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View Poll Results: Who do you want as Labour leader?
Rebecca Long Bailey 31 8.24%
Angela Rayner 23 6.12%
Jess Phillips 95 25.27%
Keir Starmer 140 37.23%
Emily Thornberry 23 6.12%
Other (name them in thread) 64 17.02%
Voters: 376. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
Long-ish odds against Yvette Cooper, I would have thought sheíd be most likely to actually win an election, out of those names.
Yep - Lisa Nandy would be my choice - from Wigan and itís vital they look to appeal to the northern rust belt rather then north London crusties
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  #82  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Langers View Post
... the northern rust belt ...
Ouch. We're in US Democratic "hand-wringing at our own failure" territory here.
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  #83  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
After last night someone had to tell the truth. There are seats the working class seats Labour should represent who gave a very clear message. The Labour of Corbyn the Labour of the cult the Labour of Momentum you do not represent us.
The warnings the signs were there and ignored. Watching last night the denials it was all Brexit might play to the metroplitain Labour supporters. Its denial something that we have seen in antisemitism the fingers in the ears. The MSM blame anyone you like. Unless and until the truth is faced Labour will be in the wilderness. The working class rejected it last night it will continue to do so until Labour changes.
Canít both things be true? I reckon the Brexit policy lost Labour a shitload of seats in the north.
You canít approve a referendum and then not execute the result.
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  #84  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
The working classes (me included) will benefit from an alternative to the left. I believe that and I'm not going to stop making that case. The likes of Alan Johnson are utter hypocrites for suggesting that a group like Momentum are a cult when he himself is showing he is completely intolerant of views further to the left.
Your ďalternativeĒ gave us years of Thatcher. And will now give us a decade of the most right wing Tory government since.

How about winning power and then making the arguments about what will benefit the working class, rather than choosing vastly unpopular leaders the public hates and gifting the conservatives election wins?

Itís not like there werenít tons of people warning this would happen. Just look at the early pages of the Corbyn thread. Everyone warning he was a disaster was right. Warning that people couldnít afford the hard left indulging itself. Yet Labour members knew better and elected Corbyn twice.

And this morning we hear from so many that theyíve no regrets. Amazing.
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  #85  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Labour's problem: Ideological purity > winning an election
I'm not a member. It's not up to me. I'm just giving my view that Alsn Johnson's comments are hypocritical, whether you agree with him or not.
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  #86  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
Why? Johnson is neither of those and has smashed the North.

It needs to be Blair Mk II - an election winner. Male or female, Northern or Southern, it doesn't matter. They need to be able to deal with the press, be charismatic, lead the party.
Having watched numerous Commons debates in recent months the women in the party have come across as more caring and passionate and not afraid to disagree with Corbyn. Cooper, Rachel Reeves and Rayner would all take the fight to Johnson.
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  #87  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:41 AM
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Odds have tightened a lot. Starmer 2:1 favourite, Long Bailey 4:1. The value bet is Starmer for next PM at 9:1. Like others I'm surprised Cooper isn't doing better. I'd like a woman leader but from what I know so far I think Starmer is probably the best person for the job. To view the link you have to Register or Login

I appear to have already broken my resolution to not care about politics for the next 5 years. Back to work...
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  #88  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:43 AM
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  #89  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
Your “alternative” gave us years of Thatcher. And will now give us a decade of the most right wing Tory government since.

How about winning power and then making the arguments about what will benefit the working class, rather than choosing vastly unpopular leaders the public hates and gifting the conservatives election wins?

It’s not like there weren’t tons of people warning this would happen. Just look at the early pages of the Corbyn thread. Everyone warning he was a disaster was right. Warning that people couldn’t afford the hard left indulging itself. Yet Labour members knew better and elected Corbyn twice.

And this morning we hear from so many that they’ve no regrets. Amazing.
I believe that Brexit was the overriding factor in this election. Obviously having Corbyn as leader is not working but I think the idea that someone else would magically be better is crazy. That and we'd still have some slightly iffy policies.
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  #90  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle View Post
Tony Blair. (200/1)
Yes please. People who day he is a tory - not this current bunch he isn't.
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  #91  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
I believe that Brexit was the overriding factor in this election. Obviously having Corbyn as leader is not working but I think the idea that someone else would magically be better is crazy.
Go and look at Corbynís approval rating.

That was the factor. Not Brexit, not the NHS, not anything else. He was the most unpopular candidate in my lifetime and significantly more unpopular than his opponent (who is also disliked). Blair (once, I think against Howard) was the only leader to ever win despite being more unpopular. And the gap was far smaller.

The public donít like Corbyn and have never liked Corbyn and until Labour work out that who the public likes matters more than who Labour members like, Labour are in real trouble.

And there is absolutely no sign this morning that they are learning that lesson.
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  #92  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
I believe that Brexit was the overriding factor in this election. Obviously having Corbyn as leader is not working but I think the idea that someone else would magically be better is crazy. That and we'd still have some slightly iffy policies.
Even though there was overwhelming polling data that said the country really, really didnt like Corbyn.
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  #93  
Old 13-12-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dave_who_ru View Post
Having watched numerous Commons debates in recent months the women in the party have come across as more caring and passionate and not afraid to disagree with Corbyn. Cooper, Rachel Reeves and Rayner would all take the fight to Johnson.
So has Keir Starmer. I just don't think where you're born or whether you have a cock or not should come into it.
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  #94  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:00 AM
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Having a look at Twitter (yes, I know) it seems that a lot of Labour voters are still in denial about Corbyn. It seems like it is everyone's fault but his, even blaming Blair ffs.
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  #95  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
Go and look at Corbynís approval rating.

That was the factor. Not Brexit, not the NHS, not anything else. He was the most unpopular candidate in my lifetime and significantly more unpopular than his opponent (who is also disliked). Blair (once, I think against Howard) was the only leader to ever win despite being more unpopular. And the gap was far smaller.

The public donít like Corbyn and have never liked Corbyn and until Labour work out that who the public likes matters more than who Labour members like, Labour are in real trouble.

And there is absolutely no sign this morning that they are learning that lesson.
Certainly wouldn't disagree about it being one of the factors, but it definitely wasn't the only factor. However, Brexit is the overriding thing I have seen/heard people saying about their votes for the Conservatives, yes a dislike of Corbyn is there too, and he was too divisive with a lot of traditional Labour voters, but I believe Brexit is the overriding factor
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  #96  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
Go and look at Corbynís approval rating.

That was the factor. Not Brexit, not the NHS, not anything else. He was the most unpopular candidate in my lifetime and significantly more unpopular than his opponent (who is also disliked). Blair (once, I think against Howard) was the only leader to ever win despite being more unpopular. And the gap was far smaller.

The public donít like Corbyn and have never liked Corbyn and until Labour work out that who the public likes matters more than who Labour members like, Labour are in real trouble.

And there is absolutely no sign this morning that they are learning that lesson.
There were three factors

Brexit, Corbynís huge unpopularity, and the manifesto

Brexit and the Manifesto are a case of failing the keep it simple mentality. Corbyn is Corbyn and was always going to be a problem.
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  #97  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
Having a look at Twitter (yes, I know) it seems that a lot of Labour voters are still in denial about Corbyn. It seems like it is everyone's fault but his, even blaming Blair ffs.
Itís completely mental. The opposition have gone AWOL leaving the Tories unchecked.

The Tories have been tearing themselves apart over Brexit and still hammered Labour.
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  #98  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:08 AM
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If Labour actually want power then David Miliband is their best bet. Never going to happen in a million years though.
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  #99  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
I believe that Brexit was the overriding factor in this election. Obviously having Corbyn as leader is not working but I think the idea that someone else would magically be better is crazy. That and we'd still have some slightly iffy policies.
The trouble is Brexit will be used as the excuse and in part it is. However it's far deeper I lost out on well the wife did on the 30000 promised to Waspi women. It was crazy but it's far deeper changing Corbyn to a clone probably female will have no affect. Foots defeat in 1983 led to 14 more years of Thatcher. Corbyns will be worse unless Labour listen. There is no Kinnock to force the change needed. 600000 members is fine but they dont butter no parsnips. It honestly breaks my heart the party I loved is being destroyed the entryism denied is visible for all to see. Its visible to the working class of the Midlands ,the North ,Wales ,Scotland it is not visible to the metroplitain Labour.
It's over or should be for another generation the far left need to crawl away exitism is needed.
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  #100  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:10 AM
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If it's solely about Corbyns popularity among the public, then why was there a big swing towards him two years ago - surely this would also have been seen then.
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