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View Poll Results: Who do you want as Labour leader?
Rebecca Long Bailey 31 8.24%
Angela Rayner 23 6.12%
Jess Phillips 95 25.27%
Keir Starmer 140 37.23%
Emily Thornberry 23 6.12%
Other (name them in thread) 64 17.02%
Voters: 376. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
If it's solely about Corbyns popularity among the public, then why was there a big swing towards him two years ago - surely this would also have been seen then.

Did you not read all the ratings of Corbyn?


Corbyn only did well in 2017 because of a) May's incompetence and b) Brexit plans were not so different back then.


Labour now need to understand the important difference between what activists want and what voters want.


But I do feel for cockneyrebel today. If he lived down the road, I'd nip down there and buy him a pint or two.
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  #102  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
If Labour actually want power then David Miliband is their best bet. Never going to happen in a million years though.
I've said many times on here he is ideal, him or Alan Johnson. But If they stay in their momentum bubble and choose a younger version of Corbyn who is equally Anti monarchy, pro IRA, Pro Hamas etc then they'll lose the next one as well.
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  #103  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:17 AM
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I think a competent moderate pro-remain labour leader could have

i) converted a load of labour-leavers to Remain

ii) forced the tories to publicly choose between a hardish brexit that would scare away remainers and clearly be Bad for Workers (helping i) or a softish brexit that would piss off the 'kippers and split the 'leave' vote

iii) crafted a public spending policy that would appeal to labour voters while also appealing to non-left remainers as "adtually less spending that the tories' Brexit cash bonfire"

iv) Shut the ******* **** up about ******* palestine

v) done backroom deals with libdems and europhile tories to try to get a second referendum.


But no, Jezza wanted Brexit because Socialism
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  #104  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
. Foots defeat in 1983 led to 14 more years of Thatcher. Corbyns will be worse unless Labour listen. There is no Kinnock to force the change needed. 600000 members is fine but they dont butter no parsnips. It honestly breaks my heart the party I loved is being destroyed the entryism denied is visible for all to see. Its visible to the working class of the Midlands ,the North ,Wales ,Scotland it is not visible to the metroplitain Labour.
It's over or should be for another generation the far left need to crawl away exitism is needed.
Working classes in the north are really soft Tories?
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  #105  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Did you not read all the ratings of Corbyn?


Corbyn only did well in 2017 because of a) May's incompetence and b) Brexit plans were not so different back then.


Labour now need to understand the important difference between what activists want and what voters want.


But I do feel for cockneyrebel today. If he lived down the road, I'd nip down there and buy him a pint or two.
Aw!

Iím ok. Itís grim but what can you do.

I guess the tories will now have to own Brexit. Thatís not a lot of consolation though.

If labour picks a centrist leader Iíll hand in my membership and leave them to it. We shall see.

Starmer has always seemed a strange potential choice to me. A bit like Mr Bean, no charisma at all, less than corbyn. And nothing much to say in terms of inspiration.
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  #106  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:20 AM
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I might be wrong but i seem to recall D. Milliband as a flagwaver for PPP schemes. Thats not to say he wouldn't be far more electable then Corbyn but he would need to show that his position on suh things has changed over time.
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  #107  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:24 AM
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Angela Raynor for me.

She's both a woman and working class, usually I dislike tokenism (coz its really counterproductive long term) but her becoming leader will a) counter/expose Johnson's privilege and b) for the apparent party of equality and social justice to have 25 odd years of white male toffs in the job just invites mockery.

She's a Corbynite which is needed to win over the membership (why Phillips and Benn who would both give Boris a jolly good run for his money in 2024 don't stand a chance) but she's young, she might be less stubborn than the hard left who are all 55+ and too set in their ways (dare I say a bit like a certain porcine based meal) she might be more inclined to listen to others and have a more ideologically diverse shadow cabinet. In fact her age is a bigger plus for me than her sex or class. Generally her being a Corybnite doesn't rule out her making the Labour party a broader church, a woman might be more likely to tell momentum to **** off as she'd have less patience with their misogynistic, incel attitudes.

Whoever wins it will probably be Labour's new Kinnock, given the thankless task of chipping away at Johnson's majority, Labour's next PM is probably someone we've never heard of.
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  #108  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Aw!

Iím ok. Itís grim but what can you do.

I guess the tories will now have to own Brexit. Thatís not a lot of consolation though.

If labour picks a centrist leader Iíll hand in my membership and leave them to it. We shall see.

Starmer has always seemed a strange potential choice to me. A bit like Mr Bean, no charisma at all, less than corbyn. And nothing much to say in terms of inspiration.
Starmer is clearly not the right choice. I suspect anyone now is a holding role until Labour has a better feel of what the party will be dealing with at the next election and can pick someone to face whatever that is. The difficulty is clearly no one knows when that will be as the Tories could repeal the fixed term parliaments act whenever it feels like it.
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  #109  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:26 AM
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Depressing response so far from the Corbyn gang. You had 4 years, there was some stuff that resonated, that can be taken forward. But move aside now. A lot of people supported Labour despite Corbyn. Time for Momentum to do the same, they have to support someone who isn't perfect for them. For the sake of the country give up. The talent in the Labour party is in the centre.

Worst case Long-Bailey or Rayner. Starmer or Nandy better. Best would be Cooper or Phillips. Jess Phillips in particular would be a bold choice, the anti-Johnson. But the membership probably hate her for having the temerity to question the great one.
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  #110  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
I might be wrong but i seem to recall D. Milliband as a flagwaver for PPP schemes. Thats not to say he wouldn't be far more electable then Corbyn but he would need to show that his position on suh things has changed over time.
PPP is a load of shite but its basically a purchasing strategy mistake.
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  #111  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Working classes in the north are really soft Tories?
Given the choice they faced they gave the answer they hinted in 2017 when despite being 50 seats behind the Torys it was considered a great victory by Labour.
They did in 1983 1987 1992. All the signs were there the hear see no other option by Labour members has ended up with the worse result since 1935. What Labour does now is critical if it fails to listen to this result then it face destruction
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  #112  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:29 AM
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If there is a crumb of comfort for Labour, It's the parallels with the Foot era. For Corbyn read Foot , For momentum read Tribune and after that disaster it lead to the rise of Blair/Brown and a more electable leader. But are there any reasonable MPs left ?
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  #113  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:35 AM
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Yeah, I doubt he'd give up his million a year refugee charity gig for the Labour job.

It's all about the easy $$$$$$$.

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If Labour actually want power then David Miliband is their best bet. Never going to happen in a million years though.
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  #114  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:38 AM
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  #115  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:44 AM
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David Milliband for me, if he can be talked back into politics.

What is Keir Starmer like? He seems to be the favourite at the moment, and he often seemed to me like he was just there rather than being a "Corbyn guy", but not sure what his political stance is like?
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  #116  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Poosence View Post
Depressing response so far from the Corbyn gang. You had 4 years, there was some stuff that resonated, that can be taken forward. But move aside now. A lot of people supported Labour despite Corbyn. Time for Momentum to do the same, they have to support someone who isn't perfect for them. For the sake of the country give up. The talent in the Labour party is in the centre.

Worst case Long-Bailey or Rayner. Starmer or Nandy better. Best would be Cooper or Phillips. Jess Phillips in particular would be a bold choice, the anti-Johnson. But the membership probably hate her for having the temerity to question the great one.
I honestly think you are deluded that there is talent in the centre or that this would be a magic bullet to win.

Brown and Miliband got less of a percentage than corbyn got yesterday and neither were facing a brilliant opposition.

Personally I think the sitting on the fence on Brexit from the referendum onwards did labour a huge amount of harm, combined with the fact that Brexit unleashed horrible reactionary forces.
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  #117  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:47 AM
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Depressing response so far from the Corbyn gang. You had 4 years, there was some stuff that resonated, that can be taken forward. But move aside now. A lot of people supported Labour despite Corbyn. Time for Momentum to do the same, they have to support someone who isn't perfect for them. For the sake of the country give up. The talent in the Labour party is in the centre.

Worst case Long-Bailey or Rayner. Starmer or Nandy better. Best would be Cooper or Phillips. Jess Phillips in particular would be a bold choice, the anti-Johnson. But the membership probably hate her for having the temerity to question the great one.
No way Jess Phillips. Nandy would be my choice and you would have to give a senior position to Cooper.
David Miliband and Alan Johnson are total no goes for me.
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  #118  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:47 AM
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The best politician in terms of being a role model, swimming upstream against the normal political trends whilst also being a fantastic speaker that the country has IMO, is currently Caroline Lucas of Green Party, Brighton. Some of the candidates rumoured for Leadership of the Labour Party in comparison shows how far away the Labour party currently is from its voters
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  #119  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:52 AM
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Your “alternative” gave us years of Thatcher. And will now give us a decade of the most right wing Tory government since.

How about winning power and then making the arguments about what will benefit the working class, rather than choosing vastly unpopular leaders the public hates and gifting the conservatives election wins?

It’s not like there weren’t tons of people warning this would happen. Just look at the early pages of the Corbyn thread. Everyone warning he was a disaster was right. Warning that people couldn’t afford the hard left indulging itself. Yet Labour members knew better and elected Corbyn twice.

And this morning we hear from so many that they’ve no regrets. Amazing.
Let's face it, the only Labour leader who has won an election in the last 43 years is Blair. Despite his simpering & smarmy exterior, he was quite a shrewd operator, ably abetted by two arch-pragmatists (to put it kindly) in Alistair Campbell and Peter Mandleson, who controlled the party quite ruthlessly..

Speaking from the outside of the party (and apologies is some if you take this badly, given the sensitivity of this morning), it seems to be that Labour Party members check their brains in when arriving at their party conferences to choose new leaders since then. Anyone who thought that Gordon Brown, Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn would appeal to the wider electorate was mad. The Tory party has not been well-run for the last decade, and Brexit was an absolute gift to an effective opposition party, and yet Labour has not only failed to take advantage of this, it has gone progressively backwards in the polls.

As an outsider, I think the person I have feared the most as a potential leader in that period was Chukka Umunna - although he has subsequently utterly cooked his reputation. I think Keir Starmer is also hopelessly damaged - mainly because although he is an effective communicator, he has been the face of a hopelessly fractured Brexit policy, and has looked a complete idiot at times in trying to articulate it without having a firm view. Rebecca Long-Bailey could be good, but is she too tainted by the Corbyn/MacDonald association ? Jess Phillips is a good communicator, but gives off the impression that it is all about her (an accusation one could also note that Boris has managed to step over, I suppose).

However - and I'm not really saying anything new here, I guess, but thought the perspective of an outsider might be useful - the real problem is Jon Lansman and Len McClusky operating behind the scenes. Whilst in Labour echo chambers, Momentum may seem to be an unstoppable force (and they also have their ruthless side), they are poison to a large part of the wider electorate, and a gift to the right-wing media. How the Labour Party deals with them is the bigger issue here, for me.

I'm not sure of the answer, but suspect that it isn't a breakaway group - even if a charismatic leader for it could be found. TIG, Change UK and even the Liberals show that there is very little appetite in the wider British electorate for breakaway groups - and pursuing a Remain argument is really no major vote winner (and too late, for the foreseeable future).

I think an effective opposition is important for British politics and government - but unless it can capture the imagination of the British public, which they have palpably failed to do, Labour will make no progress, so it needs to have a big look at its internal processes for choosing an effective leader. At the moment, only the SNP can claim to be an effective opposition - and that is despite (but, I suppose, credit to) Nicola Sturgeon and Ian Blackford, much as I loath and disagree with them.

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  #120  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
I honestly think you are deluded that there is talent in the centre or that this would be a magic bullet to win.

Brown and Miliband got less of a percentage than corbyn got yesterday and neither were facing a brilliant opposition.

Personally I think the sitting on the fence on Brexit from the referendum onwards did labour a huge amount of harm, combined with the fact that Brexit unleashed horrible reactionary forces.
Mate, I am deluded? It was the worst Labour performance in almost 100 years. You're like a manager coming on after a 5-0 defeat, saying "look at our shots on target compared to the last match where we only lost 2-0".

Percentage of the vote. What a giggle. The collapse of the Lib Dems from 2015 should have been a gift to Labour but you went and picked the worst man for the job. It's ok, you liked him, it didn't work out. The country needs to get rid of the Tories and so the Labour party needs to change.
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