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View Poll Results: Who do you want as Labour leader?
Rebecca Long Bailey 31 8.24%
Angela Rayner 23 6.12%
Jess Phillips 95 25.27%
Keir Starmer 140 37.23%
Emily Thornberry 23 6.12%
Other (name them in thread) 64 17.02%
Voters: 376. You may not vote on this poll

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  #141  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
There was something like 35% remain voters in the Tory vote that everyone seems to ignore.

But one thing both remain and Labour got wrong was bot coming out and acknowledging all the anger and all the reasons people voted leave (relevant to the EU or not) and attacked it with a plan of how it was going to be improved
Spot on.

There needed to be a radical Remain message. That never happened. The referendum campaign was an awful status quo bland one and then labour sat on the fence.

By 2019 election it was too late whatever they did.
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  #142  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
Sure - a very bad decision, but one that at the time virtually the entire government supported. Blair would never come back, but I would welcome someone like him with open arms.
(

These were the numbers for the Iraq War vote:

Aye
Labour Party (254), Conservative Party (146), Ulster Unionist Party (6), Democratic Unionist Party (5), Independent Conservative (1)
412 / 659

No
Labour Party (84), Liberal Democrats (52), Scottish National Party (5), Plaid Cymru (4), Conservative Party (2), Independent Community and Health Concern (1), Social Democratic and Labour Party (1)
149 / 659

Abstentions
Speaker of the House (1), Labour Party (69), Conservative Party (17), Sinn Féin (4), Social Democratic and Labour Party (2), Liberal Democrats (1)

To me that shows it divided the Labour Party and united the Tories. If the Labour party is going to get its house in order it has to somehow unite, and that has to be one of the things it talks its way through.

It was also massively divisive with the left generally - one of the reasons Corbyn is leader is because of his opposition the the war. I think every Labour voter I know marched against it. The party never again got near the number of MPs you can see there.
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  #143  
Old 13-12-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
There needed to be a radical Remain message. That never happened.
Just remind me how the Liberals, and their leader, did with that ?

"Bollocks to the Liberals", in the vernacular they encouraged us to use.
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  #144  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Just remind me how the Liberals, and their leader, did with that ?
.
They increased their share of the vote.
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  #145  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:11 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Just remind me how the Liberals, and their leader, did with that ?

"Bollocks to the Liberals", in the vernacular they encouraged us to use.
They had a status quo remain message.

Very very different from remain and push for radical change.
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  #146  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:11 PM
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Good article.

Food for thought for centrists as well as the left.
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  #147  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky View Post
How the ******* **** would they have done worse?
I suspect a strongly Blairite candidate would have done slightly worse. Either way, its splitting hairs. The problem for Labour isn't really about what went wrong per se, but what went wrong between 2017 and 2019 - That resulted in them losing so badly by comparison.

Labour kind of fail to understand that in their heartlands a large part of their base are socially somewhat more conservative, and somewhat nationalist, as well as left wing.

Labour will struggle with its support, whilst it 'ignores' that there is a large element of their general / traditional support, that is proud, British Working class. That working class, leftist nationalism, is often overlooked by Labour

The problem then with someone who could easily be associated with 'The IRA' and Anti-British tropes, hurt Labour - especially with the amplification that Brexit put on that (Whilst I agree with Labour stance as being the right one, its too complicated to be either Remain or Leave). Anti-Semitism hurt them, but fundamentally, they need a new leader.

Ideally someone who is Northern (or has strong Northern Links such as a long term North Seat MP), ideally Jewish and being Female wouldn't hurt.
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  #148  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I suspect a strongly Blairite candidate would have done slightly worse. Either way, its splitting hairs. The problem for Labour isn't really about what went wrong per se, but what went wrong between 2017 and 2019 - That resulted in them losing so badly by comparison.

Labour kind of fail to understand that in their heartlands a large part of their base are socially somewhat more conservative, and somewhat nationalist, as well as left wing.

Labour will struggle with its support, whilst it 'ignores' that there is a large element of their general / traditional support, that is proud, British Working class. That working class, leftist nationalism, is often overlooked by Labour

The problem then with someone who could easily be associated with 'The IRA' and Anti-British tropes, hurt Labour - especially with the amplification that Brexit put on that (Whilst I agree with Labour stance as being the right one, its too complicated to be either Remain or Leave). Anti-Semitism hurt them, but fundamentally, they need a new leader.

Ideally someone who is Northern (or has strong Northern Links such as a long term North Seat MP), ideally Jewish and being Female wouldn't hurt.
Luciana Berger fits that profile, shame they ran her out of the party?
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  #149  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
There are lots of issues but I’m saying if you think a centrist labour leader would have done better I think you’re wrong.
Really. You seem to have a determination not to learn anything.

While the Momentum party control the Labour Party they will remain on the hard left the policies will stay the same and the results will remain the same. Unlike the Militant Tendency I think it will be pretty much impossible to expel the Momentum party from Labour.
I think the next leader will also be a crank from the far left. Their leadership model is wrong they need someone the PLP can get behind and concentrate on offering what the electorate want.
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  #150  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
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Good article.

Food for thought for centrists as well as the left.
Here's one you should read: To view the link you have to Register or Login
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  #151  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
They increased their share of the vote.
Make any difference ?
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  #152  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
If it's solely about Corbyns popularity among the public, then why was there a big swing towards him two years ago - surely this would also have been seen then.
Doesn't fit the narrative on here so just gets ignored.
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  #153  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:38 PM
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It will be Long-Bailey or Rayner. Most likely Long-Bailey. Unfortunately in this age you need a leader who is good at everything, not just principled and has good policies, but someone who speaks well, is a good public speaker, is able to get their message across clearly, concisely and passionately. Whatever you think of Corbyn, he wasn't 'presidential' enough. His personality wasn't going to win over enough people who believed in some of his policies but not him. I'm not convinced RLB is the answer, but she's a better option than Starmer. The Labour Party has two good options in Rayner and RLB, and Rayner is slightly 'softer' than RLB. There's no reason for Labour to opt for a male, London MP over one of those two.

As an aside, this is a really good piece by Gary Younge on the Guardian's Comment Is Free

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Also a good piece by the excellent Jon Stone in the Indy To view the link you have to Register or Login

(Just realised the Gary Younge piece has already been posted)
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  #154  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Luciana Berger fits that profile, shame they ran her out of the party?
And then devoted resources into making sure she didn’t beat the Tory in Finchley. Corbyn’s wife campaigned there apparently.

Priorities.
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  #155  
Old 13-12-2019, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
It will be Long-Bailey ………………………..
Good to hear.

She's a non-starter to win an election her basic personality will turn people off.
Whatever she says it feels as though you're being told off as though you're a child. No thanks
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  #156  
Old 13-12-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
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Good article.

Food for thought for centrists as well as the left.
Thanks for sharing that CR - it's an excellent analysis.
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  #157  
Old 13-12-2019, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Luciana Berger fits that profile, shame they ran her out of the party?
A Jewish leader won't win a UK general election until all the baby boomers have died off.
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  #158  
Old 13-12-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Brett View Post
A Jewish leader won't win a UK general election until all the baby boomers have died off.
labour didn't spend it's time in office actively adding labour voters in order for the party to install a leader they will not vote for. The labour party don't want to add the london safe seats to the list of people deserting them.

A return to the centre ground is the only realistic option if they want to be competitive.
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  #159  
Old 13-12-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TAK View Post
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Yep ,spot on.
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  #160  
Old 13-12-2019, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett View Post
A Jewish leader won't win a UK general election until all the baby boomers have died off.
utter rubbish I am in the Baby Boomer category and would have certainly voted for her if she had become Labour Leader. Seems to me you have totally the wrong impression of baby boomers.
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