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  #12561  
Old 28-11-2023, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by west country boy View Post
I do not remember this (not doubting you of course). I assume it wasn't from the likes of the NYT or WaPo?
I think he allowed the trump ballon to be flown or something and that caused a lot of bad press and he was seen as a villain.
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  #12562  
Old 28-11-2023, 10:15 PM
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Oh yes - that was a bit embarrassing tbf though. Doesn’t stop Trump being a cee but we’re supposed to be better than those ghastly colonials what what? Especially the jock/hun ones.
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  #12563  
Old 28-11-2023, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
A colleague recently... went to the protests, said something pretty shitty about the Jews... seemed like he forgot where he was, and let the mask slip.

Jews warned us this shit was out there, lets be honest... we didn't think the problem was as bad as it is.
What did they say?
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  #12564  
Old 28-11-2023, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
Has none of you *really, honestly* been present when one of your friends, someone you thought you knew, or maybe someone you only know vaguely- but is very anti Israel and pro Palestinian- lets the mask slip and says something that makes you realise he really doesnít like jews?
Maybe Iíve just been really unlucky.
I hear plenty of anti-Zionism. Never any anti-Semitism though.
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  #12565  
Old 28-11-2023, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jcreedy View Post
I hear plenty of anti-Zionism. Never any anti-Semitism though.
I really don't know what Zionism or anti Zionism means. Is a Zionist just a jew we don't like?
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  #12566  
Old 28-11-2023, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
I really don't know what Zionism or anti Zionism means. Is a Zionist just a jew we don't like?


I did wonder as that is so pre world war 2
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  #12567  
Old 28-11-2023, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
I really don't know what Zionism or anti Zionism means. Is a Zionist just a jew we don't like?
This is sort of the point I have made a couple of times. Anti zionists are against Israel. But most Israelis are jews and around half the jews in the world live in Israel (and want to live there). I can therefore see why a distinction between anti zionism and anti semitism is pretty marginal to many jews, particularly those who live in Israel.
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  #12568  
Old 28-11-2023, 11:45 PM
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You are completely wrong/


I know that because I used to think the same and Friskey put me right. Israelis are not necessarily Zionists. I will leave this to him...
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  #12569  
Old 28-11-2023, 11:50 PM
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So another set of hostages have released tonight. Unfortunately the 10 month old baby is not one of them According to some reports he is being held by another militant group within Gaza.
Which highlights the issue I discussed last night the issue of Hamas and removal of Hamas will leave a void being field by yet another terrorist group.
It would also seem that the hostages are being held only to offer protection to terrorists a commodity to be traded for prisoners and protection from the IDF forces in Gaza. With reports that some hostages have been traded amognst the terror groups within Gaza.
For the ceasefire to hold negotiations will have to begin first regarding male civilians and then the military hostages in Gaza. With a higher price of Israeli held prisoners to be released no doubt. Which may also be the case regarding the high value they will place on the baby.
There is only a sense of despair.
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  #12570  
Old 29-11-2023, 12:22 AM
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Anyone who talks about a "two-state solution" now is either completely ignorant of the reality of the situation or is basically lying through their teeth. It's been completely destroyed by the last 20-25 years of Israeli policy.

Which means the options now are either rinse and repeat what's happened for the last 25 years, the full genocide, or some kind of one-state peace. I can't see the latter as a political reality - although the far left (tiny, and unimportant) in Israel seem to be advocating for it.

The prospects don't look good to me.
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  #12571  
Old 29-11-2023, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
You are completely wrong/


I know that because I used to think the same and Friskey put me right. Israelis are not necessarily Zionists. I will leave this to him...
Will wait for the explanation. On the same basis (most israelis are jewish and half jews live in israel) does this also cover the anti isreal v anti jew distinction?
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  #12572  
Old 29-11-2023, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clapham Rover View Post
Anyone who talks about a "two-state solution" now is either completely ignorant of the reality of the situation or is basically lying through their teeth. It's been completely destroyed by the last 20-25 years of Israeli policy.

Which means the options now are either rinse and repeat what's happened for the last 25 years, the full genocide, or some kind of one-state peace. I can't see the latter as a political reality - although the far left (tiny, and unimportant) in Israel seem to be advocating for it.

The prospects don't look good to me.
another problem is that the Palestinians dont seem to want a 2 state solution either. I think this is the most recent poll, which shows only 24% of Palestinians seem to want one (not just a Biden led one). Its really hard to be optimistic of any solution.

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  #12573  
Old 29-11-2023, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Philipw View Post
This is sort of the point I have made a couple of times. Anti zionists are against Israel. But most Israelis are jews and around half the jews in the world live in Israel (and want to live there). I can therefore see why a distinction between anti zionism and anti semitism is pretty marginal to many jews, particularly those who live in Israel.
But many Jews completely reject the concept of Zionism, and/or the idea of literal God-given right to the land on which Israel was created.

This is one reason why the anti-Semitism accusations that are lazily aimed at those not willing to blindly accept Zionism are frustrating.

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  #12574  
Old 29-11-2023, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
You are completely wrong/


I know that because I used to think the same and Friskey put me right. Israelis are not necessarily Zionists. I will leave this to him...
I donít want to get into the Zionism chat again!

10 years has passed and the word has got even more confused. I do think itís used as short hand now by some on the left in this country to mean anti-Jew. I think itís hard to argue against that. Many people use it without even knowing what it means. Plus, as Iím sure youíll remember, it has many different strands.

When we had that chat people like Klinks were still using Nazi terminology to describe Israel so times have moved on. Being anti-Zionist was used as shorthand for being anti Israel aggression almost. Which I could kind of accept. I donít think itís so clear anymore. I think the shorthand now, that many use it for, is for no Jewish state or to be anti-Semitic.

Iím a firm believer in a Jewish state because the world have shown throughout history that Jews are not safe as a minority. People who say theyíre anti-Zionistís never answer the question on where Israeli Jews should goÖ..
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  #12575  
Old 29-11-2023, 07:39 AM
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I People who say theyíre anti-Zionistís never answer the question on where Israeli Jews should goÖ..
Oh but they do

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what happened to the Madagascar idea? that wasn't a bad shout.
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  #12576  
Old 29-11-2023, 07:43 AM
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I see more jeering and whistling as the hostages were handed over yesterday. At least it was not as physically aggressive this time. The locals were out to cheer their Hamas hero’s again. Clearly a minority despite the latest polls suggesting that most Palestinians think the original attack from Hamas was a good idea.

I do agree with H that the work the Red Cross do on the ground is remarkable though. I wouldn’t want to be the one picking them up.

Some of the stories coming out from the hostages are horrific as expected. The weaponising of the 10 month old hostage is also a new low. He is clearly purposely being kept to last for a bigger exchange deal. This is what Hamas are. Making kids watch videos of their family and friends being killed and holding a baby back as a bargaining chip. If anything this pause has made me believe more than ever that Israel have no option but to remove them.
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  #12577  
Old 29-11-2023, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Friskey View Post
I see more jeering and whistling as the hostages were handed over yesterday. At least it was not as physically aggressive this time. The locals were out to cheer their Hamas heroís again. Clearly a minority despite the latest polls suggesting that most Palestinians think the original attack from Hamas was a good idea.

I do agree with H that the work the Red Cross do on the ground is remarkable though. I wouldnít want to be the one picking them up.

Some of the stories coming out from the hostages are horrific as expected. The weaponising of the 10 month old hostage is also a new low. He is clearly purposely being kept to last for a bigger exchange deal. This is what Hamas are. Making kids watch videos of their family and friends being killed and holding a baby back as a bargaining chip. If anything this pause has made me believe more than ever that Israel have no option but to remove them.
The Palestinians?
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  #12578  
Old 29-11-2023, 07:53 AM
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The Palestinians?
Behave yourself
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  #12579  
Old 29-11-2023, 07:56 AM
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The Palestinians?
Donít be stupid.
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  #12580  
Old 29-11-2023, 08:00 AM
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Behave yourself
Get over yourself FFS.

I asked merely for clarification. Friskey was talking about Israels political position on the matter, not his own opinion.
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