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View Poll Results: Who do you want as Labour leader?
Rebecca Long Bailey 31 8.24%
Angela Rayner 23 6.12%
Jess Phillips 95 25.27%
Keir Starmer 140 37.23%
Emily Thornberry 23 6.12%
Other (name them in thread) 64 17.02%
Voters: 376. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:55 AM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by Poosence View Post
Mate, I am deluded? It was the worst Labour performance in almost 100 years. You're like a manager coming on after a 5-0 defeat, saying "look at our shots on target compared to the last match where we only lost 2-0".

Percentage of the vote. What a giggle. The collapse of the Lib Dems from 2015 should have been a gift to Labour but you went and picked the worst man for the job. It's ok, you liked him, it didn't work out. The country needs to get rid of the Tories and so the Labour party needs to change.
There are lots of issues but Iím saying if you think a centrist labour leader would have done better I think youíre wrong.
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  #122  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
There are lots of issues but Iím saying if you think a centrist labour leader would have done better I think youíre wrong.
How the ******* **** would they have done worse?
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  #123  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by nicky View Post
PPP is a load of shite but its basically a purchasing strategy mistake.
also try thinking of any big sucesses he actually had. I can't think of any.
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  #124  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
So has Keir Starmer. I just don't think where you're born or whether you have a cock or not should come into it.
Would be a good choice but a London based MP.
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  #125  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:57 AM
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I think that Labour need to look towards a more center-left candidate, or if they're going to sit on the same left wing position as Corbyn, maybe a younger candidate who isn't so tainted by associations (IRA etc) and they need to make a big show of stamping down on anti-semitism. Possibly with some northern connection or non-london basis.

Come the next election, Brexit won't exist to be devisive, and if Labour can put up a relatively clean candidate, even with a left wing manifesto, they should recover - Especially you'd imagine on the back of the impact of Brexit and five years of a conservative government with a solid majority.

Of course, thats all dependent on the Conservatives being Conservatives, its worth remembering that typically Johnson has until the Brexit referendum, generally sat on the more liberal spectrum of the Tory party.

I just now hope that the Brexiteers were right on Brexit, its effects and impacts, and I was wrong.
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  #126  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:58 AM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky View Post
How the ******* **** would they have done worse?
Both Brown and Miliband got less percentage of the vote.
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  #127  
Old 13-12-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I think that Labour need to look towards a more center-left candidate, or if they're going to sit on the same left wing position as Corbyn, maybe a younger candidate who isn't so tainted by associations (IRA etc) and they need to make a big show of stamping down on anti-semitism. Possibly with some northern connection or non-london basis.

Come the next election, Brexit won't exist to be devisive, and if Labour can put up a relatively clean candidate, even with a left wing manifesto, they should recover - Especially you'd imagine on the back of the impact of Brexit and five years of a conservative government with a solid majority.

Of course, thats all dependent on the Conservatives being Conservatives, its worth remembering that typically Johnson has until the Brexit referendum, generally sat on the more liberal spectrum of the Tory party.

I just now hope that the Brexiteers were right on Brexit, its effects and impacts, and I was wrong.
Johnson likes a big investment project. I suspect were are going to see a chunk of these in the new Tory seats.
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  #128  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Both Brown and Miliband got less percentage of the vote.
Youíre trying to compare vote shares across elections with entirely different circumstances.

If Labour has gone in with a simpler manifesto (yes that means less), a second referendum supporting remain, and a less toxic leader they would have done far far better.
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  #129  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Johnson likes a big investment project. I suspect were are going to see a chunk of these in the new Tory seats.
Boris Bridge
Boris Barrage
Boris Bonking house etc...
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  #130  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I just now hope that the Brexiteers were right on Brexit, its effects and impacts, and I was wrong.
Above all, this.
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  #131  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:05 AM
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Ultimately, does it really matter?

Social media, tv broadcasts etc are all earn money by scare-mongering, causing drama, anger and hatred. This sells, unfortunately.

This isn't going to change and ultimately younger generations will be fed more and more of the Cambridge Analytica campaigns influencing them. We have seen this work now better than ever (Trump, Brexit and to a lesser extent Boris now). All the while Labours policys attack the rich, combined with a seemingly outdated leader, they have no chance
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  #132  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:09 AM
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Labour faces a huge threat. Look at the four nations. Scotland is SNP now, they donít play in NI, Wales is getting weaker every election and in England they have around half the total MPs that the Tories have. To win back power they really only have English votes to play with and they have lost so many of their old strongholds to the altar of Brexit. Those previously solid northern labour voters believe in what many of us believe to be a unicorn of a brighter future outside the EU. More than anything they want a party that will say it understands and will fix their issues and lift them up in the world.

Corbyn Labour was clearly viewed by them as a representation of the political elite they voted to ditch in 2016. The next leader will have to win, in reality, 60-70 seats, just in England next time round. That is a huge ask and needs someone who can straddle the affluent south and the deprived north. Not easy to pick someone, but the model of Corbyn has not worked so has to change.
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  #133  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
Yes please. People who day he is a tory - not this current bunch he isn't.
You have to acknowledge that the Iraq War, apart from everything else bad about it, was, and still is, hugely divisive within the Labour Party.
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  #134  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:16 AM
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Percy Dalton came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPercy Dalton came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPercy Dalton came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPercy Dalton came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPercy Dalton came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPercy Dalton came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPercy Dalton came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPercy Dalton came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPercy Dalton came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPercy Dalton came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPercy Dalton came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
How would a support remain referendum have helped ? Most of the votes they lost were Labour Leave voters like myself. It may make no sense to many remainers but they have lost seats in the Labour heartlands it would have seemed impossible in past years. Yes of course the average Labour voters dislike/lack of trust for Corbyn was also a factor but too many underestimate the level of Leave supporters who vote Labour
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  #135  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Poosence View Post
Mate, I am deluded? It was the worst Labour performance in almost 100 years. You're like a manager coming on after a 5-0 defeat, saying "look at our shots on target compared to the last match where we only lost 2-0".

Percentage of the vote. What a giggle. The collapse of the Lib Dems from 2015 should have been a gift to Labour but you went and picked the worst man for the job. It's ok, you liked him, it didn't work out. The country needs to get rid of the Tories and so the Labour party needs to change.
You need Diane Abbott as your next leader, she has as much chance as anyone of leading Labour to win an election. The momentum faction sold out the hard core Labour voters. What many politicians fail the realise, the electorate don't like being treated as idiots and spun a load of promises, which most people knew they couldn't afford to deliver.
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  #136  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Aw!

Iím ok. Itís grim but what can you do.

I guess the tories will now have to own Brexit. Thatís not a lot of consolation though.

If labour picks a centrist leader Iíll hand in my membership and leave them to it. We shall see.

Starmer has always seemed a strange potential choice to me. A bit like Mr Bean, no charisma at all, less than corbyn. And nothing much to say in terms of inspiration.
You still don't get it do you? Traditional Labour voters electing Johnson as their leave vote was not respected by Corbyn? It is they that have handed Johnson a landlside.
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  #137  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
You have to acknowledge that the Iraq War, apart from everything else bad about it, was, and still is, hugely divisive within the Labour Party.
Sure - a very bad decision, but one that at the time virtually the entire government supported. Blair would never come back, but I would welcome someone like him with open arms.

He wins elections and that is what Labour need. As said earlier - Labour have a choice: stay as an angry, unelectable protest party, or become more central and thus electable. Option 2 is an absolute no-brainer, but will probably be harder to implement
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  #138  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:25 AM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Youíre trying to compare vote shares across elections with entirely different circumstances.

If Labour has gone in with a simpler manifesto (yes that means less), a second referendum supporting remain, and a less toxic leader they would have done far far better.
I think the damage from labours Brexit position was done long before this election.

But I donít think you are right on the above.

That wouldnít have won over any of the Tory vote.
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  #139  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:28 AM
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But I do feel for cockneyrebel today. If he lived down the road, I'd nip down there and buy him a pint or two.
Go round and see him. Make him smile.
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  #140  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
I think the damage from labours Brexit position was done long before this election.

But I donít think you are right on the above.

That wouldnít have won over any of the Tory vote.
There was something like 35% remain voters in the Tory vote that everyone seems to ignore.

But one thing both remain and Labour got wrong was bot coming out and acknowledging all the anger and all the reasons people voted leave (relevant to the EU or not) and attacked it with a plan of how it was going to be improved
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