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  #1  
Old 05-10-2019, 06:36 PM
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creative midfield player = goals from open play

Brilliant win tonight, no doubt about that.

However, how many more games do we have to suffer for 70-80 minutes (luckily getting penalties) before we actually add some creativity to our midfield?

Two weeks now Andros has contributed significantly to goals from open play.

Roy has got to try adding more creativity into midfield. Who do you think drops out after the international break? Personally just can't see MM or VC ever starting for Palace again without an injury forcing Roy's hand.

I'm delighted with our form this season but I'd love to see this team reach it's potential and start playing some exciting football, at a higher tempo.
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by alanlee11 View Post
Brilliant win tonight, no doubt about that.

However, how many more games do we have to suffer for 70-80 minutes (luckily getting penalties) before we actually add some creativity to our midfield?

Two weeks now Andros has contributed significantly to goals from open play.

Roy has got to try adding more creativity into midfield. Who do you think drops out after the international break? Personally just can't see MM or VC ever starting for Palace again without an injury forcing Roy's hand.

I'm delighted with our form this season but I'd love to see this team reach it's potential and start playing some exciting football, at a higher tempo.
I hope you're not looking for us to "go to the next level"!
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:56 PM
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It's a trade right? If you add offensive players, you loss something in defense and our defense is excellent. To improve I don't think midfield is the area we need to look at, it's the attack. Ayew, Schlupp, Benteke, Wickham, Townsend - not very inspiring. Aside from Zaha we don't have anyone that can really scare a defense. If we could replace Benteke and Wickham with a tough forward, Mitrovic for example, and a tricky winger then I think we'd see plenty more goals.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by alanlee11 View Post
Brilliant win tonight, no doubt about that.

However, how many more games do we have to suffer for 70-80 minutes (luckily getting penalties) before we actually add some creativity to our midfield?

Two weeks now Andros has contributed significantly to goals from open play.

Roy has got to try adding more creativity into midfield. Who do you think drops out after the international break? Personally just can't see MM or VC ever starting for Palace again without an injury forcing Roy's hand.

I'm delighted with our form this season but I'd love to see this team reach it's potential and start playing some exciting football, at a higher tempo.
I think this is a more worthwhile discussion than the points-scoring anti-Hodgson vs pro-Hodgson threads where people change their mind every week.

Personally, I agree. Absolutely brilliant win tonight with an element of fortune rewarding a gritty display. My view is still that I don't particularly enjoy watching us play and would love to see the creative midfielders in there against weaker opposition at home but while we're racking up the points any criticism will fall on deaf ears.

Specifically on Townsend, I've never thought his attacking output was enough for the talent he's got and his previous undroppable status did him no favours. I like Schlupp's more simplistic direct approach on the wing and maybe Townsend is almost being forced into being more direct as a late sub because he's got limited time on the pitch. He probably does deserve a start but I wouldn't want Andros as an undroppable starter again.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by alanlee11 View Post
Brilliant win tonight, no doubt about that.

However, how many more games do we have to suffer for 70-80 minutes (luckily getting penalties) before we actually add some creativity to our midfield?

Two weeks now Andros has contributed significantly to goals from open play.

Roy has got to try adding more creativity into midfield. Who do you think drops out after the international break? Personally just can't see MM or VC ever starting for Palace again without an injury forcing Roy's hand.

I'm delighted with our form this season but I'd love to see this team reach it's potential and start playing some exciting football, at a higher tempo.
4 wins in 8 and 4th spot not quite good enough for this group of players then?
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by wavey View Post
It's a trade right? If you add offensive players, you loss something in defense and our defense is excellent. To improve I don't think midfield is the area we need to look at, it's the attack. Ayew, Schlupp, Benteke, Wickham, Townsend - not very inspiring. Aside from Zaha we don't have anyone that can really scare a defense. If we could replace Benteke and Wickham with a tough forward, Mitrovic for example, and a tricky winger then I think we'd see plenty more goals.
Yes it is a trade. A better striker would be nice, for sure. But really the only player who is obvious replaceable where we would increase the creativity without losing anything defensively is Schlupp (and there area few times where his energy has won points).

But if you are a team like Palace you pick a team for the opposition. I would want to see a different midfield against teams who would look to defend because we though the three did today, they’re not going to open up lower end teams like Brighton at home.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:18 PM
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I’m just enjoying the moment when looking at the table. I’m with Ayew in that 40 points and we are all happy bunnies and then maybe dream. I also am completely wrong in my opinions of transfers Guita, McCarthy, Cahil, Ayew all got a meh and Camarasa got a yay.
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:28 PM
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I love McArthur but Mccarthy should be ahead of him now.

I'm not sure I'd want Luka back funny enough either! Our passing in midfield and between the back line is infinitely better without him...
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Old 05-10-2019, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by alanlee11 View Post
Brilliant win tonight, no doubt about that.

However, how many more games do we have to suffer for 70-80 minutes (luckily getting penalties) before we actually add some creativity to our midfield?

Two weeks now Andros has contributed significantly to goals from open play.

Roy has got to try adding more creativity into midfield. Who do you think drops out after the international break? Personally just can't see MM or VC ever starting for Palace again without an injury forcing Roy's hand.

I'm delighted with our form this season but I'd love to see this team reach it's potential and start playing some exciting football, at a higher tempo.
Careful. Daring to say such things will have you accused of negativity. By people who will likely wet the bed if we lose four games on the spin.

But I agree we need something to change because we can't keep winning narrow games, especially one's where, like today, the oppo created more and better chances. We are doing well but are hardly 'opening teams up' as a means to scoring. Lots of opportunistic goals is great but they won't come forever and I think, if we dare be objective whilst in fourth place, we can only benefit by adding a little guile. Of course, you can only say that after we fail to create chances AND fail to score a scrappy goal, given the current reaction to those who dare say we aren't playing as well as our otherwise excellent start would suggest.

I'd love to try Zaha and Townsend up front with Meyer brought in behind. Ayew has done absolutely nothing wrong in terms of finishing, but we still lack the kind of controlled, accurate penetration other teams demonstrate in how they score goals and I think having a bit more guile up front and in a CAM role would help. Of course, we won again today so there is nothing to talk about because we will definitely keep winning like we are...
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:12 PM
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Yes it is a trade. A better striker would be nice, for sure. But really the only player who is obvious replaceable where we would increase the creativity without losing anything defensively is Schlupp (and there area few times where his energy has won points).

But if you are a team like Palace you pick a team for the opposition. I would want to see a different midfield against teams who would look to defend because we though the three did today, they’re not going to open up lower end teams like Brighton at home.
The thing about this league is any team, even the lower placed teams can punish you. Obvs, we've only lost two games this season and one was Sheffield United. In that game we started with Meyer, Benteke and Townsend, two of which were subbed and arguably so should have been the third. Those three haven't been in the side since and the run has been very good - aside from Tottenham where we were shelled shocked into a very uncharacteristic performance.

What I notice at the moment is that a) the team is keeping possession better b) we're turning over the ball more regularly higher up the pitch c) we aren't scoring much from classic counter attacks, ie galloping towards the goal from our own half, we're scoring scrappier goals following a degree of pressure. This style of play should still work at home and against more defensive teams and perhaps that is born out by the improved points haul at Selhurst.

I feel this change style is due to our rugged midfield three. Kouyate in particular has been a revelation for me. He's not the best technical player and his passing range is limited, but he has pace, power and height in bundles and his closing down is exceptional. McArthur, McCarthy and Luka don't quite have his athleticism but both are scrappy, tenacious players that contest every ball in the middle and have decent passing range and it's that fight in the middle that is keeping us competitive. It's going to be hard for the more 'creative' players to break into that midfield and I think I'm with Roy on this one.
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:23 PM
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The thing about this league is any team, even the lower placed teams can punish you. Obvs, we've only lost two games this season and one was Sheffield United. In that game we started with Meyer, Benteke and Townsend, two of which were subbed and arguably so should have been the third. Those three haven't been in the side since and the run has been very good - aside from Tottenham where we were shelled shocked into a very uncharacteristic performance.



What I notice at the moment is that a) the team is keeping possession better b) we're turning over the ball more regularly higher up the pitch c) we aren't scoring much from classic counter attacks, ie galloping towards the goal from our own half, we're scoring scrappier goals following a degree of pressure. This style of play should still work at home and against more defensive teams and perhaps that is born out by the improved points haul at Selhurst.



I feel this change style is due to our rugged midfield three. Kouyate in particular has been a revelation for me. He's not the best technical player and his passing range is limited, but he has pace, power and height in bundles and his closing down is exceptional. McArthur, McCarthy and Luka don't quite have his athleticism but both are scrappy, tenacious players that contest every ball in the middle and have decent passing range and it's that fight in the middle that is keeping us competitive. It's going to be hard for the more 'creative' players to break into that midfield and I think I'm with Roy on this one.

Spot on we need to realise that without penetration up front the midfield is where we have to be offensive and an ability to retain possession and pass reasonably accurately is essential . I see in the first half we had 60% possession not sure what the final figures were but this is a big departure from previous seasons.
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:32 PM
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The thing about this league is any team, even the lower placed teams can punish you. Obvs, we've only lost two games this season and one was Sheffield United. In that game we started with Meyer, Benteke and Townsend, two of which were subbed and arguably so should have been the third. Those three haven't been in the side since and the run has been very good - aside from Tottenham where we were shelled shocked into a very uncharacteristic performance.

What I notice at the moment is that a) the team is keeping possession better b) we're turning over the ball more regularly higher up the pitch c) we aren't scoring much from classic counter attacks, ie galloping towards the goal from our own half, we're scoring scrappier goals following a degree of pressure. This style of play should still work at home and against more defensive teams and perhaps that is born out by the improved points haul at Selhurst.

I feel this change style is due to our rugged midfield three. Kouyate in particular has been a revelation for me. He's not the best technical player and his passing range is limited, but he has pace, power and height in bundles and his closing down is exceptional. McArthur, McCarthy and Luka don't quite have his athleticism but both are scrappy, tenacious players that contest every ball in the middle and have decent passing range and it's that fight in the middle that is keeping us competitive. It's going to be hard for the more 'creative' players to break into that midfield and I think I'm with Roy on this one.
All I would say is that argument is highly persuasive since how we play is largely, and currently, working.

Whether it can over an entire season, with all the ups and downs ( and we've had almost all 'ups' rather than 'downs' when it comes to the rub of the green so far ) that arrive, is another matter. It wouldn't take many ref decisions and small changes in fortune for us to be on far less points than we have.

Being objective, we should be looking like the better team when we win more often than we currently do. We won many of our games last season in style and without the narrowness by which we are doing so this season. I have no doubt that, should we go on a run where those tiny margins turn against us instead of for us, the subject as to how to improve creativity will soon be one that can permissibly be raised without some here calling it 'negative.'

It's not that winning like we are isn't pleasing ( any win against the Wankers or Sham is pleasing! ) but it just doesn't feel sustainable. Because we have underinvested and the squad is thin, we should grab points by any means we can and the argument not to change a currently winning formula makes sense. I just don't think it will last and we'll be back to discussing how to make the midfield more creative in time to come. I will admit we passed the ball far better today with McCarthy and without Luka but that was against a team that didn't press much. I'd just feel better if we looked like the better team whilst winning, just once in a while, and scored a few more goals that didn't come from scrapping rather than guile.
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:33 PM
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I'm not being negative, I'm looking forward, we have momentum and I'd like to see the team grow to be able to do more than just make it tough for opponents, win penalties and get the odd goal here and there.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:23 PM
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I think posing the question about lack of creativity is a genuine one, but got to say, what puzzles me is to post it up within 10 minutes of a fantastic, late and unexpected victory that finds us in a giddy fourth place.

alanlee11...do you not feel like sitting back and savouring the wave of joy for a bit before ripping the arse out of it? These moments don’t come by often as Palace fans. Free country and free speech and all that, but the timing is a bit weird is it not? Enjoy it man

What are you going to do if we finally win the FA Cup? Post a thread within 10 mins of Luca lifting the cup, ‘One major trophy in 115 years - it’s just not good enough!’
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:35 PM
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I think posing the question about lack of creativity is a genuine one, but got to say, what puzzles me is to post it up within 10 minutes of a fantastic, late and unexpected victory that finds us in a giddy fourth place.

alanlee11...do you not feel like sitting back and savouring the wave of joy for a bit before ripping the arse out of it? These moments don’t come by often as Palace fans. Free country and free speech and all that, but the timing is a bit weird is it not? Enjoy it man

What are you going to do if we finally win the FA Cup? Post a thread within 10 mins of Luca lifting the cup, ‘One major trophy in 115 years - it’s just not good enough!’
I think anyone being negative if we lifted the FA Cup would be more than a little strange! But we are fourth place after just eight games. Sure, it's better than a kick in the balls but doesn't change the manner in which we play or how we are winning. We don't look like a team that is doing as well as we are and I don't see how it's wrong to talk about it now. Not that I'm not basking in the glow of having beaten Spam and Wankers, two of the three teams I despise most. I just wish the signs on the pitch ( aside from the defence, which has looked supreme ) were as good as they are on the table. But it's been a great day, aside from the Weed winning.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:39 PM
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Brilliant win tonight, no doubt about that.

However, how many more games do we have to suffer for 70-80 minutes (luckily getting penalties) before we actually add some creativity to our midfield?

Two weeks now Andros has contributed significantly to goals from open play.

Roy has got to try adding more creativity into midfield. Who do you think drops out after the international break? Personally just can't see MM or VC ever starting for Palace again without an injury forcing Roy's hand.

I'm delighted with our form this season but I'd love to see this team reach it's potential and start playing some exciting football, at a higher tempo.
Pretty sure Stoke fans wanted a bit more creativity a few years ago...
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Old 05-10-2019, 11:43 PM
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What's that, roughly 10 mins after full time in a game we won with a late winner and there's a thread bemoaning the lack of midfield creativity? When the full time whistle blew I was ecstatic, poured more drinks for myself and my brother in law, tucked into the takeaway that had been getting cold for 10 mins, and talked about what a good game it was, but each to their own.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:05 AM
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I don't think it's negative. Just a realistic opinion from someone not getting carried away with the points total after a few games and seeing some questionable performances. People are emotionally sophisticated enough to enjoy wins and still perform objective analysis.

I find this thread much more palatable than the usual ones which only get bumped up when we win and the ones which only get bumped up when we lose.

For people who only want to read pro-Palace opinions with no negatively perceived posts, I would avoid the BBS and just follow the club's social media accounts.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:28 AM
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There are many of us on here who would echo those sentiments of seeing a Palace team with more creativity and bit more skill, and players like Meyer and Camarasa would do precisely that. However, what Roy would say is his methods has proven works to suit what he wants from his team playing with solidity and workrate rather than with creativity and skill, and if proof is to be based on his teams final positions since him joining of 11th,12th and currently we sit 4th, especially when having to cope with a team that has lacked a goalscorer for the past TWO seasons, makes the decision making he has taken a very strong case to argue against.
But whatever the reasons he has chosen Not to pick Camarasa to date to me is a mystery, as we know he has been the type of midfielder we have needed and scores goals which is a bonus for a club whose Strikers do Not score, importantly has proven he can produce performances in the premiership even when playing in a very poor side like Cardiff. If we are to progress like teams like Leicester has, then we need to be more progressive in our thinking and ambitions and players like Meyer and Camarasa will aid that especially if played with the right players alongside that would complement their style.
Maybe it will need Roy's retirement to see that happen, but for now how can we knock RH methods as he does what he says on the tin.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:31 AM
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"I want creativity"
*Team announced*
"Ffs boring Roy so negative"
*Palace win*

I rather like this cycle atm, long may it continue. Not that pretty to watch at times, but it's almost like Roy knows what he's doing (Palace 3rd in the form table in 2019).

Alternatively, we could have created the 3rd most chances in the league, like Watford, and be bottom, like Watford.
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