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  #2141  
Old 07-04-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1980
If we get put into administration then we cheated. It's one thing having a sugar daddy spending his own money, thats his choice. If you then start spending money that he hasn't got then too right thats cheating. The sister company to the company that I work for is a supplier of Brighton, why on earth should they end up paying anything towards Brighton just because they give them credit for what they buy of them? It's theft pure and simple.
You didn't answer my question. In fact you ducked it.

Let's break it down as I want to have you on record at which point you are saying you will have been cheating from.

In a few years from now, Mr Bloom gets a small loan (from a bank, an equity provider, it doesn't matter) for a few million (small in comparison to the tens of millions he has put in). It's a standard business practise to free up some liquidity and no one bats an eyelid.

A few years later, there is a financial crisis impacting on Mr Blooms businesses. Despite his assets, he does not have the money immediately available to repay the loan, which the lenders (nervous by the crisis) are demanding. The lenders therefore put Brighton into administration.

What I want to know from you is, at what point are Brighton a bunch of cheats?

Were you cheats before you ever took out the loan? Making your promotion to the championship, your new stadium, everything since Bloom arrived a product of cheating.

Or were you cheats the moment you took out the loan?

Or would you only be cheats from the moment you were placed into administration?
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  #2142  
Old 07-04-2013, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1980
I agree that it isn't the fault of the fans, but it most definatly is cheating you can't get penalised for something (10 point deduction) unless people see it as cheating.
Penalties for getting things wrong yes, it's not cheating, only Brighton fans have that view.
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  #2143  
Old 07-04-2013, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuddy
Your last paragraph makes me chuckle. To come out of administration we had to have a CVA agreement whereby we had to come to a deal with our creditors where they would accept a percentage of the monies owed to them. That agreement was reached by all parties. Plenty of fans & people hammer us & any other club who have to go down that road.

Brighton came to an agreement with their creditors to only pay them a percentage of what they were owed. Agreement was reached by all parties. Surprise surprise you & all other brighton fans say this isn't classed as cheating, not paying all the debt & not living beyond your means. Not so nice when boots on the other foot mate.

Now I know bloom is lifelong fan blah blah blah. I hope for your sake things pan out as you all hope but never ever forget nobody can tell what will happen in the future but if he ever calls in the debt it even a % of it you are well & truly stuffed.
That the reason why I said I agree to a certain extent. The difference to me is that if they don't agree the CVA then the club gets liquidated, while if they didn't agree with Brighton then its not so final, therefore there is more pressure on agreeing the CVA than what Brighton did.

I also hope Bloom isn't being an idiot as I say as far as I'm concerened administration is cheating no if or but, if you spend someone elses money who didn't want their money spent by you, then its cheating.
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  #2144  
Old 07-04-2013, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penstone Eagle
Penalties for getting things wrong yes, it's not cheating, only Brighton fans have that view.
Are you kidding me, go on any fans forum and ask if administration is cheating and I am sure you will find most people think it is.
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Before Andy claims that I think what how Bloom runs the club is wrong - that isn't something I've ever believed. I'm happy for the fool to waste as much money as he wants on this vanity project, even if it means losing 40m in one season on a shit or bust roll of the dice for promotion.

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  #2145  
Old 07-04-2013, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4
You didn't answer my question. In fact you ducked it.

Let's break it down as I want to have you on record at which point you are saying you will have been cheating from.

In a few years from now, Mr Bloom gets a small loan (from a bank, an equity provider, it doesn't matter) for a few million (small in comparison to the tens of millions he has put in). It's a standard business practise to free up some liquidity and no one bats an eyelid.

A few years later, there is a financial crisis impacting on Mr Blooms businesses. Despite his assets, he does not have the money immediately available to repay the loan, which the lenders (nervous by the crisis) are demanding. The lenders therefore put Brighton into administration.

What I want to know from you is, at what point are Brighton a bunch of cheats?

Were you cheats before you ever took out the loan? Making your promotion to the championship, your new stadium, everything since Bloom arrived a product of cheating.

Or were you cheats the moment you took out the loan?

Or would you only be cheats from the moment you were placed into administration?
You are cheating the moment you can't pay it back.. If Tony took out a 5 million loan in Brightons name for the club, and he had a personal wealth of 5 million or more then he isn't cheating. If he has no money and Brighton is making a loss and he takes out a 5 million loan then his cheating.
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Before Andy claims that I think what how Bloom runs the club is wrong - that isn't something I've ever believed. I'm happy for the fool to waste as much money as he wants on this vanity project, even if it means losing 40m in one season on a shit or bust roll of the dice for promotion.

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  #2146  
Old 07-04-2013, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1980
You are cheating the moment you can't pay it back.. If Tony took out a 5 million loan in Brightons name for the club, and he had a personal wealth of 5 million or more then he isn't cheating. If he has no money and Brighton is making a loss and he takes out a 5 million loan then his cheating.
So Palace were only "cheating" at the moment they were asked to pay it back. Glad we got that sorted.
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  #2147  
Old 07-04-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4
So Palace were only "cheating" at the moment they were asked to pay it back. Glad we got that sorted.
The moment Jordan couldn't pay it back, we are never going to know at what point that was.
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Before Andy claims that I think what how Bloom runs the club is wrong - that isn't something I've ever believed. I'm happy for the fool to waste as much money as he wants on this vanity project, even if it means losing 40m in one season on a shit or bust roll of the dice for promotion.

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  #2148  
Old 07-04-2013, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1980
The moment Jordan couldn't pay it back, we are never going to know at what point that was.
So, taking out a loan is fine so long as, at the time you take it out, you have the capacity to pay it back.

But if external events at any time after you took it out mean you suddenly don't have the capacity to pay it back, you're a cheat?

What if you take out a loan in month 1 when you have the capacity to pay it back, but in month 2 something happens and you don't have the capacity to pay it back, but thankfully they don't ask and by month 3 you are fine again and have the capacity to pay it back? Were you just a cheat in month 2 or are you also a cheat in month 3 because there existed a moment in time when, if asked, you wouldn't have been able to pay, even though you were never asked?
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  #2149  
Old 07-04-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4
So, taking out a loan is fine so long as, at the time you take it out, you have the capacity to pay it back.

But if external events at any time after you took it out mean you suddenly don't have the capacity to pay it back, you're a cheat?

What if you take out a loan in month 1 when you have the capacity to pay it back, but in month 2 something happens and you don't have the capacity to pay it back, but thankfully they don't ask and by month 3 you are fine again and have the capacity to pay it back? Were you just a cheat in month 2 or are you also a cheat in month 3 because there existed a moment in time when, if asked, you wouldn't have been able to pay, even though you were never asked?
I know what you are saying, but not being able to pay of 1 month but the other month you can, doesn't really mean you cant afford it does it? Maybe that person terms of repayment was just wrong. Do you really think that group didn't give Jordan a chance to get the money in, afterall if he managed to get other investors in then all would have been well again.
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Before Andy claims that I think what how Bloom runs the club is wrong - that isn't something I've ever believed. I'm happy for the fool to waste as much money as he wants on this vanity project, even if it means losing 40m in one season on a shit or bust roll of the dice for promotion.

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  #2150  
Old 07-04-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1980
You are cheating the moment you can't pay it back.. If Tony took out a 5 million loan in Brightons name for the club, and he had a personal wealth of 5 million or more then he isn't cheating. If he has no money and Brighton is making a loss and he takes out a 5 million loan then his cheating.

Taking advantage of a system that allows the money to be lent to him to keep things going would not be cheating
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  #2151  
Old 07-04-2013, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penstone Eagle
Taking advantage of a system that allows the money to be lent to him to keep things going would not be cheating
Maybe to a certain point but under circumstances of a club looseing money and owner has no money, do you really believe that isn't cheating?
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Before Andy claims that I think what how Bloom runs the club is wrong - that isn't something I've ever believed. I'm happy for the fool to waste as much money as he wants on this vanity project, even if it means losing 40m in one season on a shit or bust roll of the dice for promotion.

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  #2152  
Old 07-04-2013, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1980
The administration is cheating, I know most of the money was owed to Jordan but other people lost money too who didn't want to.
FFS. Don't you get it. If Bloom decided to be a Palace fan and ask for his money and put you into Admin then suddenly you are cheating ? All clubs are living outside their means ? Its like saying burglary is only bad when you get caught.
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  #2153  
Old 07-04-2013, 10:59 AM
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People, it's a waste of time arguing with Andy, he has his own agenda re anything Palace, he is totally obsessed with us, we are his 2nd or 3rd team,. He will spin anything and every thing towards making the weeds look completely above board in finances while at the same time making out that we are on the verge of financial meltdown. You may just as well have a discussion with a breeze block....
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  #2154  
Old 07-04-2013, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglejez
FFS. Don't you get it. If Bloom decided to be a Palace fan and ask for his money and put you into Admin then suddenly you are cheating ? All clubs are living outside their means ? Its like saying burglary is only bad when you get caught.
Don't you get it, all the money is owed to Bloom he is the only one that would loose anything if we went into admin (we would have to cut back that 9 million a year though, so it would be a lot different to now). Whats the burglary thing about. Are you saying you can steal something of yourself?
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Before Andy claims that I think what how Bloom runs the club is wrong - that isn't something I've ever believed. I'm happy for the fool to waste as much money as he wants on this vanity project, even if it means losing 40m in one season on a shit or bust roll of the dice for promotion.

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  #2155  
Old 07-04-2013, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusheslake
People, it's a waste of time arguing with Andy, he has his own agenda re anything Palace, he is totally obsessed with us, we are his 2nd or 3rd team,. He will spin anything and every thing towards making the weeds look completely above board in finances while at the same time making out that we are on the verge of financial meltdown. You may just as well have a discussion with a breeze block....
Where have I said you are on the verge of financial meltdown? We are talking about if administration is cheating.
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Before Andy claims that I think what how Bloom runs the club is wrong - that isn't something I've ever believed. I'm happy for the fool to waste as much money as he wants on this vanity project, even if it means losing 40m in one season on a shit or bust roll of the dice for promotion.

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  #2156  
Old 07-04-2013, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusheslake
People, it's a waste of time arguing with Andy, he has his own agenda re anything Palace, he is totally obsessed with us, we are his 2nd or 3rd team,. He will spin anything and every thing towards making the weeds look completely above board in finances while at the same time making out that we are on the verge of financial meltdown. You may just as well have a discussion with a breeze block....
Good to see you posting without name calling or swearing, much more in keeping with a man of your advancing years, well done.
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  #2157  
Old 07-04-2013, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1980
Don't you get it, all the money is owed to Bloom he is the only one that would loose anything if we went into admin (we would have to cut back that 9 million a year though, so it would be a lot different to now). Whats the burglary thing about. Are you saying you can steal something of yourself?
This is why i don't get involved with this lot over Blooms spending power and what we owe him. You tell them the answer and if they don't like it they will continue the same drivel. It really feels like you are potty training with these idiots.

Bloom has built up the BHA empire with his OWN MONEY, NO LOANS OR INTERESTS.

If for some god forsaken reason this Bloom project goes all tits up the stadium will always be there and so to will the new 25 million pound training ground.


The infrastructure to our club has been laid for decades. It really isn't hard to grasp is it?
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  #2158  
Old 07-04-2013, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relegatedeagle
Good to see you posting without name calling or swearing, much more in keeping with a man of your advancing years, well done.

Funny enough i was going to post the same thing yesterday.

It's never to late to learn something new. I'm feeling rather pleased with myself he has taken our advice.
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Attendances jump from a regular 15,000 to 24,000 in one season. Where were they before?

http://www.european-football-statist...nclub/cryp.htm
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Londoner
Funny enough i was going to post the same thing yesterday.

It's never to late to learn something new. I'm feeling rather pleased with myself he has taken our advice.
Did I ask you,? No thought not..
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:46 AM
rusheslake rusheslake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Londoner
This is why i don't get involved with this lot over Blooms spending power and what we owe him. You tell them the answer and if they don't like it they will continue the same drivel. It really feels like you are potty training with these idiots.

Bloom has built up the BHA empire with his OWN MONEY, NO LOANS OR INTERESTS.

If for some god forsaken reason this Bloom project goes all tits up the stadium will always be there and so to will the new 25 million pound training ground.


The infrastructure to our club has been laid for decades. It really isn't hard to grasp is it?
And you know all this how? 9 million pounds is quite a lot of money to lose
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