook’s customers home, investors who bet on the firm’s collapse will enjoy a payday.

Bloomberg reports that hedge funds who bet against Thomas Cook’s bonds are in line for a £250m windfall -- exactly the amount which the government declined to pump into the firm.

They’ll profit through credit default swaps - insurance that pays out when a company fails to repay its bonds.

Bloomberg says:

Not everyone lost out with the collapse of 178-year-old Thomas Cook Group Plc that put 21,000 jobs at risk and left travelers around the world stranded.

Speculators including Sona Asset Management and XAIA Investment GmbH stand to earn as much as $250 million from the bankruptcy.

They invested in derivatives that pay out when a company defaults. The fate of those securities was at the heart of the battle over whether Thomas Cook lived or died.
Parasites.

These people that make their living shuffling money around that other people have generated are scumbags. And often the best paid of the lot.
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  #86  
Old 23-09-2019, 12:59 PM
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That $250m of CDS will have a loser though. They were one of the big causes of 2008s depression.
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  #87  
Old 23-09-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post
Parasites.

These people that make their living shuffling money around that other people have generated are scumbags. And often the best paid of the lot.
I disagree. Pension funds regularly use CDS or other shorting techniques for efficient portfolio management and/or insurance purposes. It is not allowed to hold them for speculative purposes if you are a regulated pension fund.

f you didnt have insurance in place you would be taking excessive risk on pensioners assets....almost like not having house insurance.

I only disagree with speculative shorting or specialist short seller hedge funds (e.g. Einhorn) who produce very negatively biased research about a stock, having already taken out a large short position, with the aim of driving the price down. Holding a CDS atleast means that you don't get burned as much
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  #88  
Old 23-09-2019, 01:19 PM
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No more 18-30
They closed it down a year ago.
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  #89  
Old 23-09-2019, 01:30 PM
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Anyone want a £1000 worth of Thomas Cook vouchers, I'll offer a good price
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  #90  
Old 23-09-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DANGERMOUSE View Post
At the risk of asking a potentially stupid question, why is a £600m taxpayer repatriation better value than a £200m taxpayer financial rescue? I'm guessing state-aid rules may be playing a part, but still.
Where does the £600m figure come from? The government has said it'll be about £100m.
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  #91  
Old 23-09-2019, 02:33 PM
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And I would bet that’s an over-estimate.
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  #92  
Old 23-09-2019, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
Where does the £600m figure come from? The government has said it'll be about £100m.
That higher figure was reported in the media at the weekend but I can't remember where. I'm sure the article mentioned that in addition to the packaged holidays there was an additional cost for the flights only people.

I had the same thought at the time that it would be cheaper to chuck £200m into the pot.
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  #93  
Old 23-09-2019, 02:53 PM
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People are being chucked out of their hotel rooms, refused access to food and being prevented from leaving by security until they pay up for stays they had already paid in full to Thomas Cook... Must be an absolute nightmare!
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  #94  
Old 23-09-2019, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post
Parasites.

These people that make their living shuffling money around that other people have generated are scumbags. And often the best paid of the lot.
Would be nice if they used some of that money to ensure TC employees who are left stranded around the world were able to get home.
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  #95  
Old 23-09-2019, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_who_ru View Post
That higher figure was reported in the media at the weekend but I can't remember where. I'm sure the article mentioned that in addition to the packaged holidays there was an additional cost for the flights only people.

I had the same thought at the time that it would be cheaper to chuck £200m into the pot.
Package holiday folk will be compensated by ATOL, others will get money refunded from their credit card and holiday only (no flight) will be reimbursed by ABTA.

I think the government cost figure is largely flights but can also potentially includes unpaid wages and redundancy costs that employees can claim.

Sad day for all concerned.

I wonder how much has been paid as dividend and executive pay over the last 10 years.
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  #96  
Old 23-09-2019, 03:58 PM
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I booked my flight to Orlando ages ago via Opodo. Not a work on their website about TC and they haven't answered my message on their live chat after 8 hours.
We'll see how it goes, otherwise, I won't be using them again.
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  #97  
Old 23-09-2019, 04:13 PM
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Funny how people look at things. Couple of interviews one saying “it’s not fair poor me 12 hours to get home it’s not good enough” another said “delighted that we are getting home doesn’t matter if it’s the wrong airport great job”

Now if you had a bet you would have said the 60 something would have been the stoic one and the 20 something the moaner. Refreshingly it was the young chap that was the positive one.
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  #98  
Old 23-09-2019, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post

I wonder how much has been paid as dividend and executive pay over the last 10 years.
Once you reach a certain level, it doesn’t matter whether you are successful or not. Their seem to be loads of Bentekes in top management.
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  #99  
Old 23-09-2019, 04:31 PM
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Once you reach a certain level, it doesn’t matter whether you are successful or not. Their seem to be loads of Bentekes in top management.
It was more a statement on being a public company.

Private companies tend to be both less debt ridden and store cash for difficult periods, they also don't tend to pay bloated salaries to board members to 'attract the best' . They pay themselves well when the company is doing well and can afford to do so not year in year out.

I feel sorry for the employees, and have sympathy for holidaymakers.
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  #100  
Old 23-09-2019, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Isle of Wight View Post
Funny how people look at things. Couple of interviews one saying “it’s not fair poor me 12 hours to get home it’s not good enough” another said “delighted that we are getting home doesn’t matter if it’s the wrong airport great job”

Now if you had a bet you would have said the 60 something would have been the stoic one and the 20 something the moaner. Refreshingly it was the young chap that was the positive one.
Or as someone I know post on FB as they are currently stuck abroad....

It's a holiday ruined, but its just a holiday. Thousands of people have lost their jobs
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