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View Poll Results: Who do you want as Labour leader?
Rebecca Long Bailey 31 8.24%
Angela Rayner 23 6.12%
Jess Phillips 95 25.27%
Keir Starmer 140 37.23%
Emily Thornberry 23 6.12%
Other (name them in thread) 64 17.02%
Voters: 376. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1001  
Old 21-12-2019, 07:33 AM
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Twitter seems just as full of zealous Corbynistas as ever before. I guess that’s what happens when you win the argument.







Does anyone really think that if Corbyn was standing again, he wouldn’t win?
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  #1002  
Old 21-12-2019, 07:38 AM
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I have to guess that Tom London is unaware that Jesus Christ was a Jew.
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  #1003  
Old 21-12-2019, 07:47 AM
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I have to guess that Tom London is unaware that Jesus Christ was a Jew.
And that Albert Einstein was a Zionist Jew.

And that Clement Attlee was the father of Britain’s nuclear arsenal.

And let’s not even get started on what George Orwell would have made of Seumas Milne et al
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  #1004  
Old 21-12-2019, 07:49 AM
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I have to guess that Tom London is unaware that Jesus Christ was a Jew.
And Einstein.
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  #1005  
Old 21-12-2019, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by se1eagle View Post
And that Albert Einstein was a Zionist Jew.

And that Clement Attlee was the father of Britain’s nuclear arsenal.

And let’s not even get started on what George Orwell would have made of Seumas Milne et al
That said hard to disagree with the guy.
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  #1006  
Old 21-12-2019, 07:54 AM
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It's amazing that so many in the Labour party will not accept what happened.
I voted Labour in spite of Corbyn, not because of him. Yes, he is a more decent
human being than Johnson, but so is nearly everyone.
I'm sure an awful lot of Labour voters, certainly this one, want the party to move
back to the centre ground and make them more electable.
But it seems to me, that momentum just don't care. They hate the only Labour leader
to have won elections since 1974. I'm sure they will have Long-Bailey as
the next leader, in a heartbeat. Oh yes, she looks the part, but she is basically
Corbyn in a skirt.
Yes, it's only the BBS, but this is meant to be a very 'lefty' forum, so it speaks volumes
that she has polled very few votes and I suspect some of those, are from the likes of Skint !
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  #1007  
Old 21-12-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Maiden Eagle View Post
It's amazing that so many in the Labour party will not accept what happened.
I voted Labour in spite of Corbyn, not because of him. Yes, he is a more decent
human being than Johnson, but so is nearly everyone.
I'm sure an awful lot of Labour voters, certainly this one, want the party to move
back to the centre ground and make them more electable.
But it seems to me, that momentum just don't care. They hate the only Labour leader
to have won elections since 1974. I'm sure they will have Long-Bailey as
the next leader, in a heartbeat. Oh yes, she looks the part, but she is basically
Corbyn in a skirt.
Yes, it's only the BBS, but this is meant to be a very 'lefty' forum, so it speaks volumes
that she has polled very few votes and I suspect some of those, are from the likes of Skint !
I would too have voted Labour, in spite of Corbyn, but voted tactically for the LibDems. Sadly, on this occasion it didn't work. However, I like the manifesto, and whoever stands again for the leadership has to stand on that again for me, and not drift back to the centre.

This was an unusual election called on the basis of "getting Brexit done", and we knew from polling that around 30% of voters were reckless enough to support a no deal exit. This meant that despite the potential of self harm, the high leave areas in Labour heartlands were prepared to vote for a party that would unambiguously deliver the referendum result whatever the circumstances and downsides. Add to this the unpopularity of Corbyn and his alleged "baggage" enhanced and/or exaggerated by the demonising strategy of the media, then the result is not at all surprising.

So for all these reasons, I think Keir Starmer, is the best candidate. He has already said publicly this week that the party should resist a move back to the centre ground. This means the manifesto, elements of which are quite popular in the country as a whole, would largely remain intact under his stewardship. He also has impeccable credentials, is intelligent and respected widely, and has no political baggage. He dealt with Barclay on Brexit issues very effectively and articulately in parliament, and has good presence, no doubt from his legal experience and qualifications. No contest in my book, and my left leaning family and friends think the same.
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  #1008  
Old 21-12-2019, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
I would too have voted Labour, in spite of Corbyn, but voted tactically for the LibDems. Sadly, on this occasion it didn't work. However, I like the manifesto, and whoever stands again for the leadership has to stand on that again for me, and not drift back to the centre.

This was an unusual election called on the basis of "getting Brexit done", and we knew from polling that around 30% of voters were reckless enough to support a no deal exit. This meant that despite the potential of self harm, the high leave areas in Labour heartlands were prepared to vote for a party that would unambiguously deliver the referendum result whatever the circumstances and downsides. Add to this the unpopularity of Corbyn and his alleged "baggage" enhanced and/or exaggerated by the demonising strategy of the media, then the result is not at all surprising.

So for all these reasons, I think Keir Starmer, is the best candidate. He has already said publicly this week that the party should resist a move back to the centre ground. This means the manifesto, elements of which are quite popular in the country as a whole, would largely remain intact under his stewardship. He also has impeccable credentials, is intelligent and respected widely, and has no political baggage. He dealt with Barclay on Brexit issues very effectively and articulately in parliament, and has good presence, no doubt from his legal experience and qualifications. No contest in my book, and my left leaning family and friends think the same.
Think you have convinced me here although I voted for Jess in the poll.
Above all else, labour need a leader who is electable and Keir Starmer is a standout candidate. He will have his detractors in the labour heartlands that they need to win back I.e. that he is a London MP and he backed remain. He lacks charisma but his integrity will stand out against Boris once the lies are uncovered, people cant get a doctors appointment etc...
The only other candidate I can see who is electable is Yvette Cooper although I think the media will more easily do a job on her, like they did with Corbyn.
As much as I too like the manifesto I think they have to ditch the dream of nationalisation, stick to workers rights, good education for all, the nhs, elderly social care....but its a rebuild job
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  #1009  
Old 21-12-2019, 09:33 AM
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Cooper with one of the younger women as her deputy and Starmer as Shadow Chancellor might work.

Keep the core manifesto and dump the BOGOF offers. I would still consider nationalising the railways as and when each franchise expires.
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  #1010  
Old 21-12-2019, 09:34 AM
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Think you have convinced me here although I voted for Jess in the poll.
Above all else, labour need a leader who is electable and Keir Starmer is a standout candidate. He will have his detractors in the labour heartlands that they need to win back I.e. that he is a London MP and he backed remain. He lacks charisma but his integrity will stand out against Boris once the lies are uncovered, people cant get a doctors appointment etc...
The only other candidate I can see who is electable is Yvette Cooper although I think the media will more easily do a job on her, like they did with Corbyn.
As much as I too like the manifesto I think they have to ditch the dream of nationalisation, stick to workers rights, good education for all, the nhs, elderly social care....but its a rebuild job
I would broadly agree with this, but wonder whether the fact that he not only backed remain, but was still clearly in favour of remain in the election campaign will count against him. I think that could be a fatal blow, and something that the media will be able to use to "do a job" on him. If he can get past that though, he is certainly an exceptional candidate even allowing for the lack of charisma, and the contrast with Boris as the chickens start to come home to roost (as they have already started to if you look closely enough) will be remarkable.

I was also quite keen on Clive Lewis, but his talk in the Guardian about "unleashing" the membership worries me. In many ways, that big membership that Corbyn fans in particular go on about is Labours biggest problem right now, and a key task for any leader will be effectively managing that. The last thing Labour needs is a leader who will pander to that group.

So Starmer along with Lisa Nandy would be my picks. I think I would probably go with Nandy of the two (in some ways reluctantly as I think Starmer is the brighter), as she has more credibility with the voters Labour has to win back. Having voted remain but then taken a clear line of "respecting the referendum" probably gives her cover for all eventualities in terms of presenting herself as being on the right side of the argument
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  #1011  
Old 21-12-2019, 09:47 AM
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With Starmer or Nandy you will get a move to the right in terms of the manifesto. Whether you agree with that or not is another thing, but it will happen. Nandy spoke at a Blue Labour event, and awful faction in Labour.

I actually don’t get what people see in Starmer. He’s got no charisma and isn’t good with the media.

In terms of twitter does that really represent anything? You’ll get all kinds of crap. Most people I know on the left recognise there were things wrong.

Off the top of my head.

1) the triangulation over Brexit. Despite being a strong Remain supporter myself I would rather corbyn had been honest and backed a labour Brexit than triangulation.

2) employing Stalinists in his office, Milne and Murray (and now RLB has apparently done it with Alex Halligan, and I no longer support her).

3) a manifesto that was too long and not focused. Personally I would have ditched the nationalisations other than rail, and used that money to say what factories would be built in towns via the green new deal.

4) not apologising for anti Semitism immediately with Andrew Neil and despite that I think the issue was weaponised for underhand reasons by some, I do also think it was a genuine issue, and more should have been done earlier to stamp it out.
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  #1012  
Old 21-12-2019, 09:55 AM
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Well if you did, you clearly haven't understood any of it.

It is odd for someone who claims to have a science degree to struggle as much as you do with the interpretation of data.

And Secondary Moderns? Really?.
I've no idea what you are on about, you can't deny the data.

I know improving uk education doesn't help your "its all the fault of the tories" mantra but there it is.

Only on the BBS is it necessary to apologise for improving education standards. As for parents they'd do anything rather than send their kids to local comprehensive. Move house, start with holy communion, anything.
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  #1013  
Old 21-12-2019, 09:59 AM
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With Starmer or Nandy you will get a move to the right in terms of the manifesto. Whether you agree with that or not is another thing, but it will happen. Nandy spoke at a Blue Labour event, and awful faction in Labour.

I actually don’t get what people see in Starmer. He’s got no charisma and isn’t good with the media.

In terms of twitter does that really represent anything? You’ll get all kinds of crap. Most people I know on the left recognise there were things wrong.

Off the top of my head.

1) the triangulation over Brexit. Despite being a strong Remain supporter myself I would rather corbyn had been honest and backed a labour Brexit than triangulation.

2) employing Stalinists in his office, Milne and Murray (and now RLB has apparently done it with Alex Halligan, and I no longer support her).

3) a manifesto that was too long and not focused. Personally I would have ditched the nationalisations other than rail, and used that money to say what factories would be built in towns via the green new deal.

4) not apologising for anti Semitism immediately with Andrew Neil and despite that I think the issue was weaponised for underhand reasons by some, I do also think it was a genuine issue, and more should have been done earlier to stamp it out.
I would actually agree with most of this. And in terms of what went wrong, this is actually a pretty good summary. I also agree about Starmer lacking charisma. But he is an honourable guy, and frankly so much more intelligent than pretty much all of the other candidates. He's also explicitly ruled out going to far back to the centre.

But yes, with either Nandy or Starmer, you will have a manifesto less to the left than 2019 (and perhaps 2017). Personally I think that is a good thing. Personally, somewhere between 2015 and 17 would be "about right" for me, although I would happily vote for wither of those manifestos with the right leader (2019, no way. In part for your reason 3 above, but also as it simply wasn't' credible economically, as confirmed by independent sources) .

I appreciate you don't agree with the idea that Labour has to row back a bit from it's curent position (although to be clear, I'm not advocating a return to new labour either). I guess ultimately, that is what the campaign will be fought on
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  #1014  
Old 21-12-2019, 10:43 AM
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I really now wonder if there is such a thing as a 'Labour movement'.


Nor am I sure that the tensions between the right and the left of the party are fixeable. This is maybe a party that needs to split.

There was, lets not forget Labour was a child of the unions designed to improve the lot of the urban worker.

The concept of the downtrodden urban worker has waned as factories have moved to the far east. Various left wing factions such as Marxists, Stalinists, Fabians, the Militant tendency and lately Momentum are using it for their own largely theoretical political purposes and the unions only have a third of the voting block.
Its hardly surprising the working class, not that they exist in the same way as in the past, are losing interest.
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Old 21-12-2019, 10:46 AM
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That's a new one on me !


You hate Labour Party members more than the Tories...
You've not worked out the Cocker hates everyone. All we hear is what he doesn't like I can't remember anything he does.
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Old 21-12-2019, 10:46 AM
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Only on the BBS is it necessary to apologise for improving education standards. As for parents they'd do anything rather than send their kids to local comprehensive. Move house, start with holy communion, anything.
more BS from shitforbrainsagain....
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Old 21-12-2019, 10:54 AM
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Cooper with one of the younger women as her deputy and Starmer as Shadow Chancellor might work.

Keep the core manifesto and dump the BOGOF offers. I would still consider nationalising the railways as and when each franchise expires.
^this
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Old 21-12-2019, 12:12 PM
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There was, lets not forget Labour was a child of the unions designed to improve the lot of the urban worker.

The concept of the downtrodden urban worker has waned as factories have moved to the far east. Various left wing factions such as Marxists, Stalinists, Fabians, the Militant tendency and lately Momentum are using it for their own largely theoretical political purposes and the unions only have a third of the voting block.
Its hardly surprising the working class, not that they exist in the same way as in the past, are losing interest.
I pretty much agree with this as an overview. Within that framework Momentum are pretty much in control aided and abetted by Len McCluskey and the Unite union. Corbyn has not done what any previous leader would have done after such a calamitous election result and resigned immediately whilst the main architects of it, Milne and Murphy still have there senior positions and it's starting to look like there may be a purge of the lower ranks.

With this in mind it appears that orchestration of Rebecca Long-Bailey's succession to the leadership is well in train. 'Corbyn in a skirt' (copyright Maiden Eagle) is not necessarily a bad thing though. She has little baggage other than being a loyal Corbynite and she can hardly be a less impressive figure at the dispatch box than her predecessor. What will be interesting is the makeup of the Shadow cabinet. She will definitely need to get Yvette Cooper back in the front line - she has been wasted sitting on the backbenches for far too long.
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Old 21-12-2019, 02:59 PM
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Still generalising about a “community” from a tiny number of people.
Do you never generalise?
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Old 21-12-2019, 03:50 PM
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I'd be curious to see a poll of who Labour members want as leader and who the general public think would do a good job. I think they might be different.
Haven't we just had a rather large one ?
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